Speaking of memories, this was the aircraft I flew on as a kid from Tri-State airport in Huntington WV to my dad's house in Virginia. My personal joke is you know your old when you flew on prop driven aircraft in your life.
One thing to note is that of the total of 109 HS 748s manufactured by HAL for the Indian Air Force, 57 are still flying. While the type is scheduled for retirement in the near future, the HS 748 has had an exceptional service record, and very high reliability. Over 59 years of service (the first aircraft entered IAF service in April 1964), the type has seen a grand total of 7 crashes (of which 2 were due to mechanical issues, 2 were lost in mid-air collisions, and 3 were lost to pilot error). As such, the aircraft has put up an exceptional service history and legacy.
As a Canadian, I am somewhat conflicted with my admiration of the ATP. The ATP was a great looking aircraft, but like you said, it's design was old and the mighty Dash 8 was just too much to compete with. Thanks for another great documentary!
First time I ever flew was in a Dan Air 748 Cardiff to Jersey in 1982.Disappointed this airline wasn't mentioned in the video as I remember them operating this aircraft well!
Good catch. Jason Robards was nominated for the third time in five years for the same category, Best Actor in a Supporting Role. He won in both 77' and 78' but not in '80 for this role. He was only onscreen 7 minutes for that nomination in this movie. Oddly enough Mary Steenburgen won an Oscar for Best Supporting Actress Award in this film, mostly it seems for disrobing and no one else that year seemed to fit the category.
Love this! Please everybody note: it`s an Austrian Airlines 748 at Innsbruck Airport depicted at 17:36 , at a time when we still had some steam locos for the Arlberg rail route. Cheers from Linz!!
The ATPs days in service left are numbered. They finished operating in the UK back in August 2022, where the aircraft was operating the EMA-ABZ route on a daily basis. They then finished operating in Europe a few months later, where the aircraft SE-MAP was operating a route on behalf of UPS from CGN-ZAG-BEG. The aircraft was taken off this route, and out of service when it was hit by a set of steps during a storm, and required extensive repairs before a special ferry flight back to MMX at 10,000ft was authorised due to pressurisation issues. The remaining two aircraft still operating are SE-LGZ and SE-MAM. LGZ is operating on the OSL-JKG route on behalf of FedEx, and MAM is operating on behalf of Norwegian Post on the OSL-BOO-TOS rotation. Their days are numbered however, as the aircraft will be taken out of service in the next few weeks once the contracts are transferred across to new operators. My advice to anyone who lives in Scandinavia and near the airports mentioned above would be to take photos of them while you can, as they're soon to be an extinct species!
I live close to MMX and have seen the ATP quite often over the years. West Air used to have a parts-frame at MMX, don't know if it's still there though (seems like it's gone, looking at Google Maps) Sad to see them go, but so has the 146s of Malmö Aviation, err, BRA.
Truly excellent production Ruairidh, thank you very much! Latterly, being a resident of the IOM, the ATP was our 'ferry', and one of the truths you have not broached was the inherent instability of its airframe. It was shown to me first hand on the flight deck during a flight by the Captain, a friend who was an ex RAF Hercules pilot when he switched off the auto-pilot. The plane just stuck its nose to the right and would have skidded like that everywhere unless left boot was applied or autopilot re-engaged!!! The resultant drag/fuel consumption/lack of confidence by potential customers might well have been more to do with lack of orders than we will ever know!
Throughout my career, I've flown quite a few types but, with a few thousand hours on this one, it holds a special place in my heart. My all time favorite.
I too have some memories of flying on Air North's HS748's. My longest flight with them was from Inuvik, NWT (CYEV) to Old Crow, YK (CYOC) to Dawson City, YK (CYDA) to Whitehorse, YK (CYXY) in northern Canada 🇨🇦
This video brings back happy memories of my first airline job flying the HS728 out of Liverpool with Emerald Airways. So many highly experienced airline pilots were working their last 5 years after having retired from the major carriers. My handling skills were at their best as the autopilots had been removed to save weight. Like a big Aztec it was a lovely aeroplane to fly and set many young pilots on their flying careers - including me ..
I worked for British Midland at EMA from 1988 to 91 and remember the ATP well, I always thought it looked really neat as I walked past it in the hanger. I worked in an Avionic workshop mainly on DC9 kit but I remember speaking to engine airframe chaps and recall them talking about engines running hot and de icing boot issues. It was alleged an ATP could fly from EMA to Heathrow on the same amount a DC9 would use to taxi from the apron to the end of the runway at EMA!
