I love that Nimona not killing anybody worked because she's more of an agent of chaos than a killer. She talks it up and draws it out but ultimately, she's just wants to make some noise at the end of the same. Similarly, a lot of people railing on the system don't want to kill anybody in charge despite their justifiable rage. Rather they just want things to change.
@@IllisiaAdams I have no idea why it did with me. I'm really gay, but I'm also cis and a white guy. I look like the Midwestern middle aged guy that I am. Society l, largely, isn't coming for me. So why did that have such an impact?
@@CortexNewsService Society *could* come for anyone who stands out, with or without warning. That's why Nimona's so effective, right? Some of our differences and idiosyncrasies are more visible, some are more popular at any particular moment when it comes to choosing targets, but just about anyone is a potential "monster" to someone looking for one. And the only way out is for the different kinds of "monster" to take the approach to that game that Nimona takes to the Monopoly board.
My condolences ❤ I’m particularly interested in fl’s politics cause it was considered “purple” in 2020, If I may ask, do you see the hate desantis is getting as means to “flip the state” back? Or does it seem more like a fascist power vacuum?
@@bakedpotato1717 I feel like it's a little bit of both. There's probably a combination of people being disillusioned with what they thought they were getting the last time around, people not voting because they don't think it matters, and (honestly the biggest thing, tbh) abismal voting turnout during local govt elections and midterms. I think the country would be very different if we did like Australia and you had to either opt out of voting or pay a fine for not voting or forgetting to opt out. But in the US, the govt chooses who they do and don't want to vote, so.
At its very heart, the story is about ... adaptation. How apropos! One final though: "monster" is just a label. Even "monsters" can be loved; "monsters" are just beings that are misunderstood.
At my new job the little kids were being read “Big Green” monster, where the text is yelling at the title character for a list of physical traits, and I’m just sitting there thinking “Man, this book is fucked up! What did the monster DO?!” I’ve heard that the book is supposed to be a way to help kids confront basic fears of things that don’t have to scare them; however, with the tone of the book and certain emphasized traits like a BIG green nose and SCRAGGLY purple hair, I also have wondered “Did some racism leak through in this text?”
One of my favorite things about this movie, and I think what to me is indicative of really good art is being able to help me understand emotions coming from a perspective I have never lived or experienced. As a cis person, I don't personally relate to the feeling of your gender expression and identity never being acceptable and in some cases being feared by others. I have learned about it through education, but this was so visceral. Especially during the climax, Nimona's pain was so real and loud and heartbreaking, and it gave me so much deeper of a sense of empathy for people who might experience that pain. 💛💛💛
I want to echo the sentiment that if someone didn't read the comic or watch the movie, that they should do BOTH. They're both excellent and worth checking out, but they're also going to resonate slightly differently for different people, and everyone should experience that. You mentioned for instance not crying at the end of the graphic novel - well, I definitely did. Sobbed, in fact. Not only that, but I couldn't stop thinking about the scene where Nimona says that she knew Ballister couldn't love her once he realized 'how bad she was' to this very day. My experience with Nate Stevenson's work in general is that it always feels incredibly personal, but Nimona in particular hit me in a way and on a spot at a time when I needed it like few works of media ever did in my lifetime, and it's always going to hold a very special place in my heart - not in spite of its rawness, but because of it. In contrast, the movie feels like it takes a more introspective approach, and as you said, it's much more aware of its themes and ideas, and can point to the more systemic issues around those aspects. Because of that, I'm incredibly grateful that it exists alongside the novel, even if the movie in and of itself didn't burrow itself quite as deeply into my mind and psyche as the graphic novel. Honestly, it's not just a case where both versions of the story are good, but where one only really enhances the other and vice versa. 🐬🐉🦧
Full agreement- like Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio, this feels like something that was made with love. In both cases, the changes work for what they want to do and both have added layers on top of being a great 'kid's film'. I feel people overdo the "it's not in..." argument because then you get versions like Zak Snyder's Watchmen, which recreate the story but (in my view) miss the heart.
This is exactly why I'm not a purist about creative works. Adaptations by necessity have to change when moving from one medium to another-- how the story is told at a base level is a function of the medium it's being told in, and things that work in one may not work in another. Also, stories are products of their time and environment; a film retelling of an ancient myth is going to mean something different to the people making it and to the audience seeing it than it likely would have back in its ancient origins because the cultural contexts are going to be different. That doesn't mean that the fundamental ideas don't carry through if it's speaking to some intrinsic part of human existence, like family bonds or grief or what have you-- if it's a story we're still re-telling after so long, there's got to be something in there that still resonates with us today. But there probably will be things from the original that get lost in translation because our concept of it is non-existent or profoundly different now, like the basic idea of what a hero is or what's considered honorable or other basic social norms of the time that are no longer norms today. Adapting the works of a younger person after time has passed and they're no longer exactly who they were when they created it, it's not as profound of a change, but it's a microcosm of the same idea. The person in question has changed and may have a different context for for who they were when they wrote it, the cultural circumstances may have changed from the time in which the original was created, etc. I do think there's a lot of value in going back to the original source material and taking it for what it is, and trying to understand the time and place in which is was created. I also think that adaptations that take the bits that resonate in the current cultural context and shaping that retelling around the ideas they want to talk about in a way their audience is more likely to understand has tremendous value.
