ahahahahahahawm edoc siht ot terces eht tuo erugif ot elba eb reven ll'uoY!: www.patreon.com/ArchitectofGames Some layers of the human psyche were never meant to be explored. Turn back now whilst you still can! twitter.com/Thefearalcarrot
@@insaincaldo Ah, but perhaps the first time to you was the second time to them! They are running laps around you... supernatural feminine time-distortion laps...
I think this comment is a prime example of a tactical spoiler: normally I close the video once it gets to the after the video segment, but because of this comment, I got to experience something great ^_^
I recognized Void Stranger from the thumbnail, that game needs to be talked about more. But like you said, its so "outer wilds" in that any meaningful discussion that might convince someone to play would likely ruin the experience. It'll blow up eventually, and i think deserves to
I would almost argue that too much of the game was already spoiled in this video. Some people don't figure out that the 'talking to rocks' secret item exists until much, much later, for instance. Even the existence of the magic rod that lets you pick up tiles is a spoiler, albeit one that you'll discover 10 seconds into the game. The trailer never actually shows it. Me, I actually fell into the pit on B001 on my first playthrough, because I didn't know what the rod did. I thought I was completely stuck, and therefore I probably have to fall into the pit to progress. That was a mistake, to say the least... But after that, I started trying more things and finally discovered that I could press the 'interact' key in front of a tile to pick it up. Then again, this could go into 'tactical spoiler' territory: how do you get people to experience Void Stranger without naming some examples of layers the game has? The best way to recommend the game is 'If you like puzzle/sokoban games with layers, just try it and see for yourself', but what if that's not enough?
Thank you for the spoiler warning for Void Stranger. I’d never heard of it before, but seeing it lumped together with Outer Wilds and Obra Dinn, I immediately picked it up
One interesting question that comes to my mind with this video is "Why do I like to watch my friends play videogames I just introduced to them?", especially when I know them in and out myself. But I think the answer lies in the sort of second hand discovery you get from your oblivious vict- I mean friend when they play the game for the first time. We humans are a social species and by that we can often experience things through other people. Anyways, now I will force all my friends to play all my favourite games so I can experience them as if I was new to them 500 more times. 😗✌
I am having a blast with Divinity: Original Sin coop playthrough with a friend that hasn't completed the game before. I have, but I let him do all choices and guide us this time so I can sorta experience the game anew while still having coop and tactical fun :D
I like playing with newbies and helping them figuring things out in games, it also brings the experience back in a way. I also gently guide them to have the best experience, trying not to spoil anything, but also help them avoid too much frustration. My motivation for helping others is basically "I love this game, and I want you to love it too"
This is the reason that I love watching lets plays of RPGs such as Undertale, Omori or In Stars and Time. You can't get that emotional ride again, but you can watch someone else do it.
that's what i tried to do to my friend with Hollow Knight, but he kinda just didn't end up liking it. I think he just doesn't really like playing singleplayer games.
I finished Void Stranger early last month, and it has ended up being one of my favorite games I’ve played, and the worst part is I can’t talk to people about it because spoiling it would ruin it.
As someone who played Baba Is You, I'm pretty sure that game breaks the brain so much in an abstract manner I think there's a chance you can experience it twice. If just because it hurts so much the first time you'd repress said memory after. Good game though, but damn.
I havnt played survival minecraft solo since 1.8. I've itentionally avoided learning about recent updates for the sole purpose of one day having that same experience as my first time playing once the game is fresh again.
Honesty, it's changed a ton since then, for the better imo. I think you would find it's a different experience. Even if it hadn't, you're different now too.
you would be disappointed. Micro-Jang has the philospphy of changing as little as possible about the core game, and when they do, they make more of the same (netherite)
@@d-star491 By avoiding learning about recent updates i dont mean being totally blind. I usually watch like 1 patchnotes video and generally remember everything. I just dont have the indepth game knowledge i used too, which was my goal. I know whats in the updates/new versions and i keep up with controversies and the like.
It's honestly why I like games with a new game plus feature that expands on the game when you have the knowledge from the first playthrough that recontexulizes the entire story Tales of series does this great as the second playthrough is probably the true run you have when you know the surface layer of the story and then with playing the secret areas bosses and side quests you basically have the full experience and get the true full story
There's is nothing better than when on Dark Souls 2, a random area boss will just show up during New Game Plus run in an early part of its area. Just. Show up, fight you, way early. It's amazing.
@@AeonKnigh432bonus enemies could be fun as well. I just up difficulty for my next playthroughs in most games so it stays a challenge as I get better. Tales of graces probably the most fun doing this as even the prequel game is super fun when you are better at playing
brings to my mind bravely default for 3ds and its sequel bravely second. both of their new game +s are full on continuations that are added onto the first playthrough, with one of them requiring you to use a game mechanic that the game teaches you later on in to win what should be a scripted loss tutorial fight.
Rogue Legacy 2 is also a good example, since the gameplay is dependent on NG+. To get the True Ending the normal way, you need to beat the game 8 times(*). Each NG+ requires you to increase the difficulty in at least 2 ways you can choose (think Pact of Punishment in Hades). After you beat each NG+, you can select a superboss as an option, and you need to beat every superboss to get the true ending. But each superboss gives some more lore, so the story is gradually revealed. ...I've put 530 hours into this game. I have a problem. (*) - By default, you can only jump 1 at a time, but there is an option to "skip" up to NG+7.
@@Mizunashi. Well I never saw Symphonia as that good. Same as bersteria. Vesperia is on the better list but abyss and graces have better gameplay. Graces especially is a different experience especially with how it has three parts to it and it changes the gameplay as your skill gets better so it did it the best.
This is why it’s so important for us to be able to maintain access to our games. As a long time gamer pushing 40, I’ve definitely gone back to games several years later, and basically had a new game cuz I’d forgotten most of it!
15:27 - this is why I was happy with Doom Eternal's heavy handed tutorials. Whilst there are lots of things under the surface to discover upon mastery (developers' intentions varying), the point of the main experience was in *doing* the thing, not figuring _how_ to do it. There was enough of a blockade in an appropriately choosen difficulty, so being obtuse just didn't feel like the right call.
For me, it's "Horizon Zero Dawn" and the story of it. All the other things never really matter to me, unless I play a Rogue-like, as it's only the story that really matters. The reveal in the chapter "Deep Secrets of the Earth" blew me away and I can never go back to that feeling ever again.
I've always thought the first few runs in Paradox strategy games are always more interesting to see where the world ends up rather than later runs where you know the mechanics and basically always win
This is true for almost all strategy game. The enjoyment is in figuring out the best (or, at least, good enough strategy). Actually executing that strategy is just cranking the handle. Paradox get's around this to some extent by having lots of role-playing elements in their games so you can play them with that mindset rather than a strategy optimisation one. Of course, having those two opposing experiential approaches baked into a game leads to other problems...
@@LimeyLassen Not really. It's as much a strategy game as a role-playing game. Neither approach is the "correct" one (if that even means anything) or the only one the devs intended. This split personality is both a blessing and a curse.
This is the only thing I kind of like about having a memory disorder. Every 5 years, I can replay things like Ace Attorney and at least not remember how the cases turn out until toward the end. I can replay puzzle games like once a year. I can replay an open world game immediately sometimes and the beginning feels almost brand new. 😅
@@gabrote42 I'm actually halfway through Ghost Trick right now. I didn't realize it was the same team until I finished a chapter and was like "hold up...that was a very Ace Attorney chapter transition."
I cannot express how much I appreciate your deep, unique reflections on games, that are neatly packed into a concise format with endless visual jokes. You're definitely my gamer role model and I will be aiming to more and more approach and look at games the way you do.
When I first played Undertale I did so all in one night and very late into the morning, but i found it super moving and cried a lot lol, anyway i played it like a few years later and forgot so much of it that I got to experience it again despite remembering how meaningful the game was. anyway Undertale STILL gives me new stuff to discover even now, and it's infinitely deep so there is that but yeah just ADHD things.
17:20 i still have a pyromancer save that has nothing but a black knight sword and basic pyromancer equipment at the bottom of the tomb of giants with no way to warp up or any of the pyromancers killed. 'i bet i can make that jump' has never had such terrible consequnces. this was my first save file, and my second missed a shortcut that allowed me to go back to the area after i spent more than 3 hours trying to progress. i took a 6 month break from dark souls after that. spoiling yourself can lead to terrible player decisions that ruin your experience, but that statement is just as true of not spoiling yourself... boy i sure did have fun with dark souls after that break though.
This topic is very interesting because I started re-playing games in a random order from all I have. The first time playing a game is discovery, while the next ones are actually playing, in a "oh I play with my toy" way, it's like advanced play, and I know there is a lot of people that don't actually like playing, but just discovering, so they don't use a game again after the discovery playthrough. That's interesting because thinking about this may give you the opportunity to consider reflecting on yourself about why you play video games and what brings you joy in life in general, in a personal self-care level
The whole "getting stuck revealing layers" bit was actually why I couldn't get into Void Stranger By all metrics, it should've been a game I enjoyed, and I did, right up until I just kept repeating the exact same loops over and over again with no new discoveries
I'm with you there. When I started it and as the story started to reveal it's layers I felt like the game was custom built for me. But around the time the murals started to become important and I realized what I needed to do, I just wasn't enjoying it and completely disengaged from the game. I don't think it would have been so bad if I was free to explore, but having to go through the loop each time sucked the fun out of the game.
