During an interview in 1989, Marlon Brando was questioned about being considered the greatest actor ever. He gave a simple answer. "That's part of the sickness in America, that you have to think in terms of who wins, who loses, who's good, who's bad, who's best, who's worst. We always think in extreme terms. I don't like to think that way. Everybody has their own value in a different way."
That’s what people say when they don’t wanna tell the truth about their opinion yes, we can all play basketball good but we all know who would be considered the best. Some can say LeBron James, but that wouldn’t be true. He was that padding but not going to win same goals for everyone else the reason they said might not because he has the most championship the most titles, it’s because he delivers the most when I’m playing. No one else can hold that, that’s the point he’s giving on Ron
@dixondaqua Your example is bad. Basketball games on that level are situational. One bad moment (an injury, a few wrong calls) can ruin everything. If CP3 hadn't been injured during the 2018 finals, then there is a high chance the GSW dynasty wouldn't exist. Stop acting like a couch expert and listen to people who have been doing this. The whole GOAT nonsense exists only to create engagement and money for the media.
his entrance became legendary, he's had as many great moments on the mic as many of the other greats while showing a more diverse range. so many great in ring stories and payoffs. the feuds they're in made me care about at least 10 other wrestlers who i didn't really care about before and i don't think the rub has rubbed off. they turned heyman out all ppl into a baby face and after all this shit.. after everyone said what else can they do or that they were running out of shit to do with the bloodline.. now they're gonna eventually reunite the og bloodline as fking baby faces and everyone is gonna eat that up. his whole turnaround from being cringy asf is legendary. i think Roman deserves his goat status.
Bingo. What Roman has accomplished is unlike any other top guy before him. If people would throw their biases away they'd realize that his work is in a league of its own, and as far as I'm concerned, that makes him the GOAT.
Frfr…. Sami before Roman: getting jobbed out to the Jackass crew Sami after Roman: getting booked seriously and knocked off Gunther @ Mania Sometimes I couldn’t tell the USOS apart before The Bloodline. Now easier to tell Jimmy from Jey. That along w/ Jey being elevated as a singles competitor.
You a 90’s kid that’s really why people can say, Bret but they have no results to prove it with same goes for undertaker. Undertaker was just a guy on the roster with a good dammit before the whole wrestlemania streak The Rock never made it to the main guy. He can’t be overall cold. I won’t take anything away from arguing that Stone Cold Steve Austin or John Cena but if we built a Mount Rushmore, it would have to be hogan, hbk, cena, Roman
@sunder77 I think Hogan has to be on there. Whether people like him or not he is arguably the most important wrestler in making wrestling a mainstream show thar it is today
I wouldn’t remove John Cena but I would add Ric Flair but I wouldn’t add Ric Flair for WWE maybe for NWA or WCW because that’s the point we can’t discredit people because we don’t like them. John Cena was the man for a point in time it’s different if we’re just talking about wrestling ability.
Hes good but idk if hes the goat. The reasoning he used is like saying the band w the most album sales is the best band. Like on paper, sure but idk if you can attribute that to roman
you definitely can. wwe has been in upward spiral since 2021. that was when Vince was still booking and Cody wasnot even a thought. The only catalyst in wwe shows was Roman Reigns
Definitely Top 10 all time in the wrestling business but not #1. Maybe just Maybe he could be in the top 3 by the end of his career, assuming his babyface run becomes astronomically phenomal (very likely), nonetheless he's already top 10 right now in my eyes. He made wrestling cool and watchable again as the top guy, he saved wwe when wwe needed saving the most, (similar to austin in the late 90's) he's getting huge pops like the rock would get in his prime. And he's simply a cooler good guy than john cena ever was. Not to mention him elevating every member of the bloodline, making KO and Drew look good and better than ever, and drawing more than anyone else has since the cena era. He's the sole reason to why smackdown was cooking raw for years until his departure and not suprisingly caused smackdown to spiral downwards in his absence.
Do an unbiased tier ranking video comprised of wrestlers who are in that goat talk discussion. Could base the tier ranking off of drawing power, in ring ability, promo and longevity, just a couple options off the top
You sound like me when i stopped watching wrestling because Cena was rapping 😂😂😂 ...Cm Punk got me back, love Roman and now i grew to love Cena 😂 Came back full circle
My first wrestling show was Wrestlemania 3. For decades my favorite wrestling moment was Brutus “the Barber” Beefcake’s face turn from that night. He is still the GOAT as far as I am concerned.
Roman is a great guy and I'm glad to see him getting praise, but this type of thing is the type of thing that can turn diehards back to Roman haters, feeling like he is being shoved down their throats again. Him being a babyface is tenuous at best, and talk of him driving stock prices will only make more people turn on him.... again. Sorry John, I think you've been gone too long to really understand what the fans want.
speak for yourself i always believe if a person has the numbers they deserve their praise it can’t be called getting pushed down our throats anymore it’s not 2015 he isn’t a new guy he ultimately saved the company whether you like it or not they had no clue where to go so yeah he deserves the praise but him being the goat or not is obviously opinionated
'20-'23 Reigns has been such a needle-mover with the Bloodline that some people have based potential GOAT cases for him on that stretch alone (not even thinking about the acinine '15-'19 stretch)
@@khesipresents1885Not if the business is in the toilet. I watched attitude era then stopped watching wrestling in 2004. Bloodline story got me back in to wrestling in 2023.
Roman had to return and be the representative of the company when: The IWC were vocal in preferring AEW to WWE On top of being an interesting draw during a time when fans/crowds were either limited or not physically allowed in the arena The guy along w/ damn near everyone involved with The OG Bloodline….slowly changed that Cena was asked on the topic and fella just gave his opinion….as well as pointed out a fun fact about Roman during that awesome heel run On that, I agree with Cena.
