My favorite race swapped character design is Domino from Deadpool 2. The original is white with a random black eye spot. The movie version is black with a white spot (correct domino colors) and her eye spot is because of vitiligo, which was such a clever design choice. Both are cool, but the movie ver feels more thought out than the comic version.
Well, dominoes come in both colours, but I agree the Vitiligo makes way more sense and is way more visually interesting. She looked awesome. Better character so far, too.
14:59 it’s funny that you showed a clip of Nick Fury cuz I actually didn’t know he was originally white for like the longest time. I’m just so used to seeing Samuel L Jackson play him so well I literally can’t imagine anything else lol
The history behind this is funny. So Nick Fury is white, and has been forever. Then Marvel made The Ultimate universe, which is an alternate universe from the main with more modern interpretations of characters. In that universe, Nick Fury is not only Black, but is modeled after Samuel Jackson. Samuel Jackson saw this in a comic and questioned Marvel about it, and when the MCU was being formed, they drew muktiple elements from both mainline Marvel and the Ultimate universe. Samuel Jackson Nick Fury was decided.
@@bipolarewok with other words: the artist of these comics wanted to see Jackson play Nick Fury and did what he could do to achieve the goal... and succeeded.
Enjoying the video! I want to offer a small correction: Talocan is based on/connected to Maya people who are North and Central American. South American indigenous groups are different from Maya with different languages traditions etc. we all do share a history of getting bulldozed by colonizers, but yeah. Mesoamerican is a much better term, which you used in the video too.
@@zainmudassir2964 Does that include the royalty and sacrifice of poor commoners? I am in awe of so much of mezo american civilizations. But history is filled with monsters and hierarchies of violence. latin america, africa and asia are no different.
One of the things about people saying "Just make your own characters" right now that makes it seem so disingenuous to me is presently a vast vast VAST amount of money in the entertainment industry is going for reboots and nostalgia. There's absolutely minority creators making new and exciting minority stories, but the big pockets won't show up for new and exciting risks; they want old and reliable reboots with a built in audience. A lot of these properties are iconic, but they're also old, and their characterization and character choices still reflect the writers' rooms of those times. When someone wants to bar any change in race for "iconic" characters, they're basically saying cis white straight people get the top 6 billion dollars of industry effort, and everyone else gets the bottom 100 million. It's naive (or, in many cases, being deliberately obtuse) to pretend a black person trying to pitch a brand new black superhero is going to be sitting on the same playing field as anyone pitching a superman of any race let alone white. It doesn't matter how exceptional the black creator's project is, it doesn't have the weight of fandom history and so won't get the same results.
You captured this so damn well here. And it's literally not about Black creatives pitching poor new characters. As good as it can be the executives still wouldn't care. They wanna re-do same iconic characters.
I mean to be fair no character will be as popular as Superman or any of the major heroes, it's the problem with that argument, ofcourse you won't be able to make a character as popular as the most iconic superheroes ever, at least not right away, but that's true whether it be a person of color or other wise.
you expressed my thoughts perfectly. whenever I hear that argument I scoff because they clearly do not understand this system and how hard it is to get characters to actually resonate with audiences in a meaningful way that translates to sales. At the end of the day this is a business and money always talks and bs walks. Hell thinking about the actual amount of characters who are not of european descent and caucasion presenting in the comics versus those who are not some race bending is inevitable especially as the fast majority of characters who make up most of the long standing cast of Superheroes who have withstood the test of time are white. if we stuck to what is in some books the cast would be so overwhelming white. Hell Bane is Latin American and Talia Al Ghul is middle eastern descent and you see what happened to them in Dark Knight Rises. Still though if Dwayne McDuffie was still alive you can bet DC would have had him handling Milestone movies. Static would have been on the big screen.
Well see the problem is that if we accept swaps because it's too hard to create a new character, than we lower our standards for consuming art and as a result end up leaving a lot of characters on the shelves. It's a shortcut if anything and an excuse for us not to even try because it'll be too hard for audiences to like something that's new and different.
Not a fan of the word "people of color" its pretty much another word for colored person and basically says that white is the default and everyone else is the other. I don't think the problems will disrepair by having more non white writers, the focus should instead be on creating new ethnic minority characters that has a interesting power set and lore first, then after they are establish then we can have a story arc's that's about the real world struggles. It feels like most new ethnic minority characters first story arc are all about the real world struggles and then that's all that they are known for.
@@minops999 I would be inclined to agree with you Linguistically, but it is the term that most people use in academia. The term is much like how the term indigenous peoples, is flawed, as human kind is indigenous to Africa (as far as is currently hypothesized); since People of Color, have largely chosen to use the term "People of Color" to represent themselves as a group, as a sign of respect I try to use that term too. But you keep using language however you want, I wont try to stop you.
Agreed as I was watching this video I was thinking back to the CW crisis on infinite Earths event where black lightning meets John Diggle. Black lightning within the crossover event is tonally different then he is on his own show. When he has the exchange with diggle (which is only one exchange by the way) It is a simple line in the most cliche moment that screams white people had to force two black characters to talk. Had a black writer been in that room. They could have had a simple interaction that would have been no more than 30 seconds and it would have been more authentic than black lightnings entire time during that event.
The sequel might even offer a better opportunity. With his rise to Commissioner, he becomes fully disenchanted because he now has the power and elevation to see how much he CAN'T accomplish. How much the system WON'T change. At his level in the first film, he could describe it with the classic "if only we had the RIGHT people calling the shots" instead of seeing the institutional nature of the problem.
I get what you’re saying but honestly I’ve grown so sick of the typical Batman status quo that I’m desperate for a Gotham that WILL change and you can list of all the realistic hurdles you want and that’ll still be my end goal. Just me
@Cdr2002 nah, I can get behind that. Might be an interesting story to see how it gets worse before it gets better. And since movies have a more self contained reality, it's got a better framework for having an ending where Gotham just GETS BETTER. Batman finally wins. It can suck again in the inevitable reboot.
@@hartthorn yeah I would like that very much. There’s a lot about Batman I think needs to change. The utter hopelessness of Gotham’s situation in contemporary takes is one of the big ones, along with the mental health stuff (have Arkham burn to the ground and keep it gone permanently)
@Cdr2002 yeah, the whole conception of Arkham as "it's prison, but for WEIRDOS. Also it's terrible at BEING a prison." Has long outlived its charm. Would be great to see rehabilitation actually work. Harvey gets mentally better, even while still bearing his scars. Mad Hatter tech gets repurposed for specialized therapy.
@@hartthorn absolutely. The revolving door of villains who never get better despite how redeemable several of them are is just a tiring thing for me. I like your ideas! Competent mental help could also facilitate the transitions that characters like Harley, Ivy, Clayface, and Freeze make to antiheroes or allies of the Bat Family in some iterations like DC Rebirth and the later Arkham games
Black Wesker in the recent Resident Evil Neflix series was a hard pill to swallow because his Aryan Ideal design in the games made perfect sense considering the eugenics-centric goals of Umbrella... Besides, the trench coat and shades just made Lance Reddick look like he was cosplaying Blade...
@@Rubrick23. The show implied Resident Evil 1-5 happened and people in the show were surprised he was still alive because of his confrontation with Chris & the lava. Since they were the same person, the games do in fact matter. (Despite this Lance Reddick was the best part of that show, but thats because he is Lance Reddick)
@@15thCrypt I wish WTRC was a TV series instead and we got Lance Riddick wesker as their wesker. The wesker in WTRC is so bad but their Claire and Chris was pretty spot on. 😭 Jill I okay. Like they should've given her a Bob or a wig. 90s fashion sense it was way more common for black women with curly hair to have straight and relaxed hair. But honestly even if Jill looked accurate and they kept her black French-Japanese mix in her character it still would've been awful, cause the actress was barely given anything good dialogue to say or do. Just a bigger background character than fucking Brad in the movie. If we had gotten a show for WTRC, at least Jill wouldvr had time to do something. It's just so sad that they broke up all the good bits they had and made two mediocre products.
I like the idea you brought up regarding Gordon & Batman to have a heart to heart during one of their meet ups at the bat signal. I think one way to extend on that idea is the portrayal of Gordon’s reaction to the Maroni case. During their conversation about Coulson, he tells Batman he worked the Maroni & wonders why he’s not targeted by the Riddler & of course Batman tells him it’s because he’s not corrupt. It could’ve lead into Gordon talking about the hours/days/weeks he spent working with Coulson on that case, having to jump thru hoops to get the right people to work with, the frustration he felt going by the book when other officers were willing to take shortcuts to get the necessary resources. Then he could say how elated he felt when Maroni was arrested, giving him hope that not only can the system work but it was a win he needed to reassure him of his convictions. Only to have the rug swept under him when he & Batman discover, while following Penguin, that it was all for nothing & the change Gordon was wanted ended up being another empty promise.
I am writing a book where the main cast that are human are POC and I love just editing with stuff like culture in mind. It really helps me feel like I’ve created someone real when I can shake my head and say “no they wouldn’t do that”
@@futurestoryteller I think it’s more nobody cares about my musing introspection. Though as someone who reads more about people and culture then talks to them I definitely can say it’s very different depending on the group as to how people react to cultural literacy
For me what matters the most with raceswaps is intent. It was a creative choice to change Namor to connect his story to the real world and it worked perfectly. On the other hand with stuff like the Velma raceswaps its clear they only happened to create marketing through controversy. And I have no tolerance for things like that.
Very much like the video. I think it was Jesse gender and another gay creator that pointed out that Gunn still has a few blind spots when it comes to the gay representation at least on the male side but hopefully he consults and does good with DC
I mean anyone will have horse blinders on for some cultural aspects, but as she says, you just gotta have a good crew and know how to defer to them. He seems good at that. It's all about having... A Justice League 😂
WRT Wednesday, it felt to me like we were in an alternate universe where racism never happened and was replaced by bigotry against outcasts... all the scenes in the past dealt with people's bigotry against the "outcasts" rather than bigotry against Indigenous people for example. I remember one of the characters even saying "We were here before you". I thought she meant Indigenous people but then context shows she's talking about Outcasts. It was super weird.
Bringing up Magneto is a weird situation, since Jews are often Shroedinger's White and the MCU has really seemed to erase a lot of Jewish characters and Jewishness. (Also, Magneto could be made Mizrahi or Sephardic) One thing I find interesting is racebending in historical and fantastical contexts, because the audience has expectations brought in from real life that might not have existed in the world the work is set in (ex how black characters would be viewed centuries before the Atlantic slave trade or Latino actors playing human looking aliens on a completely alien world). For history there has to be a ton of research into the exact era and views, but fantasy can easily use the equivalent of 'I don't see color' in that 'this world color doesn't exist' while not engaging with what the audience will bring into it.
I just want to say, thank goodness for Ryan Coogler. A Ryan-Coogler-directed X-Men would also have the hope of being the original metaphor that the comics were (the Civil Rights Movement). Can you imagine his Magneto (Malcolm X to Xavier’s MLK, per the original metaphor), given how he’s characterized his villains thus far? 🔥 I’m confident it’d be fire if Disney/Marvel allows him to have his way as they did with Wakanda Forever. He’s a sure hand at this point. Slightly peripheral but connected, thanks to him and his team in how they’ve realized Wakanda/Black Panther for the big screen without compromising on the blackness (Wakanda _is_ an isolated, uncolonized African nation, after all), I can hope for an unambiguously black Storm in the future. Nothing against the actresses that played her before (and I really like Halle), but there are so many gorgeous, darker-skinned, fully black actresses who would set that role on fire! Mame-Anna Diop would be a great choice, or Yetide Badaki or, if much younger, there is a long list of actresses who are *ready* for the role.
