I really think Frank Miller was full of himself for thinking Superman and Batman can never be friends because of their differences in personalities. It's like he's never met an actual human in his life.
+GeneralKenobi75 The DKR sequel was even worse than the first book. And the third is literally called 'The Master Race'. Racism much? On top of that, Miller was the yahoo that wrote the Molotov throwing, child kidnapping, forcing-said-child-to-eat-rats, 'goddamn' Batman mess that was All-Star Batman
***** Which shows Frank Miller doesn't get Superman. Superman would never align himself with any one nation to become their own private enforcer. This is just Miller thinking Superman is that weak willed. He'd keep going around being Superman no matter what the government said, and if he really thought the Earth didn't need him anymore, he'd leave to protect another planet. Yeah it's an elseworlds story, but it's not one I can get behind. Also, Superman would never break Oliver's arm, that is completely out of character for him. They never act like they used to be old friends at all. Unlike in Kingdom Come where differences and tension has driven them apart, but they still show respect for one another because of old friendship. Kingdom Come was a much better elsesworlds story featuring this theme.
DKR was, in general, Miller insisting that do to differing personalities, Bruce and Clark could never actually get along. Which is hokey because the very reason they get along so well is BECAUSE their personalities are so different. Bruce keeps Superman grounded, and Clark helps shine a little light and hope on to Batman. They balance.
***** Superman or Batman story the characters need to act in character. Not paint the other as completely incompetent to make the other seem like the better hero. That's what Miller does whenever he features Batman and Superman in the same story. Superman would have better control than that, he doesn't just suddenly injure someone from losing control. If he did his childhood would have been a lot rougher. Still seems like a complete bashing of Superman's character. He'd let Batman do what he does because they do the same thing. Also, Miller's interpretation of Batman is just as bad because while Batman knows he needs to work outside the law, he's never been happy about that fact and never embraces it. That's why his alliance with Jim Gordon is so vital, so he can work with the police. Now Miller portrays him as a violent anarchist and something of a fascist, when Batman's only reason for working as a "vigilante" is to restore enough order so people like Gordon can do their job. The only reasonable thing in this comic that puts Superman and Batman at odds is the killing of the Joker, which is still hokey because Superman would want to find out more of what happened before just confronting Bruce. Especially not for the government. I guess we will.
Lindsay Ellis is one of very few RUclips critics worthy of respect. I think she actually throws the Nostalgia Critics and Jeremy Jahns of this world into stark relief. She's knowledge, articulate, knowledgeable, witty and very knowledgeable. RUclips has allowed the artistry and talent usually involved in great film criticism to be sidelined in favour of easy, cheap fluff - Lindsay, and those like her, are the solution.
great, I agree and all that, but I want to know if you wrote this sentence sober: "She's knowledge, articulate, knowledgeable, witty and very knowledgeable"
I will say, my favorite part of Civil War was when Tony Stark goes to visit the X-Men to try and recruit them and Emma Frost responds with "Where were you when our babies were burning?" Especially, after in Issue #1, they send a Sentinel to watch the X-Men while they help with the Stamford Disaster. This part spoke to me as a black man as all those times where tragedies, injustices and transgressions against the Black Community tend to be largely ignored (justified by such statements as "if you had just obeyed the law, you wouldn't be dead" or "where were his parents? Why didn't they teach him better?" or "By drawing attention to racism, you're making it worse!" when anyone dares to speak up about it), but when something happens in White America, to quote Eminem "Middle America, NOW it's a tragedy, NOW it's so sad to see, an Upper Class City..."
+Davethe3rd That bit was a kick to the stomach. I might not like Emma Frost, but damn if she won't do anything for the children she has in her care and Tony's hypocrisy obviously infuriated her. As for the second part of your comment, I can't begin to imagine what it must be like, but the injustice and willful ignorance of this world make me so angry. White people (myself included) are so blinded by privilege that we can't even see past our own realities. No sociological imagination, no empathy. I can't speak to the realities of the United States, either, but I know that here in the United Kingdom the biggest divide is between classes (not that there isn't huge amounts of racism, because there are). One working class person's mistakes are suddenly the fault of the entire working class community, whereas if a middle class person does something wrong, they're an anomaly. The structures of privilege are terrifying. (I hope I didn't come off as insensitive. I didn't want to seem insensitive by ignoring the second part of your comment, but I don't want to offend, either.)
I'm not very up to date on anything related to heroes fighting each other or the x-men, but to me that sounds very much like the wise advice "let's stay out of the fucking drama" :)
For some reason, I think mutants were exempt from the law and the X-Men stayed impartial, largely. Wolverine does have a series where he hunts down Nitro, the living bomb, the mutant who can blow himself up, who starts the whole incident at Stamford.
Happy to see you're uploading more, Lindsay~ I missed hearing your witticisms and your take on topics! As someone who's definitely feeling the superhero movie fatigue, it's a little refreshing to see the source of what's coming up in the movies.
What a lot of comic book writers never understood is that what makes crossovers work is the interactions between the heroes... And no, that doesn't mean them fighting, although fighting can indeed be a good way for the heroes to play off each other. Look at the 90's Justice League tv show. A lot of comedy and drama was milked out of the superheroes just talking, cooperating, feuding over disagreements, and, as an extension of the latter, overcoming their issues and growing as characters.
Ever since I saw the trailer I've been worried about it. My main fear is that it will take itself way too seriously like Man of Steel did and none of the characters will have any spark and that I won't care about any of them. Also, the way that Wonder Woman is shown in the trailer just makes it look like she's there for cameos and fan squee. The reason I'm worried about it is that if the movie doesn't do well then we'll NEVER get a Wonder Woman movie. DC is utterly terrified of doing a female superhero movie. Heck, even Marvel hasn't done a Black Widow movie (which is utter nonsense, in my opinion). If either of these studios actually get off their terrified behinds and MAKE a female superhero movie, I will watch it in the theater just to make a point.
When you stop and think about it, it seems like superheroes fight each other more frequently than supervillains do. Think about it: get a bunch of superheroes in a room together and it's usually either the end of the world or they're having a massive fight for some dumb reason. Get a bunch of supervillains in a room and they could be doing just about anything - drawing up their next big scheme, playing cards, swapping stories, generally just hanging out or having fun on a crime spree. Occasionally we see minor spats over pecking order or for alpha position, but most of the time it doesn't take more than a punch in the face to settle. Hell, if I lived in one of these two fictional universes and had superpowers, and I had to pick between being a hero or a villain, I'd probably be a villain just because the villains make better company.
"That's why evil is winning. When two good creatures disagree, they assume the other to be evil. But two evil creatures won't assume each other to be good. They just... disagree."