I just don’t understand why Roman is in the GOAT conversation. The last ~4 years of title reign doesn’t matter to me because that’s just booking. His debut doesn’t matter to me because, again, that’s just booking. Others are better on the mic, others are better in the ring, and others have done more to bring wrestling to a new audience. Roman is a B+ player with a lot of fiends behind the curtains.
Roman reigns ran off a fairly large portion of the fanbase . When he was the guy nobody watched. Things started to pick up when Cody came back . This is NOT because of roman . He was already the guy for a while in 2022 and everything sucked , the attendance , the viewership, the product as a whole . The times where he was the guy were the times AEW was pulling a million viewers on a regular ... it took him 8 years to be the man everyone wanted him to be .. that's a horrible record. In addition to that , he's not a top 5 performer in the ring , he's most definetely NOT(oh boy is he boring😩) top 5 in promo , hasn't been top 5 bigger draw ... I don't understand how he could be the goat ? The best guy of the worst era ever could never lace the boots of the other ones . Triple H and his team can claim the credit of this turn around . Not Roman . Not in a million years .
My brother has a friend whose favorite wrestler of all time is absolutely Jeff Hardy. The problem for the early 90s wrestlers is the WWF had no depth at the time. It was really a self-inflicted problem. When Vince raided everyone's talent in the 80s and killed the territories, there wasn't anywhere for new guys to develop. And as far as Cena, I hypothesize the reason he was divisive at the time was Attitude Era fans who had kids younger definitely wouldn't want to take their kids to an Attitude Era show. Those who didn't have kids didn't want a product directed at the new generation of fans. So that's why you have chants of "Let's go Cena!" and "Cena sucks!" at the same time.
This is a fantastic take Simon, more of this content please. Stone cold has Vince McMahon. That rivalry made Stone Cold character who he was. WWF has wCw so yeah AEW was important
2020 and after is. Anything before was mediocre. If (and a big If) Roman Reigns can give us another few years of quality character development (and not the same old shit we had before 2020) it might be true.
I am tremendously appreciative that Mass Effect 3 got an extended ending. The original ending was not only stupid, but it went against the entire theme of the saga AND it was false advertising by the developers. 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦
The name I would throw into the hat for consideration is the man who had the same rookie year as Cena, that guy you said had great longevity, and just signed a 5-year contract. The other wrestlers crowd around the tv screens to watch his matches because they say he's the perfect wrestler and has been for over 75% of his career. "If you wanted to build a professional wrestler from the ground up, it would be Randy Orton".
People are throwing the term GOAT around too much and it's destroying the meaning of it... It seems to me that John has either been asked to say it, or he's doing his usual pandering to the audience to stay likeable and relevant...
If he’s Cena’s goat, that’s fine. He’s not mine. It’s not just what the company makes it what you bring to the business overall - draw, fans, in ring work, character, promos, etc. Roman doesn’t hit every box. Hell cena doesn’t hit every box in my opinion.
@@jrallen175 correct. There is a reason they announce his appearances, before in every show, the only one because people care. They want to see him and they become so mad if he doesnt show. That is a one in a million guy
What I love about wrestling is sure you can have best merch sellers but the GOAT is really subjective to you! Austin and Goldberg were mine when I was a kid flicking between RAW and Nitro but now there are so many that it would be hard for me to pick a personal mount rushmore. For example Asuka was the one who got my attention again after I took a long heiatus from watching wrestling after her amazing NXT win streak but now I love watching both WWE and AEW and have my favourites in each promotion.
You know, I've been watching wrestling, on and off, since 1986, and honestly I think this modern era is my favorite. The Attitude Era had some great aspects and great characters, but it was a bit too sexist for me even at the time. I more or less stopped watching during the Ruthless Agression and PG era, didn't really come back to the fold until I heard Vince left the first time. But now I think it's just a very consistent product, with some great talent that are believable, and the angles may be a bit silly at times, but nothing as bad as what Vince would put out, like May Young giving birth to a hand.
Name one of those 30 years that undertaker was on top because I don’t see any years where he was actually on top before the wrestlemania Street he was just a guy with a good game that got him bought even during the wrestlemania Street if you didn’t have HBK or Brock it was just a wrestlemania match. I love the undertaker, but I’m tired of people fun act like he was ever the top star 🌟 never not one name a error and I’ll name the top guy. I’ll name the top five guy and none of them will be. I think maybe once in the attitude era ministry days.
@@dixondaquaundertakers role was never to be the top guy he always elevated people when he could he was the locker room leader for decades and put on great matches for years. if we wanna talk character he literally is a phenom he has the most aura in my opinion and is 100% the greatest of all time for me and most iconic
@@jervonte44-fx6wjyou read or listen to the stories from back there, bro their locker room was crazy so was he really a locker room leader? Also I’m not talking about behind-the-scenes. I’m talking about matches as a hole. I’m talking about being on top if we’re talking about that as a character, yes entering performance I wouldn’t put him over like that.