I remember the great food in the canteen, just adjacent to the hangar and training center. David Whittaker? also conducted the ground school for new crew on the ATP at that time. He didn't want the Viscount simulator to be destined for the scrap yard, so he made that his project to rescue the device. The DC-9 ground school was a blast too, very intensive study for the ARB exams! John Bowker was Chief Pilot for the ATP amongst other well know characters such as Ron Hardy (707) and beyond to the 737. Good old days indeed.
@@je7887 Good old days….really !! Riddled by a blame culture for everyone outside the golden circle, such as a Fleet Captain who went off the end of the runway at EMA in a Fk70….a Fk70 !!….and he got away with it, weeks after warning all pilots to improve , and a Pension Fund which went insolvent as soon as Bishop sold the company. Good old days indeed.
I worked on the ATP and 748s aircraft in Blackpool airport for emerald airways as an engineer in 2007. It was still a good aircraft but loads of cannibalizing to keep them flying.
I can remember back in the late 80s that the German operator DLT used them. One day one of the 748s returned from a training session, and on touch-down the left elevator spar broke, and the complete elevator was hanging down an scraping te runway. There was BAe repair team in our Hangar to fix it. As far as I can recall, an Airworthiness Directive (AD) was issued after this event. Still in my memories is this remarkable sound of the Dart eniges. Love it. Thanks for uploading
I never got to fly on it much to my regret, but what a beauty. Oh yay, BOAC, the the deathknell for every promising commercial airliner project to come out of Britain for 30 years. Damn you Speedbird!! Someones sales department wasn't om their game.
G-ARRV was the first aircraft I ever went inside. It was parked up derelict outside the hangers at Woodford. At one of the air shows it was a great (unofficial ) attraction for the kids to explore. We had to climb in through a window if I remember correctly.
I flew as air crew on one of these back in the early 90's in northern Ontario. On takeoff you would monitor the prop hubs for power. We would normally see 360 psi. When you kicked in the water/meth injection for takeoff, the gauges would peg past 620 and you'd be sucked back in your seat. This thing was a truck with wings. If you could get it in the cargo door, it would go.
Great vlog as always! In Norway there was only one 748. Fred. Olsen airlines. It later became a cal. for the Norwegian FAA. How about a vlog about the Fokker F-28. Scandinavia and Australia has been Fokker turf since day 1. Keep up the good work!
My Grand-dad who worked @ Avro's Chadderton was heavily involved with the 748 project @ Hindustan Aircraft Limited out in India in the early to mid 60's
Fantastic video Ruairidh! I remember the ATP and HS-748 from days spent at EMA. The ATP was quite a cool looking aircraft but clearly not a match for the likes of ATR. Great video as always. 👍
I never knew that the 748 was so successful and on the other hand, how unsuccessful the ATP was. I used to see so many ATPs as used by Manx Airlines I really thought they were a great success. Shame that BAe decided to stop producing civil aircraft as I was a big fan of the ATP and 146. Ah well, things move on. Great narration as always 👍.
Love all your videos, a great amount of research involved, the one video I would like to see you do is on the British Rail Class 37 and class 20 locos, still in use today and going strong, keep up the great work!
I remember as a young child flying from Portsmouth to the Channel Islands in these, and disliking them because they were really noisy, and being low wing, I always ended up not being able to see out, as I always ended up sitting over the wing!
At 24:30 you state that Air Winsconsin withdrew their aircraft in September 1993 but they were still operating for the airline in 1995. On 5th January 1995 I flew on N856AW operating from Chicago to Central Wisconsin as UA5033 and on 11th May 1995 I took N860AW in the opposite direction as UA5030
I was an avionics tech at Air Wisconsin from July 1991 to April 1992 when Air Wisconsin filed bankruptcy and many of us there were laid off. The ATP was despised by maintenance personnel. We called it Advanced Turbo Problems or A Terrible Plane. It was plagued with fuel leaks and electrical problems. We had a number of winter write-ups that the entire EFIS system had failed in flight, not a good thing on a cold Wisconsin night in blowing snow and low visibility. BAe determined that the issue was caused by the airplanes having been built with no electrical bonding straps between the flight control surfaces and airframe and no electrical bonding between the windscreens and fuselage. Static electricity built up and arced between those surfaces and the arcing caused the EFIS to shut down. My last days at Aur Whisky were spent installing bonding straps. There were other electrical issues too. The ground power relay failed relatively often and could only be accessed by pulling out several rows of seats, then pulling up the carpet and removing a floorboard. That caused long flight delays at the terminal gates, which sure didn't make our passengers happy.
Never seen these planes or aircraft before but my Dad nearly flew them before he started flying helicopters. When he was in the army and knows a lot more about aviation as it’s his hobby. Interesting to know about how these airplanes were used before and after the war.
