Wait a second where exactly is your evidence that it was Ulfric who caused this problem? Iam not convinced as alot of evidence points towards the fact that the Thalmor are operating within Skyrim on behalf of the concordate, because thats what they are saying all the time and because this permission is now several years past and the thalmor are still openly running arround in the Imperial terretorys of Skyrim.
I agree with every word. The Empire seems to be in a better position (many legions on the border for example) that the one traspired from a first look to thew concordat, so must be like you say.
Great video as always! The money that the Proventus Avenici refers to, if the Thalmor were the ones who gave the money to Skyrim's Jarls, they could've been attempting to buy the loyalty of the Jarls since they pretty much rule their holds indepently of each other, divide & conquer. Buying off an enemy has worked in our own history, and we know there are quite a few Jarls who clearly shouldn't be in their positions; e.g. Jarl Layla Lawgiver of Riften - shes merely a figurehead in the Rift with no actual power since Maven Blackbriar holds the power in Riften, if you play the Imperial side in the Civil War questline and Maven becomes Jarl of Riften, you essentially only make her officially Jarl of Riften as she already had the power of Jarl all she lacked was title & Layla Lawgiver clearly doesn't care about her people in the Rift and would abandon them to die if the city was attacked by a dragon, bandits or other threats; if you listen to conversations between her and her steward, the steward tells Jarl Layla that she has a private carriage already prepared should Layla need to leave the city - she'd abandon her own people to die. There are many Jarls in Skyrim who are inept to rule their holds, the only decent Jarl is Jarl Balgruuf of Whiterun at the beginning of the game he's the only one who hasn't picked a side in the civil war and is more interested in looking after his people in the city and in the outlying farms and villages. Its Ulfric Stormcloak that forces Balgruuf's hands in siding with the Empire, Ulfirc rejects Balgruuf's offer of duelling with Ulfric in the ways of their ancestors - Ulfric already duelled High King Torygg so whats the difference? Why risk the lives of your people when you could fight one on one, Ulfirc has his army fire catapults at Whiterun even though he has supporters in the city namely the Greymanes. Balgruuf even states just before the Battle that the city's walls are barely holding up as it is when he hears that the Stormcloaks have catapults.
A note on Balgruuf and Ulfric: there's some reasonable doubt as to whether Ulfric even dueled Torygg fairly, so even ignoring the obvious futility of the gesture, trying to duel him would be foolish at best.
@@Oops-All-Ghosts what about galmar or ralof? Especially ralof. They are true nords as well, just that they joined the wrong side of the war. Galmar is a very intelligent person and he knows how to lead his fellow comrades to victory. Ralof is a very honorable man who may lack intellect, but knows that if he is going to side with someone he may as well be as loyal as he possibly can. Another good example of a true nord is brunwulf free-winter. Brunwulf free-winter is a good man and he has a very good view on the world. He isn't racist towards the dunmer of the gray quarter, he is very welcoming to any khajit he sees, he believes that the stormcloaks are blinded by war and violence so much so that they are becoming racist towards the very people who they believe they're helping, which is very true, and he also believes that the thalmor are in the wrong which is also true.
I heard an interesting theory stating basically that Titus Mede knew that Hammerfell would succeed from the Empire, keep fighting on their own, and deprive the Thalmor of those southern Hammerfell regions and securing the Abecean Sea for the Empire and Hammerfell trade. The White-Gold Concordat may have looked quite appealing to the Thalmor, but that Hammerfell part was only in there for looks. That is why Titus Mede "abandoned" Hammerfell. It was an indirect blow to the Thalmor.
I agree that this was indeed quite the shrewd maneuver on Mede's part. It essentially forced the Thalmor to further deplete themselves if they wanted to actually try and claim those territories, and thus gave the Empire greater assurance of time to recover.
Wow, I found your channel very recently, and I'm amazed by it. I seriously admire all the work you put into your channel and the passion you have. You're among my favorite youtubers right now, and it seems it will stay that way. Thank you for all the incredible videos, you are much appreciated!
There is one piece of evidence that irrefutably proves that Tiber Septim had in fact ascended to Godhood and became the 9th Divine Talos. During the events of the Obilvon Crisis, the Hero of Kvatch saves Martin, the last of the Septim line. At one point of the main quest Mythic Dawn cult members steal the Amulet of King's, which Martin needs to relight the Dragonfires at the Imperial Temple, to end Mehrunes Dagon's invasion of Nirn. The Mythic Dawn worships Dagon believing that Nirn is his birthright to rule. The leader of the cult, Mankar Camoran fled with the Amulet through a portal to his personal pocket Realm of Oblivion. Martin is able to decipher part of an ancient text the Mysterium Xarxes, that in part states to open said portal and recover the Amulet, the blood of a Divine is required. The Hero of Kvatch is tasked with retrieving Tiber's armor from his tomb at Sancre Tor, which had his blood on it due to battle So that unquestionably proves that he did in fact ascend to Godhood, because the blood of a Divine was one of the needed requirements to open the portal, to deal with Mankar Camoran and get the Amulet back. Tiber's blood was one of the components used, and Martin successfully opens the portal. Tiber's blood obviously wouldn't have worked if he wasn't a Divine.
@@lucialuppi5402 The difference is that Talos (Tiber Septim) was a mortal before he became a Divine. The same can not be said for the other Aedra except for Arkay if you believe the alternative story of his origin where he is explained as having been a mortal at one point that, like Talos, achieved godhood and became a Divine.
@DomusDulcisDomus "You Are Correct, But In Skyrim It Is Said That You (The Main Character And Dragonborn) Have The Blood Of A Dragon, Meaning That A Dragonborn Also Has The Blood Of A Dragon."
For some reason alot of civilians don't understand military logistics and just how much of an undertaking it is to coordinate massive troop movements especially when relying on very basic transport(feet, naval vessels, etc). The Soldiers not being paid would be an issue but I'd imagine that those who are dedicated would still do their job because they know that, if they're successful, they will be compensated eventually and will treat it as a late paycheck. Think about it, single soldiers with no family to support back home will have very little need for money while on deployment if they're being supplied which ultimately brings us back to logistics, without that they'll run out of essentials and lose morale pretty quickly(which is a huge deal, you could have the greatest army the world has ever seen and still end up losing to a smaller less capable force when they're demoralized).
