Do you need Lockers to Offroad? || Part 1 of 2
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
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Today we're diving into lockers, and if you really need them to offroad. This is part 1 of a 2 part series so stay tuned for part 2! In this video, Josh covers what lockers are, how they operate, and what the different types of lockers are. Part 2 will be all about what situations you would want to use lockers and how they may not always help. Leave your questions in the comments or any tips that you guys have for using your lockers.
Part 2 - • When to Use Your Locke...
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You got that backwards, the outside tire spins faster.
I was scratching my head on that one thank you. Great video!!!!
Yes swing and a miss on that one! 🤣
Hey! 2 out of 3 aint bad!
Yep. The inside skips to catch up with the outside. Hence the chirpping
The one with least traction skids and chirps. Usually the unloaded inside tire, but can be the outside on if on a slippery surface like ice. Sometimes the inside, sometimes the outside, depends on what traction aiding device is in use, 2wd vs 4wd, raod/trail surface qualities, etc, but yes, typically the outside tire turns faster. Especially on my open F150's passenger rear. Oh, and the rotation of the driveshaft adds torque unevenly to the axle. Rotating clockwise into the rear dif, it unloads the passenger side and loads the driver's side, hence the one-wheel spin is usually the right rear.
I had 2 Rubicon's over the years & never used the Lockers. Now I'm happy with my lifted Sports/Sahara's without lockers and A/T tires...
Been running no lockers since day 1, completed rated 9 trails in Sand Hollow for trail hero. Good driver=no need for lockers. IMO. They do help though 😁
The BLD system on the new Jeeps is pretty badass honestly. In the JK you had to give it some throttle to get it to engage. The new JL and JT the computer just knows when and where to apply power and it works like a champ.
There are absolutely trails and obstacles that can't be done without lockers or winching. When one side of your rig is on rock and the other side is in deep sand, and you have to pivot around a boulder using your rock sliders, you are going nowhere without lockers.
Lockers are great. However, you can go pretty far without them. Not having lockers isn't a reason to stay home!
I use Torsen limited-slip differentials in my F150 both front and rear and they work great. I use them for both off-road and On-Road with Snow, Mud, Sand, and Limited Rock Crawling. They work great for what i need if you want an Automatic function in your Diff. As they are a Geared-Type Limited Slip.
I agree. I've been running a front Torsen for over 3 years in my F-150. The best mechanical locking differential I've ever used. Smooth, quiet, fast, solid, simple, and easy. No buttons, no thought. Just traction.
I have a JT Max Tow so it's basically a Rubicon without lockers and the E-Disconnect. I've been to North Georgia, Tn, and this past summer Colorado and Utah. I'm not saying that lockers aren't needed because there are situations where Lockers make it easier to overcome tough spots, BUT I've never found myself in situations where I felt I needed lockers. Each generation of Jeep the computers in these Jeeps get more and more responsive when it comes to the BLD system. I've had people ask me if I had my lockers on and when I tell them I don't have lockers they have this flustered look on their face while telling me it looks like I have lockers. That's just the computer doing it's thing. Another thing is choosing the right line and driver skill. Personally I think lockers make people lazy drivers. I have friends that engage lockers as soon as they come to an obstacle instead of trying it without them. Another friend, who went with me to Utah, just recently put lockers on his Jeep in preparation for our trip and was disappointed when we got out there because he used them once and that was just to play with them. Again, I'm not saying lockers aren't useful of course they are, but the engineering is getting better and better each generation to where with the right suspension and skills lockers fall further and further down the priority list at least for me.
I bought a JK Sport when they first came out, and my buddies who had fully locked TJ's said the same thing...... "Did you put lockers in that thing already?". We're in the East so we don't do any serious rock crawling anyway. Most of the time when you get stuck here you're high centered, so even the locked jeeps are stuck. Good tires and a good recovery strap are worth more than lockers here.
TCS is no replacement for lockers. It cuts power to the wheels. Even LSDs aren't really as good when lockers are called for.
Lunchbox lockers can be under $450 USD per unit.
A winch is still a better bet though.