Brilliant video, I do hear the freight ATP's as they continue to ply their trade on internal UK flights from Scotland while working nights. Not sure if I will hear any let alone see any as I transition to working days working out doors
Their days are indeed numbered. You won't see any in the UK anymore. I work for West Atlantic who operates the world's remaining 2 ATPs in Freighter configuration. There are currently 2 operating in Norway, but this is soon to be zero once the contracts for the Norwegian post expire in the next few weeks.
Im sure I flew into Glasgow in the early 1990s from Stornaway in an ATP... weather was utter shat and there was a lot of windshear. I remember it otherwise as being a very good flight though.
Thanks for the informative video! But i'm pretty sure that ATP's flew passangers until the mid 2010s for NextJet in Sweden and not ending passenger services in 2010.
Regarding HS 748 accidents, I seem to remember an HS 748 went off a runway in Scotland, killing some people in the 1980s. I saw the scrapped airframe when driving past a junkyard somewhere in the south on England and stopped to check it out and even managed to walk through the airframe. Memory fades, but that was what I was told at the time about the history of it..
No autopilot staggers me. I should've thought it would be required standard equipment by the 1960s. I remember a local airline here in Washington State flew the HS748 in the 1980s.
@@grahamfigg5817 Ok, but they had the same engines, and looked pretty much alike. We used to call it "The japanese Avro". By that time Japaneses used to copy everything from Occident
I used to fly on ATPs from Manchester to Belfast City and back fairly regularly in the late 90s. They were quite noisy but seemed OK from my point of view.
When I was a young man, back in the early 1990’s, and just starting out in my Professional Aviation Career….I was lucky enough to land my first Commercial Aviation job, flying the NOT “Ill feted” Handley-Page HPR-7 Dart Herald….Although not as successful as the Fokker F-27 or the Fairchild- Hiller FH-227, the Herald was designed as a Military Troop Carrier for the Malaysian Air Force….That’s why it had a large rear freight door and was built like a tank….Just compare the main undercarriage of the Herald to the F-27, you’ll soon see what I mean….The Herald also had the biggest of the Rolls-Royce Dart series Engines, the RR Dart 532-9 rated at 2500 SHP….Only 50 Heralds were built but, it was very successful as both a passenger carrier, and later on in the late 1980’s and 1990’s as a freighter aircraft and Royal Mail Carrier….It also had a major advantage over the F-27, with Thermal De-Icing, and not those useless rubber boots….It could melt off any ice build up and was a fantastic aeroplane to fly…..If a bit on the noisy side!
The best aircraft HS 748 for all weather and kind of unprepared air strip like gravel and grass etc, having water methanol to boost engines in extreme hot temperatura , however very weak rate of climb in high ISA deviation temperature.
I would have liked to have a 748 as a private plane, too bad I may never get that chance. I grew up with Twin Otters and HS 748B in Nunavut (NWT as it was known back then)
Sorry to correct you but Lympne is pronounced LIMM, I remember as a child watching the first 748s operated at Lympne by Skyways , those Dart engines were very shrill , I hated the sound but loved watching the 748s and old DC-3s at Lympne. My grandfather worked there for a while as a couseage with a very posh uniform.
I could see in a non-declined British Empire scenario, the UK and Canada using the ATP and DHC-8 to basically strangle the ATR-42 and Fokker 50 out of the market
Can you make a video taking about all 4 Thompson pacifics. The A1/1, The A2/1's, The A2/2's, and The A2/3's Please. Please respond when you get this please.
Another huge amount of research there Ruaridh. Is it my system here, or is there an intermittent drop out of audio - seems to be at "paragraph" changes (for want of a better description!). Sounds the mic has VOX turned on !
I hear that too. Some kind of intermittent dropping of audio frames in the recording. I sometimes hear a pop between these dropped frames of audio. I wonder what he is using to record the audio? Maybe it's a mismatch of sampling rate between the recorder and his editing software's audio settings. And the only way the editing software handles it, is by periodically dropping fractions of a second of audio to catch up again.
I find it strange that Avro levelled accusations against Rolls over the Darts. The engine had been in production since 1949, for the Viscount, and was the powerplant go to of choice for all the big twins of the period, the Herald, the Fokker F 27 and the NAMC YS11 and the Gulfstream I and many others! RM mis-spoke the 7482B was available in 1969 - not 1979. The RAF wanted the Dart Herald Military version but the Air Ministry would not entertain Handley Page as a contractor because it was not one of the Big Two groups of HSA or BAC. The undercarriage issue was to be resolved by it being located in fuselage blisters like the Belfast or Hercules which was a lot more straightforward than the rear kneeling 780 'solution'.
