You can tell Tom was trying so hard to decide whether to say yes or no when sophie asked if he was her demon. That long silence he was thinking so hard lol
@@EzekiesAcheron Actually very smart from Tom to say no. He knows that the Harpy minion can't really be concealed, and the second sophie realizes this she would obviously know Tom is lying. Not that that makes a difference, since the town seemed hell bent on leaving Tom alive no matter the evidence lmao.
@@goodtimesaelfred Doesn't seem so, Tom's primary goal as the Harpy was to cause chaos, all he had to do was keep Sophie convinced for one day that she was the Marionette and he was the Demon to get 3 total votes in favour of killing whoever they wanted. Plus there was no hard evidence she wasn't the marionette, so it probably wouldn't have been known until the next day, at which point they would've already killed a townsmember via execution with the votes they had.
My guess is, he wasn't confident that he could come up with lies on the spot like that. He wasn't expecting that, so it took him by surprise and he had to either be safe and say "no" or take a longer time to respond, making it even more suspicious
@@goodtimesaelfred Yeah, seems so. I mean Tom was basically saying "I'm an empath with a 0. There are two pings on me but I think one of the people who pinged on me is a minion and the demon is my neighbor, from whom I got an 0 from." Failure to use occum's razor and a failure to notice the contradiction.
Tom knowing that order 65 is the order that makes the clones kill the emperor is amazing. Thats why he got worried there after ravs said execute order 65 and i love that he knows that
I think they could though? Tom gets 2 votes and marked, RT has to use his ghost vote to tie, then the next day Ben and Ravs vote to kill Tom, no? Pretty sure RT threw, at least until Ben threw harder.
His math was wrong though. The townies could have still won had they played correctly, but both living townies fucking threw it in the toilet. Ben flopped by not voting for Tom when he was literally COMPELLED to think and act like Tom was bad. Ravs flopped the second chance by voting and dooming the town to an un-tieable situation, leaving Tom to kill the last player in the night. Had they baited out RT's vote onto Ben then tied the vote with both innocent votes, they could have tanked the murder in the night and executed tom with a 1 living 1 ghost vote the next day.
@@Obscurite1221 nah, there's a rule where evil wins if 2 players are left and one is the demon. Also I'm pretty sure each player can only be nominated once, so Ravs' only hope was that Ben was doing the longest con, and Tom and RT were somehow good.
I love how Tom always stands up on the back of his chair in the town. Its such a power move, and I think it contributes to him being so good at this game
Toms play of being openly evil and pushing for RTs execution saved the game for them, because everyone thought the minion wouldnt openly try to kill his demon.
I really thought they would realize that it was a double bluff. They knew Tom was evil, so they knew that Tom knew that whoever he accused would seem good.
@@monsignorjameshaving both a noble and investigator in an 8 player game is crazy. Good custom scripts would have one of these roles on the grimoire. They basically serve the same purpose (99% of the time a noble sees a minion).
@@monsignorjames for the low number of players they had 4 non drunk information roles. Just Gee and Ben alone verified the minion. And then the noble is easy to hit rt from there
mafia a game where you have no ghosting ...usually sets up 1 nerfed investigator with maybe 1 nerfed medic , bodyguard or vigi and the rest are just plain town or neutral roles. Even in that subdued scenario town has statistcal win bias. Let alone 3 investigators and a day1 2 person trust circle , moreover in mafia either mafioso can win. Here you only need to kill the demon This game was mathematically unwinable for the demon. It was solved on day 2, it was just a matter of piecing the info togather Gee knows tom is a minion And ravs knows rt is a 33% demon In my mind rt played a flawless demon , but the odds were too stacked. He even was aware that killing ravs is a dead givaway for himslef so he killed boba instead. It takes exactly 3 turns to hunt the demon down in worst case. Moreover in mafia you can fallback on the role of simple townfolk in order to hide as mafioso , you dont need to fabricate any tells or keep track of your own lies as much. In bloid on the clock tower its easier to profile people. There is a very good reason why people use nerfed roles in low ppl count games
@@Jaime_Protein_CannisterTo be fair, Ravs was revealed as the grandchild in a room of literally every player alive and dead except two people. RT probably could've just gotten the kill. You're right that staying his hand even after it became obvious was probably a good idea though. ("I, the grandmother, would like to add someone to our blind trust gang. I just have a good feeling that we can trust him: the guy who was super reluctant to die yesterday!") Truly the identity of the grandchild was a mystery. This is a lesson in keeping your cards close to your chest even among friends-in the scenario where RT truly was a good mayor, the demon could've assumed he was the grandchild if he and the grandmother were constantly meeting one on one. Then you get some fun-for-the-whole-family mayor bounces*. Spending time with Ravs in public isn't a good idea. *I know of storytellers who would deliberately choose to bounce the mayor kill onto the grandchild in this hypothetical. Those are not good storytellers. The demon had better be about to lose in night two if you try that kind of spiteful malarkey.
Who's a good lil' wolfy! *rubs your stomach* (Please don't eat me in the night... although you're probably too busy licking up the spillage from outside the pub) It's genuinely great to see you in another game! Watching you lot play this is fantastic. These yogs-based games are my first introduction to blood on the clocktower and I'm definitely here for it
@@HaydenLau.Tom was rough for the new players but tbf Rt is probably one of the worst players, other than maybe Ben. Previously round RT was a Noble picked the demon as 100% innocent then ignored everything else, they only won this video because the innocents outmatched his incompetence by using all of their votes to keep him alive 😂😂 He keeps it funny and interesting though since you never know what ludicrous play he’s gonna make
54:57 Ben doing a complete 180 on Gee due to the harpy madness is so great. “Had a rethink overnight,” indeed. Also, Tom put so much work in for evil even after being basically outed. It’s so good. In an investigator ping with the grandchild? AND in a seamstress no? Actual god. THE IMP PLAY LOL RT: this is gonna cause so much chaos! “so it’s obvious right, that Dan was the imp and now Tom is the demon?” “Yeah,” “yep” “‘s kinda obvious” “that’s what I think! And “Ooooh. We lose.” This episode absolutely cooked.
the investigator ping being with grandchild is honestly even funnier retrospectively since the actual choice wasn't even supposed to be grandchild, which would've made the game notably harder as well
The play that made the innocents lose was not killing Tom for so long after knowing he was 100% a minion and instead choosing to try and guess the demon. RT did an excellent play with executing Sophie, and that was the definitive play there. If they instead had chosen to kill Tom, then RT would've been cornered with not many plays other than just keeping killing every night and hope for the best. All the evidence of Tom being the minion was there, but they didn't capitalize on it.
No , they didnt kill rt even tho they knew that demon has to be between himself or ben. Ravs is a comfirmed noble , that information is unquestionable... Boba can vouch and ped can vouch. You have to kill ben or rt...period. Ghost tied that vote because Yogscaat guarantee
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory is the saying, same as snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. First heard that on Taskmaster when the contestants specifically went over what they needed to do and lost the contest.
@@just.Athena Hmmm, interesting. Perhaps we have a situation where two similar sayings resulted from divergent cultures. I wonder if there are two separate points of origin or if one is an evolution from the other? Like coming down the pipe vs pike...
Nope! You're both agreeing that it's 'jaws' not face, Athena's just arguing about the origin date of the idiom for no reason :) hope that helps! @ringoAKAfabio Innocents actually had 0% chance of winning without RT deciding to do *further* misplays. This is because the evil team could purposefully draw any votes the innocent team produced against Tom, allowing Tom to then get one final kill during the night and ending the game (if just two players are left alive, evil wins). Hope this helps! :)
Hope you had fun! Was great to see you in the video and you did good! Clocktower is a hard game and this isn't an easy script for new players, get Lewis to run some more trouble brewing!
