If I understand you correctly you have one jumper from R to W. That would be equivalent to a single stage thermostat closing between R and W(1). You then connect a separate jumper from R to W2 which forces it into Stage II or high fire. You say if you hook them both up in advance it will have a delay based on the settings in the motherboard, but that's not the way my furnace works. When R to W1 is closed and then W1 is bridged to W2 on my furnace it goes directly to Stage II high fire once the burners start after the thermostat closes. It could be there is a difference in the behavior of various motherboards. I believe you are going to see in the next few years "smart furnaces" with much more nuanced controls and most likely there will be a touch screen display on the furnace to control various settings of run time modes. As it is now, the dip switches are rather limited in their capability. If you compare these furnaces to modern security alarm systems or even a high end washing machine, the furnaces are really primitive by comparison.
This video is meant as a help to initiate high fire when testing. Clearly, not all furnaces will not have this feature. As for the future, I don't see a lot of changes in furnace design. Mostly, changes will involve how heat is delivered to the conditioned space. GFM
@@grayfurnaceman With all due respect, and believe me I do respect you very much, heat delivery can be the most economical by using the least energy required for the job. That's why good insulation, and a well sealed home are so important. The problem as I see it related to furnaces is by in large the control system. With these high efficiency furnaces, there is probably little they can do to improve the design of the burners, heat exchangers, or even the duct systems. What can be improved vastly is a more nuanced control system where settings can be based on actual performance data related to actual real time energy consumption as related to run times, and blower speeds, etc. Blink codes are ridiculous as compared to a an English language display screen that reports back graphical and numerical run time information. I'll put money on the fact that the better furnaces of the future will include touch screen control over their functions and the adjustments will be based on real time information and feed back of the actual performance based on energy consumption and cost.
Your envisioned system may be better at placing the heat where and when it is needed. However, the system should be able to operate without input from the customer. Most people have no time or inclination to actively interact with their system. GFM
@@grayfurnaceman I agree that many people have trouble just adjusting their thermostat, particularly if it's digital and has hourly set-back adjustment capability. Some digital thermostats are way too complex, even for me to understand at a glance. If people have misplaced their instruction manual you can be up the creek without a paddle.
@@grayfurnaceman Hello. I just took apart the back of the blower motor and can't figure out how three rings go back in and I really need this because I will have no heat. If I post a video, do you think you can tell me? Any help would be aprectiated. Thanks.
Hello. We just purchased a 2 stage furnace. We didn’t know much about it. We just trusted the technician. Come to find out our house isn’t wired for a 2 stage furnace. (They did say they would wire it for no charge.) But our house was built in the early 50’s, so it’s really drafty. Another technician suggested to change the furnace so it will run in the 2nd stage only because the 1st stage wasn’t warming the house fast enough. So, my question is...will it hurt or damage the furnace (Trane XV80) sooner because it’s a 2 stage furnace, but we have it set to run high fire only? Any other information will be greatly appreciated also. Thank you. 😊
Good video. so, in essence could u set the thermostat stat to heat , set temp 2 degrees above set point , then when first stage fires , set thermostat 10 degrees higher. would that work ? no jumpers required ?
I think it might depend on the thermostat, but you scheme doesn't make much sense to me . Setting the thermostat 10+ just means it would run until the 10+ temperature is reached. Generally speaking that's not something you would want.
for testing in timely fashion, that doesn't work so well, just manual jumper it, unless you're checking the thermostat itself, then set it up high and take a nap waiting ;)
Great video as always. I saw that when you jumped it to Hi-fire, that the status light on the left side of the board went from single flash, to double flash when the burners went Hi.. It is a good indicator to show you the board went Hi.. Cc
It's only trane i believe that will initiate a delay if w1 and w2 are energized at the start of the cycle. Most will just bring the second stage on right away and the delay is used by hooking up just W1 and setting the jumper or dip switch properly. Really, the delay is only for when a single stage stat is used. But single stage stats do not belong on 2-stage furnaces, 2nd should be brought on only as required and it should cycle back to 1st, not overshoot and shut off. The entire point of 2-stage is to get long cycles, it's not worth the added expense (both in terms of initial cost and added repair costs) if it just times out after a short time and gets locked on high fire.