... When I was a kid, I was scared by creaky sound of Rolls Royce Dart. Year 1971, my dad once took mom, sister, and me from Phuket to Hatyai. They are a well known provine and a county in Thailand. .........
Afterthought, had Avro taken the basic 748, replaced the engines with more modern units and shorten the wingspan to a sensible length, they would have had a winner. Stretching it was just the perfectly wrong move at the time. This would have been the Saab 340 of the day.
Nothing nostalgic about these two planes. Both HS748 ATP were in service with SATA Air Azores in the Azores archipelago throughout the 80s (748) 90s and early 2000s (ATP) both planes were underpowered and especially the ATP performed very bad in the Azorean Winter crosswinds. We only noticed how underpowered it was when the Dash 8 Q200s and Q400S began to arrive. There are some nice landings and takeoffs of these planes on my channel.
748 was a wonderful aircraft we called it the budgie ATP was a disaster always getting grounded the leading edge anti ice ducts and the fire system were very very unreliable
Indeed, what happened to all these amazing manufactures, globalization and consolidation? Way way too much consolidation going on in every industry. What happened to competition? Governments way to willing to allow consolidation happen, or more likely politicians willing to let it happen for reasons..
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I worked at the Woodford factory where these were built and remember watching the first flight of the ATP.
Thanks for this, brought back memories.
I worked on the 146 line
Speaking of memories, this was the aircraft I flew on as a kid from Tri-State airport in Huntington WV to my dad's house in Virginia. My personal joke is you know your old when you flew on prop driven aircraft in your life.
@@davidphillips4958 Plenty of commercial prop driven aircraft working all around the world today, many with infants on them, including America...
@@davidphillips4958 not a very good joke is it
One thing to note is that of the total of 109 HS 748s manufactured by HAL for the Indian Air Force, 57 are still flying. While the type is scheduled for retirement in the near future, the HS 748 has had an exceptional service record, and very high reliability. Over 59 years of service (the first aircraft entered IAF service in April 1964), the type has seen a grand total of 7 crashes (of which 2 were due to mechanical issues, 2 were lost in mid-air collisions, and 3 were lost to pilot error). As such, the aircraft has put up an exceptional service history and legacy.
As a Canadian, I am somewhat conflicted with my admiration of the ATP. The ATP was a great looking aircraft, but like you said, it's design was old and the mighty Dash 8 was just too much to compete with.
Thanks for another great documentary!
First time I ever flew was in a Dan Air 748 Cardiff to Jersey in 1982.Disappointed this airline wasn't mentioned in the video as I remember them operating this aircraft well!
It's my belief their 748s were from Skyways who had been bought out by Dan Air, but don't quote me.
16:05 that is actor Jason Robards, playing Howard Hughes in the movie Melvin and Howard (1980).
Good catch. Jason Robards was nominated for the third time in five years for the same category, Best Actor in a Supporting Role. He won in both 77' and 78' but not in '80 for this role. He was only onscreen 7 minutes for that nomination in this movie. Oddly enough Mary Steenburgen won an Oscar for Best Supporting Actress Award in this film, mostly it seems for disrobing and no one else that year seemed to fit the category.
@@marcusdamberger yeah he was a great actor, didn't see enough of Mary Steenburgen though (career-wise that is). Time After Time was great.
As a young man, I flew a LAN Chile 748 from Santiago to Calama Chile in the early 70's. I remember how smooth and comfortable the plane was. Cheers
Love this! Please everybody note: it`s an Austrian Airlines 748 at Innsbruck Airport depicted at 17:36 , at a time when we still had some steam locos for the Arlberg rail route. Cheers from Linz!!
The ATPs days in service left are numbered.
They finished operating in the UK back in August 2022, where the aircraft was operating the EMA-ABZ route on a daily basis. They then finished operating in Europe a few months later, where the aircraft SE-MAP was operating a route on behalf of UPS from CGN-ZAG-BEG. The aircraft was taken off this route, and out of service when it was hit by a set of steps during a storm, and required extensive repairs before a special ferry flight back to MMX at 10,000ft was authorised due to pressurisation issues.
The remaining two aircraft still operating are SE-LGZ and SE-MAM. LGZ is operating on the OSL-JKG route on behalf of FedEx, and MAM is operating on behalf of Norwegian Post on the OSL-BOO-TOS rotation. Their days are numbered however, as the aircraft will be taken out of service in the next few weeks once the contracts are transferred across to new operators.
My advice to anyone who lives in Scandinavia and near the airports mentioned above would be to take photos of them while you can, as they're soon to be an extinct species!