Personally I think preserving the heart, core message, meaning of the story is the most important thing, and I also think that when that fails people aren't always able to point to what failed exactly. So they point to details. Lord of the Rings for example leaves out a lot, they shift around things, they change characters, etc etc, and yet, it's almost universally beloved as an adaptation. Because they kept the core of the story, about hope, about sacrifice, about going on even when you don't know you'll succeed or even survive. I could point to so many things that are different from the book, but I don't feel the need to because they kept to the main point of the story. Movies like The Last Airbender by contrast, failed to grasp the heart of the story, and so people point (rightfully in many cases imo) to things like the silly earthbending, or the mispronunciations of the names, or the weird choices characters make that don't make sense etc. For me the one change that exemplifies the missed point is the final battle in the film, Aang bends a giant wave and crushes the Fire Nation's fleet. In the show he doesn't do that, he is more or less merged with the Ocean Spirit who becomes a giant water Kaiju and they bend the wave, and Aang, the pacifist who really really struggles with the idea he has to kill someone wasn't really involved in that whole battle. But in the movie he suddenly drowns a whole fleet without any kind of introspection at all. The show is about Aang not wanting to be the avatar, in part because it's too big of a responsibility for a child, but also because he doesn't want to give up his individuality and his morals even when his role and duty seem to demand he does, and the movie just kind of ignores that whole thing. They have Aang say he doesn't want to be the avatar, but they don't actually have him struggle with his morals (and the teachings of his now extinct culture, which he feels responsible to keep and remember) and what he thinks (and what people tell him) is his duty. And him accepting his duty while also preserving his morals is kind of the whole climax of the story.
It doesn't happen often that my son joins me in watching your videos, but his love for Nimona wins, this time. I think he really felt your "you're not a monster" at the end too.
This is a well-done video essay about Nimona. I loved the movie, in fact I could even argue that the themes of the movie transcend past queer representations, but folks who are different from society and being shamed for it whether it be race, immigration status, and disability.
A fun way to reread the book is to listen to the audiobook. It has an amazing full voice cast and manages to insert some added exposition lines to help describe scenes in the audio-only medium that surprisingly work well
Nimona is my favorite movie adaptation of anything ever, and just one of my favorite works of art in general (counting the GN and movie as two halves of a whole work of art
Looking back, the movie feels a lot like the recent, and very successful, One Piece Live Action adaptation. Where the author gets to revisiting their earlier work and give it a touch up now that they've got much more writing experience under their belt. Some good and not so good changes but a good entry point for a wider audience and potentially newer fans. Now, I may be reaching but "I named her Nimona, for no particular reason." feels a lot like a WWI Vet turned Oxford Professor in the 1920's writing "In a hole in the ground, there lived a Hobbit." 8:30 counterpoint, Zangief. "Just because you are bad guy doesn't mean you are bad guy."
One of the things I particularly enjoyed about the movie (that I haven't heard mentioned by commentary channels) is how swiftness was portrayed. It's such a quick movie in terms of pacing, but also in terms of how the characters move, and I love that
YES YES YES TO ALL OF THIS. I screamed so freaking much during the movie because Nimona's my favourite graphic novel and I was weary the adaptation wouldn't be good but it absolutely blew me away and I treasure it immensely. You made some really great points, thank you for this video!
There is this neat little thing that happens when they did the Nimona very willing for murder in words but never actually doing it in her actions. It makes her action speak louder, like everyone says she's a monster and she leans into it and has her fun with it. But at the end of the day, she doesn't commits fully to it. I loved this movie so very much, just rewatched it last night and bawled my eyes over it. I planned to save up to get the graphic novel just so I can see the author's vision and how it grew, as well as the elements that the movie took that pulled at my heartstrings.
Thank you for the video, Vera! The aspect of including murder/killing in fiction needs a reason for it. Even if the responsible for the death(s) is legitimately evil, using the act as just an example of their malice is a very shallow and pointless motivation. Ironically, despite toning down the violence from the original webcomic in order to receive a lower age rating, the animated movie changing Ballister and the Director's motivations makes the conflict in it even more insiduous and relevant to the current state of our world. The system will not hesitate in vilify the ones it sees as misfits, especially who did represent a threat to its dominance, and it will do anything inside its power in order to keep the status quo. Revolutions never come to pass by people following rules and without true disruption of the system.
I’ve had this video one my watch later playlist for a long while now. Because of this video, I was encouraged to read the book, and both the book and the movie are absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for covering all of these different types of topics, I absolutely love these Queer themes and to see them thought out and purposeful really gives me hope for the world and brings me love and joy. Again, thank you so very much for everything. Stay safe and healthy, and May colors fill your life ❤🌈
I feel like the loyalty to the source material in Watchmen left a lot of people just not understanding the world. When the Overton Window has shifted so much you kind of have to contextualize it to something modern audiences understand.
Totally agree with you - details, specifics don't matter to me, the heart, the spirit is the most important to me, has always been. The only case when I start noticing the specifics is when the heart is not there. And yeah, I absolutely adore this movie❤
Haven't had the pleasure of reading the book/web comic. I didn't even know there was one. Your reaction to this work reminds me of my own pleasure at the adaptation of Ella Enchanted to the big screen. The original book is much more literary (e.g. there are long letters sent back and forth between characters). I feel the changes the movie made because of the change in medium made great sense and enhanced the joy of the book. I'll have to look for the Nimona book.
I think you've hit the nail on the head with what makes an adaptation work as an _adaptation._ There have been works in the past where I enjoyed both the book and the movie but just accept that they are different things (see "Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH" vs "The Secret of NIHM" or pretty much any movie adapted from a Philip K. Dick story). There have been adaptations that hew close to the source in plot and characters but fell flat because they missed the heart of the work (I put the Slaughterhouse-Five movie alongside The Watchmen in this category). Another recent work that - against all odds - got the heart of the adaptation right despite making significant plot changes was the live action One Piece. I think Nimona is a better example (both for your channel's audience and in terms of making _big_ changes), but considering both the track record of Western live action adaptations of manga and anime and that One Piece has a large, worldwide fanbase and sales numbers that rival the Boy Wizard who will not be named... it was quite an accomplishment.
