I was riding a yz450f till I got on a ktm xc300 and fell in love, I told the wife to take pics and list the 450 for sale that day.. long live the two stroke!!!!
Ian, i did a similar thing, sold my bored and cammed crf450 as soon as i rode a mates ktm300, and went and bought one. I do love the raw power of my cr500, but the 300 is such a nice bike, smooth tractable power right down to idle.. and an animal when you get on it and let the revs rise 🤘
@@peteuncle2935 I haven't had the opportunity to throw a leg over a 500 two stroke yet but I can only imagine... I know how crazy the power is on my 300 with a high compression head on it. RK TEC makes some awesome custom milled heads for a great price
I used to port everything. Even my lawnmowers lol and when I used to race 4 wheelers. 88 honda 250r and I used a yz piston and rod and had a oversized sleeve put in and had a spacer under cylinder that was about a half inch thick. I forget what I board it too but it was alot and I spent like 40 + hours porting and polishing. And man what a ripper that was . Porting makes a huge difference if you do it right. But love the kx but my heart is with honda. Great comparison guys.
I purchased my first CR 500 in 1985 and quickly wore out a pair of boots learning to start that beast. I freshen up the stable in 87, 90 & in 92 bought a CR 250& 500 what a year that was, after that my son received the new bikes as he began racing. We’ve had many modern 4 strokes and being a performance engine builder coaxing rideable power improvements was the goal but the expense of doing it is not practical for anyone but the top pro’s. But the linear power of the 4 strokes is the ONLY reason to consider one but you better have a deep pocket and an understanding wife that’s for sure! GOD BLESS AMERICA AND YOU!!!
Owned multiple CR & KX500's over the years. I prefer the KX in the dunes & desert out here in the West. I liked the CR more on the track. Enjoyed both machines. They are both RIPPA'S... At 55 now, I've slowed down but still would take a 500 over a modern 450 just for the simplicity & nostalgia.
You have to get the ignition re dun around the fly wheel if you can find someone that can do it the Cr do not ned it like the kx I had a huge Down pipe on it Bigger Fuel tap hose and Carburettor ,, a Great Bang on It on Methanol 11second 1/4 mile 125 mile an Hour on a dirt bike;;;;;;;;;;KaaTooNG.......KaaTooNG.......
Oh hell yeah they pull way harder then any four stroke lol. 250s 2 strokes pull as hard as a 450 n a 500 is insane. Lol. Even the air cooled 500s where beast an pulled hard.
I own an 81 YZ 465 what a smooth motor that is! I had cr480r and have ridden the KX 500 and cr500s, KX was an 85 I think it was air cooled the Cr 500 was an 85 and for me it was quite the rocket I was like 21 I’m 49 still love riding and still love the big 2 smokes!
I have a kx500 and a kx450f and I would say your assessment is spot on,the biggest difference to me is the mid range the 500 feels like the millennium falcon in 4th gear where the kx450f is much more snappy,as far as torque the 500 is way easier to lug in fact it likes that better than revving it out.
Hell yeah 2 stroke dirt bikes for life. Harley Davidson is the only 4 stroke I'll own. Good thing you got that rolling dyno to finally put arguments to rest.👍🇦🇺
Stock KTM525 SMR puts out 56hp. And is a carbureted engine design, built on the same basic layout as the 1983 Husky 510. I have a mildly upgraded 510, 1983, and it should dynomin the low 50s. The technology has always been there. Rotax 560s we’re putting out 55hp too in the 80s. Oh, I rebuild 4 stroke motors at home, in my garage.
Btw, I do LOVE all dirtbikes! Fact is we lucky we have what we have with CAFE & GOVT comin dwn on even leave blowers & such. Its not true that its sooooo hard to rebuild 4-strokes. Plus hard racers change oil every 2 races 🏁 MAX an are able to prolong the modern 4-strokes quite easy. Maxima/Motul/redline/Mobil1 make incredible 4-stroke racing oils!
A fully built 2stroke 500cc only gets you 4 more hp with 50cc more engine. I like what you guys do but I will take a 2016-2018 WR 450 with kickstart kit installed because the 18 does not have it installed from factory. Have it street legal and some power mods. 450s are more rideable for the east coast. Out west is a different story because it is more wide open.
Yeah I find it funny how people still think the 500 2 stroke is so godly. Modern 4 strokes have surpassed 2 strokes nowadays but they deny it. Tune a 21 yz 450 with simple bolt on mods and itll pull away from their modded 500s aswell as turn a faster lap time being more manageable with the power.
Ultimately your still putting 20yr old tech vs modern tech. I'd love to see a 500cc 2T developed similar to the modern 300's 2 strokes. I think the amount of usable power would the biggest gain. Imagine a 500 that didn't vibrate your teeth outta your head with minimal engine braking.
That is actually 35yr old technology vs modern technology. Honda detuned the CR500R engine from 1985 on. No matter how you look at it, you have got to give it to the two stroke engine design. Let’s be honest (yes, you spent 10K on a new 450, it’s all good), taking everything into account, the two stroke engine is the best design for motocross racing.
