Why I Think MEG WHITE is GREAT | Pro Drummer Opinion
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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Andy is a drummer, producer and educator. He has toured the world with rock legend Robert Plant and played on classic prog albums by Frost and IQ.
As a drum clinician he has played with Terry Bozzio, Kenny Aronoff, Thomas Lang, Marco Minneman and Mike Portnoy.
He also teaches drums privately and at Kidderminster College
“Making an album in the studio is like building a ship in a bottle. Playing live shows is like being in a rowboat on the ocean”. Jerry Garcia.
Meg might not be Neil Peart but she played in a two piece band that sounded full and complete. Job well done.
Like any high school kid.
@@richsackett3423you sound jealous,must be a voter.
@@skywalkersbutido6375 Sorry - jealous of what, fanboy?
@@richsackett3423im a high schooler who happens to be a drummer. she can do more with quarter notes than i can with more complex stuff
someone (Simon Kirke maybe) once said that the art to drumming is knowing what to leave out, and not put in.
Absolutely and I think that applies to everyone.
Totally agree, Meg's understated but solid style allowed Jack's virtuosity to shine and it's what made the band work. Another drummer I think is underrated is Blur's Dave Rowntree, an early example of his greatness on Slow Down off the debut album
Blur are a great band
Meg White is an exceptional drummer! She is pure energy. His synergy and telepathy with Jack at rhythm change and improvisations is unique! It plays the drums exactly as it should be for this musical genre. No one else conveys the same emotions to me as her. Thank you Meg for what you gave us and for the emotions you made me feel!
Tina Weymouth was no Jaco Pastorious, no shit, but who is? That said she created some of the most iconic bass riffs ever to be played to propel Talking Heads and her solo efforts, like no other bass part or bass player could. Her riffs were complete and definitive, as is. The application of technical virtuosity would have corrupted them with complication and inflated the role of bass into an exercise of practiced technique. Most of the songs she played on were constructed around her uniquely inventive base lines. Simplicity is genius. Meg like Ringo played exactly what was necessary and nothing extraneous or beyond.
White Stripes were a complete entity (much like the Beatles), they wouldn't have blown up without Meg, not just her drumming but the look and the faux sexual tension with her 'brother'.
Not just appreciation but an education. Enjoying this channel a lot.
Using the defence of Meg Whites drumming as an opportunity to say so many true things about music making in general is just awesome. The thing about The White Stripes in my opinion - and especially in Seven Nation Army - is that everything fits the purpose of transmitting meaning and message to us. Drumming, guitar playing, lyrics, songwriting. I am not a musician. I just love what I hear.
Thanks. This cuts through all the bull. Tip top content!
Best I've heard coming up through the ranks now is Pau Villareal. Fiery, yet under control when she needs to be. Also helps that she plays with her two sisters and they have a chemistry that you can't really explain. Also, I haven't heard anyone who can sing and do drum fills at the same time like she can.
It’s just fantastic to see such an articulate defence of Meg’s unique and wonderful groove.
Andy is offering some priceless wisdom here regarding our priorities as musicians, AND as listeners. I've never heard an accomplished drummer denigrate Meg White's playing. All the dudes piling on have at least one thing in common: they've never played an instrument of any kind on any record that any of us will ever hear.
This video also reminded me of a short one posted a long time ago by a drummer named Brandon Khoo at a clinic, titled "How can you tell a good drummer and a bad drummer apart?" He answers his own question regarding Meg White by demonstrating a part by Ringo.
This video is a snub to idiots that think music only equals skill level. When I see those comments here I thimk 'did they actually watch the video'? as they seem pretty stupid voicing this opinions after I have made these points. But it is entertaining nonetheless
Funny thing. I'm a drummer but at first I never noticed Meg's lack of technique in the WS singles. To me it was just more new wave music and I was luke warm. When I saw a video of Meg playing I was surprised that such a ham-fisted drummer could be playing in a famous band, and dismissed them as a gimmick band.
