Life's a grift. I'm afraid solipsism is real and life is the illusion to spare us eternal madness so instead we have this confused mess. And if we all become antinatalists we end up in the eternal darkness alone. That is my fear...
It's messed up how if you bring it up, many people will say something along the lines of, none of us asked to be born. Like ok, so because other people were given this imposition, that means the sensical thing is to.... place the imposition on more nonconsenting individuals?
Not true You did literally agree to be here but you do not remember this I would not call "life" a "gift" as it is talked about in this video It is however a contract for whatever reason you agreed upon before arriving for the reasons you chose When you understand this you will realize you have the power to literally 100% control your own reality All of it Believe it or not This is truth but deep inside you already know this and haven't realized it yet⭐️
My problem is, once this alleged "gift" was dumped on me, everyone tells me I'm ungrateful for not wanting it, even though the cost of receiving it is a lifetime of wage slavery. The gas lighting coming from those natalist breeders is disgusting.
Coz its not about you. You are not the recipient, you ARE that gift. And ofcoz a "gift" is not supposed to discard itself. PS: ffs having kids is so selfish, the more I understand what is going on, the more I fxxking hate it
@@birdieculture-2 I've heard religious people say that same thing. It's like we're the property of some god to give and take as they please. No thanks, I hate it too.
@@ЕгорКазейyea because it’s so easy to override our basic instincts to survive and just off ourselves right? Also just because someone wishes to have never been born that doesn’t mean their suicidal or want to die.
@@ЕгорКазей didn't you watch the video? he has another whole video specifaclly explaining why suicide isn't just a simple and easy way to get aat from all this, if you can't see that by yourself you are bad person and people like you should definetly not have kids
@@ЕгорКазей learn what survival instinct and the fear of becoming a vegetable or in a worse off position from possible failure of suicide. You should think before you speak. Prevention is better than cure
It makes me laugh when people say that life is a gift. According to the World Health Organization, roughly 700,000 people around the globe commit suicide every year. That amounts to 1 person every 40-45 seconds. I wish more people took that statistic into consideration before they proclaim life is a gift.
"Life is a gift" OFCOZ is all about the parents. The PARENTS want a person, a kid as a "gift" so they can order him around, do as parents say etc. Life is not a gift to the kid, it is a gift to the parents. And therefore parents are entitled to discard the kids whenever they want to, spank them, punish them etc.
Life isn't a gift, and added to the reasons that you mention I think of so many people who have suffered various form of abuse, or simply being socially isolated or rejected by others. So many people suffer from mental conditions, but most keep it to themselves. People also generally pretend to be happier than they are, bc being unhappy is perceived as failure, and humans are often unkind towards those who fail, including themselves.
It has always fascinated me how people will use the phrase "Be grateful for the life you have," in response to somebody else having it worse, while being totally oblivious to the moral judgment implicit in the phrase itself. Do they not realize the antinatalist nature of such a statement?
Lawrence, thank YOU for not being afraid to speak up against the unhealthy optimism that poisons our common sense these days, but always speaking the truth, and doing your part to protect our unborn children from the horrors of existence. 💀Birth GUARANTEES death💀 💀Life GUARANTEES suffering💀 PLEASE DO NOT PROCREATE AND BRING CHILDREN INTO THIS WORLD OF PAIN, MISERY, AND DEATH.
I actually believed that life was a gift until at around 19 I worked in one of the oldest hospitals in the US, so old that the patient wards weren't even air conditioned in the late seventies. Part of my duties was working in the morgue which also served as the city morgue for Louisville ky. There I got to witness all horrors' imaginable, murder, sucide, shootings, car accidents , fires everything, that was enough truth presented to me to realize I had it completely backwards, that life was closer to a curse then a gift. And everything since has only proven my conclusion.
Agreed. To threaten us to live, to tithe to supplement the income of someone else. A Bible rewritten by humans, the actual image of Jesus revised to look like a leader rather than what Jesus actually looked like. To be a slave
I HATE receiving gifts. I’m a ‘difficult’ person (low fat whole food plant based vegan & minimalist), not a rude one, but getting stuff I don’t need or want? I ask people to donate to local animal sanctuaries that need all the help in the world. So life is a gift? Only if it helps those in need. Does life do that? No, it causes the pain, suffering, unfairness, violence and sadness.
I think someone can be grateful in a general sense for their life, and still recognize the selfishness and bad thinking in their parents' decision to force it on them.
Yes, Lawrence, brilliant! And also, as someone said somewhere in 2004: "You have inherited, as an heirloom, a sealed box. You cannot open it, and you are not certain what is in it. There are two possibilities. The box may contain valuable jewellery. For all you know, this is the more likely alternative. But you may be wrong. The box may also contain explosives, which are set to go off when it is opened. As far as you can figure, this chance is smaller, but it is realistic. You have a choice. You can keep the box to yourself, and never open it. Alternatively, you can give it to a complete stranger as a gift. If you give it away, the recipient cannot help but open it, although she does not know about the contents. If the box contains jewellery, she is lucky-she can keep it or sell it and buy things she would not otherwise have afforded. If it contains explosives, she is unlucky-she will be badly injured for life. Should you give the box to a complete stranger or not?"🙃
Thats what having a kid is. The kid is the stranger you give the box to. Your kid could have a goid life ( the juwelry) or a shjit life ( explosion). Font take that chance on somebody else s behalve. Dont have kids. Dont create the box situation all over again. It is bad enough that you got the box.
really hate when some says is grateful. a person is grateful when is receiving something extra which , the other person, is just giving to them without having to do it but, what are we getting extra in this case? or what are we getting? we are getting nothing. why should we feel grateful for getting the bare minimum to survive? . why should we be grateful for anything. they did not do us a favor by putting us in this damn place and we are not getting anything extra as some gesture of kindness from anyone. even worse, the BARE minimum is not even free. you need to become a slave to get it. all we have, all we get, we need to become SLAVES in order to get it, no one is giving anything away for free. nothing at all. so why should anyone be grateful for this crap? and why should anyone say is grateful for the bare minimum they were able to obtain?. to add insult to injury, there is absolutely no need to put one more human this place.
Ironically enough, "gift", means "poison" (i.e. "giftgas" is poison gas) in German, and in Swedish "gift" can mean either poison, toxin, or, get this: married, wedded, i.e. "to marry (someone) is "att gifta", etc. -- surely a coincidence! *cough*
The meaning "poison" in German and Swedish comes from the fact that people with power in medieval Europe used to give poison to each other one way or the other.
They called Life is a gift 🎁 because no one knows not even giver or receiver what is inside that gift box of life so the giver is very exited to know what is inside the gift box so he gives that life gift box to someone who doesn't exist to see what is inside the gift box of life. Life is gift box with full of uncertainty as no one knows what is going to happen to the person who is recieving that gift so some people get lots of suffering while others may get lots of pleasure thus it's all depends on luck. But every receiver of life gift box dies in the end
you have no will or choice in the matter. You’re forcibly thrust into something called Life and expected to enjoy it. can we really call that a gift?. it is like the question, to be or not to be, a question no one has ever asked before and no one will since there is nothing voluntary about coming into existence.