Your criticism is valid but at the same time if you discovered a particular piece of information it wouldn't matter anymore. Navigating the void becomes a walk in the park at some point, which leaves you free to experiment and go secret hunting with ease
My 'cannot play the first time again' game is Hollow Knight. That game taught me to enjoy video games all over again, with a sense of wonder and accomplishment. I get a vicarious echo of those experiences by watching lets players experience it for their first times, and it's always magical (if extremely frustrating to see someone play almost as badly as I did!).
That's a really good one. I feel the same, the sense of exploration was amazing (I knew in general the abilities and the existence of some locations, but I had no idea of the map layout or how things connected). I has played Symphony of the Night before then, because I always heard it was a great game and was curious how it help up today (it holds up really well), but that was with a guide helping me along a lot more. Hollow Knight is what made me understand and truly love Metroidvania style exploration and map uncovering.
I find this fascinating because Hollow Knight had the opposite effect on me. Tried three separate times to get into it cause I love the idea of the game, but movement felt so awful that I bounced off hard before even getting to the first boss every single time.
I got lost and gave up on the game. Tbh I wish there were tutorials for people like me which won't spoil the game completely, but give some hints on where to go next. Hollow Knight is certainly way too entangled for me
ikr? I'm having a great time going coop in games I've finished solo before and letting my partner (which hasn't played it b4) do all the decisions... Its double fun :D
Reminds me of getting more accustomed to a crafting minigame because I turned shops off. Wish more games had an indicator for "this is the consequences of earlier". "*blank* will remember that" could ultimately be meaningless for all we know.
This is why we recommend our favorite games to others, right? The initial sense of wonder, and discovery of the first playthrough is gone for us, so we get to "relive" them through other people's eyes. Like, I will never forget the first time I played Return of the Obra Dinn, and the sheer feeling of shock and surprise at the intense moment it goes from a fun, clever pirate whodunnit to eldritch horror. It was late at night, in the end of October too, so everything about it was perfect. It's honestly one of my favourite videogame moments of all time. But I'm aware of it now, so when I start another playthrough (because this time I'll definitely get the chinese top men right without brute forcing😅), the scene obviously doesn't have the same impact. So I will recommend it/pester my friends about it, and enjoy watching their reaction. Or I will watch my favourite videogame streamers having fun, and thus again experience some of the magic of the first time.
I tried recommending Subnautica to my whole friend group, a few days later, I learned that I'm the only one in my friend group without Thalassophobia. =(
There are many moments in videogames that we think back to because they are mind bending in their revelation, but it is how we feel in those moments that we miss experiencing. Mechanical and storytelling experiences that leave you like this are few and far in-between, but when woven into the intented gameplay, that gameplay ascends to another level. I think this is one of the biggest reasons soulsgames and soulslikes have become so popular - the adrenaline rush during a difficult boss fight, and the surge of euphoria upon finally emerging victorious after long hours of trial and failure is what makes this genre of games so great.
You know, this is actually why I love modding games so much. I don't mean installing mods others have made, though that is one side of it, sure; I mean making my own mods, recontextualising my experiences with a game even when the vanilla experience has become a bit old-hat. New mechanics, new levels, appearance changes to an object I've seen four hundred times, all help me experience a snippet of that first-time view of a game again. Plus, you might discover cut content and be able to restore it for a new view on the base game; or just learn more about how the game is put together. Even with modding, you can eventually reach such a level of familiarity with a game and its systems that there's nothing more to squeeze out of it, but it definitely lengthens the amount of time I can be revelling in the newness of the game. And then, there's a special kind of joy to seeing others play with your mods and recontextualise their own experiences, one that can keep you from regarding a game you modded as a grindstone and instead, as an old friend.
For me, factorio is a good example of what you are talking about. Every time I play, I realize that what I did last time was absolutely terrible and that I have to change it. Im only halfway through my first playthrough, and I already know that im going to have to play through again so that I can do it correctly the second time
I was gonna say something about the locust idols skips you were talking about and then YOU CASUALLY SHOWED ONE OF THE BIGGEST EARLY GAME DISCOVERIES RIGHT AT THE END OF THE VOID STRANGER SEGMENT AIN'T NO WAY!!!
THANK YOU for exactly articulating why I am not fussed about the idea of spoilers at all. Yeah I think it's ideal to not have plot twists revealed for someone who's totally immersed in the experience, but sometimes I need to know that there is indeed something worth building to in the first place! And seeing the execution of a thing is much more meaningful than knowing something is going to exist at all, because, like you said, it's only new to you once, and ultimately it has to stand on its own merits without the benefit of surprise at some point. anyway thanks for showing off the void stranger footage knowing that things start building very quickly has me much more interested; with zeroranger I'm still lost as to whether or not it's supposed to have gotten to the cool stuff by the time I stepped away
As much as I respect your approach, maybe you just have to build a tolerance for being disappointed? You don't "need" to know there will be a payoff to *each* experience - sometimes not having one is part of the fun (a more meaningful payoff later on)! And by that I mean I am more fussed about spoilers than you, no judgements attached :v All that said, it is also fine to walk away from stuff if they don't feel fun...
The backlog is large and the attention span is erratic; sometimes the immersion just isn't there and having a bit of information to chew on is the difference between finishing a game and it falling down the memory hole. Sometimes a total lack of information is more overwhelming than knowing at least a little of what to expect, and having something to look for allows the freedom to explore everything else I don't know. And for a fun twist, sometimes I'm so immersed in a game that I need to keep digging into info about it even when I need to take a break from playing it! "is this adhd" yes, yes it is And to be clear this isn't universally how I play games, I get to enjoy plenty of surprises I wasn't aware of, and I'm never going to tell you about the cool bits of a game that rely on withheld knowledge unless you're asking! But the act of knowing something ahead of time, out of context, really doesn't need to wreck an experience at all.
Ultimately I think spoilers are like basically any other option to get through something faster or makes something available without "earning" it. Their value is entirely dependent on whether the experiences that they allow you to have are more worthwhile than the ones they let you skip.
Sometimes spoilers can not just be getting through something faster but getting through something at all, too. If you'll permit me to share a brief story: A few years back I was playing through a trilogy of Shadowrun Dragonfall/Hong Kong custom campaigns and after something happened only a short way into the 3rd entry, I would have dropped and written off the whole lot then and there if not for a spoiler. But now, having stayed the course thanks to that spoiler, I can look back on the many hours spent playing those campaigns with fondness rather than disappointment.
I have a hilariously poor memory due to ADHD, so I can occasionally experience these things twice AND spoilers just hype me up for a game because I know I'll probably forget the details by the time I get to something myself.
I really appreciate the conclusion of this video, and it highlights how a well-designed NG+ experience can add a lot new to a game. I've never been a fan of NG+ modes that are just "replay the game but with all the OP stuff from your first playthrough," because it allows your mechanical advantages, rather than your new knowledge and perspective, to carry you through the experience. One of my favorite NG+ approaches comes from my personal 2021 GOTY, UNSIGHTED. One of the NG+ options is to reset your stats and inventory, but allow you to keep all your crafting recipes, (which, notably, includes recipes for all the metroidvania progression lock items.) This mode allows you to exercise your knowledge of existing game mechanics, intended progression paths, and crafting material locations to sequence break your second playthrough very early on, enabling you to experience the game from a new perspective while maintaining the challenge associated with a fresh playthrough's power curve. Runner-up for favorite NG+ experience is a miracle-only challenge run in Dark Souls 3. Two of the best offensive miracles in that game are unlocked via the final DLC (Lightning Arrow) and after beating the final boss (Sunlight Spear). Accordingly, a miracle-only challenge run is only really viable in NG+, and that kind of run works best when you can leverage your knowledge of bosses and enemies to pick the right miracle for the situation. It allowed me to experience DS3 from a completely new mechanical perspective, and is still my favorite playthrough of a soulslike to-date.
you make very good points in how “avoiding spoilers” is functionally impossible and has a lot more nuance, but something about the pacing of the video… feels like it lost it’s point every now and then, or it just flew by too fast? I had to pause multiple times just to understand everything you were laying down got a bit better by the end though methinks
The Dark Souls 1 tutorial videos with some spoilers is actually the only reason why I was able to progress after Taurus Demon, and started actually liking the game
0:07 Most people I ask go for Obra Dinn or Ghost Trick for that I disagree on going in unspoiled being impossible. I got into Ghost Trick knowing nothing but the cover art. I got into Evangelion knowing a portrait of Ayanami, knowing she's emotionless, that it had mecha, and that the show had a high amount of TVTropes entries. I got into Harry Potter way back when knowing it was my first novel and that a single young adult I didn't know liked it. I got into Papers Please knowing what Jorji looked like, and got into FTL from the name, title screen and a random comment. I got into Breaking Bad knowing less than I did of Evangelion, only knowing it had a high amount of TVTropes entries, and Stanley Parable by knowing the loading screen and 10 minutes of half-remembered gameplay from a terminally ill chilean sims player. It's very easy to go unspoiled into something. You just have to remember it's name and GO IN.
more people need to play Void Stranger that game utterly consumed my life for like a week. Hell, there are still a few secrets I need to get back around to figuring out even after reaching the secret ending.