As long as you learn from it it works. It's a shame you weren't playing with more experienced players, because an experienced player probably would have avoided killing you in case you were a raven keeper or soldier (if it was trouble brewing) but this script has a lack of trap roles like that. You got good info, and died early, which made your info of good use to town, fortune tellers that live too long get doubted anyway.
and ironically the info she just straight up fucked up put town in a more advantageous position. tom was still sussed, both boba and ravs were basically instantly convinced of tom's guilt (with ben joining team tom-is-sus later), and made it a very difficult position to claw out of if town wasn't allergic to killing minions and tom wasn't a god tier social manipulator she gorped her way into a heavily favoured town script and town still scuffed it, i love these videos
@@DoodleBugGamesit didn't matter. 2 votes for Tom, then Tom nominates either of the other 2 and his plus RT vote ties it so no execution, go to night, kill.
I like RT's cartoon villain stutter over at 1:23:00 Tom: Such a convenient late game bluff tho RT: It's not a late game bluff, I've actually convi- conv- *confided* this
@SuperCactusman No, if he killed Ravs, him and boba would have died and only Tom, RT, and Ben would be left and that's 2 v 1 and automatic win. No way anything else is a better play.
@@matildamichel3463 Its not a auto win becease of ghost votes. But if he waited and killed somebody else and then ravs the night after it is a auto win since only 2 people are alive in the morning. If he tried it early they would know somebody in the room was bad and maby vote him out.
I just realized what Ben was trying to do on the last day. He was trying to say that Tom wasn't bad because if he broke harpy madness it could potentially kill Tom.
I dunno if he was thinking it? He could’ve said out that he was being harpied but he still denied it to the end :( but I was hoping it would’ve came into play and got Tom
@@kloaf1131 they went into the last day with equal votes for both teams, no matter who the demon was. Therefore if you are Ben and were told "***Either one of you*** or both could die from breaking madness" then the only way to potentially kill Tom is to break madness.
I was just about to comment the same thing. If Tom had leaned into the chaos and said yes I wonder how things would have shaken out. Sophie probably falls on the sword to protect Tom
Theoretically couldnt the demon at any point tell a random innocent that theyre their marionette? Its risky but could essentially trick an innocent into playing as evil
@@louish5068that’s the trouble with the marionette in general - the target has to believe it. If they don’t, if they’re given reason to believe their ability is working properly, turning on their ‘demon’ can be real nasty for evil. For that reason, it’s safer if a minion claims to be demon to a fake marionette.
Id love it so much to be able to listen to the post-game chats between the players after these, in the form of a members video or something. The brief few minute recap at the end is not enough lol
I feel like Tom trying to kill RT would've been such a throw if there was any consistency to the information. We lost a lot of context to the cutting room floor I feel, but there was very little information being actually exchanged. Someone would learn something and want to keep it close to their chest instead of using it to barter for different information, or at least communicate what they've learned to others. So many blunders on the townsfolk's part could have been avoided if they would have just let more information flow. As I'm learning though, there's always some wonky interaction that throws people off (Tom harpying Ben, and RT killing himself, technically nullifying the harpy, but also technically preventing Ben from voting, in this case).
Just saying a grandmother with a lunatic child who thinks the grandmother is their minion would be hilarious because it should be equivalent to a demon with a marionette who thinks they're a grandmother.
But wouldn't the grandmother then learn that the grandchild is the lunatic? Since the grandmother learns their grandchild's actual role and they would just know that they are not demon and minion. So it really wouldn't work mechanically. But you could run a game where the actual marionnette thinks they are a grandmother and that the actual demon is their grandchild and give the demon the option of hiding it
@@jakebower587 marionette gets false info, so the story teller could tell the marionette grandma that theyre demon is the lunatic. they could be either minnion and demon, or lunatic and grandmother, and they would have no way to know.
@@vivil2533 well the demon eventually would tell them. they would be adjacent to the demon. And the demon can call kills in a row. Theres no definitive way but you can make it extremely obvious
@@vivil2533 correction: they could eventually know because the lunatic could be checked by things like seamstress, ravenkeeper, fortune teller, or empath.
Only 30 minutes in but I just wanted to say. Lewis does an awesome job as narrator/moderator, but I would really like to see him participate as a player in the game at some point. Lewis is just too funny not to.
I think Lewis would change the dynamic of the entire game. He's a bit more shouty and excitable than everyone else, the discussion would be more argumentative. Maybe one or two episodes but I like him as the calm storyteller.
Thanks to Gee's misremembered information, they had every reason to suspect Tom. I was surprised when he wasn't voted out Day One, nevermind when he survived all the way to the end of the game.
Man I puckered up when RT sacrificed himself for turning his Harpy into the demon I thought he had lost but then the realization that there were no more ghost boats in play ah magnificent. I don't think that BM was intentional but boy howdy would I be mad if that was me
That wouldn't have ended the game, it would have gone to the next day with 3p alive, same as actually happened. Evil does not win when they outnumber Good, they win only when 2 players remain
@amaryllis0 they don't win if they outnumber good players but they win if there aren't enough votes to kill them. With only 1 ghost vote and 2v1 evil v innocent, there weren't enough votes to kill either demon.
I swear, every episode of this just gets better and better. That insane play by RT in the final two rounds was a thing of beauty. I can't believe that actually worked and made the ending a surprise for everyone playing. Absolutely genius.
Another really fun game. Felt like town found the one possible line to losing with that vote tying and using all the ghost votes after a pretty strong consensus on who the demon was. I think most credit goes to Tom for throwing some doubt on the situation but really they just seemed to panic. Of course that’s easy to say from the comfort of my couch and the combination of new players and such a long game made it really hard to make the right calls.
I can't quite tell if Lewis says "can" or "can't" nominate dead players, especially with "We'll allow it" at the end; but for the record, you absolutely can. In fact, if the Demon is a Zombie (not on this script) you /have/ to kill them twice! And there's one demon that wins if the town doesn't execute every day too, so re-killing a corpse can be used as a stall.
1:32:00 It's not silly-- this is why the night order matters. The developers of this game are REALLY meticulous and have thought of almost every role interaction.
I agree, and him announcing "it was a demon that did it" with a Lycanthrope in the script. I usually love Lewis but as the storyteller in this series it's been frustrating.
They know Tom is evil from day 1, they know he's a minion, from day 2 they know he's a harpy, and a harpy is really disrupting the game. And night after night no one nominates him. I'm pulling my hair out.
Its not necessery to kill the minion , its a waste of a turn. Especially if you know what they do , they're harmless. The only one worth killing is poisoner... Only killing demon ends the game
@@Jaime_Protein_Cannister If an Imp is in play, like this game, there's no reason to not get rid of an obvious thorn in the towns side and a possible flip flop play
@Jaime_Protein_Cannister we know since we have all the sides of the conversation, but they don't know for sure due to the possibility of lying/ abilities not working/drunk/ harpy RP causing confusion. It's never going to be as cut and dry from their perspective.
@@HmongHeroo That's not true You can make a judgement with a high degree of accuracy. Based on information that is known to the public. To have 3 investigators on a 8 player team is almost impossible to loose for town. All the necessary information to win is out in the open on day 2. The Drunk is PRACTICALLY known , the Minion is known in fact it is double checked, Boba even publically states what kind of minion they're facing too. Hence Sophie has to be drunk if she is to be believed. The Demon is known with 33% of accuracy, since poisoner is known to be absent. Ravs offers that information on round 1 while willing to sacrifice himself and boba can vouch. It's impossible for ALL of this information to be wrong at the same time. You only need to pressure people who Gee and Ravs nominate to go onto the block. Walk these pepople down the plank , while forming yout trust circles , you will get closer to a win. Mathematically The Demon has not enuf turns (or tempo) to win. You only need 5 kills in worst case scenario. From Ben's and Gee's perspective you can tell Tom is too shifty , it's obvious to them , they had never had shadow of a doubt. Therfore you need only hit the 33% between the rav's finds.
mscupcakes is ace in these, please have them back whenever they can make it Bon and Tem's giggling at Ben's confidence in Gee's guilt was so fucking funny and please get Rythian back when he can make it And and and, RT and Tom played a CRACKING game
Lewis should've killed Ben multiple times for his extremely unconvincing lies under the effects of the harpy, two days in a row his entire reasoning was "I just think it is X now suddenly... uhh just because I do" which isn't even remotely trying to conceal it; as made clear by both times he said it every single player instantly going "okay Ben has been harpied" just causing the evil team to inadvertently confirm good players because Lewis didn't kill them for it.