@@shlockofgod if you want you might think it that way but, the thing is that no one exist, anywhere, anxiously waiting to come to this place. if you do not procreate, you affect no one. absolutely no one at all in any way.
why would people put a person in a place where you constantly need to be crossing your fingers to not lose your job or get into an accident or any of all the bad things that can happen to you. a place where you need to constantly be begging to your imaginary all powerful friend to protect you from all the misfortune that can fall on you because, you know, this is such a wonderful paradise that you need an all powerful friend to protect you from harm. a place where you are supposed to say you are blessed because you won the cosmic lottery and are not suffering from some serious illness or pain, or you were not born in a shit hole and are not eating garbage, or you do not need to work as a child in order to have some crumbles to eat. but you need to be grateful for this. you must be grateful for this? how does that make sense and why would you subject another person, a person you say you love, to this place?. and what about those that were not blessed? what about them? F them? tough luck? that is life? how do you justify that they must bear all kind of pains and suffering but, who cares right? you were blessed and that is all that matters. why the stupid god blesses some but not others? and why are religious and non religious people ok with others not being blessed?
In some parts ot the world parents expect their child to take care of them by sending money when you get a job. Essentially the gift is making you work for their wellbeing.
I love the way you compose yourself so calmly on such a disastrous topic. I wish I had the composure like you to express this ideology which makes the most perfect sense. I'm an antinatalist unconditionally. Whether my life would've been a better experience, or I was wealthy and had the best values of a human being (beauty, wealth, intelligence, socioeconomic advantage), I would still stand for antinatlism merely because of the "immoral risk" parents take - by taking the gamble of procreating children into the dangers and sufferings of this life which affect the vast majority. Even those who procreate that are wealthy are still at great risk of abusing their children by their imposed will on a sentient being. Rich parents children still fall susceptible to bullying, drug abuse, suicide, poor academic results, unemployment, poverty, disease, neglect, isolation, crime etc , though these are rarer cases as opposed to those less fortunate. Life is not a gift, because with a gift - nothing is expected in return. It's considered a good will gesture without no strings attached. Hyperthetically if life were a gift 🎁, one should be provided for all their needs , deprivations, wants and desires without the need to work or anything irrespective of the age they grow up to be. But the opposition will continue to virtue signal those who adhere to this ideology that then should "take responsibility" of their lives they didn't consent to. They were just thrown into the dungeon to pick up their parents peices. We can go into all the rebuttals about "crying over spilt milk - deal with it", however there's two sides to the coin - and parents never want to be accountable toward the question "why did you give birth to me? What was the purpose? There's no answer... The incentives of life are too dyer to even respond. The cons outweigh the pro's. They just selfishly knocked up kids for some broody desire, which is mostly in female nature not the men. So the women are mostly accountable for actually breeding the children out of an obsessive nature, while men would rather abort usually. Why can't people consider their sexual desires and manage them? There's contraception now days, and sex isn't that great that people need to be selfish for such a huge consequence. Even the financial costs, and inconvenience of managing children are burdensome. If I had consent then I would have refused to be born. A child actually owes a parent nothing. A child has no obligation to respect or provide for their parents otherwise it was just a selfish investment. In fact the parents owe the children everything. But don't let me get into why I think people that come from poverty that procreate are the most stupid, selfish, irrational people on the planet. Take care. Good video. I'd love to talk to you on my main channel and Collab.
The gifting concept only works if the recipient truly wants that gift, which is impossible in the example of procreation. Geez, I can't count how many times I got unwanted gifts. Life itself being the worst of them all. Nobody ever asked me what I wanted before they gave me a gift. And nope, I don't want any gifts. I just want CASH 😄😄😄
I like this and the way you explained it. It makes more sense now. I had a "Friend" tell me life was a gift once... People are dumb, I swear to gosh...
Thanks for this thoughtful breakdown, really appreciate some of the distinctions you've made here. Had to pause for the unexpected giggle fit that the concept of leaving a python in someone's house incited (:
You only give a gift to someone who exists. A child is only a gift (not always) for those who make it. The child is nothing more than a slave. Procreation is the mother of all crimes, so how can it be a (pre-)gift for the person on whom it is perpetrated? 8- Life is a journey on an unknown, dangerous and warlike planet. Since the gift is a journey, will it be completely safe, and will I have all possible comforts, food, accommodation, transport, constant and complete well-being, and will it be really interesting for me, and above all, since there is no return, will it be very long under these conditions? _
I even ignore such a comment, because it's just made by AI/NPC it has no value at all and we shouldn't even acknowlegde such a creature that said something like that. Most people are stuck within their own instincts, Anti-Natalism will only be understand by the minority and will never spread like anykind of populaire religion, most people don't have kids these days, because of the costs, so child free people are on the rise and maybe Anti-Natalism too, and that's good, but people in generally choose what's in their own best self-interest and that's being child-free, I just noticed that a lot, because if you talk more deeply about Anti-Natalism with child-free people they won't agree with you for 100%, but they know were you coming from, at least more than people who want to have kids and maybe even get them, Anti-Natalist should understand that most people use cognitive dissonance, have Stockholm Sydrome because of their parents, use self-deception & lies and some even have symptoms of anosognosia, most people can't understand or handle Anti-Natalism, because it makes them depressed, people in general also have an ego, so they will act out on you by saying: Oh yeah? Bet I will be the best parent ever? Comments like that you can maybe exspect or they act on an emotionally, mentally or even physically violent way towards you, if you tell them, that having kids isn't good.
if i didn't have family or close friends i would have pretty much nothing to stop me from killing myself if i really was feeling like it wich i have in the past, so basically i am trapped in this whole societal structure that i never wanted to be a part of
I just saw the etymology of gift. It's just something that's given. Makes sense. To gift something is just to give something. We added the connotation later that getting something is good. So stating 'life is a gift' ie. life is given, is merely stating the obvious.
No, it isn't stating the obvious. Some people don't like life, but yet, "life is a gift" is a BS excuse that gets shoved down their throats. It's gaslighting.
@@Anubis424242 You've mistaken my meaning. I'm saying that to give life is the same as to gift life (equivalency). Also, the connotation that a gift is good is not part of its etymology. Try not to jump to conclusions on what I say.
While many consider life a gift, it's crucial to evaluate this assertion with logic and critical thinking. The core of antinatalism argues against the assumption that life is inherently good for everyone. First, consent is a fundamental principle in ethics. No one can consent to being born, which inherently makes the act of bringing someone into existence ethically questionable. Secondly, the presence of suffering in life is inevitable, ranging from minor inconveniences to severe trauma and illness. If we accept the premise that causing unnecessary suffering is wrong, then bringing someone into a world where suffering is guaranteed seems contradictory to this ethical stance. Furthermore, the "life is a gift" argument often overlooks the subjective nature of life experiences. What is considered a gift for one might be a burden for another, depending on their life circumstances and the suffering they endure. By reframing our perspective, we can see that not imposing life can also be seen as an act of sparing potential beings from the inherent harms of existence. Thus, while the sentiment that life is a gift may come from a place of appreciation, it does not universally apply as a rational justification for procreation, especially when considered under the lens of ethical consent and the inevitability of suffering.
@@4r1777But not everyone agrees with anything period. People don't agree if the earth is a globe or not, if women should vote or climate change existing etc
On an individual level we can do so much for so many by not procreating. In several generations we could potentially prevent the existence of 1000s of descendants. If 2 people have 3 children and those 3 children each have 3 children... by the 10th generation each of the 13,122 great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren has 3 children, would result in 39,366 people. So by spreading the message we could be sparing many potential lives.
