Tesla Reveals 16,000 Ton Giga Press Is Coming!
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- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
- Tesla Reveals 16,000 Ton Giga Press Is Coming!
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The upside of many smaller components is repairability. As you reduce part count you increase the likelihood that a car will be totaled in even minor collisions.
Get ready for extreme insurance rates to go with the extreme prices....
THIS!
This will drive costs up, not down. Particularly insurance costs will grow tremendously. This is bad overall for the consumer.
There is opportunity for an auto maker to build very reliable vehicles with the older technology.
You should send a résumé to Tesla
The parts that would be damaged are bolt on. There are plenty of sacraficial pieces. If the damage is extensive enough to damage the casting, it would total a normal car anyway. Tesla also makes it possible to repair castings now as well.
GM installed an oversized (for the time) press that was taller than the building could accommodate. Could not raise the ceiling without messing up a lot of other things like the overhead crane. Ended up digging a deep and wide hole in the floor and installed the press in the hole.
I worked mostly one of two large presses for molding whole body attempts. The first was molding Camaros and Firebirds. But the tonnage they suggest is not nearly enough by about 9 or 10X
More like 100,000 Ton
I saw a tesla semi in person and chatted up with the driver. Those things r the real deal 🤙🏽
🤣 What was it hauling, chips?..
I predict these casting will make the vehicle very easy to total, which will jack insurance rates.
This will definitely happen. Cars across the board have become less modular and assembled with larger, non-serviceable components that makes repair more expensive and less feasible.
Teslas are already virtually impossible to insure where I live. 5k per year, even for people with a decent driving record.
@@dil6969 I think they did this by design, to squeeze more money out of the consumer.
they're not using sand cores,, they're not using sand casting. they'll use the isogrid shapes to reduce mass increase strength. the 16 kt press will be used to making door apertures and roof structure.
the molds are multiple pieces, making changes is trivial, most are cast iron, and they csn swap out die sections, Tesla has inhouse die teams who have massive machine tool resources at hand.
Tesla is jus a USER of this press ! In case of an accident, curious to see the cost of repair if and when possible !
@clitisswood7330 Like any other huge machine, such as the massive presses, in use for many decades. The largest in the US was down for a couple of years for a rebuild. The entire machine is not likely to "fail", there are many many sub assemblies which will be repaired on the spot. The likelihood of a massive failure of the frame or the articulated press hinges, etc is HIGHLY unlikely. And that is why they have more than one of any given system.
@@The_DuMont_Network I am speaking of a Tesla car accident ! As for the presses, one of the biggest in the USA is from Germany, taken at the end of WW2 and used by Nasa fro the space program !
In Arizona, we learned to supercharge our Tesla in the morning or at night when it’s cooler. Charging it when it’s 110 outside might ruin the battery faster than it already is.
Should be cooled with glycol or sommin don’t membr
@@sparkysho-ze7nm It is liquid cooled, but the battery packs don’t like anything that isn’t room temperature. Kinda hard to work with if the coolant is already over 100 degrees.
I would want confirmation, as Tesla preheats batteries on the way to the supercharger. I try to keep my batteries at about 50%, and it appears I have had no drop in range since doing so.
@@CR67 I always thought it be best to drain the battery pack to its furtest possible, and then recharge, and they (back then) said, this will extend your battery lifetime. So this has changed?
@@TheBarretNL Different battery technology has Different characteristics. You are right with NiHM but not with our current lithium batteries. The recommendation currently is to charge up to 80% for daily use, and to keep the batteries close to 50%, and avoid going below 20%.
I think that new press is indeed impressive. But the way Tesla makes cars also makes them expensive to repair or impossible in some cases. On Wham Bham Tesla cam, you see Teslas getting doors messed up and they cost 10 to 20k. FOR A DOOR? What do think the cost is if you needed the same thing replaced on a Camry, definitely not close to that. Batteries are as low as 25k, a new engine for a Camry 15 ish. Now with the new truck and the new single mold car, you’d have one minor accident and it’s completely totaled. Talk about not being a long term car
That is the goal ! Planned obsolescence well disguised !
And if your insurance end up totalling out the car, you better hope you are not under water in what you owe versus what its worth. Otherwise you're going to be paying the bank still for a vehicle you no longer own.