I had front and rear Detroit True-tracs installed on my JKU with 4.88s. The great thing about the torsen-style differentials is that they have no buttons or cables. They do give a great option for a KISS approach, provide unparalleled turning radius, instant response to throttle input, and are super quiet. They do not impose any negative tread wear. The benefit of working in 4WD high all the time. I still have been able to do some spectacular driving with them through varied terrain. After Having a Rubi prior to them, the front and rear lockers are great, but require either user input, or 4WD Low or both. The downfall of the Rubi in the east is the 4-1 low range doesn't quite allow clearing mud as well as a more modest transfer case. I would think my setup gives some ups to consider compared to lockers on a daily driver used in all seasons.
Any weird road manners in rwd? Specifically the front wanting to bind in turns like parking lots full lock or fast sweepers on the road? I'm stuck between torsen rear and selectable front or two torsens.
@@shadow105720 Zero. Can't feel it at all until you get into something slippery. Eliminates the one-wheel peel.
I use my lockers when I backup over a curb by mistake in the mall parking lot
The TJ/LJ Rubicons were air driven locker... So there is your factory vehicle equipped with an air locker... Each axle had this weird little mini pump purposed for the locker only. Been down that road trying to find a matching set of D44's for an axle swap on my XJ... They were super low volume by comparison with the JK Rubicon. Most people who don't live in a rocky place like we have here out west will probably be fine with sway bar disconnects and a flexible suspension. I've honestly gotten away with a lot without lockers; but its super sketchy sometimes. Pick a good line and don't showboat. If it's not going, back up and try a better line. If it won't back up: dig, get rocks, whatever. Don't floor it, that's were stuff gets broken for no good reason.
There's also the cable locker. Selectable and completely mechanical: no air, no electronics
I was going to say the same. I am looking at purchasing selectable lockers and would like Ox cable lockers.
They do tend to stretch and need adjusted. I bought the ox locker but with air shift option. mostly because with OX if the air fails, there is a gadget called a drive away lock which is basically a bolt you can install to permalock it. That way if your compressor goes poo poo you can still lock the diff.
@@FlawedOffroad The newer version of the OX lockers do not require cable adjustment. It's set it and forget it! We sell OX as well as our own Lockers we manufacture!
From personal experience with one 2wd Toyota pickup I installed a Lock-Right in, two TRD Offroad Tacoma's and one FJ Cruiser, all with manual transmissions, I'd rather have a locking differential and not need it, than need it and not have it ! Ps. The 1993 2wd with the auto-locker stock suspension and 195/205 14 snow tires and 300lb in the bed, impressed a lot of people with what it could do in the snow, mud and in the woods more than any of my 4wd's. Of course I drove it like I stole it which I haven't really done much with the more expensive 4wd's.
Selectable lockers keep you from having to abuse the hell out of your rig to get over something.
TJ/LJ Rubicon’s came with factory air lockers.
I have 150k miles on my 07 Wrangler jku with 2.5 lift and 315 75 16 ko2 no locker and have done just about every notable trail in the Western u.s.
1:42 no, the inside tire spins slower than the outside tire. It’s easy to prove. Lock the inside tire and push the axle forward. It will rotate around the locked tire as a pivot point.
Nailed it Firestarter. Flip it and reverse it!
This. Outside tire has to cover more ground (larger radius) at the same time as the inside tire. That's why it must move faster. I was wondering when someone would point this out.
I wheeled CJs and YJs for years without lockers. 2007 and newer Wranglers have 4-wheel TCS (BrakeLok). Lockers are secondary to having a winch, IMO.
I like this video because it clearly explains why axles are not locked by default. Surprisingly hard to find a video like this that actually covers it!
Appreciate that! We try and make things easy for all levels of off-roaders!
Always good to have lockers for extreme obstacles so when you attempt the obstacle it will help you get through normally on first or second attempt rather than trying to plow through it and break something. Sometimes on extreme technical obstacles with a turn to it I sometimes just engage the rear allowing me to steer through. If it’s straight I’ll go full lock. Ha
Yes always better to have them than not if you like to go on trails
No, a locker isn't "always better" than other choices "if you like to go on trails."
When Powertrax came out with a Lock-Rite for the Samurai rear end, I had to have one. It didn't matter that I was already getting everywhere I wanted to go in the thing. I got one and HATED IT. And yeah, I'm shouting that.
I do most of my "Jeep trail" running during the upland game bird hunting seasons, from October through February. There's often snow on the trails during this time of the year. And my favorite hunting spots are all accessed by trails with numerous off-camber sections. One of them has a section where it's a shelf-road affair with a 7 to 12 degree downhill slope of the trail surface where it side-hills the north face of a mountain. Put icy snowpack on that, and being fully locked in the rear can be a suck-fest of fighting against a butt-end that wants to slide itself downhill and into the abyss.