@@ЕгорКазей when i ment curse i was talking about the imposition of life which i believe is unethical but there is a difference between starting a life and continuing a life i believe there are cases where life is so bad that not continuing it is logical but this is not the case for me
Organic life as we know it is a high-stakes scenario where "novelty" occurs from out of this mysterious unknowable(?) maelstrom that some call the Kundalini, from which may be derived intensive learning (& maybe a fine thrill or two along the way). It's not hard for me to imagine a "cosmic queue" of minds eagerly awaiting their shot at this plane of existence, warts and all. And I'm not even consciously trying to transmute gratitude, it all just fascinates me. I was expecting your statement to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek but the fact that you assert it with a straight face might be even more hilarious to me. Even if I disagree I have a soft spot for this sort of brazen neurodivergent thinking. Well done lol
@@Thrillin_Chillin_Drillin idk ik it’s synonymous but redpill copers assume there’s personal characteristics to an alpha, but really the proper term would be chad as it’s purely genetic
Not so fast, lets de bunk the de bunk because Life is a gift at [G] as the time of "was" where eternal life is at the tree of LIFE in curved light outside of the O pen where stars are R's when O god is the image of god made in gods image must be light curved now open at G. G If T G IF you cross [T] to stay where Magic as "AM G I C back where we came from, up ahead, but you do not want to go back there if you are saved inside the G because those return again to another IS..in the past. Eternal Life at the tree of LIFE.. IS A GIFT.. because even those evil, or those good and evil will return as a second coming of faith [ISIS and ISIL] and those become good the next time of six from being evil the first time of six [Moses was the G re at who-re now] "We have the power to fulfill" means do good and evil one time {FUL] good and evil F U wed as L returns again another time[s] as F I LL adds the second L as good and good wed that should be done now or that happens anyway next but as a slave. So eternal Life is a gift because God made a way for sinners to make it there. IF they have no evil they cross to G to stay, but a pale horse [good and evil mixed] goes inside G corded in lower form [belly of whale] and then return to a new earth at IS again as good and find god next time of six so all are saved, but half at D [is two come] inside the De will come back to G inside to return again while love has no evil side and is outside the O Pen. [earth at relative size to space] Jeremiah 29:10 are those who return as a second coming of faith will now believe in god laws this time {Jesus returns]. Give and receive is false and was made to hide what is passed between, because receive hides deceive as the true pair while Give has Thanks to show what was shared.
@@oreocarlton3343 You confuse the image of a Sisyphean task with that of a Herculean task. A Herculean task is hard, but ultimately worthwhile - the reward is apotheosis. Hercules, for example, held up the sky to prevent it from crashing down on Earth and destroying it. That is a responsibility, and not living up to it would result in disaster. A Sisyphean task, meanwhile, is by definition pointless, because it’s about doing the same thing over and over again. Then again, that’s kind of what procreation is.
You're not _forced_ to come into existence anymore than you might have been _forced_ to remain non-existent, had you not been born. Coercion necessarily requires the person being acted upon is withholding consent , NOT just that they are technically unable to give explicit consent. You don't neglect changing a baby's nappy because it didn't give you consent. You don't sue your parents because they _forced_ you to brush your teeth when you were a kid. There's is the reasonable expectation of consent in many cases.
Comparing brushing a child's teeth with having a baby when you know you're going to be a horrible parent is not comparable. If you don't brush your theeth there are direct negative consequences such as bacteria. There are not direct negative consequences in not having a child.
@@j.d.s.8132 _Having a baby when you know you're going to be a horrible parent_ is a specific scenario. AN is refer to all procreation. So that's a red herring. The direct negative consequences of not having the potential child is that they never have their entire life or legacy. I mean, you can get your teeth replaced but aborting your existence takes everything. The many things parents force you to do are to avoid negative consequences, but many are not. Many are to create positives or are neutral. And many of those involve not being able to get the child's consent or deliberately violating the child's consent in the moment. That disproves the claim that explicit consent is a moral prerequisite. All consent is necessarily in the hands of guardians until such time as the child can exercise it themselves.
@@shlockofgod None of use chose the circumstances of our conception and birth. There is no sneak-preview, no opportunity to weigh the pros and cons of existence before we are thrust unwillingly into this world. Therefore, _all_ children are the product of their parents' short-sighted selfishness. There are *no* altruistic reasons to have children.
I have a different view, you think existence of an individual who is born has no say in choosing their life. I accept , and i am grateful , to be alive . The phrase to happy be thankful , i am happy for the opportunity to be alive , you see.
Is it guaranteed that you will always be grateful to be alive and is it guaranteed that everyone that was forced into existence will be grateful to be alive?
Well i think your confused there is a difference between never existing in the first place and continuing to exist your comment on i am grateful to be alive points to this confusion it would be nice if you watched lawrences video (most people enjoy thier lives Isn't a reason for creating new people) will give you more insight
@@AnonymousWon-uu5ynok , I'll expand, first I do not think I was forced into existence, as you say. Reason, I see life as a great opportunity to learn from life on earth, essentially we are all souls evolving , we live in a meaning full world , working though cycles , karma , incarnating to contribute to a vast cosmos. Of course , in this idea , nothing is forced , we have many life times to add our gifts, ext ext. I wonder if there could be an anti natal view, with the many levels / planes of existence beyond earth life.
@@kodak-5677no confusion with me , to me there is no forcing into existence, eg , all is karma , opportunity, incarnation on earth to grow and contribute to the evolve cosmos , humans are not separate from nature we are co creators , so I'm not confused at all
It's internally incoherent to speak of coercing someone to start existing. It's meaningless to speak of subjecting a non-existent person to any form of coercion because ... well, they don't exist.
The person doesn't have to be here for us to consider the potential for future imposition. Eg. If someone carries a gene known to cause severe illness, procreation creates a risk of inflicting that suffering on a future person. While that person doesn't exist yet, the decision to have a child carries the potential consequence of creating someone who will then have to face significant suffering.
@@antinatalizm The operative word there is 'future', though. That's a slightly different kettle of squid from the assumption that it's somehow meaningful to speak of someone who does not yet exist being 'coerced to exist' at the point at which they're born or earlier.
These semantics games are for debaters, detached from pragmatic reality. The moment someone starts existing, their existence becomes an imposition in hindsight, because now, they are a someone.
@@cosmicprison9819 But for it to be an imposition on someone, there has to be someone being imposed _upon,_ which, by definition, there isn't to begin with. Also, if you'll forgive me, it's a bit much to be lectured on pragmatic reality by someone who thinks we have a moral obligation to commit suicide as a species.
@@davidparry5310 Antinatalism doesn’t require extinction to start being effective - lower birth rates already mean fewer people will be born into suffering. So that’s pragmatic antinatalism for you. Meanwhile, your semantics games are about milliseconds: The moment someone starts existing, there is a someone, and this someone now has to deal with the imposition. You’re trying to act as if the fact that one millisecond before this being began to exist, there was no “somebody” yet, were some kind of “gotcha!” argument that somehow rendered the imposition void. It’s the same flawed logic as Philosophy Tube’s argument that “potential people don’t exist yet, and therefore don’t have interests or rights which could be violated.” Then watch both conservatives and climate activists use the interests of their future children to justify their respective policies.
Eh i don't take any antinatalist seriously unless they have stayed true to their belief and done the deed to themselves. Else they are just yapping to have an edgy viewpoint.
It's Not an "edgy viewpoint." You clearly have not lived long enough or have yet to experience anything really bad. My dad had prostate cancer and had a slow and painful death. The morphine seemed to only help him so much. I, myself, have a rare disorder that put me in special ed for several years. I can read and write but I still process info differently so it makes life much harder. I'm 43 but never had the bells to "opt out." I've also had to deal with a handful of toxic people. I wont get into to it because it's a long story and I've mentioned stuff on Mr Antons account in the past and dont want to be annoying. I'll just leave it there. My point is, we never know what our kids will experience in life. It's a gamble bringing new people here. I have neighbors who own their own home and had normal jobs (they're retired now) but both their biological children were born with disabilities. One of them is severely mentally disabled and is in a wheel chair and the other is mildly to moderately mentally disabled who was a special ed student and they both live w/ their parents still.
