EV fires vs ICE Fires - Data Analysis reveals SHOCKING Truth.
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- EV fires vs ICE Fires - Data Analysis reveals SHOCKING Truth.
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It’s a breath of fresh air to hear real journalism from a RUclipsr. Thank you 🙏
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Not including the average age of ICEV and BEV fleets make this report disingenuous at best.
EV Firesafe in Australia is a great organisation who looks at EV fires particularly for Australian standpoint but also more globally getting the facts and not the fiction that The Sun or Daily Mail(Fail) or Murdoch press want us to believe.
They're also partly funded by the Australian Government Department of Defence, they want to know the facts about electric transport before they make major decisions on future military vehicles.
Thank you for your report. I'm actually an EV guy, but try to stay critical. The famous statistic about car fires makes me think, if it is true. 3500 hybrid cars per 100000 sales means that 3.5% of the cars burn per year or about 1 of 30. This does not sound reasonable to me.
I really still believe that the trend is clear. That a car, which uses flamable liquid and makes it explode, sounds really dangerous.
On the other hand, a battery with sophisticated management is most probably less prone to fire than the mobile phone we carry in our pocket without fear.
Yeah cos those thousands of electrical connections can't fail can they?
The Carinsuranceez post is of course about getting eyeballs, but what does "per 100k sales" mean? The site is no clearer. If it's fires in one year vs sales in one year, you're right, the hybrid number is absurd. A 1 in 3 chance in 10 years? If it's fires (one year? historically?) vs sales historically, then they meant per registrations. Beware web factoids driving an issue.
And he brushes off the severity of EV fires. A fire truck can probably put out a petro fire in minutes- smother, cool, clean up. EV fires have to expend their energy and harmful gases, even over days.
Bolt EV owner.
@oldbloke204 I really did not mean that electric cars never burn. I just try to be realistic, and for me, it seems just plausible that it is just much less probable. Yes, a connection can fail. This may result in a short circuit. This may result in a fire. But there is no flamable liquid, which may burn.
@@tommimakitalo3675 The whole argument is rather silly imo as they're comparing fires in vehicles that could be potentially many decades old against much new vehicles and fires of all causes are included so things like theft, arson and whatever else are in the numbers.
We've had some real clunkers over our car ownership years and never had an issue but there's no way I would be charging an EV overnight near our home.
It's the intensity of the fire, the difficulty in extinguishing it, the toxic waste, and the high risk of reignition that make the difference between EV & ICE....
Reasons not to fly or be an advocate for nuclear power either I guess. When they fail is generally catastrophic. Thinking about it doesn’t ICE continually spew toxic gases? Along with the pollution from oil in our waterways I think we need to give them up as well don’t you agree?
What are you saying? It's better to have fires that are easier to put out despite being orders of magnitude more likely to happen? Oh, hang on, I seem to recall the fire services could do little more than stand by and watch when ICE vehicles started the Liverpool, Stavanger and Luton car park fires. In all three cases the fire spread by burning fuel running across the concrete surface under neighbouring cars. Despite the absolute inferno at Stavanger the environmental report found no battery chemicals in the water run off from fire fighting, for the simple reason that despite 65 EVs being completely burned out, none of their traction batteries combusted.
@@garysmith5025 Yeah that one which no one could question the narrative??? and peoples/journlaists were not allowed to get information out and got blamed on ice cars but somehow something burned with soo much heat it melted through different levels of the car aprk sure it was petrol 🤣😆🤣😆🤣😆
@@garysmith5025 ice car fires are easy to extinguish. Ev battery fire is unstoppable
@@trev1978all that electricity pooling and running away is a real issue 🫣
Any ICE fire is left to burn as is an EV. Fire services won’t pour water on a liquid fire as the fuel runs away and spreads the fire.
#whataboutery
Ben.
The yerm you're looking for regarding pack cooling is "Heat Pump"
(Of which Tesla has the best in the industry... To this point)
London Fire Brigade data, zero Tesla fires, loads of BMW, Merc and Toyota ICE fires.
Great work keep it coming
The major cause of car fires is elecrically relayed ...
So lets make cars fully electrical
Why separate hybrids from ICEVs? For fire safety estimates, both carry tanks of a very combustible fluid. Both incinerate people alive. Has that EVER happened in an EV?
Then why separate any vehicles as they all have batteries.