If you're running trails on BLM or Forest Service land in 2021, you have fewer trails to run than I did back in '74 when I first started driving flat fender Jeeps and first-generation Broncos on them. You're not going anywhere on BLM or Forest Service land that someone before you hasn't already been to in an open-diff flat fender, CJ-5, or FJ-40, so even when a locker is better, it's still generally not necessary for the majority of open legal routes on public land.
@@jerroldshelton9367 the power trax is a mechanical locker not good for the daily life
@@danonm300c Daily life isn't where it sucked the most. It sucked the most on off camber sections of snowy trail.
Thank you for this video ... Finally GM is getting around to offering locking front and rear diffs .. wish I had a locking differential instead of limited slip , if you watch how a limited slip differential works you will see why a locking one is so superior .. limited slip allows the unloaded wheel to spin up to quite a good speed before locking the wheels together, and it does so abruptly , usually breaking loose the other wheel that may have had only marginally better traction to begin with (exactly not the way you want to apply power, kinda like side stepping the clutch LOL) cant wait for part 2
Great topic. I've found that so far I dont need a locker. Toyota a-trac has worked great which is good because I saved money getting an sr5 4runner instead of the higher trims that have lockers. I figured I can always add one if I really wanted too.
Thanks so much Gilbert!
I agree, and did the same. 2021 SR5 with an Icon lift/wheels/tires....now I want and older Jeep and have it built for off-road. Can't wait to have both
Is adding a locker after purchase practical? I'm looking at an F150 without a locker but I want to get into off roading. Not sure if should buy it or wait for one with a locker....thoughts?
@@vision2155 I had four 4wd pickups and a K5 Blazer over the years, and I needed to turn around when things got dicey-- or to be extracted- with each of the vehicles, especially with the pickups. Later, i bought a TJ Wrangler with a factory lunchbox locker which was a considerable improvement, then a TJ Rubicon which was a further step ahead. If i were doing it over, I would sacrifice a lot to have front and rear diff locks, and would probably not go offroad to any great extent at all if I didnt have at least a rear locker. The problem that I encountered most was getting the vehicle with the weight on diagonal corners, in which case the opposite corner wheels just sat there and turned. The terrain does not need to be particularly challenging for this to happen, in my experience.
I'm running Method Race wheels with their patented bead grip technology. Check 'em out, no maintenence, easy mount, and unless you are runnin the Rubicon you'll never need lockers again.
You can do 95% of stuff any vehicle with lockers can do. Its that last 5% that gets iffy.
Took a pile of jeepers, for instance, on an old, corroded skidder trail run last year that had steep, really uneven hills, rock crawling, and mud, all mixed together. But the land was such that the wet areas came up in various spots surrounded by dry, crusty land. On the trail itself these spots would be at close random intervals along the track on the right and left. The unlocked vehicles got stuck every 50 feet because wheels would unload unevenly, and the terrain was so rough that it was tough to get speed to bump through.
I crawled the whole thing front to back, and was the main recovery vehicle. A 5km trail took 4hrs to run because of the nature of the trail. That doesnt happen often though. Just about anything I can do in my lifted rubi, any other competent 4 wheeler can do in theirs, often better. Its more skill than what you drive. But sometimes the trail dictates the need for cheat buttons. One of our most experienced drivers, in a lifted Sahara dropped unevenly in to a muddy spot and diffed on to a stump just under the dirt with only very light vehicles behind her. That recovery took 2hrs and 3 jeeps as anchors cause it was all muddy black soil dirt.
Still, get out there! Or, if you must do a lock, a rear one or good limited slip will do just about everything else.
Thanks for sharing that!
I always had two favorite lockers: 1. Beer lockers, and 2. Lincoln lockers (weld up the open diff).
While my '20 Dodge Durango has full time 4wd. It doesn't have what most my other current use vehicles have. LSD differentials are what most vehicles should have. I prefer the gear type over the clutch type. Last week I bought a '23 Jeep Wrangler Sport S Lattitude. The idea was to have a nice 4wd to tow behind our our 4wd Cummins powered Ram picup truck with a 4Wheel popup camper. We could set up camp, and explore the area, or run errands. And not have to pack things up everytime we wanted to go somewhere.