@@itsjustme8554 Assuming other people don't agree with you only because they have not has a tough a life as you is pathetic. You don't know my life. Also you are conflating eutanasia with antinatalisim.
@@itsjustme8554 Assuming the only reason people dont agree with you is because their life has not been as hard as yours is self pittying garbage. You dont know my life. Also dont conflate antinatalisim and euthanasia.
@@WildminecraftwolfEhm… didn’t you just introduce the conflation between antinatalism and euthanasia yourself? Or what else should I assume you mean by “doing the deed to themselves”? 🤔
Those who blame on taxes and rent, go live in the jungle. C'mon guys, is better having life than never existed, if u don't want don't call it a gift but we all gotta be gratefull
No one needs retirement before coming into existence so creating a child for the purpose of that child’s having a satisfying retirement is absurd. It's literally creating a wage slave to be exploited by the system. "World is as bad as a place as the worst life experienced, and as unjust as the disparity between the best and the worst lives experienced." - Tufan Kıymaz
@@antinatalizm buddy, you and I have really lucky lifes as look, we can spend our time here. I don't understand what system r u talking, but again, yall free to live in the jungle so u r not a "wage slave" anymore. Also, I can't understand what r u looking for with that quote, I find it pessimistic and dogmatic. You proabably will hate what im gonna say, but I challenge you to read the gospel, life has A LOT of value
@@phibikThe fact that the only alternative of being a wage slave is to go "live in the jungle" says a lot about what life really is. BTW we "pessimistic" ppl are more than happy to let you "optimistic" ppl enjoy life as long as you let us die peaceful and painless death whenever we want to.Assisted suicide should be acceptable and available for all adult citizens.
We are human beings and part of being a human is that we procreate. It’s part of nature, so I understand if some people don’t think life is a gift, but that doesn’t mean life is meaningless. It’s boring to hear a person that is able bodied complain for his or her existence, these people are so immature.
Yeah we are slaves to the DNA molecule our only function is to consume and replicate(reproduce) and yeah life is meaningless and of course am going to complain all i want, infact everyone should have the right to die peaceful and painless assisted suicide should be a thing.
"Part of being human is that we procreate; it's a part of nature." Your comment reduces all of us to the lowest common denominator, no better than rats and cockroaches, creatures that just mindlessly breed on instinct, not able to consider the consequences of their actions. We humans are different. We can choose whether we breed or not. We can, to an extent, imagine what the future holds, and determine whether or not a future world would be a good one for our children.
@@txlyons2937 I did not say that humans only purpose is to procreate, I said part of being human which means it is an aspect of human nature. Even an ant has a purpose. As humans we are able to reason and use our intellect and experience to survive in this world, the world has always been in chaos and still people are able to bring forth new generations. We don’t know the future but some people get scared of the unknown. We are not even a nano second in the timeline of the universe, so why live in panic.
Your life is a miracle, a cosmic anomaly that exist despite the universe is infinitely hostile and dangerous. Everything is trying to destroy life. You are free, you are meaningful, you are a miracle. You just need to realize it.
@@txlyons2937 miracle does not mean gift, I did not say you asked for it, nor did I say you have a moral imperative to have children. I understand that you are hurt and angry but you need to take a moment to understand what is being said.
@@antinatalizmno, why would I say that to a child with cancer? I would be saying it to people who think their lives suck and resentfully wish they had never been born , and so they come to the conclusion that nobody should be born too, just because they’re not doing so well in life.
Is life a gift? 🎁
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Life is a gift?? 😆 🤣 😂
Science shows that life is a burden and a curse! Life is evil!
Life's a grift. I'm afraid solipsism is real and life is the illusion to spare us eternal madness so instead we have this confused mess. And if we all become antinatalists we end up in the eternal darkness alone. That is my fear...
Yes ,
Yes ,
How is life a gift if we have to pay for everything here? Nobody pays for a gift.
Its like someone says they gifted you a house or a car but only payed the 20 percent down payment and now you have to work the rest of it off
Nice.😂
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exactly
🎯
Life is not a *gift.* Gifts can be declined, or returned. Life is an imposition that no one ever asked for.
It's messed up how if you bring it up, many people will say something along the lines of, none of us asked to be born. Like ok, so because other people were given this imposition, that means the sensical thing is to.... place the imposition on more nonconsenting individuals?
Facts.
@@quertiqr right...makes absolutely no sense.
Not true You did literally agree to be here but you do not remember this I would not call "life" a "gift" as it is talked about in this video It is however a contract for whatever reason you agreed upon before arriving for the reasons you chose When you understand this you will realize you have the power to literally 100% control your own reality All of it Believe it or not This is truth but deep inside you already know this and haven't realized it yet⭐️
@@saramckee6611 you believe in NDE?
My problem is, once this alleged "gift" was dumped on me, everyone tells me I'm ungrateful for not wanting it, even though the cost of receiving it is a lifetime of wage slavery. The gas lighting coming from those natalist breeders is disgusting.
Coz its not about you. You are not the recipient, you ARE that gift. And ofcoz a "gift" is not supposed to discard itself.
PS: ffs having kids is so selfish, the more I understand what is going on, the more I fxxking hate it
@@birdieculture-2 I've heard religious people say that same thing. It's like we're the property of some god to give and take as they please. No thanks, I hate it too.
Pathetic
Agreed.
Capitalism is disgusting
"Life is a gift!"
A death sentence is a really weird thing to presume to gift someone.
Say it louder 🙌🏽 for the Breeders!
Boom!
@KYLE1654-v7m but a pretty girl will call you an incel
Life is bullshit
Absolutely.
"Bullshit is a gift!"
In short
Not if you're a pretty girl
@@teaadvice4996 or alpha guy
If someone tells me that life is a gift, I counter with: "There are shitty gifts, and I think life is one of them."
You can get rid of it any second you wish.
Have you tried therapy?
@@ЕгорКазейyea because it’s so easy to override our basic instincts to survive and just off ourselves right? Also just because someone wishes to have never been born that doesn’t mean their suicidal or want to die.
@@ЕгорКазей didn't you watch the video? he has another whole video specifaclly explaining why suicide isn't just a simple and easy way to get aat from all this, if you can't see that by yourself you are bad person and people like you should definetly not have kids
"A gift that you cant give away is not a gift any longer but a burden. " Philip Nitschke
You can give your life away, nothing stops you from doing so.
@@ЕгорКазей learn what survival instinct and the fear of becoming a vegetable or in a worse off position from possible failure of suicide. You should think before you speak. Prevention is better than cure
@user-rb4fu5bv7e And it’s people like you that I have to deal with daily is the reason I hate existing
It makes me laugh when people say that life is a gift. According to the World Health Organization, roughly 700,000 people around the globe commit suicide every year. That amounts to 1 person every 40-45 seconds. I wish more people took that statistic into consideration before they proclaim life is a gift.
Great comment, that doesn't even take into account all the failed suicide attempts either which further proves your point
@@ami4511 You are absolutely correct. That is a great point.
And there's even more
I think it’s closer to a million
That's not nearly enough.
