Stanly said in an interview when he went on his dive in Titan the hull was popping so loud it sounded like .22 caliber gunshots and this was only on a test dive at 100 or so feet deep.
@@HandyDandy6 So Rush ends up killing himself and 4 others because of his huge ego and shotty workmanship on a sub THAT MUST BE ABLE TO HANDLE PRESSURE. I would have been more concerned than making money. If your defending this guy you got issues mister, Were talking around 6000 lbs per square inch !!! Glue and duct tape don't cut it
he also deflected the fact that rush, misrepresented ocean gate by referring to the three decades of safety in the submersible community well concealing the fact that community had grave concerning the construction and operation of the carbon fiber submersible. If Rush had not conducted himself in this dangerous fashion - and concealed the danger from his customers - the next of Ken would not now be suffering.
There was time between the failure of control system and the implosion. They may not have felt anything, but they most likely were in terror knowing what was about to befall them. They heard and reported hearing cracking noises before contact was lost. So they may have endured minutes of terror knowing they were most likely about to die.
@@lohphat I hope not, but you are probably right. I remember reading that transcript of texts with Polar Prince while they were returning up. Issues with velocity I think and alarms going off. Perhaps it’s enough to say they didn’t feel physical pain or endured drowning.
@@karolinabaker7637 The first transcript of the communication that surfaced (badumm tss) after the incident is already proven to be fake. The actual transcript got published a few days ago and it does not indicate any awareness of the passengers. Contact was lost abruptly without ANY report of problems on the way down.
As someone with a basic understanding of engineering, this makes sense. When I watched the video of them HAND GLUEING the titanium to the carbon fiber, I was like NO WAY..
It would seem that once they went from a sphere to anything else, the design would be unpredictable. I'm sure no one is going to use this design again or try to improve it .
I was just telling my husband about the hand glueing. It’s ridiculous. “Passengers” were lied to by this megalomaniac (not the man testifying but the owner - I don’t even want to write his name. No more media attention for him!)
Although the catastrophic failure of the glue-line was instantaneous, they all already knew they were in peril because they were shedding weight ... dropping balasts and skids to stop descent. By the text and recorder information, You cannot another day.They understood they were having malfunctions. They were taking evasive of actions.
Definitely threw it together like a kid trying to get brownie points for turning in his science project early. Only to have it be flaming 💩 because he skipped all of the important, actual science, parts.
Wow- absolutely WOW! Everyone knew that sub was NOT adequate to dive that depth. Experts told him, warned everyone and told him time and time again. Stockton Rush was so arrogant he actually murdered those poor people!😞😞😞
Scott Manley has a good video here on You Tube where he discusses the video of the wreckage before it was recovered, while it was still sitting on the ocean floor. He came to the same conclusion as Catterson about where the hull failure took place (at the forward carbon fiber/titanium interface), pointing out that much of the hull had actually been compacted into the rear titanium dome, which you can see in the footage. Thus it would appear that the implosion began at the forward end where the cylindrical hull met the forward dome, with the force of the implosion driving everything towards the rear except for the front dome, which was blown forwards. He explains it better than I can.
If you watch the guy prep the area the glue was to be applied on the dome you can watch him with his ungloved hands touch/hold onto the area he had just cleaned a few times. Sweat, oils, dirt and maybe other chemicals he had gotten on his hands that day laid on that glue line weakening an already weak spot...If you watch the video it's easy to see the guy put his hands right on the spots he just prepped right before the glue was applied.
I'm in no way a defender of OceanGate, but the US Navy also made a submarine with a carbon fiber hull and titanium domes and rings like OceanGate and tested it to depths deeper than OceanGate. The US Navy also used an epoxy glue to fuse their carbon fiber hull to the titanium rings.
This is heartbreaking. This witness's anguish and heartache over what he's seen, what he knows to be true and what he is now telling the world about this tragedy is written all over his face and is heard in his voice. I hope, someday, he finds the inner peace that seems to have been lost during this investigation and his part in it.
Ive worked bondeding metals to woven fibres and watching them doing the gluing, no gloves, no hats or overalls, no blasted or etched surfaces, no solvents used to degrease surfaces, rag used to wipe metal then a hand ( no gloves) is placed on it ( deposits grease). No wonder it came unbonded. 😟
Yep, no cleanroom environment like you would see at NASA contractors. I could not believe how the adhesive was hand applied by a Home Depot spatula in an open air facility. 4 innocent lives lost...
@@glennkoenig6078 not every tool has to be "certified" to be adequate. you can use your hands to mix and apply adhesives as long as you're wearing gloves. However, when working on such highly stressed items you HAVE to do it properly. Something they didnt do. Let alone any kind of 90 degree bond with composites and metals should never be just with adhesive. You always need support structures. Like more layers of carbon laying over the titanium.
@@cestaron634 Proper glue bonding of the surface would NOT have mattered in the long run. Because the wound carbon fiber hull was delaminating on every dive. Hence the cracking sounds heard. So that the hull walls would have leaked anyway in due time. Also the use of Titanium and Wound Carbon fiber has different rates of Contraction and Expansion and Modulus of Elasticity that would have defeated the epoxy bonding in due time. Also keep in mind that all DEEP diving subs are sphere shaped with a single entry point to withstand the pressure. Cylinder shaped Sub hulls are used for the military to accommodate various living sections. But these subs cannot go deeper than 1500 feet. The Russian Titanium subs are the only ones that can dive that deep.
A defense attorney who worked federal cases watched her mentor and several former prosecutors go on television and get paid to say the most dramatic crap possible that would never have been a reality while they were working at DOJ. Cable news will happily pay people to make stuff up, because their job isn't to inform people anymore, it's to generate ad revenue.
@@newstandardaccountwell yeah but they’re the ones with the access because it takes a finite amount of time to figure that out, so until that happens there is no information and no one has any access to anything, speculating at that point is in no way helpful, and can easily be harmful.
@@Andria-Panda I disagree that there was no information, there was plenty. They had recovered artifacts, pictures, documents, etc. There was plenty of information that could have been released and wouldn't have negatively impacted the investigation.
I wrote this poorly, what i meant to say is that it takes the investigation for those artifacts to be useful in determining what the factual information is.
Not that i would go in this specifice sub. But do you know how many things are "glued" togather these days? Comercial planes, cars, ships, and indeed other subs that have gone very deep. Nothing wrong with gluing done correctly there are plenty of gluing process that create a bond that is stronger than the underlying materials. I would just want to know the people who chose to glue had done there research and where experts in the field.
@@TheDevilWAH no. Sure, glue is used on various things as you mentioned. The entire integrity of commercial aircraft’s etc are not glued together. The wings are not glued on, for example. A cars wheel are not glued on either. The hull of this craft fully depended on the end caps being glued on. That is pure insanity at any depth. Plus, the material differences between titanium and carbon fiber would be obvious to anyone as a point of flex and repeated dives on top of that? You really shouldn’t allow for any excuses. This was an obvious disaster waiting to happen.
I feel bad for the young man that went with his dad…. As a dad myself I would never do anything of this incredible danger to my son or myself for the matter.
Heck my dad knows ive been on water and boats my entire life, still asks if i need a life jacket every time we step on the water. Idea of a father being so ignorant of risk to put his son in that sub is insane
@@hennesseyme9112 I heard that that narrative was bullshit that their aunt said for attention. He actually was excited to see the Titanic and even wanted to make a world record for solving a Rubix cube at the depth of the Titanic. Still none of the passengers deserved that fate, with the exception of Stockton.
Stockton Rush was a modern day Icarus. Instead of flying too close to the sun with wax wings, he sank too close to the titanic with his flawed submersible.
@@louisaa.4614I feel sorry for most of them but the kid dying is so sad, I'm 35 I wouldn't sign that form, as an 18 years old with pressure from my dad I probably would have
Carbon fiber hulls with end caps isnt new, the main issue is the fact that they kept reusing it. It was mainly a 1-2 time use only, but they kept using it. Carbon fiber as a sub for long term use is new, so because it is, it should have been remotely operated to those depths repeatedly, then torn down and inspected to see what damage occurred and how to fix/prevent it. Instead this fella just threw people in and made bank till they all perished.