But when debates came on drummer forums, I really listened to the singles and there were some great pop tracks. Conquest was almost prog-like! So I came down on Meg's side. Her lack of chops doesn't matter because her drumming works in context. There's also a lesson there in leaving space for other instruments to fill. Leaving space puts more focus on melodic elements. It also allows for more timbral variety as other instruments play the notes that your busy little drummer hands might have been filling with a clichéd chicka chicka.
I agree
Meg White had a problem. She was terrified. Watching her I believe she self medicated to be able to get on stage. And yes she had a natural ability that was quite amazing. She was there and wasn't a flashy, speedy player. Jack and Meg knew where the other was. Come on, this was a two piece band. How scary could that be if you weren't terrified of crowds? Where could she hide. Then she got off the stage and said goodbye. After this she wed Jackson Smith son of Patti Smith and Fred (Sonic) Smith of the rock band MC5. Single again I believe. I do love her a lot and hope she is in a good place in her life, and happy.
The number of iconic guitar parts session man Louie Shelton came up with is mindblowing. Chops and creativity. Yep, its all about the song. See Louie's channel to see him explain and play the parts. Ex Wrecking Crew, he now lives in Australia. His solo for Lionel Ritchie's Hello was first take. Amazing.It makes the song.
All about the song.
Lovely video Andy. As a teacher I am always trying to inspire my students and this is a great example of how feel is so important. My favourite drummers to play with usually react instantly to what we play.
Meg White was the queen of groove and feel with The White Stripes. Neil Peart could never play what she played without sounding stiff or tentative. She deserves to be thought of as a great rock drummer.
There's something else going on here. Neil would have never wanted to play parts as sparse as Meg. This idea that he couldn't have is silly. Artistic intent matters. I don't like the White Stripes all that much (if at all), but they staked their intent in being sparse, basic, fundamental and trying to be effective in that. It worked for whom it worked for. It didn't work for a lot of others. Being forgiving of intent doesn't make her suitable for any number of situations.
Yes he could. Next you’ll be saying The Shaggs’ drummer was amazing. Peart stiff and hesitating? You know nothing.
@@richsackett3423 I guess I touched a nerve. Sure, Peart could've played like Meg White, but it would have been a dishonest effort and therefore stiff and tentative. When sacred cows are criticized, some people are offended. And by the way, Elvin Jones, Tony Williams, John Bonham, Keith Moon, Billy Cobham and Ziggy Modeliste are among my favorite drummers of all time. So you're right; I know nothing. Have a nice life.
@@stuartfishman1044 You didn't "touch a nerve" but instead said idiotic shit like "She deserves to be thought of as a great rock drummer." What a joke her playing is. ANY high school drummer good enough to play in the jazz band plays better drums. All those famous guys will still be great regardless of the fact she played like a child.
Yes, obviously fans know nothing about playing the drums. Why would they think they do? Please answer. I suspect it has to do with the internet.
@@richsackett3423 I'm not really interested in speculating about what people know or don't know about playing the drums. As to Meg White's skill level as a drummer, I think she embodies the primal spark that rock 'n roll represented in its early days, as well as Garage Rock and Punk. Back then, it was about simplicity, not technical ability. Hopefully, it won't be lost in the future.
The algorithm suggested me this and your “why do all jazz musicians sound the same” and I’m hooked! More deep thoughts on music, please! 😁🙌
So so well said Andy !
Thank you, Andy. You totally nailed it. Rock is not about being faster, complex, virtuoso. If a musician is like that, that's amazing, but rock is about emotion.
I always said that there are millions of musicians who could play songs from Beatles, White Stripes, Led Zeppelin, Metallica, or even more difficult ones from progressive rock, note by note, but still, how many can actually create music which will resonate with most of us? Those are rare.
Meg is a great drummer and she’s beautiful
Hear early ACDC songs. Every single sound and moment. totally inspired and effective sounding choices
Tony Kenning from Def Leppard became the band's hitmaker when he returned to drumming after losing an arm:check out the new approach on the insanely hooky 'Animal'. Technically speaking, he's a less able drummer than Meg White, but it didn't stop him!.