The Jeep lacks LSDs or Lockers. But the 3.45 ratio is not acceptable. So I will put TruTracs front and rear with the gear change. If I find the ground clearance unaccetable for our adventures. A Weld74 portal axle setup looks like a better option than many other suspension mods that I have seen. And we may get a more cost effective capable vehicle. While we did get a small rebate. The $50k sticker price, allows for quite a few upgrades, before we reach the price of most of the Wranglers that were on the lot.
Great topic.....both are great, having/not having simply because trails are our escape from the chaos of our work week. I think we all can agree with that
I sold my Wrangler Sport over the summer. I have been shopping around for a New Jeep. Of course I am leaning toward a Rubicon. They come at a Heavy Price Tag. Now I see the 2022 Willy's comes with a Recon Package. This puts you in with 35 inch tires and a 1.5 lift from the factory. Very intriguing. I like going off roading but haven't been extreme off roading. I always wanted the Rubicon just because the front and rear Lockers. But it looks like something I might be able to do without . Some of you guys state that you never used them. How about the locking sway bar?
Love my Eaton true track in the front and back better then lunch box and not as expensive as a full locker. You don't even know its there when driving on the road until you need it.
Ditto Eaton/Detroit... Yes. I have the same in my 2015 JKU.
I think you meant the opposite. When turning with the axle with the axle unlocked, The inner tire wants to rotate slower because the turn radius is much smaller than the outside tire. The outside tire needs to perform more revolutions than the inner tire to complete a turn. Thus the outer tire rotates faster than the inner. But I know what you mean.
I find lockers truly help on very steep climbs when traction starts getting loose . I've seen 40 inch rigs slipping , and stock locked up vehicles cruise by
A lunchbox locker is not a limited slip. It’s a variation of the Detroit locker. Essentially it’s a ratchet system that allows for the road to accelerate the wheel faster than the carrier but will not allow the wheels to rotate slower than the carrier.
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Those teeth are engaged under straight driving. Turn and the outside wheel is accelerated by the ground. An internal ring disconnects the teeth and allows the wheel to spin faster. Once the speeds equalize the spring forces the teeth back into interference mode. It’s an interference clutch not a friction clutch.
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Though I suppose you could make a Detroit locker with friction clutches to act like a limited slip.
I've done everything on a rear stock LSD 🤣 sometimes on 2WD!
But with a wormgear LSD up front and the break assit trackion honestly eliminated the need for a locker
yes! lockers before lightbars. lockers are way more important than MOST nearly all the junk bought for rigs.
I'll take a regear first . Or do them both at the same time .
Yea and armor before that. A good set of rock sliders and skid plates.
@@Gilbertmk2 yeah if you are going places you need lockers you might need skids but not really. skid are only needed in the rocks, while lockers are needed no matter the terrain. so no I dont agree you need skids first.
@@immelting9834 yeah if you are going up a tire size. if you are not changing tires then why the gear change?
@@nicholasbaldwin1674 I guess. I haven't needed a locker yet but I've bent up my running boards so I have sliders coming. A-trac in my 4runner has worked so well I may never add a locker.
My first car was a tubbed '66 Nova with a spool, we sold that and I got a '73 Camaro with a Detroit Locker, you could back up in a strait line for 15 feet and it would engage.
I absolutely love my Jeep WK's Quadra Drive 2 system. Even more so with Jscan phone app, where I can lock rear and front at will even in 4hi. And for my other car, Golf GTI mk5 it's Wavetrac LSD, since it's FWD vehicle and they're pretty horrible with open diffs and lot of power (obviously tuned). That's where Wavetrac comes in and oh boy does it deliver 😁
I like traction, not only for off roading, but also on road use too, since we get long winters with lot of snow here, so I'll take all the goodies I can (and GTI is completely different beast on dry roads with Wavetrac too 😅)
Yes. Yes I do. The open diffs in my YJ kill me on articulated climbs.
General Motors has a very good auto locker. Especially in a 14 bolt. Early cucvs had a Detroit locker. Later ton and a quarter trucks were spooled. The Humvee which replaced it had torsen traction aids
I wouldn't be surprised if some Landrovers come with lockers. Also some of our Freightliner trucks at work come with lockers. I don't know if that is from Freightliner or Versalift or whoever sets up the truck.