@@johnc.9133 Damn you're right. That's horrible. Apparently you have to have 'gap insurance' for that. But yeah man that could absolutely bankrupt someone
Definitely don't want to skip out on GAP insurance 😂
Gap only covers 75% so that person may still be upside down in the vehicle.
Please know that any tractor trailer going down the highway weighs 80,000 Lbs INCLUDING the product being shipped. The product can weigh around 45,000lbs and that is fully loaded. The empty tractor trailer weighs about 35,000lbs.
Sixteen thousand miles in 48 hours! Wow! I knew the Cybertruck was impressive, but averaging over 300 mph is mind-boggling.
Reading a script without thinking about what it means is a weakness that so many presenters seem to be displaying now.
Edit: also, the 80,000 pounds does not refer to what is “in the trailer.” It refers to the total weight of the truck, trailer and payload.
Correction, it was 1,600 miles not 16 thousand
@@SteveBueche1027seeing it was your error you could just delete it, right?
Yes, 80k in the trailer is wrong. USDOT has authorized class 8 vehicles that are battery powered to exceed the normal 80k total vehicle gross weight by an additional 2 thousand pounds to compensate for the weight of the batteries. Otherwise, fossil fuel vehicles are capped at 80k pounds gross weight. Exceeding these limits can only be accomplished by special permits.
Video DID slip and say 16,000 miles, so the little burn is valid.
@@SteveBueche1027try to insert correction on-screen at 6:21
Gotta say, if Pepsi can do 300,000 miles per year, that’s a good start to using BEV truck to advantage.
The best use of that press would be to put all Teslas through it as they come off the line.
Right after we put all the trolls through it.
With the owners in them..
If large parts of the car are assembled separately then joined together there will be components that can't be serviced or replaced without taking it a long way apart.
Indeed. But on the upside it'll have far less failing parts, so if some part fails it might mean the car has become extremely worn down.
Itll be a lot more reliable tho
@@jorgeavelar98 Until what? Suppose your son plays a music file that burns out the amp. Can you get that subchassis out without removing the whole back half of the car? Without taking the sides off? Do you live in a world where things never just fail without apparent cause? Shit happens.
@@tactileslutWhy would you attached your amplifier underneath the underbody? Just put them in the dash and design an access panel.
@@melodyogonnaIn a car crash, it could also mean you could not repair the car, or it would be too expensive. Insurance companies will love it
TESLA Gigi Press of 16,000 t are for Model 2 which is a MUCH SMALLER car. Intention is for a SINGLE PIECE frame for both the FRONT and BACK . Expect a FRONT drive with a Shorter BACK side ! ( Hatchback ). Thus saving time, dimension errors and easy assembly. Interesting time to see how TESLA solved a few RELATED issues of large single piece molds. However My TRUST in TESLA to innovate and solve issues ............ REMAIN !!!!
And the unions are to blame for the BIG THREE TO BLOCK TECHNOLOGY> MAKING CARS AND TRUCKS MORE EXPENSIVE > Just like labor unions did to drive manufacturing out this country..... HELLO DUMB ASS CRATS!!
Tesla (IDRA) 5700 t is using for production back and front frame of Y model. I worked on that die casting machine. I think, succesfully production big parts is possible by High Pressure Die Casting process. Issue of Tesla is thermoregulation of mould, which is complicated for supply and repair, and is too against fundamental knowledge of physical metalurgy. Here is using mostly failure couplungs Stucci and easy cheaper thermocontrol unit IECI. Many thermoregular channels are full of watter (under pressure than 7,5 bar) at the time filling melted Aluminium alloy. Right solution is using central jet cooling system with hot air blower. But here is no area for improvement due to people at manufacturing engeneering. Result is every day leakage and blowing hot water to cavity by casting. That make systematic failure on parts as crack and marks. That is not possible at Volvo or Toyota. Next issue is flashing due to bad spotting dies and production without stable die setting parameters and that is accordance missing certification and standardisation accord. IATF 169 49. Tesla has perfect design of cars, but very bad manufacturing engeneering, tooling and production.
What happened to your language skills? (Or were you home schooled?)
P.S.: What is a "Gigi Press"?
16,000 miles in two days?