Tbf, the gold Proventio talks about was probably a bribe from the Empire to skyrim's jarls, to prevent them from succeding after the outlaw of Talos' worship
The Thalmor would eventually notice Talos worship even if it was in secret, same happened in the Spanish Inquisition because the Monarchs knew of the heathens and forced its faith upon all its subjects. If the Thalmor who interferes in Empire business (as seen in Season Unending) it eventually, even if it would take years.. it would be harshly enforce the Talos worshipping ban.
In the case of Beyond Skyrim bruma, the Thalmor are probably, there because of the Stormcloak activity near the border. Added to the fact that there are a high percentage of Nords in bruma. And even then there's not a lot of Thalmor there's like four, and your first interaction with them is someone telling them to literally f*** off. So what you mean it doesn't seem like the Thalmor have a lot of power in Burma anyways. And they were probably station there in case Stormcloaks or Talos worshipers cross the border.
The money given to the Jarls was a bribe to ensure loyalty, Talos is heavily worshipped in Skyrim and their religion just got banned.. the dominion demanded tributes to further bankrupt the Empire.
I don't think the Concordat was actually a serious thing, I believe that the Thalmor just drew up the most outrageous terms to provoke the Empire into war.
You forget the magical and prophetic support in the time since that has all but proven that the elves were correct; the deceiver is acting as he has many times. There are greater things at work. Alduin returns, the elves were literally trying to undo the crimes of humans before it brought about the prophesized end of creation. The return of Ayleid gold was a slap in the face for certain.
This talk to the Thalmor and beyond skyrim reminds me of another issue I have with that mod. Pale Pass is supposed to be completely blocked off by snow after an avalanche, that's the only reason why there's a civil war in Skyrim at all. There's only one legion present in Skyrim at the time, and they can't get reinforcements from Cyrodiil because Pale Pass is blocked off, but in beyond skyrim they've completely ignored this, the border crossing is totally clear of avalanches and nobody even acknowledges it, so why hasnt the Skyrim legion been reinforced and Ulfrics rebellion crushed? There's no reason for the empire to be evenly matched with the stormcloaks if Pale Pass is open. And yes, this info is in-game, there's a letter somewhere around Helgen I think.
Maybe the Empire couldn't afford to risk making their southern borders vulnerable to the Thalmor? Or, my wild theory, the Empire actually wants the civil war prolonged (preferably in a stalemate with few casualties on both sides). The Thalmor then would be content with the Empire in a civil war, so Empire can have some more time to prepare.
3:30 The main reason they wanted that gold Tribute from the Empire is to keep them Weak Financially, and hope for the inevitable rebellion of The empire...Making it much easier to deal with...When an empire is poor...people get pissed off..Simple Strife Tactic without iring a single shot
I was thinking couldn’t they say all things go back to the way they were before the war? I guess not, but i was thnking the empire didn’t have to win, they just had to not lose
It makes sense for thalmor to be in bruma but not all of cyrodiil bruma is home to the great chapple of Talos and with the concordat in place that city would be similar to Skyrim
I don't think you need to come up with some secret war reparations paid by the Thalmor to the Imperials in order to justify the "chests full of gold" thing. The Empire may not have a great understanding of Nordic culture, but you don't need to be a cultural savant to realize that declaring a region's patron saint non-canon is going to piss them off. Skyrim's rebellion is potentially catastrophic even at the time it ends up happening; if it had happened immediately following the war it would have split the Empire like an egg, which is probably what the Thalmor--who are far better at espionage than they are at open warfare--wanted. This makes getting the Jarls to keep their people in check, and, crucially, _not actually enforcing the ban_ a key matter of policy for the Empire in Skyrim in the years following the White-Gold Concordat. Moreso than rebuilding infrastructure, moreso than rebuilding the army, and certainly moreso than fixing any of the other provinces. Reinforcing the idea that the Thalmor were trying to provoke a rebellion in Skyrim (and thus demonstrating that the Empire had every reason to prioritize pacifying the Jarls over pretty much anything else at the time): -The ban on Talos worship in the Empire is not important to the Thalmor if they're planning on conquering the Empire. They can ban it all they like when the Emperor is dead and members of the Dominion sit in his stead. They clearly aren't planning on stopping their forward march at the borders defined post-Great War, so this must be a political move. -Ulfric was in direct contact with the Thalmor up to and during the Markarth Incident. This means that he was in direct contact with the Thalmor _while he was agitating for the reversal of the ban_. I don't see how you could possibly frame this as anything but the Thalmor using him as an excuse to place themselves as a police force within Skyrim, which then allowed them to begin abducting and murdering worshippers of Talos, nominally on the behalf of the Emperor. Nearly every Nord venerates Talos in some way, but until the Thalmor showed up they'd been able to continue worshipping him in secret without too much difficulty--again, the Empire was deliberately not enforcing the ban at first. -The Thalmor, as a police force in Skyrim, are now conflated with the Empire. The Imperials become tyrants, elf-lovers and murderers in the eyes of many common Nords. And although Ulfric becomes uncooperative after the Markarth Incident, he's still agitating on behalf of Talos worship--the perfect rallying point for anyone looking to fight against the Empire. The Thalmor _love_ this civil war. They want it continue for as long as possible, because it weakens two potential enemies--the warrior-like people of Skyrim, who would otherwise be a pain in the ass to conquer, and the Empire itself, who they _need_ weakened if they want to stand a chance against them in the next war. Even just losing the support of half the Nords within their own ranks would decimate the Imperial legions, and frankly, that's already happened now, regardless of whether the Imperials win the war or not. The Empire doesn't need to have received secret reparations in the war to feel it necessary to send gold to the Jarls, even if they are in the economic trashbin.
