Nice introduction. I love Mary Renault's books. In her "The Nature of Alexander" she demonstrates how the popular images of Alexander's brutality are unfair and unworthy of credit. It is a great book too! And her only book for children: "The Lion in the Gateway", an account of the "Persian Wars", is a great way of introducing to literature and history and is funny! Thank you for sharing with us your appreciation for Renault's novels. God bless you!
Thanks for the overall review of her work. I just finished The Last of the Wine and found it to be the only honest and complete vision of ancient Athens from the narrator's point of view. The level of acurate detail was astounding and presented the hope and terror of that world. It was hard not believe that a character like Alexios did not exist along side the likes of Lysis and Socrates. It prompted me to reread the Socratic dialogs with her version of the characters in mind. More importantly, I have come to understand how much the classical era has created who we (particularly as an American) are now and the insights given by Renault feel relevant to our current world.
I am completely obsessed with the King Must Die and The Bull from the Sea duo! Mary Renault is an amazing writer yet it’s so difficult to find a platform to talk about her amazing books! Thank you for making this video
So glad I found this video. I have read 4 and intend to read the rest. I love The Last of the Wine for several reasons. It struck me how the fall of the democracy parallels modern threats and behaviors. I am convinced there are perhaps three places in the book where Lysis and Alexias make love, or at least Mary Renault tells us this is where it happens, even though the publishers would not allow concrete evidence of it, beyond gestures and symbolic words. However, I understand there are many fans that will refuse to believe it. They would not be a fan of a book where the two young men were anything more than true and loyal comrades.
Really, there are people who deny that Lysis and Alexias have a sexual relationship!? I wouldn't have thought it possible. I mean, even if you don't understand or don't want to see the subtle hints: at one point Alexias states quite frankly that he was worried that Socrates would be disappointed in them for having taken their "pure" love down to the physical level, but that in the end he (Socrates) was ever so generous and understanding about it. How do they argue that away?? That's almost impressive, this wilful blindness.
@@evastrange I have asked the same question. How do they miss this? In the same way I debated another Renault fan how young Theseus likely was with two of the male characters in The King Must Die. I expect some readers are more comfortable with their denial that men act on their sexuality in that way..
@@evastrange The book's treatment of the issue is complex. It seems very clear, although only by allusion and perambulatory speech, that their relationship becomes physical. But the takeaway seems less clear to me. Sokrates treats them as "friends who have suffered a loss." Which I suppose you could call generous, given his earlier speech about "mortal passions sink[ing] us in mortal pleasures." But Alexias himself also experiences a diminishment of the heroic visions of his youth at the same time, attributing it to "the necessary effect of years." The narrative at least has a certain anxiety about the physical vs. the spiritual, reflective of the anxiety of the philosophers. (People not dealing with this thematic tension *at all* though is certainly ludicrous.)
I think she used to be very well known, but has fallen out of fashion lately. I guess because her books aren't very action-packed and require some work on the part of the reader… I'd be thrilled if you picked up any of her books!
Thank you for explaining her books so well. I started with the Praise Singer, and I agree completely with your opinion on her period style; I will try the Theseus book next since i am more familiar with the story and enjoy the mythology. The books which reference Socrates and Plato should be more accessible too, since we study their philosophies. Greek names are challenging, but classics are complex.
I absolutely agree with your criticism of Renault's depiction of Alexander in 'Fire From Heaven'. I'm currently re-reading the Alexander trilogy (this time in chronological order). Renault's Alexander comes across as a 'Mary Sue' to my (now more mature) mind. He is simply too perfect, in all and every aspect - to the point of becoming irritating and unlikeable (perhaps this was deliberate?). Is he, infact, a monster? Well, in Renault's tale Alexander, aged just twelve years old at the time, kills and beheads a man. Alexander suffers no trauma. Ho hum. And on it goes - the perfect young boy, the perfect teenager, the perfect young adult. I guess he was a son of royalty who imagined he might be a god (and was thus indulged by those around him), but... Well, Renault's writing is often magnificent, no question about that. She had a talent for springing a beautifully constructed sentence upon her reader; I find myself highlighting many just so that I may be able to recall them later. Her tendency towards the melancholy is also a guilty pleasure I take willingly from the text. I suppose that might have something to do with the tragedy of Alexander's brief life, as well as its historic meaning. I'm enjoying returning to the Alexander trilogy, but I hope 'The Persian Boy' turns out to be as good as I (perhaps mis) remember it. 'Funeral Games' I cannot recall at all.