I've done all the lockers and low gears thing. Low gears are great. Lockers though? Depends on what wheeling you want. I found after putting lockers in it was great fun.. Until I had to go to really hard places to find a challenge and always wheeled with others. Well. No one gets left behind, and there's always that one guy that mashes the skinny pedal to make things happen and he breaks stuff. Now no one can leave until he's fixed or gets help off the trail except for the guy that runs for parts. Got tired of that. So I now enjoy the challenges I can find most anywhere without lockers. Still don't wheel alone much, but at least when I do, most anyone can help if I get in trouble.
Lift, gears and tires first. Lockers front and rear second. After having multiple vehicles with, I wouldn’t think of going wheeling without them. Especially here in AZ.
The on tire manors are acceptable pretty much right away. As are loud mud terrains. Thats an upside in my mind. 😉
I'm right there w/you. Except I do gears/locker at the same time. It's my bridge between the 2, lol. Lockers make everything easier & are only a 'problem' on slow u-turn's. Don't fear the gear!
At 7:17, the passenger of the red Jeep threw something into the brush. Remember, leave no trace, and tread lightly.
The jeep tj rubicon lockers are air lockers with electric selection that powers a compressor for each axel
In the 1970s had a 53 willys no lift no lockers 15” tires 538 gears front an rear did rubicon many times never needed lockers an never had any problems but I do get it great video as always be safe 👍👍👍
The 70's were a special time!
@@TrailBuilt oh most definitely great times 👍👍👍
Yeah, those were good times. I did the JJ in 1993 in a 92 YJ on 31s, 2" springs, 3.55s and a lock-right lunch box. I had zero problem. 33s were big then, and 35s YUGE! From the videos I see today, since then, the trail looks a bit more eroded. I still want a CJ3B tho...
The first time I went over the Rubicon, I was a six year old kid riding in the front passenger seat of an uncle's Willys MB. It was all stock, right down to NDT tires on combat rims, excepting for an aftermarket roll-over protection bar and aftermarket recovery hooks.
No lift. No lockers. No big rubber. No problem.
The last time I did the Rubicon, I did it in a TJ on 31" BFG AT's, with 4:11 gears and factory LSD in the D-35 rear. And I was pulling my M-416 cargo trailer behind me when I did it.
I have a CJ-2A now. Open front / rear and it'll probably stay that way. The issue with flatfenders for me never was running out of traction... I could use the brake and gas at the same time to equalize the friction on either side of the diff carriers and keep all fours turning when I needed them to. It was occasionally running out of low gears. SM-420 with a 7:1 first gear fixed that issue right up in my latest one.
It's amazing what you can do without when you're curb weight is under 2,400 pounds and you're not packing an extra ton of trail-hugging lard with you everywhere.
I had the CJ-2A out to Moab shortly after my wife immigrated from Italy. She wanted to go on a camping trip -never been camping, ever.... So, I picked Moab to take her on one.
While out on that trip, a couple of folks asked me what kind of lockers I was running. They couldn't believe it was open front and rear. But it is.
I've run lunchbox lockers and its true, they can lock up on slippery roads. if you live somewhere it snows or you have slick roads, the open diffs are safer. I would prefer a rear torsion type WITH locking which imo the best
yes, because I already installed the switch, it looks great btw.
I unfortunately have a vehicle that is not aftermarket friendly 😕,
a 02 Mitsubishi Montero Sport XLS AWD.
I luckily located a used Factory Hybrid LS that is compatible with my 9.5" carrier and 4.900 gearing. It will be installed this season at some point in time.
Not 1000% necessary,, just a modest insurance policy 😉👍.
Safe travels. G.
I'm building an offroader with a Dana 60 up front. I want to spool it for offroad, but then be able to unlock the hubs for pavement. The rear is a clutch LSD and I think that combo will work pretty well. My current build has an open front and spool in the back and it's terrible on blacktop. haha
It really depends on what you are doing with your rig. I use both lockers all the time when I am rock crawling. If you have them, use them. Trying to tackle obstacles without locking the axle will increase the odds of you breaking something. There are lots of times I could probably make it up an obstacle without, but why risk breaking something? I used to always give the really tough obstacles a try without the lockers engaged. Bumping, bouncing, and roasting the tires on rock is how axle shafts break. Also OX makes a mechanically switched, selectable locker.
Most people don't need them as much as they think they do. I've seen good factory LSDs and even open diffs go places I would have previously not thought possible with how people talk about how you must have lockers. If you're a truly serious off roader doing serious crawling or mudding, definitely get lockers in that case if you can. But for most people including overlanders a decent LSD and good tires will be very capable for any mild to moderate trail and will have further on-road advantages as well.
