Agree that Pioneer is more full, with more bass. But the SMSL is pretty darn good as well. I do like the space saving you get with the SMSL for a desktop application. Your little risers should be fine for the Pioneer. Well done.
Nice and interesting review. I also like the "blind' A-B sound tests. They usually surprise us when you finally reveal the A and the B. Let me just start by saying that Pioneer amps are very good and usually outperform the other known brands when compared at the same price level. Also, I am no expert to be able to explain why that is, but I have quiet a few small class d amps from aiyima and smsl (still waiting for my new Aiyima A80 and a set of Oracle 828 op amps! ) and although they can sound very good when paired with a suitable dac and pair of speakers, the 2 x 50w at 8ohms of my Denon PMA720ne and the 2 x 70w at 8 ohms of my Pioneer A50, blow the 2 x 108w at 8ohms with the 48v 5ah supply, out of the water all day! With small speakers and in smaller rooms, the small amps can compare. But when I did a test in my large living room and with larger speakers, the small guys couldn't keep up with the big boys, especially in the bass area. Plus the big ones always sound a bit more '' correct" if I can use that term. Perhaps someone can explain this power thing. Small class d amps definitely have their place as you explain and are fun to play with but so do the big boys.
That is exactly my system now. I don't use computer speakers anymore. Instead I have my B+W Aura amp, with DVD/CD Sony player on my dog leg return part of my desk. Tannoy 603 speakers either side of my screens, and Turntable stabilised as well. It is wonderful. Just now thinking of improved the computer sound a tad more and getting an optical sound card and a DAC to connect to the amp to make it perfect. Why? Although my excellent computer speakers were good, having the computer sound output connected to the Amp is so much better.
I'm leaning that way nowadays on the secondhand market. They've made a few gems of "affordable" hi-fi cassette decks over the years including some of their models right up to the late 90s. I've just picked up a fully serviced CT-S450S for £80 delivered. That gives me Dolby S (which is mindblowingly good!), Super Auto BLE automatic tape calibration (also excellent), and their FLEX system that automatically compensates for lack of high frequencies on playback due to azimuth misalignment on the recording deck. I know cassettes are fundamentally pointless nowadays, but it's still nice to finally own something I always wanted but couldn't afford new at the time.
Dolby S was the biggest pull for me. It's like Dolby C on steroids but with vastly reduced potential for tracking errors from one deck to another. This is my third Dolby S deck and they all play back each other's recordings accurately. Like Dolby C, it's specifically designed from the ground up to combat the effects of tape saturation associated mostly with Type I tapes, so even a cheap TDK FE tape produces very similar results to an expensive Type IV tape and still has plenty of output up to 18kHz. Not bad considering this is only a 2-head deck. I'm old enough to no longer be able to hear above 15kHz anyway, so it still sounds excellent to my ears.
Its also a good way use for many equiptments including their PC or maybe even for TV (with ADC converter dongle). But to me, a bookshelf receiver is a good way to use for PC. sure they're not like any big Receivers but for smaller convienent, its decent. And important thing that most young people dont know. NEVER EVER in Phono inputs, this is intended for Turntable requiring Phono if they dont have built in Phono or doesnt like the built in Preamp. plugging their PC in Phono inputs can cause louder bass and full distortion. a good way to plug in are Tuner, Tape or even CD. Which they are just normally Line In/AUX but labeled based on equipments. For Tape Outputs, i think its actually a cool idea to digitize their Vinyl, Cassette or even on PC playing on YT or Streaming (no grey zone intented). If you probably own a USB Audio Interface, that should be practical for any use for this Receiver.
Funny timing. I hooked my desktop Pioneer Andrew Jones bookshelf speakers up to my marantz pm6007 amp on the weekend for shits and giggles and because it just wasn't being used enough. Sounds far better than the douk audio st-01/aiyima t9 that was powering the bookshelves beforehand. Monitor stand is a Y shape so it doesn't block many of the ventilation holes but I might look at raising it slightly like yourself. Not entirely practical having an amp on the desk but the sound difference is day and night. Stalker 2 through the speakers and sub is a different experience altogether and music is on another level. I prefer my creative G6 external soundcard for headphone use though. Seems a bigger soundstage through that, than using the headphone jack on the Marantz.