I thought this one was a little more rambly than usual but the quality of visual humour in matching the clips to what you're saying was top-form. I especially liked the use of two different variants of the Tarrey Town music to bracket your main point *chef's kiss*
I do enjoy replaying a game once i've forgotten big sections of it, like Portal 2's story will never surprise me again quite the same way but I will forget the solutions to most of the puzzles lol
The reason why I want to be able to rediscover games like it was the first time, is simple. I can't push myself to play or watch something I've already seen or done. Even if playing a second time allow a new perspective, most of the time, when the discovery that enable this appear, I almost immediately make the connections. Making a second play through more of a chore than a new experience.
Resident evil 4 (2005) fixed this problem for me. I've played that game 3 times in the past 6 months. It's fucking incredible how well paced that game is. the mechanical mastery you're able to achieve is really just icing on the cake
I rather like the phrasing here that you begin your journey with any new game from a point of total ignorance and that that's part of the reason you can never go back with fresh eyes. You're no longer ignorant of what's to be had. That's why I think it's important to preserve that ignorance as much as you can. You might never be able to really tell when you're about to experience something unforgettable you'd want to revisit "for the first time" so it's best to let it surprise you. I always do blind playthroughs, never look things up unless I'm legit brick walled, which quite frankly I've played so many videos games at this point that if I'm truly at an impasse it's more likely a problem with the game then anything else, which means it's unlikely a candidate for the topic at hand. Bad games aren't things you generally wish to re-experience with fresh eyes. You're mileage may vary on a couple things there. The most pertinent example recently is probably still Elden Ring. Played through that thing totally blind, offline, media black out, etc. It's one of my favorite gaming experiences of all time. That's not to say it's "bad" to look things up, however it's a game that I could kind of peg as being one of those special experiences before playing it; it has the developer history, the pedigree and I'm already a huge fan of the series. Knowing that it was key to know as little about the game as possible to wring out my maximum experience with it. That is to say; I knew I'd only get to play Elden Ring for the first time once and I couldn't go back and erase my memory to do it again. Like the man in the video said. So why would I ever preemptively seek out details and knowledge about the game before experiencing them for the first time myself? If erasing your memory is some desire for an ersatz first play through then surely implanting that same information into your memory, memories you'll supposedly want to subsequently wish that you could clean from the slate, beforehand from secondary sources would be undesirable. Right? Ultimately it's different strokes from different folks. Perhaps the experience someone, who is not me, wants to relive is the experience of following a walkthrough. Maybe that's new enough for them and still appreciably different from replaying the game again with, I don't know, a different walkthrough. Or not using one. Maybe they just like Leo Decaprio'meming the scenes they recognize from the trailer. That's valid. There's a whole section in the video discussing the bad design of games the focus on grinding or "optimal play". Those games are also the most successful types of games by many metrics you know? Who are we to judge? Sometimes I like to eat slop too. Go grind rocks and sticks. Go ignore 95% of a games content because you looked up the optimal play pattern. Go have fun. That's the point. But if you're the kind of person who really does look back and laments that they wish they could totally forget a game, so that they could "play it again for the first time" well, in light of the fact that we know you can't do that let me instead recommend maximizing that first run. You can never forget but at the least you can damn sure go in the first time with that slate as blank and clean as possible. Also as a related side note; when I first played Dark Souls the second boss I beat was Pinwheel. It made my experience quite different and really special for me. Finding my way through the catacombs while so unprepared is a lifetime gaming memory for me. If a bunch of folks had told me "You're not supposed to go through the skeleton graveyard yet dummy. Go here instead!" I might have never had the special first play through. Just saying. Life is chok'o'blok full of exceptions and nuance.
I want you to know that I both noticed, and highly appreciated, the use of the evolving, layered, Tarrey Town theme throughout the video, in it's different forms.
16:25 I dislike content warnings in horror games. Especially the ones about trauma like SH: The Short Message or The Medium. If the game straight up tells you the content is about sudoku and rap, then you already know the theme and the trauma.
im autistic n have been homeless from 17 until 27 so traumatic experience n short term memory caused me to forget specifics of why i love game like legends of dragoon or Re2. my mind blanks when trying to explain but i never forget the feeling. each time i play games i do wildly different things in them too
personally i find the idea that only the emotions of a playthrough are so important that somehow justifies throwing the entire experience related to it into the garbage just to experience that feeling again to be kinda insulting. like video games are just some dopamine drug to 'get high' on. i would never throw away my experience with a game. its always precious, good or bad.
Edit: Skip the Spoiler when warned (warning at around 7 mins). Heavily recommend to skip. Void Stranger is best blind. Just finished beating (hopefully) 90% of Void Stranger. Nice timing with the video.
Feel like I'm there too, some of the tactical spoilers shown here I didn't figure out until way later, like way way later. I was proud to figure them out too. That said some I had spoiled as well, but ignored until I saw the prompt that would reveal the mechanic. Skip the void stranger spoiler talk is my recommendation, but if that is what gets someone to play it, watch it.
@@DanielG-e8t You can think of Fraxy as a program similar to MUGEN, but for shmup's rather than fighting games. The creator of ZeroRanger and Void Stranger was one of the most innovative figures on the scene back in the day, constantly finding new ways to use the engine to create some fantastic creations that served as inspiration for many other creators to follow. You can check out creations such as "Fragments of Men", "Samsara" or "Final Dream" for some of his more iconic ones. Or you could look up creations done by other people that became reality thanks to his innovations such as "Atlas", "Acedia" and "Wrath" just to name but a few.
This is why I unexpectedly fell in love with EU4, which seemed needlessly complex at first glance, but it turned out to be pretty accessible and the complexity could be gradually explored at your own pace and gave a near endless feeling of learning and discovery.
As someone who just finished replacing outer wilds 4ish years after playing it for the first time, you can really get the magic back with good old "Time". Portal came out nearly 17 years ago you wont remember all of it. There are many books that i reread and if it has been long enough and you read enough you can still be caught with a twist. Im currently replaying toki tori 2 it is a game only about knowledge locks but i still need to do the leg work to relearn systems. I do love your vids. :D
PvP games in general have a lot of layers of strategic depth to find, but one particularly fantastic mechanic that completely recontextualizes the game once you learn about it is the GRD system in under night in-birth. Under night is a fairly basic fighting game on the surface, with your usual fare of 3 attack buttons, special moves done via motion inputs and a super meter, but there's also a weird-looking meter with diamond shapes in the bottom center of the screen, and while the tutorial does explain what it is you'll probably completely ignore it for your first 30 or so hours because it's nonessential for a beginner. As you get better though, you'll start actually paying attention to it and realizing how you've probably been playing wrong the whole time without realizing it: the GRD meter builds from both sides, and the player whose meter is highest after every 16 second cycle is given a powerful buff called vorpal, which gives you extra meter gain and access to chain shift, a single use move that cancels your current action and converts all your GRD into super meter. The key is that almost all your moves interact with the GRD meter in some way, some moves build GRD, some moves drain your GRD, some moves steal the opponent's GRD, and some even cause a GRD break, freezing your opponent's GRD and locking them out of all their moves that cost it, pretty much everything you do impacts the GRD game in some way and it's basically an entire separate game you play at the same time. Learning about how the GRD system works basically recontextualizes everything you know about the game, some moves you thought were extremely spammable actually cost GRD and you were giving the opponent free vorpal (aka throwing) without realizing, under night while paying attention to the GRD meter versus not paying attention to it are two completely different games
I can never play online shooters from the late 90s/early 00s the same way anymore, but at least I could play them for many hours a day, for several years like that.