Thanks for this video, I enjoyed it a lot. Would you recommend reading Renault's biography of Alexander as background reading before starting her Alexander trilogy? Or does it not matter too much? I know nothing at all about him so I'm a little worried about diving into Fire From Heaven blind!
I've actually read very few novels set in antiquity. I usually avoid them like the plague; like doctors avoiding hospital tv shows, you know… I whole-heartedly recommend Rosemary Sutcliff's novels about Roman Britain, though. The most famous one is The Eagle of the Ninth, but my favourite is Frontier Wolf, which is set in the 4th century and in the context of the beginning of the end of Roman rule in Britain. I like Pompeii by Robert Harris for his choice of main character: a government offical concerned with the maintenance of the water supply, which takes him out into the field, onto the slopes of Mount Vesuvius. It's a nice change from the usual choice of character. And Harris paints an amazing picture of the charged atmosphere in the countryside s well. I, Claudius is an okay read if you keep in mind that it says more about Suetonius and Tacitus than about the Julio-Claudian family… I've been warned off the Augustus novel by John Williams. Hope this helps a little. :)
Restrain your own discourtesy. There is nothing remotely improper about her appearance. The tattoo is a minor element within the far greater magnetism of her wonderfully animated commentary. If such excessive prudishness affects your ability to appreciate her splendid discussion of the novels, the impropriety is yours.
Nice introduction. I love Mary Renault's books. In her "The Nature of Alexander" she demonstrates how the popular images of Alexander's brutality are unfair and unworthy of credit. It is a great book too! And her only book for children: "The Lion in the Gateway", an account of the "Persian Wars", is a great way of introducing to literature and history and is funny! Thank you for sharing with us your appreciation for Renault's novels. God bless you!
Love Mary Renault. The King must Die is one of my favorites but one of my great memories is reading the King Must Die in the ruins of Knossos.
What a thing to do! I should do it when I finallz get there.
Thanks for the overall review of her work. I just finished The Last of the Wine and found it to be the only honest and complete vision of ancient Athens from the narrator's point of view. The level of acurate detail was astounding and presented the hope and terror of that world. It was hard not believe that a character like Alexios did not exist along side the likes of Lysis and Socrates. It prompted me to reread the Socratic dialogs with her version of the characters in mind. More importantly, I have come to understand how much the classical era has created who we (particularly as an American) are now and the insights given by Renault feel relevant to our current world.
I am completely obsessed with the King Must Die and The Bull from the Sea duo! Mary Renault is an amazing writer yet it’s so difficult to find a platform to talk about her amazing books! Thank you for making this video
So glad I found this video.
I have read 4 and intend to read the rest.
I love The Last of the Wine for several reasons. It struck me how the fall of the democracy parallels modern threats and behaviors.
I am convinced there are perhaps three places in the book where Lysis and Alexias make love, or at least Mary Renault tells us this is where it happens, even though the publishers would not allow concrete evidence of it, beyond gestures and symbolic words. However, I understand there are many fans that will refuse to believe it. They would not be a fan of a book where the two young men were anything more than true and loyal comrades.
Really, there are people who deny that Lysis and Alexias have a sexual relationship!? I wouldn't have thought it possible. I mean, even if you don't understand or don't want to see the subtle hints: at one point Alexias states quite frankly that he was worried that Socrates would be disappointed in them for having taken their "pure" love down to the physical level, but that in the end he (Socrates) was ever so generous and understanding about it. How do they argue that away?? That's almost impressive, this wilful blindness.
@@evastrange I have asked the same question. How do they miss this? In the same way I debated another Renault fan how young Theseus likely was with two of the male characters in The King Must Die. I expect some readers are more comfortable with their denial that men act on their sexuality in that way..