I agree with you completely, and have ordered a second commercial grade thermostat that will have its bulb sensor out of doors in a shady place on the north side of the house, and will bridge W2 to W1 only during very cold weather. The problem I'm addressing presently in my mind is what should the set point be? I'm thinking around 15° might be good. Any thoughts you have on the matter would be greatly appreciated. One factor is that once that set point is reached it will operate in Stage II full time until the outdoor temperature rises.
@@JoeLinux2000 It's better to just use a indoor two stage thermostat and the second stage cycles on and off as needed to maintain. The good stats monitor rate of change and will bring second stage on before you even notice the temperature drop. With the outdoor stat, you're guessing at what temp first stage can't keep up you lose the ability to drop from high to low.
@@Jon-hx7pe Good points, but I'm committed to testing the outdoor sensor at the moment. Losing the ability to drop back from high to low until the outdoor temperature rises is a reason to go low with the setting of the outdoor sensing thermostat. I might go as low as 10° which doesn't occur very often. In the mean time the single stage thermostat inside the house can still be based on run time as it is now. So it would kick up to Stage II if the furnace can not keep up before the set low point on the out door thermostat, which I could even set to 7 or 5°. It is all mostly dependent on the actual weather. I don't see getting an exotic two stage thermostat for inside the house at the moment partially because I only have two wires in the cable, and I think pulling a new wire would be very tricky given it's location in the walls. In fact it might actually be impossible. The outdoor wire can simply pass through the garage, and I already have it in place.
Affordable two stage thermostats are easy to come by but the wiring is an issue. There are wireless stats for when pulling a new wire isn't practical and u would gain other things like fan control from the stat as well as ability to control a/c down the road. Only issue is it's expensive. The lack of ability to switch between low and high with an outdoor stat does reduce the benefit - it's nice to have the furnace not shut off between the point at which heat loss exceeds output on low but high provides too much heat. But anyhow, if you want, just disable the second stage for now and see how cold it can get outside before having to use it. You may be surprised. Most furnaces are oversized, it may be able to heat down to 0F or below on low fire.
If the furnace kicks on just fine without a jumper, can I then just use one jumper to jump R to W2? I wouldn't need 2 jumpers unless it won't kick on at all, right? Newer technician here.
I noticed that you placed the black jumper wire directly onto the terminals @ both R and W - However the green jumper wire is not being jumped from the R terminal to W2 because the top of the green wire appears to be placed somewhere else in the middle of the circuit board - Is there another R location on the board besides the standard R terminal that's found on the board next to the other letters W, Y, G, B etc....etc... - simple question how is the green wire in this video connected - one side is obviously being connected at the board @ the W2 terminal but where is the other end of the wire connected? -- Thanks again for all of your great videos!!!
when are they going to make a Bluetooth enabled motherboard ? App for your phone ? adjust settings via bluetooth ? smartmotherboard interfaced with google or alexa ? dip switches are so 1980. these things havent changed since 1980. diagnostics via app ? i'm waiting carrier ?
Absolutely. These furnaces are so behind from my perspective. I don't care so much about Bluetooth, but certainly the furnaces need much better data retention and delivery along with the ability to make remote adjustments to the operating parameters without having to fool with the stupid door safety switch which is an absolute annoyance.
I have a question you’ve helped me a lot this winter fixing two furnaces so hopefully you can help me with a new one. We had a company put a Lennox 2 stage el296uhv series furnace and merit 13acx single stage AC in my mother’s home. Despite telling them I’m ordering a two stage thermostat to replace the current single stage they still wired in the single stage thermostat. I’m now preparing to wire for a two stage thermostat my question is this - will it be sufficient to run ONLY the second stage heat wire (W2 I believe?) then set the ECM dip switch back to controlled setting from interval setting or will there be any additional wiring necessary to run the single stage AC off the ecobee3 lite thermostat I plan to install. Thanks For all your help so far! I guess my concern is if there is anything they may have wired to make it work needs to be undone? Will a two stage thermostat operate a single stage AC in absents of a Y2 wire even though I’m wiring in a W2 for two stage heating or will it automatically differentiate between the two? If you have a contact email I can email you working at furnace and thermostat if that helps.
Thank for the video series on the furnace, I changed the suction tube and tried to prime, but not able to get it turn on. the red light flash/ lockdown, but cant get it to reset, kept pressing, but nothing happened. light continue to flashes. any idea on how to reset this to bleed the line. ? Thanks in advance.
