Tripod Center Column vs. Without Center Column | Vibration Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Is a tripod with a center column so bad we should avoid them altogether? Join me in performing a vibration analysis with a Wit Motion gyroscope to compare the stability of a carbon fiber tripod with and without a center column. Throughout the video, I talk about tools of the trade and share many tips and lessons learned while practicing the art of landscape photography.
Links to mentioned videos:
3 Essential Landscape Photography Accessories I Can’t Live Without • 3 Essential Landscape ...
Geared Head vs. Ball Head for Landscape Photography • Geared Head vs. Ball H...
Peter Fritz @PETERFRITZPHOTO
Photographer - Michael Scott
Camera - Nikon D800
Lens - Nikon 24-70 f/2.8
Tripod - Gitzo Series 2 Traveler Carbon Fiber Tripod
Nikon - MC- 30 Remote Trigger Release
HoldPeak 866B Digital Anemometer Handheld Wind Speed Meter
WT901BLECL MPU9250 High-Precision 9-axis Gyroscope
Website - scottymanphoto
Contact - scottm@scottymanphoto.com
Haha - brilliant!! Well done, mate! This video will live and grow on RUclips forever!! 👍
Haha! Thought you might get a kick out of this one. Like I said, I wore that lab coat for you, buddy 😀 Thanks for all your support!
@@ScottymanPhoto Absolutely, and my son thought it was very cool as well! Thanks for all yours, too. You've been a rock of support throughout my journey so far; many times giving me the lift I needed to go again.
@@peterfritzphoto Thank you, my friend!
For the wind test, I’d like to see it with the fan oscillating and changing speeds. I would think perhaps the difference might be a little more significant with a more natural “gusting”
I thought about adding some wind gusts from a leaf blower. Maybe in the future. Haha! Small wind gusts may not seem like much, but I'll bet it makes a big difference in image quality.
Thanks for sharing your findings. I realize all this 30 years ago but my test at that time were more empirical, the results were very revealing. One very important cause of vibrations is the rubber feet. I you observe, no mater how well constructed a tripod is, it is resting literally on jelly. The level of reverberation an lack of steadiness is incredible. A metal spike does a much better job keeping the whole assembly stiff. The floor soil sand or any other material behave like part of the structure, providing it is solid or steady and don’t have or transmit other vibrations.
Designing the legs is an art, not only the should be stiff and light but free from resonance as much as possible.
Thanks again, may be having all the test equipment at your disposal my finding could be verified.
I think you’re absolutely correct about the rubber feet. However, rubber feet may be better suited for some applications. I think a comparison between different feet may be in order. I used claw feet during my testing, but I think I would have experienced more vibration had I used the rubber feet on a concrete floor. Interesting thoughts! Thanks for sharing, and thank you for watching.
All I can say is, You're a ‘Natural.’ Your Video quality and camera presence, ( aided by that white coat no doubt 😊) made for an informative and engaging presentation. Appreciate the effort, and to anyone out there, doubting these results, I would say the results are pretty much what can be expected.
Back in the Film days, I use to use my Nikon FM2, loaded with Ektar 25, mounted on an old Bogen tripod that weighed like 11 pounds! It didn't move! MUP and cable release, and the results were stunning. The only guarantee for a rock solid ‘base,’ would be one of these older heavy as heck tripods, or a wooden one, but then, who the heck is gonna carry that up a trail? 😯 As always, YMMV. Stay safe. 👍✌
George, thanks for the flattering comments! I appreciate the support! Thanks for sharing your thoughts,and thank you for watching.
@@ScottymanPhoto You’re Very Welcome! Nice reply and Thank You. So, what if I told You I just Subscribed, when I told myself, NO MORE Subscriptions?! Well, I did it, and now you're stuck with me! 😆 Looking forward to catching up on your past Videos, and upcoming ones as well! Stay safe and Happy Shooting!
@@georgedavall9449 Now I’m very flattered! Thanks for subscribing. I’ll have to work harder now, not wanting to let you down!
@@ScottymanPhoto 😊 🤗 🤝
That’s camping stool is not a bad idea and it’s certainly better than handheld photography. Yeah, I considered using my phone, but that small gyroscope just mounted so easily on my camera. I plan to use it more with some other testing, just haven’t got around to it yet. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and thank you for watching!
I think your tests and results are actually amazing and can help explain why some photos are or aren’t sharp. I think hands off the camera is a critical step to sharpness. I usually use either the timer delay or a wireless remote. Well done!
Thank you, Clark! I’m delighted you enjoyed it! I found the timer to be the best option for those without a wireless remote or cable release. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and thank you for watching!