@@michaelmeykens3437 no.. the 2 stroke engine is clearly NOT the best design for motor cross racing. The modern 4t 450 only makes marginally better hp than a yz 250 2t. And within a couple pndft of torque. Yet destroys it in anything other than a drag race to the next corner.. Simply do to usable power over a much broader power curve Power that always thier Resulting in what really wins races.. TRACTION. The 2t unloads everything it has all at once. Wich might make great peak hp and torque numbers and be a blast to ride. But it's shit in comparison to usuable power. It's like high hp drag racers. You can only use what you can put down. I've owned some nasty cr 500. I've rode nastier kx 500. I've blown up my share of 450's and I currently ride a yz 250 2t. Cause I love it and will take it over a 4t every day. But plain and simple modern 4t didn't replace 2t because of peak power numbers. They replaced them because of how easy to use and broad thier power is. Wich 100% makes them the better racer. Oh and the 4t bangs out much higher rpm. Wich allows the 450 to literally walk away from the big 500 2t on the big end. Given traction 500 all day till 5th gear redline then 450 just walks on buy
Tpi. Sucks bbr makes a 500 kit for the 250/300 ktm. So you can get that buttery smooth 2t motor in 500. And a power valve for you cr guys...It ain't cheap thoe. Probably cost less to just have you crank balanced properly and motor blue printed. And then ported to your needs. But then your gonna need suspension
Just for giving the 4strokes as best chance to perform, could you Dyno a twin pipe 2019 Honda CRF450 if you get one in the shop one day? It's supposed to be the most powerful stock 450 of all time, so I'd like to see how it compares? I've just had a 35yr old 125 tuned and dyno'd at 25hp, and picked up 30% more power, so I'm a very happy chap even though it's not even half of that KX500! I can always dream though!👍
Basically what itll prove is modern stock 4 stroke 450s are comparable to modded 500s in power now a days. Fuel injection and capabilities of tuning digitally are a marvel, wait til variable timing cams are used like today's modern sohc and dohc high performance cars.
AWESOME GRAPHICS CHRISTIE! 😊 KK..Ship to Australia?...THIS is what we need so as to stick it to TP and the KTM crew and their multi $$ 4s at the next Finke desert run... AJ Wag....wheres the new 500s?? 😊
What I accomplished can be done in the stock cases also. The “lean” condition is also lending a little on the power too. I’d like to make a KX engine for you yet also. Good comparison.
I love those big 500s but I expected little more power outta the 500. I'm a banshee guy and I've seen many stock banshees with good pipes making 56hp. Banshees pick up alot of hp through mods
I am, and always will be a cr500 guy. Nothing ever seems to touch them. You can NOT ever compare a 2 stroke to a 4 stroke cc to cc. 2 smoke always win. Would like to see our 81 yz 456 on the dyno. DEATHTRAP!!
Absolutely bad ass ken!! Got to love the big bores . I have a 2006 rm 250 and a 2018 Rmz 450 that I bought new and I’d say they weren’t very far off from a power difference. I personally would love to know what each bike puts down to the wheel for hp and torque and compare the two. Both as definitely fast just don’t know who’s really on top.
Put my new '21 Yamaha YZ450F (5hrs total) w/new Yoshimura exhaust system + GTYR air filter kit on that dyno w/stinky the dyno man. My bike will match that & smoke ya @ 338.
Oh yeah? I got a crisp $100 bill that says ya won't. Text me at 860 916 9784 we will set up the showdown. I'll make you famous win or lose and your $100 will go to the museum roof fund lmao
@@KaplanCycles I'd say a 21 yz 450 with the gytr tuner used properly could meet the power needed to match those 2 strokes head for head. Dirt rider achieved achieved 53 + rwhp in stock form so with simple bolts ons and tune it could easily exceed the 500s you dynoed.
I'm a Honda guy through & through but Kawasaki always made fast machines! You'll never feel 0.7 H.P. or even 1 to 2 H.P. Difference...not really! No one has that type of feel. If someone says they notice a 1.5H.P. difference the feeling is in the head! No doubt the 500' s are the baddest machines on the planet....👍🏁
Surprise surprise, a fully built race engine is more powerful than a showroom stock one. Yes there's many years between them, except that the race builds are top-shelf, recent technology too. And midrange torque is something to consider, but you can drop several teeth on a 4T and make up the difference because of how much higher it revs (torque can be directly multiplied by gearing). I ride desert and mountains with my modified, 52whp '18 Husqy FX350. It's magic-carpet smooth and always predictable, the perfect adventure companion. It's plenty fast, especially because I can stay a gear lower and really cash in on the topend versus a 2T. If I want thrills and big power hits, I get them on the street with big turbo cars. To each their own.
Now tweak the ecu, do a pipe and a port job, and piston work on the 450 and do a dyno comparison to keep it fair. Btw I love 2 stokes. I just sold my 18 yz450f and picked up a 2021 ktm 300 xcw tpi. I have a special place in my heart for 500s though. Rode a few in the mid/late 90s
I have a fully built kx500 snowbike it's not the peak horsepower that is impressive about these bikes, it's the huge torque numbers from extremely low rpms that a 450 four stroke has no chance in hell to match. That's what you feel when you ride them. You need to over lay the dyno pulls and look at the torque. 2 stroke makes power every rotation of the crank four stroke makes every second add load like snow and it separates the men from the boys! At half the rpms the gearing my snowbike can pull in heavy snow is amazing!
I am so mad I had the chance of buying a 1987 CR 500 this week but the guy removed it from sale! I’ll keep hunting and will get one! I’m so old school and would get an XR 600 over any 450!
Get a kawaski KLX650R enduro spec, nice and cheap. Easiest kick starter I've ever owned and pretty quick for an old bike, people following on new KTM's can't believe the way I can out drag them on turns!