This completely distorts statistics. What percentage of electric cars compared to petrol and what about the age of the vehicle!
I appreciate you talking about this because it's one of my bigger concerns with ev vehicles, among other things like range issues, charging limitations, charging duration, cold weather effects on battery capacity, resale value, repair costs, etc. Have you seen how violent battery fires are compared even to ice vehicle fires? They fire is extremely hot and difficult to put out. Also, it doesn't seem like much of a comfort to me that many ev fires happen when parked...because many cars are parked inside homes in garages.
And diesel particulate filters.
Oil cartel will not allow EV smooth drive to safety.
I suppose to be fair one might consider the efforts required to extinguish a gas fire vs a battery EV fire. It seems the NMC battery packs can be somewhat volitile and troublesome to put out. I have a Tesla model 3 dual motor long range with NMC battery. I have every confidence that my car does not represent any significant fire risk. But it seems the industry is heading toward LFP type chemistry in EV batteries with one of the positive aspects it's less likely to have thermal runaway. I was thinking of upgrading my model 3 to the refresh version (Highland) and go with the single motor for the LFP battery.
A few points.
Volatility.
One "advantage" often cited for gasoline over Batteries?
"Energy density"?
More energy in a smaller volume?
(Goes BOOM when you light it?)
.
So place an ignition source under an EV and a similar source under an ICE vehicle,
(Or, puncture a cell?)
Leave for .... 10 minutes(?) to approximate the time for emergency services to arrive.
.
Which car will be "fully combusted"?
.
The "difficult to extinguish" angle doesn't account for the rapid damage already caused by a fast burning ICE vehicle.
.
NMC vs LiFePo4.
NMC has higher energy density, so to some extent, the same comparison applies.
If compromised, it will release more energy, more quickly.
.
Worth searching for work by Jeff Dahn (Tesla Battery Guru) who stated several years ago that they identified a chemical in the wet process manufacturing system which could accelerate fire, and could be eliminated.... Since that was in Nickel based cells, they are now safer.
.
It's much more about BMS... and Tesla are VERY good at battery and temperature control systems.
surprise, surprise - a lesson in lying with statistics
what about oil/gas fires vs solar fires....Ha HA HA HA. Suntan
Not so funny. Plenty of solar fires started by the sun's rays being focused by broken glass etc.
Insurance companies would know better than anyone how many fires per 100,000 of any type of vehicle occurs. They have to pay a substantial claim every time it happens. A vehicle fire almost always totals the vehicle. They keep pretty good tabs on the payouts they make on vehicles, so they know how much to charge for premiums. On the average, EV's cost about 30% more to insure, because of collision repair costs, not because of fires.
You do know autoinsurance EZ is only a online broker that has no insurance figures an when asked where their stat numbers came from they went quite.You know a company that finds the cheapest insurance for you car
@@ruffnut743 you people are like a cult you refuse to accept the truth, people don’t trust EVs
I have work colleagues who tell me they don't park next to my Tesla as they don't want their car catching fire. I just reply thanks for thinking of my car 😊
You're better off not parking next to his ICE vehicle, as it's much more likely to catch fire and damage your EV, so he's doing you a favour.
when you burn in your car fire you won't be remembered or missed.
While I agree from the data and evidence that EVs catch fire a lot less than ICE vehicles BUT is this the same age range of vehicles, so as EVs are no older than around 15 years old in mass production, are any of the ICE fires from vehicles over this age as I would expect to be more likely due to wear and tear and bad maintainance?
The data is per capita.
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@EnriqueThiele i’m a big fan of electric vehicles and Tesla I even own shares but that’s just two vehicles out of many millions, I’m also talking about fires
@@ricco123tube what I’m saying is they shouldn’t include fires from ice vehicles outside the age range of electric vehicles as it’s an unfair comparison
@@markreed9853you could simply look at the ICE data alone. And then view it by age. If the older cars show a 20x more rate than the younger ICE cars, then your hypothesis is looking good.
Do you understand?
Familiarity with gasoline powered cars does not make them safe. Unfamiliarity with EVs does not make them dangerous.
I drive a Volkswagen ID.4 Pro (big battery).
Sorry, but that claim about petroleum powered vehicles is false. There are a number of devices in ALL automobile that can kill. A car on fire will also cause explosions, generally 5 or 6 of them from internal components. Air bags and tires explode, and sometimes fuel tanks. And... that claim about EVs is also false. They tend to catch fire due to hydrogen leaks.