You hit the nail on the head, the Thalmor want the war to last as long as it can. If Ulfric wins, and manages to make a *new* alliance with the Empire(an offer the Empire would be foolish to refuse), even in secret, then Skyrim can aid the Empire as an ally, not a subject. Either way the war ends, the Thalmor would have a fair bit of trouble. Especially if there is even the slightest bit of growing decention in the Dominion(even Altmer hate the Thalmor, then there's the Bosmer, and the Thalmor better have a firm grip on those Two Moons, otherwise there go the Khajit). If there is enough growing decention within the Dominion against the Thalmor, at the same time the LDB ends the Civil War(either way), and through the LDB, helps forge an alliance against the Thalmor, then the Thalmor would need an Oblivion Crisis to save them from destruction. But, I could be wrong☺.
Actually it does make sense in beyond Skyrim because the church of talks was converted to the church of Martin septim. This pissed off the dominion because they’re of the same bloodline.
after finishing the civil war questline you should be able to kill the imposing sides camps including the legates instead of them still being marked as essential characters
Could you do a video on what the imperials think about the outlaw of talos worship. In oblivion everyone was always saying “thank talos” but in Skyrim the imperials don’t seem to care anymore
The Imperials would keep it to themselves. They're not the kind of idiots who start and yell about it, after all, that gets the Thalmor on your heels. The whole reason the Thalmor are in Skyrim is because the Empire drew too much attention to not enforcing the ban in Skyrim; and by that I mean, unlike the ''we just don't enforce it, worship all you like'' atitude they used to have, Ulfric forced them to go ''Everyone has free Talos worship in Markarth!''.
Moosca that's not true at all you can hear legate rikke saying something about talos I forgot what though and even an imperial supporter in markarth has a talos shrine and amulet and it doesn't end there in markarth there's even a public but hidden shrine so yes they believe in talos but they worship talos in secret
I wonder how would the Roman empire at the hight if their power would square up against the Dominion, I think of this because the imperials are undoubtibly based off the Romans. My guess is that they would put up quite the fight against the elven scum
The Roman’s would have won, unlike the empire in elder scrolls they weren’t cowards. Just look at Carthage they lost hundreds of thousands of men and still persevered.
@@IssasHusband magic would probably scare them some and make a few routs at least at start but afterwards they probably just treat it as like catapults or powerful ranged troops. Though if we’re putting Rome in their world they would likely try and get their own Mages and train people in magic. If you want to see how that go look at Roman’s trying to sail during the carthage wars it didn’t go great for quite awhile.
Worth noting that Ulfric was actually working for the Thalmor, and was a cooperative asset for them until the Markarth Incident, meaning that much of his disruptive behavior *must* be interpreted as the Thalmor purposefully sewing discord within the empire's borders and trying to push for civil unrest that will weaken the empire before the next great war.
Which videos of yours talk about the empire ramifications of winning? I'm in the midst of creating a deep dive civil war video and I'd love to hear your views on it
The Legion in Cyrodiil is never recorded to have broken Concordat terms. The one in Skyrim did. The entire reason why the Thalmor are enforcing the Concordat in Skyrim is because they found out the Empire was breaking the terms of the Concordat there.
the White Gold Concordat is extremely cruel but Emperor Titus did his best to reclaim the Imperial City during the battle of the red ring, making the treaty less harsher than it should be.
No thats not the concordat, the guild never really got banned but dissolved after the oblivion crisis, splitting between the synod and college of whispers factions. I reccomend my (really old) video on the mages guild for the full story
I would suggest that the Thalmor wanted some peace or contributes (maybe). I could be completely wrong but here in America in the year 1846 to 48 there was a war against Mexico and America over land like Texas and Arizona. The war was short and I'm not going to get so far into that, America won the war against Mexico (could've just kept the land or whatever happened) instead America after the war still Payed Mexico for the property of the land and I would suggest maybe equal or contributions. Possibly alliance even temporarily as the Thalmor is doing
Does the concordat forbid alliances with Talos-worshipping nations? I'm assuming it does but if it didn't then couldn't the empire ally itself with an independent Talos-worshipping Skyrim?
I feel like you’re missing importation geopolitical approximations of weakening the economic strength of a regional hegemon and rival, it substantially reduces their ability to invest in public or in this case feudal or private, infrastructure or raising a substantial militant threat - less money for the empire - less chance of direct and indirect conflict as long as the economy is made dependent and maintains a reasonable quality of life
Do you have photoshop? If so you could try and make some cool thumbnails. Your two videos themselves look cool but they lack a "youtube style" thumbnail, if you get what I am talking about. With the title of your video on your thumbnail, that can really sometimes grab the attention of any potential viewers. Since people less often click on a video with just a screenshot. No critisim, just a suggestion :)
Yes, I completely agree that a custom thumbnail is more attractive to viewers. Up until yesterday, for some reason I previously assumed that a channel required a certain amount of subscribers to upload custom thumbnails but I was completely wrong, haha. I will be changing their thumbnails here soon.
It actually makes sense that the Dominion would pay reparations. It’s common in our world that reparations would be paid. The only thing different is that there wasn’t a specific winner or loser. People can say the Empire lost the war due to the Dominion-favored Treaty, but the demands made for the Hammerfell territory were already under Dominion control. Imperial Knowledge brings up a good point that the Empire did leave troops behind as well. Think of it more as a Cold War. The US had troops in Korea and Vietnam, but the US wasn’t at war. It was a hotspot. I can elaborate more if needed. But overall, the reparations makes sense, the Dominion and Empire had no idea what was next at the time of the treaty. If the Dominion had the resources, this would have zero impact on then.
If Thalmor paid Skyrim's jarls gold then they did it to start a rebellion against the Empire. It's obvious, they demand to reject the cult of Talos what makes proud Nords angry (As Tiber Septim know also as Talos was Nord not as you said in one of the films breton). And then they support Skyrim in rebelion. Skyrim was never as rich as south, and as you said you need gold to go on war. If you play with the Stormcloaks and attack General Tulius he says to Ulfric something like" You know that Thalmor wanted this?". On the first glympse they supported the enemy but in overall they had weaken the Empire greatly :)
The fact that the Imperial Jarls pretty much have to be at Elenwen's party doesn't exactly disprove that the Thalmor has carte blanche in Empire lands. And try to see the Talos ban from a religious perspective. Having been allowed to 'secretly' worship wasn't good enough.