I had 3 big 2s in the early/ mid 80s, 2 CRs and an RM, and then mny yrs later I bought an 03’ CRF450. IMO the 2 strokes were all smoother power delivery and felt faster than the 450. I also felt like I had way more power down low on the 2s, which is not what one might expect. Don’t get me wrong, I loved the 450 but I loved the 2 strokes more. Oh, and I’m not comparing suspensions - 450 way superior! 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
@@RT22-pb2pp yup, sold my 85 (for a fortune) because like you, he thought it was the most powerful and fastest dirtbike there was. I wasn't about to tell him my new 2020 was not only faster, but more powerful as well. Here's a nice comparison between a cr500 and the underpowered 08 crf450. Even that slow CRF turned 6 second faster laptimes. The 19+ CRFs make about 8 more hp than the 08s (and a couple more than cr500s) www.vitalmx.com/forums/MotoRelated,20/Shootout-CRF450-VS-CR500,60661
You couldn’t be more wrong hahaha. I’m a big fan of two strokes as well but to say modern four strokes are throw away motors is just ridiculous. They’re more reliable than any two stroke ever lol. You’re mistaking the old 4 strokes like the 426 and shit, the ones that needed the hot starts and were shimming valves after every ride. I ride the piss out of my 2016 450 and haven’t had to open up the engine once. You’re kinda like a grandparent that thinks having a cell phone or a computer is witchcraft lol.
3 years of ownership on both new y 250 two stroke and yz 450f. Fuel, oil and engine rebuild costs...yz 450 cheaper to run and less injuries due to controllable power. Medical bills aren't cheap.
AMA needs to change.. It should be displacement for any bike. I guarantee you a 2022 Husqvarna 450cc 2 stroke if they made one with a modern ignition and electronic power valve and all the lastest technology would blow the doors off a 450 4 stroke!
cool vids. love the patriotism. seems like lot of people, specially younger generation, don't appreciate what they have here in USA. I know its not perfect, but its probably one of the best places to live right now. and long live the 2 stroke. lol
@@warrenkrywko3704 I was mostly referring to Kaplan and how some people seem to think America is such a bad place. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. But, yes, the Japanese did manufacture these bikes primarily for the US market and US racing as US consumers made up a significant portion of total motocross bikes sold worldwide.
Christine just needs race fuel. Then she would be in the same ball park. If not just a bit more. Lol I wish I was able to come out the the Wick 500cc Two Stroke Shootout. Great video.
I love the 2 strokes but love the 450s. My 17 450 seems to have more usable power, especially with 3 maps on the fly. But I’ll always keep both cause I still love the hard hitting 2 strokes. Just according on the mood and where and who I’m riding with. That KX is badass, but It’s Honda’s for me.
You would never feel the .7hp difference, the real question is how does each bike make that power, down lo up high?, I would love to take both those for a ride and feel the difference
I grew up on 2 strokes and I currently own a 530 KTM which is a 4 stroke and I can tell you that my CR500 would eat my KTM for lunch, at least in a straight line. Also 7 horses makes a huge difference on a 250 pound bike.
@@jamesward4893 yes 7hp would make a huge diff, but I said .7hp less than 1hp which was the diff between the 2 500's on the dyno, that you wouldn't feel I don't care how long you've been riding or how good of a rider u are
KX has more power but the honda stock was way more rid able which is why i always liked the KX . Dyno depends on the guy running it and the jetting and gearing / sprocket combo one tooth either way could jack your math
The problem with 4strokes is the fact they have more moving parts, and weigh more. That’s why 4strokes in these bikes aren’t as durable, everything is light weight to try and keep up with a 2stroke.
I dont know what dyno you guys are using but in 1996 we had 89.5 hp at the wheel with sprockets 15t front 30 t rear at 225klms per hour . I would expect yours to be completely standard.
Hate to sound like a nerd but a 2 stroke engine in theory should make double the hp of a 4 stroke of the same displacement. It's really impressive how the new 450 4 strokes make 2 stroke 500 power with 2 extra strokes for 1 power cycle.
There's a couple of reasons the 2 stroke don't manage that; The technology is decades older for a start, and they can't run a very high compression because the fuel is effectivly contaminated with oil, thus reducing effective octane and knock resistance. The 4 strokes are pretty cutting edge high compression racing motors and a lot has been learned since 2 stokes were left behind.
With the new four stroke You lose out having a motor that when it blows up and if you ride it, it will blow up - it ain’t no old school Xr or xl that can have years and years of trouble free riding. The new four stroke blow up almost in two stroke lifespans and cost insane money to rebuild. That’s why they make the power they do, while it’s amazing for a regular bike owner it really not a smart investment you’re better off with a cr125 or 250 then the four stroke equivalent unless you have more money then me. Or just buy a low hp non race based motor.
Of course the 2 strokes still.put out more hp, and loads more torque. The 4 strokes are getting there though 52 hp from a 450 ain't bad. And the 250s are catching the 250 2 strokes..But you still can't beat the sound and explosive power delivery of a 2 stroke.Imagine where they'd be now if they continued developing them. Fuel injection, electric.start, ecu controlled power valves etc.
I heard the names you mentioned about Cylinders...Who would yall recommend for a 2011 Kawi Kx100DBF Cylinder Replate or Re-Sleeve? Any help would be much Appreciated!
