Model 317K and BSW: Exceptional German .22 Rifles
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- The early German rifles are so well made. I am excited to show you these sporters: the Model 317K and a BSW in a very interesting caliber. This BSW even holds a secret! After we learn and explore these exceptional firearms, join me on Patreon and Instagram for more USOG content. Thanks for watching!
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That 317K has a really eye catching piece of walnut, but both guns are clearly gems. Your statement that "German rifles are so well made" is true and not only of German firearms. That devotion to quality and precision is something that is almost a genetic trait of Germans. It is perhaps best exemplified by how one of the last German Panther tanks that was made (and was captured by the British just as it was coming off the assembly line) had perfect welds, joints, chains, etc., and looks like the type of tank a person would take to a dance. Whereas a T-34-85 would have rough cut armor that would easily cut a hand, joints that might be so loosely fitted a hand could fit through the gaps, welds that may or may not hold, etc. Yet, while the Panther was being perfectly made in the factory the T-34-85 was in the fight, and that is why it is known as a tank that wins wars.
Anyway, the CZ-455 that you have praised has its origins with Germany in 1943-44 wanting a Mauser 98k type .22 training rifle. That is why the CZ-452 line and its successor rifles have those awesome Mauser style sights. Hence, even though they aren't German made rifles they are still heavily influenced by the German firearms industry.
Very informative. I remember reading how German machinery of all kinds suffered in the Brutal Russian winter - while the Russian (Soviet) machines had generous tolerences and had no trouble.
This is the absolute finest long gun channel on ALL of RUclips. Thank you for your absolute awesomeness. Deano
Thank you Deano!
SEM (Suhler Einhakmontage) is the german term for your claw mount. These are still available. You could also buy a conversion kit to a picatinny rail.
Good idea! I did not know - the rail may be the way...assuming I don't have to change anything. I'm fine with the irons but the scope is there - may as well get it in place.
Great video Mike, 22's should have so much more respect than they get. I totally get that you are comfortable with a wide variety of triggers. In a previous video, perhaps in a clumsy way I tried to describe that on a few of my rifles I felt that I was reaching for the trigger, and would have to take a mindful high forward grip which was slightly uncomfortable and certainly not natural for me. I watched a video about custom gun stocks and the man who made these referred to the length of pull which is important and also the "grip" length of pull, that he would customize to fit the owner of the rifle. He spoke of having a stock be a natural fit and trigger to grip distance is one of the aspects which he customizes in his walnut stocks. It is so important to have a stock fit just right for off hand shooting. I felt that I was cursed with short thick hands, but I know what to look for in a stock fit as I experience more rifles. I just wanted to throw this out there for other shooters who might think they have a bad trigger pull but really, the stock grip might not be designed to the best advantage of how their hands are made. Again, thank you so much for the excellent videos!
pseudopetrus thanks for sharing this interesting post with us through Mike. His are my favourite firearm videos-I’m not a pistol user for similar reasons that you have felt like you were 'reaching for the trigger'-my hands, (& short reach). I had a spinal cord injury when I used to work for a ski resort, and was flagging rocks before opening a run in very early season conditions. I found a lot of rocks all at once but, I digress. My injury paralyzed my hands and triceps, leaving me with arms that have a rather 'T-Rex' like, SHORT reach. My very creative friend fabricated some equipment that enables me to be an acceptable shot. Then I found Boyd’s At One stock, and my friend built my 10/22 around it, & I became a much better shot! The Length Of Pull & Comb-Height are as adjustable as on most biathlon stocks. It’s also possible to get pieces that’ll allow the palm swell to be adjusted. I just got another for a Tikka T3x Lite, which I’ve yet to try. Now, I’ve got to find some way to make a K-31 bolt & an ISSC SPA toggle both easier to close!
@@frufru0071 Thank you for sharing your story about being resilient, persistent, and inventive in the face of what sounds like a great challenge. I am so pleased that you have found a way to enjoy shooting and improve your shot. I also would like to thank your creative friend, it helps a lot when you have support like that. For best accuracy and consistency, the rifle needs to fit right and I am glad you are working on 2 very nice straight pull rifles, I think they will be worth the effort. I am kinda jealous, I love the K-31! Best wishes!
pseudopetrus thank you-very-very much for those kind words. Great people attract other great people and you are a great example of how Mike’s channel has done exactly that. I’ve met many incredibly kind people since being a member of the firearms 'community'. I count Channel USOG as part of the community, like a neighbour who’s company is enjoyable! Cheers, friend 🍻🙏
I am grateful to you both, and all the fine people from around the world that somehow arrived on my humble channel. The very best to you both.
@@frufru0071 Thank you, you are so welcome, and I agree Mike's channel is like best friends getting together to talk about our favorite sport!