To be fair: * One of the people going "OK Ben has to be harpied" was Tom, the actual harpy who already knew that. * Keeping Ben alive was actually HELPFUL to team evil since it allowed them to push on him (the demon had to be between Ben and RT). EVen if Ben had outright said "I am harpy mad, please kill me Lewis" (which would have been a great play), Lewis should have refused, specifically because it was a good play.
Eh... I guess with some groups it probably works better but the Harpy seems like a shit role, because in too many scenarios the line between "not pushing it enough" and "being so pushy you give it away" is almost non-existent. It's so ambiguous because, unlike the Cerenovus, their 'bluff' is aimed at someone else and has to be substantiated - they can't claim to have been lying about their role for X or Y reason, they suddenly just have to turn against a player and accuse them even when there is no reasonable way to back it up - like with Ben and Gee. So they get placed in an awkward position where if they lay low about it they die, and if they push it they die. I reckon allowing them to ham it up like Ben did should be the point, and the Harpy should have to pick their targets in a smarter way rather than try and get people killed by giving them complete bullshit they have to pretend or die. But that gives too much leeway and effectively makes it a bit underpowered as a minion. Either way, it's probably not the right role to have for a group that is a bunch of entertainers actively making content.
@@BalthorYT Sorry it's a long one! I do think it's genuinely worth a read though as I do fully explain my point if you're interested. Mad - "...if the Storyteller thinks that a player has not put **effort to convince the group** of the thing they are mad about, then a penalty may apply..." It's not supposed to be trying to convince people you think its them, it's you trying to convince people it is them. Just because Ben didn't even attempt to think of any reason why he would suddenly think Gee is evil on the night she died (She killed herself as Imp, one very simple and reasonable opinion that could've convinced people he wasn't harpied without Really pushing him hard on going into detail) doesn't mean that "there is no reasonable way to back it up" because there were many ways to, especially if he said he might be drunk etc and then he doesn't have to lie about his role like you said; he didn't even take a moment to think of a reason he just woke up each day and said hahaha I actually think its this person now ""why?" I just do, that's not convincing whatsoever and he knew he wasn't trying to convince them as he joked about it and that's the point of the harpy it forces players to either seed doubt or die and likely confirm their innocence in their death, Lewis's refusal to punish Ben though Bens entirely unconvincing madness just caused players to "confirm" the majority of players as good because of it and clearly the bad team recognised that no matter what was said Lewis wouldn't punish them so they jumped in on the harpy calling dogpile towards the end. And on the entertainment side, their personalities are the entertainment, the game is too, they still joke around and can be themselves whilst actually adhering to their roles - From watching No Rolls Barred play the harpy is a very strong and super fun role as it stops players giving the information they want to give whilst giving them the choice to take themselves out and let the others know, but it doesn't work when most of the players don't even have a base understanding of the game which the yogscast are not exactly known for being good at games especially when half the players are new.
I gave Nilesy some flack for his role madness before, because, to me he was obvious, and in a way the showed he was mad. I strongly considered this while analysiing Ben's own actions. I think Ben actually did not only more than what team evil expected of him(Tom chose him explicitly because he'd be loud, which he was), but did what Ben would do if he was evil or innocent but clueless. Ben isn't great at defending arguments he doesn't believe in, or finding ways to twist things so that something can be interpreted different from how he understands a situation(he could've called Gee the Imp, but I think he just straight up didn't consider it). When he believes something, he is good at pushing it, but when he feels uncertain or knows he is incorrect, he pushes it but his arguments ring hollow. That said, he went as far as to try to kill the people he was mad about each time(and targeting dead Gee, funny enough would've been possibly brilliant in a different script), starting votes for each and voting for each, other than Tom. This is a step above what he is called to do, and might seem odd, but he also argued other people, which is about the only way he could obscure his madness, when the other were more suspect. The difference between him and Nilesy is... he barely played different while mad than he would while evil or clueless but obstinate. He fulfilled his obligations, plus a little extra.
"What are the odds you're an Investigator? 1 in 20. It's statistically more likely that you're a minion or a demon" It could work, but I'm loving that Ben Work will either win it for Tom or doom him. It could be either.
Why? What other choice did he have? Any other kill would lead to the Imp getting executed during the day. Maybe offing himself there could work if it would make the town execute Ben the following day but Boba was the safer play.
@@guggebuggeThough the two dead grandson and grandma would still have their ghost votes, and be ticked off that the demon had been in that room with them.
I think that "It's not a bluff, i actually convinc-CONFIDED..." at 1:23:00 was a probably the clearest case of Freudean slip i ever heard. What an episode!
So good. 100 minutes long and watched it all in one sitting and it flew by. Absolutely worth the membership to get these early and support this video series! 🎉
The moment the Ghost votes were used to lift the execution of RTGame, the game was over. Good did not have enough votes to put the demon on the block the next day. They should've not tied since they all believed TOM was evil. Meaning 2 evil votes minimum the next day.
39 mins in and I thought I was going crazy remembering that Gee was told it was between Tom & Pedguin, but went back and checked and yep she accidentally said Ravs 😅 that said I’ve got over and hour left of video to see how it shakes out 👀
The combination of Boba being forced to pretend Pedguin was bad and Gee knowing that either Pedguin/Tom was harpy, could have immediately outed Tom. Luckily Gee forgot her info and Boba didn't really accuse Ped.
Love these episodes and glad you’re bringing some more people into it! Also love that you’re changing up the roles, it always keeps it interesting. So many misplays in this one-makes it so entertaining to watch wondering what’ll happen! I wish you guys would do this more than every two weeks!!
Plus Gee accidentally instantly revealing one of the evil roles, with the evil teams plan being to make Tom into the demon. TBH it’s something of a miracle that the evil team won
I half expected Ben to go against the Harpy rules during that final day in an attempt to get himself and Tom killed but then remembered Tom becoming the Imp cancels it
I got introduced to this game by RTGame, and im already so invested in the series and all the roles The one Demon role I want to see the most is the Yaggababble, imagine the phrase "That's crazy"/"That is so insane" whenever someone dies at night, but i would like to hear what the player's own catchphrase is haha
Huge shoutout to the immense amount of formatting and scripting work that must have gone into making a coherent viewpoint for this. I've never been big on watching these kinds of mass deduction games, but this omniscient viewpoint, carefully pruned to the key discussions is just stellar.
This is SUCH a good game, I'm so glad they gave it another chance, a proper chance. It does require a LOT of work to set up, and a LOT of people as well. But I think we've seen throughout all of this, that it is SOOOO worth it. Thank you guys for thoroughly entertaining me.
It says may die so it’s all up to the storyteller. Death is information, so Lewis might’ve thought it would be more useful to the town if he killed Boba over it
given that Lewis had a cut in specifically explaining that Boba was pushing for Ped hard and it got cut in the edit, she probably felt it was fufilled enough to not get a likely innocent killed
@@atigersgrin There is a minion called "assassin" which can kill anyone, no matter what. That is the normal power level for a minion: 1 free kill. Harpy maybe killing 1 person if they aren't convincing enough is fine by comparison (remember, a player can break madness and take the penalty at any time)
I think RT played a really convincing town role, trying to work with the town to deduce who is evil and put the info together. He did really well in consistently convincing the townsfolk he was one of them, making them doubt their judgement when he was on the chopping block. Really fun game to watch!