"Life is a gift" OFCOZ is all about the parents. The PARENTS want a person, a kid as a "gift" so they can order him around, do as parents say etc. Life is not a gift to the kid, it is a gift to the parents. And therefore parents are entitled to discard the kids whenever they want to, spank them, punish them etc.
"Damn. This one's gay. Time to throw it out."
It's not a gift at all. More of a curse.
Existence is painful, suffering and dangerous.
It's short.
A 'gift' that's full of suffering and hardship. Such a stupid saying.
Life isn't a gift, and added to the reasons that you mention I think of so many people who have suffered various form of abuse, or simply being socially isolated or rejected by others.
So many people suffer from mental conditions, but most keep it to themselves.
People also generally pretend to be happier than they are, bc being unhappy is perceived as failure, and humans are often unkind towards those who fail, including themselves.
Life is a turd wrapped up in a gift.
Its a true crock of shit.
It has always fascinated me how people will use the phrase "Be grateful for the life you have," in response to somebody else having it worse, while being totally oblivious to the moral judgment implicit in the phrase itself. Do they not realize the antinatalist nature of such a statement?
But people don't always use it to response to someone having it worse...
Life is the most EVIL "gift" that somebody can give.
Lawrence, thank YOU for not being afraid to speak up against the unhealthy optimism that poisons our common sense these days, but always speaking the truth, and doing your part to protect our unborn children from the horrors of existence.
💀Birth GUARANTEES death💀
💀Life GUARANTEES suffering💀
PLEASE DO NOT PROCREATE AND BRING CHILDREN INTO THIS WORLD OF PAIN, MISERY, AND DEATH.
I actually believed that life was a gift until at around 19 I worked in one of the oldest hospitals in the US, so old that the patient wards weren't even air conditioned in the late seventies. Part of my duties was working in the morgue which also served as the city morgue for Louisville ky. There I got to witness all horrors' imaginable, murder, sucide, shootings, car accidents , fires everything, that was enough truth presented to me to realize I had it completely backwards, that life was closer to a curse then a gift.
And everything since has only proven my conclusion.
A gift with a massive gift tax.
All those statements like "life is a gift" and crap like that, are rooted in religion where or believe in what I say or " you will go to hell" thing.
Agreed. To threaten us to live, to tithe to supplement the income of someone else. A Bible rewritten by humans, the actual image of Jesus revised to look like a leader rather than what Jesus actually looked like. To be a slave
I HATE receiving gifts. I’m a ‘difficult’ person (low fat whole food plant based vegan & minimalist), not a rude one, but getting stuff I don’t need or want? I ask people to donate to local animal sanctuaries that need all the help in the world. So life is a gift? Only if it helps those in need. Does life do that? No, it causes the pain, suffering, unfairness, violence and sadness.
I think someone can be grateful in a general sense for their life, and still recognize the selfishness and bad thinking in their parents' decision to force it on them.
Absolutely resonate.
it actually caters to the need and desires of the giver
I think death is a gift.
Yes, Lawrence, brilliant! And also, as someone said somewhere in 2004:
"You have inherited, as an heirloom, a sealed box. You cannot open it, and you are not certain what is in it. There are two possibilities. The box may contain valuable jewellery. For all you know, this is the more likely alternative. But you may be wrong. The box may also contain explosives, which are set to go off when it is opened. As far as you can figure, this chance is smaller, but it is realistic.
You have a choice. You can keep the box to yourself, and never open it. Alternatively, you can give it to a complete stranger as a gift. If you give it away, the recipient cannot help but open it, although she does not know about the contents. If the box contains jewellery, she is lucky-she can keep it or sell it and buy things she would not otherwise have afforded. If it contains explosives, she is unlucky-she will be badly injured for life.
Should you give the box to a complete stranger or not?"🙃
Thats what having a kid is. The kid is the stranger you give the box to.
Your kid could have a goid life ( the juwelry) or a shjit life
( explosion).
Font take that chance on somebody else s behalve.
Dont have kids.
Dont create the box situation all over again.
It is bad enough that you got the box.
Fun fact: in German "Gift" means "Poison". Thanks for your great content.
I don't consider life a gift, it's more like an consequence.
Life is an imposition. I agree with Mr. Anton. Great video.
how can life be a gift when we all die in the end pointless exsitence suffer grow old for no good reason it serves no purpose I'm antinatalist vegan
Thinking that way is a living hell, and what comes out of it is a worthy kin.
really hate when some says is grateful. a person is grateful when is receiving something extra which , the other person, is just giving to them without having to do it but, what are we getting extra in this case? or what are we getting? we are getting nothing. why should we feel grateful for getting the bare minimum to survive? . why should we be grateful for anything. they did not do us a favor by putting us in this damn place and we are not getting anything extra as some gesture of kindness from anyone. even worse, the BARE minimum is not even free. you need to become a slave to get it. all we have, all we get, we need to become SLAVES in order to get it, no one is giving anything away for free. nothing at all. so why should anyone be grateful for this crap? and why should anyone say is grateful for the bare minimum they were able to obtain?. to add insult to injury, there is absolutely no need to put one more human this place.
Ironically enough, "gift", means "poison" (i.e. "giftgas" is poison gas) in German, and in Swedish "gift" can mean either poison, toxin, or, get this: married, wedded, i.e. "to marry (someone) is "att gifta", etc. -- surely a coincidence! *cough*
The meaning "poison" in German and Swedish comes from the fact that people with power in medieval Europe used to give poison to each other one way or the other.
They called Life is a gift 🎁 because no one knows not even giver or receiver what is inside that gift box of life so the giver is very exited to know what is inside the gift box so he gives that life gift box to someone who doesn't exist to see what is inside the gift box of life. Life is gift box with full of uncertainty as no one knows what is going to happen to the person who is recieving that gift so some people get lots of suffering while others may get lots of pleasure thus it's all depends on luck. But every receiver of life gift box dies in the end
you have no will or choice in the matter. You’re forcibly thrust into something called Life and expected to enjoy it. can we really call that a gift?. it is like the question, to be or not to be, a question no one has ever asked before and no one will since there is nothing voluntary about coming into existence.
exactly!!
You can go back to nonexistence any moment you wish, you loose nothing by being born.
Do you think choosing to avoid procreation is a gift for those who will not come into existence as a result?
@@shlockofgod if you want you might think it that way but, the thing is that no one exist, anywhere, anxiously waiting to come to this place. if you do not procreate, you affect no one. absolutely no one at all in any way.
@shlockofgod it's neutral.
A gift and agony
Thanks Lawrence! You do important work.
Thank you! Appreciated you legend ❤️🔥
why would people put a person in a place where you constantly need to be crossing your fingers to not lose your job or get into an accident or any of all the bad things that can happen to you. a place where you need to constantly be begging to your imaginary all powerful friend to protect you from all the misfortune that can fall on you because, you know, this is such a wonderful paradise that you need an all powerful friend to protect you from harm. a place where you are supposed to say you are blessed because you won the cosmic lottery and are not suffering from some serious illness or pain, or you were not born in a shit hole and are not eating garbage, or you do not need to work as a child in order to have some crumbles to eat. but you need to be grateful for this. you must be grateful for this? how does that make sense and why would you subject another person, a person you say you love, to this place?. and what about those that were not blessed? what about them? F them? tough luck? that is life? how do you justify that they must bear all kind of pains and suffering but, who cares right? you were blessed and that is all that matters. why the stupid god blesses some but not others? and why are religious and non religious people ok with others not being blessed?