I think you mean 1,600 miles in two days 😂
At 6.25 you say 48 hours, 16,000 miles and 80,000 lbs of cargo. The Tesla semi would have to travel non stop 333 MPH for 48 hours. That’s impossible. No wonder no one believes it. Now 1,600 miles is an average speed of 33 MPH. Now 5 charging stops say it can travel about 300 miles on the charge. Assuming 5 charges. Now if it was already fully charged that is 6 charges. Which puts it around 266 miles per charge. A conventional long haul diesel truck could make that same 1,600 in less than half that time.
He meant 1,600. Watch the video, at 7:55 it shows the mileage.
What would the fuel cost be for a 1,600 mile run using diesel? Yes you pay the driver for more hours but save the cost of the fuel. Also, in the future the Tesla trucks will be driverless and many places around the world will have an outright ban on diel trucks. Driverless electric is the way to go in perhaps 20 years.
You're the best as always!!
Well done!
I worked with a 25 ton press . There aren’t many powerful presses but I can make them when I need more.
Great news. Any progress on battery fire hazard?
1:42 Triumph TR3 assembly line? Fun to see that!
These trucks are being run under ideal conditions during this test, and while it works well here, in at least 70% of conditions it will proof inferior.
so 30% can be covered by electric, and 70% by diesel. sounds good for me
@@Gromwelliskosounds good? You do realise how much energy is required for a megacharger? 🤣
A Super C Rv chassis would would be a good platform for the Tesla Semi 😊
That new platform looks like a Citroen
What place would you be delivering Gatorade to and pickup water? A lot of logistics operations are one way. It's nice in theory to always carrying useful load when traveling but a lot of deliveries are taking things from a central location and spreading it out to satellite locations. Think stores, countries with big export surplus or ports.
A warehouse.
The idea of the test is to make it "worst case". If the semi was driving with no load inside than it would see a fantastically unrealistic performance. Yes, a full-time 80K load is unrealistic so in real life the trucks will do MUCH better.
An hour is still incredibly long for a charge time. Considering a diesel semi only requires 5-10 minutes at the pump, you still see lines at truck stops. Now imagine waiting 1 hour, you would need to have all parking spots at the truck stop equipped with their own chargers.
Exactly, semi's will never work
So how many tons press we need for same process of manufacturing an semi ?
A semi is not a unibody frame. It's a ladder frame with a cab ontop
Comprehensive report, well done, thank you.
Tesla new manufacturing technique would make affordable EVs practical for everyone and open up a huge new market. Very impressive tech. Keeps ahead of the competition.
Unless they drop in price by half, Never going to be affordable for average joe factory worker!
I doubt it will reduce costs to the consumer by that much, If I had to take a guess 10-20% max, Hope I am completely wrong.
Problem with one piece moulds is if you have an accident, How do you repair it?
Basically a write off and adds to more waste/landfill.
Ever heard about recycling?
@@ShaneMcGrath.
@@ShaneMcGrath. You never repair a frame either. If your frame is twacked most body shops won't touch it due to liability.
@@ShaneMcGrath.The moulds - dies are steel why would you landfill them?
BEV's are getting cheaper, faster.
Imagine where they'll be in a few years.
We need to also bear in mind that we pay more in UK, US and Europe than China. They won't pay big money there are dozens of cars under 20k from many brands.
Check out the SAIC, gm Wuling jv car. The huge seller that pays gm about $14 each but they claim all the numbers when Barra speaks.
@@andrewsaint6581 because you can't really fix them so there usually end up in landfills, landfills are cheaper and write-offs
One possible drawback for the consumer, if the vehicle in involved in a crash damaging the chassis it could mean that an insurance payout would have to pay out for a complete car replacement. This in turn will drive up premiums for Teslas even further.
they are turning into apple.
Excellent and interesting video. But...lol...with what amounts to almost a one piece car body, insurance companies won't touch them because any collision means a scrapped car doesn't it? If Tesla is talking about that, I'd love to know what they say.
Super!
AFAIK the sand is used to create the reusable metal mold that will be used to cast the Aluminum parts.
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5-80% in an hour is only 0.75C rating, something a lot of chemistries can handle.
For trucks? Really?
@@Alarix2465-80% is the same if its a truck or a car. The battery cell that goes from 5-80% doesnt know its in a truck or a car. In a fast charging car every cell can go from 5-80% in 20-30 min so the Tesla semi is actually semi-fast charging. The only bottleneck is the cable and chager. Electric Ferries often have several cables to solve this.