The fact that One Piece has sold more books than the boy wizard franchise will always be funny given how much gender fuckery goes on in One Piece. A character that transes people's gender as a magical power. Bon Clay being a highly beloved character. A trans women uses the women's bath with the cis women and everyone's cool and natural about it. Even an evil enslaver respects his transmasc son's pronoun. Trans characters who don't pass still have their identities respected by their allies. How is a shonen manga giving better trans characters than 99% of western media?
@@ImpulsiveCreativity That's a good point. I've been watching the anime for the first time since shortly before the Netflix series dropped and have just gotten through Punk Hazard. As soon as Luffy reached level 5.5 of Impel Down I went in search of an analysis from a queer perspective. Unfortunately, I had to quickly stop watching the one video I found because it was clear it covered a lot of things that occur later in the series. While it was clearly coming from a place of supporting queer representation, there are elements that... puzzle me. The characters there and in the Kamabakka Kingdom are (barring Sanji) openly accepted, but the visual presentation of most of the... trans women? Crossdressers? (There's a bit of vagueness as to where most of these characters fall on either the sexuality or gender spectrums) Anyway, the art style always seems to go out of its way to make it clear that these are _not_ cis women. I'm not sure if it's a Japanese cultural thing I'm not aware of, or even if the queer community at large embraces it, but from my perspective it often feels like the _text_ is embracing queerness while the art style is othering it, leading to very mixed signals. Between that and Ivankov using their powers early in the arc to change the genders of two characters without their consent... yeah, there's a reason I wanted to get some second opinions on how to view the representation in One Piece.
@@Pooglian Oh wow I'm impressed how far into the series you are from having started just a few weeks ago! I have similar feelings about the Impel Down and Kamabakka. That stuff was written in the mid 2000s, though. The okama characters are, from what Japanese people have told me, based on the Okama stereotype which was the only openly queer people on TV for a while in Japan. They don't seem to represent gay men or trans women but are their own thing in the eyes of cishet people who aren't aware of the differences between queer identities. Some people think they are men who are women at heart, and some think they are just all queer men. But Okama was also a slur used against trans people and queer men. Bon Clay and Iva seem to have reclaimed or embraced this and are living freely. A major theme in One Piece is freedom so living freely your identity and expression and making being an okama a powerful free way of life is an interesting take on it. It's clearly meant for them to be 'good guys' as they're opposing the corrupt government and helped make Sanji stronger despite everything. It seems like Oda means well. I don't think he'd make Iva and Bon Clay allies to Luffy and Dragon if he had ill intentions towards gender queer people. The later stuff that I won't spoil is better in terms of representation. There are still non-passing trans characters but they are treated well by their allies. Sanji even makes heart eyes at a trans women though she is very feminine in appearance. We haven't seen the Okamas in a long time, though we do see Iva from time to time as part of the revolutionary army. Also since you're an anime watcher you might not know that Bon Clay is still alive and has taken up Iva's previous role in Impel Down.
Thank you for bringing Nimona to my attention Vera. I had never heard of it before you did your review of the film and it instantly became my favourite film of the decade!
Finally got the chance to read the book, and wow, was it great :D and for once, I really do want to watch the movie too - as you say, they really seem to have made all the right choices, and while changing things preserved or even enhanced the essence of the work :) now that's a good way to adapt something for sure :)! Thank you for this
I have a read that I love that you gave me after mentioning the mix of the ancient with the knights and the modern with the smartphones and pizza of how depending on your perspective, either one can seem out of place. The difference is if you see the past as outdated, or the future as ill-fitting, and ultimately we see that progress and the future is what helps us _all_ win. The reveal of the corruption with the confession video, the twisting of the truth from the desperate, corrupt monarchy using those tools whilst simultaneously having the people see the _truth_ about Nimona with the help of technology, broadcasting her pain and her vulnerability and innocence to the world. I hope people who started watching this film seeing the phones as an odd inclusion ended with the relief of the outdated, corrupt system being torn apart.
Made an effort to finally watch Nimona before this video and...I'm still wiping the tears from my face but I just can't help but adore the heart-shaped anarchist symbol at the end
Great video! I read the graphic novel a loooong time ago, so the film is fresher in my mind. But I have fond memories of them both. I really like how adaptions have the potential to be a continuation of the creator's work just like a sequel - in the sense that it gives them a chance to remake their world with new eyes, backed by their new experiences and knowledge :)
This so much. I do "feel" more with the movie than I do with the comics. Maybe because I don't relate ? The comics generally seems more "confused" (not in a bad way but because you can see that Nate Stevenson was working through stuff) and I cannot relate to that feeling. I can feel for the people who do feel it but I can't feel it with them. And that's very much how I experienced the comics both the first time I read it (a gift from someone who knew I loved She Ra almost a year to the day before the movie came out XD) and when I reread it after watching the movie. But the movie is much more relatable, not because my experience is anywhere near close to the characters (I come from a privileged background but the person who raised me didn't), but Nimona's anger and pain are so universal and the way she still gets to be happy with a loving found family with its own journey to acceptance is just....all the right buttons to make me emote tbh. Because this, I get. As for adaptations, I think there are different ways to go to make a good one. You can focus on the themes, you can focus on the characters, you can focus on the atmosphere, you can focus on the worldbuilding. There's a fine line between adaptation and inspiration. Like the How to Train Your Dragon trilogy is more inspired by the books than an actual adaptation and it failed the second they tried to integrate actual parts of the books because it didn't fit. Because all four points were different from the books. Whether an adaptation tries to be similar or go into a different direction is of no importance to me tbh. faithfulness is nice when you want to see the story through a different media lens (like wanting to see fight scenes go from the pages to the screen, or generally any kind of performance like music or danse or magic tricks) and sometimes it's cool if you don't have access to the original, other times the differences are highly appreciated because it just enhances your experience. And there are times where you're just along for the ride. As far as I'm concerned a good adaptation needs to keep at least two of the four points to work out. and of those two you need at least one to be, at its core, the same as the original. ie, for Nimona the core is, as you said, the themes while the Characters are also still mostly there and their changes are linked to the the other three points' changes. I haven't watched Sandman yet so I can't comment on it but while I'm not through with the One Piece Live Action series I have seen a few episodes and find it to be a relatively good adaptation. which is fascinating considering the kind of world we're working with here. The characters have changed but only in so far as the world has changed (so far the main changes are the cook being british instead of french and the swords guy being a bit less of a dumbass). Can't really talk about the themes yet but so far at least the found family and freedom bits seem to have been kept which are pretty important, The worldbuilding was tamed to fit a TV show but is still respected and they tried to find a balance between the over-exageration of the manga and what a tv show can do and seem to have kept it relatively consistent. Overall it actually managed to hit all four points and it's highly enjoyable while Nimona was such a great experience because I got something new out of it. The Ace Attorney movie in 2012 was pretty good too (the only part I was sad about was that Maya was way too gloomy but she did just lose her sister/guardian so, fair). The play on the world building was great, some things unexplained in the game get an underwhelming explanation which makes it oh so more great (the confetti), while others are just a nice touch (the evidence presentation). They kept the overall story and themes (criticism of the japanese justice system by showing how ridiculous it is), the characters, the atmosphere and honestly to this day it is one of the adaptations I have enjoyed the most in my life.