They also would just store the Titan submersible when it wasnt in use in some random parking lot in direct sunlight/heat over time. In conjunction with everything else. Nothing at all was done correctly when it came to building or storing or piloting the thing
there's also the whole "let's use glue on metal and not score or abrade it, really show 'em we don't care" aspect, although the carbon fiber was obviously as big a problem
@peachy_lili that isn't a "huge" issue as it's the pressure outside that keeps the end caps on, higher the pressure the tighter the fit. The issue seemed to be the small flanges on that cap combined with the carbon fiber hulls center area compressing down, forcing the ends of the hull where the end caps meet onto a slight angle, now all the pressure is on the inner end cap flange and the inner edge of the carbon fiber. It isn't distributed evenly. Stress points essentially, water seeping in from that weak area may have caused further damage if it worked it's way between the CF strands. But gluing the end cap on, it's been done before, it isn't that much of an issue when you could get away without even gluing it on, just the outside 400 atmospheres of pressure alone would force that end cap on tight, no chance of blowing off, unless of course the flanges are too small and your hull is a flexible composite hull
The description suggests the titanium ring is too rigid against the carbon fibre hull. Whenever there is a high pressure condition, due to the depth or a thermal gradient across the metal with the resin body, the carbon fibre hull will deflect differentially relative to the ring. Being a plastic the hull may even suffer some permanent deformation after each dive and the interface between the metal ring and resin body may deteriorate slightly. Some deep stress analysis is clearly essential for this structure. The interface could be beefed up by a thicker hull to reduce the strain differences but that may be costly to the owner. To the structural engineers bonding a full metal ring with a resin cylindrical shell reinforced by carbon fibre is clearly a big risk for the intended water depth.
@@cathybrind2381 Don't take my word for it, check it by running a finite element analysis. If one material having a vastly different stiffness, or Young's modulus, to another one the deformation characteristics must be thoroughly studied. There is no doubt the interface can be a point of stress concentration that can only be mitigated by correct selection of thickness to match the expected load.
@@susanna8612college students didn’t designed the hull. they helped build it. Nasa and boeing were the ones involved in actually designing/engineering, UW apl was the only place that would work with them to source and build their materials
@@gunsumwong3948 any FEA model counts for diddly squat when the assembly procedure is done in such a hand-made fashion. There's no way to model the glued joint in any amount of detail if it's basically a bunch of guys slathering epoxy on and sliding the dome over it in a shop.
Stockton Rush should have taken the advice from the people who were trying to tell him about the dangers. He ignored the warnings, and five people lost their lives. Including himself.
There’s a video (probably many) of someone pulling a vacuum on a 55-gallon steel drum. Even though I knew it would collapse quickly, not slowly crinkle and wrinkle, I still jumped at the instant it flattened. One very brief instant.
@@chip.chippa6416I would humbly disagree with the John Hammond equivalence. John Hammond tried to show and prove, boastfully, how he took almost every conceivable measure in terms of Jurassic Park's operations and safety, emphasizing each of his boastful statements with a gleeful "spared no expense!" remark. Additionally, John Hammond hired the very best of the best from all related fields, and sought, listened, and followed their advices almost all the time. Stockton Rush, from the get-go, tried to cut costs wherever it was possible, showed utter disregard for science by jettisoning it in favour of reckless, untested, unproven, scientifically unsound ideas masked by the lofted labels of "experimentation, exploration, adventure", and seemed to hire or need around him only those people who could/would simply be yes-men to him. Elon Musk, however, does seem to qualify as the real world's John Hammond.
@@chip.chippa6416 John Hammond is just about the perfect comparison. I've been trying to place his vibe since this happened, and that's exactly the character I've been trying to remember.
I'm not any sort of engineer and hindsight is always 20/20. That said, I've been in situations where people die if things don't go according to plan and I've been there often enough to confirm that nothing *EVER* goes completely according to plan. Standard practice includes setting up a mission profile with limits to how far you can depart from it without triggering remedial action. If they hadn't been flying "seat of their pants" they would have had a defined abort level for the runaway descent that was the first sign of a problem. While I wouldn't go so far as to call this a suicide run, the person in charge was totally unqualified in training or temperament for the role he chose to play.
Their was no runaway decent. They droped a few pounds of weight just to slow down the decent. Standard procedure. Up to the point of implosion everything was going as planned. They had no clue anything was wrong.
@@biglew1161 I based that comment on the first "transcript" they released which I now see was discovered to be fictional. The current official transcript shows almost no communication, leaving the crew of the support vessel completely clueless regarding what was happening on the sub. Apparently they created the fictional log in an attempt to cover an operation so slipshod they were worried about possibly facing charges.
Nothing to do with hindsight, multiple experts repeatedly expressed their concern about the safety of the design, oceangate didn't need hindsight, they needed someone other than a maniac, psycho at the helm.
I simply cant get my mind around the idea of gluing a craft together to handle depths and pressures that reduce a contiguous steel sphere by several inches.
You need to know these are not regular glues, some glues are stronger than titanium if aplied right, same thing for welds, there are welds stronger than the metals they join.
Did a few calculations about the total weight of the water acting on the pressure hull of Titan at the depth of the Titanic. I found a figure of 87 000 metric tonnes, 192 000 000 pounds, 95 000 short tonnes, 85 600 long tonnes. The Eiffel Tower weights about 10 000 metric tonnes. A miracle Titan survived a dozen dives.
That's amazing. In my mind I picture how much surface area the Titan would have laying flat on the ground then stacking the iron needed to build multiple Eiffel towers on that. I'm not good at math but the pressure would be like loading a standard pallet, say 40"×48", with enough iron/steel to build the Eiffel tower. They used glue to bond carbon fiber (?) to titanium? I'd rather take a cab ride with Jack Daniels or Jim Beam and most likely live to fight another day. The person(s) that designed and or built that thing was way out of their depth or their mind or both.
That's amazing. In my mind I picture how much surface area the Titan would have laying flat on the ground then stacking the iron needed to build multiple Eiffel towers on that. I'm not good at math but the pressure would be like loading a standard pallet, say 40"×48", with enough iron/steel to build the Eiffel tower. They used glue to bond carbon fiber (?) to titanium? I'd rather take a cab ride with Jack Daniels or Jim Beam and most likely live to fight another day. The person(s) that designed and or built that thing was way out of their depth or their mind or both.
The math is actually quite simple. Depth is 3800 meters, mass of a cubic meter of seawater at 4 degrees Celsius is 1.028 metric tonnes. Gives a weight of 3 906 metric tonnes acting on a square meter. Sorry for the metric units, I live in Europe.
I agree with @Lee-mx51i statement, when I saw how smooth the titanium ring was in the assembly video, and applying bond adhesive ( buttering it up) my thought was the titanium ring should have had some type of bond groves or a knurled finish to increase the surface area to be bonded. Everything I could see in the assembly video looked to smooth for a secure bond.
At Titanic depth the water pressure is roughly 6,000 psi. That would put about 15 million pounds of force on each titanium end cap pushing it into the carbon fiber cylinder. That glue was only necessary to hold the thing together on the surface. Once under water the water pressure alone would press those end caps so tightly against the carbon fiber that no glue would ne necessary.
@@wally7856 Disagree. It's not like water pressure only acted inward in one direction to squeeze the Ti endcaps toward each other against the carbon fiber tube. The Titan was a tube and not a sphere. The shape of the Titan meant water pressure acted in different ways across the hull of the submersible, not uniformly inward like it would have if the pressure hull was made like a lot of other deep sea submersibles like Alvin, which is essentially a Ti sphere. Water pressure would have squeezed inward the tube part of the structure, like a tube of toothpaste that you are squeezing along the entire length of the tube at the same time. Then imagine the ends of this tube supported by the Ti half dome endcaps and Ti ring just at the ends of the tube. Since the middle portion of the tube is not similarly supported by anything since you needed space for the passengers, there is going to be differential flexing that's going to happen....the middle of the tube will get squeezed inward just slightly more than the ends. This is is what the gentleman was refering to. With the middle of the tube getting squeezed a bit more, it would act to pull away the edges of the carbon fiber tube from the Ti ring and endcaps (do this experiment, get an empty can of soda, and just crush the middle part of the can.....you will see the edges of the can pull inward toward the direction of the pressure where you crushed the can). After repeated dives, back and forth motion of pulling on the edges of the tube after each dive is where the failure started to propagate. At those kinds of water pressures, even the smallest space, crack, or inconsistency will be exploited, and the failure will propagate, extremely quickly. The other thing is that depending on what kind of adhesive was used, the nature of the bond might have been like cement. It hardens when it cures. It can become rigid, and depending on the nature of the materials used, such bonds can get brittle. The fact that carbon fiber and Ti are different materials with different reactions of temperture and pressure would mean that the adhesive needed to take into account this kind of differential reaction to temperature and pressure. Not sure if any adhesive is up to that task in these extreme environments. That is why, according to Rush himself, there was a general rule that you don't do that (bond carbon fiber with Ti with adhesive), advice he was famously proud of ignoring.