If this speculation is true, i think the concordant was completely worth it. You cant really control the tribes of hammerfell in its civil-war state anyway at this time and I wouldnt care too much about the ban of Talos worship. Yes, Talos united Tamriel and even is said to have achieved chim, but he not more of a divine than Vivec and Alessia IMO
lots of Skybabies on here play morrowind in it you meet Talos or wolf as he is known there the Empire must fall in order to build it anew as it has multiple times in tamrelic history
Didn't they give Skyrim money to appease them for the whole Talos ban? I figured it was to avoid a Civil War in the first place. And I doubt the Dominion paid anything. They clearly won the war (it's addressed as the Empire surrendering), I'd even say they dominated the war since the Empire is so desperate to avoid another one that even decades later, they've reduced themselves to licking the Thalmor's boots and are willing to risk losing one of their provinces out of fear of border security. Meanwhile the Dominion clearly doesn't care if they go to war again, they're practically baiting the empire into doing it. With how much effort they've put into the Talos ban, I don't think conquering or destroying the empire ever mattered that much. All that matters is removing Talos worship. Everything else is just a bonus. If it was about conquering or destroying the empire, I don't think they would have ever given them the choice to begin with.
@@ImperialKnowledge Oh man that must've sucked, what kind of screwed logic were they operating on? I do agree with you lore wise about that thing you were saying by the way.
@@javierslytherin9898 all evidence points to the empire being able to win, such as the redguards fighting off the dominion, or the retaking of the imperial city. The empire never had to go to summerset it just had to hold its lands and potentially reclaim the continent from any thalmor Allies.
I think the Empire could have retaken Hammerfell but once they get to Elsweyr or Valenwood and need to go through that environment they'd be fucked. Especially if the Dominion started making deals with the Daedra like their ancestors did considering the fact they already had 1 daedric artifact that they used to dominate most of the war in Cyrodill
I think The Empire made the right move sigining The White Gold Concordant. I mean The Aldmeri Dominion and The Empire were both beaten pretty badly and if they kept fighting they'd probably have wiped each other out. So in my opinion the White Gold Concordant was the best move at the time as both sides of the war were pretty beaten.
It would be smart for the Thalmor to drive a wedge between Hammerfell/Skyrim and The Empire. Those two provinces are basically the muscle and sword of The Empire. Ulfric was a tool. He must die for the sake of Mankind which is propped up by The Empire.
![The Disaster in Akavir (Explained with map) - The Elder Scrolls Lore [Remaster]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4wuYHnuvfLo/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Disaster in Akavir (Explained with map) - The Elder Scrolls Lore [Remaster]](/img/tr.png)
A lot of this video is speculation, so keep that in mind!
Imperial Knowledge you should put some ads or if this vid is demonetization reupload it
Wait a second where exactly is your evidence that it was Ulfric who caused this problem? Iam not convinced as alot of evidence points towards the fact that the Thalmor are operating within Skyrim on behalf of the concordate, because thats what they are saying all the time and because this permission is now several years past and the thalmor are still openly running arround in the Imperial terretorys of Skyrim.
I agree with every word. The Empire seems to be in a better position (many legions on the border for example) that the one traspired from a first look to thew concordat, so must be like you say.
Imperial Knowledge
What are "The Blades?"
The amount of dedication and work that goes into these videos is amazing! Thank you for creating them!
you sound extraordinarily like that wizard in Dragonsreach....
Farengar
Farengar Secret-Fire
Thanks. I knew I had him from somewhere
He really does well spotted
Come to Dragonsreach to discuss the ongoing hostilities, like the rest of the "great warriors"?
Empire loves their damed lists
2 of the same comments.... Hmhmmhm
Lollllll I love this comment
Don’t be afraid of long videos we come because we enjoy them 😀
Great video as always!
The money that the Proventus Avenici refers to, if the Thalmor were the ones who gave the money to Skyrim's Jarls, they could've been attempting to buy the loyalty of the Jarls since they pretty much rule their holds indepently of each other, divide & conquer. Buying off an enemy has worked in our own history, and we know there are quite a few Jarls who clearly shouldn't be in their positions;
e.g. Jarl Layla Lawgiver of Riften - shes merely a figurehead in the Rift with no actual power since Maven Blackbriar holds the power in Riften, if you play the Imperial side in the Civil War questline and Maven becomes Jarl of Riften, you essentially only make her officially Jarl of Riften as she already had the power of Jarl all she lacked was title & Layla Lawgiver clearly doesn't care about her people in the Rift and would abandon them to die if the city was attacked by a dragon, bandits or other threats; if you listen to conversations between her and her steward, the steward tells Jarl Layla that she has a private carriage already prepared should Layla need to leave the city - she'd abandon her own people to die.
There are many Jarls in Skyrim who are inept to rule their holds, the only decent Jarl is Jarl Balgruuf of Whiterun at the beginning of the game he's the only one who hasn't picked a side in the civil war and is more interested in looking after his people in the city and in the outlying farms and villages. Its Ulfric Stormcloak that forces Balgruuf's hands in siding with the Empire, Ulfirc rejects Balgruuf's offer of duelling with Ulfric in the ways of their ancestors - Ulfric already duelled High King Torygg so whats the difference? Why risk the lives of your people when you could fight one on one, Ulfirc has his army fire catapults at Whiterun even though he has supporters in the city namely the Greymanes. Balgruuf even states just before the Battle that the city's walls are barely holding up as it is when he hears that the Stormcloaks have catapults.
A note on Balgruuf and Ulfric: there's some reasonable doubt as to whether Ulfric even dueled Torygg fairly, so even ignoring the obvious futility of the gesture, trying to duel him would be foolish at best.
Nuka Scotia yeah to me ulfric and balgruuf are the truest nords ulfric a lot less so tho
Legate Rikke and Hadvar are pretty great too.
@@Oops-All-Ghosts No kidding, Rikke is severely underrated.