13:49 So funny anectdote about that: I started making up stories in like elementary school. The oldest story I can remember was about Woolly the sheep, a rainbow sheep who didnt fit in with the herd, left and found a herd of rainbow sheep he could belong to. I was like 7 or 8, I didnt even know what "queer" was - I wasnt even aware of the rainbow flag or gay people existing and yet it couldnt be more obvious looking back at it (+ Im also neurodivergent so thats a double-whammy of not fitting in).
Looks like I will have an energetic discussion with my daughter about which of us gets to gift the book to my transmasc son... This is an intesely positive "problem" BTW. ❤ (heart)
I read the book and re watch the movie today, the book is fantastic and the movie is the best movie of the year. Adaptations not being 100% accurate does not make them bad adaptations.
I just watched it a few weeks ago. I remember you and Jessie Gender talking about it. It was quite good. I will try to get the book. It was so good and excellent video
i mean its undertandable, the viain helps making it work as movie while making clear that isnt really the villain, thats the feels and very much is the real thing. The director is just good to focus ad create that . and make goldenloin shine too. And its probably good heee did the self villainiation focused on nemona. Cause original nemona sounds like a drama. and pain. and this , a happy end is a good choice. As much as ilike good dramas. Through people can always read the webcomic i guess.
I hope that when the Babylon 5 remake comes out it is similarly the same but different and enjoyable in the way that both the book and film of Nimona are both good but different. If that makes sense. Just the retelling of a story made me think of that. JMS is so much more mature now. I know the older I get the more emotional intelligence I grow into. I'm still pretty stupid, but I'm improving. Like hopefully all of us. I appreciate that things don't have to be a shot for shot redo. Just saying, this take on adaptation gives me hope. I love the faithfulness of The Sandman, but I know they are going to make changes, I think they are going to merge Wanda and Ruby into one character from what I heard, but it can work and it should be fine as long as we still get the emotional payoff of both characters' deaths rolled into one somehow. I really Really hope they keep the scene with Barbie changing Wanda's headstone to her real name over top of her dead name, that was beautiful to me.
I completely agree that the heart and themes of Nimona are preserved by the film. I do also feel Nimona is *missing* something. In my opinion it sacrifices the grays of the world for sharp distinctions (like making ambrosius unambiguously good instead of a bully at first, changing ballister from blackheart to boldheart. I really loved the deleted scene of Nimona trying to be accepted by animals before people) in order to make it "easier" to follow. I think it's weaker for it. It has a very straightforward moral and therefore pretty limited rewatch enjoyment. Nimona is a huge step forward (like Korrasami) and I hope paves the way for *more*. I think I just don't like that the teen/tween/young adult webcomic was aged down for the movie.
I saw another video that spoke about Changelings in other Mediums being aliens/commies and then later immigrants/refuges and in this masculine trans depiction the Alien depiction is seen more as a good natured punk rock uneasiness that you might find in characters like Hobie Brown in Across the Spiderverse. It's a positive depiction of someone that's hard to place who for many there could be a ton of friction in getting to know.
I know Nimona is a story about queerness, but as a not-very-queer person who's on the autistic spectrum I've felt so many of the same things queer people sympathise with in this story. This otherness, the way society makes you want to wear a mask, and how amazing it feels to be able to actually be your weird self are just a few of the themes
I love that Nimona not killing anybody worked because she's more of an agent of chaos than a killer. She talks it up and draws it out but ultimately, she's just wants to make some noise at the end of the same.
Similarly, a lot of people railing on the system don't want to kill anybody in charge despite their justifiable rage. Rather they just want things to change.
For some reason, you saying "you are not a monster" at the end made me tear up.
I felt that, too 😢❤
@@IllisiaAdams I have no idea why it did with me. I'm really gay, but I'm also cis and a white guy. I look like the Midwestern middle aged guy that I am. Society l, largely, isn't coming for me. So why did that have such an impact?
@@CortexNewsService Society *could* come for anyone who stands out, with or without warning. That's why Nimona's so effective, right? Some of our differences and idiosyncrasies are more visible, some are more popular at any particular moment when it comes to choosing targets, but just about anyone is a potential "monster" to someone looking for one. And the only way out is for the different kinds of "monster" to take the approach to that game that Nimona takes to the Monopoly board.
Same.
Love how when people think about states banning books, Florida is always the first state that comes up. God, it's depressing to live here!