@@wally7856 I think you are mostly correct that the pressure of the endcaps would hold them in place on the cylinder. I think the failure came about from the small lip on the inside bearing all the force as the tube was squeezed causing the outer edge of the tube to start coming loose from the ring. Once it was too loose all the force popped onto the inner ring which promptly failed and was sheered off. It may have been a sort of rolling zip action around most of the circumference with the rebounding pressure wave after the water hit the rear cap internally causing every part of the lip to be cleanly removed. The differential flexing and non matched properties of the CF and Titanium combined with reaction to repeated stress caused the failure.
"Glue" means adhesive, and some adhesives are much stronger than the materials they join together. Don't be thrown off thinking this is Elmer's white glue or something. (Of course, I'm not saying the glue in this case *was* stronger. Not interested in a debate on this.)
We will never know that the implosion was sudden and they knew nothing - alarms could have been ringing, it could have been an electrical issue leaving them stranded or in freefall
I've never had morbid curiosity about anything as much as I so about this case - no matter how many plausible explanations I hear or read, I simply cannot fathom what happened to the human body in the context of this implosion, and especially at the rate of speed of which it happened at . 😶
The second I saw that I said to myself, “is he kidding with that?” Unbelievable- absolutely unbelievable. Those poor people were dead the second that sub was sealed😞😞🤦🏻♀️
You need an interface between you and the machine. You could use a keyboard, or a touchscreen or even a set of fixed joysticks (how conventional). Everyone is getting fixated on the word "game". When actually the use of this type of interface is not only reliable but incredibly intuitive to the user after thousands of hours of testing by the controller's manufacturer. Using this "game" controller is probably the only good design feature this submarine had.
It was reported that others heard banging of the fiber breaking on previous dives. How do we know what they may have heard seconds before the implosion?
@@Faust1169 Hull noises of some kind happen with EVERY sub when changing depth, safe and well-made ones included. They aren't necessarily an indication of anything, good or bad.
@@GrainneMhaol Try not to make insinuations. We want accuracy. We don't want a lie and go down in one, only to find out you liars covered up that it was a terrifying ordeal and your coverup meant we thought it wasn't and altered our decision..
Great video, very informative.. been waiting for this exact hearing, ie the bottom line what happened!.. and when i saw the 'apply the glue video' which looked so basic like my mother putting icing on a cake with a small spatula, i was stunned thinking "no way this is what they did.."
Poor Suleman Dawood had no business being there. Paternal pressure cost that teen his life. That’s the biggest and most tragic consequence of that entire debacle, and it’s absolutely heart wrenching.
It maybe was a bonding experience. He didn't want to go but at times we tend to tell our kids, don't be scared, I'll be there with you. Perhaps maybe we should listen more.
i dont understand how anyone who works with carbon fiber would ever agree to help build that vehicle. you would KNOW that carbon fiber is terrible under repeated compression.
The explanation of the implosion makes sense, but I am not convinced they were not aware of something unusual happening moments prior, unusual sounds or vibrations as the glue began to fail.
@user-iq2yp1dn1q you are right it directly conflicts Stockton in other testimony saying he had to drop two weights so yes they knew something was definitely wrong. While it happened quick they still knew something was wrong with the testimony plus they lost comms and he had to text .
@@felixcat9318 it's not ignorance at all!!! In other testimony Stockton had to drop two weights so get up as it was dropping too quick so yes they knew something was wrong!! It's your ignorance . While it happened quickly they still were aware the sub had a problem !! Plus they lost comms and he had to text!! A very ignorant comment from yourself!
His testimony is so enlightening. The instant shearing of the forward ring explains so much. And how over numerous dives this would occur. He was there when the wreckage was brought up and had first hand observation.
The way he describes how the failure happened makes complete sense. Basically the constant squeeze/release of the cylinder loosened the (hand glued) seal between the cylinder ande the front end. This is why we build deep water vessels that are spherical in shape! No place on the vessel gets squeezed unequally.
I always wondered ... if titanium and carbon fiber react at the same ratio, under the stress of compression and temperature. Anyways it's always a weak point.
Wanna go for a ride in my home made submarine? Let's travel 20,000 leagues under the sea. It has a window at the front. Don't worry, I used really good glue.
Someone who clearly appreciates the effects of low-cyclic fatigue and its effects on adhesives in a low temperature high stress environment. Thank you sir.
I’m not an engineer., and I don’t think any of us have to to be an engineer to understand that a wound carbon fiber cylinder is more suitable for use, to a degree, as a pressure tank for internal pressure., by the fiber wrapping that would better resist expansion., and not suitable for resisting immense external crushing pressure, we also understand that a cylinder shape isn’t as uniformly resistant to external crushing pressure as a sphere would be., carbon fiber ain’t good at flexing , but good at shattering like porcelain. Stockton, an apparent bright guy, must’ve understood that himself.., but was in denial about what computed data was telling him., refusing to invest in full scale destructive testing or even non destructive tests with published results , belittling those silly notions of safety that cripple innovation , the loud creaks and pops at depth., ignoring the pleas of all experts in the field, his head firmly buried in the sand, yet still attracting enough believers to be on his team to invite wealthy clients on an amazing journey. Fortunately the end came in a nano-second.
As a former pilot of the DSV 4 Sea Cliff with 40 years in "Ocean Engineering," my assessment is the same given the debris that was recovered. The viewport would have been compressed out of the forward dome in the implosion. The rear dome and electronics section was intact, indicating the implosion occurred forward. And the glue line between the forward dome and the untested Carbon Fiber hull would have been the likliest spot. The forward dome was where the crew would enter and exit. Its Weight and Moment would have added stress to the mount side of the hull, where it was glued. A fools notion to descend 16,000 feet in that untested design.
This long since the event and he is obviously, still, shaken up from it. I wouldn't want anything to do with his demons, self inflicted or otherwise. Prayers for the living too.
I used to work at a facility where we had a TVAC chamber that looked exactly like this sub (used for temp and vacuum testing space and aerospace components and circuitry). We had that located in an ISO Cleanroom and had to wear suits, gloves, and hairnets before going anywhere near it. I was surprised that a sub that's supposed to go to such depths wasn't being assembled in a Cleanroom...wtheck?
So the issue with this, they released the statement saying they released weights to ascend fast at 3341 and at 3345 it imploded. If they didnt know there was anything wrong then why try to ascend?
Have you ever seen that forward view port , that kind of pressure force to actually blow that forward acrylic view port with the titanium port ring and the steel lugs with it .😮
The fact Rush thought his knowledge in rocket studies could be used to create some new and groundbreaking advancements into ocean submersive mechanics is straight up terrifying! There's a reason none have attempted it before and that's because space and the ocean although share some similarities they are in the end VASTLY different and so require vastly different approaches in the way crafts for each are built.
Delamination is what happened. People have said the titanium ring wasn't roughed up to hold that glue and the carbon fiber hull together. If you look at the installation videos you can tell how exactly it was designed
5:06 Incredible testimony by this witness. The media reported the youngest passenger might have been reluctant to proceed-and perhaps did so to please his parent-God bless him!
@@anjou6497 dropping weights is routine to slow the rate of descent, and to stabilize a submersible's depth. They would have needed to drop more than 2 in order to stop descending and begin to ascend.
I’m glad to hear that it happened instantaneously and they didn’t know what was happening, nor did they suffer. But what I want to know is how all the regulations, checks and balances, got bypassed by basically a rich bully.
@@adamwhiteson6866 True for the actual dive, but where was it built ? Unfortunately, most "Health & Safety" is more about money and litigation, a case of Wealth & Safety ! A Tragic loss of life, because one man thought he knew better than the experts and didn't listen to others.
Let's see OceanGate's process sheets for the fabrication of the entire submersible, including layup of the carbon fiber hull as well as preparation for and application of the glue used on both ends of the hull.
Just having -gate in the name… I mean that’s the pop culture way of saying this is a controversial thing and he names a shitty submersible company with it
@@AEsir2023 Well, I must have dreamed that I've glued carbon with epoxic glue in the aeronautical industry, I'm so silly. Thanks for your ... intelligent comment.
@@antoniomargallo5317 that’s neat. This is a submersible going 3 miles down on the regular. Guess who else had a background in Aeronautics? The dead CEO. But hey you think you’re smart so go ahead and try what he tried and prove us all wrong. We ll watch.
The sheer amount of sensationalism and misunderstanding of concepts in these comments (and really, the public at large), while not unsurprising is still astounding.
Unfortunately the media (yet again) had absolutely no understanding of the problem and ran with the fact it was made out of carbon fibre. The US Navy has a submersible which uses the exactly the same construction as the Titan. The problem was never the design or the materials used, it was the WAY it was constructed and tested.
It even worked several times at that depth, and deep submersibles generally have short pressure cycle lives before getting serious maintenance (we regularly rebuild aircraft too, to avoid incidents like flight AAH243). We don't really have good test data for designing or evaluating CFRP hulls in this application, but that's solvable.