Thanks for another very interesting video Mike. Rifles like that have so much character. They are just so well made,they shout,precision and quality.
I wish I knew more about them...maybe with time. Thank you Stephen.
Wow, more beautiful rifles to dream about owning. 22 is such a fun round to shoot too. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks WC! Have a super weekend.
Excellent video, overdue for sure! I have a Mauser model ES-350 among others in my .22 collection; made in the '30's to compete with our Winchester model 52's that were dominating rimfire competition back then. The only problem now is that they have become very collectible and some such as my 350, (single shot) go upwards to $4500 in nice condition. The largest collection of these I have seen/heard about are in the basement at Simpson Ltd. in Illinois. Most GI's on occupation duty mostly found civilian hunting rifles after all the military weapons had been confiscated. Since many were country guys who could appreciate a nice .22 for small game were quick to take all they could find. Mr. Simpson apparently realized how nice these were and in the 40's thru the 60's was able to pick up many for about $10 a piece. He has about 1200 in his collection of just about every variety known! Thanks again for the great subject matter!
Thanks Steven - such high demand and interest in these rifles - and no more made. Your ES 350 is one of those gems that no one can find. Thanks for writing.
Great video. Very interesting. I have an old Walther .22 that I just love. Amazing quality.
Hi Dan - Walther made a .22 that was bolt action and semi-auto. Very cool.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns Yes. They are best rifles. Mine is a mint condition KKM single shot. It's extremely accurate. The trigger is one of the best I have shot with. It's a mid to late 1950s I believe. No barrel date code :(.
I’ve got a model 2 bolt and semi, pretty mint condition, lovely rifles
Excellent video I have been picking up rifles whenever possible for years
Bravo Tony!
Great video as always. My Dad brought some 22 traning rifles home from Germany after WWII. Wish I just had them.
Thanks David!
I'm looking forward to seeing more of that old rifle in the foreground you're teasing.
Hi Michael - will do : )
Kind of reminds me of my Cooey single shots Canadian quality!🤠
Hi Randy - I like that. : )
Great video, I had never heard of these rifles before. I always learn something from all of your videos. Thanks!
My guess is that most everything of value including rifles were sold to GI's or other foreigners right after the war rather than taken? At least in the west. Germans were understandably struggling following WWII and selling a rifle like either of those meant a family was able to buy food. I had several family members, including my grandfather, that were stationed in German and all of them brought things home that they bought there. I also have heard first hand accounts from some older Germans of just how difficult those times were. It was a tragic period.
Hi Tom, I agree - such a complete tragedy. My Mother was born in Dortmund and went through every kind of suffering with her family. You're right, those things that were not liberated were often sold or bartered. Every version of survival took place. I still can't quite understand how a species that is so intelligent kills and causes the suffering of so many of its own kind. Maybe I'm naive.
I'm REALLY GLAD see this PARTICULAR VIDEO of all the previous ones I've seen before. At an NCGCA gunshow YEARS AGO a very interesting single shot (German maybe Austrian) that was a cross between the two rifles in your video. It had a twin trigger assembly (I've never seen a 22lr with twin triggers before) and it had had the CLAW mounting system (never seen that before on a 22lr before) but the shape and location of the ejection port was different. It had a opening one the TOP like the other rifle and it was shaped a little different, more of a oval shape.(from what I remember). I was DROOLING, I WANTED IT!!!! The dealer wanted $375 for it but I had NO CASH but I had a NEW lightly used S&Ŵ model 41 for a trade. The dealer only wanted CASH so I ended trading for a Kimber GOVERNMENT marked model 81 target rifle. I REALLY WANTED THAT OTHER SINGE SHOT WITH THE TWIN TRIGGERS!!!!😮😢😢
Interesting post - I'll have to think about which rifle/action you saw. Thx for sending.
@@UnitedStatesOfGunsI would GREATLY APPRECIATE IF YOU COULD THINK WHAT THAT PARTICULAR RIFLE COULD HAVE BEEN, I enjoy different and interesting weapons especially 22's here is an examples of a few of my favorite pieces that I acquired recently. By the way I saw that COOL European rifle about 10-15 years ago at LEAST, hard to pin down how long ago it was. I've got into single shot 22's lately: PRE-WWII German Mauser trainers Es340N, Es340B, Mauser Sporter, Youth model BUA, Remington Rolling Block #1 1/2 in 22lr (Sporter-fewer than 5,000 made), Stevens Ideal model #44-22lr, BRNO #2(UAR) 22lr trainer (sporterized) and the Japanese copy of the Winchester 1885 in 22lr w/tang sight. Those are my favorite pieces.😁👍
Amazing firearms boss man absolutely beautiful‼️
317K is an extremely accurate rifle with a very strong extractor. If you are fortunate enough to come across one, snatch it up.