I dunno, I oddly can recall at the top of my head six occasion of poker parties in the Avengers History. (Side note: Supposedly Spidey is never invited because his Spider sense count as telepathy)
Hopefully she talks about both the theatrical version (which was terrible) and the Ultimate Edition (which was overall pretty good though with still some clear faults). Good way to show that studios need to not make incredibly short-sighted decisions just because it might make them a little more money.
No, the ultimate edition is still pretty crap, only resolving the choppy editing and introducing even more problems to the script in general. I've read the summary of the new scenes, all it adds is further confusion over why people would think Superman is responsible for any of these acts and how Lex Luthor seems to know enough about the Bat Brands to use them. Creating more plot holes with your writing still doesn't make your movie good.
To explain some things: In the theatrical version, when the people are killed in the desert the movie makes it look like everyone thinks Superman flew all the way out there to kill them with bullets, which is stupid beyond belief. In the ultimate cut, we see them torch the bodies and blow up tanks to make it look like he used his heat vision, the CIA saw Superman enter the area to destroy a drone, and the woman who swears in court that Superman did all of this is revealed to be working for Luthor. So the ultimate edition actually cleared up one of the stupidest parts of the theater version. If you're talking about the courtroom bombing, most people on the news are wondering why Superman didn't stop the bomb, as to them there's no reason why he shouldn't have known about it and in the UC Lois discovers the reason why he didn't see it. As for the Bat-Brands, it's all over the news in Gotham about Batman branding people. In fact one of the things I really liked in the UC was Clark Kent got to be more fleshed out by him going to Gotham and finding out about all these brands and thus having more of a reason for him to find Batman later and tell him to knock it off. Like I've said before, the ultimate cut is still flawed, but I disagree that it opens up more plot holes when in truth it fixes a good number of them.
So you know it's bad because you read the summary of the new scenes but didn't actually watch it? The ultimate edition doesn't create more plot holes. The Lex Luthor plot hole isn't another plot hole. It also exists in the theatrical version. I like BvS for the most part. Unlike, say, Suicide Squad, which is more of a concept than a movie, there's a couple of potentially really good movies in BvS. Unfortunately the studio was more interested in getting multiple characters together than they were in narrative. They should have done Man of Steel 2 with Batman as a supporting character. They could have then finished Superman's character arc started in the first MoS and then they could have used some of the time wasted rehashing Batman's origin story and instead fleshed out how he became so broken.
Tia Williams I actually have this idea that the DCEU might have been more successful if Man of Steel had been followed by a standalone Batman movie to set up BvS and Suicide Squad - have Joker and Harley as villains, possibly with a Deadshot subplot, all leading into that movie.
(In Kingdom Come it's not Batman's forces vs Superman's forces, but Batman's forces vs Wonder Woman's forces. Superman not wanting to fight anyone is kinda his defining characteristic in that comic.)
Jesus I did nor realize it was this common for heroes in comics to kick the tar out of each other. Overall another good video and I am happy that I found this channel yesterday. I'm glad to see more videos by you Lindsay; keep up the good work.
"Generally fights arise as the result of a misunderstanding and/or manipulation and could be avoided by the two fighting parties behaving like adults and talking things out rather than lanching a full blown assault on each other at the very first opportunity."- A summary of every conflict ever in human history.
+A B Eh, no. Conflicts are for economic reasons. Emotional propaganda is used to manipulate the public opinion towards the conflict, but it's never the reason said conflict starts.
mev186 ehh I wouldn’t say so. A lot of the time, it wasn’t that two groups misunderstood each other, often it was that one or two of those groups were greedy assholes who didn’t give a shit about anything besides taking what they wanted.
This was quite a comical episode. I liked it a lot. Yeah, I always figured this kinda thing exists because of the fun school yard arguments we'd all have at recess. Who would win a fight? Does it matter that they're good guys who would get along otherwise. NOPE! I just wanna see Superman punch Batman. lol
Personally, I feel that the whole superhero vs superhero thing was old before it started; it never made sense to me. What I'd really like to see is a Marvel/DC crossover where heroes from each universe fight villains from the other universe. I mean really; can you imagine Superman in a cataclysmic showdown against Thanos? What about Thor in an apocalyptic struggle with Zod? Or Iron Man going man-on-man with Lex Luthor? Or how about Captain America locked in a duel to the death with Ra's Al Ghul? Or Black Widow in a struggle against Catwoman? Or Spider-Man trying to out-wit and out-smart the Joker? Or how about Batman engaging in epic conflict against the Green Goblin? These are just a few ideas...
Eric Naylor I’ve always thought that the best superhero team up of all time would be Batman and Spider-man. They have some of the best villains in all of comics and to see those pooled together. Gives me a mighty shiver down my spine.
@@kennybrightwell1877 Very late response, but there actually exist two Batman/Spider-Man books and their 'fight' only comes in the form of a verbal disagreement.
Having ADD being able to stay attentive for this long is almost impossible, it just doesn't happen, it's usually the normal high budget, bright lights and fast short fact videos that keep my attention. I don't know how, if it's your voice, way you tell the information or something else but I always stay attentive the whole time, wanting to watch the whole video. You're a great video creator and a very interesting one, and I hope that you don't stop making videos :0
I think my "favorite" (and by "favorite" I mean "Oh sweet Jesus. WHY?!?") superhero clash would be the most recent Avengers vs X-Men. The infamous Phoenix Force is coming to Earth, blowing up planets on its merry way, and the Avengers are worried they'll have another Dark Phoenix on their hands when it gets there. The X-Men (ok, just Cyclops) are convinced that the Phoenix will bring about a rebirth of the near extinct mutant race based on some vague assurances from the future (I think from Cable. Nearly every X-Men story that involves time travel leads to Cable eventually). Unfortunately, Jean Grey is still dead so instead the Phoenix settles for the vaguely mysterious but still quite teenagery not-Jean: Hope Summers. Marvel Readers: What about Rachel? Marvel Editors: Who? So everyone fights like mad up to the moon (literally) until Tony Stark shoots the descending Phoenix with a big gun (of course). The Phoenix splits and suddenly five X-Men are Phoenix powered and set about to make the world a better place, mainly by sheer force and intimidation. My favorite part: Cyclops seals up California's San Andreas fault with his optic blast to ensure that there will be no more earthquakes ever. Because sure. Gradually the Phoenix avatars go power mad and the regular X-Men switch to the Avengers, Cyclops chokes his then girlfriend Emma Frost , Professor X dies in what is probably the most obvious non-surprise of a death ever, and Cyclops goes Dark Phoenix for five minutes until everyone else beats the tar out of him. Oh, and the Phoenix brings a whole bunch of new mutants back ensuring their survival....for a couple years until the Terrigen Mists (the cloud that brings forth the Inhumans) kills most of them off again and sterilizes everybody that's left. Thanks Marvel!
I think Cable was just trying to read, when for the tenth time that day, someone walked in and asked what was going to happen in the future and he just slammed the book shut, made Jim eyes at the camera and said: “tHe PhOeNix fOrCe wIlL sAvE thE eArTh.” And Cyclops took that literally.