Mildly built 500 to the least are making only 3 to 4 more rwhp than the 21 yz 450 that made over 53 rwhp in stock form. A gytr Yamaha tuner can make the gain in stock form to surpass those 2 strokes. 500s or any 2 stroke are fun but 4 strokes are simply faster and more powerful in the modern era.
@@coltoncarpenter3790 That may be so but the fact of the matter is that we are just now starting to surpass the HP numbers that were made 20yrs ago. I've got a CRF450R and CR250R, I much rather prefer the 2 stroke anyday!
@@TheBnb89 4 strokes have been competitive amongst big bore 2stokes since the early 90s. Husaberg won gp titles against 500 2 strokes with their 501 4stokes. The early Japanese 4 strokes with mods could match the 500 2strokes power aswell in gp classes known as the open class. For the last 5 years stock 450s have put down the same or more than stock 500 2 strokes.
@@coltoncarpenter3790 oh I believe some of the 4 strokes, but not the majority, could compete with the 2 strokes. Let's face it though, Husaberg isn't that big of a name over here in the USA anyway. Either way though, the bikes of today are just now matching the stock 500 2 strokes from back in the day
@@TheBnb89 what I'm saying is 500s have been surpassed for years already. Stock 450s met the equivalent of stock 500s years ago. I've ridden 500s stock and modded aswell as 450s stock to modded. 450s have been capable since 03 but were temperamental compared to the 4 stroke of the last decade. Dont get me wrong 2 strokes are a blast but the thumpers have come a long way. Soon though itll be electric bikes pushed by ama due to the government stepping in once again like they did doing away with leaded fuels which 2 strokes love.
No shirt one riding boot throw the hat on backwards my mans living in the 90s 🤘🏻
Don’t forget he is swinging the gold chain too. 😂
No, he's living in Alabama.
One boot Wizaahhd got the Caarb Tune'd
This is the first RUclips video with the camera on the dyno display screen, Mr. Kaplan thank you.
I was riding a yz450f till I got on a ktm xc300 and fell in love, I told the wife to take pics and list the 450 for sale that day.. long live the two stroke!!!!
Ian, i did a similar thing, sold my bored and cammed crf450 as soon as i rode a mates ktm300, and went and bought one.
I do love the raw power of my cr500, but the 300 is such a nice bike, smooth tractable power right down to idle.. and an animal when you get on it and let the revs rise 🤘
@@peteuncle2935 I haven't had the opportunity to throw a leg over a 500 two stroke yet but I can only imagine... I know how crazy the power is on my 300 with a high compression head on it. RK TEC makes some awesome custom milled heads for a great price
I used to port everything. Even my lawnmowers lol and when I used to race 4 wheelers. 88 honda 250r and I used a yz piston and rod and had a oversized sleeve put in and had a spacer under cylinder that was about a half inch thick. I forget what I board it too but it was alot and I spent like 40 + hours porting and polishing. And man what a ripper that was . Porting makes a huge difference if you do it right. But love the kx but my heart is with honda. Great comparison guys.
Keeping the 2 strokes alive, love your work and go the Honda’s. Love them.
I purchased my first CR 500 in 1985 and quickly wore out a pair of boots learning to start that beast. I freshen up the stable in 87, 90 & in 92 bought a CR 250& 500 what a year that was, after that my son received the new bikes as he began racing. We’ve had many modern 4 strokes and being a performance engine builder coaxing rideable power improvements was the goal but the expense of doing it is not practical for anyone but the top pro’s. But the linear power of the 4 strokes is the ONLY reason to consider one but you better have a deep pocket and an understanding wife that’s for sure!
GOD BLESS AMERICA AND YOU!!!
Two strokes and that smell still turns my head and I’m close to 60. Keep up the good work men!
The WIZARD is my spirit animal. He calls the Eagles Home with 2 stroke pipes.
Screamin Eagles?? 😂
@@justinritter7925 Have 97 and 2 01'!!
So YES! Haha.
That thing is a beast. Love the graphics.
Beautiful kx, think i need a moment alone.
That's one bad ass bike!!! Graphics are spot on perfection. I hope I win that CR500 giveaway. Make all my dreams come true!!!!!!!
Owned multiple CR & KX500's over the years. I prefer the KX in the dunes & desert out here in the West. I liked the CR more on the track. Enjoyed both machines. They are both RIPPA'S... At 55 now, I've slowed down but still would take a 500 over a modern 450 just for the simplicity & nostalgia.
You have to get the ignition re dun around the fly wheel if you can find someone that can do it the Cr do not ned it like the kx I had a huge Down pipe on it Bigger Fuel tap hose and Carburettor ,, a Great Bang on It on Methanol 11second 1/4 mile 125 mile an Hour on a dirt bike;;;;;;;;;;KaaTooNG.......KaaTooNG.......
Oh hell yeah they pull way harder then any four stroke lol. 250s 2 strokes pull as hard as a 450 n a 500 is insane. Lol. Even the air cooled 500s where beast an pulled hard.
I own an 81 YZ 465 what a smooth motor that is!
I had cr480r and have ridden the KX 500 and cr500s, KX was an 85 I think it was air cooled the Cr 500 was an 85 and for me it was quite the rocket I was like 21 I’m 49 still love riding and still love the big 2 smokes!
Love the kx. Had a 250 in early 80s. Great bikes.