I feel like this too, omg
A girt that MOST ot us DON'T WANT
a gift is hardly a gift if its painfully ripped out of your hands almost immediately. life is the gift of a sadist
Oh, you're _so_ dramatic.
@@shlockofgod oh i am so that girlfriend. love a bit of drama me.
In some parts ot the world parents expect their child to take care of them by sending money when you get a job. Essentially the gift is making you work for their wellbeing.
I love the way you compose yourself so calmly on such a disastrous topic. I wish I had the composure like you to express this ideology which makes the most perfect sense. I'm an antinatalist unconditionally. Whether my life would've been a better experience, or I was wealthy and had the best values of a human being (beauty, wealth, intelligence, socioeconomic advantage), I would still stand for antinatlism merely because of the "immoral risk" parents take - by taking the gamble of procreating children into the dangers and sufferings of this life which affect the vast majority. Even those who procreate that are wealthy are still at great risk of abusing their children by their imposed will on a sentient being. Rich parents children still fall susceptible to bullying, drug abuse, suicide, poor academic results, unemployment, poverty, disease, neglect, isolation, crime etc , though these are rarer cases as opposed to those less fortunate.
Life is not a gift, because with a gift - nothing is expected in return.
It's considered a good will gesture without no strings attached.
Hyperthetically if life were a gift 🎁, one should be provided for all their needs , deprivations, wants and desires without the need to work or anything irrespective of the age they grow up to be. But the opposition will continue to virtue signal those who adhere to this ideology that then should "take responsibility" of their lives they didn't consent to. They were just thrown into the dungeon to pick up their parents peices.
We can go into all the rebuttals about "crying over spilt milk - deal with it", however there's two sides to the coin - and parents never want to be accountable toward the question "why did you give birth to me? What was the purpose? There's no answer... The incentives of life are too dyer to even respond. The cons outweigh the pro's.
They just selfishly knocked up kids for some broody desire, which is mostly in female nature not the men.
So the women are mostly accountable for actually breeding the children out of an obsessive nature, while men would rather abort usually. Why can't people consider their sexual desires and manage them? There's contraception now days, and sex isn't that great that people need to be selfish for such a huge consequence. Even the financial costs, and inconvenience of managing children are burdensome.
If I had consent then I would have refused to be born.
A child actually owes a parent nothing. A child has no obligation to respect or provide for their parents otherwise it was just a selfish investment. In fact the parents owe the children everything. But don't let me get into why I think people that come from poverty that procreate are the most stupid, selfish, irrational people on the planet.
Take care. Good video. I'd love to talk to you on my main channel and Collab.
The gifting concept only works if the recipient truly wants that gift, which is impossible in the example of procreation.
Geez, I can't count how many times I got unwanted gifts. Life itself being the worst of them all.
Nobody ever asked me what I wanted before they gave me a gift.
And nope, I don't want any gifts. I just want CASH 😄😄😄
I like this and the way you explained it. It makes more sense now. I had a "Friend" tell me life was a gift once... People are dumb, I swear to gosh...
I hate people
Thanks for this thoughtful breakdown, really appreciate some of the distinctions you've made here. Had to pause for the unexpected giggle fit that the concept of leaving a python in someone's house incited (:
What’s funny about it? It’s a gift! 😂
Life is a gift - people don’t want to see the price tag.
I’ve been given gifts that I didn’t want.
Life=Sin=Pain=Trouble=death
Can I trade it back in with the receipt and get a refund?
The best thing in the life is that only have experienced it, we can fully realize its miseries and wretchedness
The Trojan Horse was a gift, too, so… Timeo parentes et dona ferentes.
Another excellent video sir , gave me new insight into this "life is a gift" quote. 🐯
Glad you appreciate it!
Life is a gift when you are rich and mentally and physically healthy.
You only give a gift to someone who exists. A child is only a gift (not always) for those who make it. The child is nothing more than a slave. Procreation is the mother of all crimes, so how can it be a (pre-)gift for the person on whom it is perpetrated?
8- Life is a journey on an unknown, dangerous and warlike planet. Since the gift is a journey, will it be completely safe, and will I have all possible comforts, food, accommodation, transport, constant and complete well-being, and will it be really interesting for me, and above all, since there is no return, will it be very long under these conditions?
_
Very thorough and balanced discussion of this issue. I totally agree with you. Thanks!
I even ignore such a comment, because it's just made by AI/NPC it has no value at all and we shouldn't even acknowlegde such a creature that said something like that. Most people are stuck within their own instincts, Anti-Natalism will only be understand by the minority and will never spread like anykind of populaire religion, most people don't have kids these days, because of the costs, so child free people are on the rise and maybe Anti-Natalism too, and that's good, but people in generally choose what's in their own best self-interest and that's being child-free, I just noticed that a lot, because if you talk more deeply about Anti-Natalism with child-free people they won't agree with you for 100%, but they know were you coming from, at least more than people who want to have kids and maybe even get them, Anti-Natalist should understand that most people use cognitive dissonance, have Stockholm Sydrome because of their parents, use self-deception & lies and some even have symptoms of anosognosia, most people can't understand or handle Anti-Natalism, because it makes them depressed, people in general also have an ego, so they will act out on you by saying: Oh yeah? Bet I will be the best parent ever? Comments like that you can maybe exspect or they act on an emotionally, mentally or even physically violent way towards you, if you tell them, that having kids isn't good.
A girf of HELL without being buried and dead
Thanks so much to the link to David Benatar's Aeon article.
Parents are the meanest madafakas 😢😢😢
if i didn't have family or close friends i would have pretty much nothing to stop me from killing myself if i really was feeling like it wich i have in the past, so basically i am trapped in this whole societal structure that i never wanted to be a part of
I just saw the etymology of gift. It's just something that's given. Makes sense. To gift something is just to give something. We added the connotation later that getting something is good. So stating 'life is a gift' ie. life is given, is merely stating the obvious.
No, it isn't stating the obvious. Some people don't like life, but yet, "life is a gift" is a BS excuse that gets shoved down their throats. It's gaslighting.
@@Anubis424242 You've mistaken my meaning. I'm saying that to give life is the same as to gift life (equivalency).
Also, the connotation that a gift is good is not part of its etymology.
Try not to jump to conclusions on what I say.
@@antinatalope I'm sorry, I misunderstood. Probably would've been better if I hadn't commented in all honesty.
@@Anubis424242 No worries. I've done it myself, many a time. All good.
While many consider life a gift, it's crucial to evaluate this assertion with logic and critical thinking. The core of antinatalism argues against the assumption that life is inherently good for everyone. First, consent is a fundamental principle in ethics. No one can consent to being born, which inherently makes the act of bringing someone into existence ethically questionable. Secondly, the presence of suffering in life is inevitable, ranging from minor inconveniences to severe trauma and illness. If we accept the premise that causing unnecessary suffering is wrong, then bringing someone into a world where suffering is guaranteed seems contradictory to this ethical stance.
Furthermore, the "life is a gift" argument often overlooks the subjective nature of life experiences. What is considered a gift for one might be a burden for another, depending on their life circumstances and the suffering they endure. By reframing our perspective, we can see that not imposing life can also be seen as an act of sparing potential beings from the inherent harms of existence.
Thus, while the sentiment that life is a gift may come from a place of appreciation, it does not universally apply as a rational justification for procreation, especially when considered under the lens of ethical consent and the inevitability of suffering.
I gotta make a book out of this content. Thanks for the amazing insight
Pls make a video on the argument "antinatalism isn't practical, because people will never agree with it".
That's true though.