He is the GOAT for me, basically what Cena was for others. I was 12 when he debuted and i instantly thought to myself ,,omg he is so awesome ", even though he didn't speak much in the early days of the shield but he had that IT factor. I agree that until the heel turn the character was not good enough for that top spot but i was still cheering for him. Plus you don't need to be 5 ⭐ in the ring to be considered one of the goat's. You have guys like Cena and Steve who are ok in the ring, but god damn they can entertain the audience when they get that mic
Simon is totally on point here the GOAT is basically whoever YOU think it is, theres no real right or wrong answer because there's potentially 100's who could be considered "the best" after all this is a scripted sport. Its not like other sports were it is more definitive on the actual best to ever play
First time I ever left the channel on wrestling was the Piper’s Pit where Andre ripped Hogan’s necklace off. Biggest man I’d ever seen, WTF was this? I got hooked fast. Andre was nowhere close to what he used to be but was still amazing. Bret Hart, Hogan, Sting, Road Warriors, Savage, Jake the Snake. So many greats from that era (sad Hogan is a shitbag) but loving sharing wrestling w my kids now. Roman and the Bloodline made his matches boring as fuck and the extreme length of his entrance,,yeah screw all that. The Bloodline has been overused and they keep refreshing more of it and it’s such a re-tread. The only member of the new Bloodline who actually impresses is Jacob.
I honestly believe the mount Rushmere is Hulk Hogan, Gorgeous George, George Hackensmidt & Jim Londos, based most importantly on impact all were record breaking draws which is the most important thing. Londos I believe still holds records in wrestling but was the first true baby face of wrestling, a good looking guy going up against ugly heels that is a huge formula that has worked. George Hackensmidt was a global superstar and draw, maybe the first, he was more of a wrestler but everyone has followed that formula, he's arguably the first superstar of wrestling. Gorgeous George has tv rating numbers no one else has though was the advent but the man basically made sports entertainment and gimmicks in progressing plus he's the first true Heel. Hogan is no.1 as wrestling has never left world wide tv since the 80s boom, everyone uses the Hogan formula and he kickstarted not one boom but two, no one will ever do that again. He is the greatest of all time. 1. Hulk Hogan 2. Gorgeous George 3. George Hackensmidt 4. Jim Londos 5. Buddy Rogers (1st guy with the promo) 6. The Rock (apart of record segments + ppv buy rates in multiple eras, plus a different level of mainstream cross over to anyone else, the biggest name to come out of prowrestling) 7. Frank Gotch (George hackesmidt but in america) 8. Stone Cold Steve Austin (highest everything in a short period) 9. Roman Reigns (catalyst to the current boom) 10. Lou Thesz (at one point 5tt biggest celeb in usa, the kick starter to tye good main stream image guy which is key in wwe now; Hogan, Rock, Goldberg, Cena, Roman & Cody have all followed suite) 11. Bruno Sammartino 12. John Cena 13. Randy Savage 14. Brock Lesnar 15. Andre The Giant 16. Goldberg 17. Dusty Rhodes 18. Ric Flair 19. Triple H 20. CM Punk Cody rhodes could end up in the top 10 or even 5 depending how his run continues but he is killing it at the moment
Even just asking this question sincerely is a crime against professional wrestling. But with Dragon potentially retiring on Sunday? You gotta hang up the boots man, wrestling doesn't deserve this abuse
I dont think Roman alone os the sole reason for the stock going sky high. John should have such a bigger ego but doesn't. He was absolutely a bigger star than Roman Reigns but the rest of the product was dog 💩
Roman debut in 2012 when solo in 2014 to 2019 he build resume but he didnt get over until the ofc in 2019 to 2024, he just became a fan babyface this yr ,5 yrs of boos and 4 yrs of cheers and 1 mi utes as face, to me seth rollins is goat of this era he been over since jump
In Ring work Daniel Bryan. And let’s be real amazing heel work and as a face we all know the yes movement at it’s peak is unlike anything we have seen. So yah had that been able to keep going out the break do to injury. So yah GOAT
If the only option are goat or overrated then yes Roman is overrated I can think of 30 names that I could put beyond Roman like Undertaker, Austin, Rock, Flair, Micheals, Bret Hart and many more
I believe it’s recency appraisal for the business. Roman is top dawg of the WWE currently. To have one of the G.O.A.T.s in Cena say that about Roman makes sense given the current run of Roman. While I don’t agree with Cena, I get it!
i think Cena and Austin to me are the goats but when roman is retired more people will definitely come around to calling roman the goat but i don't think id say that yet still. To me Cena and Austin are just so tough to beat for that claim, But at the end of the day wrestling isn't the NBA or NFL or something, in those sports there is a clear few people you could argue who the goat is and if you say anything else you are being silly. In wrestling its not that easy, its not about who's the most accomplished because it isn't a real competition to see who's the best fighter, its about who did the most for the business and who meant the most to you when you were the most invested so there is probably like 50 wrestlers that to a certain person has a real argument as the goat so Cena calling roman the goat i totally understand his argument for such and if that's what he believes the goat is then i cant say he's wrong for it. its like comic chatacters. you can argue the goat is superman, wolverine , batman, spiderman, the hulk , thanos, the joker and more and none of those would really be wrong, its just about who you gravitate towards the most.
@@khesipresents1885 The Undertaker is the most consistently creative character in WWE history his ability to adapt his character to the times is incomparable he was always one of the biggest matches at WM and he was a top-tier performer that's why he's my GOAT it not just about headlining and selling but Roman is close imo
@@ONLYALEXISOMAR lol you're just biased and not using logic .. undertaker is not above Cena,Austin,Hogan,rock..no matter how much you want that to be the case
@khesipresents1885 What logic are u talking about? There is no logic behind your, mine or his personal feelings. This is not an objective question, its a question of preference. The question is not "Who is the most commerically viable". And there is absolutely no reason to not prefer creative output over selling seats, just as much as the other way around, no matter how hard you want to deny it. Ps: Im not even agreeing with him, but yall fanboys need to fanboys and try to bite everything that dissents.
Roman Reigns is a first class Hall of Fame choice, he carried the company on his back for half a decade, helped orchestrate one of the greatest storylines in wresting history, and now returned as a super mega Babyface, matching, if not succeeding that of Cody Rhodes. Roman is the GOAT no question about it
All y'all hating on Roman because what John said can shut up, obviously John has been in the business long enough to know that man ain't just talking, Roman been doing numbers, much more than most of the these guys.