As Scott Manley said about this, with those kinds of pressures and forces involved, your body stops being biology and becomes physics. Thankfully it would have happened so fast that the brain wouldn't have even registered it and there would have been no pain as this happened faster than the brain and body can process.
A used shop vac hose for the ballast system need to help it rise back up if needed, air purifier that takes carbon dioxide out of the air to produce breathable oxygen forced out by a computer fan & built inside a plastic tote like the ones i use for my winter sweaters,a video game controller that controls its movements. It was built like some kids grade school science project.
They actually tested it. And didn't skimp put on materials. Stockton did not have the money to he making submersibles but his ego wouldn't let him let this go
It's like people climbing Mt. Everest. You know going in it has to be dangerous, risky and you're at the mercy of Mother Nature, and you have to trust people you don't really know. The OceanGate Emperor had no clothes, but the passengers decided to board that janky tin can and go anyway. 😥
Omg they weren't "happy". Rush was putting out that they were having some problems and cracking noises. You KNOW they were damn TERRIFIED. They were deep in the ocean with no way to get immediate help or get out quickly, and they KNEW there were issues. If you or I were in there, and WE heard CRACKING noises, we would be HORRIFIED!!
@@mikeprevost8650 cracking noises were heard in a previous dive, it's more than reasonable to assume they heard cracking noises when they were down there on this dive & we know they were having problems, dropped weights and were trying to get back up to the surface. Plus, there's the document that states that cracking sounds would give them a "warning" there was a problem, and that's probably the reason they dropped the weights to get back to the surface, bc they started hearing the cracking noises (it wasn't supposed to lead to a disaster though)
@@michael-lynn officials lied about the catastrophic event, so they will lie about this too. The transcript probably has Rush slamming the keyboard in a frenzy saying SOS
Ugh, I can’t stand seeing old white dudes saying this shit bc it’s 1) virtue signaling; 2) they’re more likely to speak up; 3) it’s so damn phony, I can’t stand it.what a freaking heal
The reason he didn't want to hire 50 year old grey haired engineers is because they tend to be expensive and less likely to bow to your pressure. Kids, on the other hand...
This guy looks like James Cameron's long lost brother.
Right??? Lmao … I was sure it was James Cameron 😂
@@Rita-ws2frsame only realized out when they said his name at the end
The "GLUE" failed? So why didn't they change it???!
@@mangographics225 I hope you're joking.
Who's that. ?
As Karl Stanley (who built his own submarine with an impeccable safety record) bluntly stated, "Stockton Rush built a mousetrap for billionaires."
The Billionaire Basher!
Stanly said in an interview when he went on his dive in Titan the hull was popping so loud it sounded like .22 caliber gunshots and this was only on a test dive at 100 or so feet deep.
Almost sounds like a heinous plot.
Yes I remember him saying that. He was terrified the one time he got in the piece of crap. He said it was banging and clapping .
Kyle Hill read a transcript of all the warnings that the expedition leader was given and how he just blew through them all.
When you have to sign a contract 7 TIMES saying you might die. I'm OUT !!!
I mean, I did that for skydiving. Hell if I would do an experimental skydive though using some homemade parachute
Most people are perfectly fine risking nothing and accomplishing even less.
@ericbeauchamp7385 what have you done exactly that is so worthy of mention?
@@HandyDandy6 So Rush ends up killing himself and 4 others because of his huge ego and shotty workmanship on a sub THAT MUST BE ABLE TO HANDLE PRESSURE. I would have been more concerned than making money. If your defending this guy you got issues mister, Were talking around 6000 lbs per square inch !!! Glue and duct tape don't cut it
@@petergriemens1878 I think you're misreading what I said
The witness showed great empathy for wanting to make sure the public knew that the people inside didn’t suffer. I very much respect that
he also deflected the fact that rush, misrepresented ocean gate by referring to the three decades of safety in the submersible community well concealing the fact that community had grave concerning the construction and operation of the carbon fiber submersible. If Rush had not conducted himself in this dangerous fashion - and concealed the danger from his customers - the next of Ken would not now be suffering.
There was time between the failure of control system and the implosion. They may not have felt anything, but they most likely were in terror knowing what was about to befall them.
They heard and reported hearing cracking noises before contact was lost. So they may have endured minutes of terror knowing they were most likely about to die.
@@lohphat I hope not, but you are probably right. I remember reading that transcript of texts with Polar Prince while they were returning up. Issues with velocity I think and alarms going off. Perhaps it’s enough to say they didn’t feel physical pain or endured drowning.
They knew.
@@karolinabaker7637 The first transcript of the communication that surfaced (badumm tss) after the incident is already proven to be fake. The actual transcript got published a few days ago and it does not indicate any awareness of the passengers. Contact was lost abruptly without ANY report of problems on the way down.
He's genuinely empathetic about those on Titan. You can hear the sorrow in his voice that this happened.
You’ve got to respect this guy for wanting to protect the families from imagining their loved ones suffering.
It's about money. It's always about money.
As someone with a basic understanding of engineering, this makes sense. When I watched the video of them HAND GLUEING the titanium to the carbon fiber, I was like NO WAY..
They didn’t even run test on it after. Industry standard. They may as well had put them in an untested trash can
It would seem that once they went from a sphere to anything else, the design would be unpredictable. I'm sure no one is going to use this design again or try to improve it .
I was just telling my husband about the hand glueing. It’s ridiculous. “Passengers” were lied to by this megalomaniac (not the man testifying but the owner - I don’t even want to write his name. No more media attention for him!)
Although the catastrophic failure of the glue-line was instantaneous, they all already knew they were in peril because they were shedding weight ... dropping balasts and skids to stop descent. By the text and recorder information, You cannot another day.They understood they were having malfunctions. They were taking evasive of actions.
Does anyone think he was suicidal? It seems like he was. And he didn’t want to go alone..
my guy created that sub as if it was an arts and crafts project …
…or an overdue 5th-grade science project
Definitely threw it together like a kid trying to get brownie points for turning in his science project early. Only to have it be flaming 💩 because he skipped all of the important, actual science, parts.
It was a Rush job. 😆
Like a middle aged woman with a glue gun! High end dupes we (being middle aged women with glueguns) call them.
Literally used GLUE to throw it together 💀
Phenomenal how blunt and chilling reality is. I got more out of his six minute testimony than all the news coverage of this horrible event.
Oceangate was a sh*tshow
I know, all the other comment section experts have told us.
OceanGate is still a thing unfortunately
Stockton is dead- but he wasn’t the only man in that company 😤 every single person who looked the other way needs to be punished.
Still is 💩 📺
Other experts disagree and categorize it as a clown show.
Arrogance - one of the biggest killers in human history.
Second to religion.
Don’t forget Mosquitoes #1🦟🥴🤢☠️👻
Heart disease?
Arrogance leads to failure. Here is a perfect example.
I was entertaining *"HUBRIS"* What a complete *N.U.T.J.O.B.* UGG! 🙄
Heart-felt testimony from someone in a position to know.
A major burn to a lot of RUclips channels spreading misinformation, especially the fake transcripts...
Wow- absolutely WOW! Everyone knew that sub was NOT adequate to dive that depth. Experts told him, warned everyone and told him time and time again. Stockton Rush was so arrogant he actually murdered those poor people!😞😞😞
They weren't exactly poor.
@@littleponygirl666they were still human lives that had value, and the fact that he murdered them makes them poor, as in someone to feel sorry for.
He was more over confident than arrogant
@@littleponygirl666 One was a kid who had no wealth of his own. He was a guest on someone else's dime, effectively poor.
@@AllfatherBlack He was the son and heir to a passenger.
Scott Manley has a good video here on You Tube where he discusses the video of the wreckage before it was recovered, while it was still sitting on the ocean floor. He came to the same conclusion as Catterson about where the hull failure took place (at the forward carbon fiber/titanium interface), pointing out that much of the hull had actually been compacted into the rear titanium dome, which you can see in the footage. Thus it would appear that the implosion began at the forward end where the cylindrical hull met the forward dome, with the force of the implosion driving everything towards the rear except for the front dome, which was blown forwards. He explains it better than I can.
I call him Manly Scott. He could talk about basket weaving & make it sound fascinating.
If you watch the guy prep the area the glue was to be applied on the dome you can watch him with his ungloved hands touch/hold onto the area he had just cleaned a few times. Sweat, oils, dirt and maybe other chemicals he had gotten on his hands that day laid on that glue line weakening an already weak spot...If you watch the video it's easy to see the guy put his hands right on the spots he just prepped right before the glue was applied.
Insanity 😮
Here's another example as to why, women, outlived most men!!!