@@Alarix246 the chemistry does not care what vehicle it's inside. It's other stuff that need to scale with the size of the battery pack but the chemistry is unaffected. It's mainly limited by the c rating and thermal.
Exactly, powertoolbatterys do empty to full in half an our, about 2c, and they are not liquidcooled.
@@ingo_8628 They dont last that long. Guess the Semi fast charging is calibrated for batterylife.
Great, they reduce BOM and assembly cost, but will it reflect customer costs MSRP?
Yes, that is the goal, the new car is said to MSRP at $25K
Considering Ford is losing tens of thousands per F150 lightning and Tesla is now making about $8k profit per car, I’d say the efficiencies are already working and will continue to be lower prices as they continue to innovate.
Cool ❤
I like living near the world's 2nd largest open pit copper mine. It's got a carbon foot print you can't imagine.
It's well be a really good idea to invest in insurance companies.
Those tiny two wheel drive cars are going to be totaled every winter. With the built-in crumple zones, and the wheel break away so it rolls under the body... yeah those will be ice skating.
What saves them is that the computer is driving the car. It is smarter than 99% of all human drivers and will not let the wheels slip. It will also keep the car in-lane and apply the brakes automatically. Yes, I know YOU are that 1% super-skilled driver that can outperform a computer but 99% of the people on Earth are not like you. Also, autopilots will obey speed limits, actually stop at stop signs, and don't get drunk.
The Gigapress casting machines are not Tesla's technology. They're made by an Italian company.
For people saying that casting large parts on the tesla will result in a higher number of totaled cars, the idea with a large casting system is that you're producing just the central structure in one piece. Everything surrounding this (doors, front crumple zone, rear crumple zone, etc.) is replaced accordingly in the event of a crash that effects a respective area. Rarely will the central subframe be effected and require replacment in the event of a crash.
The giga press is really good. However, what is the repairability of those parts?
Prentty much none
Moulded in crush cans.
Very often mentioned.
But not by negative mainstream news for obvious reasons.
In a crash they cut them off and bolt on special replacements.
If casting damaged that crash would have totalled any car.
Bearing in mind that the top four places in NHTSA crash ratings are all Teslas.
Tesla can also insure their cars so - uniquely, they understand what it costs if a Tesla driver smashes his car.
They have a two way process. Insuror and factory.
Do a bit more of your own research please.
@@andrewsaint6581 Didn't need to research knowing you'd answer lol
Tesla is going FSD. When human will not drive very less or no crash.
@@arslanshakoor5248 I enjoy driving and I won't use fsd
Turkiye could be a good place for strategic placement of a gigafactory.
Rumour mill keeps grinding
Hows that roadster coming along?
You know, the one customers paid for in full in 2018.
Shh 🤫 Elon thinks everyone has forgotten about it. Musk, the biggest fraudster alive.
Surely what these trucks with huge surface area needs are pv cells all over them?
Teşekkürler.
Electrifying our long haul trucking industry would put so much strain on our power grid that we'd have to start building nuclear power plants non-stop for the next 20 years. A truck stop full of 1 mega watt chargers is no joke.
“Is coming” is Tesla’s second name.
I'm still waiting on a regular family pickup truck ..like honda ridgeline or larger for 25.000 to 30.000 in price..
❤
👍
Matchbox we’re genius and years ahead in the 80s 😊
👍👍
Who makes the press?
hi
Sand for molds is not new all engine are made this way.
Wow! THIS is the future…..
The problem with these gigacasts are the collision repair. Makes great sense from a production standpoint but pushes the $$$ problems to repairs.
You can't have your cake and est it too. Change is inevitable.
@@donfields1234 The innovation is awesome. I have owned three Teslas. But my insurance keeps going through the roof because they are expensive to repair. No tickets either.
Innovation would be Tesla solving the repairability too.
Are these things going to be repairable after an accident?
No, it is probably wasted completely. Like any LED tv, smartphone, coffee machine or watch. After all, we live in a throwaway society where products only seem to have to be recyclable.
Yes, It is very much like repairing a conventional unibody steel car. They cut off the damage and weld in a replacement. They never replace the entire casting.
So, if they make a full car body as a single detail, does it mean that if I get into a minor car accident, I need to replace the entire car?
No.
@@andrewsaint6581 Yes.