Bro it’s more than that listen to the stories the fans have about John yeah no bets are good but it’s about the impact you have with the fans and Roman just started having one when John had always gone out of his way for the fans
@@MichaelAnderson-yu8mr Roman has always had an impact with the fans, when they were booing him after he left the shield, cheering when he was apart of the shield, all of those are impacts, whether he was booed or cheered.
@@MichaelAnderson-yu8mr Secondly, Roman does just as much as John does outside of the business why do you think John accepted him as the G.O.A.T. because he knew deep down he was gonna make an impact when he came in the business.
@@eliousley220 John make a wish contributions alone far outweighs all of Romans fan interactions outside of the ring… never heard a story of Roman having a fan call his friend who couldn’t make a meet and greet just to say hi and take 10 mins of his time to have a conversation with a person who couldn’t make it to meet him…. I get you love Roman now but you can’t come close to saying he’s done just as much as John had for the fans
@@MichaelAnderson-yu8mr Bro yes he has, have you even looked Roman's make a wish foundation, he's granted as many wishes as John Cena, do your research bro.
Cena compliments Roman but still shows bitterness by making sarcastic remarks like Roman came back when there was no crowd etc one would think it would be harder to wrestle without an audience by Cena's view Roman had a easy up.
The goat argument will always be such a waste of time, the world will never agree who is best, its not like football or basketball or boxing, where you could easily point the best out of the best, but wrestling is too wide of a canvas for having one goat
I just can’t get on board with John Cena being the G.O.A.T. - it’s a Malibu’s Wanted/8 Mile gimmick and another example of Vince McMahon appropriating black culture (spinning championship belt - 50 cent chain influence). I’ll take Undertaker, Flair, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, or The Rock. Honorable mention would be the great D’Lo Brown! 😂🙏🏽
the reason why Roman Reigns never get the respect, at least mine, is that he has a poor mic and in-ring skills. top it up with lame movesets although somehow, people are buying it... this are also the reason why WWE surrounds him with people (the bloodline) who will "help" him to become interesting. so to say his is "The GOAT"? no... never.
Austin is hands down he was the main reason why raw won the war against nitro if the wwe didn’t win that war there would be no Roman now Austin McMahon was the main reason
Roman Reigns is overrated. Almost every match he was in as the WWE Undisputed Universal Champion, he needed help from his cousins to retain the titles. I would even say oh Roman's match is on and he's gonna win again.
During an interview in 1989, Marlon Brando was questioned about being considered the greatest actor ever. He gave a simple answer. "That's part of the sickness in America, that you have to think in terms of who wins, who loses, who's good, who's bad, who's best, who's worst. We always think in extreme terms. I don't like to think that way. Everybody has their own value in a different way."
That’s what people say when they don’t wanna tell the truth about their opinion yes, we can all play basketball good but we all know who would be considered the best. Some can say LeBron James, but that wouldn’t be true. He was that padding but not going to win same goals for everyone else the reason they said might not because he has the most championship the most titles, it’s because he delivers the most when I’m playing. No one else can hold that, that’s the point he’s giving on Ron
@dixondaqua Your example is bad. Basketball games on that level are situational. One bad moment (an injury, a few wrong calls) can ruin everything. If CP3 hadn't been injured during the 2018 finals, then there is a high chance the GSW dynasty wouldn't exist. Stop acting like a couch expert and listen to people who have been doing this. The whole GOAT nonsense exists only to create engagement and money for the media.
I don’t think so I think Roman’s is kinda the goat most guys before him live to bury other talent he doesn’t exist in his run then other numbers talk
his entrance became legendary, he's had as many great moments on the mic as many of the other greats while showing a more diverse range. so many great in ring stories and payoffs. the feuds they're in made me care about at least 10 other wrestlers who i didn't really care about before and i don't think the rub has rubbed off. they turned heyman out all ppl into a baby face and after all this shit.. after everyone said what else can they do or that they were running out of shit to do with the bloodline.. now they're gonna eventually reunite the og bloodline as fking baby faces and everyone is gonna eat that up. his whole turnaround from being cringy asf is legendary. i think Roman deserves his goat status.
Spoken like a true fan, he does deserve.
Bingo. What Roman has accomplished is unlike any other top guy before him. If people would throw their biases away they'd realize that his work is in a league of its own, and as far as I'm concerned, that makes him the GOAT.
@@Moe_611 Exactly that's the whole point.
Roman is a big reason why so many superstars feel like main eventers / a needle movers
Frfr….
Sami before Roman: getting jobbed out to the Jackass crew
Sami after Roman: getting booked seriously and knocked off Gunther @ Mania
Sometimes I couldn’t tell the USOS apart before The Bloodline. Now easier to tell Jimmy from Jey. That along w/ Jey being elevated as a singles competitor.
But He buried finn demon character
@@Upen16sgrand scheme of everything it doesn’t matter
He's a rotten bleeding beef
John is a company guy so he's gonna say that
Yeah but he's also a GENUINE guy, I don't think he'd say that if he didn't mean it.
Seth should fade him lol
@ggguNeck Cena is a complete phony you have to be a complete idiot to think John isn't a cooperate tool.
BLESS THE REUPLOAD!!
For me is not just 1, is a few goats: Triple H, Stone Cold, The Rock, Undertaker and Kane
My Mt Rushmore: The Rock, SCSA, John Cena, Undertaker.