Hey Lindsay Dunno if you have time to read comments on youtube, but I, as so many people are I'm sure, am SO glad to see you uploading more. I've always enjoyed your point of view and how you analyze topics. I'm definitely looking forward to more content from you in the future!
The Cadmus arc in the Justice League animated show was done pretty well. Even though it was mostly Justice League vs. the US government, there were quite a few superhero vs. superhero fights.
I always wondered what the d-list to b-list villains usually do with themselves while the heroes were out hashing it with each other. Then, like lightning, I realized: "They're kicking it in Hawaii!"
8:50-8:54 You CAN'T take 1% of a chance and take it as an ABSOLUTE! THAT MAKES NO SENSE! Now no offense to Affleck he's just giving us what he's been presented, but if you only take 1% of anything being that 1% being negative with the other 99% being positive, you can't take the negative as absolute! That's like saying only a Sith dealing only in absolutes and then saying you'll do as you must, CAUSE THAT'S AN ABSOLUTE! Does anyone in the creative process of these kinds of movies crack open a dictionary or a thesaurus?!
+MegatonDestron I don't think you get the idea. The risk of anything is a function of its likelihood and its severity. Superman has a 1% chance of going bad. If he does, Earth is boned and there's nothing anyone can do about it. As opposed to say, Batman has a 50% chance of going bad. If he does, whatever city he's in is going to have a manhunt for a few weeks and dozens of people may die. Not as big of a deal.
To this I'll had: Lindsay says Batman in BvS "quote" Dick Cheney and that it is "not original". However, as you stated, Batman quoted himself from many comics and cartoons. Also in The Dark Knight, Batman uses this device to spy on everyone via their phones... this does look a lot like G.W. Bush and the Patriot Act and the hyper-surveillance promoted afterward. I mean, they are both willing to spy on everyone to catch criminals and the "preventive war" on Superman matches the personality of this character. He wants control and his willing to do whatever it takes to keep this control, even if it is to trespass on people privacy; or attacking someone based on the sole fact that he/she could present a 1% threat. Is it so hard to believe Batman is a broken mind? An insecure control freak? Given the fact he lives in a post 9/11 world, he was traumatised by the death of his parents and could not even save his son from a maniac disguised in a clown suit? Man, seeing the people he loved and cared about being murdered in horrible ways, it is not hard to think he'd go radical and never want to feel powerless again. Don't you think?
You HAVE to! You have to take the danger of that 1 % into account. If you could build a bomb that when detonated would negate all fusion throughout the cosmos. You have to negate even that 1% chance of it ever beeing build.
@MegatonDestron I know it makes no sense to take 1% of a chance as an absolute. But does humans always make sense? Everyone, you and me, sometimes are contradictory. Sometimes, we make no sense at all (at least for others). You must admit we live in a crazy world full of nonsense and mad people. Sure, Batman in this movie is "crazy" to think 1% of a chance is an absolute, but many people thinks the same way. Ron Suskind, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, wrote a book titled "The One Percent Doctrine" about America's hunt for terrorists since the 9/11. It assesses the ways in which American counter-terrorism agencies are working to combat terrorists. Even Vice President Dick Cheney described the Bush administration's doctrine on dealing with terrorism as: [i]f there's a 1% chance that Pakistani scientists are helping al-Qaeda build or develop a nuclear weapon, we have to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response. [...]." So the way Batman/Bruce Wayne described Superman, as if he can represent a treat, it is not so far-fetched from reality. So, as I said, sure Batman/Bruce Wayne is illogical and insane to believe that 1% can be treated as an absolute, but humans are not logical (not always). We are driven by our emotions, by our joy and our fear, by our pain and our anger. In this movie, Bruce Wayne is afraid, angry and will do whatever he can to keep control. But I guess since it is Batman and, considering his mythos, we could have wanted more from him than that. Still, he is just a man, driven by his fears and his traumatism and, in a way, some can relate to it.
Lindsay, if you made three videos a day up to your usual quality standard I'd still likely never get sick of them. These canon analyses are awesome but I would also love to see you do a couple traditional reviews at some point in the near future.
If I remember correctly The Hulk and misunderstandings with other heroes was basically the Hulks thing since forever... Silver Surfer was the heraald of Galactus and a villian... And the first Spiderman/Fantastic Four crossover was complicated by the Chameleon impersonating Spidey
When BVS was announced back in 2015, I was the only one saying "that's a bad idea for a movie, the fight isn't even gonna be that long and it's not a good start to build a cinematic universe...". But like everyone else i got caught up on the hype, and even though I felt Batman was "out of character", I went, and was hugely DISAPPOINTED. Mostly at myself for even thinking it might be good, smh.
I've almost never enjoyed superhero v superhero stories. As you mentioned, it's usually just a misunderstanding and if they acted like adults they would not be fighting. In addition to the reasons being bad, the stakes are generally low, as neither party usually wants to actually kill the other, so you know no permanent damage will be done (like, Batman is not going to kill Superman). And generally, they don't want to take sides when writing these stories, so most often times it'll be some stupid way for them to tie or not finish the fight, and then they team up to fight the 'real bad guy.'
''In the Marvel Universe, Civil War is pretty similar to Kingdom Come, minus the alternate timeline part.'' And also minus the ''being a good story'' part.
Once you brought up the topic, I realized that "good guy" superheroes fighting each other is actually pretty topical. All of us on the liberal-progressive spectrum trying to end racism and sexism... But we are so bad at reaching consensus that we all just fragment into little groups that ostensibly should be allies, but we all hate each other. 😛 So meta.