@@Oops-All-Ghosts what about galmar or ralof? Especially ralof. They are true nords as well, just that they joined the wrong side of the war. Galmar is a very intelligent person and he knows how to lead his fellow comrades to victory. Ralof is a very honorable man who may lack intellect, but knows that if he is going to side with someone he may as well be as loyal as he possibly can. Another good example of a true nord is brunwulf free-winter. Brunwulf free-winter is a good man and he has a very good view on the world. He isn't racist towards the dunmer of the gray quarter, he is very welcoming to any khajit he sees, he believes that the stormcloaks are blinded by war and violence so much so that they are becoming racist towards the very people who they believe they're helping, which is very true, and he also believes that the thalmor are in the wrong which is also true.
I heard an interesting theory stating basically that Titus Mede knew that Hammerfell would succeed from the Empire, keep fighting on their own, and deprive the Thalmor of those southern Hammerfell regions and securing the Abecean Sea for the Empire and Hammerfell trade. The White-Gold Concordat may have looked quite appealing to the Thalmor, but that Hammerfell part was only in there for looks. That is why Titus Mede "abandoned" Hammerfell. It was an indirect blow to the Thalmor.
Helps that there were many “discharged” legionaries in Hammerfell that helped with their war
I agree that this was indeed quite the shrewd maneuver on Mede's part. It essentially forced the Thalmor to further deplete themselves if they wanted to actually try and claim those territories, and thus gave the Empire greater assurance of time to recover.
12:39 Tullius when the dragonborn sides with the stormcloacks
Ahh yes, Tullius begins to rant about beyond skyrim not being canon.
And vice versa
@@ethanschenck9714 stormcloaks when the sides Tullius to the dragonborn?
Wow, I found your channel very recently, and I'm amazed by it. I seriously admire all the work you put into your channel and the passion you have. You're among my favorite youtubers right now, and it seems it will stay that way. Thank you for all the incredible videos, you are much appreciated!
There is one piece of evidence that irrefutably proves that Tiber Septim had in fact ascended to Godhood and became the 9th Divine Talos. During the events of the Obilvon Crisis, the Hero of Kvatch saves Martin, the last of the Septim line. At one point of the main quest Mythic Dawn cult members steal the Amulet of King's, which Martin needs to relight the Dragonfires at the Imperial Temple, to end Mehrunes Dagon's invasion of Nirn. The Mythic Dawn worships Dagon believing that Nirn is his birthright to rule. The leader of the cult, Mankar Camoran fled with the Amulet through a portal to his personal pocket Realm of Oblivion. Martin is able to decipher part of an ancient text the Mysterium Xarxes, that in part states to open said portal and recover the Amulet, the blood of a Divine is required. The Hero of Kvatch is tasked with retrieving Tiber's armor from his tomb at Sancre Tor, which had his blood on it due to battle
So that unquestionably proves that he did in fact ascend to Godhood, because the blood of a Divine was one of the needed requirements to open the portal, to deal with Mankar Camoran and get the Amulet back. Tiber's blood was one of the components used, and Martin successfully opens the portal. Tiber's blood obviously wouldn't have worked if he wasn't a Divine.
Phil Sorb but the other eight bleed too? That is difficult to imagine.
@@lucialuppi5402 The difference is that Talos (Tiber Septim) was a mortal before he became a Divine. The same can not be said for the other Aedra except for Arkay if you believe the alternative story of his origin where he is explained as having been a mortal at one point that, like Talos, achieved godhood and became a Divine.
"Was he not Dragonborn?" "Did he not have the blood of a God?"
@DomusDulcisDomus "You Are Correct, But In Skyrim It Is Said That You (The Main Character And Dragonborn) Have The Blood Of A Dragon, Meaning That A Dragonborn Also Has The Blood Of A Dragon."
For some reason alot of civilians don't understand military logistics and just how much of an undertaking it is to coordinate massive troop movements especially when relying on very basic transport(feet, naval vessels, etc). The Soldiers not being paid would be an issue but I'd imagine that those who are dedicated would still do their job because they know that, if they're successful, they will be compensated eventually and will treat it as a late paycheck. Think about it, single soldiers with no family to support back home will have very little need for money while on deployment if they're being supplied which ultimately brings us back to logistics, without that they'll run out of essentials and lose morale pretty quickly(which is a huge deal, you could have the greatest army the world has ever seen and still end up losing to a smaller less capable force when they're demoralized).
The chests of gold mentioned by the Steward in whiterun refer to a bribe given to the jarls to keep them haopy and not resist
Obviously, but where did a ravaged empire get that gold?
What if the Thalmor bribed the Jarls? @@ImperialKnowledge
Tbf, the gold Proventio talks about was probably a bribe from the Empire to skyrim's jarls, to prevent them from succeding after the outlaw of Talos' worship
I really respect that you can make The Empire look not as flimsy, weak and foolish as I saw it before
The Thalmor would eventually notice Talos worship even if it was in secret, same happened in the Spanish Inquisition because the Monarchs knew of the heathens and forced its faith upon all its subjects. If the Thalmor who interferes in Empire business (as seen in Season Unending) it eventually, even if it would take years.. it would be harshly enforce the Talos worshipping ban.
In the case of Beyond Skyrim bruma, the Thalmor are probably, there because of the Stormcloak activity near the border. Added to the fact that there are a high percentage of Nords in bruma. And even then there's not a lot of Thalmor there's like four, and your first interaction with them is someone telling them to literally f*** off. So what you mean it doesn't seem like the Thalmor have a lot of power in Burma anyways. And they were probably station there in case Stormcloaks or Talos worshipers cross the border.
To quote Ferdinand Foch: "This is not a peace, it is an armistice for twenty years."
The money given to the Jarls was a bribe to ensure loyalty, Talos is heavily worshipped in Skyrim and their religion just got banned.. the dominion demanded tributes to further bankrupt the Empire.
I don't think the Concordat was actually a serious thing, I believe that the Thalmor just drew up the most outrageous terms to provoke the Empire into war.
You forget the magical and prophetic support in the time since that has all but proven that the elves were correct; the deceiver is acting as he has many times. There are greater things at work. Alduin returns, the elves were literally trying to undo the crimes of humans before it brought about the prophesized end of creation. The return of Ayleid gold was a slap in the face for certain.
@BeKindToBirds you sound like a thalmor spy
Imperial knowledge: you don‘t Start a war of you can‘t afford it
Hitler: hold my beer !