7:18 = litter bug ! What happened to keeping the trails clean ?
Whoa dude! Not cool! Good catch Bibi!
Lookin forward to part 2. I have been back and forth on this. I have a wrangler sport. 2015. I’ve been down some pretty technical stuff and only a couple of times have I thought I needed lockers. And those days of seeking out crazy trails are behind me.
Still, I want them installed because I’m vain.
Thanks so much Robert! Stay tuned for Part 2!
I have front and rear Detroit True-Tracs in my 2015. They really are a step up, and better than one locker for sure. Worth consideration for something that is just always there and working when the go pedal is pushed.
Wrangler TJ Rubicon has air locks from the factory. It has two small air compressors to actuate the lockers. Thanks me later.
I said the same thing lol
Gm has a g80 locker factory
I've done plenty of crazy trails with open diffs. I've even cleared some obstacles that fits with lockers couldn't clear. Usually due to ground clearance issues.
That being said, there are some obstacles that i just can not do with open diffs. There are no lines where one side or the other don't loose traction and spin in place, and no amount of momentum will help.
You forgot to mention that air lockers engage immediately and stay locked when changing direction, E-lockers don't. May not be as important for an overland vehicle, but essential for a rock crawler!
And what position do you hold at ARB?
@@bearchow1929 I am not affiliated with any companies, and I don't remember mentioning ARB? There are other brands of air lockers. It has to do with the way the lockers engage. Air lockers use the force of the air pushing on the bladder to engage instantly. E-lockers use the rotation of the axle to engage, so it is delayed and if you change direction it will unlock and re-lock the locker.
@@markcarpenter3600 Sounds to me like you've torn down and worked on a few of both!
@@bearchow1929 I went with the ARB lockers when I re-geared my WJ to 4.56 party because ARB had the only locker I found available for the Dana 44A on the rear. I like to do a lot of research before I spend my hard earned money. Understanding the differences I debated going open diff or putting an e-locker in the front and air in the rear, because I don't feel that I will use the front locker very often on an overland vehicle, that has a long travel solid front axle. In the end I went with dual ARB lockers. I don't have to worry about treating one different than the other.
@@bearchow1929 Next month I will be looking at a cut and turn for the front axle. Shooting for a 1.3° pinion and 7° caster. Lift will be finnaly done
2001 jeep tj with Eaton true-trac front and rear loving it and haven't gotten stuck yet
2 gen Mitsubishi Montero SR has rear factory air lockers as an option!
The Mitsubishi Pajero (montero/shogun) gen4 has a air locker , from factory with a tiny compressor mounted above the rear differential center that runs at about 4 PSI to activate the lock
It also has an internal switch to act as a sensor to tell the cars ecu that it’s locked, an illuminate a light on the dash when it’s truly engaged
I learned how to drive 4x4ing. Lockers are probably overused in a lot of cases. I was with a group of about 24 other mostly jeeps where the trail had a sign posted saying lockers required. Had no issues with my jeep on 315s and no lockers.
Yes
3:05 so a limited slip works like a locker. It locks up the gears but with a clutch or the binding action of axial thrust generated by helical gears. Clutch strength will determine how much torque is biased to the wheel with the most traction before the diff starts to spin. (Torsen is more complicated and requires input torque).
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Essentially a limited slip will not transfer power to a stalled wheel. It will only transfer torque proportional to its clutch strength. Since power is torque*rpm any amount of torque on a stalled wheel (0rpm) generates no power. Conversely no torque delivered to a spinning wheel also won’t generate power.
So until power from the limited slip clutch is delivered to the stalled wheel in excess of the static friction the wheel experiences you get 1 wheel drive. Fair point. I suspect torque is always applied to stalled wheel but before it overcomes friction no rotation occurs, so no work ( force x distance) is done and no power (work x time) is at the stalled wheel, despite being subject to a force (torque)
@@laprepper correct. Clutch doesn’t transfer power just torque. So it always will transfer torque to the stalled wheel. If that torque isn’t enough to drive the wheel (extreme situations) then that wheel will receive no power because torque at 0 rpm is 0 HP just like 0 torque at any rpm is 0 HP.
You honestly only need a rear diff locker, front lockers really only come in handy when you’re crawling over obstacles that are 30 to 45+ degrees. Or are somewhat slippery
Agreed!!