My condolences ❤
I’m particularly interested in fl’s politics cause it was considered “purple” in 2020,
If I may ask, do you see the hate desantis is getting as means to “flip the state” back? Or does it seem more like a fascist power vacuum?
@@bakedpotato1717 I also live in Florida and I would say the second one
Thank you for staying anyway and helping keep the state from being *completely* repulsive!
@@bakedpotato1717 I feel like it's a little bit of both. There's probably a combination of people being disillusioned with what they thought they were getting the last time around, people not voting because they don't think it matters, and (honestly the biggest thing, tbh) abismal voting turnout during local govt elections and midterms. I think the country would be very different if we did like Australia and you had to either opt out of voting or pay a fine for not voting or forgetting to opt out. But in the US, the govt chooses who they do and don't want to vote, so.
I found Nimona when it was still being published online, then I lost track of it. I'm so glad it was finished, and I love both versions.
At its very heart, the story is about ... adaptation. How apropos!
One final though: "monster" is just a label. Even "monsters" can be loved; "monsters" are just beings that are misunderstood.
At my new job the little kids were being read “Big Green” monster, where the text is yelling at the title character for a list of physical traits, and I’m just sitting there thinking “Man, this book is fucked up! What did the monster DO?!” I’ve heard that the book is supposed to be a way to help kids confront basic fears of things that don’t have to scare them; however, with the tone of the book and certain emphasized traits like a BIG green nose and SCRAGGLY purple hair, I also have wondered “Did some racism leak through in this text?”
One of my favorite things about this movie, and I think what to me is indicative of really good art is being able to help me understand emotions coming from a perspective I have never lived or experienced. As a cis person, I don't personally relate to the feeling of your gender expression and identity never being acceptable and in some cases being feared by others. I have learned about it through education, but this was so visceral. Especially during the climax, Nimona's pain was so real and loud and heartbreaking, and it gave me so much deeper of a sense of empathy for people who might experience that pain. 💛💛💛
this. This is the true power of Nimona film
I want to echo the sentiment that if someone didn't read the comic or watch the movie, that they should do BOTH. They're both excellent and worth checking out, but they're also going to resonate slightly differently for different people, and everyone should experience that.
You mentioned for instance not crying at the end of the graphic novel - well, I definitely did. Sobbed, in fact. Not only that, but I couldn't stop thinking about the scene where Nimona says that she knew Ballister couldn't love her once he realized 'how bad she was' to this very day. My experience with Nate Stevenson's work in general is that it always feels incredibly personal, but Nimona in particular hit me in a way and on a spot at a time when I needed it like few works of media ever did in my lifetime, and it's always going to hold a very special place in my heart - not in spite of its rawness, but because of it.
In contrast, the movie feels like it takes a more introspective approach, and as you said, it's much more aware of its themes and ideas, and can point to the more systemic issues around those aspects. Because of that, I'm incredibly grateful that it exists alongside the novel, even if the movie in and of itself didn't burrow itself quite as deeply into my mind and psyche as the graphic novel. Honestly, it's not just a case where both versions of the story are good, but where one only really enhances the other and vice versa. 🐬🐉🦧
Full agreement- like Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio, this feels like something that was made with love. In both cases, the changes work for what they want to do and both have added layers on top of being a great 'kid's film'. I feel people overdo the "it's not in..." argument because then you get versions like Zak Snyder's Watchmen, which recreate the story but (in my view) miss the heart.
This is exactly why I'm not a purist about creative works. Adaptations by necessity have to change when moving from one medium to another-- how the story is told at a base level is a function of the medium it's being told in, and things that work in one may not work in another. Also, stories are products of their time and environment; a film retelling of an ancient myth is going to mean something different to the people making it and to the audience seeing it than it likely would have back in its ancient origins because the cultural contexts are going to be different. That doesn't mean that the fundamental ideas don't carry through if it's speaking to some intrinsic part of human existence, like family bonds or grief or what have you-- if it's a story we're still re-telling after so long, there's got to be something in there that still resonates with us today. But there probably will be things from the original that get lost in translation because our concept of it is non-existent or profoundly different now, like the basic idea of what a hero is or what's considered honorable or other basic social norms of the time that are no longer norms today. Adapting the works of a younger person after time has passed and they're no longer exactly who they were when they created it, it's not as profound of a change, but it's a microcosm of the same idea. The person in question has changed and may have a different context for for who they were when they wrote it, the cultural circumstances may have changed from the time in which the original was created, etc.
I do think there's a lot of value in going back to the original source material and taking it for what it is, and trying to understand the time and place in which is was created. I also think that adaptations that take the bits that resonate in the current cultural context and shaping that retelling around the ideas they want to talk about in a way their audience is more likely to understand has tremendous value.
Personally I think preserving the heart, core message, meaning of the story is the most important thing, and I also think that when that fails people aren't always able to point to what failed exactly. So they point to details.
Lord of the Rings for example leaves out a lot, they shift around things, they change characters, etc etc, and yet, it's almost universally beloved as an adaptation.
Because they kept the core of the story, about hope, about sacrifice, about going on even when you don't know you'll succeed or even survive. I could point to so many things that are different from the book, but I don't feel the need to because they kept to the main point of the story.
Movies like The Last Airbender by contrast, failed to grasp the heart of the story, and so people point (rightfully in many cases imo) to things like the silly earthbending, or the mispronunciations of the names, or the weird choices characters make that don't make sense etc.
For me the one change that exemplifies the missed point is the final battle in the film, Aang bends a giant wave and crushes the Fire Nation's fleet. In the show he doesn't do that, he is more or less merged with the Ocean Spirit who becomes a giant water Kaiju and they bend the wave, and Aang, the pacifist who really really struggles with the idea he has to kill someone wasn't really involved in that whole battle. But in the movie he suddenly drowns a whole fleet without any kind of introspection at all.