Unbelievable 🤨😱😳
I think I’ve seen the video you’re talking about and your right. He went into amazing detail about it.
Isn't it kind of a moot point, since we now already know it's completely idiotic to build a human-piloted deep-sea craft out of carbon fiber anyway?
Thank you Mr Catterson, I can tell how much this hurt you. The truth is important to many.
Amber Heard pooped in Johnny Depp’s bed
"Glue-line" + "Submarine" = Screen door.
When the words "glue" and "submersible" are put together, there's really only one result.
I'm in no way a defender of OceanGate, but the US Navy also made a submarine with a carbon fiber hull and titanium domes and rings like OceanGate and tested it to depths deeper than OceanGate. The US Navy also used an epoxy glue to fuse their carbon fiber hull to the titanium rings.
This is heartbreaking. This witness's anguish and heartache over what he's seen, what he knows to be true and what he is now telling the world about this tragedy is written all over his face and is heard in his voice. I hope, someday, he finds the inner peace that seems to have been lost during this investigation and his part in it.
Ive worked bondeding metals to woven fibres and watching them doing the gluing, no gloves, no hats or overalls, no blasted or etched surfaces, no solvents used to degrease surfaces, rag used to wipe metal then a hand ( no gloves) is placed on it ( deposits grease). No wonder it came unbonded. 😟
Yeah, I watched that “prep” video too. Even Earl Scheib paint shops wear gloves when final prepping for a $249.99 paint job
So, they basically did a step-by-step process I use to bond a loose fence in my yard 😅
Yep, no cleanroom environment like you would see at NASA contractors. I could not believe how the adhesive was hand applied by a Home Depot spatula in an open air facility. 4 innocent lives lost...
@@glennkoenig6078 not every tool has to be "certified" to be adequate. you can use your hands to mix and apply adhesives as long as you're wearing gloves. However, when working on such highly stressed items you HAVE to do it properly. Something they didnt do.
Let alone any kind of 90 degree bond with composites and metals should never be just with adhesive. You always need support structures. Like more layers of carbon laying over the titanium.
@@cestaron634 Proper glue bonding of the surface would NOT have mattered in the long run. Because the wound carbon fiber hull was delaminating on every dive. Hence the cracking sounds heard. So that the hull walls would have leaked anyway in due time. Also the use of Titanium and Wound Carbon fiber has different rates of Contraction and Expansion and Modulus of Elasticity that would have defeated the epoxy bonding in due time. Also keep in mind that all DEEP diving subs are sphere shaped with a single entry point to withstand the pressure. Cylinder shaped Sub hulls are used for the military to accommodate various living sections. But these subs cannot go deeper than 1500 feet. The Russian Titanium subs are the only ones that can dive that deep.
He was right about the media speculation. I saw multiple experts say “I don’t want to speculate….. but” *goes on the explain every possible theory*
Yeah but that's easy to say when you're the group controlling the information - "don't speculate, leave it to us"
A defense attorney who worked federal cases watched her mentor and several former prosecutors go on television and get paid to say the most dramatic crap possible that would never have been a reality while they were working at DOJ.
Cable news will happily pay people to make stuff up, because their job isn't to inform people anymore, it's to generate ad revenue.
@@newstandardaccountwell yeah but they’re the ones with the access because it takes a finite amount of time to figure that out, so until that happens there is no information and no one has any access to anything, speculating at that point is in no way helpful, and can easily be harmful.
@@Andria-Panda I disagree that there was no information, there was plenty. They had recovered artifacts, pictures, documents, etc. There was plenty of information that could have been released and wouldn't have negatively impacted the investigation.
I wrote this poorly, what i meant to say is that it takes the investigation for those artifacts to be useful in determining what the factual information is.
If Elmers can hold macaroni on paper, it can surely hold a submarine together. Probably.
I tried making a macaroni submersible. It worked fine until I put it in boiling water. But at least it was tasty with a nice marinara sauce.
You need to use the Elmer's Metallic Glue; it comes in a couple of colors. Maybe they didn't use the right color.
😂😂😂
I’m sorry. This is HYSTERICAL!!!!! 😂
Intelligent man. Sad circumstances 😢
Unfortunately, intelligence and arrogance often go hand in hand..
@romeysiamese6662
Sad, yes, but infuriating, too. Unfortunately, hubris is only actionable when it's too late.
I wouldn't go 10' under water in a submersible that had been glued together. That is complete suicide.
USING A ATARI JOYSTICK IN A GLUED SUB!
NICE MOVE CAPT
RIP BUTTHEAD
Thank you- expert of all things.
The comment section salutes you 🫡
Not that i would go in this specifice sub. But do you know how many things are "glued" togather these days? Comercial planes, cars, ships, and indeed other subs that have gone very deep.
Nothing wrong with gluing done correctly there are plenty of gluing process that create a bond that is stronger than the underlying materials. I would just want to know the people who chose to glue had done there research and where experts in the field.
@@TheDevilWAH no. Sure, glue is used on various things as you mentioned. The entire integrity of commercial aircraft’s etc are not glued together. The wings are not glued on, for example. A cars wheel are not glued on either. The hull of this craft fully depended on the end caps being glued on. That is pure insanity at any depth. Plus, the material differences between titanium and carbon fiber would be obvious to anyone as a point of flex and repeated dives on top of that? You really shouldn’t allow for any excuses. This was an obvious disaster waiting to happen.
You underestimate how good glue can be, especially when it's not the ONLY method of fastening.
I feel bad for the young man that went with his dad…. As a dad myself I would never do anything of this incredible danger to my son or myself for the matter.
Heck my dad knows ive been on water and boats my entire life, still asks if i need a life jacket every time we step on the water. Idea of a father being so ignorant of risk to put his son in that sub is insane
He was his stepfather, actually
@@JohannBaritonoNo it was his son. Regardless both of them should never been onboard that contraption.
His son didn't want to go; he was scared.
@@hennesseyme9112 I heard that that narrative was bullshit that their aunt said for attention. He actually was excited to see the Titanic and even wanted to make a world record for solving a Rubix cube at the depth of the Titanic.
Still none of the passengers deserved that fate, with the exception of Stockton.
Absolutely chilling testimony.
Stockton Rush was a modern day Icarus. Instead of flying too close to the sun with wax wings, he sank too close to the titanic with his flawed submersible.
I like his silly, pretentious name though.
Love the comparison.
he's just a cheap jew, the world is full of them
@Soooooooooooonicable
One of the best metaphors - if Icarus took others out with him.
That comparison gives this psychopath too much dignity.
Seems the oceangate guy was on a silent suicide mission and wanted to take some people with him 🤔
Was a fool, just desperate for more and more quick money
@@erictorres7743 full of his own bullshit , just so sad for the young guy as he had a feeling not to go ☹️
@@louisaa.4614I feel sorry for most of them but the kid dying is so sad, I'm 35 I wouldn't sign that form, as an 18 years old with pressure from my dad I probably would have
@@robertjamesonmusic probably even worse and more embarrassing than that is he already had money and was just ego-chasing Cameron
i don't think so.
i think he had a lot more balls than brains.
This guy is awesome. Straight to the point and with logic
Carbon fiber hulls with end caps isnt new, the main issue is the fact that they kept reusing it.
It was mainly a 1-2 time use only, but they kept using it.
Carbon fiber as a sub for long term use is new, so because it is, it should have been remotely operated to those depths repeatedly, then torn down and inspected to see what damage occurred and how to fix/prevent it.
Instead this fella just threw people in and made bank till they all perished.
They also would just store the Titan submersible when it wasnt in use in some random parking lot in direct sunlight/heat over time. In conjunction with everything else. Nothing at all was done correctly when it came to building or storing or piloting the thing
there's also the whole "let's use glue on metal and not score or abrade it, really show 'em we don't care" aspect, although the carbon fiber was obviously as big a problem
@peachy_lili that isn't a "huge" issue as it's the pressure outside that keeps the end caps on, higher the pressure the tighter the fit.
The issue seemed to be the small flanges on that cap combined with the carbon fiber hulls center area compressing down, forcing the ends of the hull where the end caps meet onto a slight angle, now all the pressure is on the inner end cap flange and the inner edge of the carbon fiber. It isn't distributed evenly.
Stress points essentially, water seeping in from that weak area may have caused further damage if it worked it's way between the CF strands.