@@4r1777But not everyone agrees with anything period. People don't agree if the earth is a globe or not, if women should vote or climate change existing etc
@@m0nke13 I understand
On an individual level we can do so much for so many by not procreating. In several generations we could potentially prevent the existence of 1000s of descendants. If 2 people have 3 children and those 3 children each have 3 children... by the 10th generation each of the 13,122 great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren has 3 children, would result in 39,366 people. So by spreading the message we could be sparing many potential lives.
Humanity as a whole woudnt adopt the philosophy but many people will so its still practical
Honestly this universe is so cures and messed up
Not really more like a blight/course
Nothing stops you from getting rid of this curse.
@@ЕгорКазей when i ment curse i was talking about the imposition of life which i believe is unethical but there is a difference between starting a life and continuing a life i believe there are cases where life is so bad that not continuing it is logical but this is not the case for me
@@ЕгорКазейDo you have nembutal then🤨.Do you think commiting suicide is easy.
Life is suffering. I didnt ask to be here.
me too, but how do you cope with it?
german gift
Life is a mistake.
Life is just random
10/10 👏
Lol where is the exchange counter i don't like this gift 😂
Why mention parents and not the so called creator god?
This video isn't a gift
Good stuff 🐥💚
Great stuff
8:40 i am curious, can you list what are those few reasons that are for the sake of the child?
Organic life as we know it is a high-stakes scenario where "novelty" occurs from out of this mysterious unknowable(?) maelstrom that some call the Kundalini, from which may be derived intensive learning (& maybe a fine thrill or two along the way). It's not hard for me to imagine a "cosmic queue" of minds eagerly awaiting their shot at this plane of existence, warts and all.
And I'm not even consciously trying to transmute gratitude, it all just fascinates me.
I was expecting your statement to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek but the fact that you assert it with a straight face might be even more hilarious to me. Even if I disagree I have a soft spot for this sort of brazen neurodivergent thinking. Well done lol
Life is a gift for alphas for sure
Indeed. More like alpha status is a gift, beta status is a burden/curse. Life itself is neither. Genes are an evil imposition
I call them Chad and Tyrone.
You mean chad? Alpha is a cringe term
@@MiggyBiggy Idk, does Chad have a contrast? Melvin?
@@Thrillin_Chillin_Drillin idk ik it’s synonymous but redpill copers assume there’s personal characteristics to an alpha, but really the proper term would be chad as it’s purely genetic
great video
Not so fast, lets de bunk the de bunk because Life is a gift at [G] as the time of "was" where eternal life is at the tree of LIFE in curved light outside of the O pen where stars are R's when O god is the image of god made in gods image must be light curved now open at G. G If T G IF you cross [T] to stay where Magic as "AM G I C back where we came from, up ahead, but you do not want to go back there if you are saved inside the G because those return again to another IS..in the past. Eternal Life at the tree of LIFE.. IS A GIFT.. because even those evil, or those good and evil will return as a second coming of faith [ISIS and ISIL] and those become good the next time of six from being evil the first time of six [Moses was the G re at who-re now] "We have the power to fulfill" means do good and evil one time {FUL] good and evil F U wed as L returns again another time[s] as F I LL adds the second L as good and good wed that should be done now or that happens anyway next but as a slave. So eternal Life is a gift because God made a way for sinners to make it there. IF they have no evil they cross to G to stay, but a pale horse [good and evil mixed] goes inside G corded in lower form [belly of whale] and then return to a new earth at IS again as good and find god next time of six so all are saved, but half at D [is two come] inside the De will come back to G inside to return again while love has no evil side and is outside the O Pen. [earth at relative size to space] Jeremiah 29:10 are those who return as a second coming of faith will now believe in god laws this time {Jesus returns]. Give and receive is false and was made to hide what is passed between, because receive hides deceive as the true pair while Give has Thanks to show what was shared.
Ill have one depresso please!
The bugman fears vitality
10:33 mere existence SHOULD satisfy you, you SHOULD apperciate your being in time, that doesnt mean you cant loose that legitimate ability
Dude just check out. Stop whining and get it over with.
Not a good habit to tell people on the internet to end themselves. Might want to clean up your act.
I’m thankful for the present 💝
You won't be saying that when you are at your death bed.
😂
I have a friend that tells me that life is a gift and I need to look at everything through positive eyes
the title in itself is the satire.
The gift that keeps on billing ✉️ 📬
Let me put it this way, why do you always imagine Sysiphus unhappy?
Because alluding to Camus without context doesn’t tell us what you’re trying to say.
@@cosmicprison9819 same as what Camus tried to say, I find mere existing a gift the same way you find mere existing a burden
@@oreocarlton3343 But the mere use of the Sisyphus metaphor demonstrates that Camus saw it as a burden. What else do you think the boulder stands for?
@@cosmicprison9819 you can use the word responsibility instead of a burden and have the same meaning, some see children as a burden, others...
@@oreocarlton3343 You confuse the image of a Sisyphean task with that of a Herculean task. A Herculean task is hard, but ultimately worthwhile - the reward is apotheosis. Hercules, for example, held up the sky to prevent it from crashing down on Earth and destroying it. That is a responsibility, and not living up to it would result in disaster. A Sisyphean task, meanwhile, is by definition pointless, because it’s about doing the same thing over and over again. Then again, that’s kind of what procreation is.
You're not _forced_ to come into existence anymore than you might have been _forced_ to remain non-existent, had you not been born. Coercion necessarily requires the person being acted upon is withholding consent , NOT just that they are technically unable to give explicit consent. You don't neglect changing a baby's nappy because it didn't give you consent. You don't sue your parents because they _forced_ you to brush your teeth when you were a kid. There's is the reasonable expectation of consent in many cases.
So you think you weren't forced to exist. Then you think that you could have chose to not exist?
Comparing brushing a child's teeth with having a baby when you know you're going to be a horrible parent is not comparable.
If you don't brush your theeth there are direct negative consequences such as bacteria.
There are not direct negative consequences in not having a child.
@@AnonymousWon-uu5yn I just made the argument against this.
@@j.d.s.8132 _Having a baby when you know you're going to be a horrible parent_ is a specific scenario. AN is refer to all procreation. So that's a red herring.
The direct negative consequences of not having the potential child is that they never have their entire life or legacy. I mean, you can get your teeth replaced but aborting your existence takes everything.
The many things parents force you to do are to avoid negative consequences, but many are not. Many are to create positives or are neutral. And many of those involve not being able to get the child's consent or deliberately violating the child's consent in the moment. That disproves the claim that explicit consent is a moral prerequisite. All consent is necessarily in the hands of guardians until such time as the child can exercise it themselves.
@@shlockofgod None of use chose the circumstances of our conception and birth. There is no sneak-preview, no opportunity to weigh the pros and cons of existence before we are thrust unwillingly into this world. Therefore, _all_ children are the product of their parents' short-sighted selfishness. There are *no* altruistic reasons to have children.
I have a different view, you think existence of an individual who is born has no say in choosing their life.
I accept , and i am grateful , to be alive .
The phrase to happy be thankful , i am happy for the opportunity to be alive , you see.
Is it guaranteed that you will always be grateful to be alive and is it guaranteed that everyone that was forced into existence will be grateful to be alive?
Well i think your confused there is a difference between never existing in the first place and continuing to exist your comment on i am grateful to be alive points to this confusion it would be nice if you watched lawrences video (most people enjoy thier lives Isn't a reason for creating new people) will give you more insight
@@AnonymousWon-uu5ynok , I'll expand, first I do not think I was forced into existence, as you say.