The MLK-Malcolm X thing is actually a misconception. Charles and Magneto were actually based on Jewish leaders David Ben-Gurion and Menachem Begin. The MLK-Malcolm X idea is more known because of the civil rights movement (and maybe it's easier to make a connection with the similar names: Professor X, Malcolm X) I like your casting choices. More darker skinned black actresses should be given roles and the opportunity to shine. A new Storm with Ryan Coogler's eye and Marvel's budget would be fantastic (Sorry for the annoying "um actually, you're wrong" comment, I just learned about this recently and many people don't know.)
@@breadtunes Probably not if it's in the MCU though. The MCU literally robbed Wanda of her identity (A jewish-romani immigrant (with a holocaust survivor father) adjusting to america) by replacing everything that makes her her with a white woman who's into american sitcoms and has one INCREDIBLY poor made up accent she loses as soon as she can. Also made some gross comments towards Romani culture. Modern movies in general like to avoid any reference to their character inspirations, like taking Superman, a character made by jewish creators inspired by Moses and the golem, and replace him with christian Jesus imagery. Comics are filled with this stuff, Captain America was a super man created to fight Nazis by Jewish writers, he was created as a literal modern day golem. Mutants were created as stand-ins for oppressed minorities but nowadays bigots lose their mind if minorities are included. I'm scared for an X-men movie that tackles the politics they were created to tackle because the "including minorities is woke" crowd is just so bloodthirsty.
"Ryan Coogler-directed X-Men" is the sweetest phrase I didn't know I needed to see in a comment. Thank you for bringing this fantastic idea into my awareness. I now am going to feverishly hope for this outcome sometime soon down the road.
@@breadtunes Both videos are really good! I'm glad people make them. We need accurate history and respect for them now more than ever. Thanks for pointing them out!
11:39 i was introduced to Namor as a character in Exiles with an AU version of him who was blue skinned and named Namora so when I saw his OG comic design I was kinda taken aback. I haven’t seen this movie but from what I’ve heard it’s like it’s adding backstory to the Atlanteans in a way I haven’t seen before in Marvel and I really like that.
Maybe that comic did something different and did make Namora a Namor AU, but as far as I know Namora is just Namor's sister or cousin. And she's blue like all the other Atlanteans. I think it's pretty cool they took a pretty standard and overdone Atlantis society and added an interesting rarely seen cultural spin to it.
I think the problem is caused by a segregated writing staff. Hiring black writers in numbers large enough to prevent racist peer pressure to hate their own kind would prevent "miss" black characters.
As a middle aged white dude who grew up reading comics, my take on it is this...I just want the best possible actors in the roles, when they come to the screen. Yes, almost all of the heroes were drawn white back then, but that's just ink on a page. Bringing them to life is different. I love Jim Gordon, for example. So much so that I'm furious that McFarlane Toys stubbornly refuses to make any Gordon action figures. I thought Gary Oldman was perfect casting, and I still do. And when Jeffrey Wright was cast, what did I think? I was excited, because Jeffrey Wright is great in everything he does. And once I saw the movie? Wright is perfect casting. Just as perfect as Oldman. I don't care about his skintone...he brought one of my favorite characters to life in a way that I fully and instantly recognize. Had some casting director decided he couldn't play Gordon because of the color of his skin, we'd have lost one of the very best Jim Gordon portrayals in the 80-year history of Batman media. And I'm not cool with that. Pale skin is not a characteristic that I consider foundational to most white comic book characters. Honestly, I think 'wrong skin color' is, in the vast majority of cases, as silly an argument as 'wrong eye color.' It doesn't hurt James Bond to cast an actor with blue eyes, and it doesn't hurt James Gordon to cast an actor with darker skin.
Another thing: we can make characters mixed! A character being Black doesn’t mean they can’t have other cultural heritage. I thought mixed Black Canary was one of the best takes on her character *ever* in the BOP movie.
True that. As a mixed person I really appreciate mixed race comic book characters, like for example Dick Grayson (whose mom was Romani), or Selina Kyle (who is Irish and Cuban)
@La'Ron Readus Also he's Jewish, not white. As are basically all the other "white" creators you mentioned. Yes, there are Jews who can pass as white, but that doesn't make us white, and we're reminded of it constantly if we step anywhere outside of a major city (not to mention I've dealt with tons of antisemitism at work and on the subway). If we were "white" my father's sister wouldn't have been murdered.
@@awesomeallyse as a black person who was raised by a white mom, I really hope she knows how to work with their daughters hair. My mom took time to learn how to braid. It was a good bonding time
8:16 I feel the same way. I don't think you could have a white dude play Storm, T'Chala or Static as race and their culture are so tied to who they are and for their respective significance to comics as a whole. I feel the same about religion, like Ben Grimm should always be Jewish.
Wow. Fabulous episode. I just finished it. I wanna thank you for not only highlighting Batman '89, but just for talking about a comic book. I sometimes feel frustrated, as a comic book maker and fan, how so many youtubers talk endlessly about comic book adaptations and never about the books themselves. Real cool moment. Real cool book. I got it for my boyfriend for Christmas.
Meso-America is part of Central America, not South America. And Central America is a subcontinent of North America. As many Americans hate the idea of sharing a continent with Mexico down to Panama, they are still part of North America. Also this is early in the video but I do love how the video started and brought up the idea of how race-swapping can make a whole new interesting ideas, for the characters who's race really doesn't play a part of who they are. Not to mention, of all types and versions of characters for different universes, I don't know why they should stop at animal verisons of characters but not changing up their race.
You were so close but an A for effort. Mexico is North America not as a part of the centra american subcontinent but just North America, Central America begins with Guatemala and ends with Panama. Meso Americans extend as far as northern Mexico and touches down to Costa Rica, making it a region in north and central america.
Not being familiar with your work, I was really worried that this video was going to be a conservative take on how race swapping in media was bad but you actually approached the whole conversation from an angle that was refreshing and added so much more to the conversation than what I've seen in the current discourse.
Completely agreed on everything. I especially appreciated the shout out to Batman '89 at the end. While parts of it don't work for me, I loved how they handled Robin and Two-Face and how the race-swapping wasn't just skin-deep. It's too bad all of that nuanced was drowned out by complaints about it being "too woke" or how it didn't feel authentic to Burton's Batman.
I just want to say thank you for sharing your perspectives. This was a really good video and I learned a lot more about the nuances of race swapping. I wonder why, if Hollywood has become so capable of having like therapists and consent specialists on set for their films and TV shows, white writers, directors and producers seem so incapable of including POC perspectives to inject more nuance.
I just disagree that Gordon was a missed. Just because he is tackling the wrongs of cops doesn't mean he isn't a good race swapped. Plenty of black cops that do trust the system and are earnest. Come on now. This is just so narrow in how to view things.
I gotta disagree about Namor. His Vegeta energy is necessary and justified. Characters that facilitate conflict are some of the best characters imo. Having characters only be dumb, grumpy, or quippy is kinda annoying and it's getting boring.
The problem is is since most writers are white Caucasian and straight. They don’t know how to write for African-Americans and LGBTQ. So they do a cheap move and try to replace a long time hero / villain, or supporting character, and that kind of messes up their history. To fix this problem, I think writers need to learn how to write for African-Americans and LGBTQ leave the characters as their original race etc…, and just create more new characters.
Here's an example of how you do racwbending well. Happily Ever After Fairy Tales for Every Child. Firstly it was done back when racebending was a genuine attempt at reo rather than a trend to get money and purposefully rile up PoC who hated white people or considered poc who disagreed with them traitors (like me, I am considered a traitor and even have had the white in reality conspiracy thrown at me). HEA changes the entire setting of the story and does it in a meaningful, natural way that doesn't feel condescending or insulting or pressuring. You could tune in and never knew what you'd get. African Beauty and the Beast? Ditto. Chinese Little Red Riding Hood? Ditto. Brazilian Thumbelina? Ditto. Alaskan Snow Queen? Korean Little Mermaid and Princess and the Pea? Creole Rapunzel? Native American Snow White? All Ditto. It was glorious.
The same reason all the other writing parts? Listen, I enjoyed Wednesday but I was warned that Burton can't write black characters because they don't "fit his aesthetic" and that the romance, if you can call it that, was atrocious. It became an unintentional comedy whenever they tried making a romance moment. Each girl getting TWO poorly written male love interests sounds like it was written in 1998 😅Guy freaking out how Wednesday is sending "mixed signals" when she just needs a car to go hunt a mystery will never not be hilarious to me. It's a school about outcasts and monsters and not a single one is an actual real world outcast (black, gay, trans, disabled) except for Bianca who is the school bully. Bianca has potential for an interesting arc but... Wednesday is kind of a mess
I love the 90s Addams Family movies (moreso Addams Family Values -- Debbie remains the moment), but I've not watched this. I keep hearing that it's mess in that regard, and maybe I'm weird, but I'm a black person who'd rather we not be included if it's not done well. There _was_ a story that they could have told about self-hate, but to have Morticia deliver that line without _at least_ a response from the guy, even something as generic as, "I understand more than you know," is *ridiculous* ! It's got WB/CW written ALL over it. And given all the racist stuff I've heard about WB/CW, it sounds very on-brand. Netflix, girl,... Tenoch Huerta, Namor himself, has spent years speaking up/out (even now) about racism and colorism in Mexico/South America. He *literally* wrote a book on it! So, to have a white Latina say that to a black character...were they intentionally being inflammatory or were they that stupid? I'd rather have seen an adult Wednesday Addams show with Christina Ricci. Why block the chick who used to make those shorts on YT, and why have Christiana play Lizzie Borden (anyone else remember that show?) if they weren't gonna do something like that? Not trying to get rid of a Latino-focused show (and at least they actually got proper depth), but do right by everyone, or at least make an attempt. SMH
@@HotDogTimeMachine385 Tim Burton lost me when he said that. I grew up on the guy's films and they were partly why I became interested in the goth subculture. To this day, Batman Returns remains my favorite Batman movie. But someone needs to show him Marley, the Glam Goth or something (and she's not the only one), because, baby, black folks can slay _any_ subculture. I say this as a former Gothic Lolita. 💅🏾 He gives, "I didn't grow up around, nor choose to currently live around, 'blacks'" vibes, unfortunately. He's trying to tell us that black folks couldn't have even fit his weird non-gothic aesthetics? Okay, Tim. Then Netflix turned around and created this mess.
@@breadtunes That specific line was included in this video. Morticia tells the Black mayor "men like you don't understand what it's like to not be believed" But also like, pretty much all of the Black characters were villains with considerable social capital.
My only issue with your video is that not all people have their personalities and behavior influenced by their ethnicity. Like Wednesday listening to Spanish music is cool, but she doesn't have to. I don't listen to rap or r&b every time I'm chilling. Also, there are minorities whose experiences aren't the same as others. I was part of a police Q & A at an HBCU and was surprised at how diverse the responses were. When one black student talked about their negative interactions with the cops, a good amount of us, including myself disagreed in sharing those thoughts. It was also clear that our experiences mostly differed because of our living environments. I live in a very diverse suburb neighborhood; where white people are the minority. Very few, if any, in my neighborhood have had a bad interaction with the cops. So I found it difficult to relate, and it was the same for those that did have consistent bad interactions. So in general, I agree that there should be more effort to make characters more distinct, when it comes to ethnicity and culture. I just don't think it should be all the time, or can be done to varying degrees, because then it could seem like everyone that looks like the actor or from that culture is the same and has the same experience.