Best era
Not many have dyno numbers to back it up! 💪 You Know The Deal Kaplan✌
The new crf450 makes even more than that "record highest" 500
Some guy just deleted his comment asking "why are the 450s slower then". He must've looked it up and realized how wrong he was lol
I have a kx500 and a kx450f and I would say your assessment is spot on,the biggest difference to me is the mid range the 500 feels like the millennium falcon in 4th gear where the kx450f is much more snappy,as far as torque the 500 is way easier to lug in fact it likes that better than revving it out.
That's 2stroke power baby,long live 2strokes!!!
Hell yeah 2 stroke dirt bikes for life. Harley Davidson is the only 4 stroke I'll own. Good thing you got that rolling dyno to finally put arguments to rest.👍🇦🇺
Yz450f has a 13000rpm limit 599 2 strokes drop power after 6k. I’ve owned both. The 2014 yz450f made over 60hp
At the crank 60, rear wheel 53.6
4 stroke will never beat a 2 stroke
U should change the 500 AF on the plastics to FAST AF.
You're welcome
Love it
Lol,😆
Stock KTM525 SMR puts out 56hp. And is a carbureted engine design, built on the same basic layout as the 1983 Husky 510. I have a mildly upgraded 510, 1983, and it should dynomin the low 50s. The technology has always been there. Rotax 560s we’re putting out 55hp too in the 80s. Oh, I rebuild 4 stroke motors at home, in my garage.
Beast , great vid.
Even if the 4stroke won on the dyno i still wouldn't by one cos I have no cows to round up. 2 stroke forever , subbed
Btw, I do LOVE all dirtbikes! Fact is we lucky we have what we have with CAFE & GOVT comin dwn on even leave blowers & such. Its not true that its sooooo hard to rebuild 4-strokes. Plus hard racers change oil every 2 races 🏁 MAX an are able to prolong the modern 4-strokes quite easy. Maxima/Motul/redline/Mobil1 make incredible 4-stroke racing oils!
Love the 500s man! Love that you so close with aj, guy is a legend
Love them two strokes. Thanks for the video 🤘🏼
A fully built 2stroke 500cc only gets you 4 more hp with 50cc more engine. I like what you guys do but I will take a 2016-2018 WR 450 with kickstart kit installed because the 18 does not have it installed from factory. Have it street legal and some power mods. 450s are more rideable for the east coast. Out west is a different story because it is more wide open.
Yeah I find it funny how people still think the 500 2 stroke is so godly. Modern 4 strokes have surpassed 2 strokes nowadays but they deny it. Tune a 21 yz 450 with simple bolt on mods and itll pull away from their modded 500s aswell as turn a faster lap time being more manageable with the power.
Ultimately your still putting 20yr old tech vs modern tech. I'd love to see a 500cc 2T developed similar to the modern 300's 2 strokes. I think the amount of usable power would the biggest gain. Imagine a 500 that didn't vibrate your teeth outta your head with minimal engine braking.
That is actually 35yr old technology vs modern technology. Honda detuned the CR500R engine from 1985 on.
No matter how you look at it, you have got to give it to the two stroke engine design.
Let’s be honest (yes, you spent 10K on a new 450, it’s all good), taking everything into account, the two stroke engine is the best design for motocross racing.
@@michaelmeykens3437 no.. the 2 stroke engine is clearly NOT the best design for motor cross racing. The modern 4t 450 only makes marginally better hp than a yz 250 2t.
And within a couple pndft of torque. Yet destroys it in anything other than a drag race to the next corner.. Simply do to usable power over a much broader power curve Power that always thier Resulting in what really wins races.. TRACTION. The 2t unloads everything it has all at once. Wich might make great peak hp and torque numbers and be a blast to ride. But it's shit in comparison to usuable power. It's like high hp drag racers. You can only use what you can put down. I've owned some nasty cr 500. I've rode nastier kx 500. I've blown up my share of 450's and I currently ride a yz 250 2t. Cause I love it and will take it over a 4t every day. But plain and simple modern 4t didn't replace 2t because of peak power numbers. They replaced them because of how easy to use and broad thier power is. Wich 100% makes them the better racer.
Oh and the 4t bangs out much higher rpm. Wich allows the 450 to literally walk away from the big 500 2t on the big end. Given traction 500 all day till 5th gear redline then 450 just walks on buy
Tpi. Sucks bbr makes a 500 kit for the 250/300 ktm. So you can get that buttery smooth 2t motor in 500. And a power valve for you cr guys...It ain't cheap thoe.
Probably cost less to just have you crank balanced properly and motor blue printed. And then ported to your needs. But then your gonna need suspension
@@dormantmenace said a whole lot of nothing. You wrote 2 essays just for no one to read them lmao
@@dormantmenace btw its a brc 500 kit and it is absolutely shit. They are known to grenade very often
Awesome please don't stop making these videos
2Stroke is the one and only way to do it
Just for giving the 4strokes as best chance to perform, could you Dyno a twin pipe 2019 Honda CRF450 if you get one in the shop one day? It's supposed to be the most powerful stock 450 of all time, so I'd like to see how it compares? I've just had a 35yr old 125 tuned and dyno'd at 25hp, and picked up 30% more power, so I'm a very happy chap even though it's not even half of that KX500! I can always dream though!👍
Refreshing seeing a comment who actually knows what they're talking about on here. The exact reason I sold my 85 500 for a 20 450.
Ya they are 2nd lowest next to Suzuki bud. The ktm 450's have taken the hp wars for years now. My '03 kx125 makes 42hp at the crank. 31 at the tire.