I live close to MMX and have seen the ATP quite often over the years. West Air used to have a parts-frame at MMX, don't know if it's still there though (seems like it's gone, looking at Google Maps)
Sad to see them go, but so has the 146s of Malmö Aviation, err, BRA.
@@patriksonestad8208 SE-MAM ‘should’ be flying to MMX on it’s last flight on 10th Feb, if all goes well, arriving at 0525am.
Truly excellent production Ruairidh, thank you very much!
Latterly, being a resident of the IOM, the ATP was our 'ferry', and one of the truths you have not broached was the inherent instability of its airframe. It was shown to me first hand on the flight deck during a flight by the Captain, a friend who was an ex RAF Hercules pilot when he switched off the auto-pilot. The plane just stuck its nose to the right and would have skidded like that everywhere unless left boot was applied or autopilot re-engaged!!! The resultant drag/fuel consumption/lack of confidence by potential customers might well have been more to do with lack of orders than we will ever know!
Steve Rixon?
Yess, Perfect audio! Thank you! always appreciate a long episode, will settle in for this later in the evening :)
Throughout my career, I've flown quite a few types but, with a few thousand hours on this one, it holds a special place in my heart. My all time favorite.
I too have some memories of flying on Air North's HS748's. My longest flight with them was from Inuvik, NWT (CYEV) to Old Crow, YK (CYOC) to Dawson City, YK (CYDA) to Whitehorse, YK (CYXY) in northern Canada 🇨🇦
This video brings back happy memories of my first airline job flying the HS728 out of Liverpool with Emerald Airways. So many highly experienced airline pilots were working their last 5 years after having retired from the major carriers. My handling skills were at their best as the autopilots had been removed to save weight. Like a big Aztec it was a lovely aeroplane to fly and set many young pilots on their flying careers - including me ..
As always, a well researched and professionally written, edited and narrated job. Aerospace engineer course quality. Thanks for all you do.
I flew on Dan-Air HS748s a few times in early 80s, Bournemouth to Jersey, Channel Islands.
I worked for British Midland at EMA from 1988 to 91 and remember the ATP well, I always thought it looked really neat as I walked past it in the hanger. I worked in an Avionic workshop mainly on DC9 kit but I remember speaking to engine airframe chaps and recall them talking about engines running hot and de icing boot issues. It was alleged an ATP could fly from EMA to Heathrow on the same amount a DC9 would use to taxi from the apron to the end of the runway at EMA!
ATP - Always a Technical Problem
I remember the great food in the canteen, just adjacent to the hangar and training center. David Whittaker? also conducted the ground school for new crew on the ATP at that time. He didn't want the Viscount simulator to be destined for the scrap yard, so he made that his project to rescue the device. The DC-9 ground school was a blast too, very intensive study for the ARB exams! John Bowker was Chief Pilot for the ATP amongst other well know characters such as Ron Hardy (707) and beyond to the 737. Good old days indeed.
@@blackdoublezero Or, Alternative Transport Provider!
@@je7887 Good old days….really !! Riddled by a blame culture for everyone outside the golden circle, such as a Fleet Captain who went off the end of the runway at EMA in a Fk70….a Fk70 !!….and he got away with it, weeks after warning all pilots to improve , and a Pension Fund which went insolvent as soon as Bishop sold the company. Good old days indeed.
I worked in LHR line maintenance for BMA. We used to refer to the ATP as Antique Technology Perpetuated. They weren't hugely popular.
Remember flying on the 748 with Dan Air, NCL-DUB. Great little aircraft
I worked on the ATP and 748s aircraft in Blackpool airport for emerald airways as an engineer in 2007. It was still a good aircraft but loads of cannibalizing to keep them flying.
I worked there to as a Connie, happy days 👍
The cockpit fuselage is at Avros museum at Woodford.
Well worth a visit.
I can remember back in the late 80s that the German operator DLT used them. One day one of the 748s returned from a training session, and on touch-down the left elevator spar broke, and the complete elevator was hanging down an scraping te runway. There was BAe repair team in our Hangar to fix it. As far as I can recall, an Airworthiness Directive (AD) was issued after this event. Still in my memories is this remarkable sound of the Dart eniges. Love it.
Thanks for uploading
I never got to fly on it much to my regret, but what a beauty. Oh yay, BOAC, the the deathknell for every promising commercial airliner project to come out of Britain for 30 years. Damn you Speedbird!! Someones sales department wasn't om their game.
My era. I spent a lot of time flying on the 748 between SYY, INV and GLA as a kid, and had several cockpit visits, marvellous!