BG3's honour mode is truly no joke. The first fight you'll likely run into after the tutorial consists of 3 intellect devourers. Back in EA, I learned some tricks to win this fight, because it's kinda hard with 2 lvl1 characters. Mainly you wanna keep your distance because they lack a range attack. Honour mode gives these bastards a ranged attack, leading to an interesting strategy where you deliberately let Lae'zel die in the tutorial so her corpse will spawn on the starting beach, allowing you to resurect her there (possibly even awarding enough xp to level up) and face this fight with more muscle. The mode also saw me thinking about an optimal 4 man party designed to maximize the efficiency of each short rest Honour mode in general is probably also the most genuine d&d experience for some. Like in the Tabletop, you can't undo any decisions and you're forced to roll with all the punches. What this also means is that it creates a level of mechanical pressure that changes your decision-making. Murdering the refugees in act 1 is awful and few people do it, but it IS a considerably easier resolution to the conflict than taking on the entire goblin camp or doing the second grove gate fight (unless you barrelmance your way to victory). for those wanting my party comp: -Battlemaster fighter: has crowd-control abilities that recharge on short rest, and if you can beat Grym and acquire the adamantine splint mail and shield, they'll debuff any melee attacker that targets them while having a very high AC and immunity to crits. -Warlock: any pact will do, but probs fiend for the free HP per kill. Great ranged damage which can include crowd-control, spell slots recharge on short rests. -College of swords Bard (likely respecced Astarion: has Healing word (best healing spell IMO), bunch of buffs and debuffs, and if you can kill the Gith inquisitor, the circlet synergizes very well with the subclass. Usually Astarion for the elven longbow proficiency, which allows him to use slashing flourish to target two people for respectable DPS. Gives a 3rd short rest per long rest, which the comp is based around. -Moon Druid: also has healing word + a whole bunch of zoning spells. Wildshape lets you tank a lot of damage, and with Owlbear form, you can cheese several fights (like Grym) by using your jump attack from serious high ground. Wildshape recharges on short rests.
It's something interesting, because wanting to forget to reexperience something is a feeling that is very foreign to me. I've always considered the experience of a game as an integral part of my global construction, and losing that brick would mean everything else coming after would be damaged by it. So in no way would I want to forget about the steps that led me to be who I am now. I notice you mention a similar aspect near the end, so I guess the conclusions aren't too different.
Perhaps one of my favorite things that relates to this is exploits and special tactics, such as windbombs in breath of the wild Being able to fly around however and whereever I wanted was, really fun, and let me approach things and areas from a new avenue
I think this video explains why I've been getting into randomizers lately, especially with games centered around item/equipment based progression such as the Zelda series. Instead of doing things or visiting places in the usual order, I'm now constantly having to think about where I can go and what I can do based on what I've been able to find. A game I love and know like the back of my hand becomes a giant puzzle that changes with every new playthrough! It's also very fun finding important items in silly places. One of my favorite randomizers to play right now is the Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask combo randomizer. It's constantly getting updated with new things to randomize (pot and grass contents, fairy fountain fairies, the fish from the fishing game, freestanding rupees, and even NPCs, bosses, and enemies, can be thrown into the item pool!), and I just love running around in the world of N64 Hyrule/Termina in general.
22:06 For me, it was somersaulting around Hyrule field until it turned to nighttime and immediately hitting the reset button on my N64 the moment the first skeleton popped out.
i enjoy the second and later layers of stories and games WAY more than going in blind. going in blind is always frustrating, upsetting, and generally less enjoyable because i have a hard time piecing things together without context (and the autism). being able to see and appreciate forshadowing and character complexities that lead to otherwise bizzare-seeming actions and worldbuilding and story moments that build into later reveals is so much more satisfying, as is not being absolutely terrible at the game combined with not knowing what to do or how to approach things. as a result i never understood this impulse people have to go back. to me if something is good, it means those later layers are good and fun to engage with, because it was made with those layers of understanding in mind.
As someone with anxiety issues, I tend to like (and often seek out) spoilers for a lot of media I consume, so I have a better idea of what the intentions are and what aspects of it I have to grit my teeth through (and whether or not it's worth it). I still like playing through and seeing HOW things unfold and will appreciate the nuances of the execution, with the knowledge of how it'll culminate. I guess maybe like how one would take a 2nd playthrough.
I second this so hard, playing through a game the first time is never as enjoyable as the second. Personally, i do try to avoid spoilers, but it means I'm constantly worrying whether or not I am doing something wrong throughout the first playthrough. Maybe that's why I prefer keeping to the games I already know through and through 😅
In a similar vein to speedrunning, some games become fasinating new experiences when you choose to "change the rules". Example: Playing Stardew Valley with the goal of earning money as quickly as possible. The very old RPG Nethack can take 50 hours to beat, then another 50 to figure out how to beat it as a pacifist.
As someone who have a hard time getting into a new game - usually takes a few hours since I play mostly long genres : RPG, strategy etc., I absolutely don't want to come back fresh as if my memory has been erased. It's way easier the 2nd time and I can apreciate the game from the start. Plus if the writing is any good, any plot twist makes the 2nd go as if not more interesting, searching for foreshadowing clues.
I seek out spoiler like a bloodhound. I find I don't miss out on the things I've heard people they say are "ruined" by spoilers and simultaneously avoid frustration.
I wish I was still young enough to have this problem. At this point I can barely remember the control scheme of a game I was playing yesterday, I certainly won't remember the plot of anything I played more than a year ago.
This is why I think developers are wrong when they say that in order to make a new game you need to provide something new. People say: if you want to play X game you have already X game. But you can never experience games as the first time.
Hi Adam, you are my favourite video game essayist. I think we could further refine the discussion by semantically separating 'expectations' from 'spoilers'. We can say that expectations may be advantageous and cultivated by the game itself and the wider cultural context in which is it played. Whereas, spoilers are unwanted information with undermine the game experience. Spoilers can also come from outside the game or from the game itself, for example if a plot twist is too predictable. Best of luck with your fantastic work
I wish I could forget Umineko and replay it for the first time again, but there are so many layers to it that I'm still finding new things about it years later, so I'm still enjoying it.
you know, with hypnosis, if you're susceptible enough, you can lock off the memories of playing a game so that you can experience it for the first time again
Seconding the tactical spoilers. We are awash with good media and having foresight into what makes a game special when you may have set aside otherwise.
After more than 15 hours of playing Void Stranger I came back to this video curious about what Adam had said regarding his "first two or three hours" of play. Turns out this was a huge mistake and he went on to talk about/show many things I had yet to discover...
I will never ever forget my first time playing BotW. The climbing being the most atrocious garbage ever made, running out of stamina 2 seconds after i started sprinting, finding the reward of this cool thing to just be another weapon that broke one fight later.
ahahahahahahawm edoc siht ot terces eht tuo erugif ot elba eb reven ll'uoY!: www.patreon.com/ArchitectofGames
Some layers of the human psyche were never meant to be explored. Turn back now whilst you still can! twitter.com/Thefearalcarrot
OH NO NOT BACKWARDS TEXT MY WORST ENEMY
i read that without using a text reverser
tehre are smoe fnuny tihnigs you can do wtih txet, the odrer of lteters ins't eevn ipmrontant
@@celivalg skrill issue
You'll never be able to figure out the secret to this code, you say?
We'll see about that.
A man cannot cross the same river twice. For he is not the same man, and it is not the same river.
Women can do it though. Because women have magic powers that reverse time.
@@jerrylepoppinas a woman, i can confirm i live in non-linear time and that'a why i have breakfast at 6pm
@@jerrylepoppin And let's not get started on nonbinary people
@@jerrylepoppin Oh, that's why the same conversation sometimes just start up with several months in between, as if they didn't skip a beat.
@@insaincaldo Ah, but perhaps the first time to you was the second time to them! They are running laps around you... supernatural feminine time-distortion laps...
As someone who got a concussion and lost a few years of memory, I can, in fact, play the same game twice.
never thought I'd be jealous of someone with brain trauma
Not the same ‘you’, though, is it?
lets goooo
BRB smacking my head with a mallet.
FR though, hope you are alright now
Trust me, it's the only benefit😞 @@ArchitectofGames
When Bowser tells you not to come inside, you f*cking pull out. Simple as.
Completely outside the content of this particular video, I really appreciate that Adam commits _hard_ on the pronunciation of Patreon member "Aaah!"
it's my favorite name to read out!
I think this comment is a prime example of a tactical spoiler: normally I close the video once it gets to the after the video segment, but because of this comment, I got to experience something great ^_^
@@BeamyCat Legitimately brilliant take.
I recognized Void Stranger from the thumbnail, that game needs to be talked about more. But like you said, its so "outer wilds" in that any meaningful discussion that might convince someone to play would likely ruin the experience. It'll blow up eventually, and i think deserves to
The key is to just get people to play ZeroRanger first to believe the devs are goated.
Reminds me of oneshot.
Not sure if you want it spoiled (there is one), but if you don't like the central gameplay it will just make you hate the game even more@roddorod
I would almost argue that too much of the game was already spoiled in this video. Some people don't figure out that the 'talking to rocks' secret item exists until much, much later, for instance. Even the existence of the magic rod that lets you pick up tiles is a spoiler, albeit one that you'll discover 10 seconds into the game. The trailer never actually shows it.
Me, I actually fell into the pit on B001 on my first playthrough, because I didn't know what the rod did. I thought I was completely stuck, and therefore I probably have to fall into the pit to progress. That was a mistake, to say the least... But after that, I started trying more things and finally discovered that I could press the 'interact' key in front of a tile to pick it up.