I did not think that this series would keep getting better - especially after the previous episode, but oh my goodness!! This was amazing. It just keeps on getting better and better. Once again, congratulations to everyone involved.
The night RT killed Boba, he could have killed Ravs instead and I'm pretty sure they would have won. Instead he spent another 3 days trolling literally everyone, including his minion, to the very last second.
If RT killed Ravs, that would put a lot of sus on him (Ravs did relay that info to him), and considering people were caught on with Tom being bad, would’ve been a game right then and there Edit: Not braining rn, yeah think you’re right?Town would vote out rt and tom would kill last town. But ghost votes would be in effect on the night of boba kill, don’t know how that plays out.
@@amaryllis0 oh k thanks for clear up. Still wondering why ghosties did what they did?At least RT kinda makes sense in hindsight (Killing Ravs doesn’t autowin for evil and killing himself wouldn’t change the outcome i think?)
@@gitfanaticBut ravs told basically everyone at the same time that he was the grandson, why would it put sus on Rt specifically when everyone was in the room including Ben. Made for a great video but this round was covered in terrible plays from both sides, Rt not killing ravs and then the town drawing the vote on Rt despite knowing that meant a guaranteed loss the next day.
I think what really threw this round for such a gigantic loop is that everyone was some kind of significant info role, Grandmother and Noble Grandson, a Seamstress, a Fortune Teller, AN INVESTIGATOR, and Drunk Werewolf ... ALL That combined WITH THE HARPY omg especially the harpy turned this round into a nightmare tornado of whos who... This was crazy
I love how every good doubt was followed by incredible plays by evil, wasting that many ghost votes to tie is crazy. (Of course a few good players were new so experience may of prevented this but it's amazing regardless)
I love how instantly Gee messed up her info day one xD. And then Ravs goes and tells the person he was told could be the minion his role instead of gee and ben
Gee immediately forgetting her info changed literally everything about the game. It was so stacked against Tom and RT as soon as that “info” was shared that I have no idea how they managed to pull of a win. Fantastic game by those two
Tom definitely won this for the baddies. His double bluffing was masterful. Although I think it helped he already is known to have a strong relationship with Ben, thus making a Sharky and Palp Demon Team all the more believable.
I feel like boba isn’t doing the Harpy affliction right. At the very least I feel like boba should have voted for Ben when Tom put him up for affliction.
It would’ve been nice to see the cut footage, because I was convinced Boba just flat out forgot and was going to get herself killed because she said so little about it
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You can tell Tom was trying so hard to decide whether to say yes or no when sophie asked if he was her demon. That long silence he was thinking so hard lol
Tom not immediately saying yes feels like a massive misplay
@@EzekiesAcheron Actually very smart from Tom to say no. He knows that the Harpy minion can't really be concealed, and the second sophie realizes this she would obviously know Tom is lying.
Not that that makes a difference, since the town seemed hell bent on leaving Tom alive no matter the evidence lmao.
@@goodtimesaelfred Doesn't seem so, Tom's primary goal as the Harpy was to cause chaos, all he had to do was keep Sophie convinced for one day that she was the Marionette and he was the Demon to get 3 total votes in favour of killing whoever they wanted. Plus there was no hard evidence she wasn't the marionette, so it probably wouldn't have been known until the next day, at which point they would've already killed a townsmember via execution with the votes they had.
My guess is, he wasn't confident that he could come up with lies on the spot like that. He wasn't expecting that, so it took him by surprise and he had to either be safe and say "no" or take a longer time to respond, making it even more suspicious
@@goodtimesaelfred Yeah, seems so. I mean Tom was basically saying "I'm an empath with a 0. There are two pings on me but I think one of the people who pinged on me is a minion and the demon is my neighbor, from whom I got an 0 from."
Failure to use occum's razor and a failure to notice the contradiction.
having RT on the stand and marked for execution, only to see 20 minutes left in the video was incredibly stressful
Tom knowing that order 65 is the order that makes the clones kill the emperor is amazing. Thats why he got worried there after ravs said execute order 65 and i love that he knows that
Amazing
Absolute mad dedication, what was Ravs thinking though??
@@phoneybaloney9158 he didn't think RT was the demon, and earlier Ravs had specifically said "both Tom and Sophie need to go, but kill Sophie first."
Timestamp: 1:03:35
"Give your defense." "I think that you're dumb little babies and you couldn't kill me if you wanted to." 😂😂😂
and he was RIGHT 🤣
Tom goes from “It’s too early to think” to wide flipping awake the moment he smells a chance to sew chaos.
He was practically telling them he was evil...AND THEY STILL DIDN'T VOTE FOR HIM!
How the hell did RTGs "mayor" bluff HOLD UP? If he WAS the mayor then the Town would have won automatically. and they didn't.
@@jaywerner8415 They wouldn't have, because at that point there were 4 people left alive and not 3.
the fact Sophie was the drunk made her RP wolf howl so much funnier
I was hoping she'd make it sound like a drunk wolf after a few nights!
Running out in the full moon to blow her paycheck
E amount of likes, perfect for this comment lmao
Tom doing the math then declaring and deposing that they couldn’t kill them if they tried is amazing!
He is the senate!
I think they could though? Tom gets 2 votes and marked, RT has to use his ghost vote to tie, then the next day Ben and Ravs vote to kill Tom, no?
Pretty sure RT threw, at least until Ben threw harder.
I love democracy.
His math was wrong though. The townies could have still won had they played correctly, but both living townies fucking threw it in the toilet. Ben flopped by not voting for Tom when he was literally COMPELLED to think and act like Tom was bad. Ravs flopped the second chance by voting and dooming the town to an un-tieable situation, leaving Tom to kill the last player in the night. Had they baited out RT's vote onto Ben then tied the vote with both innocent votes, they could have tanked the murder in the night and executed tom with a 1 living 1 ghost vote the next day.
@@Obscurite1221 nah, there's a rule where evil wins if 2 players are left and one is the demon.
Also I'm pretty sure each player can only be nominated once, so Ravs' only hope was that Ben was doing the longest con, and Tom and RT were somehow good.
Tom earns his Palpatine robes every time with these plays. Actual Sith Lord level manipulation every time!
Gotta give RT credit too, they had some SERIOUS Machiavellian schemes going on together. A new devious pair of killers...
I love how Tom always stands up on the back of his chair in the town. Its such a power move, and I think it contributes to him being so good at this game
The High Ground is a powerful advantage.
Toms play of being openly evil and pushing for RTs execution saved the game for them, because everyone thought the minion wouldnt openly try to kill his demon.
Not only did he spread enough doubt to save RT, he made them use every single ghost vote to do it!
I couldn't believe how much that swayed people!
I really thought they would realize that it was a double bluff. They knew Tom was evil, so they knew that Tom knew that whoever he accused would seem good.
Tom's classic "Kill your traitor partner" strat-50% of the time, it works 100% of the time.
You can see him get the idea from Ravs in their conversation right before.
Tom MVP!
Playing an "outed evil" misdirection bluff and pulling it off to secure victory is brilliant.
"Oh, the way it is set-up, this should be an easy win for the townsfolk."
*Checks video length*
Yogscast guarantee
I assume there are forums of good setups for even games? And you think this is a bad one
@@monsignorjameshaving both a noble and investigator in an 8 player game is crazy.
Good custom scripts would have one of these roles on the grimoire. They basically serve the same purpose (99% of the time a noble sees a minion).
@@monsignorjames for the low number of players they had 4 non drunk information roles. Just Gee and Ben alone verified the minion. And then the noble is easy to hit rt from there
mafia a game where you have no ghosting
...usually sets up 1 nerfed investigator with maybe 1 nerfed medic , bodyguard or vigi and the rest are just plain town or neutral roles.
Even in that subdued scenario town has statistcal win bias.
Let alone 3 investigators and a day1
2 person trust circle , moreover in mafia either mafioso can win.
Here you only need to kill the demon
This game was mathematically unwinable for the demon.