G-ARRV was the first aircraft I ever went inside. It was parked up derelict outside the hangers at Woodford. At one of the air shows it was a great (unofficial ) attraction for the kids to explore. We had to climb in through a window if I remember correctly.
Truly rermarkable information from historical, industrail, financial and technical point of views. Very well done !
Excellent piece.Well researched and written.Great job!
The ATP was one of the sexiest aircraft ever made. Sadly I have never got to fly on one. Thank you for the very informative episode
ATP Passenger aircraft flying again soon in Nairobi. Make arrangement.
@@victormwalo903 thank you for the heads up
Finally... thank you for fulfilling my request. Indian Air Force will soon replace these with Airbus C-295.
I flew as air crew on one of these back in the early 90's in northern Ontario. On takeoff you would monitor the prop hubs for power. We would normally see 360 psi. When you kicked in the water/meth injection for takeoff, the gauges would peg past 620 and you'd be sucked back in your seat. This thing was a truck with wings. If you could get it in the cargo door, it would go.
100k subs closing in!.. will be a very well deserved milestone! Keep up the great work! 👍
The "Budgie". My only choice of transport during my Sullum Voe contract. Many a Gordon's and Tonic levelled out the bumps.
Great vlog as always! In Norway there was only one 748. Fred. Olsen airlines. It later became a cal. for the Norwegian FAA. How about a vlog about the Fokker F-28. Scandinavia and Australia has been Fokker turf since day 1. Keep up the good work!
OUTSTANDING
Another fine and detailed analysis Ruairidh...
Well done for all the historical background and details.
James Hennighan
Yorkshire, England
My Grand-dad who worked @ Avro's Chadderton was heavily involved with the 748 project @ Hindustan Aircraft Limited out in India in the early to mid 60's
Fantastic video Ruairidh! I remember the ATP and HS-748 from days spent at EMA. The ATP was quite a cool looking aircraft but clearly not a match for the likes of ATR. Great video as always. 👍
Both the ATP and the ATR had one thing in common: the Pratt & Whitney Canada PW120 engine and Hamilton Standard six-blade propellers.
I never knew that the 748 was so successful and on the other hand, how unsuccessful the ATP was. I used to see so many ATPs as used by Manx Airlines I really thought they were a great success. Shame that BAe decided to stop producing civil aircraft as I was a big fan of the ATP and 146. Ah well, things move on.
Great narration as always 👍.
The Rolls-Royce Dart, the most famous engine of its kind ever built.
The Pratt & Whitney Canada PW120 series, a VERY close second.
Love all your videos, a great amount of research involved, the one video I would like to see you do is on the British Rail Class 37 and class 20 locos, still in use today and going strong, keep up the great work!
I remember as a young child flying from Portsmouth to the Channel Islands in these, and disliking them because they were really noisy, and being low wing, I always ended up not being able to see out, as I always ended up sitting over the wing!
At 24:30 you state that Air Winsconsin withdrew their aircraft in September 1993 but they were still operating for the airline in 1995. On 5th January 1995 I flew on N856AW operating from Chicago to Central Wisconsin as UA5033 and on 11th May 1995 I took N860AW in the opposite direction as UA5030
I've flown on both the 748/2 and the Andover, really liked both. Very good aircraft of the time.
I well remember the scream of the Mount Cook 748's taking off and landing here in Christchurch, very distinct engine note. Thanks mate NZCH
I was an avionics tech at Air Wisconsin from July 1991 to April 1992 when Air Wisconsin filed bankruptcy and many of us there were laid off.
The ATP was despised by maintenance personnel. We called it Advanced Turbo Problems or A Terrible Plane. It was plagued with fuel leaks and electrical problems. We had a number of winter write-ups that the entire EFIS system had failed in flight, not a good thing on a cold Wisconsin night in blowing snow and low visibility.
BAe determined that the issue was caused by the airplanes having been built with no electrical bonding straps between the flight control surfaces and airframe and no electrical bonding between the windscreens and fuselage. Static electricity built up and arced between those surfaces and the arcing caused the EFIS to shut down. My last days at Aur Whisky were spent installing bonding straps.
There were other electrical issues too. The ground power relay failed relatively often and could only be accessed by pulling out several rows of seats, then pulling up the carpet and removing a floorboard. That caused long flight delays at the terminal gates, which sure didn't make our passengers happy.
Flew in Andovers many times -- great and informative video
Never seen these planes or aircraft before but my Dad nearly flew them before he started flying helicopters. When he was in the army and knows a lot more about aviation as it’s his hobby. Interesting to know about how these airplanes were used before and after the war.