I'm 100% against changing Magneto BECAUSE he's already representation for Jews like myself. There's plenty of reasons why Magneto's age isn't a problem just by looking at the comics and different factors that exist there. As for Professor X? I've actually argued he should be Black (or whichever minority but I think Black would be more poignant) so I'm really hoping the Giancarlo Esposito rumors end up being true. He would be AMAZING. I totally agree about Namor. I always hated him in the comics and that goes even beyond whether he looked White or whatever. He was suggest a misogynistic asshole. I loved him in the MCU though, so much more deep of a character and Atlantis always felt more like an afterthought for him whereas it felt important for Aquaman
Also, before someone says something like, "but some Jews are POC". Yes, I'm aware of that but not all of us are and I'd rather not think my representation has to be changed because being a White Presenting Jew is considered bad because we happen to look like White People. Totally bring out more JOC though. Also, I find it incredibly problematic to want to erase the Holocaust past when we have so many people trying to erase the Holocaust already in the world
How can Magneto be jewish and have the same trauma factors triggering his eventual path since the MCU is in like the late 2020s now? It will take years to introduce him and by that point he'd have to be over 100 to have been in a holocaust as a kid.
@@imthestein the important factor of Magneto is his Jewish heritage, his white skin is irrelevant he could’ve gone through the same experiences had he been literally any other race + jewish in WWll Germany. Your point doesn’t stand
The only iteration that is 100% confirmed to be SELINA KYLE is Sanaa Lathan's portrayal of her in the Harley Quinn animated series. The Halle Berry and Eartha Kitt versions while Catwoman are not Selina Kyle, which was the initial focus made for the video.
My only problem i guess is that it almost always feels like I should like a character because they are a POC it just feels like a “here take this and shut up”
I think the issue with making Magneto, specifically, a black character (or at least an African-American character) is that his backstory as a holocaust survivor is both very important to his character and not continuous with the struggles he and/or other mutants face in America. With an African-American Magneto, I feel like there's a risk of either the character or the portrayal of the issue getting distorted by the differences between American anti-blackness and European antisemitism. I could see a Haitian Magneto potentially working, but even then I'm not totally sure. If I were going to make Magneto non-white, I think I'd go with a Rohingya or Uyghur backstory if you were bringing his backstory right up to the present, or Tibetan if you wanted a bit more of a time buffer. Or for a more radical take, you could perhaps go for a Kurdish Magneto, with almost any timeline you want.
All interesting suggestions worth working with! Still I don‘t get the argument against Blackness because the character was Jewish. Black Jews exist. A Black Jewish holocaust survivior sounds like a lot of potential for a spin on the character.
@@Alina_Schmidt The argument is more that if you make him black and do nothing else, most of your audience is going to assume that means "African American", and is also going to assume that overwrites the "holocaust survivor" backstory. A black jewish holocaust survivor could be an interesting character, and a more general exploration of the various black jewish cultures would be nice to see, but at some point we start drifting away from "Magneto". To me, the core of the character is "person radicalized by surviving widely acknowledged genocide/statelessness". There's plenty of ways to make that character nonwhite without either bending over backwards to specifically retain the original's jewishness or reductively swapping that for a different history of marginalization as if all such identities are basically the same.
As someone who likes some race-swaps and get triggered by others, I try to hear rational perspectives from both sides of the conversation, so I don't get stuck in an echo chamber. You definitely made a lot of good points 👍 if you're interested, solid arguments on the opposite side have been made by youtubers Patience Xina and Metatron.
I’m about full native and have lived on the rez most of my life and grew up on these comics. To tell the truth if Gunn decided to make Lois lane native in his new movie I might be less likely to watch it. Doesn’t make me hate myself for being native, just means I was invested in the character and didn’t see Lois’s portrayal as a native woman. Idk to each their own, everyone is free to make and consume what they want.
Loved the video but felt it was important to chime in that before raceswapping was happening on screen (or ... Even comics) it was very popular in a variety of different fandoms under the name 'racebending'. From cosplays*, to fancasts (v popular even among the relatively normie twitter crowd) or fanart. It was something that fans were clamoring for. Its pretty rare for comics to do an outright raceswap**, iris west is one that's happened thats actually stuck and instead its often a legacy character which imo is pretty different than racebending but scaremongers treat it as the same..and the same conversations happen when a legacy character is introduced people ask why they had to be connected to one of the main heros in such a big n why they couldnt just introduce a character of color whos friends w the heros but not directly connected by name or namesake or family. N idk i think the records show that when you do that the character is likely to just never come back when the writer is done with them. Hell they gave amanda waller a daughter in new 52 n she just Never came back after that run of teen titans was over and they decided that skinny amanda walller was honestly insulting (now why fat amanda waller couldnt have a kid from a maligned teen book is beyond me ) *(no im not talking about poc cosplaying white characters but for example someone cosplaying sailor moon but with long brown butterfly braids and parts of the sailor uniform replaced w fabric patterns they got from nigeria etc) ** (wallace west was one for a while until the white wally west come back so now instead of being the wally west hes wally wests cousin? Instead of being iris's cousin )
Thank you for sharing because well edited video, articulation is super and excellent advice. I was nervous because I’m not a fam of new things but this new feels good 👍🏾
EXCELLENT essay. Very thought provoking and compelling. And I love the suggestion you propose for Commissioner Gordon. I’m going to have a look at your other videos, and I’m hoping to find something on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine………Aaaaannnnd I’m back, and there’s a LOT of content here….lot’s that I’m looking forward to, but none about Commander then Captain Sisko. Pity. That series, and two episodes of it in particular, went a very long way towards squeezing my pathetically myopic understanding of these issues from white farm boy insular moron to hopefully much more aware white man who, though still a moron, at least sees some of reality. If, for whatever reason, you’ve never had room for DS9, well, I’m sure you get recommendations all the time. And yes, I’m aware that it may well look like I’m doing something thoughtless by assuming you have something to say about Sisko. But as this video more than demonstrates, you’ve taken this particular facet head on with deep and nuanced argumentation, and I’d love to hear what you had to say as regards DS9. Not to validate or demolish my own perceptions, but rather because I am certainly missing a world of ideas that would better inform my own opinions. Anyway, great video!
Im sorry. Black Panther 2 isn't the best with its Mayan characters. first off the modern Myan village they go to in the movie is full of mud huits and unpaved roads. That is an Americans idea of what those communities look like, but isn't accurate to the real thing. These communities are not un-touched, pre-industerial villages. They have modern ammedies. It is ignorant to the point of being uitentionally racist. Like if an American writer wrote a scene in Japan and they were all walking around with swords and samurai armor. Then is is really weird that Namor just like Spain invade. Also that there is nothing specific about the atlantis cultural practices that is specifically Myan outside of asthetics. And last if they did their research, the filmmakers would know that indgienes meso Americans couldn't grow facial hair.
Yeah. Also it didn’t help that namor marginalized its audience with belittling “colonizer language”. Like you use the culture as aesthetic then backslap with judging the culture’s current language. Maybe this is just me though.
I think people generally have difficulty understanding perspectives outside of their own cultural context, regardless of background. You mentioned Black creatives taking into consideration world views outside of their own successfully in the video. What are the best examples of this, I would love to check them out?
Umm one example is that made in this video. The Mesoamerican representation and even going as far as having initiated the race-swapping of the white Atlantis comic origins is such good example of Black creatives representing others well.
@@guyafrica7894 Naturally I meant besides this. After all a single anecdote is hardly representative of a broader idea. It would be like me turning around and saying look at how beloved Kung fu panda is in China and how authentically it pays homage classic Chinese cinema it must be an indication that white people do cultural representation well.
I'll actually be tackling this topic and the changes made to Orm/Ocean Master when the Aquaman sequel comes out at the end of the year, but I'd call the short of it a hit
Aquaman's dedication to Atlantis and his attitude towards the surface world always came off like extreme Nationalism. His blonde-haired, blue-eyed ass played into that perfectly. I find Mamoa to be a massive miss
Oh good, I am having difficulty understanding and refuting the whole “Race Swapping is Good/Bad,” Debate. I’ll watch this tomorrow while vacuuming! Thanks Readus!
Damn, that was *good*. Another example of "characters who don't know they are Black" that I can think of is pretty much the entirety of the TV show version of "Sleepy Hollow". Like, good ideas here and there, but holy shit what a "post-racism" liberal candy land masquerading as a "modern setting". I'm from Germany and even I managed to pick up on that. Absolutely no shade on Nicole Beharie, she is amazing and quickly became the only reason why I kept watching that show. She's so, so good.
Marvel and DC Comics have alot of different Race characters. Why can they not start using those characters? DC Jimmy Olson is white and a red head. Batwoman is white and a red head. .. You race switched them. Disney you are SO DAMN guilty all over for race switching so dang much it is sickening. Marvel has major awesome black characters. Why are you not using them? Stop race switching. Race switched the scooby-do gang. STOP INSULTING peoples races by switching races of original characters. That makes that Company Racist. Stop pitting people agents each other for your company making money from racism. If you want to put a different race in to make a movie then STOP Swapping and use one that already is there or create a new character. It is so dang simple ..If a character started out as white it should stay that way, same thing applies to black characters, how are people supposed to care if theirs characters can't stay consistent, what happens to the actual black characters, do we just forget about them? If they want diversity so badly, just make good stories around pre existing black characters, I mean why race swap when you could just make a new character the way you want. I totally agree with you on this, race swapping is just the laziest way to deal with the problem of non-white roles in film and tv.
I personally don’t care either way what color a character is…sometimes I love race swapped characters though especially when it is well thought out and has a purpose. For me I think sometimes people get worked up over nothing…but other times their complaints are completely justified. Sometimes they force things, makes no sense, and are just forcing some political narrative into a movie or series that didn’t need it.
I really liked this video. It was a good watch. I also don't know how it escaped my notice that Magneto's whole thing is the holocaust and yet somehow the character is never remotely Jewish... but now I'm annoyed about that. I'm also still deeply on the fence about whether to watch Wednesday or not, months later. Some parts look so good! And some parts look so bad...
For me when a race swap happens it brings in a sub text not in the original writings. So it automatically changes the way the character is written. Some times its a good thing, but sometimes it isn't. Like say a character like jimmy olsen what does being black due for his character? In all of the time we've seen a black jimmy olsen he's always so flat and acts nothing like the original.
While minorities are definitely more likely to portray other minorities with empathy and deep research than majorities, and while minorities across the board do better jobs at portraying other minorities, the results are not always flawless, or even great, and issues show through the cracks. Wakanda Forever can be an example, Atlanta could be an example, and so on.
You know what I would love to see? A black Punisher. Hear me out, but his character has been hijacked by a specific group of people that represent something that Frank Castle was never supposed to promote or represent. They tried to revamp him with this stupid shit with the Hand, but it just came across as forced and stupid. Frank Castle using katanas? Give me a break. But I think a black Punisher would be legitimately badass and would be a welcomed change to the character. Anyone remember Lincoln Clay from Mafia 3? He basically was black Punisher, it isn't like this can't be done. And we absolutely can incorporate his race as an aspect of his character.
I wonder if the same people who are pissy over Ariel in the Little Mermaid being black have anything to say about Morgan Freeman being a character that was originally whit in Shawshank. Or Billy Dee Williams being Harvey Dent in the Burton Batman movies (still mad we ne wr got Black Two-Face 😡).
One of my big gripes about "Man Of Steel" was the race and gender swap of Jimmy to Jenny Olsen, I thought Lawrence Fishburne was fantastic as Perry White and I think they did put thought into his character but with Jimmy/Jenny it felt like that swap was for no real reason other than to cast an Asian female in a superman movie.