The show is about Aang not wanting to be the avatar, in part because it's too big of a responsibility for a child, but also because he doesn't want to give up his individuality and his morals even when his role and duty seem to demand he does, and the movie just kind of ignores that whole thing. They have Aang say he doesn't want to be the avatar, but they don't actually have him struggle with his morals (and the teachings of his now extinct culture, which he feels responsible to keep and remember) and what he thinks (and what people tell him) is his duty. And him accepting his duty while also preserving his morals is kind of the whole climax of the story.
It doesn't happen often that my son joins me in watching your videos, but his love for Nimona wins, this time.
I think he really felt your "you're not a monster" at the end too.
This is a well-done video essay about Nimona. I loved the movie, in fact I could even argue that the themes of the movie transcend past queer representations, but folks who are different from society and being shamed for it whether it be race, immigration status, and disability.
A fun way to reread the book is to listen to the audiobook. It has an amazing full voice cast and manages to insert some added exposition lines to help describe scenes in the audio-only medium that surprisingly work well
Nimona is my favorite movie adaptation of anything ever, and just one of my favorite works of art in general (counting the GN and movie as two halves of a whole work of art
"You are not a monster"
Thank you. I needed to hear that tonight.
Looking back, the movie feels a lot like the recent, and very successful, One Piece Live Action adaptation. Where the author gets to revisiting their earlier work and give it a touch up now that they've got much more writing experience under their belt. Some good and not so good changes but a good entry point for a wider audience and potentially newer fans.
Now, I may be reaching but "I named her Nimona, for no particular reason." feels a lot like a WWI Vet turned Oxford Professor in the 1920's writing "In a hole in the ground, there lived a Hobbit."
8:30 counterpoint, Zangief. "Just because you are bad guy doesn't mean you are bad guy."
One of the things I particularly enjoyed about the movie (that I haven't heard mentioned by commentary channels) is how swiftness was portrayed. It's such a quick movie in terms of pacing, but also in terms of how the characters move, and I love that
YES YES YES TO ALL OF THIS. I screamed so freaking much during the movie because Nimona's my favourite graphic novel and I was weary the adaptation wouldn't be good but it absolutely blew me away and I treasure it immensely. You made some really great points, thank you for this video!
There is this neat little thing that happens when they did the Nimona very willing for murder in words but never actually doing it in her actions. It makes her action speak louder, like everyone says she's a monster and she leans into it and has her fun with it. But at the end of the day, she doesn't commits fully to it.
I loved this movie so very much, just rewatched it last night and bawled my eyes over it. I planned to save up to get the graphic novel just so I can see the author's vision and how it grew, as well as the elements that the movie took that pulled at my heartstrings.
Thank you for the video, Vera!
The aspect of including murder/killing in fiction needs a reason for it. Even if the responsible for the death(s) is legitimately evil, using the act as just an example of their malice is a very shallow and pointless motivation.
Ironically, despite toning down the violence from the original webcomic in order to receive a lower age rating, the animated movie changing Ballister and the Director's motivations makes the conflict in it even more insiduous and relevant to the current state of our world. The system will not hesitate in vilify the ones it sees as misfits, especially who did represent a threat to its dominance, and it will do anything inside its power in order to keep the status quo. Revolutions never come to pass by people following rules and without true disruption of the system.
I’ve had this video one my watch later playlist for a long while now. Because of this video, I was encouraged to read the book, and both the book and the movie are absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for covering all of these different types of topics, I absolutely love these Queer themes and to see them thought out and purposeful really gives me hope for the world and brings me love and joy. Again, thank you so very much for everything. Stay safe and healthy, and May colors fill your life ❤🌈
Glad I'm not the only one who wants Dominic Noble to cover Nimona.
I feel like the loyalty to the source material in Watchmen left a lot of people just not understanding the world. When the Overton Window has shifted so much you kind of have to contextualize it to something modern audiences understand.
Totally agree with you - details, specifics don't matter to me, the heart, the spirit is the most important to me, has always been. The only case when I start noticing the specifics is when the heart is not there. And yeah, I absolutely adore this movie❤
I totally agree! Excellent video laying out all your points ❤
I recently got to meet some of the people that animated Nimona, and the love and passion they had for the film was just joyful
Oh ye, I am sending this video to my literature teacher. They'll love it. Just as much as I did!
Haven't had the pleasure of reading the book/web comic. I didn't even know there was one. Your reaction to this work reminds me of my own pleasure at the adaptation of Ella Enchanted to the big screen. The original book is much more literary (e.g. there are long letters sent back and forth between characters). I feel the changes the movie made because of the change in medium made great sense and enhanced the joy of the book. I'll have to look for the Nimona book.
The nature of adaptations is so interesting.
Agreed, Nimona is fantastic!
I agree, and I love both the comic and the movie!
Thank you for the video!
This is why I don't care for Wednesday as an adaptation of The Addams Family, they just didn't understand the heart of it at all
I think you've hit the nail on the head with what makes an adaptation work as an _adaptation._ There have been works in the past where I enjoyed both the book and the movie but just accept that they are different things (see "Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH" vs "The Secret of NIHM" or pretty much any movie adapted from a Philip K. Dick story). There have been adaptations that hew close to the source in plot and characters but fell flat because they missed the heart of the work (I put the Slaughterhouse-Five movie alongside The Watchmen in this category).
Another recent work that - against all odds - got the heart of the adaptation right despite making significant plot changes was the live action One Piece. I think Nimona is a better example (both for your channel's audience and in terms of making _big_ changes), but considering both the track record of Western live action adaptations of manga and anime and that One Piece has a large, worldwide fanbase and sales numbers that rival the Boy Wizard who will not be named... it was quite an accomplishment.