4:56 - which is funny when you think about it - because Batman is way more willing to go to any extreme to enforce 'justice' than Superman... in fact, Superman's constant desire to hold BACK - to look for better in people - to OBSESS (sometimes rather stupidly) that everyone be given a chance and EVERYONE deserves to be saved... while Batman will (and has - let's be honest here) straight up murder a bitch if he has to. The dynamic between the two of them is ACTUALLY a lot more interesting when you think about it - Batman being anti-authoritative (he's OBSESSED with 'the law' and 'justice' - really? He's a hippie? Okay...) and Superman being 'a thug' or 'the tool of the man' (we're going to reduce a character that beloved to that level? Really?) is REALLY cliche when you actually look at them as two halves of a whole person. In the animated series - and several less well-known adaptions - Batman respects Superman and even admires him for his hopefulness and drive. He believes that Superman is the hero people need to look up to - while he, Batman, operates behind the scenes to make the world safe. Doing some pretty shady shit that almost gets the Justice League killed (those of you who read comics and watch the DCAU Films know what I'm talking about) while Superman admires and respects Batman for getting things done. He knows that Batman's grasp of the darker parts of the worlds are a necessary evil and he relies on Batman for his connections and tactical experience. Superman is highly intelligent - and some of the best stories have focused on him finding ways to get out of problems just using his whits... But when it comes to planning a battle... you can't beat a graduate ninja :P The characters are much more interesting as ALLIES - as friends - as people who, while not always agreeing, both admit that THEIR view of the world ISN'T the absolute AND that they can make the world better BECAUSE of that... it's just... rather unfortunate... that all anyone wants to write about or show about or post youtube videos about is Frank Miller and his Bat Boner. I mean, seriously, people talk about him ruining Superman... maybe check out what he did to Green Lantern or Robin or - hell - Flash :P the guy is a dick
4:25 I have that issue! It starts with Franklin Richards having a nightmare about his father Reed becoming Dr. Doom. In his nightmare Reed has a journal or something & Sue finds the journal & confronts Reed about it
I like how a story will be sold as "SOSO FIGHTS SOSO!!!!!!!!" and then you watch or read it and it's like...a relatively "smal"l fight (Usually over a misunderstanding or brief mind control) that wraps up quickly and isn't the main drive of the plot. In recent memory, justice league vs teen titans 2016
Great video, but the Punisher up against Spiderman in his first appearance is worth noting. That's kind of what gave us the Punisher. Though it's really superhero vs (the epitome of) antihero
Okay, so I rewatched this video after reading the Avengers Academy comics, and I wasn't aware that Civil War was the result of Speedball's profound screwup in Stamford until I saw the image at 7:41 and did a double take and some research. So that's something...
I remember a justice league tas episode Hereafter, where superman is believed to be killed. Everyone but Batman believes this but even he starts to have his doubts. He ends up speaking to Superman at his memorial stating that he always respected him and that he showed Batman that justice doesn't have to akways have a dark side.
Yay! Superheros fighting cause why not WHY NOT. WHY NOT. ^_^ Another great episode. Wish these came out more often. Maaaaaybe a Batman Loose Canon? Hm? Hmmmmmm?
I'm surprised you didn't mention Marvel vs DC which has the strangest contrived way of getting the heroes to fight each other (and also the Romeo and Juliet love story of Robin and Jubilee). Also it spawned the bizarre Amalgam series combining the heroes like Wolverine and Batman into one person!
I was kind of hoping you'd mention the DC vs Marvel line of comics from 1996, if for no other reason than to address the weird, weird...thing that was the line of Amalgam comics that it produced, where the hybrid characters of Marvel and DC reign supreme like the hypothetical result of mpreg fanfiction becoming canon.
+Jack Spratt That was definitely a strange one. Namely since the individual fights were decided by fan votes. So you'd get to watch Storm defeat Wonder Woman and Wolverine defeat Lobo. It was pretty ridiculous. And Jubilee vs Robin was a thing because... they got to hook up. It was dumb fun.
I always rather liked the first Batman vs Judge Dredd crossover, in that it actually did make sense that they'd hate each other - Dredd's a fascist who despises vigilantes. Didn't hurt that they went for a black comedy angle, too.
A Superman vs Spiderman comic? That sounds amazing! I ship Wonder Woman and Batman thanks to Justice League. Personally I always thought the two work better as a team. LOL Nice mini-canon. :)
Hey lindsay I love all your videos and Loose Canon in particular. But can you please adjust your audio levels so your narration is louder? I always turn your videos up so much and then the intro/outro music blows my ears out. You're doing awesome work though, keep it up!
Kingdom Come might have a familiar plot, but it had sufficiently gorgeous artwork (cover to cover watercolors by Alex Ross) that I absolutely forgive it that. And Civil War the Movie actually did try really hard to show "look, we're trying to work this out like adults." (Even if the catalyst event was a lot less valid than the one in the comics.)
I really think Frank Miller was full of himself for thinking Superman and Batman can never be friends because of their differences in personalities. It's like he's never met an actual human in his life.
+GeneralKenobi75 The DKR sequel was even worse than the first book. And the third is literally called 'The Master Race'. Racism much? On top of that, Miller was the yahoo that wrote the Molotov throwing, child kidnapping, forcing-said-child-to-eat-rats, 'goddamn' Batman mess that was All-Star Batman
FoxyWhite
I remember, although I wish I could forget.
***** Which shows Frank Miller doesn't get Superman. Superman would never align himself with any one nation to become their own private enforcer. This is just Miller thinking Superman is that weak willed. He'd keep going around being Superman no matter what the government said, and if he really thought the Earth didn't need him anymore, he'd leave to protect another planet. Yeah it's an elseworlds story, but it's not one I can get behind. Also, Superman would never break Oliver's arm, that is completely out of character for him. They never act like they used to be old friends at all. Unlike in Kingdom Come where differences and tension has driven them apart, but they still show respect for one another because of old friendship. Kingdom Come was a much better elsesworlds story featuring this theme.
DKR was, in general, Miller insisting that do to differing personalities, Bruce and Clark could never actually get along. Which is hokey because the very reason they get along so well is BECAUSE their personalities are so different. Bruce keeps Superman grounded, and Clark helps shine a little light and hope on to Batman. They balance.
***** Superman or Batman story the characters need to act in character. Not paint the other as completely incompetent to make the other seem like the better hero. That's what Miller does whenever he features Batman and Superman in the same story. Superman would have better control than that, he doesn't just suddenly injure someone from losing control. If he did his childhood would have been a lot rougher. Still seems like a complete bashing of Superman's character. He'd let Batman do what he does because they do the same thing. Also, Miller's interpretation of Batman is just as bad because while Batman knows he needs to work outside the law, he's never been happy about that fact and never embraces it. That's why his alliance with Jim Gordon is so vital, so he can work with the police. Now Miller portrays him as a violent anarchist and something of a fascist, when Batman's only reason for working as a "vigilante" is to restore enough order so people like Gordon can do their job. The only reasonable thing in this comic that puts Superman and Batman at odds is the killing of the Joker, which is still hokey because Superman would want to find out more of what happened before just confronting Bruce. Especially not for the government. I guess we will.
Lindsay Ellis is one of very few RUclips critics worthy of respect. I think she actually throws the Nostalgia Critics and Jeremy Jahns of this world into stark relief. She's knowledge, articulate, knowledgeable, witty and very knowledgeable. RUclips has allowed the artistry and talent usually involved in great film criticism to be sidelined in favour of easy, cheap fluff - Lindsay, and those like her, are the solution.
great, I agree and all that, but I want to know if you wrote this sentence sober: "She's knowledge, articulate, knowledgeable, witty and very knowledgeable"
I would agree that she is knowledge, knowledgeable and also very knowledgeable
But is she knowledge AND knowledgeable??? 🤔
Can you recommend someone similar?