If a petroleum vehicle catches fire (usually the result of component damage) it can be relatively easily extinguished. It will stay put out.
The fires in EVs are generally caused by the Hydrogen that leaks out during charging (which can occur on charging or on regenerative charging) can ignite. There is a nice video of the Rimac that Richard Hammond wrecked that caught fire and kept reigniting for 3 days until all the lithium was burned. Virtually all EVs have a "conditioning" system that should prevent all the cells from catching fire. It also has to heat them when they are cold, which is one reason range suffers with cooler temperatures.
Years ago I managed a fleet of 300 petroleum fueled machines. Only 1 ever caught fire that that was due to spilled fuel that soak the ground for nearly a year being ignited by sparks from train brakes.
Fire departments are aware now how dangerous EV fires are. They are also aware that they may reignite. Their reaction it to let them burn. As far as getting injured passengers out of a crushed EV safely, techniques such as cutting the top off the vehicle must take into account where the high voltage wiring is run and hope there is on continual hydrogen leak.
@@technocrat4613 What! Evs leak 'Hydrogen"? Please explain!
@@chrismaxny4066 Any vessel that contains hydrogen at any pressure may leak. Hydrogen goes through a lot of materials as if they weren't there. Helium has twice the molecule size and it leaks right through the walls of balloons (probably a good thing). Solid metals, joints, and the often impermeable to most elements solid materials may all leak Hydrogen. Hydrogen has about 37 times the explosive power of Nitro Glycerine. But, the saving grace of a Hydrogen fire in open air is that it rises so fast it seldom damages things. The General Motors corporation used to give a Science presentation in high schools. The hydrogen balloons they ignited made a beautiful orange flame, but due to the small quantity did not hurt the presenter. Hydrogen, as I said, was used in the very first automobile in 1859. It's lack of density and the need to electrolyse it caused a quick switch to Illumination (Coal) gas.
Imagine what would happen if an automobile full of gallons of Hydrogen were to be punctured in an accident. It would produce a flame like a flare (which can be seen in the video of a burning VW ID.3). That's preferable to be confined with a correct stoichiometric mix to explode.
@@chrismaxny4066 dudes on acid lol
They`re dangerous during power outages and even more dangerous to an electric bill and your bank account when tires need to be replaced constantly and eventually the battery in a few years. Insurance companies want nothing to do with them.
One of the big factors that doesnt seem to be addressed in this data is fire severity. I think the severity of EV fires is what leads to the increased attention on them.
A Swedish Agency in May 2023 released a report that showed EV cars catch fire 4 out of 100000 and ICE cars 80 out of 100000. That is also 20 times EV/ICE ratio. They also indicated that they have seen the gap grow. Time will tell but I assume that with experience battery power trains will continue to be safer offsetting some potential impact from aging. In any case, none of this surprise anyone, apart from the main stream media who loves to take individual cases and misrepresent fire risk.
Yes the ICE cars catch' fire... Over 90% electrical related " catching fire " .... So virtually all car fires are Electrical in Nature... So let's make cars fully Electrical... Then all car fires will be Electrical... Awesome in nature....
@@DroughtRouteyes, let’s make them all “electrical” and have 20x less fires in cars.
I have started playing ‘EV Bullsh%t Bingo’ with my family when we read any comments on social media about EV,s. The categories include fire danger, battery life, resale value, numbers of sales, towing and range. When I read a comment like “they all burn easily” I can shout “bullsh%t bingo!” And get a point. The first to 5 wins but you have to be reading the same article.
Regarding burning vehicles, I had retired from the emergency services by the time EV,s came along but I can tell you that the chemicals in the smoke of a burning ICE vehicle is incredibly toxic and includes Dichlorodifluromethane, toluene, benzine, propane and naphthalene. This doesn’t include the usual carbon soot, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide from the exhausts. From what I have read, the chemicals in car fires are not a lot different in EV,s and ICE vehicles until the EV battery gets going which it often doesn’t but in any event an ICE vehicle is much more likely to self ignite and it won’t matter to a passenger or driver what the car is once it does because the results from direct contact or smoke inhalation is likely the same from either vehicle.