My general rule of thumb for race swapping characters is "does race swapping this character enhance or bring interesting development to them or add commentary to the wider culture?" If yes, then go ahead so long as its respectful and interestingly well done. If no, then evaluate why your race swapping. If its for political woke points or to be controversial - just don't
You ignore the fact that most of the outrage is against the lack of poc in hollywood getting jobs, because they're ignored by writers, and its mostly because Hollywood thinks they can make more money by bringing in high actors. Everything about this video ignores the actual problem, which is the subjugation of poc in Hollywood. You can sprinkle in your comic references all you want, and I agree with them (I'm a comic fan too), but you're 100% ignoring the Hollywood money making mechanism.
I think Moviebob did a great job of explaining why race-flipping characters to white is fundamentally different from race-flipping away from white in the video Correctitude. Most of the complaints from the anti-SJW fake fans are simply disingenuous. They demand that we cannot have a non-white character unless there is justification for having a non-white character, but we never have to justify having a character be white. I think we all know why this is. Further, DC constantly goes through reboots. Why haven’t they done more race-flipping? Some well-to-do African-Americans agonize over whether they are doing enough to help the African American community to justify being wealthy at all. Race-flipping Batman to an African-American would give a great opportunity to explore that, while also exploring a completely different side of justice that doesn’t normally get covered in Batman comics. I think Superman works better as an immigration metaphor rather than a Jesus metaphor. Why not race-flip Superman to Latino and use the character to talk about how America-ostensibly an immigrant nation-is treating immigrants. As for race-flipping legacy characters, yes, yes, yes, yes, please. If we are going to have legacy characters at all and turn certain superheroes into titles that get passed around, then there better be some race-flipping going on. I'm not indigenous central American, so my opinion about how good or bad the portrayal of Namor was does not matter, but I liked it, and it shows that writers and directors can produce good characters that are not of the same demographic, but the comic books are full of examples of characters that did not truly get good until someone of a similar demographic took over writing duties. I think Apu from Simpsons shows that you want at least one person from the target demographic somewhere on the creative staff just to avoid possible awfulness. I think the “I don’t see color” approach to race-swapping COULD be used for interesting effect, but I have never seen an example of that. If a minority character is more or less the same as a white character, a clever writer could use that to make the minority character more sympathetic to a white audience and ease them into seeing things from another point of view by having that “interchangeable” minority character interact with his or her own community. Or at least, that is what I said for decades. We may be getting to the point where such tricks are not necessary and we can just expect white audiences to empathize with people who are different. I had the same reaction to Gordon in that movie. They missed an opportunity to use Gordon to SAY something. He is a high-ranking cop, for crying out loud. There are tons of things he should be grappling with in this day and age. The character should be used to say something about police brutality against minorities and the poor. After all, in the same movie, they used Batman to say something about the privilege of the wealthy, so why not use Batman’s close confidant to say something similar about the police and the brutality and oppression directed at African-American community? Or that said brutality is used to foment racism, which allows wealthy people like the Waynes to trick other white people into voting against their own economic self-interest. Now THAT would make for an interesting subtext.
Wakanda forever did something I thought was impossible. They did what Snyder did with Aquarium and made me actually like the character and made him kinda cool. Instead of the chod I have always thought he was. I honestly thought Namor was Asian .
I grew up being a HUGE fan of Tim Burton, ... until I read, that he didnt believe Black people fit his "aesthetics". And since, I'm fluent in racist dog whistles, I stopped watching his content. I did watch video essays about his long-awaited inclusion of Black characters in one of his projects (Wednesday) and ... 🤨🤦🏾♀️
I loved your video essay because you made a lot of great points. My only disagreement with you is about the comic book version of Namor. To me his arrogant personality was part of his appeal. Yes, he did things that were wrong and I didn't agree with them. He can be an a- hole, but a very charismatic one. He was never boring. And some of his arrogance was so over the top that it was funny. In comparison to Namor, the comic book version of Aquaman seemed like a Ken doll.
I think my favourite , has to be nick fury, becaus its just that organic. If i had to pick a fave, thats it. Wait, after daisy/sky from agents of shield, not having any whedon , ok any jos whedon involvement, thr are other whedons, but not joss. and its great daisy/sk is based on the character quake, and as cloe bennet, who is gret, is half chinese, that actually is , after the first season where she is allowed to look that part, treally well, her mom too is great. And meng na wei aka voice o mulan being another acian, through original character. And depite the haha only one black main character can b in the main cast and if another they die arly, its a really diverse show and not rassist, that weird thing aside. that later has more than one so, good. Really good. But also quak is definitly raceswapped by allowing chloe look asian. And really good inbuild with her family, that plays a big role, Also she is a great superhero growing into it. An may the opthe muscle, is allowed to be more than th admitedly badass she is, but explore trauma,. and them bonding. Daisy/skye really best argumently raceswapped. Also ther is a good black gordon. And i know nolans are kinda colourblind, but non the less that has some good takes there. And yes caviezel is an awful human being, but a good actor, here he is as great batman actor. Anyways carter is great, and she wasnt fridged, sh lt for power, and it really left an impact on the entire show, that is felt. And the boss of the polic mafia there, is a vblack guy, for what its worth. An he is a black woman who is an ex soldier, which is very gordon. And tries to be the best ion th corrupt police . Also she inspirs the very bullock fusco, who too is great. An yes there i the police mafia that is then busted, but the police i never actualy shopwn as the good guys, lie later they are used by another treat. What i say operson of interst is dspie bing nolan, is good on police and while carter isnt showing te rassism stuf usually, sh is the clear underdog and it fits, becaus eseim is a thing, and it fits?! Anyways person if interest is good even ewioth the awful human caviezel, that still is a great actor thre, and liberal bias, i think it better with the police portrayal. Hell even female black gordon facing hardhips and dicrimination. Also i love how they just went with th iconic couple root and shaw because why not. And aabout survenece is treally goo , ntertaining and thought provocing.
My usual take on race swaps is that they are lazy, and boring, and POC deserve characters that aren't rehashes. But this was a surprisingly good take on what good could come of it.
Yeah Jeffrey wright is an amazing actor and so was Sam Jackson as Nick fury, zazie beetz as Domino, Billy Dee Williams as Harvey Dent in 1989 Batman and Eartha Kitt as Catwoman 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
@@dyladino He kind of is and isn’t The original Nick Fury was white, however, in the ultimate universe, he was a man of color and looked suspiciously similar to the MCUs Fury
Honestly how they wrote the Walkers in Wednesday really took me out of the show. It made zero sense to me and almost no reviews addressed how incredibly jarring that was. Glad others noticed that, too.
Have you watched AMC's Interview with the Vampire? Are you familiar with the book(s)/movie? I would love to hear your thoughts on Louis (and Claudia). Its a pretty big race-swap with blackness written into it (by a white showrunner). Bonus point; they made text the queerness that was subtext in the book!
Yeah Professor X should stay whyte due to his privilege and how the world automatically sees him as "normal" unless or until he shows he's a mutant. But I could see him being contrasted with a Black Magneto. You'll have the whyte "ally" who doesn't face the same type of vitriol that his other mutants face because of his ability to be "normal passing" who think respectability politics will bring about change being challenged challenged by the ones who seek change by any means necessary. Ijs just an idea
I have a series analysis suggestion… Barney Miller. Ahead of its time? Or an overlooked, underappreciated reflection of the times in which it was created? Edit: It’s a tv series dated late 70’s- early 80’s.
Honestly the mager problems with race swaps is that sine they're often done by white people, they end up creating very unsavory racial undertones, or done to give them clout for being "So brave and controversal to stand up against bigots to give bipoc the representation they deserve" all the while ignoring stuff like the character they are race swapping is based off of an irl historical figure who was extremely racist and either openly supported slavery or just straight up owned slaves. Hell the live action of disney's little mermaid is a good example of white men race swapping without putting anycare, cause since they changed parts of the animated plot to "fit in with modern times" we're basically getting a movie where a black woman has to appeal and get assualted by a white man to achive her dreams, because they decided that making Ariel forget what kissing was is totally feminist and girl power. I honestly wish we lived in a timeline where Ms Bailey got to VA for Princess Peach instead...
Big appreciation for distinguishing Jewishness and whiteness. Nuances on this topic are so often ignored or, worse, exploited, and I thank you for including us.
Hey check out the new Interview with the Vampire on AMC. It has a race swapped Louis who is a fully-realized gay black in 1910 New Orleans. I'd love to hear what you have to say about him
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Cat woman was originally black. O was ninja turtles reporter but you all forget
Fun fact: Catherine Zeta-Jones is actually Welsh! Everyone thinks she's Latina because she was in The Mask of Zorro
Wow.... never knew that
First learned that through Celebrity Deathmatch...
Yeah my family pointed this out since Anthony Hopkins who's also Welsh and Antonio Banderas who's a Spaniard.
genuinely surprised
@@katherinealvarez9216 exactly!
My favorite race swapped character design is Domino from Deadpool 2.
The original is white with a random black eye spot. The movie version is black with a white spot (correct domino colors) and her eye spot is because of vitiligo, which was such a clever design choice. Both are cool, but the movie ver feels more thought out than the comic version.
I agree. No superhero created in the 90s has ever been thought out lol.
Oh yeah! Domino was great. Hope to see her on screen again :)
@@technounionrepresentative4274 no shit Sherlock, dumb as Blob is
@@technounionrepresentative4274 because it is
Well, dominoes come in both colours, but I agree the Vitiligo makes way more sense and is way more visually interesting. She looked awesome. Better character so far, too.
14:59 it’s funny that you showed a clip of Nick Fury cuz I actually didn’t know he was originally white for like the longest time. I’m just so used to seeing Samuel L Jackson play him so well I literally can’t imagine anything else lol
The history behind this is funny. So Nick Fury is white, and has been forever. Then Marvel made The Ultimate universe, which is an alternate universe from the main with more modern interpretations of characters. In that universe, Nick Fury is not only Black, but is modeled after Samuel Jackson. Samuel Jackson saw this in a comic and questioned Marvel about it, and when the MCU was being formed, they drew muktiple elements from both mainline Marvel and the Ultimate universe. Samuel Jackson Nick Fury was decided.
@@G-LukeJAI'm here to add the fun fact that in the ultimates nick fury actually says that if they ever make a movie Sam Jackson should play him.
@@bipolarewok with other words: the artist of these comics wanted to see Jackson play Nick Fury and did what he could do to achieve the goal... and succeeded.
Enjoying the video! I want to offer a small correction: Talocan is based on/connected to Maya people who are North and Central American. South American indigenous groups are different from Maya with different languages traditions etc. we all do share a history of getting bulldozed by colonizers, but yeah. Mesoamerican is a much better term, which you used in the video too.
I was coming to this comment section to write this, but I couldn't have said it better
MesoAmerican cultures are amazing and hope they are revived
Colonizers don't know shit about the Genocides they are committing nor the lands they did it for.
also central america and the carribean are still north american if you go off of the 7 continent model they teach in the united states
@@zainmudassir2964 Does that include the royalty and sacrifice of poor commoners? I am in awe of so much of mezo american civilizations. But history is filled with monsters and hierarchies of violence. latin america, africa and asia are no different.
One of the things about people saying "Just make your own characters" right now that makes it seem so disingenuous to me is presently a vast vast VAST amount of money in the entertainment industry is going for reboots and nostalgia.