Great point, although that was Rick Allen!
@@billyjleva Thanks for that. I didn't know they'd had two one-armed drummers - what are the chances?!
Nice one Andy. good that you mentioned Virgil Donati.He is a remarkable musician.
The songs from the White Stripes albums she played on sound great. Can't sound great with bad drums.
Another great video Andy You speak so much sense
You’re so right about the whole bands being important thing I think, almost all of todays popular acts are either rappers or singers and while many of them are great they don’t have the same appeal that a band does to me for the reasons you said! A solo artist is selling a carefully crafted artistic vision/persona whereas a band is more about being part of a group and experimenting.
Spot on Andy.
You just nailed my argument about why I like the Rolling Stones, but love The Beatles. The Rolling Stones songbook was never anything more than about Sex whereas The Beatles songbook, their entire canon, is about Love. The Rolling Stones, nothing more than just dime-store lovin'.
Your example of drummers that ask and work off a lyrics sheet is just gold and mirrors a friend of mine's approach as well. Ben Smith (Seattle) has been the drummer for the band Heart for some years. He was also hired to record a Pop/Folk/Rock release by my old bandmate Kiko from my old Brasilian Jazz group. I had turned Kiko onto Webber Guitars, and on my recommendation, he bought a bespoke Webber OM acoustic guitar which inspired him to quickly write a whole slew of songs. On his planned Solo recording, he hired the studio owner/operator Gary Shelton to play bass, and my pal Ben Smith on drums. Kiko described to me how Ben went about nailing his tunes by working off the lyric sheets. I had done gigs with Ben, but never worked a studio date, so that very technique was new to me. I had never observed a drummer work like that in a recording studio before even though my twin brother and youngest brother are both professional drummers!
Freaking beautiful talk, Andy.
Thank you kindly
So well said Andy. Meg poured her heart and soul in to the songs...result, the music spoke and continues to speak, to millions of people around the world.
That's what Jack White was doing. Meg was just hitting round things with sticks in a primitive and unschooled way which excited Jack musically. Nothing as fancy as what you wrote.
Meg White brings...love. I just might subscribe.
Please do a breakdown on Moe Tucker of the Velvet Underground!
Dude! This 1000%! You don't have to be the "greatest" most technical musician to make great music. Musicians often forget the masses are not musicians like you said, they don't care about shredding, chops and so on, they want a good groove and something they can tap their foot too or nod their head. Jack white himself is a pretty decent drummer, listen to the dead weather, I read or saw an interview with him talking about megs drumming. He said something to the effect he thought her playing was somewhat child like and unorthodox which brought something special to those tracks.
Nice one Andy 👍😀
If virtuosity were the standard, nobody could play. Meg is great! It's just her and Jack in front of thousands she's playing.
Creativity, the ability to create something new is often adversarial to technical proficiency and the simpler and more expressive the art form the more technical proficiency becomes a liability in creating a definitively new or distinct variation.
This is exactly how I feel about musicians, technique and expression....So its a bit surprising to have this video posted, when a couple of weeks ago there was a video about Bonham's lack of technique.
Makes perfect sense to me.
It's all about challenging widely held opinions....
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Your point is taken...thanks so much for your reply. I guess I'm always going to be that person that is mystified about the persona of Bonham and Zep in general. Through my filter of a educated musician, however, I'm still in awe of Bonham's prowess. Anyways....let's give Meg the props she deserves, and fight the Bonham fight some other time! Cheers
Nice one, Andy... ☝️😎
Peter Erskine said "I was definitly not the greatest,best drummer in weather report". Meg Ryan def the greatest in WS
I loved her in When Harry Met Sally
Agreed. 100%
Nostalgia '77 / Prince Fatty album "In The Kingdom of Dub" has an excellent cover version of Seven Nation Army. You might think "whaa?" how can a cover version be worth a listen? But do, listen to their interpretation. It's a belter.