@@vs6300 "minor accident" was the question.
"No" is the answer.
Remember what they said about it on investor day?
@@andrewsaint6581investor day 🤣 More like fraud day by Elon..
@@hobo1704 That's quite an assertion.
What fraud was committed?
What are your sources to back up your claim?
Which legal firm are you using?
gm's Mary Barra CEO and Mark Royce President have each sold more shares in the last three years than they currently hold in gm.
Not only are they selling they're in charge of the share buyback that pumps the price when they do sell.
Source - sec filings.
Not fraud at all, obviously.
Wait until insurance gets done pricing these vehicle's what a great save. Just passing on the cost to the customer great job
Couldn’t you cut and weld a new part?
Recyclable vehicles, sounds good.
Bobby WTH …..Puttin up steel Sept 15?????? First clear land level to road grade put it n storm drag n allowing electrical service entrance conductors , pour a slab THEN YA CAN ERECT STEEL BEAMS can’t do that first
Storm drain
Up until now one of the slowdowns in load delivery was driver fatigue. There are restrictions to the length of driving times for drivers. Now if that rest period is combined with battery charging should the driver still be paid because of that equipment's requirement even though he could log it as a rest period?
The DOT has several separate parts of the driver's time. On Duty, On Duty Not Driving, Sleeper Berth and Off Duty. Charging might be the second category. Check with the DOT.
Don’t forget autonomy.
Don’t forget the drivers are less fatigued in a tesla SEMI.
Why wouldn't charging be a break?
Filling up a truck with diesel is messy, smelly and time consuming.
25 years as a Transport manager UK.
You have to stand there.
You are working.
Plug in an ev then your time is your own. Toilet, coffee, shopping or resting.
That is a break.
You obviously know how the game is played. Thank you.
The TOTAL permitted weight of the tractor, trailer AND cargo is 82000 pounds, not 80000 pounds of cargo.
80000 total for all none electric
Yes, he said it wrong. Maybe his thoughts were that the battery pulls 82.000 pounds across the country.
Think about this what is the heaviest weight in th tractor?????? 10 wheels 2 axels 3 62 kg motors or fat azz trucker w white doughnut in his beard ???
@@RUclipsviolatesmy1stamendment Correct. I presumed we were not discussing NON electric tractors.
In Michigan you can load to 160,000 pounds with the proper axles on your trailer. The semi combination is licensed to those amounts.
The statement 80,000 pounds in the trailer is INCORRECT !!
Bondo works fine.
Great news prevails CONGRATULATIONS Turkey India Mexico Germany Austin Shanghai Fremont an people an future generations
Not 80,000 lbs in the trailer. it would be something between 40-50K lbs.
80K is total allowed by law, including truck itself.
So. Wait a minute, i thought it's an Italian invention, the Gigapress ?
CAST, not press
Nice to see more robots working instead of people lol
Very good video.
Most diesel semis have a range of over 800 miles already so they would only need one fuel stop and that's only about 15 minutes
BUT- diesel in CA is $5 a gallon PLUS the cost of DEF. supercharging for a semi is around $1.50 a gallon? no def fluid, very little usage of brakes (regen breaking). when a tesla semi climbs a steep grade it eats up energy- just like your diesel rig eats up fuel. but when it goes downhill- your diesel rig eats up BRAKES- the tesla DOES NOT- it uses that down hill to 'refill the tank'. add all those factors up? internal combustion- even the BEST of the diesel rigs? are doomed. also- those rigs are GAURANTEED for 1 million miles. even cat won't match that warranty. if you're an owner / operator and you're bidding against a guy with one of these rigs- he could easily cut his price to 10% lower than yours- and still make more money than you.
it all comes down to money, will it be cheaper or faster to ship your goods in a diesel or ev semi? time lost at refueling can be made up in other ways, and refueling in an ev, being that it uses electricity, which is everywhere, opens up a lot more refueling possibilities and scenarios, including on-site charging (of the pickup and/or delivery point)
recovering fuel on a downhill slope? GAME CHANGER. fleet owned charging stations that can fuel up at 12 to 15 cents per kwh? also a HUGE win. that would be like getting your diesel fuel for 45 cents per gallon & never needing brake jobs (regen braking) if tesla gets approval for their semi's to operate in convoy mode? the 500 mile range / recharge will be moot- one driver moving 2 loads? oh yeah. game changer. . @@teklife
Deisel is dead
@@donfields1234 not for a long time, sadly, because they keep them things on the roads for ages, and then when they're totally exhausted and retired, they get sold to the philippines where they continue running here, now hyper-polluting, and will never stop running here, no matter how smoky and filthy, no one seems to mind that here. in fact they seem to love it.
by the way, it's spelled diesel ;-)
25K vehicle platform ?