There's absolutely minority creators making new and exciting minority stories, but the big pockets won't show up for new and exciting risks; they want old and reliable reboots with a built in audience. A lot of these properties are iconic, but they're also old, and their characterization and character choices still reflect the writers' rooms of those times. When someone wants to bar any change in race for "iconic" characters, they're basically saying cis white straight people get the top 6 billion dollars of industry effort, and everyone else gets the bottom 100 million.
It's naive (or, in many cases, being deliberately obtuse) to pretend a black person trying to pitch a brand new black superhero is going to be sitting on the same playing field as anyone pitching a superman of any race let alone white. It doesn't matter how exceptional the black creator's project is, it doesn't have the weight of fandom history and so won't get the same results.
You captured this so damn well here. And it's literally not about Black creatives pitching poor new characters. As good as it can be the executives still wouldn't care. They wanna re-do same iconic characters.
I mean to be fair no character will be as popular as Superman or any of the major heroes, it's the problem with that argument, ofcourse you won't be able to make a character as popular as the most iconic superheroes ever, at least not right away, but that's true whether it be a person of color or other wise.
This 1000%.
you expressed my thoughts perfectly. whenever I hear that argument I scoff because they clearly do not understand this system and how hard it is to get characters to actually resonate with audiences in a meaningful way that translates to sales. At the end of the day this is a business and money always talks and bs walks. Hell thinking about the actual amount of characters who are not of european descent and caucasion presenting in the comics versus those who are not some race bending is inevitable especially as the fast majority of characters who make up most of the long standing cast of Superheroes who have withstood the test of time are white.
if we stuck to what is in some books the cast would be so overwhelming white. Hell Bane is Latin American and Talia Al Ghul is middle eastern descent and you see what happened to them in Dark Knight Rises.
Still though if Dwayne McDuffie was still alive you can bet DC would have had him handling Milestone movies. Static would have been on the big screen.
Well see the problem is that if we accept swaps because it's too hard to create a new character, than we lower our standards for consuming art and as a result end up leaving a lot of characters on the shelves. It's a shortcut if anything and an excuse for us not to even try because it'll be too hard for audiences to like something that's new and different.
I gotta say, promoting POC into writing roles corrects a lot of these problems. The end, so good.
Not a fan of the word "people of color" its pretty much another word for colored person and basically says that white is the default and everyone else is the other.
I don't think the problems will disrepair by having more non white writers, the focus should instead be on creating new ethnic minority characters that has a interesting power set and lore first, then after they are establish then we can have a story arc's that's about the real world struggles. It feels like most new ethnic minority characters first story arc are all about the real world struggles and then that's all that they are known for.
@@minops999 I would be inclined to agree with you Linguistically, but it is the term that most people use in academia. The term is much like how the term indigenous peoples, is flawed, as human kind is indigenous to Africa (as far as is currently hypothesized); since People of Color, have largely chosen to use the term "People of Color" to represent themselves as a group, as a sign of respect I try to use that term too.
But you keep using language however you want, I wont try to stop you.
Agreed as I was watching this video I was thinking back to the CW crisis on infinite Earths event where black lightning meets John Diggle. Black lightning within the crossover event is tonally different then he is on his own show. When he has the exchange with diggle (which is only one exchange by the way) It is a simple line in the most cliche moment that screams white people had to force two black characters to talk. Had a black writer been in that room. They could have had a simple interaction that would have been no more than 30 seconds and it would have been more authentic than black lightnings entire time during that event.
The sequel might even offer a better opportunity. With his rise to Commissioner, he becomes fully disenchanted because he now has the power and elevation to see how much he CAN'T accomplish. How much the system WON'T change.
At his level in the first film, he could describe it with the classic "if only we had the RIGHT people calling the shots" instead of seeing the institutional nature of the problem.
I get what you’re saying but honestly I’ve grown so sick of the typical Batman status quo that I’m desperate for a Gotham that WILL change and you can list of all the realistic hurdles you want and that’ll still be my end goal. Just me
@Cdr2002 nah, I can get behind that. Might be an interesting story to see how it gets worse before it gets better. And since movies have a more self contained reality, it's got a better framework for having an ending where Gotham just GETS BETTER. Batman finally wins.
It can suck again in the inevitable reboot.
@@hartthorn yeah I would like that very much. There’s a lot about Batman I think needs to change. The utter hopelessness of Gotham’s situation in contemporary takes is one of the big ones, along with the mental health stuff (have Arkham burn to the ground and keep it gone permanently)
@Cdr2002 yeah, the whole conception of Arkham as "it's prison, but for WEIRDOS. Also it's terrible at BEING a prison." Has long outlived its charm.
Would be great to see rehabilitation actually work. Harvey gets mentally better, even while still bearing his scars. Mad Hatter tech gets repurposed for specialized therapy.
@@hartthorn absolutely. The revolving door of villains who never get better despite how redeemable several of them are is just a tiring thing for me. I like your ideas! Competent mental help could also facilitate the transitions that characters like Harley, Ivy, Clayface, and Freeze make to antiheroes or allies of the Bat Family in some iterations like DC Rebirth and the later Arkham games
Black Wesker in the recent Resident Evil Neflix series was a hard pill to swallow because his Aryan Ideal design in the games made perfect sense considering the eugenics-centric goals of Umbrella...
Besides, the trench coat and shades just made Lance Reddick look like he was cosplaying Blade...
plus the show was bad
Jill Valentine in Resident Evil Welcome to Raccoon City was also tough to buy given her half-Japanese roots
Who cares about gamw oplay
@@Rubrick23. The show implied Resident Evil 1-5 happened and people in the show were surprised he was still alive because of his confrontation with Chris & the lava. Since they were the same person, the games do in fact matter. (Despite this Lance Reddick was the best part of that show, but thats because he is Lance Reddick)
@@15thCrypt I wish WTRC was a TV series instead and we got Lance Riddick wesker as their wesker. The wesker in WTRC is so bad but their Claire and Chris was pretty spot on. 😭
Jill I okay. Like they should've given her a Bob or a wig. 90s fashion sense it was way more common for black women with curly hair to have straight and relaxed hair.
But honestly even if Jill looked accurate and they kept her black French-Japanese mix in her character it still would've been awful, cause the actress was barely given anything good dialogue to say or do. Just a bigger background character than fucking Brad in the movie.
If we had gotten a show for WTRC, at least Jill wouldvr had time to do something. It's just so sad that they broke up all the good bits they had and made two mediocre products.
I think there should be some acknowledgement of Earth Kitt as Catwoman in the 1960s.
Eartha Kitt as Catwoman is absolutely iconic.
Ikr like Catwoman has been black before it’s not that deep
Earth Kitt was Catwoman for faaaaar shorter than Julie Newmar.
@@thanasisv190 Julie had the superior body but Eartha was still sexier.
@@SmartDave60 Noooo shot.
I like the idea you brought up regarding Gordon & Batman to have a heart to heart during one of their meet ups at the bat signal.
I think one way to extend on that idea is the portrayal of Gordon’s reaction to the Maroni case. During their conversation about Coulson, he tells Batman he worked the Maroni & wonders why he’s not targeted by the Riddler & of course Batman tells him it’s because he’s not corrupt. It could’ve lead into Gordon talking about the hours/days/weeks he spent working with Coulson on that case, having to jump thru hoops to get the right people to work with, the frustration he felt going by the book when other officers were willing to take shortcuts to get the necessary resources. Then he could say how elated he felt when Maroni was arrested, giving him hope that not only can the system work but it was a win he needed to reassure him of his convictions. Only to have the rug swept under him when he & Batman discover, while following Penguin, that it was all for nothing & the change Gordon was wanted ended up being another empty promise.
I am writing a book where the main cast that are human are POC and I love just editing with stuff like culture in mind. It really helps me feel like I’ve created someone real when I can shake my head and say “no they wouldn’t do that”
@@futurestoryteller I think it’s more nobody cares about my musing introspection. Though as someone who reads more about people and culture then talks to them I definitely can say it’s very different depending on the group as to how people react to cultural literacy
For me what matters the most with raceswaps is intent. It was a creative choice to change Namor to connect his story to the real world and it worked perfectly.
On the other hand with stuff like the Velma raceswaps its clear they only happened to create marketing through controversy. And I have no tolerance for things like that.
Very much like the video.
I think it was Jesse gender and another gay creator that pointed out that Gunn still has a few blind spots when it comes to the gay representation at least on the male side but hopefully he consults and does good with DC
I mean anyone will have horse blinders on for some cultural aspects, but as she says, you just gotta have a good crew and know how to defer to them. He seems good at that. It's all about having... A Justice League 😂
WRT Wednesday, it felt to me like we were in an alternate universe where racism never happened and was replaced by bigotry against outcasts... all the scenes in the past dealt with people's bigotry against the "outcasts" rather than bigotry against Indigenous people for example. I remember one of the characters even saying "We were here before you". I thought she meant Indigenous people but then context shows she's talking about Outcasts. It was super weird.
Yeah that sucks. It's just fake fantasy racism. What else can you expect from Tim Burton, unfortunately.
I like that Cat-woman’s black. It’s literally no black representation in Gotham
Well there is but they don’t show them that much like duke thomas or batwing or jace fox
Bringing up Magneto is a weird situation, since Jews are often Shroedinger's White and the MCU has really seemed to erase a lot of Jewish characters and Jewishness. (Also, Magneto could be made Mizrahi or Sephardic)
One thing I find interesting is racebending in historical and fantastical contexts, because the audience has expectations brought in from real life that might not have existed in the world the work is set in (ex how black characters would be viewed centuries before the Atlantic slave trade or Latino actors playing human looking aliens on a completely alien world). For history there has to be a ton of research into the exact era and views, but fantasy can easily use the equivalent of 'I don't see color' in that 'this world color doesn't exist' while not engaging with what the audience will bring into it.
I just want to say, thank goodness for Ryan Coogler. A Ryan-Coogler-directed X-Men would also have the hope of being the original metaphor that the comics were (the Civil Rights Movement). Can you imagine his Magneto (Malcolm X to Xavier’s MLK, per the original metaphor), given how he’s characterized his villains thus far? 🔥 I’m confident it’d be fire if Disney/Marvel allows him to have his way as they did with Wakanda Forever. He’s a sure hand at this point.
Slightly peripheral but connected, thanks to him and his team in how they’ve realized Wakanda/Black Panther for the big screen without compromising on the blackness (Wakanda _is_ an isolated, uncolonized African nation, after all), I can hope for an unambiguously black Storm in the future. Nothing against the actresses that played her before (and I really like Halle), but there are so many gorgeous, darker-skinned, fully black actresses who would set that role on fire! Mame-Anna Diop would be a great choice, or Yetide Badaki or, if much younger, there is a long list of actresses who are *ready* for the role.
The MLK-Malcolm X thing is actually a misconception. Charles and Magneto were actually based on Jewish leaders David Ben-Gurion and Menachem Begin. The MLK-Malcolm X idea is more known because of the civil rights movement (and maybe it's easier to make a connection with the similar names: Professor X, Malcolm X)
I like your casting choices. More darker skinned black actresses should be given roles and the opportunity to shine. A new Storm with Ryan Coogler's eye and Marvel's budget would be fantastic
(Sorry for the annoying "um actually, you're wrong" comment, I just learned about this recently and many people don't know.)
@@breadtunes Probably not if it's in the MCU though. The MCU literally robbed Wanda of her identity (A jewish-romani immigrant (with a holocaust survivor father) adjusting to america) by replacing everything that makes her her with a white woman who's into american sitcoms and has one INCREDIBLY poor made up accent she loses as soon as she can. Also made some gross comments towards Romani culture.