. Essentially if you want to put the odds significantly in your favour of not being immolated in a car you buy a EV, if you don’t mind a significant increase in the odds buy an ICE vehicle, but if you really want to live on the edge, buy a hybrid.
Wait until the EV cars are older and EV cars are equal in number of the others. EV's fires are also next to impossible to extinguish.
Good job mate.
So are you comparing the same age of EV and ICE vehicles in service? A new EV catching fire vs a 15yr old ICE car that’s been poorly maintained or modified by several previous owners isn’t the same thing. Also fewer EV’s have been sold relative to the number of ICE vehicles on the road so I expect there to be more ICE fires reported. This doesn’t mean EV’s are statistically less likely to catch fire.
It's per capita.
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That's the point. They are old ice vehicles vs new and relatively new EVs
That's exactly why they state "per 100,000" or "percentage". In terms of absolute numbers, there aren't as many EV's on the road as combustion or even Hybrids, so they have to use a "per capita" measure, to keep it statistically accurate.
@@vincentrobinette1507then its a false fallacy. Need to compared by age of the car
220,000 gas car fires last year vs 53 EV car fires in the US in 2023
Vehicles fires on the roadways is not the central safety issue. It is that large number of vehicle recharging firesthat burn down homes, condos and townhouses.
Thank you for discussing this burning truth. It's especially disappointing when apartments or shopping centres ban EVs from parking as a result of the hysteria around EV fires.
You have looked selectively at your sources of data. In general there are fewer EV fires than ICE fires. Those ICE fires are mostly electrical system fires and unrelated to the ICE engine. If fuel auto ignition only is considered (EVs also have general electrical systems) then there are a greater number of fires due to EV fuel eg the batteries. It is all to easy to fit data to your own point of view. The real danger of EVs and it should be kept in perspective as they are both relatively rare (EV and ICE fires), is the more intense heat and chemically the gassing off during a fire is much more dangerous than almost any other type of fire. I would note that for both EVs and ICEs you are more likely to be knocked down by them than burned or suffocated.
Because of all the negative news about EV fires I started looking into non-EV vehicle fires. You can contact your local fire and rescue service in the UK for a Freedom of Information request (but check their website first, if someone has already asked the question, they make it available so they are not constantly answering the same question).
For example, a paper asked the EV vs ICE question around the UK. I was able to read the response for Gloucestershire on the Glosfire website. In the reporting period asked for of 12 months, there were several vehicle fires attended and non of them were EVs. This included ICE cars that caught fire while at home, which according to the anti EV crowd only happens to EVs.
Regardless of which side of the argument you sit on, this is such bollocks. No context in your post. How about looking at the number of cars, number of miles driven, age of cars, etc etc. and then normalising your figures.
Then also look at how risk assessments are managed. If you ain't sure I'll tell you. It's a combination of frequency vs severity.
This is a not a facetious question and I don't know what I think myself, (but I'll exaggerate to get a point across); Which is worse, one EV fire that burns for hours and at 2000 degrees or two 1000 degree ICE car fires that can be put out relatively easily?
@@gottliebdee263 People who have done the studies have factored in what is statistically significant. Because of the small numbers of EVs vs ICE cars absolute numbers can’t be used. Instead studies have used fires per number of cars in the ‘fleet’ or per number of miles (Tesla have that data for their cars). Also large fleet users such as leasing companies know how many fires they have per number of cars and per number of miles driven. So there is good data with good statistical correspondence.
In the UK there are around 1 million BEVs on the road and around 32 million ICE cars. So a ‘draw’ would be 32 ICE cars to 1 BEV. However, that still is not right as BEVS are relatively new with most of that million made within the last four years. It’s not reasonable to compare a new car with one that has been on the road for 20 years with associated wear and tear. So you would have to split the number up by year of production as well.
It’s still too early to know what will happen to a large fleet of cars that are 10 years old or more.
@@javelinXH992 link me to some of those studies please.
I’ve raised it because age is a significant factor. Old cables are likely to fail more than new cables for example.
@@gottliebdee263 RUclips does not like external links, but if you Google EV Fire Safe in Australia they are collating all they can. Their goal is not to be pro EV, but to provide First Responders with the info they need to stay safe when dealing with EVs.
They have the information you seek.
@@gottliebdee263 one of the fleet studies was an interview with a fleet organisation in the UK. It was on one of the Fully Charged Podcasts. I dont know which one, maybe someone knows.