But gluing the end cap on, it's been done before, it isn't that much of an issue when you could get away without even gluing it on, just the outside 400 atmospheres of pressure alone would force that end cap on tight, no chance of blowing off, unless of course the flanges are too small and your hull is a flexible composite hull
I read somewhere that Rush wanted to get 1 more use out of that piece of 💩submersible before trashing it. His luck obviously ran out. What a 🤡
I think this was it's 12th or 13th dive to depth
The description suggests the titanium ring is too rigid against the carbon fibre hull. Whenever there is a high pressure condition, due to the depth or a thermal gradient across the metal with the resin body, the carbon fibre hull will deflect differentially relative to the ring. Being a plastic the hull may even suffer some permanent deformation after each dive and the interface between the metal ring and resin body may deteriorate slightly. Some deep stress analysis is clearly essential for this structure. The interface could be beefed up by a thicker hull to reduce the strain differences but that may be costly to the owner.
To the structural engineers bonding a full metal ring with a resin cylindrical shell reinforced by carbon fibre is clearly a big risk for the intended water depth.
Well, in this case those "engineers" were college students.
You reckon?
@@cathybrind2381 Don't take my word for it, check it by running a finite element analysis. If one material having a vastly different stiffness, or Young's modulus, to another one the deformation characteristics must be thoroughly studied. There is no doubt the interface can be a point of stress concentration that can only be mitigated by correct selection of thickness to match the expected load.
@@susanna8612college students didn’t designed the hull. they helped build it. Nasa and boeing were the ones involved in actually designing/engineering, UW apl was the only place that would work with them to source and build their materials
@@gunsumwong3948 any FEA model counts for diddly squat when the assembly procedure is done in such a hand-made fashion. There's no way to model the glued joint in any amount of detail if it's basically a bunch of guys slathering epoxy on and sliding the dome over it in a shop.
Stockton Rush should have taken the advice from the people who were trying to tell him about the dangers. He ignored the warnings, and five people lost their lives. Including himself.
He’s now mashed potato
@@Cookatron Stockton Mush
Another engineer had gone down on a dive (the Irish guy) & he testified they got into an argument after Rush crashed it & threw the control at him 🎮 😮
He was bound and determined to do thongs his way and not the correct way, and it cost those people thier lives.
American mentality, they think regulation hold back innovation. In a certain way it does, but it ensures no tragedies happen.
There’s a video (probably many) of someone pulling a vacuum on a 55-gallon steel drum. Even though I knew it would collapse quickly, not slowly crinkle and wrinkle, I still jumped at the instant it flattened. One very brief instant.
And the pressure differential you saw in that experiment there was 1 atmosphere, not 400.
Rush was the stuff of monsters - what happens when Dunning-Kruger has unlimited funding.
X, Tesla and Space-X comes to mind.
@@barryulrich2170Naa he actually uses engineers advice.
Stockton is more outlandish. I'd say he's the John Hammond of the real world.
@@chip.chippa6416I would humbly disagree with the John Hammond equivalence. John Hammond tried to show and prove, boastfully, how he took almost every conceivable measure in terms of Jurassic Park's operations and safety, emphasizing each of his boastful statements with a gleeful "spared no expense!" remark. Additionally, John Hammond hired the very best of the best from all related fields, and sought, listened, and followed their advices almost all the time.
Stockton Rush, from the get-go, tried to cut costs wherever it was possible, showed utter disregard for science by jettisoning it in favour of reckless, untested, unproven, scientifically unsound ideas masked by the lofted labels of "experimentation, exploration, adventure", and seemed to hire or need around him only those people who could/would simply be yes-men to him.
Elon Musk, however, does seem to qualify as the real world's John Hammond.
@@chip.chippa6416 John Hammond is just about the perfect comparison. I've been trying to place his vibe since this happened, and that's exactly the character I've been trying to remember.
Agreed
I'm not any sort of engineer and hindsight is always 20/20. That said, I've been in situations where people die if things don't go according to plan and I've been there often enough to confirm that nothing *EVER* goes completely according to plan. Standard practice includes setting up a mission profile with limits to how far you can depart from it without triggering remedial action. If they hadn't been flying "seat of their pants" they would have had a defined abort level for the runaway descent that was the first sign of a problem. While I wouldn't go so far as to call this a suicide run, the person in charge was totally unqualified in training or temperament for the role he chose to play.
Their was no runaway decent. They droped a few pounds of weight just to slow down the decent. Standard procedure. Up to the point of implosion everything was going as planned. They had no clue anything was wrong.
I also agree that Stockton was not qualified to make the decisions he made. He fired everyone that tried to warn him of the dangerous choices he made.
@@biglew1161 I based that comment on the first "transcript" they released which I now see was discovered to be fictional. The current official transcript shows almost no communication, leaving the crew of the support vessel completely clueless regarding what was happening on the sub. Apparently they created the fictional log in an attempt to cover an operation so slipshod they were worried about possibly facing charges.
Nothing to do with hindsight, multiple experts repeatedly expressed their concern about the safety of the design, oceangate didn't need hindsight, they needed someone other than a maniac, psycho at the helm.
I simply cant get my mind around the idea of gluing a craft together to handle depths and pressures that reduce a contiguous steel sphere by several inches.
You're remembered for the rules you break.
@@qarnos And dying breaking those rules
These are rules that were made with the blood of victims
US navy have done it - it's not new - sorry can't recall the craft
You need to know these are not regular glues, some glues are stronger than titanium if aplied right, same thing for welds, there are welds stronger than the metals they join.
Did a few calculations about the total weight of the water acting on the pressure hull of Titan at the depth of the Titanic. I found a figure of 87 000 metric tonnes, 192 000 000 pounds, 95 000 short tonnes, 85 600 long tonnes. The Eiffel Tower weights about 10 000 metric tonnes. A miracle Titan survived a dozen dives.
That's amazing. In my mind I picture how much surface area the Titan would have laying flat on the ground then stacking the iron needed to build multiple Eiffel towers on that. I'm not good at math but the pressure would be like loading a standard pallet, say 40"×48", with enough iron/steel to build the Eiffel tower. They used glue to bond carbon fiber (?) to titanium? I'd rather take a cab ride with Jack Daniels or Jim Beam and most likely live to fight another day. The person(s) that designed and or built that thing was way out of their depth or their mind or both.
That's amazing. In my mind I picture how much surface area the Titan would have laying flat on the ground then stacking the iron needed to build multiple Eiffel towers on that. I'm not good at math but the pressure would be like loading a standard pallet, say 40"×48", with enough iron/steel to build the Eiffel tower. They used glue to bond carbon fiber (?) to titanium? I'd rather take a cab ride with Jack Daniels or Jim Beam and most likely live to fight another day. The person(s) that designed and or built that thing was way out of their depth or their mind or both.
The math is actually quite simple. Depth is 3800 meters, mass of a cubic meter of seawater at 4 degrees Celsius is 1.028 metric tonnes. Gives a weight of 3 906 metric tonnes acting on a square meter. Sorry for the metric units, I live in Europe.
I agree with @Lee-mx51i statement, when I saw how smooth the titanium ring was in the assembly video, and applying bond adhesive
( buttering it up) my thought was the titanium ring should have had some type of bond groves or a knurled finish to increase the surface area to be bonded. Everything I could see in the assembly video looked to smooth for a secure bond.
At Titanic depth the water pressure is roughly 6,000 psi. That would put about 15 million pounds of force on each titanium end cap pushing it into the carbon fiber cylinder. That glue was only necessary to hold the thing together on the surface. Once under water the water pressure alone would press those end caps so tightly against the carbon fiber that no glue would ne necessary.
@@wally7856 Disagree. It's not like water pressure only acted inward in one direction to squeeze the Ti endcaps toward each other against the carbon fiber tube. The Titan was a tube and not a sphere. The shape of the Titan meant water pressure acted in different ways across the hull of the submersible, not uniformly inward like it would have if the pressure hull was made like a lot of other deep sea submersibles like Alvin, which is essentially a Ti sphere. Water pressure would have squeezed inward the tube part of the structure, like a tube of toothpaste that you are squeezing along the entire length of the tube at the same time. Then imagine the ends of this tube supported by the Ti half dome endcaps and Ti ring just at the ends of the tube. Since the middle portion of the tube is not similarly supported by anything since you needed space for the passengers, there is going to be differential flexing that's going to happen....the middle of the tube will get squeezed inward just slightly more than the ends. This is is what the gentleman was refering to. With the middle of the tube getting squeezed a bit more, it would act to pull away the edges of the carbon fiber tube from the Ti ring and endcaps (do this experiment, get an empty can of soda, and just crush the middle part of the can.....you will see the edges of the can pull inward toward the direction of the pressure where you crushed the can). After repeated dives, back and forth motion of pulling on the edges of the tube after each dive is where the failure started to propagate. At those kinds of water pressures, even the smallest space, crack, or inconsistency will be exploited, and the failure will propagate, extremely quickly.