@@evastrange The book's treatment of the issue is complex. It seems very clear, although only by allusion and perambulatory speech, that their relationship becomes physical. But the takeaway seems less clear to me. Sokrates treats them as "friends who have suffered a loss." Which I suppose you could call generous, given his earlier speech about "mortal passions sink[ing] us in mortal pleasures." But Alexias himself also experiences a diminishment of the heroic visions of his youth at the same time, attributing it to "the necessary effect of years." The narrative at least has a certain anxiety about the physical vs. the spiritual, reflective of the anxiety of the philosophers.
(People not dealing with this thematic tension *at all* though is certainly ludicrous.)
I’m currently reading the last of the wine, and the praise singer will definitely be my next Mary Renault read! Loved the video.
Thank you! The Praise Singer would be perfect for the season, I think: it has a very melancholy, wistful atmosphere to it.
I've never heard of Mary Renault before! She sounds fascinating. I've added The Mask of Apollo to my TBR as well!
I think she used to be very well known, but has fallen out of fashion lately. I guess because her books aren't very action-packed and require some work on the part of the reader… I'd be thrilled if you picked up any of her books!
Thank you for explaining her books so well. I started with the Praise Singer, and I agree completely with your opinion on her period style; I will try the Theseus book next since i am more familiar with the story and enjoy the mythology. The books which reference Socrates and Plato should be more accessible too, since we study their philosophies. Greek names are challenging, but classics are complex.
I absolutely agree with your criticism of Renault's depiction of Alexander in 'Fire From Heaven'. I'm currently re-reading the Alexander trilogy (this time in chronological order). Renault's Alexander comes across as a 'Mary Sue' to my (now more mature) mind. He is simply too perfect, in all and every aspect - to the point of becoming irritating and unlikeable (perhaps this was deliberate?). Is he, infact, a monster? Well, in Renault's tale Alexander, aged just twelve years old at the time, kills and beheads a man. Alexander suffers no trauma. Ho hum. And on it goes - the perfect young boy, the perfect teenager, the perfect young adult. I guess he was a son of royalty who imagined he might be a god (and was thus indulged by those around him), but...
Well, Renault's writing is often magnificent, no question about that. She had a talent for springing a beautifully constructed sentence upon her reader; I find myself highlighting many just so that I may be able to recall them later. Her tendency towards the melancholy is also a guilty pleasure I take willingly from the text. I suppose that might have something to do with the tragedy of Alexander's brief life, as well as its historic meaning.
I'm enjoying returning to the Alexander trilogy, but I hope 'The Persian Boy' turns out to be as good as I (perhaps mis) remember it. 'Funeral Games' I cannot recall at all.
Thanks for this video, I enjoyed it a lot. Would you recommend reading Renault's biography of Alexander as background reading before starting her Alexander trilogy? Or does it not matter too much? I know nothing at all about him so I'm a little worried about diving into Fire From Heaven blind!
My number one favourite author
Jus finished Theseus 1 and 2 sooooo fantastic
very helpful, thank you. who else would you recommend for historical novels set in Greece or Rome?
I've actually read very few novels set in antiquity. I usually avoid them like the plague; like doctors avoiding hospital tv shows, you know… I whole-heartedly recommend Rosemary Sutcliff's novels about Roman Britain, though. The most famous one is The Eagle of the Ninth, but my favourite is Frontier Wolf, which is set in the 4th century and in the context of the beginning of the end of Roman rule in Britain.
I like Pompeii by Robert Harris for his choice of main character: a government offical concerned with the maintenance of the water supply, which takes him out into the field, onto the slopes of Mount Vesuvius. It's a nice change from the usual choice of character. And Harris paints an amazing picture of the charged atmosphere in the countryside s well.
I, Claudius is an okay read if you keep in mind that it says more about Suetonius and Tacitus than about the Julio-Claudian family…
I've been warned off the Augustus novel by John Williams.
Hope this helps a little. :)
@@evastrange it does, thanks!
Beauti
Have the courtesy to cover up your tattoos (and body) when you make public videos, please!
Restrain your own discourtesy. There is nothing remotely improper about her appearance. The tattoo is a minor element within the far greater magnetism of her wonderfully animated commentary. If such excessive prudishness affects your ability to appreciate her splendid discussion of the novels, the impropriety is yours.