The fact that One Piece has sold more books than the boy wizard franchise will always be funny given how much gender fuckery goes on in One Piece. A character that transes people's gender as a magical power. Bon Clay being a highly beloved character. A trans women uses the women's bath with the cis women and everyone's cool and natural about it. Even an evil enslaver respects his transmasc son's pronoun. Trans characters who don't pass still have their identities respected by their allies. How is a shonen manga giving better trans characters than 99% of western media?
@@ImpulsiveCreativity That's a good point. I've been watching the anime for the first time since shortly before the Netflix series dropped and have just gotten through Punk Hazard. As soon as Luffy reached level 5.5 of Impel Down I went in search of an analysis from a queer perspective. Unfortunately, I had to quickly stop watching the one video I found because it was clear it covered a lot of things that occur later in the series.
While it was clearly coming from a place of supporting queer representation, there are elements that... puzzle me. The characters there and in the Kamabakka Kingdom are (barring Sanji) openly accepted, but the visual presentation of most of the... trans women? Crossdressers? (There's a bit of vagueness as to where most of these characters fall on either the sexuality or gender spectrums) Anyway, the art style always seems to go out of its way to make it clear that these are _not_ cis women. I'm not sure if it's a Japanese cultural thing I'm not aware of, or even if the queer community at large embraces it, but from my perspective it often feels like the _text_ is embracing queerness while the art style is othering it, leading to very mixed signals.
Between that and Ivankov using their powers early in the arc to change the genders of two characters without their consent... yeah, there's a reason I wanted to get some second opinions on how to view the representation in One Piece.
@@Pooglian Oh wow I'm impressed how far into the series you are from having started just a few weeks ago!
I have similar feelings about the Impel Down and Kamabakka. That stuff was written in the mid 2000s, though. The okama characters are, from what Japanese people have told me, based on the Okama stereotype which was the only openly queer people on TV for a while in Japan. They don't seem to represent gay men or trans women but are their own thing in the eyes of cishet people who aren't aware of the differences between queer identities. Some people think they are men who are women at heart, and some think they are just all queer men. But Okama was also a slur used against trans people and queer men. Bon Clay and Iva seem to have reclaimed or embraced this and are living freely. A major theme in One Piece is freedom so living freely your identity and expression and making being an okama a powerful free way of life is an interesting take on it. It's clearly meant for them to be 'good guys' as they're opposing the corrupt government and helped make Sanji stronger despite everything.
It seems like Oda means well. I don't think he'd make Iva and Bon Clay allies to Luffy and Dragon if he had ill intentions towards gender queer people.
The later stuff that I won't spoil is better in terms of representation. There are still non-passing trans characters but they are treated well by their allies. Sanji even makes heart eyes at a trans women though she is very feminine in appearance. We haven't seen the Okamas in a long time, though we do see Iva from time to time as part of the revolutionary army. Also since you're an anime watcher you might not know that Bon Clay is still alive and has taken up Iva's previous role in Impel Down.
It was emotional but for some reason I laughed at “you’re not a monster”
Thank you for bringing Nimona to my attention Vera.
I had never heard of it before you did your review of the film and it instantly became my favourite film of the decade!
Finally got the chance to read the book, and wow, was it great :D and for once, I really do want to watch the movie too - as you say, they really seem to have made all the right choices, and while changing things preserved or even enhanced the essence of the work :) now that's a good way to adapt something for sure :)! Thank you for this
I have a read that I love that you gave me after mentioning the mix of the ancient with the knights and the modern with the smartphones and pizza of how depending on your perspective, either one can seem out of place. The difference is if you see the past as outdated, or the future as ill-fitting, and ultimately we see that progress and the future is what helps us _all_ win. The reveal of the corruption with the confession video, the twisting of the truth from the desperate, corrupt monarchy using those tools whilst simultaneously having the people see the _truth_ about Nimona with the help of technology, broadcasting her pain and her vulnerability and innocence to the world. I hope people who started watching this film seeing the phones as an odd inclusion ended with the relief of the outdated, corrupt system being torn apart.
Made an effort to finally watch Nimona before this video and...I'm still wiping the tears from my face but I just can't help but adore the heart-shaped anarchist symbol at the end
Master for the master god! Class for the class throne!
Having watched the movie @ the day before your last video, I bought and read the (digital version) the same day. Thank You.
I really like Nimona.
Great video! I read the graphic novel a loooong time ago, so the film is fresher in my mind. But I have fond memories of them both. I really like how adaptions have the potential to be a continuation of the creator's work just like a sequel - in the sense that it gives them a chance to remake their world with new eyes, backed by their new experiences and knowledge :)
This so much. I do "feel" more with the movie than I do with the comics. Maybe because I don't relate ? The comics generally seems more "confused" (not in a bad way but because you can see that Nate Stevenson was working through stuff) and I cannot relate to that feeling. I can feel for the people who do feel it but I can't feel it with them. And that's very much how I experienced the comics both the first time I read it (a gift from someone who knew I loved She Ra almost a year to the day before the movie came out XD) and when I reread it after watching the movie.
But the movie is much more relatable, not because my experience is anywhere near close to the characters (I come from a privileged background but the person who raised me didn't), but Nimona's anger and pain are so universal and the way she still gets to be happy with a loving found family with its own journey to acceptance is just....all the right buttons to make me emote tbh. Because this, I get.
As for adaptations, I think there are different ways to go to make a good one.
You can focus on the themes,
you can focus on the characters,
you can focus on the atmosphere,
you can focus on the worldbuilding.
There's a fine line between adaptation and inspiration. Like the How to Train Your Dragon trilogy is more inspired by the books than an actual adaptation and it failed the second they tried to integrate actual parts of the books because it didn't fit. Because all four points were different from the books.