They could definitely afford it at the start. WW2 lasted a long time and had Germany and its allies conquer a huge amount of land
If The Reich captured the Caucasus and Stalingrad didn’t happen, They could’ve won.
"Hold my stein!"
I never thought about the Thalmor being in places other than Skyrim not working, what you said makes a lot of sense. Great job, as always :)
Thanks!
Always nice to wake up to a TES lore video. Once again, another wonderful video.
Its 10AM why were you not awake earlier :P
Imperial Knowledge It’s 4 AM here in Ontario
When you want to walk up to thalmor justicars with your Talos amulet and your blades and break every other rule in front of them
Well done man! You are one of the top 3 TES lore youtubers!
On my lunch break at work from making coffins and perfect timing for a #TES lore video. Kickass job as always
Thanks!
#TitusMedeDidNothingWrong
Now that is a # i can get behind
Imperial Knowledge Same
Michael VPS #Rando did nothing wrong.
Thorus Zwolf
It was necessary for the survival of the Empire, Apparently you don't know enough about the great war
Thorus Zwolf
They we're no match for the Aldemeri Dominion/ Thalmor, especially they we're caught off guard vastly.
This talk to the Thalmor and beyond skyrim reminds me of another issue I have with that mod. Pale Pass is supposed to be completely blocked off by snow after an avalanche, that's the only reason why there's a civil war in Skyrim at all. There's only one legion present in Skyrim at the time, and they can't get reinforcements from Cyrodiil because Pale Pass is blocked off, but in beyond skyrim they've completely ignored this, the border crossing is totally clear of avalanches and nobody even acknowledges it, so why hasnt the Skyrim legion been reinforced and Ulfrics rebellion crushed? There's no reason for the empire to be evenly matched with the stormcloaks if Pale Pass is open. And yes, this info is in-game, there's a letter somewhere around Helgen I think.
Maybe the Empire couldn't afford to risk making their southern borders vulnerable to the Thalmor?
Or, my wild theory, the Empire actually wants the civil war prolonged (preferably in a stalemate with few casualties on both sides). The Thalmor then would be content with the Empire in a civil war, so Empire can have some more time to prepare.
@@JerichoJulius0 The letter I mentioned says troops are massing on the other side of the pass, waiting for it to clear up.
3:30 The main reason they wanted that gold Tribute from the Empire is to keep them Weak Financially, and hope for the inevitable rebellion of The empire...Making it much easier to deal with...When an empire is poor...people get pissed off..Simple Strife Tactic without iring a single shot
The Thalmor had some real nerve asking for all that stuff...I mean especially after they lost the Battle of Red Ring.
I was thinking couldn’t they say all things go back to the way they were before the war? I guess not, but i was thnking the empire didn’t have to win, they just had to not lose
It makes sense for thalmor to be in bruma but not all of cyrodiil bruma is home to the great chapple of Talos and with the concordat in place that city would be similar to Skyrim
I always understood the gold was from the empire to the nords to keep them on side, not from the thalmor
If was the biggest mistake in my opinion. Fuck the Thalmor. TES 6 we need to defeat the Thalmor.
I don't think you need to come up with some secret war reparations paid by the Thalmor to the Imperials in order to justify the "chests full of gold" thing. The Empire may not have a great understanding of Nordic culture, but you don't need to be a cultural savant to realize that declaring a region's patron saint non-canon is going to piss them off. Skyrim's rebellion is potentially catastrophic even at the time it ends up happening; if it had happened immediately following the war it would have split the Empire like an egg, which is probably what the Thalmor--who are far better at espionage than they are at open warfare--wanted. This makes getting the Jarls to keep their people in check, and, crucially, _not actually enforcing the ban_ a key matter of policy for the Empire in Skyrim in the years following the White-Gold Concordat. Moreso than rebuilding infrastructure, moreso than rebuilding the army, and certainly moreso than fixing any of the other provinces.
Reinforcing the idea that the Thalmor were trying to provoke a rebellion in Skyrim (and thus demonstrating that the Empire had every reason to prioritize pacifying the Jarls over pretty much anything else at the time):
-The ban on Talos worship in the Empire is not important to the Thalmor if they're planning on conquering the Empire. They can ban it all they like when the Emperor is dead and members of the Dominion sit in his stead. They clearly aren't planning on stopping their forward march at the borders defined post-Great War, so this must be a political move.
-Ulfric was in direct contact with the Thalmor up to and during the Markarth Incident. This means that he was in direct contact with the Thalmor _while he was agitating for the reversal of the ban_. I don't see how you could possibly frame this as anything but the Thalmor using him as an excuse to place themselves as a police force within Skyrim, which then allowed them to begin abducting and murdering worshippers of Talos, nominally on the behalf of the Emperor. Nearly every Nord venerates Talos in some way, but until the Thalmor showed up they'd been able to continue worshipping him in secret without too much difficulty--again, the Empire was deliberately not enforcing the ban at first.
-The Thalmor, as a police force in Skyrim, are now conflated with the Empire. The Imperials become tyrants, elf-lovers and murderers in the eyes of many common Nords. And although Ulfric becomes uncooperative after the Markarth Incident, he's still agitating on behalf of Talos worship--the perfect rallying point for anyone looking to fight against the Empire. The Thalmor _love_ this civil war. They want it continue for as long as possible, because it weakens two potential enemies--the warrior-like people of Skyrim, who would otherwise be a pain in the ass to conquer, and the Empire itself, who they _need_ weakened if they want to stand a chance against them in the next war. Even just losing the support of half the Nords within their own ranks would decimate the Imperial legions, and frankly, that's already happened now, regardless of whether the Imperials win the war or not.
The Empire doesn't need to have received secret reparations in the war to feel it necessary to send gold to the Jarls, even if they are in the economic trashbin.
You hit the nail on the head, the Thalmor want the war to last as long as it can. If Ulfric wins, and manages to make a *new* alliance with the Empire(an offer the Empire would be foolish to refuse), even in secret, then Skyrim can aid the Empire as an ally, not a subject.