@@grayfurnaceman No, just one W and one Y on this new Goodman top of the line furnace. lol $2,000. The computer chip determines the time to switch to stage 2. This is so annoying coming home to a cold house running on low for 10-20 minutes. Wondering how to bypass this and control from my Ecobee instead
Great video as usual. This may be a stupid question , but on a 2 stage furnace, when does the second stage come on? Except for when the thermostat and inside your home has a high temperature difference, your second stage will run. I understand that. But once your home reaches temperature and your furnace starts and stops to maintain temperature, does the second stage ever come on? Please explain. Thanks
If the thermostat is 2 stage, and the temperature continues to drop during a cycle, the second stage will come on. If the thermostat is single stage, the delay is active and it assumes if the 1st stage has not satisfied the thermostat, more heat is needed. GFM
@@grayfurnaceman That's the way mine is presently and I have set the motherboard dips to hold in Stage I for 20 minutes. The normal fire on run time is between 9 and 13 minutes in Stage I depending on the outdoor temperature. It rarely goes into Stage II unless I bump up the temperature manually. Even then the Stage II run is rather short, maybe no more than 2 minutes. But with my outdoor second thermostat scheme I can force it to hold in Stage I unless the outside temperature is extremely cold. I believe that's what I want. However I would like to have better data on the exact run times related to the precise outdoor temperature.
I wanted to check gas pressure on high fire on a Lennox today and jumping w1 to w2 or directly R to w2 it wouldn't go into high fire. Are some furnaces obey only on the time delay the board has?
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
If I understand you correctly you have one jumper from R to W. That would be equivalent to a single stage thermostat closing between R and W(1). You then connect a separate jumper from R to W2 which forces it into Stage II or high fire. You say if you hook them both up in advance it will have a delay based on the settings in the motherboard, but that's not the way my furnace works. When R to W1 is closed and then W1 is bridged to W2 on my furnace it goes directly to Stage II high fire once the burners start after the thermostat closes. It could be there is a difference in the behavior of various motherboards. I believe you are going to see in the next few years "smart furnaces" with much more nuanced controls and most likely there will be a touch screen display on the furnace to control various settings of run time modes. As it is now, the dip switches are rather limited in their capability. If you compare these furnaces to modern security alarm systems or even a high end washing machine, the furnaces are really primitive by comparison.
This video is meant as a help to initiate high fire when testing. Clearly, not all furnaces will not have this feature.
As for the future, I don't see a lot of changes in furnace design. Mostly, changes will involve how heat is delivered to the conditioned space.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman With all due respect, and believe me I do respect you very much, heat delivery can be the most economical by using the least energy required for the job. That's why good insulation, and a well sealed home are so important. The problem as I see it related to furnaces is by in large the control system. With these high efficiency furnaces, there is probably little they can do to improve the design of the burners, heat exchangers, or even the duct systems. What can be improved vastly is a more nuanced control system where settings can be based on actual performance data related to actual real time energy consumption as related to run times, and blower speeds, etc. Blink codes are ridiculous as compared to a an English language display screen that reports back graphical and numerical run time information. I'll put money on the fact that the better furnaces of the future will include touch screen control over their functions and the adjustments will be based on real time information and feed back of the actual performance based on energy consumption and cost.
Your envisioned system may be better at placing the heat where and when it is needed. However, the system should be able to operate without input from the customer. Most people have no time or inclination to actively interact with their system.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman I agree that many people have trouble just adjusting their thermostat, particularly if it's digital and has hourly set-back adjustment capability. Some digital thermostats are way too complex, even for me to understand at a glance. If people have misplaced their instruction manual you can be up the creek without a paddle.
@@grayfurnaceman Hello. I just took apart the back of the blower motor and can't figure out how three rings go back in and I really need this because I will have no heat. If I post a video, do you think you can tell me? Any help would be aprectiated. Thanks.
Hello. We just purchased a 2 stage furnace. We didn’t know much about it. We just trusted the technician. Come to find out our house isn’t wired for a 2 stage furnace. (They did say they would wire it for no charge.)
But our house was built in the early 50’s, so it’s really drafty. Another technician suggested to change the furnace so it will run in the 2nd stage only because the 1st stage wasn’t warming the house fast enough.
So, my question is...will it hurt or damage the furnace (Trane XV80) sooner because it’s a 2 stage furnace, but we have it set to run high fire only? Any other information will be greatly appreciated also.
Thank you. 😊
Good video. so, in essence could u set the thermostat stat to heat , set temp 2 degrees above set point , then when first stage fires , set thermostat 10 degrees higher. would that work ? no jumpers required ?