@@romper4444 KTM was the hp leader for the longest time, until 2019. Honda has been the hp champ since then.
Basically what itll prove is modern stock 4 stroke 450s are comparable to modded 500s in power now a days. Fuel injection and capabilities of tuning digitally are a marvel, wait til variable timing cams are used like today's modern sohc and dohc high performance cars.
AWESOME GRAPHICS CHRISTIE! 😊
KK..Ship to Australia?...THIS is what we need so as to stick it to TP and the KTM crew and their multi $$ 4s at the next Finke desert run...
AJ Wag....wheres the new 500s?? 😊
Yes we ship worldwide
What I accomplished can be done in the stock cases also.
The “lean” condition is also lending a little on the power too.
I’d like to make a KX engine for you yet also.
Good comparison.
Make em an sell on Ebay. Build a name!
@@Davido50 he has a name that’s Adam Millar lol.
I love those big 500s but I expected little more power outta the 500. I'm a banshee guy and I've seen many stock banshees with good pipes making 56hp. Banshees pick up alot of hp through mods
Cause they got twin cylinder's easier to make more horsepower since bore and stroke ratio is more ideal
Twin cylinder
My 82 ascot when i had the motor built to 600 by a old flat track racer put down 52 to the rear tire. I called it the sportster stomper.
Thanks for the dyno, its really intresting what these bikes out in comparison to age, stroke, custom.
I am, and always will be a cr500 guy. Nothing ever seems to touch them. You can NOT ever compare a 2 stroke to a 4 stroke cc to cc. 2 smoke always win. Would like to see our 81 yz 456 on the dyno. DEATHTRAP!!
@@billallen4793 haha I didnt even notice. Oh well. Im from mi.
Good point
Absolutely bad ass ken!! Got to love the big bores . I have a 2006 rm 250 and a 2018 Rmz 450 that I bought new and I’d say they weren’t very far off from a power difference. I personally would love to know what each bike puts down to the wheel for hp and torque and compare the two. Both as definitely fast just don’t know who’s really on top.
Put my new '21 Yamaha YZ450F (5hrs total) w/new Yoshimura exhaust system + GTYR air filter kit on that dyno w/stinky the dyno man. My bike will match that & smoke ya @ 338.
Oh yeah? I got a crisp $100 bill that says ya won't. Text me at 860 916 9784 we will set up the showdown. I'll make you famous win or lose and your $100 will go to the museum roof fund lmao
@@KaplanCycles can I take that bet? Brand new 2021 crf450rwe. 3 pulls, take the average, mine makes more power than either 500.
2 built 500s vs stock 450cc not a fair comparison 😑
@@KaplanCycles I'd say a 21 yz 450 with the gytr tuner used properly could meet the power needed to match those 2 strokes head for head. Dirt rider achieved achieved 53 + rwhp in stock form so with simple bolts ons and tune it could easily exceed the 500s you dynoed.
@@KaplanCycles Any reason you're backing out of the bet?
I'm a Honda guy through & through but Kawasaki always made fast machines! You'll never feel 0.7 H.P. or even 1 to 2 H.P. Difference...not really! No one has that type of feel. If someone says they notice a 1.5H.P. difference the feeling is in the head! No doubt the 500' s are the baddest machines on the planet....👍🏁
Surprise surprise, a fully built race engine is more powerful than a showroom stock one. Yes there's many years between them, except that the race builds are top-shelf, recent technology too. And midrange torque is something to consider, but you can drop several teeth on a 4T and make up the difference because of how much higher it revs (torque can be directly multiplied by gearing).
I ride desert and mountains with my modified, 52whp '18 Husqy FX350. It's magic-carpet smooth and always predictable, the perfect adventure companion. It's plenty fast, especially because I can stay a gear lower and really cash in on the topend versus a 2T. If I want thrills and big power hits, I get them on the street with big turbo cars. To each their own.
2 stroke baby!
Now tweak the ecu, do a pipe and a port job, and piston work on the 450 and do a dyno comparison to keep it fair. Btw I love 2 stokes. I just sold my 18 yz450f and picked up a 2021 ktm 300 xcw tpi. I have a special place in my heart for 500s though. Rode a few in the mid/late 90s
All my scars are from my 2001 kx500. Braaaaaaaaap!!
Love the content. How did the torque numbers compare?
Serious horsepower!i do miss the ease of workin on the 2 strokes!
I have a fully built kx500 snowbike it's not the peak horsepower that is impressive about these bikes, it's the huge torque numbers from extremely low rpms that a 450 four stroke has no chance in hell to match. That's what you feel when you ride them. You need to over lay the dyno pulls and look at the torque. 2 stroke makes power every rotation of the crank four stroke makes every second add load like snow and it separates the men from the boys! At half the rpms the gearing my snowbike can pull in heavy snow is amazing!
Id love to see a 2001 to 2003 husaberg 650 on the dyno.
644 cc with the 53 cam.
Always thought husaberg was interesting, they were the company that showed 4 strokes could whoop big bore 2 strokes in the gp's.
@@coltoncarpenter3790 iv got a 2002 FX650E. Tractor torque.
I am so mad I had the chance of buying a 1987 CR 500 this week but the guy removed it from sale!
I’ll keep hunting and will get one!
I’m so old school and would get an XR 600 over any 450!
Get a kawaski KLX650R enduro spec, nice and cheap. Easiest kick starter I've ever owned and pretty quick for an old bike, people following on new KTM's can't believe the way I can out drag them on turns!