You a 90’s kid that’s really why people can say, Bret but they have no results to prove it with same goes for undertaker. Undertaker was just a guy on the roster with a good dammit before the whole wrestlemania streak The Rock never made it to the main guy. He can’t be overall cold. I won’t take anything away from arguing that Stone Cold Steve Austin or John Cena but if we built a Mount Rushmore, it would have to be hogan, hbk, cena, Roman
@sunder77 I think Hogan has to be on there. Whether people like him or not he is arguably the most important wrestler in making wrestling a mainstream show thar it is today
Replace Cena with Flair and I Can agréé with you
I wouldn’t remove John Cena but I would add Ric Flair but I wouldn’t add Ric Flair for WWE maybe for NWA or WCW because that’s the point we can’t discredit people because we don’t like them. John Cena was the man for a point in time it’s different if we’re just talking about wrestling ability.
Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin and the Undertaker will always be on my Mount Rushmore of wrestling.
Tribal chief story is great and thats it for Roman.
Hes good but idk if hes the goat. The reasoning he used is like saying the band w the most album sales is the best band. Like on paper, sure but idk if you can attribute that to roman
you definitely can. wwe has been in upward spiral since 2021. that was when Vince was still booking and Cody wasnot even a thought. The only catalyst in wwe shows was Roman Reigns
I mean, in Roman Reigns career, the lowest attended Wrestlemania in history was the one he wasn't on
And even the "sold most seats" is arguable, as Austin still hangs around, doesnt he.
Definitely Top 10 all time in the wrestling business but not #1. Maybe just Maybe he could be in the top 3 by the end of his career, assuming his babyface run becomes astronomically phenomal (very likely), nonetheless he's already top 10 right now in my eyes. He made wrestling cool and watchable again as the top guy, he saved wwe when wwe needed saving the most, (similar to austin in the late 90's) he's getting huge pops like the rock would get in his prime. And he's simply a cooler good guy than john cena ever was. Not to mention him elevating every member of the bloodline, making KO and Drew look good and better than ever, and drawing more than anyone else has since the cena era. He's the sole reason to why smackdown was cooking raw for years until his departure and not suprisingly caused smackdown to spiral downwards in his absence.
Do an unbiased tier ranking video comprised of wrestlers who are in that goat talk discussion. Could base the tier ranking off of drawing power, in ring ability, promo and longevity, just a couple options off the top
You sound like me when i stopped watching wrestling because Cena was rapping 😂😂😂 ...Cm Punk got me back, love Roman and now i grew to love Cena 😂
Came back full circle
My first wrestling show was Wrestlemania 3. For decades my favorite wrestling moment was Brutus “the Barber” Beefcake’s face turn from that night. He is still the GOAT as far as I am concerned.
ROCK, AUSTIN, HOGAN, TAKER, but Jericho has to be a serious contender these days
Roman is a great guy and I'm glad to see him getting praise, but this type of thing is the type of thing that can turn diehards back to Roman haters, feeling like he is being shoved down their throats again. Him being a babyface is tenuous at best, and talk of him driving stock prices will only make more people turn on him.... again. Sorry John, I think you've been gone too long to really understand what the fans want.
Facts and the TKO stock price has the UFC included, so Cena comparing WWE's solo price back in the days to now is retarded
speak for yourself i always believe if a person has the numbers they deserve their praise it can’t be called getting pushed down our throats anymore it’s not 2015 he isn’t a new guy he ultimately saved the company whether you like it or not they had no clue where to go so yeah he deserves the praise but him being the goat or not is obviously opinionated
'20-'23 Reigns has been such a needle-mover with the Bloodline that some people have based potential GOAT cases for him on that stretch alone (not even thinking about the acinine '15-'19 stretch)
But to me that's flawed ....it means any guy you make champion for a long time ,will be a goat?
@@khesipresents1885Not if the business is in the toilet. I watched attitude era then stopped watching wrestling in 2004.
Bloodline story got me back in to wrestling in 2023.
Shawn Micheals Bret Hart The Undertaker Randy Savage is my Mount Rushmore
Roman had to return and be the representative of the company when:
The IWC were vocal in preferring AEW to WWE
On top of being an interesting draw during a time when fans/crowds were either limited or not physically allowed in the arena
The guy along w/ damn near everyone involved with The OG Bloodline….slowly changed that
Cena was asked on the topic and fella just gave his opinion….as well as pointed out a fun fact about Roman during that awesome heel run
On that, I agree with Cena.
I just don’t understand why Roman is in the GOAT conversation. The last ~4 years of title reign doesn’t matter to me because that’s just booking. His debut doesn’t matter to me because, again, that’s just booking.
Others are better on the mic, others are better in the ring, and others have done more to bring wrestling to a new audience.
Roman is a B+ player with a lot of fiends behind the curtains.
Corporate talk from Heyman, Cena and a few Others and thats it
A few years ago they stated the same thing for Brock
Roman reigns ran off a fairly large portion of the fanbase . When he was the guy nobody watched. Things started to pick up when Cody came back . This is NOT because of roman . He was already the guy for a while in 2022 and everything sucked , the attendance , the viewership, the product as a whole . The times where he was the guy were the times AEW was pulling a million viewers on a regular ... it took him 8 years to be the man everyone wanted him to be .. that's a horrible record.
In addition to that , he's not a top 5 performer in the ring , he's most definetely NOT(oh boy is he boring😩) top 5 in promo , hasn't been top 5 bigger draw ... I don't understand how he could be the goat ? The best guy of the worst era ever could never lace the boots of the other ones .
Triple H and his team can claim the credit of this turn around . Not Roman . Not in a million years .
I believe this next baby face run will be the determination of that
You fixed it! 🎉🎉🎉
My brother has a friend whose favorite wrestler of all time is absolutely Jeff Hardy.