It was solved on day 2, it was just a matter of piecing the info togather
Gee knows tom is a minion
And ravs knows rt is a 33% demon
In my mind rt played a flawless demon , but the odds were too stacked. He even was aware that killing ravs is a dead givaway for himslef so he killed boba instead.
It takes exactly 3 turns to hunt the demon down in worst case.
Moreover in mafia you can fallback on the role of simple townfolk in order to hide as mafioso , you dont need to fabricate any tells or keep track of your own lies as much.
In bloid on the clock tower its easier to profile people.
There is a very good reason why people use nerfed roles in low ppl count games
@@Jaime_Protein_CannisterTo be fair, Ravs was revealed as the grandchild in a room of literally every player alive and dead except two people.
RT probably could've just gotten the kill. You're right that staying his hand even after it became obvious was probably a good idea though.
("I, the grandmother, would like to add someone to our blind trust gang. I just have a good feeling that we can trust him: the guy who was super reluctant to die yesterday!")
Truly the identity of the grandchild was a mystery. This is a lesson in keeping your cards close to your chest even among friends-in the scenario where RT truly was a good mayor, the demon could've assumed he was the grandchild if he and the grandmother were constantly meeting one on one. Then you get some fun-for-the-whole-family mayor bounces*. Spending time with Ravs in public isn't a good idea.
*I know of storytellers who would deliberately choose to bounce the mayor kill onto the grandchild in this hypothetical. Those are not good storytellers. The demon had better be about to lose in night two if you try that kind of spiteful malarkey.
Listen... I can explain the werewolf noises 🐺
we know
Who's a good lil' wolfy! *rubs your stomach* (Please don't eat me in the night... although you're probably too busy licking up the spillage from outside the pub)
It's genuinely great to see you in another game! Watching you lot play this is fantastic. These yogs-based games are my first introduction to blood on the clocktower and I'm definitely here for it
I mean getting drunk and howling at the moon is the same as being a werewolf in some parts of the world.
The only explanation I want is how you did such a convincing howl because damn that was so impressive
It's fine, Sophie!
95% of my friends are furries. You don't have to explain anything.
There was some impressive incompetence in this one, a real beauty
Lewis is more mad than anyone else in this video because he put a bunch of brand new players against Tom in a pretty complicated script.
Seriously, ahahahaha
@@rileygoddard7181
Tom and RT, no less
@@HaydenLau.Tom was rough for the new players but tbf Rt is probably one of the worst players, other than maybe Ben. Previously round RT was a Noble picked the demon as 100% innocent then ignored everything else, they only won this video because the innocents outmatched his incompetence by using all of their votes to keep him alive 😂😂 He keeps it funny and interesting though since you never know what ludicrous play he’s gonna make
@@charonetwo RT is not analytically brilliant but is better at the social part of social deduction
Tom's final "shit the bed!" was so genuine 😂😂😂
54:57 Ben doing a complete 180 on Gee due to the harpy madness is so great. “Had a rethink overnight,” indeed.
Also, Tom put so much work in for evil even after being basically outed. It’s so good. In an investigator ping with the grandchild? AND in a seamstress no? Actual god.
THE IMP PLAY LOL
RT: this is gonna cause so much chaos!
“so it’s obvious right, that Dan was the imp and now Tom is the demon?”
“Yeah,” “yep” “‘s kinda obvious” “that’s what I think!
And “Ooooh. We lose.”
This episode absolutely cooked.
the investigator ping being with grandchild is honestly even funnier retrospectively since the actual choice wasn't even supposed to be grandchild, which would've made the game notably harder as well
The play that made the innocents lose was not killing Tom for so long after knowing he was 100% a minion and instead choosing to try and guess the demon. RT did an excellent play with executing Sophie, and that was the definitive play there. If they instead had chosen to kill Tom, then RT would've been cornered with not many plays other than just keeping killing every night and hope for the best. All the evidence of Tom being the minion was there, but they didn't capitalize on it.
No , they didnt kill rt even tho they knew that demon has to be between himself or ben.
Ravs is a comfirmed noble , that information is unquestionable...
Boba can vouch and ped can vouch.
You have to kill ben or rt...period.
Ghost tied that vote because Yogscaat guarantee
The actual definition of snatching defeat in the face of victory. Innocents had it mostly figured out immediately and still lost 😂
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory is the saying, same as snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. First heard that on Taskmaster when the contestants specifically went over what they needed to do and lost the contest.
@@TheSilverOrn What? The switch up of that idiom has been around since at least the 1840s according to Wiktionary.
@@just.Athena Hmmm, interesting. Perhaps we have a situation where two similar sayings resulted from divergent cultures. I wonder if there are two separate points of origin or if one is an evolution from the other? Like coming down the pipe vs pike...
Nope! You're both agreeing that it's 'jaws' not face, Athena's just arguing about the origin date of the idiom for no reason :) hope that helps!
@ringoAKAfabio Innocents actually had 0% chance of winning without RT deciding to do *further* misplays. This is because the evil team could purposefully draw any votes the innocent team produced against Tom, allowing Tom to then get one final kill during the night and ending the game (if just two players are left alive, evil wins). Hope this helps! :)
The dan killing himself already felt like a horrible misplay, in addition to Dan not killing Ravs when it would kill both Ravs and Boba
The most unbelievable part of this whole thing, the part I NEVER saw coming in the history of the yogscast. Was Lewis doing jumping puzzles for fun.
This was my first game and I don't think I made that clear to anyone so I was kinda confused about what I was supposed to be doing 😂
Go easy on me ty
NOOB! get rekt'd
Youll get it down and be screaming at others for being dumb soon enough lmfao
You did great Ped!
Hope you had fun! Was great to see you in the video and you did good! Clocktower is a hard game and this isn't an easy script for new players, get Lewis to run some more trouble brewing!
As long as you learn from it it works. It's a shame you weren't playing with more experienced players, because an experienced player probably would have avoided killing you in case you were a raven keeper or soldier (if it was trouble brewing) but this script has a lack of trap roles like that. You got good info, and died early, which made your info of good use to town, fortune tellers that live too long get doubted anyway.
A nearly 2 hour episode named after Tom's role? This is gonna be a good one.
I love that the entirety of this game, and even the video itself hinges on Gee forgetting information at the very start.
This bunch isn't known for their capacity, as I'm sure you are aware
Between everyone i the video, most of the information is forgotten
and ironically the info she just straight up fucked up put town in a more advantageous position. tom was still sussed, both boba and ravs were basically instantly convinced of tom's guilt (with ben joining team tom-is-sus later), and made it a very difficult position to claw out of if town wasn't allergic to killing minions and tom wasn't a god tier social manipulator
she gorped her way into a heavily favoured town script and town still scuffed it, i love these videos
"This one went a bit long", Music to my ears Lewis. Lets go.
Spoiler reaction to the end of the game in my comments.
LOOOL what a throw by the ghosts 😂
I was sat shouting at the screen 😂😂
WHY DIDNT BEN VOTE
@@Nanyah3 it also made SENSE for him to vote because he thought he had to be Convinced it was Tom!!!
@@DoodleBugGamesit didn't matter. 2 votes for Tom, then Tom nominates either of the other 2 and his plus RT vote ties it so no execution, go to night, kill.
Tom is consistently my favourite part of these videos
Tom is great, I miss him in TTT
This and Jaffa Factory 2 are both just *chefs kiss*
agreed
This is the most scuff game I've seen, innocent team just went well "if it looks like a duck, taste like a duck, it probably is NOT a duck"
I like RT's cartoon villain stutter over at 1:23:00
Tom: Such a convenient late game bluff tho
RT: It's not a late game bluff, I've actually convi- conv- *confided* this
“How convinced are you Ben?” “100%” “Okay I trust Ben now” *frantic giggling* Tom and Ben are the best combo, prove me wrong
Ravs: "If you kill me, its a two for one special."
RT: Chooses to kill Boba.