The other thing is that depending on what kind of adhesive was used, the nature of the bond might have been like cement. It hardens when it cures. It can become rigid, and depending on the nature of the materials used, such bonds can get brittle. The fact that carbon fiber and Ti are different materials with different reactions of temperture and pressure would mean that the adhesive needed to take into account this kind of differential reaction to temperature and pressure. Not sure if any adhesive is up to that task in these extreme environments. That is why, according to Rush himself, there was a general rule that you don't do that (bond carbon fiber with Ti with adhesive), advice he was famously proud of ignoring.
@@wally7856 well it didn't work that way did it?
@@wally7856 I'd try watching AND listening to the video in full before typing again. Seriously.
@@wally7856 I think you are mostly correct that the pressure of the endcaps would hold them in place on the cylinder.
I think the failure came about from the small lip on the inside bearing all the force as the tube was squeezed causing the outer edge of the tube to start coming loose from the ring. Once it was too loose all the force popped onto the inner ring which promptly failed and was sheered off. It may have been a sort of rolling zip action around most of the circumference with the rebounding pressure wave after the water hit the rear cap internally causing every part of the lip to be cleanly removed. The differential flexing and non matched properties of the CF and Titanium combined with reaction to repeated stress caused the failure.
I appreciate his knowledge. I'm sure testifying was difficult. It's just a tragedy that no one could or would stop Stockton Rush.
He stopped himself. He’s now mashed potato.
I like this guy. Tells it straight and with compassion. No b/s. Knows his stuff.
I'm sorry but its odd hearing the pressures they're dealing with and hearing glue. GLUE??!!
Unreal isn't it???
I mean if Elmers can hold macaroni on paper, it can surely hold a submarine together.
@@randomgrinn🤣🤣🤣
"Glue" means adhesive, and some adhesives are much stronger than the materials they join together. Don't be thrown off thinking this is Elmer's white glue or something. (Of course, I'm not saying the glue in this case *was* stronger. Not interested in a debate on this.)
You're gonna need LOTS of glue!
That is very compassionate of him to share that.
Only if it turns out to be true.
He would have been more compassionate if he told them that the sub is not safe.. stating the law of physics has nothing to do with compassion..
We will never know that the implosion was sudden and they knew nothing - alarms could have been ringing, it could have been an electrical issue leaving them stranded or in freefall
Imagine going from one atmospheric pressure to 375 times atmospheric pressure in less time than you can even think to blink your eyes.
I've never had morbid curiosity about anything as much as I so about this case - no matter how many plausible explanations I hear or read, I simply cannot fathom what happened to the human body in the context of this implosion, and especially at the rate of speed of which it happened at . 😶
The fact that he [SR] couldn't compare the glue to anything more technical than *peanut butter* would be all the indication I'd need.
I appreciate this information. He delivered it so compassionately.
when you saw the guy using a video game controller, I thought 'wow, surely not'??!!
The second I saw that I said to myself, “is he kidding with that?” Unbelievable- absolutely unbelievable. Those poor people were dead the second that sub was sealed😞😞🤦🏻♀️
We use those controllers for certain things in the military too. They're more common than you think
You need an interface between you and the machine. You could use a keyboard, or a touchscreen or even a set of fixed joysticks (how conventional).
Everyone is getting fixated on the word "game". When actually the use of this type of interface is not only reliable but incredibly intuitive to the user after thousands of hours of testing by the controller's manufacturer. Using this "game" controller is probably the only good design feature this submarine had.
Yeah that’s not an issue at all. Military drones are piloted in a very similar way
US nuclear subs use Xbox controllers. That wasn't definitely not the issue.
It was reported that others heard banging of the fiber breaking on previous dives. How do we know what they may have heard seconds before the implosion?
Presumably they did. Rush and PH would have considered it normal. It would have been terrifying for the 2 Pakistani passengers.
@@cwcarson Why would it be normal? The material breaking means it would weaken.
@@Faust1169 Hull noises of some kind happen with EVERY sub when changing depth, safe and well-made ones included. They aren't necessarily an indication of anything, good or bad.
Despite all evidence, some people really like to think of the victims suffering. Bizarre.
@@GrainneMhaol Try not to make insinuations. We want accuracy. We don't want a lie and go down in one, only to find out you liars covered up that it was a terrifying ordeal and your coverup meant we thought it wasn't and altered our decision..
Great video, very informative.. been waiting for this exact hearing, ie the bottom line what happened!.. and when i saw the 'apply the glue video' which looked so basic like my mother putting icing on a cake with a small spatula, i was stunned thinking "no way this is what they did.."
Poor Suleman Dawood had no business being there. Paternal pressure cost that teen his life. That’s the biggest and most tragic consequence of that entire debacle, and it’s absolutely heart wrenching.
It maybe was a bonding experience. He didn't want to go but at times we tend to tell our kids, don't be scared, I'll be there with you. Perhaps maybe we should listen more.
i dont understand how anyone who works with carbon fiber would ever agree to help build that vehicle. you would KNOW that carbon fiber is terrible under repeated compression.
But they are saying it wasnt specifically the carbon fiber that failed
@@beanj580 but it did have a part in it, probably not as much as the glue failing but the carbon fiber was already proven to be subpar
Very clear explanation with needed detail.
The explanation of the implosion makes sense, but I am not convinced they were not aware of something unusual happening moments prior, unusual sounds or vibrations as the glue began to fail.
Your ignorance doesn't alter the fact that the implosion occurred within a nanosecond, without any warning.
"Crackle" "Did you guys hear th...............................................
@user-iq2yp1dn1q you are right it directly conflicts Stockton in other testimony saying he had to drop two weights so yes they knew something was definitely wrong. While it happened quick they still knew something was wrong with the testimony plus they lost comms and he had to text .
@@felixcat9318 it's not ignorance at all!!! In other testimony Stockton had to drop two weights so get up as it was dropping too quick so yes they knew something was wrong!! It's your ignorance . While it happened quickly they still were aware the sub had a problem !! Plus they lost comms and he had to text!! A very ignorant comment from yourself!
@mw12349 So how does dropping two weights imply knowledge of impending glue line failure ?
His testimony is so enlightening. The instant shearing of the forward ring explains so much. And how over numerous dives this would occur. He was there when the wreckage was brought up and had first hand observation.
The way he describes how the failure happened makes complete sense. Basically the constant squeeze/release of the cylinder loosened the (hand glued) seal between the cylinder ande the front end. This is why we build deep water vessels that are spherical in shape! No place on the vessel gets squeezed unequally.
I always wondered ... if titanium and carbon fiber react at the same ratio, under the stress of compression and temperature. Anyways it's always a weak point.
I’m appreciate this Professional’s testimony.
He is still struck by the coverage of this tragedy.
Thank you, Sir.
i like this mans gestures
Well, that's a blessing. I do think about that young man who went down in the Titan and I am glad to hear that he likely did not suffer.
Wanna go for a ride in my home made submarine? Let's travel 20,000 leagues under the sea. It has a window at the front. Don't worry, I used really good glue.
Someone who clearly appreciates the effects of low-cyclic fatigue and its effects on adhesives in a low temperature high stress environment. Thank you sir.
I’m not an engineer., and I don’t think any of us have to to be an engineer to understand that a wound carbon fiber cylinder is more suitable for use, to a degree, as a pressure tank for internal pressure., by the fiber wrapping that would better resist expansion., and not suitable for resisting immense external crushing pressure, we also understand that a cylinder shape isn’t as uniformly resistant to external crushing pressure as a sphere would be., carbon fiber ain’t good at flexing , but good at shattering like porcelain. Stockton, an apparent bright guy, must’ve understood that himself.., but was in denial about what computed data was telling him., refusing to invest in full scale destructive testing or even non destructive tests with published results , belittling those silly notions of safety that cripple innovation , the loud creaks and pops at depth., ignoring the pleas of all experts in the field, his head firmly buried in the sand, yet still attracting enough believers to be on his team to invite wealthy clients on an amazing journey. Fortunately the end came in a nano-second.
As a former pilot of the DSV 4 Sea Cliff with 40 years in "Ocean Engineering," my assessment is the same given the debris that was recovered. The viewport would have been compressed out of the forward dome in the implosion. The rear dome and electronics section was intact, indicating the implosion occurred forward. And the glue line between the forward dome and the untested Carbon Fiber hull would have been the likliest spot. The forward dome was where the crew would enter and exit. Its Weight and Moment would have added stress to the mount side of the hull, where it was glued. A fools notion to descend 16,000 feet in that untested design.
This long since the event and he is obviously, still, shaken up from it. I wouldn't want anything to do with his demons, self inflicted or otherwise. Prayers for the living too.