Either way the war ends, the Thalmor would have a fair bit of trouble. Especially if there is even the slightest bit of growing decention in the Dominion(even Altmer hate the Thalmor, then there's the Bosmer, and the Thalmor better have a firm grip on those Two Moons, otherwise there go the Khajit). If there is enough growing decention within the Dominion against the Thalmor, at the same time the LDB ends the Civil War(either way), and through the LDB, helps forge an alliance against the Thalmor, then the Thalmor would need an Oblivion Crisis to save them from destruction.
But, I could be wrong☺.
Actually it does make sense in beyond Skyrim because the church of talks was converted to the church of Martin septim. This pissed off the dominion because they’re of the same bloodline.
Church of Talos*
after finishing the civil war questline you should be able to kill the imposing sides camps including the legates instead of them still being marked as essential characters
Could you do a video on what the imperials think about the outlaw of talos worship. In oblivion everyone was always saying “thank talos” but in Skyrim the imperials don’t seem to care anymore
The Imperials would keep it to themselves. They're not the kind of idiots who start and yell about it, after all, that gets the Thalmor on your heels. The whole reason the Thalmor are in Skyrim is because the Empire drew too much attention to not enforcing the ban in Skyrim; and by that I mean, unlike the ''we just don't enforce it, worship all you like'' atitude they used to have, Ulfric forced them to go ''Everyone has free Talos worship in Markarth!''.
Moosca that's not true at all you can hear legate rikke saying something about talos I forgot what though and even an imperial supporter in markarth has a talos shrine and amulet and it doesn't end there in markarth there's even a public but hidden shrine so yes they believe in talos but they worship talos in secret
Great video man, I think you know what video I wanna see, one on the graybeards of Skyrim
I wonder how would the Roman empire at the hight if their power would square up against the Dominion, I think of this because the imperials are undoubtibly based off the Romans. My guess is that they would put up quite the fight against the elven scum
Different universes... The thalmor have to cast a few spells and the romans will probably shit themselves not understanding what is going on
The Roman’s would have won, unlike the empire in elder scrolls they weren’t cowards. Just look at Carthage they lost hundreds of thousands of men and still persevered.
@@IssasHusband magic would probably scare them some and make a few routs at least at start but afterwards they probably just treat it as like catapults or powerful ranged troops.
Though if we’re putting Rome in their world they would likely try and get their own Mages and train people in magic. If you want to see how that go look at Roman’s trying to sail during the carthage wars it didn’t go great for quite awhile.
@@damackabet.4611 I wrote that comment 2 years ago my guy lmao
Insomnia Team representing! Thanks for the video man!
Would you be able to do another video on more of the lesser known races of Tamriel? The Minotaurs? Kothringi? Giants? etc.
First time watching, great vid!! Will have to check out your other vids
Worth noting that Ulfric was actually working for the Thalmor, and was a cooperative asset for them until the Markarth Incident, meaning that much of his disruptive behavior *must* be interpreted as the Thalmor purposefully sewing discord within the empire's borders and trying to push for civil unrest that will weaken the empire before the next great war.
Read the dossier again and this time pay more attention you illiterate mongrel.
After ww1 did it make sense for germany to pay reparations?
12:38 That noise scared the shit out of me! I was just dosing off 😑
The Thalmor want to "dismantle" Talos. Heh.
Which videos of yours talk about the empire ramifications of winning? I'm in the midst of creating a deep dive civil war video and I'd love to hear your views on it
Our biggest mistake for sure. We will push back the thalmor!
But it makes sense that Thalmor is in Bruma in BS:B, since it citizens are mainly nord.
The Legion in Cyrodiil is never recorded to have broken Concordat terms. The one in Skyrim did. The entire reason why the Thalmor are enforcing the Concordat in Skyrim is because they found out the Empire was breaking the terms of the Concordat there.
+The Forgotten Hero
That was limited to an Embassy, they weren't treaty enforcers yet.
+Thorus Zwolf
Not quite. Only Delphine believes it, and Delphine is not a reliable source for pretty much anything. Of course, you dislike this fact.
the White Gold Concordat is extremely cruel but Emperor Titus did his best to reclaim the Imperial City during the battle of the red ring, making the treaty less harsher than it should be.
Hello. I heard that White Gold Concordat bans alsow Mages Guild. Its tgat true?
No thats not the concordat, the guild never really got banned but dissolved after the oblivion crisis, splitting between the synod and college of whispers factions. I reccomend my (really old) video on the mages guild for the full story
You know skyrim logo ? Its cracked Imperial logo. So.. yeah.. its meaning the weakened empire
I would suggest that the Thalmor wanted some peace or contributes (maybe). I could be completely wrong but here in America in the year 1846 to 48 there was a war against Mexico and America over land like Texas and Arizona. The war was short and I'm not going to get so far into that, America won the war against Mexico (could've just kept the land or whatever happened) instead America after the war still Payed Mexico for the property of the land and I would suggest maybe equal or contributions. Possibly alliance even temporarily as the Thalmor is doing
Does the concordat forbid alliances with Talos-worshipping nations? I'm assuming it does but if it didn't then couldn't the empire ally itself with an independent Talos-worshipping Skyrim?
Instead of a pentius oculatus agent it should be a member of the blades. Pentius Oculotus came after the war
If the emperor negotiated the treaty to not ban talos worship in exchange for thlamor paying less $$$ to them then stormcloaks would've never happened
The Thalmor never had to pay anything. The Dominion had the upper hand, the Empire was in no position to make demands.
5:40 maybe to secretly weaken the empire to start a civil by funding it ?
I feel like you’re missing importation geopolitical approximations of weakening the economic strength of a regional hegemon and rival, it substantially reduces their ability to invest in public or in this case feudal or private, infrastructure or raising a substantial militant threat - less money for the empire - less chance of direct and indirect conflict as long as the economy is made dependent and maintains a reasonable quality of life
What about the Thalmor in Solstheim? I understand the Thalmor wanting to go to Skyrim to stomp out Talos, but why Solstheim?
Wasn't that just to learn the secrets of stalhrim? And they weren't there officially. Besides, Solstheim is part of Morrowind
It's easy keep the empire's coffers low so they cannot afford and uprising
Great take
In the name of the Jarl STOP RIGHT THERE!!!111
Imperial knowledge, should you kill Titus mede or destroy the Dark Brotherhood?