Jeep tj/Lj rubicons come factory with air lockers!
I like the automatic locker GM has available on their trucks with the tow package. I’ve done a few muddy uphill trails in my Z71 Colorado without even needing to switch into 4WD.
Agreed! I installed an Eaton TrueTrac in my 2000 GMC Yukon (General Grabbers A/T X). It’s like a more beefed up G80 locker because it has no clutches and springs. I went to hit some trails and ole girl plowed through everything in 2WD. It was pretty cool, the truck was shaking violently just digging and chewing through the terrain. I think the G80 and TrueTrac are both made by Eaton.
Older GQ Nissan patrols factory rear locker was basically an air locker except it worked on vacuum
Hi, you can find kind of an air locker (selctable) on partner dangel, it's an option from factory. It works with a solenoid valve wich connects the vacuum system from the car to the locker
would like to see a video on axels and axels swaps/upgrades. Dana 45 vs 60s, others, etc.
Great idea! Thanks Mike!
@@TrailBuilt And high pinion vs low front and rear. The load limits of each varies depending on direction of travel and loading.
I didn’t hear you talk about TruTrac or helical differentials and their pros and cons.
I bought my Jeep with lockers aka a Rubicon because I bought it to offroad. Knowing what I know now I would have bought a sport and put it on tons with a Atlas instead of buying a top of the line Jeep.
To make a Rubi better, one has to remove all the expensive parts that made it just good enough, but not quite good enough. On the other hand, one can sell the take-off parts to offset the difference. Not sure if it is a net gain or net loss in the end though.
@@brentworls8509 only thing left that's Rubicon drive train is the 4:1 t-case LOL
@@Bigdaddyslasher Which is good for west coast rock crawling. I didn't like mine much for mud back east. I had to use 4wd low to lock it, and it wouldn't quite get fast enough to shed the mud. But yes, better out there.
@@brentworls8509 I'm in Texas we have some serious rock crawling parks. Like Wolf Caves, Katemcy rocks, Barnwell mountain, Trees Ranch, Hidden Falls and some smaller places that. I listed those from the hardest to the easiest. Momma said mud is da debil!!
@@Bigdaddyslasher Love Texas! Come and Take It! Had my 96 Cherokee there one time for a multi-week trip years ago. The 31" BFG ATs didn't like that weird mud you guys get.
@5:36 Silverado 1500 Trail Boss models come with automatic real locker. It is slip based.
I'm sure lockers our best but good limited-slip where we were from it was mostly sand and mud. Did actually damn good!
"Whoop Whoop, Whoop Whoop!" Yeah, we hear that all day and all night long in the Bronx. It's called the NYPD.
Lockers should be at front of the build list.
Lockers and low gearing just enhances your ability to wheel slower and break less stuff.
On the trail you can three point turn or lock and unlock after you clear an obstacle and need to turn. Never ever engage a locker during an attempt at an obstacle. Always before..
Was that lower Terminator off Table Mesa RD AZ? 👍🏻
I'd say on light/medium overlanding, No. Anywhere past that, I'd say its better to have and not need than vice versa. EDIT my XJ doesnt have lockers but itll go pretty far in 4 LO. Its also not lifted either. I just run 28" A/T and dont rock climb anything crazy. I do have a front diff protector though.
Don’t TJ & LJ have pneumatic lockers?
Ox, manual select-able, lockers get no love :(
Currently running an Aussie, lunch-box, locker in the front of my TJ. Hope to Put an Ox in the 8.8 rear
I did all of uwharrie national forest minus the front side of Daniel (did backside) in my 3rd gen Tacoma 4 cyl with no lockers
GMC is still using the "gov bomb" flyweight type for rear diffs, around corners in wet/icy conditions the diff locks after the inside tire starts to spin (100 rpm) causing loss of traction to both rear wheels. I prefer the old clutch limited slip back in the 12 bolt diffs., more predictable.
Not even watching this after what I've done with my stock sr5 4runner. Just throw on some decent tires and you good to go!
If you have a lunchbox locker in the front, are in two wheel drive, it can't engage, correct?
Lake Havasu ☀️ AZ
if the lunchbox locker is in the rear and you are in two wheel drive... it can engage. in the front then well it is still engage it just isn't locked during turning as it "clicks" and unlocks to make turns
It also depends on your hubs. I've got a Spartan up front with manual hubs, there is no clicking if I have my hubs unlocked.