I think it might depend on the thermostat, but you scheme doesn't make much sense to me . Setting the thermostat 10+ just means it would run until the 10+ temperature is reached. Generally speaking that's not something you would want.
In theory yes. In practice it just does not work.
GFM
for testing in timely fashion, that doesn't work so well, just manual jumper it, unless you're checking the thermostat itself, then set it up high and take a nap waiting ;)
Great video as always. I saw that when you jumped it to Hi-fire, that the status light on the left side of the board went from single flash, to double flash when the burners went Hi.. It is a good indicator to show you the board went Hi..
Cc
Good info
GFM
It's only trane i believe that will initiate a delay if w1 and w2 are energized at the start of the cycle. Most will just bring the second stage on right away and the delay is used by hooking up just W1 and setting the jumper or dip switch properly.
Really, the delay is only for when a single stage stat is used. But single stage stats do not belong on 2-stage furnaces, 2nd should be brought on only as required and it should cycle back to 1st, not overshoot and shut off. The entire point of 2-stage is to get long cycles, it's not worth the added expense (both in terms of initial cost and added repair costs) if it just times out after a short time and gets locked on high fire.
Good info. good comment. thanks for posting.
I agree with you completely, and have ordered a second commercial grade thermostat that will have its bulb sensor out of doors in a shady place on the north side of the house, and will bridge W2 to W1 only during very cold weather. The problem I'm addressing presently in my mind is what should the set point be? I'm thinking around 15° might be good. Any thoughts you have on the matter would be greatly appreciated. One factor is that once that set point is reached it will operate in Stage II full time until the outdoor temperature rises.
@@JoeLinux2000 It's better to just use a indoor two stage thermostat and the second stage cycles on and off as needed to maintain. The good stats monitor rate of change and will bring second stage on before you even notice the temperature drop. With the outdoor stat, you're guessing at what temp first stage can't keep up you lose the ability to drop from high to low.
@@Jon-hx7pe Good points, but I'm committed to testing the outdoor sensor at the moment. Losing the ability to drop back from high to low until the outdoor temperature rises is a reason to go low with the setting of the outdoor sensing thermostat. I might go as low as 10° which doesn't occur very often. In the mean time the single stage thermostat inside the house can still be based on run time as it is now. So it would kick up to Stage II if the furnace can not keep up before the set low point on the out door thermostat, which I could even set to 7 or 5°. It is all mostly dependent on the actual weather. I don't see getting an exotic two stage thermostat for inside the house at the moment partially because I only have two wires in the cable, and I think pulling a new wire would be very tricky given it's location in the walls. In fact it might actually be impossible. The outdoor wire can simply pass through the garage, and I already have it in place.
Affordable two stage thermostats are easy to come by but the wiring is an issue. There are wireless stats for when pulling a new wire isn't practical and u would gain other things like fan control from the stat as well as ability to control a/c down the road. Only issue is it's expensive.
The lack of ability to switch between low and high with an outdoor stat does reduce the benefit - it's nice to have the furnace not shut off between the point at which heat loss exceeds output on low but high provides too much heat.
But anyhow, if you want, just disable the second stage for now and see how cold it can get outside before having to use it. You may be surprised. Most furnaces are oversized, it may be able to heat down to 0F or below on low fire.
If the furnace kicks on just fine without a jumper, can I then just use one jumper to jump R to W2? I wouldn't need 2 jumpers unless it won't kick on at all, right? Newer technician here.
I saw you put only one side of alligator jump to w2 for second stage where did you put the other side ?
I noticed that you placed the black jumper wire directly onto the terminals @ both R and W - However the green jumper wire is not being jumped from the R terminal to W2 because the top of the green wire appears to be placed somewhere else in the middle of the circuit board - Is there another R location on the board besides the standard R terminal that's found on the board next to the other letters W, Y, G, B etc....etc... - simple question how is the green wire in this video connected - one side is obviously being connected at the board @ the W2 terminal but where is the other end of the wire connected? -- Thanks again for all of your great videos!!!
The green jumper is connected ro R. It just hard to see in the video Its the dark part above the R terminal.
GFM
The end sleeve of green jumper blends into thr color of the control board that's why the green jumper connected to R is hard to see.
For those who are slightly color blind like myself, this was super confusing. lol
when are they going to make a Bluetooth enabled motherboard ? App for your phone ? adjust settings via bluetooth ? smartmotherboard interfaced with google or alexa ? dip switches are so 1980. these things havent changed since 1980. diagnostics via app ? i'm waiting carrier ?