There's a lineage with The White Stripes doing this song, that to my mind is tied to "Rumble" by Link Wray. If you're a fan of White Stripes and 7NA; and you don't know that track, turn it up and enjoy!
Anyhoo ... thanks Andy - for another video and making my evening's entertainment richer than most of the tripe available. Ferrets!
Before I even watch - yes, absolutely, that Jack sure effed up, eh?
Very succinct.
Bill Bruford is no Charlie Watts,.. (and, vice versa)
Dig.
Thank you! Perfectly elucidated.
Moe Tucker
I'm reminded of the story where Keith Moon simply could not play the 6/8 groove required for "The Music must Change" He ultimately stood on his stool proclaiming (paraphrasing) "I'm the best Keith Moon style drummer on the planet". Tony Williams fully confessed he was incapable of playing a proper funk groove. B.B. King does NOT know how to play chords! Are these legends any less great?
What they played is who they were.
I avoided this video at first because I was never very interested in the White Stripes. Glad I watched it though. Very educational for me as a non-musician. ...But I'd still prefer to listen to the in-your-face drumming of Akane Hirose in Band-Maid 😁🥁
Good video and true, It may be that being a musician means focusing … on making music, it ain't an Olympic sport! Realise that sounds simple, I reckon all the fancy schools like Berlekee messed up 95% of their students and turned them into robotic metronome machines, and then wondered why so few of them learned how to make a living doing it. Athletics by endless repetition, most musical audiences aren't the same audience that turns up to sporting events.
It's no coincidence that the “classic” bands that surprisingly still appeal to the younger generation, they all had great drummers without fail. Seems to be the hidden factor: Ian Paice, Simon Kirk, Bonham, Keith Moon, Ginger Baker, Brian Downey, Bill Ward,(a good example, because he’s over the place in terms of accuracy but it somehow works in a fluid and magical way, that makes sense). What do they all have in common? feel, you analyse it it all comes down to the way they tune their drums and how they hit them, and the swing factor . Its probable that none of them thought about it too hard, and thats where people struggle .
Well said
Andy this was the most important lesson you could give. I completely agree with you and then some. It’s all about Love, music is having a relationship with people. People want to feel it and you want to feel it too. The best of rock is all about feeling, energy, vibe, groove, dynamics and Not about ego, virtuosity, clothes, hair, lasers, or any kind of manipulation. Kids you need to go for it. Don’t be afraid to push it off the rails because if you do they will love you all the more for it. Everyone is on stage with you, we are all together bring everyone along. Nobody cares how good you are, always remember it’s not about you, it about them. They will love you because you love them and they will know you love them because it’s in the music. Surrender the ego and go with the flow as they say. If women and children don’t dance and laugh at your gig you’re doing something wrong imho. People go out to have a good time and enjoy the company of others all having a good time together. Most people will remember having a good time and feeling something special and real. Just be yourself. Relax play to the room and be receptive, it’s a two way street. Empathy !
I'm glad these videos are motivating comments like this one...
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer thanks Andy. You really got to the marrow of the thing.
But Andy isn't drumming supposed to be a tangled mess of incomprehensible shredding?
Only when it's supposed to be....
Maybe Meg wants to drum again?
Meg White is an OK drummer, plenty of female playing more deserving of praise. As underrated drummers go, I would like to see positive criticism for Lars Ulrich who has earned a recent reputation as a very bad drummer. He was hugely pioneering in his day and deserved credit for his early career.
Moe Tucker next, please
Well she didn't hold back the stripes much... saw a free show they did at Stone Mountain Park in Atlanta once... all the girls taking their tops off, just like the good old days🥸
At the end of the day that’s the stuff we remember, that’s the stuff we want.
I know maybe 240 Beatles songs on guitar and voice. When I play a Beatles song I play it like me (playing a Beatles song). It is not the Beatles, it is not me, it is its own creature. 7-Nation-Army is effin brilliant.