Great video! And some of my videos were in the YT scroll towards the beginning! Nice!
I definitely think the quality of the tripod makes a huge difference. I have one tripod with a center column that has a noticeable wiggle in it when it is down. Just a poorly built tripod. I have another, nice tripod with a center column that even when extended "feels" very sturdy - more sturdy than the cheap one with center column down.
Did you do any analysis on how long the vibration lasted? One thing I've read is that the higher the center column the more affect inertia has. Once there is a vibration it takes longer to stop than without a center column.
Again - love the video! Well done!
Jeffrey, while researching for this, I found your center column video; excellent video, by the way! I did note the duration of the vibration but opted to keep the video as short as possible. Perhaps I will look more into the duration in the future. I do plan to do a bit more experimenting. In fact, I received sufficient comments and suggestions to fuel another video or two. I was thinking about comparing different tripods, but now that you mention it, I might delve more into the magnitude and duration and how these affect the image sharpness at a given shutter speed. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate the feedback!
@@ScottymanPhoto Awesome! Well done video. I subscribed so I'll see future updates.
And after looking more at your channel, looks like you sometimes get to the state just south of me!
@@JeffreyTadlockPhotographyThanks for subscribing! I did the same when I saw you’re in Ohio. I get to Kentucky fairly often. I love the Red River Gorge. Around Dec-Feb, I usually attempt an overnight winter excursion for a bit of arch photography.
Great video and tests! I interpret the results a bit differently though. The differences between column and no column were small numbers, but you were only dealing with smalll numbers to begin with. The peaks with the column were 14% - 50% higher than the peaks without. Those are pretty significant differences.
Very true! .1 or .2 of 1 degree is nothing to dismiss. Later I think I’ll compare some images with .1 degree of movement against an image with no movement. I’d like to be able to more precisely measure the degree of movement as well. Who knows what a future video holds! Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and thanks for watching!
hahah, this was cool. love the deep dive and hard data to support the claims. I do wonder - each of these are discreet elements impacting vibration. What about combining all of them? I bet hand pressing shutter, 2s timer, with wind and ground vibration all together would lead to a more material difference than each on their own. I'm mostly glad though that the data strongly supports that shutter release :)
Yeah, after this little experiment, I think I will do my best to use my larger Gitzo as often as possible. However, like I said in the video, I don’t plan on shying away from my center column tripod when I’m on the go. Indeed, I think small movements in the tripod will have a significant cost in terms of sharpness. Maybe most people wouldn’t notice, but the pixel peepers, they’ll notice for sure! But with the average photo hanging on the wall, I’m not sure anyone could tell the difference except under higher winds. Thanks for watching, Brian! And as always, thanks for sharing your thoughts I truly appreciate your support.
What a great presentation.I do agree with your findings to some extent.However i have never had the need for a centre column due to buying tripods that extend well past 6.5 feet.
By the way,what's with the shirt and tie?Every sparky I have had dealings with wore contractors clothing,lol😂.
Well done my friend.
Haha! I wore that for kicks! I actually enjoyed being “out” of character for a change. I was thinking of you throughout the video wondering what you might say 😂 You can’t argue with garage science. I might invent the first landscape photography tripod gyro stabilizer. Thanks for watching, buddy I truly appreciate all your support!
Amazing video! Thanks a lot.
How much of the worse results with the center column do you think is due to the fact that with the center column the camera is standing higher?
That’s a good question! Truly, the taller the tripod, the more unstable it becomes. In my example, I don’t think it made much difference, but it has to be somewhat worse. Maybe I’ll explore this a bit more in the future! Thank you for sharing your thoughts! Great question!!!
I think a big part of your good results for the center column is that you're using a Gitzo Traveler, which should pretty much be the best in the travel category. Some of the cheaper tripods are probably not engineered as good, and Gitzo seem to do a good job with their center column. It's a really simple design and looks solid just from looking at it and handling it. Also the magnesium cast they use is supposedly very good at reducing vibrations.
And I think a "main" tripod should probably not have a center column, but travel tripod definitely should. You want to get as much height for the least amount of packed sized, and it's ok to sacrifice some stability in this case. Worst case scenario you'll get on your knees and use it very low if in extreme winds.
Nicely put, my friend! I agree 100%. I think the results would be different on cheaper tripods. The Gitzo is a solid tripod for sure! I plan to do further analysis comparing various other models in various conditions. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and thank you for watching! Excellent comments!
@@ScottymanPhoto Yeah great video by the way thanks :)
@@Razertw Thank you! I’ve been wanting to do this for a long time. I got a few more I’ll be putting together soon.