🤦♂
To be fair it wouldn't have changed the number of days in the game, and makes him look very trustworthy by not pursuing that tactic.
@SuperCactusman No, if he killed Ravs, him and boba would have died and only Tom, RT, and Ben would be left and that's 2 v 1 and automatic win. No way anything else is a better play.
Well not automatic but much easier of a win
@@matildamichel3463 Its not a auto win becease of ghost votes. But if he waited and killed somebody else and then ravs the night after it is a auto win since only 2 people are alive in the morning.
If he tried it early they would know somebody in the room was bad and maby vote him out.
@@matildamichel3463 This is why Ghost Votes are a thing. 2v1 Evil vs Innocent isn't an automatic Evil win.
I just realized what Ben was trying to do on the last day. He was trying to say that Tom wasn't bad because if he broke harpy madness it could potentially kill Tom.
I dunno if he was thinking it? He could’ve said out that he was being harpied but he still denied it to the end :( but I was hoping it would’ve came into play and got Tom
@salty_saint_7914 it wouldn't have came into play because of how the rules work.
@@rileygoddard7181 if fact if that play did result in deaths. it meant an instant lose for the good team.
@@kloaf1131 they went into the last day with equal votes for both teams, no matter who the demon was. Therefore if you are Ben and were told "***Either one of you*** or both could die from breaking madness" then the only way to potentially kill Tom is to break madness.
@@kloaf1131 How so? But Lewis explained that breaking madness had no effect anymore because the harpy had died.
55:06 "Yes."
Imagine how different the game would've been with that bluff.
I was just about to comment the same thing. If Tom had leaned into the chaos and said yes I wonder how things would have shaken out. Sophie probably falls on the sword to protect Tom
@serotoninmd9691 She likely would've voted for whomever he told her to, making a pseudo evil team member.
Theoretically couldnt the demon at any point tell a random innocent that theyre their marionette? Its risky but could essentially trick an innocent into playing as evil
@ marionette has to be adjacent to the demon.
@@louish5068that’s the trouble with the marionette in general - the target has to believe it. If they don’t, if they’re given reason to believe their ability is working properly, turning on their ‘demon’ can be real nasty for evil.
For that reason, it’s safer if a minion claims to be demon to a fake marionette.
I am forever your Mayor :)
4 more years!!
Why did you needlessly elongate the game by killing yourself?
@@user-yl3pp8fy9wcause of course he did.
@@user-yl3pp8fy9w "Why did you give us more content?"
The drift mayor!
Id love it so much to be able to listen to the post-game chats between the players after these, in the form of a members video or something. The brief few minute recap at the end is not enough lol
Tom carried evil team SO HARD. The swap to just being openly evil and trying to kill his Imp was some top tier gameplay!
I feel like Tom trying to kill RT would've been such a throw if there was any consistency to the information. We lost a lot of context to the cutting room floor I feel, but there was very little information being actually exchanged. Someone would learn something and want to keep it close to their chest instead of using it to barter for different information, or at least communicate what they've learned to others. So many blunders on the townsfolk's part could have been avoided if they would have just let more information flow. As I'm learning though, there's always some wonky interaction that throws people off (Tom harpying Ben, and RT killing himself, technically nullifying the harpy, but also technically preventing Ben from voting, in this case).
Tom and RT are both operating on another dimension
@@violethill5781 Rt is pretty average, it was Tom who won basically.
More like Ben massively throwed it at the end
@@anonymouscommenter2425 It was impossible to win final day. 2 evil votes of 4, no majority , they would have tied and won at night.
This is the best series ever.
Tom is very good at analytical deduction, and RT is just a charm bomb. This is a dangerous combo
Just saying a grandmother with a lunatic child who thinks the grandmother is their minion would be hilarious because it should be equivalent to a demon with a marionette who thinks they're a grandmother.
This sounds hilarious and such a good idea ! 😂
But wouldn't the grandmother then learn that the grandchild is the lunatic? Since the grandmother learns their grandchild's actual role and they would just know that they are not demon and minion. So it really wouldn't work mechanically. But you could run a game where the actual marionnette thinks they are a grandmother and that the actual demon is their grandchild and give the demon the option of hiding it
@@jakebower587 marionette gets false info, so the story teller could tell the marionette grandma that theyre demon is the lunatic.
they could be either minnion and demon, or lunatic and grandmother, and they would have no way to know.
@@vivil2533 well the demon eventually would tell them. they would be adjacent to the demon. And the demon can call kills in a row. Theres no definitive way but you can make it extremely obvious
@@vivil2533 correction: they could eventually know because the lunatic could be checked by things like seamstress, ravenkeeper, fortune teller, or empath.
"That's how you know I'm not bluffing" says the drunk who thinks she's a werewolf lmao
Only 30 minutes in but I just wanted to say. Lewis does an awesome job as narrator/moderator, but I would really like to see him participate as a player in the game at some point. Lewis is just too funny not to.
Definitely! Who would make a good story teller?
@@didalright5901Tom!?
God yes please. Ben as story teller.
Send Lewis to play with NRB in person. :p
I think Lewis would change the dynamic of the entire game. He's a bit more shouty and excitable than everyone else, the discussion would be more argumentative. Maybe one or two episodes but I like him as the calm storyteller.
Thanks to Gee's misremembered information, they had every reason to suspect Tom. I was surprised when he wasn't voted out Day One, nevermind when he survived all the way to the end of the game.
Man I puckered up when RT sacrificed himself for turning his Harpy into the demon I thought he had lost but then the realization that there were no more ghost boats in play ah magnificent. I don't think that BM was intentional but boy howdy would I be mad if that was me
See if u can find a boat
That wouldn't have ended the game, it would have gone to the next day with 3p alive, same as actually happened. Evil does not win when they outnumber Good, they win only when 2 players remain
@amaryllis0 they don't win if they outnumber good players but they win if there aren't enough votes to kill them. With only 1 ghost vote and 2v1 evil v innocent, there weren't enough votes to kill either demon.
@@amaryllis0 this is correct.
@@scsc22would've been the same situation, there would be no ghost votes in play asides from whoever was killed in the last night
I swear, every episode of this just gets better and better. That insane play by RT in the final two rounds was a thing of beauty. I can't believe that actually worked and made the ending a surprise for everyone playing. Absolutely genius.
Ngl I cannot believe RT and Tom got away with that. And I love both of them dearly.
Another really fun game. Felt like town found the one possible line to losing with that vote tying and using all the ghost votes after a pretty strong consensus on who the demon was. I think most credit goes to Tom for throwing some doubt on the situation but really they just seemed to panic. Of course that’s easy to say from the comfort of my couch and the combination of new players and such a long game made it really hard to make the right calls.
I can't quite tell if Lewis says "can" or "can't" nominate dead players, especially with "We'll allow it" at the end; but for the record, you absolutely can. In fact, if the Demon is a Zombie (not on this script) you /have/ to kill them twice! And there's one demon that wins if the town doesn't execute every day too, so re-killing a corpse can be used as a stall.
He does indeed say can, and you are absolutely correct ^^ I had the very same thought!
Zombuul (the first time you die, you survive and only appear to be dead)
Vortox (if no one is executed today, evil wins)
1:32:00 It's not silly-- this is why the night order matters. The developers of this game are REALLY meticulous and have thought of almost every role interaction.
I agree, and him announcing "it was a demon that did it" with a Lycanthrope in the script. I usually love Lewis but as the storyteller in this series it's been frustrating.
They know Tom is evil from day 1, they know he's a minion, from day 2 they know he's a harpy, and a harpy is really disrupting the game.
And night after night no one nominates him. I'm pulling my hair out.
Its not necessery to kill the minion , its a waste of a turn. Especially if you know what they do , they're harmless.
The only one worth killing is poisoner...
Only killing demon ends the game
@@Jaime_Protein_Cannister If an Imp is in play, like this game, there's no reason to not get rid of an obvious thorn in the towns side and a possible flip flop play
@@HmongHeroo both of them are known on turn 2 by town , if imp kills himself situation doesnt change... in fact it simplifies the game.