When I hear 7 Nation Army it reminds me of being in high school and wondering why the same people who were charmed by this tune and band wouldn't stop telling me about Harry Potter and Star Wars. These same people were shitting so hard on Lateralus by Tool, which was what I was into at that time- and there's real depth there that doesn't need to be apologized for or explained. And Love? That's what Meg brought to that tune? Sounds like she was medicated to me. I dunno if I buy any of these takes beyond, it was stylistically consistent with the priorities of the rock press at that time. The same people who love things like Sonic Youth- playing too much is bad! Try amateurism, it won't go over anyone's head! It sold too. Hipsters man.. meh.
can't remember who said it , basically, but as a bassist what i DON'T play is more important than what i DO. I Still get that wrong constantly but it is SO TRUE.
Sounds like Miles Davis?
"music is the best"
Seven nation army is all about the drumming for me. She intuitively leaned into that feel, no other drummer would have done that. She could be the worst drummer in the world idk but on that day she was the best.
All drummers do that. You should get out and talk to some musicians IRL.
@@richsackett3423 lol I meant do that like she did that. And yes good drummers do that but that’s the point isn’t it.
ruclips.net/video/LybU-5S2iM4/видео.html What you said here drove me to actual tears. Thank you, Andy!
I agree and I'll mention a very GROSSLY underrated female drummer, SANDY WEST.
Hey Andy, you sounded just like the closet Grateful Dead fan that I know you are!
Any high school boy could outplay Meg White. She was ridiculous. How you know she was a sideshow and not a serious musician is she hasn’t played in a band since the White Stripes ended. Not what a real drummer would do.
It’s worth noting that bassists know more about what makes a good drummer than drummers do. Primarily, they play with more of them than other drummers.
Absolutely Andy and some great points as usual.However,this journo,a member of the public is merely expressing an opinion.If he'd said ELO would have been better with someone other than Bev Bevan no one would have raised a plucked eyebrow.I leave that there for you to pick over.Personally as a musician and a fan of music,any music,I think,and it's my opinion,that Dave Weckl's drumming ,especially his tone,is horrific.Unlistenable.Same for Steve White or the drummer from Eddie and The Hot Rods.Again,that's what I think.From a 'technical 'or 'groove' point of view and,more importantly,a member of this seething mass called the general public.
"Meg White is great"? What's next, how Karen Carpenter was the most influential drummer of all time? 😀
why I think Karen Carpenter is better than Buddy Rich.......
@@armandom28 Id rather have Karen than Buddy in my band.
@@armandom28she never played clams!😂
As a guy who used to be a "chops snob" I used to assume she was probably lame. I've recently watched some live "Carpenters". She was pretty damn good!
@@attichatchsound-bobkowal5328 Karen took lessons from the main wrecking crew drummer who’s name escapes me at the moment. She regretted not playing more instrumentals where she could just play drums. People loved her and still do, even if all she did was play drums people would have still loved her, that emotion and sweetness would have come through.
She’s just not tho
Ok now you’re just trolling dude😂
It amazes me that people can convince other people that something lousy is really good. There was something missing in Meg’s drumming. She was sloppy, missed the beat and was boring.. She was no great talent. 😢 She just didn’t have it! Whatever it is!
Clearly you aren't all there in the head.
Why ?
Probably because she wasn't an @sshole! lol!
I think white meat is great
No she is not! Sheila E is. Metal Cohen is. Terri Lynne Carrington is.
Is it "great", though, or was it so simple that anyone could have played it well? If she was happy to play like that on record then she knew where she was musically. I don't think it needs to be difficult to be great, but I don't actually think that there is a need for a qualification about her drumming. It's adequate for the song, that's all. Why is everyone defending her and calling her great? - I recall she said herself that she wasn't very good. Bottom line, I don't think she could be called "great" in any sense of the word.
She is great in her choices, as I said in the video
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Meh.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummerYeah the guy who mows the lawn over the road is "great" too. Unsubscribed.
stop lying. meg white is not a great drummer; that's not the point.