Really ?
Wasn't the cyber truck to be 40K and it turned out to be twice that ?
See it to believe until there....
Wait until there are gigapress to build weapons/warships/tanks
🤣
We’re gonna need more kids in the cobalt mines
What mountain ranges did they test the Tesla semis on? You cant say they can go toe to when you havent driven them through mountain ranges. The US isnt a flat country
Mountains give the electric truck a huge advantage over diesel. Diesel trucks use a lot of fuel to go up hills. The electric truck uses "fuel" to go uphill too. But the electricity is recovered when the truck goes downhill. The electric brakes re-charge the battery. So if the truck goes down the same grade it drives up it is almost (80%) like driving on a flat road.
@chrisalbertson5838 almost like 80%? Where did you get this number from? And if it's so effortless for the Tesla semi to go up mountains why not show it loaded going up mountains?
Don't drop Tesla stock. Because you wanna go by a bigger building or a bigger press
sand casting --- invented in 2k years ago?
Glad to hear their semis are doing well!
And other car companies, take note.
ya they all said it won't work ..
All other car companies are toast. Its like Apple and phone. Motorola and million other are dead adn buried. The only question is who is going to be the android for Tesla ?
I have to admit that first…I thought, all these comments from Tesla Fanboys, they really believe in the bs they are writing. But then I found out…that all these hilarious accounts and their comments belong to one, large comedy giga factory. The name of the factory: Tesla.
@@BOEINGMAX-nn6ku then don't a Tesla. 🤷♂️
1M for a mold is nothing comparing how many parts and resorses they replace
Rumor has it that it will be hand delivered by Tennessee Ernie Ford.
(Who gets that reference? 😅🤣😂)
Tesla doesn’t need to worry about being unionized, these robots just keep running under any condition.
They could start making small aircraft this way. i.e. via Giga casting. US military could be interested also.
We own a y, bought before price drop, 72k. 😢. We love it. However, Unitizing the entire body means these cars are uninsurable. One accident either major or minor means no repair, just replace. Expensive. However, Tesla service is so bad, replacing autos would ease up their workload and improve performance…..lol. Tesla competitors should hit Tesla hard for high insurance cost.
...or.... Tesla could offer collision insurance. Essentially it would be like an extended warranty. They could probably charge lower premiums because they would be replacing cars out of their existing stock.
Just to inform you Turkey has changed its name and its now named Türkiye pronounced similarly just with a "ah" and the end of its original pronunciation :)
Every cast iron engine block and head is cast this way.
Spain 🇪🇦 would make much more sense for a new gigafactory
Just give us the flying car we already know the tech exists
bom Turq🎯
I don't see any appetite to have conversations about cost and difficulties as part of repairing these vehicles.
Borden Extruders Back in the Day From Bags of Borden Catalyst Added Dry Ice to the Mid Stage Mix Accelerating Release Times Keyed in with A Radio Frequent sizer to Assure Q.C. Building A Lessor Priced Point Vehicle With A Lot of Curb Appeal Seems Like it Would Be A Hit . Semi Market has Room to Run Literally for Different Power Packs Electric and H. CA Got Grant for H. to Port Transportation .
Tesla can't see the problem for the customer.
Imagine the cost of replacing the gigacasted huge part. Uninsurable cars
Tesla found the One Piece? Oh... Giga Castings.
elon hired a water-tank-welding company to make SpaceX's first rockets. It looked like a wrinkled pickle and would have flown several feet before turbulencing itself to pieces 😂
what is going to happen to the insurance rate ? total loss for minor accidents.
I think its pronounced "air-dough-juan"
In a car crash, it could also mean you could not repair the car without it being Giga expensive. Insurance companies will love it.
been in 3 crashes at less than 35 mph, insurance rated 2 of them as "totaled," even though I drove both away. neither was a tesla. what's the difference?
@@danchan5028 Good question. However it would be interesting to see statistics