Reason, I see life as a great opportunity to learn from life on earth, essentially we are all souls evolving , we live in a meaning full world , working though cycles , karma , incarnating to contribute to a vast cosmos.
Of course , in this idea , nothing is forced , we have many life times to add our gifts, ext ext.
I wonder if there could be an anti natal view, with the many levels / planes of existence beyond earth life.
@@kodak-5677no confusion with me , to me there is no forcing into existence, eg , all is karma , opportunity, incarnation on earth to grow and contribute to the evolve cosmos , humans are not separate from nature we are co creators , so I'm not confused at all
@@DanielBarber-mo2en so you think that you were not forced to exist and so you think that you could have chosen to not exist?
It's internally incoherent to speak of coercing someone to start existing. It's meaningless to speak of subjecting a non-existent person to any form of coercion because ... well, they don't exist.
The person doesn't have to be here for us to consider the potential for future imposition. Eg. If someone carries a gene known to cause severe illness, procreation creates a risk of inflicting that suffering on a future person. While that person doesn't exist yet, the decision to have a child carries the potential consequence of creating someone who will then have to face significant suffering.
@@antinatalizm The operative word there is 'future', though. That's a slightly different kettle of squid from the assumption that it's somehow meaningful to speak of someone who does not yet exist being 'coerced to exist' at the point at which they're born or earlier.
These semantics games are for debaters, detached from pragmatic reality. The moment someone starts existing, their existence becomes an imposition in hindsight, because now, they are a someone.
@@cosmicprison9819 But for it to be an imposition on someone, there has to be someone being imposed _upon,_ which, by definition, there isn't to begin with. Also, if you'll forgive me, it's a bit much to be lectured on pragmatic reality by someone who thinks we have a moral obligation to commit suicide as a species.
@@davidparry5310 Antinatalism doesn’t require extinction to start being effective - lower birth rates already mean fewer people will be born into suffering. So that’s pragmatic antinatalism for you. Meanwhile, your semantics games are about milliseconds: The moment someone starts existing, there is a someone, and this someone now has to deal with the imposition. You’re trying to act as if the fact that one millisecond before this being began to exist, there was no “somebody” yet, were some kind of “gotcha!” argument that somehow rendered the imposition void.
It’s the same flawed logic as Philosophy Tube’s argument that “potential people don’t exist yet, and therefore don’t have interests or rights which could be violated.” Then watch both conservatives and climate activists use the interests of their future children to justify their respective policies.
Eh i don't take any antinatalist seriously unless they have stayed true to their belief and done the deed to themselves. Else they are just yapping to have an edgy viewpoint.
It's Not an "edgy viewpoint." You clearly have not lived long enough or have yet to experience anything really bad. My dad had prostate cancer and had a slow and painful death. The morphine seemed to only help him so much. I, myself, have a rare disorder that put me in special ed for several years. I can read and write but I still process info differently so it makes life much harder. I'm 43 but never had the bells to "opt out." I've also had to deal with a handful of toxic people. I wont get into to it because it's a long story and I've mentioned stuff on Mr Antons account in the past and dont want to be annoying.
I'll just leave it there. My point is, we never know what our kids will experience in life. It's a gamble bringing new people here. I have neighbors who own their own home and had normal jobs (they're retired now) but both their biological children were born with disabilities. One of them is severely mentally disabled and is in a wheel chair and the other is mildly to moderately mentally disabled who was a special ed student and they both live w/ their parents still.
@@itsjustme8554 Assuming other people don't agree with you only because they have not has a tough a life as you is pathetic. You don't know my life.
Also you are conflating eutanasia with antinatalisim.
@@itsjustme8554 Assuming the only reason people dont agree with you is because their life has not been as hard as yours is self pittying garbage. You dont know my life. Also dont conflate antinatalisim and euthanasia.
@@WildminecraftwolfEhm… didn’t you just introduce the conflation between antinatalism and euthanasia yourself? Or what else should I assume you mean by “doing the deed to themselves”? 🤔
@@Wildminecraftwolfyou're not very smart
Those who blame on taxes and rent, go live in the jungle.
C'mon guys, is better having life than never existed, if u don't want don't call it a gift but we all gotta be gratefull
No one needs retirement before coming into existence so creating a child for the purpose of that child’s having a satisfying retirement is absurd. It's literally creating a wage slave to be exploited by the system.
"World is as bad as a place as the worst life experienced, and as unjust as the disparity between the best and the worst lives experienced."
- Tufan Kıymaz
@@antinatalizm buddy, you and I have really lucky lifes as look, we can spend our time here.
I don't understand what system r u talking, but again, yall free to live in the jungle so u r not a "wage slave" anymore.
Also, I can't understand what r u looking for with that quote, I find it pessimistic and dogmatic.
You proabably will hate what im gonna say, but I challenge you to read the gospel, life has A LOT of value
@@phibikThe fact that the only alternative of being a wage slave is to go "live in the jungle" says a lot about what life really is.
BTW we "pessimistic" ppl are more than happy to let you "optimistic" ppl enjoy life as long as you let us die peaceful and painless death whenever we want to.Assisted suicide should be acceptable and available for all adult citizens.
We are human beings and part of being a human is that we procreate. It’s part of nature, so I understand if some people don’t think life is a gift, but that doesn’t mean life is meaningless. It’s boring to hear a person that is able bodied complain for his or her existence, these people are so immature.
Yeah we are slaves to the DNA molecule our only function is to consume and replicate(reproduce) and yeah life is meaningless and of course am going to complain all i want, infact everyone should have the right to die peaceful and painless assisted suicide should be a thing.
"Part of being human is that we procreate; it's a part of nature."
Your comment reduces all of us to the lowest common denominator, no better than rats and cockroaches, creatures that just mindlessly breed on instinct, not able to consider the consequences of their actions. We humans are different. We can choose whether we breed or not. We can, to an extent, imagine what the future holds, and determine whether or not a future world would be a good one for our children.
@@txlyons2937 I did not say that humans only purpose is to procreate, I said part of being human which means it is an aspect of human nature. Even an ant has a purpose. As humans we are able to reason and use our intellect and experience to survive in this world, the world has always been in chaos and still people are able to bring forth new generations. We don’t know the future but some people get scared of the unknown. We are not even a nano second in the timeline of the universe, so why live in panic.
Your life is a miracle, a cosmic anomaly that exist despite the universe is infinitely hostile and dangerous. Everything is trying to destroy life.
You are free, you are meaningful, you are a miracle. You just need to realize it.
Cool you're an anomaly. Doesn't make anything meaningful or free.
No, wrong. I never asked for this life, and I have no moral imperative to pass life forward to child who didn't ask for it.
@@txlyons2937 read what I said and not what you think I said and I'll come back
@@txlyons2937 miracle does not mean gift, I did not say you asked for it, nor did I say you have a moral imperative to have children. I understand that you are hurt and angry but you need to take a moment to understand what is being said.
@@kingdipshiz Is the life of a child who is dying of cancer a miracle?
nothings worse than seeing someone crying sour grapes!
I wonder if you could say that to a child dying of cancer.
@@antinatalizmno, why would I say that to a child with cancer? I would be saying it to people who think their lives suck and resentfully wish they had never been born , and so they come to the conclusion that nobody should be born too, just because they’re not doing so well in life.
@@antinatalizm You would deny that child even its short life. AN is literally WORSE than cancer.
@@Rustemfrendsk-js189 How?
@@shlockofgod totally agree, better to have lived and died than to never have lived at all, life is a gift
Honestly this universe is so cures and messed up