Thank you System 3 - these are "must buys" for sure.
My grandpa had one, but he passed away when I was a teenager and my grandma handed his rifle to the police thereafter (I guess she wasn't a fan lol).
Another excellent video. Please make a video about older break action stalking rifles if you have access to any. I just got a 9.3x72r stalking rifle from the early 1920's, it's German and has set triggers. Not much info out there about that kind of gun.
Hello Luchace, Will do - I have to get a couple in the studio. You have what I've looked for, for many years : a 9.3x72R. This is an excellent cartridge within 200 M/Yards - I dropped deer with it. I understand there are laws in certain European countries that define minimum bullet energy levels and the 9.3X72R sometimes falls short (viewers told me this). Mild recoil, good bore size and heavy bullets with low velocity - an ideal close range deer number. Thanks for the suggestion.
Superb video as usual.
I wish you would tell us specifically what brand of rifle as you pick it up, so we know for certain. You do on some, but on a few you don't. Great videos, I appreciate you doing them.
Love your channel man
Thanks Jermy! I need these words : )
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns you do a great job thank you for your hard work
I've been told that dry firing a 22 can not only damage the pin, but the pin strikes offset, so it will strike the action and can cause a dimple that could cause it to slam fire.
The one closest to you has an absolutely gorgeous stock.
Thanks Jim!
Thank you USOG another outstanding video! How might this German 22 compare to the westernfield(mossberg) tube fed bolt, or the Win 67 bolt----they are all from same era? I am assuming you have these two-lol. We all like 22's so another video would be swell!
: ( I don't have those .22s. I think the German .22s I show here are a little higher quality - but I shouldn't say for sure until I see the others. Thanks for mentioning.
My old dad and his brothers used Walther 22 to hunt like those.Before ww2 there was big need to get food on the table. So they hunt a lot indeed.They used mainly Walther 22 with semi auto boltaction made sw.1930- I still own that rifle and it shoot like new. Amazing gun and i dont think to sold.
Ah, I see my granddad's old Stevens Favourite sitting in the foreground on the table.
These guns lead us back through time, like a trail in a forest of years.
I just bought an old prewar BSW Double shotgun that is coming in the mail.I hope it is good like you say they are.Germans are usually good at making guns and the ones I have tried are amazing quality, like the M98 and Weirhrauch's.Glad to see there are still inexpensive examples remaining here in Canada.I don't want to destroy its collectability making it into a shooter, as so many others do.I love your channel ; enjoy looking at your beautiful collection, and appreciate you style of collecting.
Great shotgun Don - hope it is in decent shape. I shot one of those - had the usual "steel vault" feeling to it. Glad the channel is okay : )
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns I have owned nice guns my entire life [7-68yo] and this is the best Quality firearm I have ever had, and especially for the small money I payed.Still looks good .so someone looked after it over the decades.Has a engraving of a duck on the bottom and scroll engraving on the sides with greener lockup and seems old but sturdy.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns It is in really good shape with a nice bore and a manufacture date of 1935.The lockup is tight and has the greener Bolt system.Probably the nicest gun I have ever bought, and was so cheap in price @ Less than $200 Canadian, so I have a Husquavarna 310A on order from the same store[Tradex] for a bit more money.Heard good things about the prewar Husquavarna's but have never touched one yet.It should arrive in a few days.
Talking about German guns I do recall that my friend Grover had around 5 or so Schuetzen rifles in his collection. I am sure you are aware of how ornate and beautiful they can be. I never fired any of those particular weapons. There was one time we were going to shoot one but somehow the gunsmith sold him the wrong casings for the rifle so we never went. He also told me that the Schuetzen style of shooting came out of Germany and went into Russia but there the men would squat down on one leg balancing as they stretched the other leg out towards the muzzle of of the rifle. They would drink Vodka squat then shoot and those who could not keep their balance on one leg and missed the target were eliminated. The last one left squatting on one leg while drinking without missing won the competition. He also had a few Drilling guns with three barrels different calibers from Germany, another group of weapons I got to see but never fired..!
Amazing - doesn't sound like the safest tournament - but I guess people do these things.
5.6x35 is a propreietary cartridge similar to .22 Hornet. Some of these older German rifles have load data e.g. charge weight stamped on the barrel so the 35 may refer to some loading. Thanks for the video.
Thanks Conrad!
Have you ever seen or handled a Globco Mohawk. It is just a sporterized svt40 chambered in 303 british.
Hi Dalan - Yes - I owned one and I liked it but it didn't always work. Sometimes it would not feed and sometimes it would not eject. I could have got it working but someone wanted it as is. I would buy another just to have such a unique rifle.
I would really like to see these being fired from a bench, just to watch the actions and see the accuracy of these beautiful .22's.
My 'weakness' is for all .22 caliber rifles, these examples are two that I have not seen before.