The problem for the early 90s wrestlers is the WWF had no depth at the time. It was really a self-inflicted problem. When Vince raided everyone's talent in the 80s and killed the territories, there wasn't anywhere for new guys to develop. And as far as Cena, I hypothesize the reason he was divisive at the time was Attitude Era fans who had kids younger definitely wouldn't want to take their kids to an Attitude Era show. Those who didn't have kids didn't want a product directed at the new generation of fans. So that's why you have chants of "Let's go Cena!" and "Cena sucks!" at the same time.
This is a fantastic take Simon, more of this content please.
Stone cold has Vince McMahon. That rivalry made Stone Cold character who he was. WWF has wCw so yeah AEW was important
2020 and after is.
Anything before was mediocre.
If (and a big If) Roman Reigns can give us another few years of quality character development (and not the same old shit we had before 2020) it might be true.
I am tremendously appreciative that Mass Effect 3 got an extended ending.
The original ending was not only stupid, but it went against the entire theme of the saga AND it was false advertising by the developers.
🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦
The name I would throw into the hat for consideration is the man who had the same rookie year as Cena, that guy you said had great longevity, and just signed a 5-year contract. The other wrestlers crowd around the tv screens to watch his matches because they say he's the perfect wrestler and has been for over 75% of his career. "If you wanted to build a professional wrestler from the ground up, it would be Randy Orton".
Any video with a segment on Repo Man is top notch
Bruno is a lot like Wilt Chamberlain, crazy numbers historically but no one is calling him the GOAT now
4:19 excellently done 😂
People are throwing the term GOAT around too much and it's destroying the meaning of it... It seems to me that John has either been asked to say it, or he's doing his usual pandering to the audience to stay likeable and relevant...
If he’s Cena’s goat, that’s fine. He’s not mine. It’s not just what the company makes it what you bring to the business overall - draw, fans, in ring work, character, promos, etc. Roman doesn’t hit every box. Hell cena doesn’t hit every box in my opinion.
I'm just saying, in Roman's active career, the lowest attended Wrestlemania ever was the one he missed
@@jrallen175 correct. There is a reason they announce his appearances, before in every show, the only one because people care. They want to see him and they become so mad if he doesnt show. That is a one in a million guy
I like Randy Orton the best, i know nobody says he’s the greatest but he’s the one guy i’ve always liked consistently so he’s my goat
I love wrestling in all capacity. Been watching since 97 and i know, Any era has a "goat" but they're all amazing whichever way you look at it.
What I love about wrestling is sure you can have best merch sellers but the GOAT is really subjective to you! Austin and Goldberg were mine when I was a kid flicking between RAW and Nitro but now there are so many that it would be hard for me to pick a personal mount rushmore. For example Asuka was the one who got my attention again after I took a long heiatus from watching wrestling after her amazing NXT win streak but now I love watching both WWE and AEW and have my favourites in each promotion.
I was and still am a Matt Hardy guy too Simon. V1
You know, I've been watching wrestling, on and off, since 1986, and honestly I think this modern era is my favorite. The Attitude Era had some great aspects and great characters, but it was a bit too sexist for me even at the time. I more or less stopped watching during the Ruthless Agression and PG era, didn't really come back to the fold until I heard Vince left the first time. But now I think it's just a very consistent product, with some great talent that are believable, and the angles may be a bit silly at times, but nothing as bad as what Vince would put out, like May Young giving birth to a hand.
Undertaker is the GOAT, i cant see anyone else that have 30+ career on top !
His entrance and character alone got em in the top 5… then his in ring work post Mania 20 return is just unreal 😂😂😂😂🐐
Exactly bro
Name one of those 30 years that undertaker was on top because I don’t see any years where he was actually on top before the wrestlemania Street he was just a guy with a good game that got him bought even during the wrestlemania Street if you didn’t have HBK or Brock it was just a wrestlemania match. I love the undertaker, but I’m tired of people fun act like he was ever the top star 🌟 never not one name a error and I’ll name the top guy. I’ll name the top five guy and none of them will be. I think maybe once in the attitude era ministry days.
@@dixondaquaundertakers role was never to be the top guy he always elevated people when he could he was the locker room leader for decades and put on great matches for years. if we wanna talk character he literally is a phenom he has the most aura in my opinion and is 100% the greatest of all time for me and most iconic
@@jervonte44-fx6wjyou read or listen to the stories from back there, bro their locker room was crazy so was he really a locker room leader? Also I’m not talking about behind-the-scenes. I’m talking about matches as a hole. I’m talking about being on top if we’re talking about that as a character, yes entering performance I wouldn’t put him over like that.
Roman and the bloodline brought me back to wresting after not watching after 20 years
Weird how Randy Orton isn't in many of these conversations.
He should be
I can see why Cena would say that, but its a no for me. I'm just too old and stuck in my ways, Austin will always be my goat.
John put that pipe down.
Peacemaker off the rocks 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
He is the GOAT for me, basically what Cena was for others. I was 12 when he debuted and i instantly thought to myself ,,omg he is so awesome ", even though he didn't speak much in the early days of the shield but he had that IT factor. I agree that until the heel turn the character was not good enough for that top spot but i was still cheering for him. Plus you don't need to be 5 ⭐ in the ring to be considered one of the goat's. You have guys like Cena and Steve who are ok in the ring, but god damn they can entertain the audience when they get that mic
Roman is lazy and sucked on promos and moves
When its about global impact?
#1 Hulk Hogan
#2 Steve Austin
#3 Roman Reigns
#4 Cena or Undertaker. This is a tough one
Simon is totally on point here the GOAT is basically whoever YOU think it is, theres no real right or wrong answer because there's potentially 100's who could be considered "the best" after all this is a scripted sport. Its not like other sports were it is more definitive on the actual best to ever play
Let's not forget how Bret Hart had some of the greatest iron man matches as well
Randy Orton expressed a very similar opinion about hiw the GOAT can be different for everyone on What do you want to talk about with Cody Rhodes.