I agree, i believe you can learn a lot more from these videos then those channels
I will say, my favorite part of Civil War was when Tony Stark goes to visit the X-Men to try and recruit them and Emma Frost responds with "Where were you when our babies were burning?" Especially, after in Issue #1, they send a Sentinel to watch the X-Men while they help with the Stamford Disaster.
This part spoke to me as a black man as all those times where tragedies, injustices and transgressions against the Black Community tend to be largely ignored (justified by such statements as "if you had just obeyed the law, you wouldn't be dead" or "where were his parents? Why didn't they teach him better?" or "By drawing attention to racism, you're making it worse!" when anyone dares to speak up about it), but when something happens in White America, to quote Eminem "Middle America, NOW it's a tragedy, NOW it's so sad to see, an Upper Class City..."
+Davethe3rd That bit was a kick to the stomach. I might not like Emma Frost, but damn if she won't do anything for the children she has in her care and Tony's hypocrisy obviously infuriated her.
As for the second part of your comment, I can't begin to imagine what it must be like, but the injustice and willful ignorance of this world make me so angry. White people (myself included) are so blinded by privilege that we can't even see past our own realities. No sociological imagination, no empathy.
I can't speak to the realities of the United States, either, but I know that here in the United Kingdom the biggest divide is between classes (not that there isn't huge amounts of racism, because there are). One working class person's mistakes are suddenly the fault of the entire working class community, whereas if a middle class person does something wrong, they're an anomaly. The structures of privilege are terrifying.
(I hope I didn't come off as insensitive. I didn't want to seem insensitive by ignoring the second part of your comment, but I don't want to offend, either.)
+Davethe3rd Wouldn't a registration act disproportionately effect mutants? Why would that ever go over well with Frost?
I'm not very up to date on anything related to heroes fighting each other or the x-men, but to me that sounds very much like the wise advice "let's stay out of the fucking drama" :)
For some reason, I think mutants were exempt from the law and the X-Men stayed impartial, largely. Wolverine does have a series where he hunts down Nitro, the living bomb, the mutant who can blow himself up, who starts the whole incident at Stamford.
Douglas Rau mutants weren't exempt, they were already registered under the mutant registry act.
*message from the future* MARTHA!
It's his mother's name! What? How did I appear at the exact perfect moment? Now that you mention it, I don't know.
*”WHY DID YOU MAKE THAT JOKE?!?!?”*
Too soon?
Ah, I'm too soon!
Happy to see you're uploading more, Lindsay~ I missed hearing your witticisms and your take on topics! As someone who's definitely feeling the superhero movie fatigue, it's a little refreshing to see the source of what's coming up in the movies.
What a lot of comic book writers never understood is that what makes crossovers work is the interactions between the heroes... And no, that doesn't mean them fighting, although fighting can indeed be a good way for the heroes to play off each other.
Look at the 90's Justice League tv show. A lot of comedy and drama was milked out of the superheroes just talking, cooperating, feuding over disagreements, and, as an extension of the latter, overcoming their issues and growing as characters.
I had my doubts about the Batman V Superman movie, I think I was giving it too much credit by merely doubting.
+Toridan 40% in RT...lol
Ever since I saw the trailer I've been worried about it. My main fear is that it will take itself way too seriously like Man of Steel did and none of the characters will have any spark and that I won't care about any of them. Also, the way that Wonder Woman is shown in the trailer just makes it look like she's there for cameos and fan squee.
The reason I'm worried about it is that if the movie doesn't do well then we'll NEVER get a Wonder Woman movie. DC is utterly terrified of doing a female superhero movie. Heck, even Marvel hasn't done a Black Widow movie (which is utter nonsense, in my opinion). If either of these studios actually get off their terrified behinds and MAKE a female superhero movie, I will watch it in the theater just to make a point.
+Paris Lavender WW movies is already filmed and in post. It comes out June 2017.
Jose Colella HALLELUJAH!!! :-)
+Mix Tapes Gadot is actually quite tall, I just hope she putted on some weight.
[watches trailer of Batman Vs. Superman movie]
Spider-Man: "This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot."
When you stop and think about it, it seems like superheroes fight each other more frequently than supervillains do.
Think about it: get a bunch of superheroes in a room together and it's usually either the end of the world or they're having a massive fight for some dumb reason. Get a bunch of supervillains in a room and they could be doing just about anything - drawing up their next big scheme, playing cards, swapping stories, generally just hanging out or having fun on a crime spree. Occasionally we see minor spats over pecking order or for alpha position, but most of the time it doesn't take more than a punch in the face to settle.
Hell, if I lived in one of these two fictional universes and had superpowers, and I had to pick between being a hero or a villain, I'd probably be a villain just because the villains make better company.
Or go the Deadpool route and socialize all over the place :)
It gets a little backstab-y though.
Unless Red Skull is involved. Nowadays, no-one wants to play nice with the Nazi. _Especially_ not Magneto (who might be a hero right now actually...).
"That's why evil is winning. When two good creatures disagree, they assume the other to be evil. But two evil creatures won't assume each other to be good. They just... disagree."
Unless you're Supergirl and the Flash. Then you just go for ice cream and donuts! :3
I dunno, I oddly can recall at the top of my head six occasion of poker parties in the Avengers History.
(Side note: Supposedly Spidey is never invited because his Spider sense count as telepathy)
Still waiting for that talk about BvS. :P Really would love to see your video about it!
Hopefully she talks about both the theatrical version (which was terrible) and the Ultimate Edition (which was overall pretty good though with still some clear faults). Good way to show that studios need to not make incredibly short-sighted decisions just because it might make them a little more money.
No, the ultimate edition is still pretty crap, only resolving the choppy editing and introducing even more problems to the script in general. I've read the summary of the new scenes, all it adds is further confusion over why people would think Superman is responsible for any of these acts and how Lex Luthor seems to know enough about the Bat Brands to use them. Creating more plot holes with your writing still doesn't make your movie good.
To explain some things: In the theatrical version, when the people are killed in the desert the movie makes it look like everyone thinks Superman flew all the way out there to kill them with bullets, which is stupid beyond belief. In the ultimate cut, we see them torch the bodies and blow up tanks to make it look like he used his heat vision, the CIA saw Superman enter the area to destroy a drone, and the woman who swears in court that Superman did all of this is revealed to be working for Luthor. So the ultimate edition actually cleared up one of the stupidest parts of the theater version. If you're talking about the courtroom bombing, most people on the news are wondering why Superman didn't stop the bomb, as to them there's no reason why he shouldn't have known about it and in the UC Lois discovers the reason why he didn't see it.
As for the Bat-Brands, it's all over the news in Gotham about Batman branding people. In fact one of the things I really liked in the UC was Clark Kent got to be more fleshed out by him going to Gotham and finding out about all these brands and thus having more of a reason for him to find Batman later and tell him to knock it off.
Like I've said before, the ultimate cut is still flawed, but I disagree that it opens up more plot holes when in truth it fixes a good number of them.