Modern movies in general like to avoid any reference to their character inspirations, like taking Superman, a character made by jewish creators inspired by Moses and the golem, and replace him with christian Jesus imagery. Comics are filled with this stuff, Captain America was a super man created to fight Nazis by Jewish writers, he was created as a literal modern day golem.
Mutants were created as stand-ins for oppressed minorities but nowadays bigots lose their mind if minorities are included. I'm scared for an X-men movie that tackles the politics they were created to tackle because the "including minorities is woke" crowd is just so bloodthirsty.
@@breadtunes The Golem and the Jewish Superhero by Jacob Geller, actually. But thanks for the recommendation for another video to watch.
"Ryan Coogler-directed X-Men" is the sweetest phrase I didn't know I needed to see in a comment. Thank you for bringing this fantastic idea into my awareness. I now am going to feverishly hope for this outcome sometime soon down the road.
@@breadtunes Both videos are really good! I'm glad people make them. We need accurate history and respect for them now more than ever. Thanks for pointing them out!
I think Issa Rae once talked about "editing" a script for a while romance movie to a black one and what its like
Do you remember where that was? Sounds fascinating
11:39 i was introduced to Namor as a character in Exiles with an AU version of him who was blue skinned and named Namora so when I saw his OG comic design I was kinda taken aback. I haven’t seen this movie but from what I’ve heard it’s like it’s adding backstory to the Atlanteans in a way I haven’t seen before in Marvel and I really like that.
Maybe that comic did something different and did make Namora a Namor AU, but as far as I know Namora is just Namor's sister or cousin. And she's blue like all the other Atlanteans.
I think it's pretty cool they took a pretty standard and overdone Atlantis society and added an interesting rarely seen cultural spin to it.
Exiles fan detected
Respect
I think the problem is caused by a segregated writing staff. Hiring black writers in numbers large enough to prevent racist peer pressure to hate their own kind would prevent "miss" black characters.
As a middle aged white dude who grew up reading comics, my take on it is this...I just want the best possible actors in the roles, when they come to the screen. Yes, almost all of the heroes were drawn white back then, but that's just ink on a page. Bringing them to life is different. I love Jim Gordon, for example. So much so that I'm furious that McFarlane Toys stubbornly refuses to make any Gordon action figures. I thought Gary Oldman was perfect casting, and I still do. And when Jeffrey Wright was cast, what did I think? I was excited, because Jeffrey Wright is great in everything he does. And once I saw the movie? Wright is perfect casting. Just as perfect as Oldman. I don't care about his skintone...he brought one of my favorite characters to life in a way that I fully and instantly recognize.
Had some casting director decided he couldn't play Gordon because of the color of his skin, we'd have lost one of the very best Jim Gordon portrayals in the 80-year history of Batman media. And I'm not cool with that. Pale skin is not a characteristic that I consider foundational to most white comic book characters. Honestly, I think 'wrong skin color' is, in the vast majority of cases, as silly an argument as 'wrong eye color.' It doesn't hurt James Bond to cast an actor with blue eyes, and it doesn't hurt James Gordon to cast an actor with darker skin.
My man 💪
I've always thought skins tone or facial features being different is no different to to hair, eye colour, nose shape etc. being different
Another thing: we can make characters mixed! A character being Black doesn’t mean they can’t have other cultural heritage. I thought mixed Black Canary was one of the best takes on her character *ever* in the BOP movie.
True that. As a mixed person I really appreciate mixed race comic book characters, like for example Dick Grayson (whose mom was Romani), or Selina Kyle (who is Irish and Cuban)
I might be wrong, but I don't think Brian Bendis has a Black wife. He has Black children, who are adopted.
Appreciate the correction, thank you
@La'Ron Readus Also he's Jewish, not white. As are basically all the other "white" creators you mentioned. Yes, there are Jews who can pass as white, but that doesn't make us white, and we're reminded of it constantly if we step anywhere outside of a major city (not to mention I've dealt with tons of antisemitism at work and on the subway). If we were "white" my father's sister wouldn't have been murdered.
His wife is white but yeah he has two black daughters
@@awesomeallyse as a black person who was raised by a white mom, I really hope she knows how to work with their daughters hair. My mom took time to learn how to braid. It was a good bonding time
Another excellent, informative essay! And it completed your thoughts on characters featured in Netflix's WEDNESDAY! Thank you, La'Ron!
Talocan (nemor) should be the colonizer. Making him a Mayan who did nothing for centuries is not a good change.
8:16 I feel the same way. I don't think you could have a white dude play Storm, T'Chala or Static as race and their culture are so tied to who they are and for their respective significance to comics as a whole. I feel the same about religion, like Ben Grimm should always be Jewish.
Wow. Fabulous episode. I just finished it. I wanna thank you for not only highlighting Batman '89, but just for talking about a comic book. I sometimes feel frustrated, as a comic book maker and fan, how so many youtubers talk endlessly about comic book adaptations and never about the books themselves. Real cool moment. Real cool book. I got it for my boyfriend for Christmas.
Meso-America is part of Central America, not South America. And Central America is a subcontinent of North America. As many Americans hate the idea of sharing a continent with Mexico down to Panama, they are still part of North America.
Also this is early in the video but I do love how the video started and brought up the idea of how race-swapping can make a whole new interesting ideas, for the characters who's race really doesn't play a part of who they are. Not to mention, of all types and versions of characters for different universes, I don't know why they should stop at animal verisons of characters but not changing up their race.
You were so close but an A for effort. Mexico is North America not as a part of the centra american subcontinent but just North America, Central America begins with Guatemala and ends with Panama. Meso Americans extend as far as northern Mexico and touches down to Costa Rica, making it a region in north and central america.
Not being familiar with your work, I was really worried that this video was going to be a conservative take on how race swapping in media was bad but you actually approached the whole conversation from an angle that was refreshing and added so much more to the conversation than what I've seen in the current discourse.
great video, always enjoy when I get that new video notification
Completely agreed on everything. I especially appreciated the shout out to Batman '89 at the end. While parts of it don't work for me, I loved how they handled Robin and Two-Face and how the race-swapping wasn't just skin-deep. It's too bad all of that nuanced was drowned out by complaints about it being "too woke" or how it didn't feel authentic to Burton's Batman.
I just want to say thank you for sharing your perspectives. This was a really good video and I learned a lot more about the nuances of race swapping. I wonder why, if Hollywood has become so capable of having like therapists and consent specialists on set for their films and TV shows, white writers, directors and producers seem so incapable of including POC perspectives to inject more nuance.
This video was so good! I’m just gonna send it to people when they need an explanation on flop rep VS tasteful rep
I just disagree that Gordon was a missed. Just because he is tackling the wrongs of cops doesn't mean he isn't a good race swapped. Plenty of black cops that do trust the system and are earnest. Come on now. This is just so narrow in how to view things.
I gotta disagree about Namor. His Vegeta energy is necessary and justified. Characters that facilitate conflict are some of the best characters imo. Having characters only be dumb, grumpy, or quippy is kinda annoying and it's getting boring.
The problem is is since most writers are white Caucasian and straight. They don’t know how to write for African-Americans and LGBTQ. So they do a cheap move and try to replace a long time hero / villain, or supporting character, and that kind of messes up their history. To fix this problem, I think writers need to learn how to write for African-Americans and LGBTQ leave the characters as their original race etc…, and just create more new characters.
Here's an example of how you do racwbending well.
Happily Ever After Fairy Tales for Every Child. Firstly it was done back when racebending was a genuine attempt at reo rather than a trend to get money and purposefully rile up PoC who hated white people or considered poc who disagreed with them traitors (like me, I am considered a traitor and even have had the white in reality conspiracy thrown at me).
HEA changes the entire setting of the story and does it in a meaningful, natural way that doesn't feel condescending or insulting or pressuring. You could tune in and never knew what you'd get. African Beauty and the Beast? Ditto. Chinese Little Red Riding Hood? Ditto. Brazilian Thumbelina? Ditto. Alaskan Snow Queen? Korean Little Mermaid and Princess and the Pea? Creole Rapunzel? Native American Snow White? All Ditto. It was glorious.
"PoC who hate w. people"?! Sir.
🙄
The way the Black characters were portrayed on Wednesday was so jarring. Some of those lines I'm like how did no one see the issue here
That line from Morticia had me like wtf
The same reason all the other writing parts? Listen, I enjoyed Wednesday but I was warned that Burton can't write black characters because they don't "fit his aesthetic" and that the romance, if you can call it that, was atrocious. It became an unintentional comedy whenever they tried making a romance moment. Each girl getting TWO poorly written male love interests sounds like it was written in 1998 😅Guy freaking out how Wednesday is sending "mixed signals" when she just needs a car to go hunt a mystery will never not be hilarious to me.
It's a school about outcasts and monsters and not a single one is an actual real world outcast (black, gay, trans, disabled) except for Bianca who is the school bully. Bianca has potential for an interesting arc but... Wednesday is kind of a mess
I love the 90s Addams Family movies (moreso Addams Family Values -- Debbie remains the moment), but I've not watched this. I keep hearing that it's mess in that regard, and maybe I'm weird, but I'm a black person who'd rather we not be included if it's not done well. There _was_ a story that they could have told about self-hate, but to have Morticia deliver that line without _at least_ a response from the guy, even something as generic as, "I understand more than you know," is *ridiculous* ! It's got WB/CW written ALL over it. And given all the racist stuff I've heard about WB/CW, it sounds very on-brand. Netflix, girl,...
Tenoch Huerta, Namor himself, has spent years speaking up/out (even now) about racism and colorism in Mexico/South America. He *literally* wrote a book on it! So, to have a white Latina say that to a black character...were they intentionally being inflammatory or were they that stupid?
I'd rather have seen an adult Wednesday Addams show with Christina Ricci. Why block the chick who used to make those shorts on YT, and why have Christiana play Lizzie Borden (anyone else remember that show?) if they weren't gonna do something like that? Not trying to get rid of a Latino-focused show (and at least they actually got proper depth), but do right by everyone, or at least make an attempt. SMH
@@HotDogTimeMachine385 Tim Burton lost me when he said that. I grew up on the guy's films and they were partly why I became interested in the goth subculture. To this day, Batman Returns remains my favorite Batman movie. But someone needs to show him Marley, the Glam Goth or something (and she's not the only one), because, baby, black folks can slay _any_ subculture. I say this as a former Gothic Lolita. 💅🏾
He gives, "I didn't grow up around, nor choose to currently live around, 'blacks'" vibes, unfortunately. He's trying to tell us that black folks couldn't have even fit his weird non-gothic aesthetics? Okay, Tim. Then Netflix turned around and created this mess.
@@breadtunes That specific line was included in this video. Morticia tells the Black mayor "men like you don't understand what it's like to not be believed"
But also like, pretty much all of the Black characters were villains with considerable social capital.
My only issue with your video is that not all people have their personalities and behavior influenced by their ethnicity. Like Wednesday listening to Spanish music is cool, but she doesn't have to. I don't listen to rap or r&b every time I'm chilling.
Also, there are minorities whose experiences aren't the same as others. I was part of a police Q & A at an HBCU and was surprised at how diverse the responses were. When one black student talked about their negative interactions with the cops, a good amount of us, including myself disagreed in sharing those thoughts. It was also clear that our experiences mostly differed because of our living environments. I live in a very diverse suburb neighborhood; where white people are the minority. Very few, if any, in my neighborhood have had a bad interaction with the cops. So I found it difficult to relate, and it was the same for those that did have consistent bad interactions.