We acknowledge Roman ☝🏾 great video Simon
First time I ever left the channel on wrestling was the Piper’s Pit where Andre ripped Hogan’s necklace off. Biggest man I’d ever seen, WTF was this? I got hooked fast. Andre was nowhere close to what he used to be but was still amazing. Bret Hart, Hogan, Sting, Road Warriors, Savage, Jake the Snake. So many greats from that era (sad Hogan is a shitbag) but loving sharing wrestling w my kids now.
Roman and the Bloodline made his matches boring as fuck and the extreme length of his entrance,,yeah screw all that. The Bloodline has been overused and they keep refreshing more of it and it’s such a re-tread. The only member of the new Bloodline who actually impresses is Jacob.
Disregarding the goat conversation, I think the stock going up has a lot to due with Vince no longer being in charge
Listen. I grew up on I believed Bret Hart. I believed him. I thought he was the realest wrestler ever. He was my Grappling Canadian Mike Tyson.
You can't do a mount Rushmore without researching in the past, then it's an invalid mount Rushmore, it's then just based on people you've seen
I honestly believe the mount Rushmere is Hulk Hogan, Gorgeous George, George Hackensmidt & Jim Londos, based most importantly on impact all were record breaking draws which is the most important thing.
Londos I believe still holds records in wrestling but was the first true baby face of wrestling, a good looking guy going up against ugly heels that is a huge formula that has worked.
George Hackensmidt was a global superstar and draw, maybe the first, he was more of a wrestler but everyone has followed that formula, he's arguably the first superstar of wrestling.
Gorgeous George has tv rating numbers no one else has though was the advent but the man basically made sports entertainment and gimmicks in progressing plus he's the first true Heel.
Hogan is no.1 as wrestling has never left world wide tv since the 80s boom, everyone uses the Hogan formula and he kickstarted not one boom but two, no one will ever do that again. He is the greatest of all time.
1. Hulk Hogan
2. Gorgeous George
3. George Hackensmidt
4. Jim Londos
5. Buddy Rogers (1st guy with the promo)
6. The Rock (apart of record segments + ppv buy rates in multiple eras, plus a different level of mainstream cross over to anyone else, the biggest name to come out of prowrestling)
7. Frank Gotch (George hackesmidt but in america)
8. Stone Cold Steve Austin (highest everything in a short period)
9. Roman Reigns (catalyst to the current boom)
10. Lou Thesz (at one point 5tt biggest celeb in usa, the kick starter to tye good main stream image guy which is key in wwe now; Hogan, Rock, Goldberg, Cena, Roman & Cody have all followed suite)
11. Bruno Sammartino
12. John Cena
13. Randy Savage
14. Brock Lesnar
15. Andre The Giant
16. Goldberg
17. Dusty Rhodes
18. Ric Flair
19. Triple H
20. CM Punk
Cody rhodes could end up in the top 10 or even 5 depending how his run continues but he is killing it at the moment
Half of the People you put in the top Ten you never Saw them wrestle
Even just asking this question sincerely is a crime against professional wrestling. But with Dragon potentially retiring on Sunday? You gotta hang up the boots man, wrestling doesn't deserve this abuse
I'm half joking, this shit IS dumb tho
I dont think Roman alone os the sole reason for the stock going sky high.
John should have such a bigger ego but doesn't. He was absolutely a bigger star than Roman Reigns but the rest of the product was dog 💩
Roman debut in 2012 when solo in 2014 to 2019 he build resume but he didnt get over until the ofc in 2019 to 2024, he just became a fan babyface this yr ,5 yrs of boos and 4 yrs of cheers and 1 mi utes as face, to me seth rollins is goat of this era he been over since jump
In Ring work Daniel Bryan. And let’s be real amazing heel work and as a face we all know the yes movement at it’s peak is unlike anything we have seen.
So yah had that been able to keep going out the break do to injury.
So yah GOAT
*Your Tribal Chief.
The Brahma Bull, Dwayne The Rock Johnson
Cena comments a crazy shot to Seth Rollins, Brock Lesnar … bout it tho lol. I’d be like what about me ??? 😂
If the only option are goat or overrated then yes Roman is overrated I can think of 30 names that I could put beyond Roman like Undertaker, Austin, Rock, Flair, Micheals, Bret Hart and many more
I believe it’s recency appraisal for the business. Roman is top dawg of the WWE currently. To have one of the G.O.A.T.s in Cena say that about Roman makes sense given the current run of Roman. While I don’t agree with Cena, I get it!
i think Cena and Austin to me are the goats but when roman is retired more people will definitely come around to calling roman the goat but i don't think id say that yet still. To me Cena and Austin are just so tough to beat for that claim, But at the end of the day wrestling isn't the NBA or NFL or something, in those sports there is a clear few people you could argue who the goat is and if you say anything else you are being silly. In wrestling its not that easy, its not about who's the most accomplished because it isn't a real competition to see who's the best fighter, its about who did the most for the business and who meant the most to you when you were the most invested so there is probably like 50 wrestlers that to a certain person has a real argument as the goat so Cena calling roman the goat i totally understand his argument for such and if that's what he believes the goat is then i cant say he's wrong for it. its like comic chatacters. you can argue the goat is superman, wolverine , batman, spiderman, the hulk , thanos, the joker and more and none of those would really be wrong, its just about who you gravitate towards the most.
My Rushmore is Roman, Stone Cold, Rock , anddddddddd a tie between Triple H and Cena
Hard to call a part timer the Goat when guys like Bret,Shawn and even Hogan wrestled more in one month than Reigns has in the past 3 years.