"So many rifles, so little time,...and money!"
Hi Reg - I can do that! Good idea. Will do.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns Good, and Thanks!
My boss gave me one of these, besides a landmann, a sauer tell rifle and a poor condition mauser .22 trainer. He knows that i like the old stuff more than the new one and this guns are difficult to sell here, so he is happy that he dont has to destroy them.
Mine seems to have british proof marks, unfortunately the rear sight is missing,
Great boss! : )
I've purposely put old but functional scopes on old rifles. I've been criticized for this, but I've had no problems so far.
Great channel. You wouldn't happen to know how to disassemble the bolt on the 317K, by chance? I've found one that has a very light striking firing pin that I would need to troubleshoot.
Hi Thirsty Fox, Please remove the screw that is forward of the trigger guard and the front sling swivel - these retain the action. Sometimes owners remove the trigger guard screws - but these only hold the trigger guard. With the action out of the stock you can remove the bolt easily - the shell extractor has a spring so you could keep an eye on that. With the bolt out you'll see a small split screw retaining a pin. Removing that allows the bolt o come apart. Hope your rifle works the same as mine. Best of luck.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns Thank you for your kind reply. I removed the bolt and the firing pin screw, which allowed the firing pin to be removed out the front of the bolt face. However, I can't seem to figure out how to take apart the rest of the bolt. I've tried the safety in all 3 positions but can't figure out the next step.
Currently the firing pin only leaves a pretty faint imprint on the round, not enough to set it off. I'm trying to figure out if the issue is the firing pin or the chambering of the round somehow. I really hope to get it working as it's a beautiful rifle. Something about the old metal just feels so slick and pleasant to use.
Thank you again for your help. Love the channel by the way -- been binge watching since I found it!
After the Germans surrender in ww2 the German citizens were required to surrender every firearm they owned or be arrested. These firearms were taken by the American and British soldiers and brought home. The surrendered 22lr firearms were the most popular with the American soldiers because of ammo availability. So when he said they were all out of the country that is why.
Cci quiet is my favorite!
For me as well - best .22 development in a long time.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns the aguila colibri was also a favorite of mine - many hours spent target shooting in my shop. It's a shame I have s really hard time finding the colibri in my area.
Straight shooting my friend!
Question. Does or did Finland make sporting 22 rifles of that quality? Finland knows how to make rifles and has a great history of shooting. I actually don’t have any German made sporting 22’s believe it or not. I’ve been buying every CZ that catches my eye, either by design or chambering. Thank you for informing me about the manufacturer names. I’ll be looking for them now.
Aaron, Sako of Finland make a very high quality .22 LR sporter called the Finnfire here in the UK. It also comes as a target version called the 'Range', with a longer and heavier barrel and a target style stock. For a time there was another version called the 'Quad' that could be had with interchangeable barrels in .22 LR, .17 HM2, .17 HMR and .22 Magnum. The CZ rimfires are great rifles - I owned one for over 35 years, but finally I was tempted by a used Finnfire in superb condition and I haven't been disappointed - it's a big step up in quality and the accuracy is great. I still miss that old CZ though we used to call them 'Brnos' back then.
Thanks for the info. I will definitely hunt those up.
Hi Aaron - I like the Sako .22 and there is the Tikka now - but I don't have a video up yet. I think they could build the best if they wanted to - just a matter of how many would be willing to pay.
That’s true. I would, especially if they had nice stocks. I’m going to try and find some of those old German, or other, sporting rifles.
What about the Walther model V Champion I think it’s called. I know it’s a single shot made before the war
What happened to Gustloff Werke after they got dissolved?
Hello Axel, My German collector friend tells me that the Nazi government established GW as sort of state sponsored and funded factories and after the war the entire structure collapsed and disappeared.
USOG ie; Mike, What were the .22's that you would see around the Natives in the far north? You've spoken about the amazing things they would do with them
Hi Brendon - most memorable were the Marlin 39's - but I saw bolt action Cooeys (Canadian) and Remington pumps as well as Winchesters - they liked the one's that could take short, long and long rifle. I saw a few ducks shot on the wing as easily as if they were shooting stationary tin cans. Practice makes perfect I guess.
USOG oh wow that is cool. Really make me want some Henry rimfires and the Remington 552. A semi auto firing short, L and LR
Tengo un stall krupp doble gatillo
is that a stevens marksman on the front of the table?
It's a Stevens Favorite in .25 rimfire. Super nice rifle to shoot.
👍👍
Senapan sempurna meskipun berusia tua👍👌
Hi Ayesha, Saya setuju - mereka hebat. Semua yang terbaik untuk Anda di Indonesia.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns thanks untuk persembahanya saya sangat terhibur
If you cant find them, make them.
That is the right way to think for sure!