I am thinking of doing this. I have a set of Sonus faber Lumina II's laying around without a home. Might try them as desktop speakers. maybe go with a Rotel A8 or Wiim amp or NAD 3020 etc. something small.
"Outside the box" thinking. I like it. There are some very nice older Marantz Slimline receivers out there for very little money. I'd rather spend $150-$250 US for a well-regarded, well-equipped, great sounding used Integrated than the cheap class D amps that are available new. Nothing wrong with class D, not knocking them at all, they have their place for sure especially if your desktop space is limited. But if music is a priority and the space permits, why not think "outside the box?" Great vid, I enjoyed this one.
Yeah the in between solution is a cd receiver. Marantz cr, Denon ud m30, Yamaha mcr/crx etc they often turn up. Smallish footprint pretty reasonable output.
Bear in mind these old amps uses a hell of a lot more power than a little class D amp, if you work from home or do a lot of gaming that could add up in electricity.
Hi thank you very much for your excellent reviewed I have a strong feeling that amps like this one have an untapped potential for one reason To keep manufacturing costs down they use cheapest technical solutions Some have more impact than others on sound You mention the speakers out quality That is an important part Often they use iron sheets to make the output connections Very bad indeed If we take as reference some very good and very expensive british amp like Exposure ones we can see that the connections from the output devices to the speakers terminals are done with thick copper wires of the same kind of speaker cables And moreover Exposure outs accept only 4mm bananas When i see a tech solution implemented in such good amps it means a lot to me It means that that solution is very effective I am sure that some mods on this amp will elevate its already good sound to very very good sound Then maybe better and bigger diodes, ps caps ... but not much else Thanks again and kind regards gino
Annoyingly, there are a number of different standards that all classify as "banana". My Denon threw me with its plugged (ie, bunged up) banana sockets at first until I realised they were removable plugs, but I really struggled to get even one of them out without butchering the socket. It was a brand new amplifier at the time, so I certainly didn't want to risk doing that! I'd already ordered then cancelled an order for a nice set of banana plugs by this point. As my amp never gets moved anyway, I settled for the binding post option in the end and haven't had a problem with it in nearly 4 years.
@@MrSlipstreem Yeah. I dont remember removing anything with the Pioneer Amps. It's different now. Nothing wrong with wired if you'er not removing them. It's a pain when you do. But you wont lose anything in the path signal.
It seems perfectly sensible to me if you have the space, but there are far cheaper ways of doing it. When I upgraded my main surround amp to a Denon Dolby Atmos 7.1 system, the old JVC RX-E5 Dolby Pro Logic II 5.1 amp went into the bedroom where the PC lives. The PC has digital optical out and the amp has digital optical in, so there's no need for an external DAC. The JVC is a slimline amp (it's only 7cm tall) with no cooling grills in the top, so I can reclaim the space by standing something else on top of it. If you went this route from scratch, the total cost would be around £50 plus speakers. Not bad considering it was a £300 amp in 2004 which would be over £500 in today's money.
Pioneer wins for me by quite a bit. I have some JBL professional powered monitors on my desk top at the moment, however I have a cambridge audio one, that i am gonna dig out the loft and play these through some Wharfdale 220's and see how i get on with it after watching this. The cambridge audio one is a half width unit, it plays CD's and and has a dac, so gonna be doing me own sound test soon, lol
Both are nice , but I’ll take the Pioneer 😊
Love your Chanel so interesting please keep on going
Always loved Pioneer
Me too
Agree that Pioneer is more full, with more bass. But the SMSL is pretty darn good as well. I do like the space saving you get with the SMSL for a desktop application. Your little risers should be fine for the Pioneer. Well done.
Another excellent video!
I’ve been using an integrated amp and speakers for about 20 years. Use an external sound card from creative as a dac. It’s awesome!