Whether an adaptation tries to be similar or go into a different direction is of no importance to me tbh. faithfulness is nice when you want to see the story through a different media lens (like wanting to see fight scenes go from the pages to the screen, or generally any kind of performance like music or danse or magic tricks) and sometimes it's cool if you don't have access to the original, other times the differences are highly appreciated because it just enhances your experience. And there are times where you're just along for the ride.
As far as I'm concerned a good adaptation needs to keep at least two of the four points to work out. and of those two you need at least one to be, at its core, the same as the original.
ie, for Nimona the core is, as you said, the themes while the Characters are also still mostly there and their changes are linked to the the other three points' changes.
I haven't watched Sandman yet so I can't comment on it but while I'm not through with the One Piece Live Action series I have seen a few episodes and find it to be a relatively good adaptation. which is fascinating considering the kind of world we're working with here.
The characters have changed but only in so far as the world has changed (so far the main changes are the cook being british instead of french and the swords guy being a bit less of a dumbass). Can't really talk about the themes yet but so far at least the found family and freedom bits seem to have been kept which are pretty important, The worldbuilding was tamed to fit a TV show but is still respected and they tried to find a balance between the over-exageration of the manga and what a tv show can do and seem to have kept it relatively consistent.
Overall it actually managed to hit all four points and it's highly enjoyable while Nimona was such a great experience because I got something new out of it.
The Ace Attorney movie in 2012 was pretty good too (the only part I was sad about was that Maya was way too gloomy but she did just lose her sister/guardian so, fair). The play on the world building was great, some things unexplained in the game get an underwhelming explanation which makes it oh so more great (the confetti), while others are just a nice touch (the evidence presentation). They kept the overall story and themes (criticism of the japanese justice system by showing how ridiculous it is), the characters, the atmosphere and honestly to this day it is one of the adaptations I have enjoyed the most in my life.
Good stuff Vera
13:49 So funny anectdote about that: I started making up stories in like elementary school. The oldest story I can remember was about Woolly the sheep, a rainbow sheep who didnt fit in with the herd, left and found a herd of rainbow sheep he could belong to. I was like 7 or 8, I didnt even know what "queer" was - I wasnt even aware of the rainbow flag or gay people existing and yet it couldnt be more obvious looking back at it (+ Im also neurodivergent so thats a double-whammy of not fitting in).
Looks like I will have an energetic discussion with my daughter about which of us gets to gift the book to my transmasc son... This is an intesely positive "problem" BTW. ❤ (heart)
I read the book and re watch the movie today, the book is fantastic and the movie is the best movie of the year. Adaptations not being 100% accurate does not make them bad adaptations.
I just watched it a few weeks ago. I remember you and Jessie Gender talking about it. It was quite good. I will try to get the book. It was so good and excellent video
I didn’t realize how much I needed to hear that I’m beautiful and that I matter. Thank you.
This is an amazing video :)
I'm straight and I identify with Nimona. Most of us have her within us. I love her.
❤'d this film.
I almost passed up the movie. I like the books art reminds me a little of Adventure Time. I might have to grab a copy now
i mean its undertandable, the viain helps making it work as movie while making clear that isnt really the villain, thats the feels and very much is the real thing. The director is just good to focus ad create that . and make goldenloin shine too.
And its probably good heee did the self villainiation focused on nemona. Cause original nemona sounds like a drama. and pain. and this , a happy end is a good choice. As much as ilike good dramas.
Through people can always read the webcomic i guess.
i noticed some of my art, when im going through stuff, you can tell what im going through a little bit, which is so weird to think about.
I hope that when the Babylon 5 remake comes out it is similarly the same but different and enjoyable in the way that both the book and film of Nimona are both good but different. If that makes sense. Just the retelling of a story made me think of that. JMS is so much more mature now. I know the older I get the more emotional intelligence I grow into. I'm still pretty stupid, but I'm improving. Like hopefully all of us. I appreciate that things don't have to be a shot for shot redo. Just saying, this take on adaptation gives me hope.
I love the faithfulness of The Sandman, but I know they are going to make changes, I think they are going to merge Wanda and Ruby into one character from what I heard, but it can work and it should be fine as long as we still get the emotional payoff of both characters' deaths rolled into one somehow. I really Really hope they keep the scene with Barbie changing Wanda's headstone to her real name over top of her dead name, that was beautiful to me.
There are still Knights and Kings etc in England.
I completely agree that the heart and themes of Nimona are preserved by the film. I do also feel Nimona is *missing* something. In my opinion it sacrifices the grays of the world for sharp distinctions (like making ambrosius unambiguously good instead of a bully at first, changing ballister from blackheart to boldheart. I really loved the deleted scene of Nimona trying to be accepted by animals before people) in order to make it "easier" to follow. I think it's weaker for it. It has a very straightforward moral and therefore pretty limited rewatch enjoyment. Nimona is a huge step forward (like Korrasami) and I hope paves the way for *more*. I think I just don't like that the teen/tween/young adult webcomic was aged down for the movie.
Bad guy with rules so Lawful Evil. :-).
This is a conversation we are having in the wheel of time community. What does it mean to adapt something?
I saw another video that spoke about Changelings in other Mediums being aliens/commies and then later immigrants/refuges and in this masculine trans depiction the Alien depiction is seen more as a good natured punk rock uneasiness that you might find in characters like Hobie Brown in Across the Spiderverse. It's a positive depiction of someone that's hard to place who for many there could be a ton of friction in getting to know.
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I know Nimona is a story about queerness, but as a not-very-queer person who's on the autistic spectrum I've felt so many of the same things queer people sympathise with in this story. This otherness, the way society makes you want to wear a mask, and how amazing it feels to be able to actually be your weird self are just a few of the themes
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Nimona is probably the best queer movie ever made.
Fantastic Video as always!! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 ❤❤💖💖