Then again, this could go into 'tactical spoiler' territory: how do you get people to experience Void Stranger without naming some examples of layers the game has? The best way to recommend the game is 'If you like puzzle/sokoban games with layers, just try it and see for yourself', but what if that's not enough?
Thank you for the spoiler warning for Void Stranger. I’d never heard of it before, but seeing it lumped together with Outer Wilds and Obra Dinn, I immediately picked it up
How's the game going?
One interesting question that comes to my mind with this video is "Why do I like to watch my friends play videogames I just introduced to them?", especially when I know them in and out myself.
But I think the answer lies in the sort of second hand discovery you get from your oblivious vict- I mean friend when they play the game for the first time. We humans are a social species and by that we can often experience things through other people.
Anyways, now I will force all my friends to play all my favourite games so I can experience them as if I was new to them 500 more times. 😗✌
yeah I do like vicariously enjoying things for the first time through the medium of unwilling test subjects like that
I am having a blast with Divinity: Original Sin coop playthrough with a friend that hasn't completed the game before. I have, but I let him do all choices and guide us this time so I can sorta experience the game anew while still having coop and tactical fun :D
I like playing with newbies and helping them figuring things out in games, it also brings the experience back in a way. I also gently guide them to have the best experience, trying not to spoil anything, but also help them avoid too much frustration. My motivation for helping others is basically "I love this game, and I want you to love it too"
This is the reason that I love watching lets plays of RPGs such as Undertale, Omori or In Stars and Time. You can't get that emotional ride again, but you can watch someone else do it.
that's what i tried to do to my friend with Hollow Knight, but he kinda just didn't end up liking it. I think he just doesn't really like playing singleplayer games.
I finished Void Stranger early last month, and it has ended up being one of my favorite games I’ve played, and the worst part is I can’t talk to people about it because spoiling it would ruin it.
Same here, any conversation about the game with my friends would be a spoiler. :/
As someone who played Baba Is You, I'm pretty sure that game breaks the brain so much in an abstract manner I think there's a chance you can experience it twice. If just because it hurts so much the first time you'd repress said memory after.
Good game though, but damn.
Happened with Portal 2 co-op, though I also haven't played that sober, or without allot of betrayal.
Half the time I finish a level, I don’t remember the solution by the next day. Hardest puzzle game I’ve played
Playing through the game to the full ending is already playing it two or three times.
I havnt played survival minecraft solo since 1.8. I've itentionally avoided learning about recent updates for the sole purpose of one day having that same experience as my first time playing once the game is fresh again.
Honesty, it's changed a ton since then, for the better imo. I think you would find it's a different experience. Even if it hadn't, you're different now too.
You could also look into modpacks and play something that treats minecraft as a game engine.
Honestly, I'd say it's already different enough for that.
you would be disappointed. Micro-Jang has the philospphy of changing as little as possible about the core game, and when they do, they make more of the same (netherite)
@@d-star491 By avoiding learning about recent updates i dont mean being totally blind. I usually watch like 1 patchnotes video and generally remember everything. I just dont have the indepth game knowledge i used too, which was my goal. I know whats in the updates/new versions and i keep up with controversies and the like.
It's honestly why I like games with a new game plus feature that expands on the game when you have the knowledge from the first playthrough that recontexulizes the entire story
Tales of series does this great as the second playthrough is probably the true run you have when you know the surface layer of the story and then with playing the secret areas bosses and side quests you basically have the full experience and get the true full story
There's is nothing better than when on Dark Souls 2, a random area boss will just show up during New Game Plus run in an early part of its area. Just. Show up, fight you, way early. It's amazing.
@@AeonKnigh432bonus enemies could be fun as well. I just up difficulty for my next playthroughs in most games so it stays a challenge as I get better.
Tales of graces probably the most fun doing this as even the prequel game is super fun when you are better at playing
brings to my mind bravely default for 3ds and its sequel bravely second. both of their new game +s are full on continuations that are added onto the first playthrough, with one of them requiring you to use a game mechanic that the game teaches you later on in to win what should be a scripted loss tutorial fight.
Rogue Legacy 2 is also a good example, since the gameplay is dependent on NG+. To get the True Ending the normal way, you need to beat the game 8 times(*). Each NG+ requires you to increase the difficulty in at least 2 ways you can choose (think Pact of Punishment in Hades). After you beat each NG+, you can select a superboss as an option, and you need to beat every superboss to get the true ending. But each superboss gives some more lore, so the story is gradually revealed.
...I've put 530 hours into this game. I have a problem.
(*) - By default, you can only jump 1 at a time, but there is an option to "skip" up to NG+7.
@@Mizunashi. Well I never saw Symphonia as that good. Same as bersteria. Vesperia is on the better list but abyss and graces have better gameplay.
Graces especially is a different experience especially with how it has three parts to it and it changes the gameplay as your skill gets better so it did it the best.
This is why it’s so important for us to be able to maintain access to our games. As a long time gamer pushing 40, I’ve definitely gone back to games several years later, and basically had a new game cuz I’d forgotten most of it!
15:27 - this is why I was happy with Doom Eternal's heavy handed tutorials. Whilst there are lots of things under the surface to discover upon mastery (developers' intentions varying), the point of the main experience was in *doing* the thing, not figuring _how_ to do it. There was enough of a blockade in an appropriately choosen difficulty, so being obtuse just didn't feel like the right call.
For me, it's "Horizon Zero Dawn" and the story of it. All the other things never really matter to me, unless I play a Rogue-like, as it's only the story that really matters. The reveal in the chapter "Deep Secrets of the Earth" blew me away and I can never go back to that feeling ever again.
I've always thought the first few runs in Paradox strategy games are always more interesting to see where the world ends up rather than later runs where you know the mechanics and basically always win
Same feling i get with Frostpunk
This is true for almost all strategy game. The enjoyment is in figuring out the best (or, at least, good enough strategy). Actually executing that strategy is just cranking the handle. Paradox get's around this to some extent by having lots of role-playing elements in their games so you can play them with that mindset rather than a strategy optimisation one. Of course, having those two opposing experiential approaches baked into a game leads to other problems...
I feel like people who are playing Crusader Kings to "win" are a little confused
@@LimeyLassen Not really. It's as much a strategy game as a role-playing game. Neither approach is the "correct" one (if that even means anything) or the only one the devs intended. This split personality is both a blessing and a curse.
This is the only thing I kind of like about having a memory disorder. Every 5 years, I can replay things like Ace Attorney and at least not remember how the cases turn out until toward the end. I can replay puzzle games like once a year. I can replay an open world game immediately sometimes and the beginning feels almost brand new. 😅
I recommend Ghost Trick by the same creator. Everyone says they would LOVE to play it twice and made memes about it by the shovelful
@@gabrote42 I'm actually halfway through Ghost Trick right now. I didn't realize it was the same team until I finished a chapter and was like "hold up...that was a very Ace Attorney chapter transition."
@@Vasarcdus Good stuff. Long live Missile
I cannot express how much I appreciate your deep, unique reflections on games, that are neatly packed into a concise format with endless visual jokes. You're definitely my gamer role model and I will be aiming to more and more approach and look at games the way you do.
This video is relentlessly reminding me of Caves of Qud, which I would LOVE for you to do an analysis on one day.
I'll let you know when I stop sucking at it
@@ArchitectofGames lol
When I first played Undertale I did so all in one night and very late into the morning, but i found it super moving and cried a lot lol, anyway i played it like a few years later and forgot so much of it that I got to experience it again despite remembering how meaningful the game was.
anyway Undertale STILL gives me new stuff to discover even now, and it's infinitely deep so there is that but yeah just ADHD things.
17:20 i still have a pyromancer save that has nothing but a black knight sword and basic pyromancer equipment at the bottom of the tomb of giants with no way to warp up or any of the pyromancers killed.
'i bet i can make that jump' has never had such terrible consequnces. this was my first save file, and my second missed a shortcut that allowed me to go back to the area after i spent more than 3 hours trying to progress. i took a 6 month break from dark souls after that.
spoiling yourself can lead to terrible player decisions that ruin your experience, but that statement is just as true of not spoiling yourself... boy i sure did have fun with dark souls after that break though.
I recently finished Void Stranger and oh my god the things I would do to forget everything and play it again
This topic is very interesting because I started re-playing games in a random order from all I have. The first time playing a game is discovery, while the next ones are actually playing, in a "oh I play with my toy" way, it's like advanced play, and I know there is a lot of people that don't actually like playing, but just discovering, so they don't use a game again after the discovery playthrough. That's interesting because thinking about this may give you the opportunity to consider reflecting on yourself about why you play video games and what brings you joy in life in general, in a personal self-care level
The whole "getting stuck revealing layers" bit was actually why I couldn't get into Void Stranger
By all metrics, it should've been a game I enjoyed, and I did, right up until I just kept repeating the exact same loops over and over again with no new discoveries
I'm with you there. When I started it and as the story started to reveal it's layers I felt like the game was custom built for me. But around the time the murals started to become important and I realized what I needed to do, I just wasn't enjoying it and completely disengaged from the game. I don't think it would have been so bad if I was free to explore, but having to go through the loop each time sucked the fun out of the game.