So in general, I agree that there should be more effort to make characters more distinct, when it comes to ethnicity and culture. I just don't think it should be all the time, or can be done to varying degrees, because then it could seem like everyone that looks like the actor or from that culture is the same and has the same experience.
I'm 100% against changing Magneto BECAUSE he's already representation for Jews like myself. There's plenty of reasons why Magneto's age isn't a problem just by looking at the comics and different factors that exist there.
As for Professor X? I've actually argued he should be Black (or whichever minority but I think Black would be more poignant) so I'm really hoping the Giancarlo Esposito rumors end up being true. He would be AMAZING.
I totally agree about Namor. I always hated him in the comics and that goes even beyond whether he looked White or whatever. He was suggest a misogynistic asshole. I loved him in the MCU though, so much more deep of a character and Atlantis always felt more like an afterthought for him whereas it felt important for Aquaman
Also, before someone says something like, "but some Jews are POC". Yes, I'm aware of that but not all of us are and I'd rather not think my representation has to be changed because being a White Presenting Jew is considered bad because we happen to look like White People. Totally bring out more JOC though. Also, I find it incredibly problematic to want to erase the Holocaust past when we have so many people trying to erase the Holocaust already in the world
How can Magneto be jewish and have the same trauma factors triggering his eventual path since the MCU is in like the late 2020s now?
It will take years to introduce him and by that point he'd have to be over 100 to have been in a holocaust as a kid.
Not gonna lie, your argument is all over the place and reads as "yes there are jews that are POC, buT THE REAL JEWS ARE WHITE".
@@deedeedan8681 that is the most disingenuous interpretation of what I had to say you could have made
@@imthestein the important factor of Magneto is his Jewish heritage, his white skin is irrelevant he could’ve gone through the same experiences had he been literally any other race + jewish in WWll Germany. Your point doesn’t stand
Catwoman has had so many black woman portrayals at this point does she even really count as a race swap?
Yeah feels like she’s just owned it to a degree unlike any other character, and I super dig it. She’s becoming the next Nick Fury in that way
The only iteration that is 100% confirmed to be SELINA KYLE is Sanaa Lathan's portrayal of her in the Harley Quinn animated series. The Halle Berry and Eartha Kitt versions while Catwoman are not Selina Kyle, which was the initial focus made for the video.
How the Elites allowed Namor,a character from the 30's..to go from McKenzie to McKenez is Beyond me.
fantastic video as always! loved that very last bit about not seeing color, it was super punchy. (idk if that's the right word for it.)
My only problem i guess is that it almost always feels like I should like a character because they are a POC it just feels like a “here take this and shut up”
Thanks for the excellent perspective, I think this is one of my favorite videos from you
I think the issue with making Magneto, specifically, a black character (or at least an African-American character) is that his backstory as a holocaust survivor is both very important to his character and not continuous with the struggles he and/or other mutants face in America. With an African-American Magneto, I feel like there's a risk of either the character or the portrayal of the issue getting distorted by the differences between American anti-blackness and European antisemitism. I could see a Haitian Magneto potentially working, but even then I'm not totally sure. If I were going to make Magneto non-white, I think I'd go with a Rohingya or Uyghur backstory if you were bringing his backstory right up to the present, or Tibetan if you wanted a bit more of a time buffer. Or for a more radical take, you could perhaps go for a Kurdish Magneto, with almost any timeline you want.
All interesting suggestions worth working with!
Still I don‘t get the argument against Blackness because the character was Jewish. Black Jews exist. A Black Jewish holocaust survivior sounds like a lot of potential for a spin on the character.
@@Alina_Schmidt The argument is more that if you make him black and do nothing else, most of your audience is going to assume that means "African American", and is also going to assume that overwrites the "holocaust survivor" backstory. A black jewish holocaust survivor could be an interesting character, and a more general exploration of the various black jewish cultures would be nice to see, but at some point we start drifting away from "Magneto".
To me, the core of the character is "person radicalized by surviving widely acknowledged genocide/statelessness". There's plenty of ways to make that character nonwhite without either bending over backwards to specifically retain the original's jewishness or reductively swapping that for a different history of marginalization as if all such identities are basically the same.
As someone who likes some race-swaps and get triggered by others, I try to hear rational perspectives from both sides of the conversation, so I don't get stuck in an echo chamber. You definitely made a lot of good points 👍 if you're interested, solid arguments on the opposite side have been made by youtubers Patience Xina and Metatron.
I’m about full native and have lived on the rez most of my life and grew up on these comics. To tell the truth if Gunn decided to make Lois lane native in his new movie I might be less likely to watch it. Doesn’t make me hate myself for being native, just means I was invested in the character and didn’t see Lois’s portrayal as a native woman. Idk to each their own, everyone is free to make and consume what they want.
Loved the video but felt it was important to chime in that before raceswapping was happening on screen (or ... Even comics) it was very popular in a variety of different fandoms under the name 'racebending'. From cosplays*, to fancasts (v popular even among the relatively normie twitter crowd) or fanart. It was something that fans were clamoring for. Its pretty rare for comics to do an outright raceswap**, iris west is one that's happened thats actually stuck
and instead its often a legacy character which imo is pretty different than racebending but scaremongers treat it as the same..and the same conversations happen when a legacy character is introduced people ask why they had to be connected to one of the main heros in such a big n why they couldnt just introduce a character of color whos friends w the heros but not directly connected by name or namesake or family. N idk i think the records show that when you do that the character is likely to just never come back when the writer is done with them.
Hell they gave amanda waller a daughter in new 52 n she just Never came back after that run of teen titans was over and they decided that skinny amanda walller was honestly insulting (now why fat amanda waller couldnt have a kid from a maligned teen book is beyond me )
*(no im not talking about poc cosplaying white characters but for example someone cosplaying sailor moon but with long brown butterfly braids and parts of the sailor uniform replaced w fabric patterns they got from nigeria etc)
** (wallace west was one for a while until the white wally west come back so now instead of being the wally west hes wally wests cousin? Instead of being iris's cousin )
32:50 I really would have liked for Noble to go "Seriously?" Because I said that out loud when I saw this.
Thank you for sharing because well edited video, articulation is super and excellent advice. I was nervous because I’m not a fam of new things but this new feels good 👍🏾
great video, the audio seems wayyyy too quiet tho
As a white person who wants to write and not just write white characters, this is appreciated
I snorted with laughter for "his vegeta energy"
(i liked that too)
EXCELLENT essay. Very thought provoking and compelling. And I love the suggestion you propose for Commissioner Gordon.
I’m going to have a look at your other videos, and I’m hoping to find something on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine………Aaaaannnnd I’m back, and there’s a LOT of content here….lot’s that I’m looking forward to, but none about Commander then Captain Sisko. Pity. That series, and two episodes of it in particular, went a very long way towards squeezing my pathetically myopic understanding of these issues from white farm boy insular moron to hopefully much more aware white man who, though still a moron, at least sees some of reality. If, for whatever reason, you’ve never had room for DS9, well, I’m sure you get recommendations all the time. And yes, I’m aware that it may well look like I’m doing something thoughtless by assuming you have something to say about Sisko. But as this video more than demonstrates, you’ve taken this particular facet head on with deep and nuanced argumentation, and I’d love to hear what you had to say as regards DS9. Not to validate or demolish my own perceptions, but rather because I am certainly missing a world of ideas that would better inform my own opinions.
Anyway, great video!
Catwoman was also played by eartha kitt back in the 70s
yeah i didn't care about namor at all until he was native south american. now i think he's cool.
Im sorry. Black Panther 2 isn't the best with its Mayan characters. first off the modern Myan village they go to in the movie is full of mud huits and unpaved roads. That is an Americans idea of what those communities look like, but isn't accurate to the real thing. These communities are not un-touched, pre-industerial villages. They have modern ammedies. It is ignorant to the point of being uitentionally racist. Like if an American writer wrote a scene in Japan and they were all walking around with swords and samurai armor.
Then is is really weird that Namor just like Spain invade. Also that there is nothing specific about the atlantis cultural practices that is specifically Myan outside of asthetics.
And last if they did their research, the filmmakers would know that indgienes meso Americans couldn't grow facial hair.
Yeah. Also it didn’t help that namor marginalized its audience with belittling “colonizer language”. Like you use the culture as aesthetic then backslap with judging the culture’s current language. Maybe this is just me though.
I think people generally have difficulty understanding perspectives outside of their own cultural context, regardless of background. You mentioned Black creatives taking into consideration world views outside of their own successfully in the video. What are the best examples of this, I would love to check them out?
Umm one example is that made in this video. The Mesoamerican representation and even going as far as having initiated the race-swapping of the white Atlantis comic origins is such good example of Black creatives representing others well.
@@guyafrica7894 Naturally I meant besides this. After all a single anecdote is hardly representative of a broader idea. It would be like me turning around and saying look at how beloved Kung fu panda is in China and how authentically it pays homage classic Chinese cinema it must be an indication that white people do cultural representation well.
Fun fact Catherine isn't Latina at all she is Welsh. We understand her as such because her representation on screen.
I loved Commissioner Gordon in the Batman
Was Momoa Aquaman a hit or a miss?
I'll actually be tackling this topic and the changes made to Orm/Ocean Master when the Aquaman sequel comes out at the end of the year, but I'd call the short of it a hit
@@Readus101 Momoa Aquaman is good. The movie he is in...well it could have used more polish.
Aquaman's dedication to Atlantis and his attitude towards the surface world always came off like extreme Nationalism. His blonde-haired, blue-eyed ass played into that perfectly.
I find Mamoa to be a massive miss
Zoe Kravitz is the third live-action Catwoman portrayed by a Bi-racial woman. At this point she's canonically mixed.
Oh good, I am having difficulty understanding and refuting the whole “Race Swapping is Good/Bad,” Debate. I’ll watch this tomorrow while vacuuming! Thanks Readus!
Damn, that was *good*.
Another example of "characters who don't know they are Black" that I can think of is pretty much the entirety of the TV show version of "Sleepy Hollow". Like, good ideas here and there, but holy shit what a "post-racism" liberal candy land masquerading as a "modern setting". I'm from Germany and even I managed to pick up on that.
Absolutely no shade on Nicole Beharie, she is amazing and quickly became the only reason why I kept watching that show. She's so, so good.
Marvel and DC Comics have alot of different Race characters. Why can they not start using those characters? DC Jimmy Olson is white and a red head. Batwoman is white and a red head. .. You race switched them. Disney you are SO DAMN guilty all over for race switching so dang much it is sickening. Marvel has major awesome black characters. Why are you not using them? Stop race switching. Race switched the scooby-do gang. STOP INSULTING peoples races by switching races of original characters. That makes that Company Racist. Stop pitting people agents each other for your company making money from racism. If you want to put a different race in to make a movie then STOP Swapping and use one that already is there or create a new character. It is so dang simple ..If a character started out as white it should stay that way, same thing applies to black characters, how are people supposed to care if theirs characters can't stay consistent, what happens to the actual black characters, do we just forget about them? If they want diversity so badly, just make good stories around pre existing black characters, I mean why race swap when you could just make a new character the way you want. I totally agree with you on this, race swapping is just the laziest way to deal with the problem of non-white roles in film and tv.
I personally don’t care either way what color a character is…sometimes I love race swapped characters though especially when it is well thought out and has a purpose.
For me I think sometimes people get worked up over nothing…but other times their complaints are completely justified. Sometimes they force things, makes no sense, and are just forcing some political narrative into a movie or series that didn’t need it.