So you know it's bad because you read the summary of the new scenes but didn't actually watch it? The ultimate edition doesn't create more plot holes. The Lex Luthor plot hole isn't another plot hole. It also exists in the theatrical version. I like BvS for the most part. Unlike, say, Suicide Squad, which is more of a concept than a movie, there's a couple of potentially really good movies in BvS. Unfortunately the studio was more interested in getting multiple characters together than they were in narrative.
They should have done Man of Steel 2 with Batman as a supporting character. They could have then finished Superman's character arc started in the first MoS and then they could have used some of the time wasted rehashing Batman's origin story and instead fleshed out how he became so broken.
Tia Williams
I actually have this idea that the DCEU might have been more successful if Man of Steel had been followed by a standalone Batman movie to set up BvS and Suicide Squad - have Joker and Harley as villains, possibly with a Deadshot subplot, all leading into that movie.
3:21 At the very top, Spiderman says "How'd you get so hard so suddenly?"
Yikes.
"My Spider-sense is tingling!"
(In Kingdom Come it's not Batman's forces vs Superman's forces, but Batman's forces vs Wonder Woman's forces. Superman not wanting to fight anyone is kinda his defining characteristic in that comic.)
I really love how Batman goes from one percent to absolute certainty and acts like he sounds reasonable.
Jesus I did nor realize it was this common for heroes in comics to kick the tar out of each other. Overall another good video and I am happy that I found this channel yesterday. I'm glad to see more videos by you Lindsay; keep up the good work.
Wonderful as always. Those topical episodes are always surprisingly good !
She has three copies of dance central on that shelf. I am intrigued.
She probably just has all three iterations.
@@ZertusDarkSun thank
So much content in such a small timeline! Thank you so much Lindsay it's always a treat to see new content from you!
4:40 - "Say.... It's Miller Time!"
I second this.
+Davethe3rd Linkara intensifies
"Generally fights arise as the result of a misunderstanding and/or manipulation and could be avoided by the two fighting parties behaving like adults and talking things out rather than lanching a full blown assault on each other at the very first opportunity."- A summary of every conflict ever in human history.
+A B Eh, no. Conflicts are for economic reasons. Emotional propaganda is used to manipulate the public opinion towards the conflict, but it's never the reason said conflict starts.
mev186 ehh I wouldn’t say so. A lot of the time, it wasn’t that two groups misunderstood each other, often it was that one or two of those groups were greedy assholes who didn’t give a shit about anything besides taking what they wanted.
This was quite a comical episode. I liked it a lot. Yeah, I always figured this kinda thing exists because of the fun school yard arguments we'd all have at recess. Who would win a fight? Does it matter that they're good guys who would get along otherwise. NOPE! I just wanna see Superman punch Batman. lol
Thank you Lindsay, great episode as always. I love your cracking up when explaining silly things :) .
Personally, I feel that the whole superhero vs superhero thing was old before it started; it never made sense to me.
What I'd really like to see is a Marvel/DC crossover where heroes from each universe fight villains from the other universe.
I mean really; can you imagine Superman in a cataclysmic showdown against Thanos? What about Thor in an apocalyptic struggle with Zod? Or Iron Man going man-on-man with Lex Luthor? Or how about Captain America locked in a duel to the death with Ra's Al Ghul? Or Black Widow in a struggle against Catwoman? Or Spider-Man trying to out-wit and out-smart the Joker? Or how about Batman engaging in epic conflict against the Green Goblin?
These are just a few ideas...
Eric Naylor I’ve always thought that the best superhero team up of all time would be Batman and Spider-man. They have some of the best villains in all of comics and to see those pooled together. Gives me a mighty shiver down my spine.
All of those sound like awesome ideas and I would definitely read them if they existed.
That sounds awesome
Punisher/Batman does that, Batman/Daredevil too :)
@@kennybrightwell1877 Very late response, but there actually exist two Batman/Spider-Man books and their 'fight' only comes in the form of a verbal disagreement.
Great video, as always!
You are my favorite YTer rn. I want u to know during quarantine your videos are binged bc i LOVE your outlooks. Im on video 6 in a row. Ur awesome.
Every now and then I just love to come back to „easy going Lindsay“, where it was just small videos with chill background music 🤗
LOVING this series. How did I not know you existed?
Love it when you talk supeheroes!! Concise, clever and funny as always!!
Having ADD being able to stay attentive for this long is almost impossible, it just doesn't happen, it's usually the normal high budget, bright lights and fast short fact videos that keep my attention.
I don't know how, if it's your voice, way you tell the information or something else but I always stay attentive the whole time, wanting to watch the whole video. You're a great video creator and a very interesting one, and I hope that you don't stop making videos :0
I think my "favorite" (and by "favorite" I mean "Oh sweet Jesus. WHY?!?") superhero clash would be the most recent Avengers vs X-Men. The infamous Phoenix Force is coming to Earth, blowing up planets on its merry way, and the Avengers are worried they'll have another Dark Phoenix on their hands when it gets there.
The X-Men (ok, just Cyclops) are convinced that the Phoenix will bring about a rebirth of the near extinct mutant race based on some vague assurances from the future (I think from Cable. Nearly every X-Men story that involves time travel leads to Cable eventually).
Unfortunately, Jean Grey is still dead so instead the Phoenix settles for the vaguely mysterious but still quite teenagery not-Jean: Hope Summers.
Marvel Readers: What about Rachel?
Marvel Editors: Who?
So everyone fights like mad up to the moon (literally) until Tony Stark shoots the descending Phoenix with a big gun (of course). The Phoenix splits and suddenly five X-Men are Phoenix powered and set about to make the world a better place, mainly by sheer force and intimidation.
My favorite part: Cyclops seals up California's San Andreas fault with his optic blast to ensure that there will be no more earthquakes ever. Because sure.
Gradually the Phoenix avatars go power mad and the regular X-Men switch to the Avengers, Cyclops chokes his then girlfriend Emma Frost , Professor X dies in what is probably the most obvious non-surprise of a death ever, and Cyclops goes Dark Phoenix for five minutes until everyone else beats the tar out of him.
Oh, and the Phoenix brings a whole bunch of new mutants back ensuring their survival....for a couple years until the Terrigen Mists (the cloud that brings forth the Inhumans) kills most of them off again and sterilizes everybody that's left.
Thanks Marvel!
I think Cable was just trying to read, when for the tenth time that day, someone walked in and asked what was going to happen in the future and he just slammed the book shut, made Jim eyes at the camera and said: “tHe PhOeNix fOrCe wIlL sAvE thE eArTh.” And Cyclops took that literally.
Hey Lindsay
Dunno if you have time to read comments on youtube, but I, as so many people are I'm sure, am SO glad to see you uploading more. I've always enjoyed your point of view and how you analyze topics. I'm definitely looking forward to more content from you in the future!