It also depends on the lens size. For longer lenses vibration is significantly higher.
That’s very true, indeed! I considered using a much heavier 70-200 but wanted to stay within the range of what I thought most people would typically use. I’ll bet the data would have been much different with a heavier lens. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and thanks for watching!
I appreciated seeing numbers, but it would be worthwhile to know how each degree/second difference translates to change in photo sharpness. Maybe for a different video you could increase the fan speed incrementally and see how much change appears in the photo.
I am considering some additional videos. The relationship between wind speed and camera shake could be useful. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
one point about vibration, as you imply at 7:36 that 1deg\sec. is minimal; Yes, perhaps at F8 but what about an aperture of f 2.8 or f 1.4 ? where any motion can get any desired object out of the 'focus box' as the dof is so thin at those apertures.
That's a good point, Andy! Bottom line, the more stable the tripod, the better the image. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Take care!
@@ScottymanPhoto also, a consideration is the column's diameter ( a manfrotto 058 studio tripod has a larger column than the 190 or the beefree); so affecting how stable it is, also the greater size facilitates a greater circumference, for the collet lock to work on, increasing braking power, hence stability of the system.
@@andyvan5692 Yeah, that's a another good point. Also, many of these tripod like the Beefree, have a rubber grommet or plastic securing the center column after tightening, which can introduce even more vibration. Indeed, there are numerous considerations when choosing a tripod. Great points! I can see now I’m going to have to make another video soon.
Next up mirrorless camera, 2 or 10 sec delay vs cable release, bet they are nearly the same
Yeah, I agree! I think it's probably little to no vibration. However, the vibration may vary from model to model?
What effect did the total height have? Would a taller tripod (so having the camera at the same height as with the column) be less stable?
Good question, Kevin! I suspect weight is a major factor. A heavier tripod would almost certainly perform better in the same conditions, I think. I also think that the taller the tripod, the less stable it would be. However, the are other factors to consider such as construction, how far apart the legs are, and total weight. Interesting question! I'm sure I'll be making future videos and comparing other tripods. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and thanks for watching!
It’s in my lenguaje 😅 one degree variation translates to focal length plus field of view how much it will be? Lol this it’s funny but are the same time interesting keep it going well topic!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and thank you for watching!
Obviously a centre column raised will be more susceptible to vibration, especially in gusting winds (a condition not tested).
An advantage of larger tripods is that they can be set to a comfortable height that doesn't need the centre column raised, with the added benefit of sitting on a wider base.
Hanging a weight beneath the tripod can also help, possibly significantly (something for testing next time). This advice applies to any tripod one might have now, as well as any future tripod.
Supporting a camera/lens combo as close to the balance point as possible is also key (use a tripod collar on the lens if possible rather than balancing weight outboard by attaching the camera/lens combo on the camera's tripod screw).
Also set the tripod so that the weight involved is as much as possible evenly distributed across the three legs.
Combine vibration reducing techniques for best results (obviously). As someone who likes to stack images taken at extreme macro, eliminating vibration is key.
@@ronjenkins4257 Good points, Ron! I may indeed do additional testing in future videos. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Last time I trusted the science I couldn't leave my house for two years 😋
I knew it was only a matter of time before someone said that! Nice one! 😂
What about the 2 second delay?
It’s funny that you should mention that! I compared the timer using a cable release without the mirror up, and the results were identical. However, the timer does introduce motion compared to a cable release with the mirror up because there is no pause between the mirror up and the shutter firing. Nevertheless, the timer is a significantly better option compared to the handheld! Sorry, but to keep the video as short as possible, I didn’t include the test because I expected the timer and cable release “without mirror up” to be equal. Great question, and thanks for watching!
Thank you for your reply. I enjoy watching your videos, and thanks for the information in this video - quite interesting.
Interesting… You’re right-hand dominant; yet your watch is on your right wrist. Savage.
Keen eye, my friend 😃 Had to wear it there for a bit while healing an injury. Thanks for watching!
@@ScottymanPhoto awesome . I’ve been researching tripods (and massively disappointed with the lack of innovation in the space ). I believe many of the shortcomings with tripods have actually been solved by structural engineering concepts dating back to the 1840s - just not incorporated. I also discovered another ghetto solution to avoiding tripod wobble : (wait for it) : camping stools (the 3 legged saddle things for fishers ). You instantly lower the center of gravity and solve the issue of needing a camera at eye-level. Also - did you find the gyro device more accurate than using your phone’s accelerometer (accessible via the web api btw - so no need to dick around with Swift and Xcode certificates ). Oh god I’m oversharing again . Peace !