Brilliant video, I do hear the freight ATP's as they continue to ply their trade on internal UK flights from Scotland while working nights. Not sure if I will hear any let alone see any as I transition to working days working out doors
Their days are indeed numbered. You won't see any in the UK anymore. I work for West Atlantic who operates the world's remaining 2 ATPs in Freighter configuration. There are currently 2 operating in Norway, but this is soon to be zero once the contracts for the Norwegian post expire in the next few weeks.
Im sure I flew into Glasgow in the early 1990s from Stornaway in an ATP... weather was utter shat and there was a lot of windshear. I remember it otherwise as being a very good flight though.
Great presentation! Loved the budgy.
Great to see Manx Airlines make an appearance….👍🇮🇲
Thanks for the informative video! But i'm pretty sure that ATP's flew passangers until the mid 2010s for NextJet in Sweden and not ending passenger services in 2010.
Regarding HS 748 accidents, I seem to remember an HS 748 went off a runway in Scotland, killing some people in the 1980s. I saw the scrapped airframe when driving past a junkyard somewhere in the south on England and stopped to check it out and even managed to walk through the airframe. Memory fades, but that was what I was told at the time about the history of it..
This accident was coursed by the unoficial home made gust lock which had operated preventing the aircraft from lifting off the Runway.
@@kenward9501 Thanks Ken, I remember that now you mention it.
No autopilot staggers me. I should've thought it would be required standard equipment by the 1960s. I remember a local airline here in Washington State flew the HS748 in the 1980s.
There was also a Japanese version, the YS11, with 60 passengers capacity. Some of them were operated here in Argentina, by Austral Líneas Aéreas
The YS11 was a completely different aircraft.
@@grahamfigg5817 Ok, but they had the same engines, and looked pretty much alike. We used to call it "The japanese Avro". By that time Japaneses used to copy everything from Occident
Excellent video.
I used to fly on ATPs from Manchester to Belfast City and back fairly regularly in the late 90s. They were quite noisy but seemed OK from my point of view.
When I was a young man, back in the early 1990’s, and just starting out in my Professional Aviation Career….I was lucky enough to land my first Commercial Aviation job, flying the NOT “Ill feted” Handley-Page HPR-7 Dart Herald….Although not as successful as the Fokker F-27 or the Fairchild- Hiller FH-227, the Herald was designed as a Military Troop Carrier for the Malaysian Air Force….That’s why it had a large rear freight door and was built like a tank….Just compare the main undercarriage of the Herald to the F-27, you’ll soon see what I mean….The Herald also had the biggest of the Rolls-Royce Dart series Engines, the RR Dart 532-9 rated at 2500 SHP….Only 50 Heralds were built but, it was very successful as both a passenger carrier, and later on in the late 1980’s and 1990’s as a freighter aircraft and Royal Mail Carrier….It also had a major advantage over the F-27, with Thermal De-Icing, and not those useless rubber boots….It could melt off any ice build up and was a fantastic aeroplane to fly…..If a bit on the noisy side!
Great video! Please do the dash 8 at some point
While I'm sure they sold a few in the US the US carriers seemed to prefer the T34-powered CV580 conversions of the Convair 340/440.
The best aircraft HS 748 for all weather and kind of unprepared air strip like gravel and grass etc, having water methanol to boost engines in extreme hot temperatura , however very weak rate of climb in high ISA deviation temperature.
I would have liked to have a 748 as a private plane, too bad I may never get that chance.
I grew up with Twin Otters and HS 748B in Nunavut (NWT as it was known back then)
Somewhere I have bits and bobs from the production line. Happy times.
Great video...👍
Philippine Airlines in the 1970s and early 1980s operated both the HS748 and YS11.
i flew on air Illinois 1st 748 from SPI-STL they did order another 1 it was nice
Excellent video!👏🙂
16.20-Jason Robards in a film role as Howard Hughes.
The 748 had a high profile “crash” on takeoff from Stansted with the Leeds United team on board….
Sorry to correct you but Lympne is pronounced LIMM, I remember as a child watching the first 748s operated at Lympne by Skyways , those Dart engines were very shrill , I hated the sound but loved watching the 748s and old DC-3s at Lympne.
My grandfather worked there for a while as a couseage with a very posh uniform.
Would Avro been able to build Avro 730s and Avro 748s at the same time?
I flew on RNZAF Andovers many times during the 1980s.
I could see in a non-declined British Empire scenario, the UK and Canada using the ATP and DHC-8 to basically strangle the ATR-42 and Fokker 50 out of the market
The last passenger operations of the ATP wasn't in 2010, but in 2018 when NextJet went bankrupt
the ATP were maintenence nightmares for Air Wisconsin
Nice video, informative
Can you make a video taking about all 4 Thompson pacifics. The A1/1, The A2/1's, The A2/2's, and The A2/3's Please. Please respond when you get this please.