Your criticism is valid but at the same time if you discovered a particular piece of information it wouldn't matter anymore. Navigating the void becomes a walk in the park at some point, which leaves you free to experiment and go secret hunting with ease
My 'cannot play the first time again' game is Hollow Knight. That game taught me to enjoy video games all over again, with a sense of wonder and accomplishment. I get a vicarious echo of those experiences by watching lets players experience it for their first times, and it's always magical (if extremely frustrating to see someone play almost as badly as I did!).
That's a really good one. I feel the same, the sense of exploration was amazing (I knew in general the abilities and the existence of some locations, but I had no idea of the map layout or how things connected). I has played Symphony of the Night before then, because I always heard it was a great game and was curious how it help up today (it holds up really well), but that was with a guide helping me along a lot more. Hollow Knight is what made me understand and truly love Metroidvania style exploration and map uncovering.
I find this fascinating because Hollow Knight had the opposite effect on me. Tried three separate times to get into it cause I love the idea of the game, but movement felt so awful that I bounced off hard before even getting to the first boss every single time.
I got lost and gave up on the game. Tbh I wish there were tutorials for people like me which won't spoil the game completely, but give some hints on where to go next. Hollow Knight is certainly way too entangled for me
I've found that watching LPs of my favorite games helps me recapture this feeling as I can experience the discovery vicariously through others.
ikr? I'm having a great time going coop in games I've finished solo before and letting my partner (which hasn't played it b4) do all the decisions... Its double fun :D
Reminds me of getting more accustomed to a crafting minigame because I turned shops off.
Wish more games had an indicator for "this is the consequences of earlier". "*blank* will remember that" could ultimately be meaningless for all we know.
This is why we recommend our favorite games to others, right? The initial sense of wonder, and discovery of the first playthrough is gone for us, so we get to "relive" them through other people's eyes.
Like, I will never forget the first time I played Return of the Obra Dinn, and the sheer feeling of shock and surprise at the intense moment it goes from a fun, clever pirate whodunnit to eldritch horror. It was late at night, in the end of October too, so everything about it was perfect. It's honestly one of my favourite videogame moments of all time.
But I'm aware of it now, so when I start another playthrough (because this time I'll definitely get the chinese top men right without brute forcing😅), the scene obviously doesn't have the same impact.
So I will recommend it/pester my friends about it, and enjoy watching their reaction. Or I will watch my favourite videogame streamers having fun, and thus again experience some of the magic of the first time.
I would like to recommend Ghost Trick: Phanthom Detective. Many report a similar experience with it.
I tried recommending Subnautica to my whole friend group, a few days later, I learned that I'm the only one in my friend group without Thalassophobia. =(
There are many moments in videogames that we think back to because they are mind bending in their revelation, but it is how we feel in those moments that we miss experiencing. Mechanical and storytelling experiences that leave you like this are few and far in-between, but when woven into the intented gameplay, that gameplay ascends to another level. I think this is one of the biggest reasons soulsgames and soulslikes have become so popular - the adrenaline rush during a difficult boss fight, and the surge of euphoria upon finally emerging victorious after long hours of trial and failure is what makes this genre of games so great.
You know, this is actually why I love modding games so much. I don't mean installing mods others have made, though that is one side of it, sure; I mean making my own mods, recontextualising my experiences with a game even when the vanilla experience has become a bit old-hat. New mechanics, new levels, appearance changes to an object I've seen four hundred times, all help me experience a snippet of that first-time view of a game again. Plus, you might discover cut content and be able to restore it for a new view on the base game; or just learn more about how the game is put together. Even with modding, you can eventually reach such a level of familiarity with a game and its systems that there's nothing more to squeeze out of it, but it definitely lengthens the amount of time I can be revelling in the newness of the game. And then, there's a special kind of joy to seeing others play with your mods and recontextualise their own experiences, one that can keep you from regarding a game you modded as a grindstone and instead, as an old friend.
For me, factorio is a good example of what you are talking about. Every time I play, I realize that what I did last time was absolutely terrible and that I have to change it. Im only halfway through my first playthrough, and I already know that im going to have to play through again so that I can do it correctly the second time
I was gonna say something about the locust idols skips you were talking about and then YOU CASUALLY SHOWED ONE OF THE BIGGEST EARLY GAME DISCOVERIES RIGHT AT THE END OF THE VOID STRANGER SEGMENT AIN'T NO WAY!!!
lol tactical spoiler i think
@@Mizunashi. honestly he should have just cut the clip the second before she actually walks on the last tile. would have even a bigger effect
THANK YOU for exactly articulating why I am not fussed about the idea of spoilers at all. Yeah I think it's ideal to not have plot twists revealed for someone who's totally immersed in the experience, but sometimes I need to know that there is indeed something worth building to in the first place! And seeing the execution of a thing is much more meaningful than knowing something is going to exist at all, because, like you said, it's only new to you once, and ultimately it has to stand on its own merits without the benefit of surprise at some point.
anyway thanks for showing off the void stranger footage knowing that things start building very quickly has me much more interested; with zeroranger I'm still lost as to whether or not it's supposed to have gotten to the cool stuff by the time I stepped away
As much as I respect your approach, maybe you just have to build a tolerance for being disappointed? You don't "need" to know there will be a payoff to *each* experience - sometimes not having one is part of the fun (a more meaningful payoff later on)! And by that I mean I am more fussed about spoilers than you, no judgements attached :v
All that said, it is also fine to walk away from stuff if they don't feel fun...
The backlog is large and the attention span is erratic; sometimes the immersion just isn't there and having a bit of information to chew on is the difference between finishing a game and it falling down the memory hole. Sometimes a total lack of information is more overwhelming than knowing at least a little of what to expect, and having something to look for allows the freedom to explore everything else I don't know. And for a fun twist, sometimes I'm so immersed in a game that I need to keep digging into info about it even when I need to take a break from playing it!
"is this adhd" yes, yes it is
And to be clear this isn't universally how I play games, I get to enjoy plenty of surprises I wasn't aware of, and I'm never going to tell you about the cool bits of a game that rely on withheld knowledge unless you're asking! But the act of knowing something ahead of time, out of context, really doesn't need to wreck an experience at all.
Ultimately I think spoilers are like basically any other option to get through something faster or makes something available without "earning" it. Their value is entirely dependent on whether the experiences that they allow you to have are more worthwhile than the ones they let you skip.
Sometimes spoilers can not just be getting through something faster but getting through something at all, too.
If you'll permit me to share a brief story:
A few years back I was playing through a trilogy of Shadowrun Dragonfall/Hong Kong custom campaigns and after something happened only a short way into the 3rd entry, I would have dropped and written off the whole lot then and there if not for a spoiler. But now, having stayed the course thanks to that spoiler, I can look back on the many hours spent playing those campaigns with fondness rather than disappointment.
@@WhitzWolf92 Yeah, that's fair too. I'm gonna edit a bit to acknowledge that since I didn't word it as well as I might have.
I have a hilariously poor memory due to ADHD, so I can occasionally experience these things twice AND spoilers just hype me up for a game because I know I'll probably forget the details by the time I get to something myself.
I really appreciate the conclusion of this video, and it highlights how a well-designed NG+ experience can add a lot new to a game. I've never been a fan of NG+ modes that are just "replay the game but with all the OP stuff from your first playthrough," because it allows your mechanical advantages, rather than your new knowledge and perspective, to carry you through the experience.
One of my favorite NG+ approaches comes from my personal 2021 GOTY, UNSIGHTED. One of the NG+ options is to reset your stats and inventory, but allow you to keep all your crafting recipes, (which, notably, includes recipes for all the metroidvania progression lock items.) This mode allows you to exercise your knowledge of existing game mechanics, intended progression paths, and crafting material locations to sequence break your second playthrough very early on, enabling you to experience the game from a new perspective while maintaining the challenge associated with a fresh playthrough's power curve.
Runner-up for favorite NG+ experience is a miracle-only challenge run in Dark Souls 3. Two of the best offensive miracles in that game are unlocked via the final DLC (Lightning Arrow) and after beating the final boss (Sunlight Spear). Accordingly, a miracle-only challenge run is only really viable in NG+, and that kind of run works best when you can leverage your knowledge of bosses and enemies to pick the right miracle for the situation. It allowed me to experience DS3 from a completely new mechanical perspective, and is still my favorite playthrough of a soulslike to-date.
you make very good points in how “avoiding spoilers” is functionally impossible and has a lot more nuance, but something about the pacing of the video… feels like it lost it’s point every now and then, or it just flew by too fast? I had to pause multiple times just to understand everything you were laying down
got a bit better by the end though methinks
The Dark Souls 1 tutorial videos with some spoilers is actually the only reason why I was able to progress after Taurus Demon, and started actually liking the game
0:07 Most people I ask go for Obra Dinn or Ghost Trick for that
I disagree on going in unspoiled being impossible. I got into Ghost Trick knowing nothing but the cover art. I got into Evangelion knowing a portrait of Ayanami, knowing she's emotionless, that it had mecha, and that the show had a high amount of TVTropes entries. I got into Harry Potter way back when knowing it was my first novel and that a single young adult I didn't know liked it. I got into Papers Please knowing what Jorji looked like, and got into FTL from the name, title screen and a random comment. I got into Breaking Bad knowing less than I did of Evangelion, only knowing it had a high amount of TVTropes entries, and Stanley Parable by knowing the loading screen and 10 minutes of half-remembered gameplay from a terminally ill chilean sims player. It's very easy to go unspoiled into something. You just have to remember it's name and GO IN.
more people need to play Void Stranger that game utterly consumed my life for like a week. Hell, there are still a few secrets I need to get back around to figuring out even after reaching the secret ending.