Absolutely. These furnaces are so behind from my perspective. I don't care so much about Bluetooth, but certainly the furnaces need much better data retention and delivery along with the ability to make remote adjustments to the operating parameters without having to fool with the stupid door safety switch which is an absolute annoyance.
I have a question you’ve helped me a lot this winter fixing two furnaces so hopefully you can help me with a new one. We had a company put a Lennox 2 stage el296uhv series furnace and merit 13acx single stage AC in my mother’s home. Despite telling them I’m ordering a two stage thermostat to replace the current single stage they still wired in the single stage thermostat. I’m now preparing to wire for a two stage thermostat my question is this - will it be sufficient to run ONLY the second stage heat wire (W2 I believe?) then set the ECM dip switch back to controlled setting from interval setting or will there be any additional wiring necessary to run the single stage AC off the ecobee3 lite thermostat I plan to install. Thanks For all your help so far! I guess my concern is if there is anything they may have wired to make it work needs to be undone? Will a two stage thermostat operate a single stage AC in absents of a Y2 wire even though I’m wiring in a W2 for two stage heating or will it automatically differentiate between the two? If you have a contact email I can email you working at furnace and thermostat if that helps.
Where is the other side of green wire jumper hook on to?
this was great gray fox, great vdeo
Thank for the video series on the furnace, I changed the suction tube and tried to prime, but not able to get it turn on. the red light flash/ lockdown, but cant get it to reset, kept pressing, but nothing happened. light continue to flashes. any idea on how to reset this to bleed the line. ? Thanks in advance.
Try this one: ruclips.net/video/SHTwhOtvQWE/видео.html
with some of them, it becomes initiating "rage level 2" whilst waiting ;)
That's funny and probably very accurate. I have chronic DSSR - door safety switch rage.
Where does the green jumper attach to at the top? It's out of frame. I can't understand how you jump to w2 without being on ted thanks.
The green jumper goes from R to W2.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman thanks for the response . My furnace doesn't have any terminal r
.
For w2. I can send a pic tomorrow if that would help.
@@hillisrutter6291 Does your furnace have a terminal boarder are there just wires?
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman mine has terminal board with the usual--Y,G,R,B,W. No W2. Thanks.
New Goodman 2 Stage; one W. How do i control with Ecobee?
Does it not have a W2 on the furnace control board?
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman No, just one W and one Y on this new Goodman top of the line furnace. lol $2,000. The computer chip determines the time to switch to stage 2. This is so annoying coming home to a cold house running on low for 10-20 minutes. Wondering how to bypass this and control from my Ecobee instead
That is a great tip. Thanks for the video's.
where are you located., I am in KY?
I am in the Northwest.
GFM
Great video as usual. This may be a stupid question , but on a 2 stage furnace, when does the second stage come on? Except for when the thermostat and inside your home has a high temperature difference, your second stage will run. I understand that. But once your home reaches temperature and your furnace starts and stops to maintain temperature, does the second stage ever come on? Please explain. Thanks
If the thermostat is 2 stage, and the temperature continues to drop during a cycle, the second stage will come on. If the thermostat is single stage, the delay is active and it assumes if the 1st stage has not satisfied the thermostat, more heat is needed.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman That's the way mine is presently and I have set the motherboard dips to hold in Stage I for 20 minutes. The normal fire on run time is between 9 and 13 minutes in Stage I depending on the outdoor temperature. It rarely goes into Stage II unless I bump up the temperature manually. Even then the Stage II run is rather short, maybe no more than 2 minutes. But with my outdoor second thermostat scheme I can force it to hold in Stage I unless the outside temperature is extremely cold. I believe that's what I want. However I would like to have better data on the exact run times related to the precise outdoor temperature.
Jason
Great video. Thanks for sharing
Welcome
GFM
Thank you man
great stuff, thank you ...
red tail hawk
Omg change that filter! Lol
Thank you, l maintenance.
Tried this on 80% American standard furnace with no luck …
Lmao same
I wanted to check gas pressure on high fire on a Lennox today and jumping w1 to w2 or directly R to w2 it wouldn't go into high fire. Are some furnaces obey only on the time delay the board has?
If you are unable to get it to go to hi fire, jump W1 to W2 and wait about 10 minutes. It should go to hi fire.
GFM