Lympne (near Ashford in Kent, and later renamed Ashford Airport) is pronounced 'Lim', not 'Limpney'
Yes I had to comment on that aswell 😊
Another huge amount of research there Ruaridh. Is it my system here, or is there an intermittent drop out of audio - seems to be at "paragraph" changes (for want of a better description!). Sounds the mic has VOX turned on !
I hear that too. Some kind of intermittent dropping of audio frames in the recording. I sometimes hear a pop between these dropped frames of audio. I wonder what he is using to record the audio? Maybe it's a mismatch of sampling rate between the recorder and his editing software's audio settings. And the only way the editing software handles it, is by periodically dropping fractions of a second of audio to catch up again.
Only know of the BAE ATP due to Sun air of scandinavia
I find it strange that Avro levelled accusations against Rolls over the Darts. The engine had been in production since 1949, for the Viscount, and was the powerplant go to of choice for all the big twins of the period, the Herald, the Fokker F 27 and the NAMC YS11 and the Gulfstream I and many others!
RM mis-spoke the 7482B was available in 1969 - not 1979. The RAF wanted the Dart Herald Military version but the Air Ministry would not entertain Handley Page as a contractor because it was not one of the Big Two groups of HSA or BAC. The undercarriage issue was to be resolved by it being located in fuselage blisters like the Belfast or Hercules which was a lot more straightforward than the rear kneeling 780 'solution'.
merveilleuse!
... When I was a kid, I was scared by creaky sound of Rolls Royce Dart. Year 1971, my dad once took mom, sister, and me from Phuket to Hatyai. They are a well known provine and a county in Thailand. .........
How do you pronounce your name? I've been watching your channel for a few years now, and I can't figure it out.
Roo ree mac vay
12:00 Is it normal for the starboard prop to turn clockwise, or is that just another case of Brits doing things backwards.
They do it in countries where they drive on the left hand side.
Look at the props on Airbus A400M 2 x clockwise and 2 x anticlockwise
Afterthought, had Avro taken the basic 748, replaced the engines with more modern units and shorten the wingspan to a sensible length, they would have had a winner. Stretching it was just the perfectly wrong move at the time. This would have been the Saab 340 of the day.
Strange as it may seem, Lympne Airport was pronounced 'Lim'.
Air Wisc ATPs went to United Feeder Service operated by Trans states airlines
LIAT was well known for the 748
Air B.V.I. too
Didn't Winkle Brown call this a dog?
I somehow managed to end up working on 748s; what a pain in the ass they were in every sense of the word.
Uk aerospace firms were experts at shooting themselves in the foot…
Lucky BAe didn’t try to make an AEW version to match the Nimrod….
1600 hp for a turboprop engine in 1960 was very weak. Notice how 3 years later they were making twice the horsepower (3200 hp). That's more like it.
Nothing nostalgic about these two planes. Both HS748 ATP were in service with SATA Air Azores in the Azores archipelago throughout the 80s (748) 90s and early 2000s (ATP) both planes were underpowered and especially the ATP performed very bad in the Azorean Winter crosswinds. We only noticed how underpowered it was when the Dash 8 Q200s and Q400S began to arrive. There are some nice landings and takeoffs of these planes on my channel.
ATP Another Technical Problem
I was just even going to say, too: Another Technical Problem
Aerospace Taking the Pisss?
Oooh, that's an Australian Christmas bloody burn 🥵 💯
Ancient Technology Perpetuated
748 was a wonderful aircraft we called it the budgie ATP was a disaster always getting grounded the leading edge anti ice ducts and the fire system were very very unreliable
17:15 Chewie, is that you?
Unbelievable, Britain created so much incredable aircraft, and we ended up with Boeing and Airbus, what went wrong ?
Indeed, what happened to all these amazing manufactures, globalization and consolidation? Way way too much consolidation going on in every industry. What happened to competition? Governments way to willing to allow consolidation happen, or more likely politicians willing to let it happen for reasons..
The British disease:
Government and management incompetence
Gud vid 👍👍👍
Was there ever a more poison challis than being the "DC3 replacement'.
B-52 replacement?
I never saw that aircraft at all in my life
Not Howard Hughs but a famous actor, (name escapes me soz) great video though as ever.
The ATP's biggest issue for me: looks too much like the SAAB 340/2000
The British were helping the Swedish with their turboprop airliners at that time. Once the ATP was axed Saab went on to finish the plane on their own.
@@tumakbaluk really?
33:59
aka the 'British Empire'...