It’s the pioneer for me every time it’s lasted all this time and should go on for a long time to come😎👍
Nice and interesting review. I also like the "blind' A-B sound tests. They usually surprise us when you finally reveal the A and the B. Let me just start by saying that Pioneer amps are very good and usually outperform the other known brands when compared at the same price level. Also, I am no expert to be able to explain why that is, but I have quiet a few small class d amps from aiyima and smsl (still waiting for my new Aiyima A80 and a set of Oracle 828 op amps! ) and although they can sound very good when paired with a suitable dac and pair of speakers, the 2 x 50w at 8ohms of my Denon PMA720ne and the 2 x 70w at 8 ohms of my Pioneer A50, blow the 2 x 108w at 8ohms with the 48v 5ah supply, out of the water all day! With small speakers and in smaller rooms, the small amps can compare. But when I did a test in my large living room and with larger speakers, the small guys couldn't keep up with the big boys, especially in the bass area. Plus the big ones always sound a bit more '' correct" if I can use that term. Perhaps someone can explain this power thing. Small class d amps definitely have their place as you explain and are fun to play with but so do the big boys.
That is exactly my system now. I don't use computer speakers anymore. Instead I have my B+W Aura amp, with DVD/CD Sony player on my dog leg return part of my desk. Tannoy 603 speakers either side of my screens, and Turntable stabilised as well. It is wonderful. Just now thinking of improved the computer sound a tad more and getting an optical sound card and a DAC to connect to the amp to make it perfect. Why? Although my excellent computer speakers were good, having the computer sound output connected to the Amp is so much better.
You know where I stand, I'm Pioneer thru & thru! 💯%
I'm leaning that way nowadays on the secondhand market. They've made a few gems of "affordable" hi-fi cassette decks over the years including some of their models right up to the late 90s. I've just picked up a fully serviced CT-S450S for £80 delivered. That gives me Dolby S (which is mindblowingly good!), Super Auto BLE automatic tape calibration (also excellent), and their FLEX system that automatically compensates for lack of high frequencies on playback due to azimuth misalignment on the recording deck. I know cassettes are fundamentally pointless nowadays, but it's still nice to finally own something I always wanted but couldn't afford new at the time.
Dolby S was the biggest pull for me. It's like Dolby C on steroids but with vastly reduced potential for tracking errors from one deck to another. This is my third Dolby S deck and they all play back each other's recordings accurately. Like Dolby C, it's specifically designed from the ground up to combat the effects of tape saturation associated mostly with Type I tapes, so even a cheap TDK FE tape produces very similar results to an expensive Type IV tape and still has plenty of output up to 18kHz. Not bad considering this is only a 2-head deck. I'm old enough to no longer be able to hear above 15kHz anyway, so it still sounds excellent to my ears.
SMSL sounded slightly veiled in comparison... Pioneer quality.... 👍
Its also a good way use for many equiptments including their PC or maybe even for TV (with ADC converter dongle). But to me, a bookshelf receiver is a good way to use for PC. sure they're not like any big Receivers but for smaller convienent, its decent.
And important thing that most young people dont know. NEVER EVER in Phono inputs, this is intended for Turntable requiring Phono if they dont have built in Phono or doesnt like the built in Preamp. plugging their PC in Phono inputs can cause louder bass and full distortion. a good way to plug in are Tuner, Tape or even CD. Which they are just normally Line In/AUX but labeled based on equipments.
For Tape Outputs, i think its actually a cool idea to digitize their Vinyl, Cassette or even on PC playing on YT or Streaming (no grey zone intented). If you probably own a USB Audio Interface, that should be practical for any use for this Receiver.
Funny timing.
I hooked my desktop Pioneer Andrew Jones bookshelf speakers up to my marantz pm6007 amp on the weekend for shits and giggles and because it just wasn't being used enough.
Sounds far better than the douk audio st-01/aiyima t9 that was powering the bookshelves beforehand.
Monitor stand is a Y shape so it doesn't block many of the ventilation holes but I might look at raising it slightly like yourself.
Not entirely practical having an amp on the desk but the sound difference is day and night.
Stalker 2 through the speakers and sub is a different experience altogether and music is on another level.
I prefer my creative G6 external soundcard for headphone use though.