Correct. A lunchbox locker in the front axle, in 2wd, will not engage at all.
That is correct. In 2wd a drop-in style locker like the Made in USA AUSSIE-LOCKER or TORQ-LOCKER will act like an open differential.
@@nicholasbaldwin1674 A rear lunchbox style locker is always working. The more Throttle = more Torque = More Lock! When set up properly they the most reliable and most cost effective method of getting Traction To Go Anywhere!👍
"Lights before lockers" -KC HiLites
PREACH! 🙏
At least your recovery crew can find you in the dark easier.
WHICH LOCKER IS BEST FOR WRANGLERS. LOOKING AT DETROIT.
Locking a 30 front will push the limits of its design, a limited slip might get you farther. I blew up a lunch-box, and gears in a rear 35 without big tires. Something to consider depending on what axles are under the Jeep. I wouldn't lock anything under a D44 unless the rig was very light and stock power with mild tires.
hi
you have a very good Channel for offroad but my girl friend does not speak English well and speaks Dutch, so she watches your videos with subtitles
Please upload your video with subtitles
Thanks
Chevy has had the G80 Automatic locker for the last 20 years. From the factory… I don’t think he did enough research.
The G80 Gov Lock has been in chevs for 50 years not just 20. Known as the 'Gov Bomb' for good reason. They may be ok when new but become very unpredictable. The governor randomly unlocks and locks and I clean sheared an axle on a full float 14 bolt. 2nd time it grenaded the carrier. On the street both times. C20 not K so not big tyres. Not something I would put in the class of a Locker.
I now run a Detroit.
@@UFO-047 just like anything not maintained, it will break I have a g80 in my 2002 sierra on 42in tires, no issues.
Well done video
In 3 years I've only used my back lockers twice and that's becouse when I was at jeep jamboree they where showing my wife how to use it.. I've never engaged my front lockers .
This is the video I'm looking for.
Glad we can help!
2003-2006 Jeep Rubicons came with air lockers.
You completely got that backwards your outside tire hast to turn faster because it has a greater distance to travel.
For me I run 37s on 17inch beads with rear lockers. I have a 2018 jk Sahara I got a D30 in the front. Yes I know the hate ima get from it I sleeved and trussed the front axle. I do run chromoly shafts that I got on a cheap deal. I’ve yet to blow it and I’ve wheeled it pretty hard. I do have a E locker on the front but mostly I leave it unlocked I touch mud and sand most of the time hardly no rocks in southern texas. I do have a pro rock 44 from dyna I’m just waiting to blow the D30. Latley I hit Moab made it through I hit hidden falls made it through. She won’t blow 😂 I’m sure at 123k mikes it’s bound to go but hey I got a built 44 ready to swap! Yes lockers make a huge difference but I can say just having one locker can make the difference
Air lockers are dealer options on commercial trucks like Peterbuilt
The tires on the outside of the turn are rotating faster because they are covering a greater distance. I'm sure you just misspoke at the beginning of this video.
Did your boy just litter at 7:19?!?
Not our boy! We don't litter!
@@TrailBuilt well you might want to edit that part out. Really makes you guys look bad. It’s a shame to see it at all. Honestly, I don’t really want to support the channel and watch any more of y’all’s videos after seeing something like that.
@@300clubrecords bye
@@jasoncasebier5151 I’m guessing that was you then
@@300clubrecords no, I actually clean up litter on trails. I however am not a snowflake who’s going to complain to stop watching a companies videos because someone threw out a piece of trash when I know for a fact somewhere in your life you threw trash on the ground. Stop being a hypocrite and enjoy life.
I have the winch locker
Could you talk about center locking diffs?
We will try and cover that in our second part of this series!
@@TrailBuilt I hope you've figured out how dangerous an unlocked from front to rear four wheel drive system is when backing down a very steep, loose hill on brakes only. Few people have experienced this, know about it, and fixed it.
Your explanation at 1:51 of the INSIDE tires wanting to rotate FASTER, is BACKWARDS.
The INSIDE tires in a turn radius naturally want to rotate SLOWER than the outside tires in the turn radius.
My Silverado has an g80 auto locker
Hmmmm i have a loc right in myza 00 durango 9.5 rear with 33" no probs could do circles all day with it cant even hear it nor feel it on zee streets .....
I use a lincoln locker... it costs less than a dollar and hasn't broken yet :)