@Jaime_Protein_Cannister we know since we have all the sides of the conversation, but they don't know for sure due to the possibility of lying/ abilities not working/drunk/ harpy RP causing confusion.
It's never going to be as cut and dry from their perspective.
@@HmongHeroo That's not true
You can make a judgement with a high degree of accuracy. Based on information that is known to the public.
To have 3 investigators on a 8 player team is almost impossible to loose for town.
All the necessary information to win is out in the open on day 2.
The Drunk is PRACTICALLY known , the Minion is known in fact it is double checked, Boba even publically states what kind of minion they're facing too.
Hence Sophie has to be drunk if she is to be believed.
The Demon is known with 33% of accuracy, since poisoner is known to be absent.
Ravs offers that information on round 1 while willing to sacrifice himself and boba can vouch.
It's impossible for ALL of this information to be wrong at the same time.
You only need to pressure people who Gee and Ravs nominate to go onto the block.
Walk these pepople down the plank , while forming yout trust circles , you will get closer to a win.
Mathematically The Demon has not enuf turns (or tempo) to win.
You only need 5 kills in worst case scenario.
From Ben's and Gee's perspective you can tell Tom is too shifty , it's obvious to them , they had never had shadow of a doubt.
Therfore you need only hit the 33% between the rav's finds.
mscupcakes is ace in these, please have them back whenever they can make it
Bon and Tem's giggling at Ben's confidence in Gee's guilt was so fucking funny
and please get Rythian back when he can make it
And and and, RT and Tom played a CRACKING game
❤
Lewis should've killed Ben multiple times for his extremely unconvincing lies under the effects of the harpy, two days in a row his entire reasoning was "I just think it is X now suddenly... uhh just because I do" which isn't even remotely trying to conceal it; as made clear by both times he said it every single player instantly going "okay Ben has been harpied" just causing the evil team to inadvertently confirm good players because Lewis didn't kill them for it.
I agree tbh
To be fair:
* One of the people going "OK Ben has to be harpied" was Tom, the actual harpy who already knew that.
* Keeping Ben alive was actually HELPFUL to team evil since it allowed them to push on him (the demon had to be between Ben and RT). EVen if Ben had outright said "I am harpy mad, please kill me Lewis" (which would have been a great play), Lewis should have refused, specifically because it was a good play.
Eh... I guess with some groups it probably works better but the Harpy seems like a shit role, because in too many scenarios the line between "not pushing it enough" and "being so pushy you give it away" is almost non-existent. It's so ambiguous because, unlike the Cerenovus, their 'bluff' is aimed at someone else and has to be substantiated - they can't claim to have been lying about their role for X or Y reason, they suddenly just have to turn against a player and accuse them even when there is no reasonable way to back it up - like with Ben and Gee. So they get placed in an awkward position where if they lay low about it they die, and if they push it they die.
I reckon allowing them to ham it up like Ben did should be the point, and the Harpy should have to pick their targets in a smarter way rather than try and get people killed by giving them complete bullshit they have to pretend or die. But that gives too much leeway and effectively makes it a bit underpowered as a minion.
Either way, it's probably not the right role to have for a group that is a bunch of entertainers actively making content.
@@BalthorYT Sorry it's a long one! I do think it's genuinely worth a read though as I do fully explain my point if you're interested.
Mad - "...if the Storyteller thinks that a player has not put **effort to convince the group** of the thing they are mad about, then a penalty may apply..."
It's not supposed to be trying to convince people you think its them, it's you trying to convince people it is them.
Just because Ben didn't even attempt to think of any reason why he would suddenly think Gee is evil on the night she died (She killed herself as Imp, one very simple and reasonable opinion that could've convinced people he wasn't harpied without Really pushing him hard on going into detail) doesn't mean that "there is no reasonable way to back it up" because there were many ways to, especially if he said he might be drunk etc and then he doesn't have to lie about his role like you said; he didn't even take a moment to think of a reason he just woke up each day and said hahaha I actually think its this person now ""why?" I just do, that's not convincing whatsoever and he knew he wasn't trying to convince them as he joked about it and that's the point of the harpy it forces players to either seed doubt or die and likely confirm their innocence in their death, Lewis's refusal to punish Ben though Bens entirely unconvincing madness just caused players to "confirm" the majority of players as good because of it and clearly the bad team recognised that no matter what was said Lewis wouldn't punish them so they jumped in on the harpy calling dogpile towards the end.
And on the entertainment side, their personalities are the entertainment, the game is too, they still joke around and can be themselves whilst actually adhering to their roles - From watching No Rolls Barred play the harpy is a very strong and super fun role as it stops players giving the information they want to give whilst giving them the choice to take themselves out and let the others know, but it doesn't work when most of the players don't even have a base understanding of the game which the yogscast are not exactly known for being good at games especially when half the players are new.
I gave Nilesy some flack for his role madness before, because, to me he was obvious, and in a way the showed he was mad. I strongly considered this while analysiing Ben's own actions.
I think Ben actually did not only more than what team evil expected of him(Tom chose him explicitly because he'd be loud, which he was), but did what Ben would do if he was evil or innocent but clueless.
Ben isn't great at defending arguments he doesn't believe in, or finding ways to twist things so that something can be interpreted different from how he understands a situation(he could've called Gee the Imp, but I think he just straight up didn't consider it). When he believes something, he is good at pushing it, but when he feels uncertain or knows he is incorrect, he pushes it but his arguments ring hollow.
That said, he went as far as to try to kill the people he was mad about each time(and targeting dead Gee, funny enough would've been possibly brilliant in a different script), starting votes for each and voting for each, other than Tom. This is a step above what he is called to do, and might seem odd, but he also argued other people, which is about the only way he could obscure his madness, when the other were more suspect.
The difference between him and Nilesy is... he barely played different while mad than he would while evil or clueless but obstinate. He fulfilled his obligations, plus a little extra.
"What are the odds you're an Investigator? 1 in 20. It's statistically more likely that you're a minion or a demon"
It could work, but I'm loving that Ben Work will either win it for Tom or doom him. It could be either.
Aw Dan's kill on Boba! Such a missed opportunity. I imagine it's quite stressful being the demon though lol.
Why? What other choice did he have? Any other kill would lead to the Imp getting executed during the day. Maybe offing himself there could work if it would make the town execute Ben the following day but Boba was the safer play.
@@Blackn3t pretty sure ravs outted himself as the grandson infront of dan, meaning a demon kill on ravs would kill another innocent as well (boba)
Yeah, but it gave us an HILARIOUS final round, so as always, Dan’s on the side of content!
@@Blackn3t because they would have gotten a double kill
@@guggebuggeThough the two dead grandson and grandma would still have their ghost votes, and be ticked off that the demon had been in that room with them.
I think that "It's not a bluff, i actually convinc-CONFIDED..." at 1:23:00 was a probably the clearest case of Freudean slip i ever heard. What an episode!
Tom is blessed. Ravs Boba and Gee shared the info with each other to immediately get Tom as the minion day 1. He somehow lives the whole game.
This was like watching a group of people playing red light green light except half of them are blind and deaf.
"Would you like to look at me tonight?" .........very creepy one from sophie there hahah
:)
So good. 100 minutes long and watched it all in one sitting and it flew by. Absolutely worth the membership to get these early and support this video series! 🎉
Tom is insane at this game. So many insane plays from him!
The moment the Ghost votes were used to lift the execution of RTGame, the game was over. Good did not have enough votes to put the demon on the block the next day. They should've not tied since they all believed TOM was evil. Meaning 2 evil votes minimum the next day.