I had 3 big 2s in the early/ mid 80s, 2 CRs and an RM, and then mny yrs later I bought an 03’ CRF450. IMO the 2 strokes were all smoother power delivery and felt faster than the 450. I also felt like I had way more power down low on the 2s, which is not what one might expect. Don’t get me wrong, I loved the 450 but I loved the 2 strokes more.
Oh, and I’m not comparing suspensions - 450 way superior! 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
if your gonna judge power vs cash it sounds like the kx is a winner but its all what people want no matter what
I'd like to see how a kx 500 responds to a big sniff of nitrous oxide on the Dyno. I'm guessing double the hp before catastrophic failure!
56.14 is a record for 500s? That sucks, the new 21 crf450rwe makes 56.7 :(
Yamaha and Suzuki are underpowered compared to the 450 competition (Honda, ktm, husky, gasgas) they all make around 63 at the crank
@@RT22-pb2pp who's gonna tell this guy? Lmao
@@RT22-pb2pp stopped reading when you compared a 350 pound xr dual sport with an MXer. No wonder a lot of you guys think 500s are beasts lol
@@RT22-pb2pp yup, sold my 85 (for a fortune) because like you, he thought it was the most powerful and fastest dirtbike there was. I wasn't about to tell him my new 2020 was not only faster, but more powerful as well. Here's a nice comparison between a cr500 and the underpowered 08 crf450. Even that slow CRF turned 6 second faster laptimes. The 19+ CRFs make about 8 more hp than the 08s (and a couple more than cr500s) www.vitalmx.com/forums/MotoRelated,20/Shootout-CRF450-VS-CR500,60661
@@RT22-pb2pp you didn't read the article? Every single rider was slower on the cr500. Every single one.
some one needs to tell them to blip the throttle after letting off
The World Just Seems To Spin A Little Faster When A KX 500 AF Comes To Life
"Modern" 4-stroke MX bikes are grenade motored throwaways.
I'll take a 500cc 2-stroke any day, any time.
You couldn’t be more wrong hahaha. I’m a big fan of two strokes as well but to say modern four strokes are throw away motors is just ridiculous. They’re more reliable than any two stroke ever lol. You’re mistaking the old 4 strokes like the 426 and shit, the ones that needed the hot starts and were shimming valves after every ride. I ride the piss out of my 2016 450 and haven’t had to open up the engine once. You’re kinda like a grandparent that thinks having a cell phone or a computer is witchcraft lol.
3 years of ownership on both new y 250 two stroke and yz 450f. Fuel, oil and engine rebuild costs...yz 450 cheaper to run and less injuries due to controllable power. Medical bills aren't cheap.
@@happyman8488 classic 4t rider comment
Cant beat that sound .. long live 2 strokes ..
How about the big KTM on the dyno
I got a Morgan race engine on my restored kx125 upped to a 144cc. It rips
AMA needs to change.. It should be displacement for any bike. I guarantee you a 2022 Husqvarna 450cc 2 stroke if they made one with a modern ignition and electronic power valve and all the lastest technology would blow the doors off a 450 4 stroke!
But they don’t have doors
@@awokenfortoday7615 yep👍
the proof is on the paper i like what you guys are doing the right combination is king good stuff I will be takeing notes on this stuff i am in lol
cool vids. love the patriotism. seems like lot of people, specially younger generation, don't appreciate what they have here in USA. I know its not perfect, but its probably one of the best places to live right now. and long live the 2 stroke. lol
Japanese bikes are American patriotism?
@@warrenkrywko3704 I was mostly referring to Kaplan and how some people seem to think America is such a bad place. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. But, yes, the Japanese did manufacture these bikes primarily for the US market and US racing as US consumers made up a significant portion of total motocross bikes sold worldwide.
Hit up George for that STIC Metering block for your carburetor🚀
Would the HP change if you went up a few teeth or down a few teeth with the sprockets?? Or does it work like that
Could you please do a video about unsprung weight, such as the tire debate "Hoosier's". God Bless America!!!!
Christine just needs race fuel. Then she would be in the same ball park. If not just a bit more. Lol I wish I was able to come out the the Wick 500cc Two Stroke Shootout. Great video.
It’s cool you guys have a dyno..
The YZ450F made 53.1, same as MXA’s runs. We didn’t show the best pull
Outstanding!!!
If someone made a 500cc twin thats max 5kg more than a single cyl and has two cr250 jugs it would rip HARD
Yup just look at the moto gp older 250 2 strokes. Those things ripped and the 500 gp bikes probably put out 200hp.
Ha that’s cute the 2021 ktm 450sxf makes 63 hp STOCK, 4 stroke power what can I say.
Lmao at the crank maybe 53 @ rear wheel
put the 1983 KTM 495 on that dyno...
I love the 2 strokes but love the 450s. My 17 450 seems to have more usable power, especially with 3 maps on the fly. But I’ll always keep both cause I still love the hard hitting 2 strokes. Just according on the mood and where and who I’m riding with. That KX is badass, but It’s Honda’s for me.
You would never feel the .7hp difference, the real question is how does each bike make that power, down lo up high?, I would love to take both those for a ride and feel the difference
I grew up on 2 strokes and I currently own a 530 KTM which is a 4 stroke and I can tell you that my CR500 would eat my KTM for lunch, at least in a straight line. Also 7 horses makes a huge difference on a 250 pound bike.