Your 20(23) games video didn't quite convince me to give void stranger a try but this video did so wish me luck!
How's it going?
I thought this one was a little more rambly than usual but the quality of visual humour in matching the clips to what you're saying was top-form. I especially liked the use of two different variants of the Tarrey Town music to bracket your main point *chef's kiss*
I do enjoy replaying a game once i've forgotten big sections of it, like Portal 2's story will never surprise me again quite the same way but I will forget the solutions to most of the puzzles lol
The reason why I want to be able to rediscover games like it was the first time, is simple. I can't push myself to play or watch something I've already seen or done. Even if playing a second time allow a new perspective, most of the time, when the discovery that enable this appear, I almost immediately make the connections. Making a second play through more of a chore than a new experience.
Resident evil 4 (2005) fixed this problem for me. I've played that game 3 times in the past 6 months. It's fucking incredible how well paced that game is. the mechanical mastery you're able to achieve is really just icing on the cake
I rather like the phrasing here that you begin your journey with any new game from a point of total ignorance and that that's part of the reason you can never go back with fresh eyes. You're no longer ignorant of what's to be had.
That's why I think it's important to preserve that ignorance as much as you can. You might never be able to really tell when you're about to experience something unforgettable you'd want to revisit "for the first time" so it's best to let it surprise you.
I always do blind playthroughs, never look things up unless I'm legit brick walled, which quite frankly I've played so many videos games at this point that if I'm truly at an impasse it's more likely a problem with the game then anything else, which means it's unlikely a candidate for the topic at hand. Bad games aren't things you generally wish to re-experience with fresh eyes. You're mileage may vary on a couple things there.
The most pertinent example recently is probably still Elden Ring. Played through that thing totally blind, offline, media black out, etc. It's one of my favorite gaming experiences of all time. That's not to say it's "bad" to look things up, however it's a game that I could kind of peg as being one of those special experiences before playing it; it has the developer history, the pedigree and I'm already a huge fan of the series. Knowing that it was key to know as little about the game as possible to wring out my maximum experience with it.
That is to say; I knew I'd only get to play Elden Ring for the first time once and I couldn't go back and erase my memory to do it again. Like the man in the video said. So why would I ever preemptively seek out details and knowledge about the game before experiencing them for the first time myself?
If erasing your memory is some desire for an ersatz first play through then surely implanting that same information into your memory, memories you'll supposedly want to subsequently wish that you could clean from the slate, beforehand from secondary sources would be undesirable. Right?
Ultimately it's different strokes from different folks. Perhaps the experience someone, who is not me, wants to relive is the experience of following a walkthrough. Maybe that's new enough for them and still appreciably different from replaying the game again with, I don't know, a different walkthrough. Or not using one. Maybe they just like Leo Decaprio'meming the scenes they recognize from the trailer. That's valid. There's a whole section in the video discussing the bad design of games the focus on grinding or "optimal play". Those games are also the most successful types of games by many metrics you know? Who are we to judge? Sometimes I like to eat slop too. Go grind rocks and sticks. Go ignore 95% of a games content because you looked up the optimal play pattern. Go have fun. That's the point.
But if you're the kind of person who really does look back and laments that they wish they could totally forget a game, so that they could "play it again for the first time" well, in light of the fact that we know you can't do that let me instead recommend maximizing that first run. You can never forget but at the least you can damn sure go in the first time with that slate as blank and clean as possible.
Also as a related side note; when I first played Dark Souls the second boss I beat was Pinwheel. It made my experience quite different and really special for me. Finding my way through the catacombs while so unprepared is a lifetime gaming memory for me. If a bunch of folks had told me "You're not supposed to go through the skeleton graveyard yet dummy. Go here instead!" I might have never had the special first play through. Just saying. Life is chok'o'blok full of exceptions and nuance.
I want you to know that I both noticed, and highly appreciated, the use of the evolving, layered, Tarrey Town theme throughout the video, in it's different forms.
first person to notice it!
16:25 I dislike content warnings in horror games.
Especially the ones about trauma like SH: The Short Message or The Medium.
If the game straight up tells you the content is about sudoku and rap, then you already know the theme and the trauma.
With enough alcohol you can forget anything
im autistic n have been homeless from 17 until 27 so traumatic experience n short term memory caused me to forget specifics of why i love game like legends of dragoon or Re2. my mind blanks when trying to explain but i never forget the feeling. each time i play games i do wildly different things in them too
Void Stranger is super amazing. I loved it so much that I tried my hand at speedrunning to get more of it.
personally i find the idea that only the emotions of a playthrough are so important that somehow justifies throwing the entire experience related to it into the garbage just to experience that feeling again to be kinda insulting.
like video games are just some dopamine drug to 'get high' on. i would never throw away my experience with a game. its always precious, good or bad.
Edit: Skip the Spoiler when warned (warning at around 7 mins). Heavily recommend to skip. Void Stranger is best blind.
Just finished beating (hopefully) 90% of Void Stranger. Nice timing with the video.
Feel like I'm there too, some of the tactical spoilers shown here I didn't figure out until way later, like way way later. I was proud to figure them out too. That said some I had spoiled as well, but ignored until I saw the prompt that would reveal the mechanic.
Skip the void stranger spoiler talk is my recommendation, but if that is what gets someone to play it, watch it.
Games are like onions. The more layers you peel off the more you want to cry cause you can’t put them back
Also shrek is in a few of them so
Legitimately until very late into the writing process I started the script with the line "Games, much like onions, ogres and parfait, have layers"
Yakuza 0 is that game for me.
Same goes for shows though, yeah some are still enjoyable when you re-watch it but the first time is always special.
YES FINALLY A VIDEO ABOUT VOID STRANGER!!!!! I absolutely loved this game, def my favorite of 2023
And the developers previous game Zeroranger was no slough either.
@matteste played zeroranger after void stranger, it's really incredible as well
@@DanielG-e8t And even before that so was the maker of these two games on of the leading edge when it came to innovation in the Fraxy scene.
@@matteste fraxy scene?
@@DanielG-e8t You can think of Fraxy as a program similar to MUGEN, but for shmup's rather than fighting games.
The creator of ZeroRanger and Void Stranger was one of the most innovative figures on the scene back in the day, constantly finding new ways to use the engine to create some fantastic creations that served as inspiration for many other creators to follow.
You can check out creations such as "Fragments of Men", "Samsara" or "Final Dream" for some of his more iconic ones. Or you could look up creations done by other people that became reality thanks to his innovations such as "Atlas", "Acedia" and "Wrath" just to name but a few.
This is why I unexpectedly fell in love with EU4, which seemed needlessly complex at first glance, but it turned out to be pretty accessible and the complexity could be gradually explored at your own pace and gave a near endless feeling of learning and discovery.
I love this, this kind of analysis in What makes our game experience the way? It is is fantastic!!
As someone who just finished replacing outer wilds 4ish years after playing it for the first time, you can really get the magic back with good old "Time". Portal came out nearly 17 years ago you wont remember all of it. There are many books that i reread and if it has been long enough and you read enough you can still be caught with a twist. Im currently replaying toki tori 2 it is a game only about knowledge locks but i still need to do the leg work to relearn systems. I do love your vids. :D
or you can have a crappy memory like me and never remember much if anything before the 2nd go
It’s part of why I try my best not to get 100% completion on my first play through. Leaves me things to see on my next time through
PvP games in general have a lot of layers of strategic depth to find, but one particularly fantastic mechanic that completely recontextualizes the game once you learn about it is the GRD system in under night in-birth. Under night is a fairly basic fighting game on the surface, with your usual fare of 3 attack buttons, special moves done via motion inputs and a super meter, but there's also a weird-looking meter with diamond shapes in the bottom center of the screen, and while the tutorial does explain what it is you'll probably completely ignore it for your first 30 or so hours because it's nonessential for a beginner. As you get better though, you'll start actually paying attention to it and realizing how you've probably been playing wrong the whole time without realizing it: the GRD meter builds from both sides, and the player whose meter is highest after every 16 second cycle is given a powerful buff called vorpal, which gives you extra meter gain and access to chain shift, a single use move that cancels your current action and converts all your GRD into super meter. The key is that almost all your moves interact with the GRD meter in some way, some moves build GRD, some moves drain your GRD, some moves steal the opponent's GRD, and some even cause a GRD break, freezing your opponent's GRD and locking them out of all their moves that cost it, pretty much everything you do impacts the GRD game in some way and it's basically an entire separate game you play at the same time. Learning about how the GRD system works basically recontextualizes everything you know about the game, some moves you thought were extremely spammable actually cost GRD and you were giving the opponent free vorpal (aka throwing) without realizing, under night while paying attention to the GRD meter versus not paying attention to it are two completely different games
the rocks only say lore if they’re alone, rocks in rooms where there are other rocks have random messages
I can never play online shooters from the late 90s/early 00s the same way anymore, but at least I could play them for many hours a day, for several years like that.