39 mins in and I thought I was going crazy remembering that Gee was told it was between Tom & Pedguin, but went back and checked and yep she accidentally said Ravs 😅 that said I’ve got over and hour left of video to see how it shakes out 👀
LMAOOOO ok yeah they called it out at the end 😂 another excellent game ❤
I often think I have the exact same flavor of ADHD as Gee
I did not catch her mistake AT ALL lol
Same. It wasn't until the end when Lewis called out Gee on it that I remembered that Lewis DID say it was between Tom and Ped.
@@daddysempaichan a total “blink and you miss it” moment, or like… a brain blink in this case 😂 excited to see Gee in more!
I thought Tom picking Ped for Boba lining up with Gee's info was going to be a big deal, then Gee said Ravs and RT killed Ped.
The combination of Boba being forced to pretend Pedguin was bad and Gee knowing that either Pedguin/Tom was harpy, could have immediately outed Tom. Luckily Gee forgot her info and Boba didn't really accuse Ped.
Love these episodes and glad you’re bringing some more people into it! Also love that you’re changing up the roles, it always keeps it interesting. So many misplays in this one-makes it so entertaining to watch wondering what’ll happen! I wish you guys would do this more than every two weeks!!
Five roles that reveal good and bad guys and they still fumble it the classic Yogscast I've come to love.
Plus Gee accidentally instantly revealing one of the evil roles, with the evil teams plan being to make Tom into the demon.
TBH it’s something of a miracle that the evil team won
I love boba's hesitant "i disagree?" when ravs tries to kill himself and her edit: commented before learning that it wouldnt have killed her
she didn't know it wouldn't have killed her so it's still funny
I half expected Ben to go against the Harpy rules during that final day in an attempt to get himself and Tom killed but then remembered Tom becoming the Imp cancels it
30:46 wow for a drunk that was a very good lycanthrope impression
me refreshing the page every 2 seconds until it showed up
I got introduced to this game by RTGame, and im already so invested in the series and all the roles
The one Demon role I want to see the most is the Yaggababble, imagine the phrase "That's crazy"/"That is so insane" whenever someone dies at night, but i would like to hear what the player's own catchphrase is haha
The flexing by Tom of NOT voting in the final round is so good hahaha
55:10 "No other explanation" haha. Tom could have played Sophie like a puppet if he had gone along with it.
Im watching as evil get backed further and further into a corner by just hard evidence, and crying at the video length
First game ever where Ben actually knows what his role lol
Huge shoutout to the immense amount of formatting and scripting work that must have gone into making a coherent viewpoint for this. I've never been big on watching these kinds of mass deduction games, but this omniscient viewpoint, carefully pruned to the key discussions is just stellar.
What happens when you don't have Rythan in the lobby, that dude is like the most detective minded logic person in yogscast
Tom and RT played everyone else shockingly well.
This series is brilliant! And the longer the episode the better imho
This is SUCH a good game, I'm so glad they gave it another chance, a proper chance.
It does require a LOT of work to set up, and a LOT of people as well. But I think we've seen throughout all of this, that it is SOOOO worth it.
Thank you guys for thoroughly entertaining me.
This is the best series ever!!! I became a member JUST for this series. I hope I can watch many more eps.
Dan watching his minion go rogue and somehow still win must have been an experience for sure
Boba not voting for the player she was harpy mad about is arguably a reason for triggering the harpy deaths
I think harpy would be too strong if it forced the person to vote. She would have to defend the decision convincingly if someone asked her though.
It says may die so it’s all up to the storyteller. Death is information, so Lewis might’ve thought it would be more useful to the town if he killed Boba over it
given that Lewis had a cut in specifically explaining that Boba was pushing for Ped hard and it got cut in the edit, she probably felt it was fufilled enough to not get a likely innocent killed
@@atigersgrin There is a minion called "assassin" which can kill anyone, no matter what. That is the normal power level for a minion: 1 free kill. Harpy maybe killing 1 person if they aren't convincing enough is fine by comparison (remember, a player can break madness and take the penalty at any time)
Usually I flip-flop on who I want to win.
This time I was constantly changing who I wanted to lose.
I think RT played a really convincing town role, trying to work with the town to deduce who is evil and put the info together. He did really well in consistently convincing the townsfolk he was one of them, making them doubt their judgement when he was on the chopping block. Really fun game to watch!
Nah it was super obvious. All the credit goes to Tom
@@imadecoy. lol
I thought so early, but town turned on him really quick, so there may have been suspicion on him that was cut out.
I did not think that this series would keep getting better - especially after the previous episode, but oh my goodness!! This was amazing. It just keeps on getting better and better. Once again, congratulations to everyone involved.
Might have been long, but it was worth it. Wonderful stuff yet again. Loved the Harpy chaos, cannot wait for the next one
its amazing getting to look forward to this every fortnight! it sparks so much joy. thank you everyone involved!!
The night RT killed Boba, he could have killed Ravs instead and I'm pretty sure they would have won. Instead he spent another 3 days trolling literally everyone, including his minion, to the very last second.
They seemed pretty set to kill RT with four left and may not have tried to tie it if it was the last day.
If RT killed Ravs, that would put a lot of sus on him (Ravs did relay that info to him), and considering people were caught on with Tom being bad, would’ve been a game right then and there
Edit: Not braining rn, yeah think you’re right?Town would vote out rt and tom would kill last town. But ghost votes would be in effect on the night of boba kill, don’t know how that plays out.
@gitfanatic Imp only jumps to minion if they kill themselves in the night. If town executed RT, the game would have ended and evil would have lost
@@amaryllis0 oh k thanks for clear up.
Still wondering why ghosties did what they did?At least RT kinda makes sense in hindsight (Killing Ravs doesn’t autowin for evil and killing himself wouldn’t change the outcome i think?)
@@gitfanaticBut ravs told basically everyone at the same time that he was the grandson, why would it put sus on Rt specifically when everyone was in the room including Ben. Made for a great video but this round was covered in terrible plays from both sides, Rt not killing ravs and then the town drawing the vote on Rt despite knowing that meant a guaranteed loss the next day.
Please keep this series going its quickly became a favorite!!
I don't think Tom was playing it expertly at all. The man was cackling evil laughter for like HALF THE GAME! HOW DID THEY NOT GET HIM!?!!
I think what really threw this round for such a gigantic loop is that everyone was some kind of significant info role, Grandmother and Noble Grandson, a Seamstress, a Fortune Teller, AN INVESTIGATOR, and Drunk Werewolf ... ALL That combined WITH THE HARPY omg especially the harpy turned this round into a nightmare tornado of whos who...
This was crazy
I love how every good doubt was followed by incredible plays by evil, wasting that many ghost votes to tie is crazy. (Of course a few good players were new so experience may of prevented this but it's amazing regardless)
Another banger, I can't believe the game ended the way it did! These are definitely a highlight of my day
Gee being gee lol XD
Great long game! Everyone really get into the groove of it, I love it!
I love how instantly Gee messed up her info day one xD. And then Ravs goes and tells the person he was told could be the minion his role instead of gee and ben
Gee immediately forgetting her info changed literally everything about the game. It was so stacked against Tom and RT as soon as that “info” was shared that I have no idea how they managed to pull of a win. Fantastic game by those two
She has ping on the minion and ravs has ping on demon... i left the video on rt's stand , when i came back demons won.... i could not fking believe it
Tom definitely won this for the baddies. His double bluffing was masterful. Although I think it helped he already is known to have a strong relationship with Ben, thus making a Sharky and Palp Demon Team all the more believable.
I feel like boba isn’t doing the Harpy affliction right. At the very least I feel like boba should have voted for Ben when Tom put him up for affliction.
It would’ve been nice to see the cut footage, because I was convinced Boba just flat out forgot and was going to get herself killed because she said so little about it
Gee giving actual important game information while doing cossack dance 😂 I cannottttttttt
Geestar fucking up her info at the beginning of this game made this whole thing so wild since Ravs is the MOST confirmed goodest boi
I love this series so much, please keep it coming!
This continues to justify my membership payment.
This is the best show on RUclips. Thank you for keep doing these