@@jamesward4893 yes 7hp would make a huge diff, but I said .7hp less than 1hp which was the diff between the 2 500's on the dyno, that you wouldn't feel I don't care how long you've been riding or how good of a rider u are
perfect bike, good power !!!
You guys need to get a 2005ish KTM with the 525cc 4 stroke. I’m curious how it would stack up.
SMR is 56hp at the rear wheel. SX is 53/54.
KTM 500exc Au makes about that , on a side note KTM 250cc GP bike engine makes 110hp that is more than double a Japanese 450cc mx bikes power
Damn windows 7 for the dyno software. But man thats a nice tool to have and play with.
I'm curious what those supercross and outdoor nationals pro 450 bikes make
65 rwhp to 68 some prefer less easier to ride
KX has more power but the honda stock was way more rid able which is why i always liked the KX . Dyno depends on the guy running it and the jetting and gearing / sprocket combo one tooth either way could jack your math
Not really
The problem with 4strokes is the fact they have more moving parts, and weigh more. That’s why 4strokes in these bikes aren’t as durable, everything is light weight to try and keep up with a 2stroke.
Who built the motor on the Robbie Knievel bike? What hp is it putting down? Where does that bike fit in with fastest big bore you have ridden?
interesting to see the Maico on the Dyno
51hp at the rear wheel. Husky 500 was 49, KTM 495 was 51/52. Japanese bikes were all 46-49hp.
Sr 539 motor should smoke them all.
Out if interest.... Was the humidity and air temperatures the same between the KX & CR dyno runs?
Yes
I dont know what dyno you guys are using but in 1996 we had 89.5 hp at the wheel with sprockets 15t front 30 t rear at 225klms per hour . I would expect yours to be completely standard.
Lmfao
CR is the King
Badass!! I’d give anything to ride a again!🇺🇸
I wish carmichael woulda done a desert race or some shit back in the day, even today..
I feel like they used to run closer to 70 hp
Hate to sound like a nerd but a 2 stroke engine in theory should make double the hp of a 4 stroke of the same displacement. It's really impressive how the new 450 4 strokes make 2 stroke 500 power with 2 extra strokes for 1 power cycle.
There's a couple of reasons the 2 stroke don't manage that; The technology is decades older for a start, and they can't run a very high compression because the fuel is effectivly contaminated with oil, thus reducing effective octane and knock resistance. The 4 strokes are pretty cutting edge high compression racing motors and a lot has been learned since 2 stokes were left behind.
With the new four stroke You lose out having a motor that when it blows up and if you ride it, it will blow up - it ain’t no old school Xr or xl that can have years and years of trouble free riding. The new four stroke blow up almost in two stroke lifespans and cost insane money to rebuild. That’s why they make the power they do, while it’s amazing for a regular bike owner it really not a smart investment you’re better off with a cr125 or 250 then the four stroke equivalent unless you have more money then me. Or just buy a low hp non race based motor.
Yes 😎🆒
🧙♂️ is the man
Of course the 2 strokes still.put out more hp, and loads more torque. The 4 strokes are getting there though 52 hp from a 450 ain't bad. And the 250s are catching the 250 2 strokes..But you still can't beat the sound and explosive power delivery of a 2 stroke.Imagine where they'd be now if they continued developing them. Fuel injection, electric.start, ecu controlled power valves etc.
Thats cause the big bore 2 strokes were never developed for max hp in motorcross. Only the 125s were
I heard the names you mentioned about Cylinders...Who would yall recommend for a 2011 Kawi Kx100DBF Cylinder Replate or Re-Sleeve? Any help would be much Appreciated!
US chrome . Com
Perfect
Wth is a 4stroke🤔 never heard of it🤷 keep the 2strokes alive
This bike is making more power at the rear wheel than the new bikes are making at the crankshaft. Think about that!
Mildly built 500 to the least are making only 3 to 4 more rwhp than the 21 yz 450 that made over 53 rwhp in stock form. A gytr Yamaha tuner can make the gain in stock form to surpass those 2 strokes. 500s or any 2 stroke are fun but 4 strokes are simply faster and more powerful in the modern era.
@@coltoncarpenter3790 That may be so but the fact of the matter is that we are just now starting to surpass the HP numbers that were made 20yrs ago. I've got a CRF450R and CR250R, I much rather prefer the 2 stroke anyday!
@@TheBnb89 4 strokes have been competitive amongst big bore 2stokes since the early 90s. Husaberg won gp titles against 500 2 strokes with their 501 4stokes. The early Japanese 4 strokes with mods could match the 500 2strokes power aswell in gp classes known as the open class. For the last 5 years stock 450s have put down the same or more than stock 500 2 strokes.
@@coltoncarpenter3790 oh I believe some of the 4 strokes, but not the majority, could compete with the 2 strokes. Let's face it though, Husaberg isn't that big of a name over here in the USA anyway. Either way though, the bikes of today are just now matching the stock 500 2 strokes from back in the day
@@TheBnb89 what I'm saying is 500s have been surpassed for years already. Stock 450s met the equivalent of stock 500s years ago. I've ridden 500s stock and modded aswell as 450s stock to modded. 450s have been capable since 03 but were temperamental compared to the 4 stroke of the last decade. Dont get me wrong 2 strokes are a blast but the thumpers have come a long way. Soon though itll be electric bikes pushed by ama due to the government stepping in once again like they did doing away with leaded fuels which 2 strokes love.
What did the EGR cr500 make on dyno
would be cool to do a XR650R