By the way where do you get that intro music
Haha! I also just made a video about this. Great choice Imperial Knowledge!
Had no idea! Sorry, had not heard of your channel before. Sorry!
I did check out your channel and subbed, that video is quite nice :)
No worries! My channel is very new. Thank you for subscribing :D
Do you have photoshop? If so you could try and make some cool thumbnails. Your two videos themselves look cool but they lack a "youtube style" thumbnail, if you get what I am talking about. With the title of your video on your thumbnail, that can really sometimes grab the attention of any potential viewers. Since people less often click on a video with just a screenshot.
No critisim, just a suggestion :)
Yes, I completely agree that a custom thumbnail is more attractive to viewers. Up until yesterday, for some reason I previously assumed that a channel required a certain amount of subscribers to upload custom thumbnails but I was completely wrong, haha. I will be changing their thumbnails here soon.
Koocai Nice! Looking forward to it!
It actually makes sense that the Dominion would pay reparations. It’s common in our world that reparations would be paid. The only thing different is that there wasn’t a specific winner or loser.
People can say the Empire lost the war due to the Dominion-favored Treaty, but the demands made for the Hammerfell territory were already under Dominion control. Imperial Knowledge brings up a good point that the Empire did leave troops behind as well. Think of it more as a Cold War. The US had troops in Korea and Vietnam, but the US wasn’t at war. It was a hotspot. I can elaborate more if needed.
But overall, the reparations makes sense, the Dominion and Empire had no idea what was next at the time of the treaty. If the Dominion had the resources, this would have zero impact on then.
Anyone ever told you you sound strikingly like Farengar?
If Thalmor paid Skyrim's jarls gold then they did it to start a rebellion against the Empire. It's obvious, they demand to reject the cult of Talos what makes proud Nords angry (As Tiber Septim know also as Talos was Nord not as you said in one of the films breton). And then they support Skyrim in rebelion. Skyrim was never as rich as south, and as you said you need gold to go on war. If you play with the Stormcloaks and attack General Tulius he says to Ulfric something like" You know that Thalmor wanted this?". On the first glympse they supported the enemy but in overall they had weaken the Empire greatly :)
The fact that the Imperial Jarls pretty much have to be at Elenwen's party doesn't exactly disprove that the Thalmor has carte blanche in Empire lands.
And try to see the Talos ban from a religious perspective. Having been allowed to 'secretly' worship wasn't good enough.
bUt dUdE bEyoNd sKyRiM iS cAnOn
Good video.
This Great War is well written!
12:00 Man I understand why you're so mad but it's funny how Beyond Skyrim is so good to the point where people think its canon 😭
The Do inion might have wanted the money for reparations for what Talos and the Numidium did to them
Dominion *
Nice video
Hello Farangar
Alec is that you?
Who is alec
Imperial Knowledge you sound like a character called Alec from a show called the lyosacs
Ahh
Good video
I think the Aldmeri Dominion wanted the payment to keep the Empire weak or make it weaker.
If this speculation is true, i think the concordant was completely worth it. You cant really control the tribes of hammerfell in its civil-war state anyway at this time and I wouldnt care too much about the ban of Talos worship. Yes, Talos united Tamriel and even is said to have achieved chim, but he not more of a divine than Vivec and Alessia IMO
Why was the empires economy so bad before the war
NOTIFACTION SQUAD FK YEAHH THALMOR
lots of Skybabies on here play morrowind in it you meet Talos or wolf as he is known there the Empire must fall in order to build it anew as it has multiple times in tamrelic history
the most important issue is the wish of the Thalmor on destroying Mundos, thats why they want to banish Talos wich is one of the world anchors...
Are there any ingame sources for that?
Didn't they give Skyrim money to appease them for the whole Talos ban? I figured it was to avoid a Civil War in the first place. And I doubt the Dominion paid anything. They clearly won the war (it's addressed as the Empire surrendering), I'd even say they dominated the war since the Empire is so desperate to avoid another one that even decades later, they've reduced themselves to licking the Thalmor's boots and are willing to risk losing one of their provinces out of fear of border security. Meanwhile the Dominion clearly doesn't care if they go to war again, they're practically baiting the empire into doing it.
With how much effort they've put into the Talos ban, I don't think conquering or destroying the empire ever mattered that much. All that matters is removing Talos worship. Everything else is just a bonus. If it was about conquering or destroying the empire, I don't think they would have ever given them the choice to begin with.
Dude, no one says that beyond skyrim is canon.
Back when it released there were a shit ton of people who saw it as canon. At least in my comment section.
@@ImperialKnowledge Oh man that must've sucked, what kind of screwed logic were they operating on? I do agree with you lore wise about that thing you were saying by the way.
Well i remember them mostly jusy saying “what are you saying its different in game” and then they talked about BS instead of the official game
I still think the empire could've won if they kept fighting.
Nope, it wouldn't and it's confirmed.
@@javierslytherin9898 all evidence points to the empire being able to win, such as the redguards fighting off the dominion, or the retaking of the imperial city. The empire never had to go to summerset it just had to hold its lands and potentially reclaim the continent from any thalmor Allies.
I think the Empire could have retaken Hammerfell but once they get to Elsweyr or Valenwood and need to go through that environment they'd be fucked. Especially if the Dominion started making deals with the Daedra like their ancestors did considering the fact they already had 1 daedric artifact that they used to dominate most of the war in Cyrodill
I think The Empire made the right move sigining The White Gold Concordant. I mean The Aldmeri Dominion and The Empire were both beaten pretty badly and if they kept fighting they'd probably have wiped each other out. So in my opinion the White Gold Concordant was the best move at the time as both sides of the war were pretty beaten.
If I was mede I would rather have my head on a spike in summerset. No way would I bow before a elf and betray my Empire.
Spanish Inquisition.
Ok?
What?
Oh, I didn't expect that
It would be smart for the Thalmor to drive a wedge between Hammerfell/Skyrim and The Empire. Those two provinces are basically the muscle and sword of The Empire. Ulfric was a tool. He must die for the sake of Mankind which is propped up by The Empire.
what fucking accent is this
Dutch
Imperial Knowledge I thought you were russian lmao