Really enjoy these. Keep them coming!
This came out three weeks ago and I'm only seeing it now. Good job, Giggle!
Another great episode, you rock Lindsay!
The Cadmus arc in the Justice League animated show was done pretty well. Even though it was mostly Justice League vs. the US government, there were quite a few superhero vs. superhero fights.
I always appreciate your videos. Thank you.
Kingdom Come is one of my favorite comics of all time
"space gulag", I LOVE YOU LINDSAY
+Jose Colella I realized today that she has a copy of Skyrim on top of her many Dance Centrals. So now I love her moar.
Good overview and an even better library.
Great video as always.
I always wondered what the d-list to b-list villains usually do with themselves while the heroes were out hashing it with each other. Then, like lightning, I realized: "They're kicking it in Hawaii!"
Thanks to that intro I now picture the Fantastic Four as a bunch of nerds that routinely pick fights with everyone in a Denny’s parking lot at 3 AM
OMG @ the Animorphs books in the background. Love that!
8:50-8:54
You CAN'T take 1% of a chance and take it as an ABSOLUTE! THAT MAKES NO SENSE! Now no offense to Affleck he's just giving us what he's been presented, but if you only take 1% of anything being that 1% being negative with the other 99% being positive, you can't take the negative as absolute!
That's like saying only a Sith dealing only in absolutes and then saying you'll do as you must, CAUSE THAT'S AN ABSOLUTE!
Does anyone in the creative process of these kinds of movies crack open a dictionary or a thesaurus?!
+MegatonDestron I don't think you get the idea. The risk of anything is a function of its likelihood and its severity.
Superman has a 1% chance of going bad. If he does, Earth is boned and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
As opposed to say, Batman has a 50% chance of going bad. If he does, whatever city he's in is going to have a manhunt for a few weeks and dozens of people may die. Not as big of a deal.
+LordRadical There's just as much a 1% chance someone dressing up as a bat to fight crime is perfectly sane
To this I'll had: Lindsay says Batman in BvS "quote" Dick Cheney and that it is "not original". However, as you stated, Batman quoted himself from many comics and cartoons. Also in The Dark Knight, Batman uses this device to spy on everyone via their phones... this does look a lot like G.W. Bush and the Patriot Act and the hyper-surveillance promoted afterward. I mean, they are both willing to spy on everyone to catch criminals and the "preventive war" on Superman matches the personality of this character.
He wants control and his willing to do whatever it takes to keep this control, even if it is to trespass on people privacy; or attacking someone based on the sole fact that he/she could present a 1% threat. Is it so hard to believe Batman is a broken mind? An insecure control freak? Given the fact he lives in a post 9/11 world, he was traumatised by the death of his parents and could not even save his son from a maniac disguised in a clown suit?
Man, seeing the people he loved and cared about being murdered in horrible ways, it is not hard to think he'd go radical and never want to feel powerless again.
Don't you think?
You HAVE to! You have to take the danger of that 1 % into account. If you could build a bomb that when detonated would negate all fusion throughout the cosmos. You have to negate even that 1% chance of it ever beeing build.
@MegatonDestron I know it makes no sense to take 1% of a chance as an absolute. But does humans always make sense? Everyone, you and me, sometimes are contradictory. Sometimes, we make no sense at all (at least for others). You must admit we live in a crazy world full of nonsense and mad people. Sure, Batman in this movie is "crazy" to think 1% of a chance is an absolute, but many people thinks the same way.
Ron Suskind, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, wrote a book titled "The One Percent Doctrine" about America's hunt for terrorists since the 9/11. It assesses the ways in which American counter-terrorism agencies are working to combat terrorists. Even Vice President Dick Cheney described the Bush administration's doctrine on dealing with terrorism as: [i]f there's a 1% chance that Pakistani scientists are helping al-Qaeda build or develop a nuclear weapon, we have to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response. [...]." So the way Batman/Bruce Wayne described Superman, as if he can represent a treat, it is not so far-fetched from reality.
So, as I said, sure Batman/Bruce Wayne is illogical and insane to believe that 1% can be treated as an absolute, but humans are not logical (not always). We are driven by our emotions, by our joy and our fear, by our pain and our anger. In this movie, Bruce Wayne is afraid, angry and will do whatever he can to keep control.
But I guess since it is Batman and, considering his mythos, we could have wanted more from him than that. Still, he is just a man, driven by his fears and his traumatism and, in a way, some can relate to it.
Loving these!
Lindsay, if you made three videos a day up to your usual quality standard I'd still likely never get sick of them. These canon analyses are awesome but I would also love to see you do a couple traditional reviews at some point in the near future.
Well, the thing about _Kingdom Come_ is the great Alex Ross artwork.
A new video so soon?! Yaaas!
2:36 so now that Disney is getting all these characters, there needs to be a Spider-Man/fantastic 4 movie and a Hulk vs wolverine movie
Getting the groove on with those Dance Central video games in the corner.
Made my day.
If I remember correctly The Hulk and misunderstandings with other heroes was basically the Hulks thing since forever... Silver Surfer was the heraald of Galactus and a villian... And the first Spiderman/Fantastic Four crossover was complicated by the Chameleon impersonating Spidey
Cracking video. I love the flash v superman for charity, that's actually pretty believable?? anyway that lipstick colour really suits you
When BVS was announced back in 2015, I was the only one saying "that's a bad idea for a movie, the fight isn't even gonna be that long and it's not a good start to build a cinematic universe...". But like everyone else i got caught up on the hype, and even though I felt Batman was "out of character", I went, and was hugely DISAPPOINTED. Mostly at myself for even thinking it might be good, smh.
Finally, someone else who doesn't like Civil War!
Anyway, I'm surprised there was no mention of the DC vs Marvel miniseries from the '90s.
That first minute, perfectly sums up Batman vs Superman
Another fantastic Mini-Canon video! By the way, would you ever consider doing any more top 10 videos?
No! Top ten videos are evil! Evil I say!! XD
I miss you and wish to see more updates.
Will we have a Chezapcolapse: Civil War? :)
+Bernie Bro Well... We already had TGWTG Civil War, resulting in the creation of Chezapocalypse
SHE'S BACK
I always have to double check these videos are pre- or post-Martha
I've almost never enjoyed superhero v superhero stories. As you mentioned, it's usually just a misunderstanding and if they acted like adults they would not be fighting. In addition to the reasons being bad, the stakes are generally low, as neither party usually wants to actually kill the other, so you know no permanent damage will be done (like, Batman is not going to kill Superman). And generally, they don't want to take sides when writing these stories, so most often times it'll be some stupid way for them to tie or not finish the fight, and then they team up to fight the 'real bad guy.'
''In the Marvel Universe, Civil War is pretty similar to Kingdom Come, minus the alternate timeline part.''
And also minus the ''being a good story'' part.