My Mount Rushmore
Terry Funk
HBK
Roman
Doink The Clown
It's Undertaker, and Roman is nowhere near that spot
It's not undertaker ..undertaker didn't draw m ore than Cena ,rock Austin,Hogan...you like him great ,cool
@@khesipresents1885 The Undertaker is the most consistently creative character in WWE history his ability to adapt his character to the times is incomparable he was always one of the biggest matches at WM and he was a top-tier performer that's why he's my GOAT it not just about headlining and selling but Roman is close imo
@@ONLYALEXISOMAR lol you're just biased and not using logic .. undertaker is not above Cena,Austin,Hogan,rock..no matter how much you want that to be the case
@khesipresents1885
What logic are u talking about?
There is no logic behind your, mine or his personal feelings. This is not an objective question, its a question of preference.
The question is not "Who is the most commerically viable". And there is absolutely no reason to not prefer creative output over selling seats, just as much as the other way around, no matter how hard you want to deny it.
Ps: Im not even agreeing with him, but yall fanboys need to fanboys and try to bite everything that dissents.
Undertakers mic skills are avg at best. but he's still a goat.
Roman Reigns is a first class Hall of Fame choice, he carried the company on his back for half a decade, helped orchestrate one of the greatest storylines in wresting history, and now returned as a super mega Babyface, matching, if not succeeding that of Cody Rhodes.
Roman is the GOAT no question about it
100%
All y'all hating on Roman because what John said can shut up, obviously John has been in the business long enough to know that man ain't just talking, Roman been doing numbers, much more than most of the these guys.
Bro it’s more than that listen to the stories the fans have about John yeah no bets are good but it’s about the impact you have with the fans and Roman just started having one when John had always gone out of his way for the fans
@@MichaelAnderson-yu8mr Roman has always had an impact with the fans, when they were booing him after he left the shield, cheering when he was apart of the shield, all of those are impacts, whether he was booed or cheered.
@@MichaelAnderson-yu8mr Secondly, Roman does just as much as John does outside of the business why do you think John accepted him as the G.O.A.T. because he knew deep down he was gonna make an impact when he came in the business.
@@eliousley220 John make a wish contributions alone far outweighs all of Romans fan interactions outside of the ring… never heard a story of Roman having a fan call his friend who couldn’t make a meet and greet just to say hi and take 10 mins of his time to have a conversation with a person who couldn’t make it to meet him…. I get you love Roman now but you can’t come close to saying he’s done just as much as John had for the fans
@@MichaelAnderson-yu8mr Bro yes he has, have you even looked Roman's make a wish foundation, he's granted as many wishes as John Cena, do your research bro.
Cenas prime was a boring era after 2009 to 2016. I liked jericho though
I'm a huge Roman fan. I have been for his entire career. I still loved him when EVERYBODY was hating on him. Is he the GOAT? Absolutely not.
Cena compliments Roman but still shows bitterness by making sarcastic remarks like Roman came back when there was no crowd etc one would think it would be harder to wrestle without an audience by Cena's view Roman had a easy up.
Roman Reigns The GOAT
He has been paid to say this
I would put taker on that list, if not at the top.
The goat argument will always be such a waste of time, the world will never agree who is best, its not like football or basketball or boxing, where you could easily point the best out of the best, but wrestling is too wide of a canvas for having one goat
14:06 Still best game ever C:
The use of GOAT has become f'd out. Which one is the scapegoat. Goats get eaten.
I just can’t get on board with John Cena being the G.O.A.T. - it’s a Malibu’s Wanted/8 Mile gimmick and another example of Vince McMahon appropriating black culture (spinning championship belt - 50 cent chain influence). I’ll take Undertaker, Flair, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, or The Rock. Honorable mention would be the great D’Lo Brown! 😂🙏🏽
John cena is the goat
Glad you removed the music
Lol where’s the music ?
No no no no no no no no.....let me think...no no no
John cena is a company man.....hell also say bron breakker is the goat in 3 years when hes the most pushed guy on the roster
He's neither. He's right where he should be
cena has said what he said, now the roman haters can shutup 🤣🤣😹😹
I'm fine with Roman Reigns as long as he doesn't hold the WWE Universal Heavyweight Championship hostage again for a ridiculous amount of time.
I don’t think we can ever have just 1 greatest of all time.
Yup WE Can that why WE quality him as ''the''
Matt>>>>
Wrong, Simon is the greatest
the reason why Roman Reigns never get the respect, at least mine, is that he has a poor mic and in-ring skills. top it up with lame movesets although somehow, people are buying it... this are also the reason why WWE surrounds him with people (the bloodline) who will "help" him to become interesting. so to say his is "The GOAT"? no... never.
Well said... He can't carry his own chair let alone the whole table.
But Steve Austin is the goat top 4 would be Steve Austin hulk hogan undertaker Shawn Michaels
John is right.
Austin is hands down he was the main reason why raw won the war against nitro if the wwe didn’t win that war there would be no Roman now Austin McMahon was the main reason
Dwayne The Rock Johnson 🐐
I do believe Brock Lesnar has a huge stake in all of this and there is no mention of him. Strange
A few years ago Cena stated that Brock was the Goat
Cena IS just being corporate
Brock IS probably in the top 30 and so IS Roman
No
Roman Reigns is overrated. Almost every match he was in as the WWE Undisputed Universal Champion, he needed help from his cousins to retain the titles. I would even say oh Roman's match is on and he's gonna win again.
Terry Funk.
Is Roman great as a character yes, in ring is just OK...love him but GOAT?! Lets be serious here.
Disagree big time. He has become pretty damn great but no