I really liked this video. It was a good watch. I also don't know how it escaped my notice that Magneto's whole thing is the holocaust and yet somehow the character is never remotely Jewish... but now I'm annoyed about that. I'm also still deeply on the fence about whether to watch Wednesday or not, months later. Some parts look so good! And some parts look so bad...
For me when a race swap happens it brings in a sub text not in the original writings. So it automatically changes the way the character is written. Some times its a good thing, but sometimes it isn't. Like say a character like jimmy olsen what does being black due for his character? In all of the time we've seen a black jimmy olsen he's always so flat and acts nothing like the original.
While minorities are definitely more likely to portray other minorities with empathy and deep research than majorities, and while minorities across the board do better jobs at portraying other minorities, the results are not always flawless, or even great, and issues show through the cracks. Wakanda Forever can be an example, Atlanta could be an example, and so on.
I was pissed for Roland Deschain swap. His whiteness was a major plot point and it erased a great character in Odetta.
This was such a great video! I am going to share it with people I know who need to hear/watch it, understand it, and grow!
Miles Morales is text book how good gender swap should be. Create a new character that can replace the old character perfectly without any issue
You know what I would love to see? A black Punisher. Hear me out, but his character has been hijacked by a specific group of people that represent something that Frank Castle was never supposed to promote or represent. They tried to revamp him with this stupid shit with the Hand, but it just came across as forced and stupid. Frank Castle using katanas? Give me a break. But I think a black Punisher would be legitimately badass and would be a welcomed change to the character.
Anyone remember Lincoln Clay from Mafia 3? He basically was black Punisher, it isn't like this can't be done. And we absolutely can incorporate his race as an aspect of his character.
I wonder if the same people who are pissy over Ariel in the Little Mermaid being black have anything to say about Morgan Freeman being a character that was originally whit in Shawshank. Or Billy Dee Williams being Harvey Dent in the Burton Batman movies (still mad we ne wr got Black Two-Face 😡).
One of my big gripes about "Man Of Steel" was the race and gender swap of Jimmy to Jenny Olsen, I thought Lawrence Fishburne was fantastic as Perry White and I think they did put thought into his character but with Jimmy/Jenny it felt like that swap was for no real reason other than to cast an Asian female in a superman movie.
My general rule of thumb for race swapping characters is "does race swapping this character enhance or bring interesting development to them or add commentary to the wider culture?"
If yes, then go ahead so long as its respectful and interestingly well done.
If no, then evaluate why your race swapping. If its for political woke points or to be controversial - just don't
You ignore the fact that most of the outrage is against the lack of poc in hollywood getting jobs, because they're ignored by writers, and its mostly because Hollywood thinks they can make more money by bringing in high actors. Everything about this video ignores the actual problem, which is the subjugation of poc in Hollywood. You can sprinkle in your comic references all you want, and I agree with them (I'm a comic fan too), but you're 100% ignoring the Hollywood money making mechanism.
I think Moviebob did a great job of explaining why race-flipping characters to white is fundamentally different from race-flipping away from white in the video Correctitude.
Most of the complaints from the anti-SJW fake fans are simply disingenuous. They demand that we cannot have a non-white character unless there is justification for having a non-white character, but we never have to justify having a character be white. I think we all know why this is.
Further, DC constantly goes through reboots. Why haven’t they done more race-flipping?
Some well-to-do African-Americans agonize over whether they are doing enough to help the African American community to justify being wealthy at all. Race-flipping Batman to an African-American would give a great opportunity to explore that, while also exploring a completely different side of justice that doesn’t normally get covered in Batman comics.
I think Superman works better as an immigration metaphor rather than a Jesus metaphor. Why not race-flip Superman to Latino and use the character to talk about how America-ostensibly an immigrant nation-is treating immigrants.
As for race-flipping legacy characters, yes, yes, yes, yes, please. If we are going to have legacy characters at all and turn certain superheroes into titles that get passed around, then there better be some race-flipping going on.
I'm not indigenous central American, so my opinion about how good or bad the portrayal of Namor was does not matter, but I liked it, and it shows that writers and directors can produce good characters that are not of the same demographic, but the comic books are full of examples of characters that did not truly get good until someone of a similar demographic took over writing duties. I think Apu from Simpsons shows that you want at least one person from the target demographic somewhere on the creative staff just to avoid possible awfulness.
I think the “I don’t see color” approach to race-swapping COULD be used for interesting effect, but I have never seen an example of that. If a minority character is more or less the same as a white character, a clever writer could use that to make the minority character more sympathetic to a white audience and ease them into seeing things from another point of view by having that “interchangeable” minority character interact with his or her own community. Or at least, that is what I said for decades. We may be getting to the point where such tricks are not necessary and we can just expect white audiences to empathize with people who are different.
I had the same reaction to Gordon in that movie. They missed an opportunity to use Gordon to SAY something. He is a high-ranking cop, for crying out loud. There are tons of things he should be grappling with in this day and age. The character should be used to say something about police brutality against minorities and the poor. After all, in the same movie, they used Batman to say something about the privilege of the wealthy, so why not use Batman’s close confidant to say something similar about the police and the brutality and oppression directed at African-American community? Or that said brutality is used to foment racism, which allows wealthy people like the Waynes to trick other white people into voting against their own economic self-interest. Now THAT would make for an interesting subtext.
Wakanda forever did something I thought was impossible. They did what Snyder did with Aquarium and made me actually like the character and made him kinda cool. Instead of the chod I have always thought he was. I honestly thought Namor was Asian .
I grew up being a HUGE fan of Tim Burton, ... until I read, that he didnt believe Black people fit his "aesthetics". And since, I'm fluent in racist dog whistles, I stopped watching his content. I did watch video essays about his long-awaited inclusion of Black characters in one of his projects (Wednesday) and ...
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I loved your video essay because you made a lot of great points. My only disagreement with you is about the comic book version of Namor. To me his arrogant personality was part of his appeal. Yes, he did things that were wrong and I didn't agree with them. He can be an a- hole, but a very charismatic one. He was never boring. And some of his arrogance was so over the top that it was funny. In comparison to Namor, the comic book version of Aquaman seemed like a Ken doll.
If I found your videos when I was younger, it would've vastly improved my experience. You are doing a great thing here man 😁
This is brilliant, you are brilliant. As a Chicano, Walanda Forever could not have made me happier. You are dead on about The Batman 💪🏼
"Half of something is better than all of nothing." ~ Lucky Luciano
I think my favourite , has to be nick fury, becaus its just that organic. If i had to pick a fave, thats it.
Wait, after daisy/sky from agents of shield, not having any whedon , ok any jos whedon involvement, thr are other whedons, but not joss. and its great
daisy/sk is based on the character quake, and as cloe bennet, who is gret, is half chinese, that actually is , after the first season where she is allowed to look that part, treally well, her mom too is great.
And meng na wei aka voice o mulan being another acian, through original character.
And depite the haha only one black main character can b in the main cast and if another they die arly, its a really diverse show and not rassist, that weird thing aside. that later has more than one so, good. Really good.
But also quak is definitly raceswapped by allowing chloe look asian. And really good inbuild with her family, that plays a big role, Also she is a great superhero growing into it. An may the opthe muscle, is allowed to be more than th admitedly badass she is, but explore trauma,. and them bonding.
Daisy/skye really best argumently raceswapped.
Also ther is a good black gordon. And i know nolans are kinda colourblind, but non the less that has some good takes there. And yes caviezel is an awful human being, but a good actor, here he is as great batman actor.
Anyways carter is great, and she wasnt fridged, sh lt for power, and it really left an impact on the entire show, that is felt. And the boss of the polic mafia there, is a vblack guy, for what its worth.
An he is a black woman who is an ex soldier, which is very gordon. And tries to be the best ion th corrupt police . Also she inspirs the very bullock fusco, who too is great.
An yes there i the police mafia that is then busted, but the police i never actualy shopwn as the good guys, lie later they are used by another treat.
What i say operson of interst is dspie bing nolan, is good on police and while carter isnt showing te rassism stuf usually, sh is the clear underdog and it fits, becaus eseim is a thing, and it fits?!
Anyways person if interest is good even ewioth the awful human caviezel, that still is a great actor thre, and liberal bias, i think it better with the police portrayal. Hell even female black gordon facing hardhips and dicrimination.
Also i love how they just went with th iconic couple root and shaw because why not.
And aabout survenece is treally goo , ntertaining and thought provocing.
I loved gordon in the batman didn't even think about the race I just saw Jim
@@sup3414 yeah i couldn’t believe that they did jim so nicely and selina so dirty
My usual take on race swaps is that they are lazy, and boring, and POC deserve characters that aren't rehashes. But this was a surprisingly good take on what good could come of it.
Haven't seen the video yet obviously but is catwoman even really a race swap? And Jeffery Wright was amazing as Gordon
Yeah Jeffrey wright is an amazing actor and so was Sam Jackson as Nick fury, zazie beetz as Domino, Billy Dee Williams as Harvey Dent in 1989 Batman and Eartha Kitt as Catwoman 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
@Wyndamn Honestly would've love to see Lando as Two Face.
@@Wyndamn fury is definitely not a race swap in the mcu lol
@@dyladino He kind of is and isn’t
The original Nick Fury was white, however, in the ultimate universe, he was a man of color and looked suspiciously similar to the MCUs Fury
@@musicaleuphoria8699 that would've been frigging awesome 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
Honestly how they wrote the Walkers in Wednesday really took me out of the show. It made zero sense to me and almost no reviews addressed how incredibly jarring that was. Glad others noticed that, too.
The fact that reviews are afraid to address when race swaps make no sense, is a problem
Have you watched AMC's Interview with the Vampire? Are you familiar with the book(s)/movie? I would love to hear your thoughts on Louis (and Claudia). Its a pretty big race-swap with blackness written into it (by a white showrunner). Bonus point; they made text the queerness that was subtext in the book!
I actually love the new version the Tom Cruise stale version was horrible.
Wait didn't Louis owned slaves though
This video was well made! I'm looking forward to checking out your other work.
Excited for the video!
Yeah Professor X should stay whyte due to his privilege and how the world automatically sees him as "normal" unless or until he shows he's a mutant. But I could see him being contrasted with a Black Magneto. You'll have the whyte "ally" who doesn't face the same type of vitriol that his other mutants face because of his ability to be "normal passing" who think respectability politics will bring about change being challenged challenged by the ones who seek change by any means necessary.
Ijs just an idea
I have a series analysis suggestion… Barney Miller. Ahead of its time? Or an overlooked, underappreciated reflection of the times in which it was created?
Edit: It’s a tv series dated late 70’s- early 80’s.
Honestly the mager problems with race swaps is that sine they're often done by white people, they end up creating very unsavory racial undertones, or done to give them clout for being "So brave and controversal to stand up against bigots to give bipoc the representation they deserve" all the while ignoring stuff like the character they are race swapping is based off of an irl historical figure who was extremely racist and either openly supported slavery or just straight up owned slaves. Hell the live action of disney's little mermaid is a good example of white men race swapping without putting anycare, cause since they changed parts of the animated plot to "fit in with modern times" we're basically getting a movie where a black woman has to appeal and get assualted by a white man to achive her dreams, because they decided that making Ariel forget what kissing was is totally feminist and girl power. I honestly wish we lived in a timeline where Ms Bailey got to VA for Princess Peach instead...
Lovecraft country was written by a white guy and I thought it was excellent
Big appreciation for distinguishing Jewishness and whiteness. Nuances on this topic are so often ignored or, worse, exploited, and I thank you for including us.
Hey check out the new Interview with the Vampire on AMC. It has a race swapped Louis who is a fully-realized gay black in 1910 New Orleans. I'd love to hear what you have to say about him