Seems a bigger soundstage through that, than using the headphone jack on the Marantz.
Pioneer sounded warmer
B sounds more fluid and real.
I am thinking of doing this. I have a set of Sonus faber Lumina II's laying around without a home. Might try them as desktop speakers. maybe go with a Rotel A8 or Wiim amp or NAD 3020 etc. something small.
"Outside the box" thinking. I like it. There are some very nice older Marantz Slimline receivers out there for very little money. I'd rather spend $150-$250 US for a well-regarded, well-equipped, great sounding used Integrated than the cheap class D amps that are available new. Nothing wrong with class D, not knocking them at all, they have their place for sure especially if your desktop space is limited. But if music is a priority and the space permits, why not think "outside the box?" Great vid, I enjoyed this one.
Yeah the in between solution is a cd receiver. Marantz cr, Denon ud m30, Yamaha mcr/crx etc they often turn up. Smallish footprint pretty reasonable output.
May as well buy a used mid grade for this el' cheapie'
Bear in mind these old amps uses a hell of a lot more power than a little class D amp, if you work from home or do a lot of gaming that could add up in electricity.
It's just a heater that also makes sound...
Big time.
Who the hell is going to worry bout that mate lol
Hi thank you very much for your excellent reviewed I have a strong feeling that amps like this one have an untapped potential for one reason To keep manufacturing costs down they use cheapest technical solutions Some have more impact than others on sound
You mention the speakers out quality That is an important part Often they use iron sheets to make the output connections Very bad indeed
If we take as reference some very good and very expensive british amp like Exposure ones we can see that the connections from the output devices to the speakers terminals are done with thick copper wires of the same kind of speaker cables
And moreover Exposure outs accept only 4mm bananas When i see a tech solution implemented in such good amps it means a lot to me It means that that solution is very effective
I am sure that some mods on this amp will elevate its already good sound to very very good sound
Then maybe better and bigger diodes, ps caps ... but not much else
Thanks again and kind regards
gino
I have a soft spot for Pioneer. I'm surprised it's not compatible with banana plugs. I have an A-400 from about 1990.
Annoyingly, there are a number of different standards that all classify as "banana". My Denon threw me with its plugged (ie, bunged up) banana sockets at first until I realised they were removable plugs, but I really struggled to get even one of them out without butchering the socket. It was a brand new amplifier at the time, so I certainly didn't want to risk doing that! I'd already ordered then cancelled an order for a nice set of banana plugs by this point. As my amp never gets moved anyway, I settled for the binding post option in the end and haven't had a problem with it in nearly 4 years.
@@MrSlipstreem Yeah. I dont remember removing anything with the Pioneer Amps. It's different now. Nothing wrong with wired if you'er not removing them. It's a pain when you do. But you wont lose anything in the path signal.
There is a small difference. Always nice that you can have 4 speakers hang on to your amp and have more inputs.
Use a Billie Amp it is small and has phono stage.
It seems perfectly sensible to me if you have the space, but there are far cheaper ways of doing it. When I upgraded my main surround amp to a Denon Dolby Atmos 7.1 system, the old JVC RX-E5 Dolby Pro Logic II 5.1 amp went into the bedroom where the PC lives. The PC has digital optical out and the amp has digital optical in, so there's no need for an external DAC. The JVC is a slimline amp (it's only 7cm tall) with no cooling grills in the top, so I can reclaim the space by standing something else on top of it. If you went this route from scratch, the total cost would be around £50 plus speakers. Not bad considering it was a £300 amp in 2004 which would be over £500 in today's money.
I have desktop+DacTopping 10s+Nad 3020i+Indiana Line
Pioneer wins for me by quite a bit. I have some JBL professional powered monitors on my desk top at the moment, however I have a cambridge audio one, that i am gonna dig out the loft and play these through some Wharfdale 220's and see how i get on with it after watching this. The cambridge audio one is a half width unit, it plays CD's and and has a dac, so gonna be doing me own sound test soon, lol
I'll stick with the pioneer, for me the pioneer sounds better. Good videos, greetings from Spain.