Once you brought up the topic, I realized that "good guy" superheroes fighting each other is actually pretty topical. All of us on the liberal-progressive spectrum trying to end racism and sexism... But we are so bad at reaching consensus that we all just fragment into little groups that ostensibly should be allies, but we all hate each other. 😛 So meta.
Love you, Linsay!
I adore the jaunty music in this. It's so perfect. 💜😂
Aw, that cute moment of reality is endearing; Kind of an unintentional throwback to the "How To..." video.
Don't think I don't see those Dancing games Lindsey.
Dance central is rad btw.
ok but the art style in the batman v superman comics is gorgeous
Ah yes, my the comic trope of, in the words of Mr. Sunday, “they punch for a bit and then they’re mates”
4:56 - which is funny when you think about it - because Batman is way more willing to go to any extreme to enforce 'justice' than Superman... in fact, Superman's constant desire to hold BACK - to look for better in people - to OBSESS (sometimes rather stupidly) that everyone be given a chance and EVERYONE deserves to be saved... while Batman will (and has - let's be honest here) straight up murder a bitch if he has to.
The dynamic between the two of them is ACTUALLY a lot more interesting when you think about it - Batman being anti-authoritative (he's OBSESSED with 'the law' and 'justice' - really? He's a hippie? Okay...) and Superman being 'a thug' or 'the tool of the man' (we're going to reduce a character that beloved to that level? Really?) is REALLY cliche when you actually look at them as two halves of a whole person.
In the animated series - and several less well-known adaptions - Batman respects Superman and even admires him for his hopefulness and drive. He believes that Superman is the hero people need to look up to - while he, Batman, operates behind the scenes to make the world safe. Doing some pretty shady shit that almost gets the Justice League killed (those of you who read comics and watch the DCAU Films know what I'm talking about) while Superman admires and respects Batman for getting things done. He knows that Batman's grasp of the darker parts of the worlds are a necessary evil and he relies on Batman for his connections and tactical experience. Superman is highly intelligent - and some of the best stories have focused on him finding ways to get out of problems just using his whits...
But when it comes to planning a battle... you can't beat a graduate ninja :P
The characters are much more interesting as ALLIES - as friends - as people who, while not always agreeing, both admit that THEIR view of the world ISN'T the absolute AND that they can make the world better BECAUSE of that... it's just... rather unfortunate... that all anyone wants to write about or show about or post youtube videos about is Frank Miller and his Bat Boner.
I mean, seriously, people talk about him ruining Superman... maybe check out what he did to Green Lantern or Robin or - hell - Flash :P the guy is a dick
So very, very good. Thank you.
Love the Sarah MacLean book on the shelf. One of my fav authors.
There was also a big one with the X-Men vs the Avengers vs the Young Avengers (and Dr Doom eventually) in the Children's Crusade.
Just spotted the three copies of Dance Central games and it made me laugh for some reason.
I think i have a new favorite chanel.
You're sarcasm for Bats v. Supes is great.
4:25 I have that issue! It starts with Franklin Richards having a nightmare about his father Reed becoming Dr. Doom. In his nightmare Reed has a journal or something & Sue finds the journal & confronts Reed about it
Okay, now I need a followed video regarding BvS and Civil War
I like how a story will be sold as "SOSO FIGHTS SOSO!!!!!!!!" and then you watch or read it and it's like...a relatively "smal"l fight (Usually over a misunderstanding or brief mind control) that wraps up quickly and isn't the main drive of the plot. In recent memory, justice league vs teen titans 2016
Great video, but the Punisher up against Spiderman in his first appearance is worth noting. That's kind of what gave us the Punisher. Though it's really superhero vs (the epitome of) antihero
Great review
Just noticed there's no mention of injustice.
I love all your vids, and i just realuzed I wasnt subscribed!! smh
Okay, so I rewatched this video after reading the Avengers Academy comics, and I wasn't aware that Civil War was the result of Speedball's profound screwup in Stamford until I saw the image at 7:41 and did a double take and some research. So that's something...
I love the Civil War comic. I've never read any tie-ins but I really enjoy the trade.
I remember a justice league tas episode Hereafter, where superman is believed to be killed. Everyone but Batman believes this but even he starts to have his doubts. He ends up speaking to Superman at his memorial stating that he always respected him and that he showed Batman that justice doesn't have to akways have a dark side.
Your actually a much better presenter and researcher on comic material then that person on 'desk of deathbattle' by far.
Yay! Superheros fighting cause why not WHY NOT. WHY NOT. ^_^ Another great episode. Wish these came out more often.
Maaaaaybe a Batman Loose Canon? Hm? Hmmmmmm?
I'm surprised you didn't mention Marvel vs DC which has the strangest contrived way of getting the heroes to fight each other (and also the Romeo and Juliet love story of Robin and Jubilee). Also it spawned the bizarre Amalgam series combining the heroes like Wolverine and Batman into one person!
that unplanned ending was kinda charming, so you still win. thank you for that info. Civil War sounds dreadful.
I was kind of hoping you'd mention the DC vs Marvel line of comics from 1996, if for no other reason than to address the weird, weird...thing that was the line of Amalgam comics that it produced, where the hybrid characters of Marvel and DC reign supreme like the hypothetical result of mpreg fanfiction becoming canon.
+Jack Spratt That was definitely a strange one. Namely since the individual fights were decided by fan votes. So you'd get to watch Storm defeat Wonder Woman and Wolverine defeat Lobo. It was pretty ridiculous. And Jubilee vs Robin was a thing because... they got to hook up.
It was dumb fun.
i deeply truly love you
Anyone else get the ad for civil war before this, coincidentally?
Awesome!!!
I always rather liked the first Batman vs Judge Dredd crossover, in that it actually did make sense that they'd hate each other - Dredd's a fascist who despises vigilantes. Didn't hurt that they went for a black comedy angle, too.
A Superman vs Spiderman comic? That sounds amazing!
I ship Wonder Woman and Batman thanks to Justice League. Personally I always thought the two work better as a team. LOL
Nice mini-canon. :)
+Elyse Walker It was actually pretty fun.
Especially when Superman won the fight by letting Spiderman break his fist by hitting Superman in the chest.
Lindsay, superheroes had a tradition of fighting each other since the original Human Torch and Namor in 1941
Hey lindsay I love all your videos and Loose Canon in particular. But can you please adjust your audio levels so your narration is louder? I always turn your videos up so much and then the intro/outro music blows my ears out. You're doing awesome work though, keep it up!
Has anyone mentioned how many copies of Dance Central Lindsay has?
Kingdom Come might have a familiar plot, but it had sufficiently gorgeous artwork (cover to cover watercolors by Alex Ross) that I absolutely forgive it that.
And Civil War the Movie actually did try really hard to show "look, we're trying to work this out like adults." (Even if the catalyst event was a lot less valid than the one in the comics.)