BG3's honour mode is truly no joke.
The first fight you'll likely run into after the tutorial consists of 3 intellect devourers.
Back in EA, I learned some tricks to win this fight, because it's kinda hard with 2 lvl1 characters. Mainly you wanna keep your distance because they lack a range attack.
Honour mode gives these bastards a ranged attack, leading to an interesting strategy where you deliberately let Lae'zel die in the tutorial so her corpse will spawn on the starting beach, allowing you to resurect her there (possibly even awarding enough xp to level up) and face this fight with more muscle.
The mode also saw me thinking about an optimal 4 man party designed to maximize the efficiency of each short rest
Honour mode in general is probably also the most genuine d&d experience for some. Like in the Tabletop, you can't undo any decisions and you're forced to roll with all the punches. What this also means is that it creates a level of mechanical pressure that changes your decision-making. Murdering the refugees in act 1 is awful and few people do it, but it IS a considerably easier resolution to the conflict than taking on the entire goblin camp or doing the second grove gate fight (unless you barrelmance your way to victory).
for those wanting my party comp:
-Battlemaster fighter: has crowd-control abilities that recharge on short rest, and if you can beat Grym and acquire the adamantine splint mail and shield, they'll debuff any melee attacker that targets them while having a very high AC and immunity to crits.
-Warlock: any pact will do, but probs fiend for the free HP per kill. Great ranged damage which can include crowd-control, spell slots recharge on short rests.
-College of swords Bard (likely respecced Astarion: has Healing word (best healing spell IMO), bunch of buffs and debuffs, and if you can kill the Gith inquisitor, the circlet synergizes very well with the subclass. Usually Astarion for the elven longbow proficiency, which allows him to use slashing flourish to target two people for respectable DPS. Gives a 3rd short rest per long rest, which the comp is based around.
-Moon Druid: also has healing word + a whole bunch of zoning spells. Wildshape lets you tank a lot of damage, and with Owlbear form, you can cheese several fights (like Grym) by using your jump attack from serious high ground. Wildshape recharges on short rests.
I've started Immortality and Void Stranger today. What are the odds ?!
I love the subtle nod to Egoraptor at 15:50.
It's something interesting, because wanting to forget to reexperience something is a feeling that is very foreign to me.
I've always considered the experience of a game as an integral part of my global construction, and losing that brick would mean everything else coming after would be damaged by it.
So in no way would I want to forget about the steps that led me to be who I am now.
I notice you mention a similar aspect near the end, so I guess the conclusions aren't too different.
1:00 Link jumpscare moment?? subliminal link messaging???????? WHAT COULD IT MEAN
Perhaps one of my favorite things that relates to this is exploits and special tactics, such as windbombs in breath of the wild
Being able to fly around however and whereever I wanted was, really fun, and let me approach things and areas from a new avenue
This is why I have hundreds of hours in the binding of Isaac but I still feel like a beginner and I can’t get enough of it
I think this video explains why I've been getting into randomizers lately, especially with games centered around item/equipment based progression such as the Zelda series. Instead of doing things or visiting places in the usual order, I'm now constantly having to think about where I can go and what I can do based on what I've been able to find. A game I love and know like the back of my hand becomes a giant puzzle that changes with every new playthrough! It's also very fun finding important items in silly places.
One of my favorite randomizers to play right now is the Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask combo randomizer. It's constantly getting updated with new things to randomize (pot and grass contents, fairy fountain fairies, the fish from the fishing game, freestanding rupees, and even NPCs, bosses, and enemies, can be thrown into the item pool!), and I just love running around in the world of N64 Hyrule/Termina in general.
I wish each clip had the game the Title of the game shown in tiny text in the top left corner of the screen
22:06 For me, it was somersaulting around Hyrule field until it turned to nighttime and immediately hitting the reset button on my N64 the moment the first skeleton popped out.
i enjoy the second and later layers of stories and games WAY more than going in blind. going in blind is always frustrating, upsetting, and generally less enjoyable because i have a hard time piecing things together without context (and the autism). being able to see and appreciate forshadowing and character complexities that lead to otherwise bizzare-seeming actions and worldbuilding and story moments that build into later reveals is so much more satisfying, as is not being absolutely terrible at the game combined with not knowing what to do or how to approach things. as a result i never understood this impulse people have to go back. to me if something is good, it means those later layers are good and fun to engage with, because it was made with those layers of understanding in mind.
As someone with anxiety issues, I tend to like (and often seek out) spoilers for a lot of media I consume, so I have a better idea of what the intentions are and what aspects of it I have to grit my teeth through (and whether or not it's worth it).
I still like playing through and seeing HOW things unfold and will appreciate the nuances of the execution, with the knowledge of how it'll culminate.
I guess maybe like how one would take a 2nd playthrough.
I second this so hard, playing through a game the first time is never as enjoyable as the second. Personally, i do try to avoid spoilers, but it means I'm constantly worrying whether or not I am doing something wrong throughout the first playthrough. Maybe that's why I prefer keeping to the games I already know through and through 😅
That time traveling level on Dishonored 2 was done so well i really loved those games
In a similar vein to speedrunning, some games become fasinating new experiences when you choose to "change the rules". Example: Playing Stardew Valley with the goal of earning money as quickly as possible. The very old RPG Nethack can take 50 hours to beat, then another 50 to figure out how to beat it as a pacifist.
I never wish to forget and repeat a game. The memory stays with me and has its own value.
As someone who have a hard time getting into a new game - usually takes a few hours since I play mostly long genres : RPG, strategy etc., I absolutely don't want to come back fresh as if my memory has been erased. It's way easier the 2nd time and I can apreciate the game from the start.
Plus if the writing is any good, any plot twist makes the 2nd go as if not more interesting, searching for foreshadowing clues.
I seek out spoiler like a bloodhound. I find I don't miss out on the things I've heard people they say are "ruined" by spoilers and simultaneously avoid frustration.
You’re always a legend. Thank you.
For me, the game I'd like to experience again from scratch, would be Antichamber. I loved playing that game, and I can't have that first time again :p
"Every step of forward progress we make" *shows the Endwalking*
Cute
I wish I was still young enough to have this problem. At this point I can barely remember the control scheme of a game I was playing yesterday, I certainly won't remember the plot of anything I played more than a year ago.
My man really age regressing into little space outside peaches castle. Good for you honestly
Thor Highheels is such a great youtuber! So underrated! Trust AMs recommendation, you won't be disappointed
this is why i make my friends play the games i like, and just watch
This is why I think developers are wrong when they say that in order to make a new game you need to provide something new. People say: if you want to play X game you have already X game. But you can never experience games as the first time.
You know it's a good month when adam uploads.
That "stages of super paper maroo" bit is so based
Hi Adam, you are my favourite video game essayist. I think we could further refine the discussion by semantically separating 'expectations' from 'spoilers'. We can say that expectations may be advantageous and cultivated by the game itself and the wider cultural context in which is it played. Whereas, spoilers are unwanted information with undermine the game experience. Spoilers can also come from outside the game or from the game itself, for example if a plot twist is too predictable. Best of luck with your fantastic work
I wish I could forget Umineko and replay it for the first time again, but there are so many layers to it that I'm still finding new things about it years later, so I'm still enjoying it.
this was the kick i needed to actually try void stranger. just have to beat symphony of the night first
As someone who recently completed Outer Wilds, I'll make sure that I'll be told to play it again if I get dementia
you know, with hypnosis, if you're susceptible enough, you can lock off the memories of playing a game so that you can experience it for the first time again
Seconding the tactical spoilers. We are awash with good media and having foresight into what makes a game special when you may have set aside otherwise.
this is the #1 reason I would take Copper Feruchemy over any other. Being able to dump memories of any event to reexperience it would be amazing!
I would pay at least double to experience Tunic again for the first time.
After more than 15 hours of playing Void Stranger I came back to this video curious about what Adam had said regarding his "first two or three hours" of play. Turns out this was a huge mistake and he went on to talk about/show many things I had yet to discover...
Me dying more times on my second run of Celeste: “yeah it’s pretty easy now.”
I will never ever forget my first time playing BotW.
The climbing being the most atrocious garbage ever made, running out of stamina 2 seconds after i started sprinting, finding the reward of this cool thing to just be another weapon that broke one fight later.