I used to work at a facility where we had a TVAC chamber that looked exactly like this sub (used for temp and vacuum testing space and aerospace components and circuitry). We had that located in an ISO Cleanroom and had to wear suits, gloves, and hairnets before going anywhere near it. I was surprised that a sub that's supposed to go to such depths wasn't being assembled in a Cleanroom...wtheck?
So the issue with this, they released the statement saying they released weights to ascend fast at 3341 and at 3345 it imploded. If they didnt know there was anything wrong then why try to ascend?
Reducing their descent, not ascending
It sounds suspicious but slowing the decent makes more sense.
@@pickleman40 Respectfully, I did consider this as well.
@@IanDodatothey were reducing the speed of their descent not trying to ascend.
@@IanDodato so why did you claim they dropped weight to ascend?.
Have you ever seen that forward view port , that kind of pressure force to actually blow that forward acrylic view port with the titanium port ring and the steel lugs with it .😮
you mean the bonding between a composite material that compresses and recede and titanium that is known for it's stiffness was bad?
The fact Rush thought his knowledge in rocket studies could be used to create some new and groundbreaking advancements into ocean submersive mechanics is straight up terrifying! There's a reason none have attempted it before and that's because space and the ocean although share some similarities they are in the end VASTLY different and so require vastly different approaches in the way crafts for each are built.
I'm surprised Rush didn't offer rides over Niagara Falls in that thing.
They would have been far safer over those than down there.
Delamination is what happened. People have said the titanium ring wasn't roughed up to hold that glue and the carbon fiber hull together. If you look at the installation videos you can tell how exactly it was designed
Darwin award nominated
Winner
Thank you, sir.
HG Tudor's YT series on Stockton Rush explains all anyone needs to know about the man and this debacle.
5:06 Incredible testimony by this witness. The media reported the youngest passenger might have been reluctant to proceed-and perhaps did so to please his parent-God bless him!
This is unbelievable!!
"... at some point, safety is just pure waste..."
That's actually true. Problem is, Rush obviously had no idea where that "point" was located.
Not a certification or engineer in sight, just a genius submarine designer living in the moment
@@ryanrehfuss
Or, well, DYING in the moment...
I know I had trouble sleeping thinking about them on the bottom of the ocean in the cold dark waiting to be rescued. Horrible to think about. RIP
You didn't listen the the final part of the video. They were never waiting to be rescued.
@@-danR They were dropping ballast, of course they knew they were in grave danger....
We know that now. But false hope was given for a few days. Remember the oxygen and hours they had left?? Sad.
@@anjou6497 dropping weights is routine to slow the rate of descent, and to stabilize a submersible's depth. They would have needed to drop more than 2 in order to stop descending and begin to ascend.
@@mikeprevost8650 Which they did, apparently.....
I thought this was Jim Cameron with someone talking over him or somehow his brother because I thought the placard said Tym Cameron. LOL
I’m glad to hear that it happened instantaneously and they didn’t know what was happening, nor did they suffer. But what I want to know is how all the regulations, checks and balances, got bypassed by basically a rich bully.
He operated in international waters which put him out of reach of regulatory bodies.
@@adamwhiteson6866 True for the actual dive, but where was it built ?
Unfortunately, most "Health & Safety" is more about money and litigation, a case of Wealth & Safety ! A Tragic loss of life, because one man thought he knew better than the experts and didn't listen to others.
Let's see OceanGate's process sheets for the fabrication of the entire submersible, including layup of the carbon fiber hull as well as preparation for and application of the glue used on both ends of the hull.
Of course they knew something was off, I’m sure they were worried
What evidence do you have to support this assertion?
None. Just making it up .its ridiculous
They dropped their weights. They knew something was wrong.
Just having -gate in the name… I mean that’s the pop culture way of saying this is a controversial thing and he names a shitty submersible company with it
Be thankful for the life you have .
The word “glue” has almost no place in any modern ship design that isn’t made of wood. Certainly not a submersible.
Wrong. Epoxy glue.
@@antoniomargallo5317 wrong, it’s lying at the bottom of the ocean floor.
@@AEsir2023 Well, I must have dreamed that I've glued carbon with epoxic glue in the aeronautical industry, I'm so silly. Thanks for your ... intelligent comment.
@@antoniomargallo5317 that’s neat. This is a submersible going 3 miles down on the regular. Guess who else had a background in Aeronautics? The dead CEO. But hey you think you’re smart so go ahead and try what he tried and prove us all wrong. We ll watch.
The sheer amount of sensationalism and misunderstanding of concepts in these comments (and really, the public at large), while not unsurprising is still astounding.
Yea 🎉 This was my theory all along.
This was my theory before it even happened
Thank you for telling us ( the public ) they didn't suffer . This is something no one ever said during the disastrous event.
Because it wasn't sensational.
@jshepard152 spot on .
Does he mean it wasn't "singing like a mother" when it imploded?
Yeah. The engineer who testified the other day said the CEO told him the sub would be screaming before an implosion
Is that the rain where they were putting glue on a smooth surface, didn't bother to rough it up beforehand
Unfortunately the media (yet again) had absolutely no understanding of the problem and ran with the fact it was made out of carbon fibre.
The US Navy has a submersible which uses the exactly the same construction as the Titan.
The problem was never the design or the materials used, it was the WAY it was constructed and tested.
It even worked several times at that depth, and deep submersibles generally have short pressure cycle lives before getting serious maintenance (we regularly rebuild aircraft too, to avoid incidents like flight AAH243).
We don't really have good test data for designing or evaluating CFRP hulls in this application, but that's solvable.
excellent description
As Scott Manley said about this, with those kinds of pressures and forces involved, your body stops being biology and becomes physics. Thankfully it would have happened so fast that the brain wouldn't have even registered it and there would have been no pain as this happened faster than the brain and body can process.
Didn't he say the body becomes "Physics"?
@@BlueRaven-q2x He said you stop being Biology and become Physics!
@@BlueRaven-q2x yes
@@BlueRaven-q2x Oh yeah that was it :D
I didn't know any of the people on it but at least no one suffered. I was hoping no one did.
Every decent person who heard about this has suffered.
A used shop vac hose for the ballast system need to help it rise back up if needed, air purifier that takes carbon dioxide out of the air to produce breathable oxygen forced out by a computer fan & built inside a plastic tote like the ones i use for my winter sweaters,a video game controller that controls its movements. It was built like some kids grade school science project.
stockton rush before the inevitable: "youre all just JEALOUS of my brilliance, forward thinking and boat loads of CASH im gonna make!"
The US Navy has a submersible that is carbin fiber and titanium, with the same adhesive to secure it. There was no end of use date.
They actually tested it. And didn't skimp put on materials. Stockton did not have the money to he making submersibles but his ego wouldn't let him let this go
It's like people climbing Mt. Everest. You know going in it has to be dangerous, risky and you're at the mercy of Mother Nature, and you have to trust people you don't really know. The OceanGate Emperor had no clothes, but the passengers decided to board that janky tin can and go anyway. 😥
Omg they weren't "happy". Rush was putting out that they were having some problems and cracking noises. You KNOW they were damn TERRIFIED. They were deep in the ocean with no way to get immediate help or get out quickly, and they KNEW there were issues. If you or I were in there, and WE heard CRACKING noises, we would be HORRIFIED!!
You mean the cracking noises described in the 'communications transcript'? That document was debunked as a hoax within a week of being released.
You're referring to a "transcript" that has been shown to be a fake. The transcript released today shows nothing of the sort.
@@mikeprevost8650 cracking noises were heard in a previous dive, it's more than reasonable to assume they heard cracking noises when they were down there on this dive & we know they were having problems, dropped weights and were trying to get back up to the surface. Plus, there's the document that states that cracking sounds would give them a "warning" there was a problem, and that's probably the reason they dropped the weights to get back to the surface, bc they started hearing the cracking noises (it wasn't supposed to lead to a disaster though)
@@mikeprevost8650 Allegedly.
@@michael-lynn officials lied about the catastrophic event, so they will lie about this too. The transcript probably has Rush slamming the keyboard in a frenzy saying SOS
This guys doing well for 98. Seems to be fairly sharp still.
Rush's attitude towards 50 year old white males was a sign that he was a fool.
They Do know everything
he was a 60 yr old guy tho, he had a cocky arrogant attitude of a 60 yr old man it's just that he was in the wrong.
Ugh, I can’t stand seeing old white dudes saying this shit bc it’s 1) virtue signaling; 2) they’re more likely to speak up; 3) it’s so damn phony, I can’t stand it.what a freaking heal
The reason he didn't want to hire 50 year old grey haired engineers is because they tend to be expensive and less likely to bow to your pressure. Kids, on the other hand...
@@qarnos I thought that too.
They suffered from the moment they heard noises ! 😮😮😮 That's why they're not releasing when they started hearing noises...