1500 fire / 100 000 cars / year … It is almost impossible! Here in Québec province (2018), there was about 4,8 milions cars and light trucks On the road. Vehicle fire, 2375/year… 2375/ 4.8= 50 something is not working! 1529 x 4.8 / 365 = 20 car fire per day, for a population of 8 millions?
You should not overlook the age average of the types and the percentage of EV vs thermal vehicles….for instance all pickups, trucks and busses are thermal and Ev are all but a lot more recent in average…. So numbers don’t lies but statements about numbers can be misleading….: Most gasoline car fires are over 10yrs old with old flex fuel lines not replaced on time…real studies showed also that diesel and CNG are the safest vehicles and gasoline and EV are behind and only average, while liquid petroleum gas Butane Propane LPG are the worst…Also, the crash tests on Hydrogen Hyundai i35 H2 with the H2 COPV full, showed that incineration included was not even a car airbag factory option, and….I would NOT have driven one otherwise. Then the amount of lithium toxic gases generated by lithium battery fire is huge, the flame gas torches of EV battery pack leaks can be some fires torches nearly impossible to confine, specially with the impossibility to water or foam them without being electrocuted . Lithium fire like magnesium and sodium fires cannot be stopped and only end with the complete combustion and oxydation of a large area…this is a huge safety hazard for underground buildings etc..Only 5 miles away a postman 7000 US$ Kyburz tricycle with and only 3 yrs old battery tired by daily duty and fooled by the cheap BMS unable to adapt to increased battery impedance with ageing caused a predicable fire at 2 PM while charging, with 900.000$ of postal office damages 23 days of postal service disruption etc..luckily our mandatory ECA building fire insurance fees have not gone up, yet, but reserves accumulated many years are getting exhausted rapidly by all these new liability non senses
Unfortunately, the insurance reports leveraging liabilities amongst the insured damages elements are essentially irrelevant on root causes of fires..…, for instance if a house and a car are destroyed together, both building and car insurance pay w/o one single fire start responsibility determined……or on any of the car ferry recent fires , the costs of damages were paid by the boat insurance and all the others goods transported insurrance and not only the single coverage of the EV which was (and only estimated and for good reasons) THE root cause of the fire. This and building damages alone would explode any EV third liability premiums much higher and already higher than average for very good reasons.. and sadly, this prevents also more safety measures to be taken fast enough…for an industry leveraging growth on bonus, subsidies tax credits and insurance benefits paid by other vehicles and tax payers. in Europe, some city police suggested to only allow underground charging at night with smoke alarm with remote notice to 20 hrs surveillance teams with tv supervision and quick specialised intervention means…this is abnormal …
Finally if today, an average of SIX EV per day catch on fire in China.. it still may take centuries to get rid of the entire EV fleet…unless a lucky one catches on fire while stuck and parked close to each others with thousands of them at the saturated ports of exits and ports of entry..holly smoke…and lots of it…
Nowadays, if they will eventually travel (if a few idiots still buy them) they will all travel almost fully discharged… and there are good reason other than cost of electricity for not charging them or even discharging them slightly at the factory…then.. I’d like to move it move it! Ok we’ll push it..
Sorry but your quoted statistics are pointless bearing in mind the numbers of ICE vehicles compared with the number of EV's on the road.
Also the environmental damage caused by an ICE vehicle is miniscule compared with that from an EV.
It’s like EV users are deaf. One more time with meaning……it is not about the frequency of fire. It is indeed a low likelihood event. We all agree. It is about the consequence of the event.
EV fires are devastating. The fire fighting resources are multitudes above that required in an ice fire event. Not to mention the increased risk to surrounding assets.
But sure - keeping banging on about the frequency - make it sound like you are being persecuted by the evil fire departments with their legitimate warnings….wtf…give me strength! Serenity now. Serenity now.
Nobody says that EVs catch fire more often than ICE vehicles. What they do say is when an EV catches fire it's far more difficult to extinguish as compared to an ICE. That's a known fact because of the energy stored in the traction motor battery and gases that are released during the combustion process. A fire tanker filled with water and foam likely won't be enough to fully extinguish an EV fire.
I'll wait. Current battery technology will be obsolete in 5 years.
We're still happily driving our second car which is 20 years old and will still be with us in another 10years. It is a 'keeper'. I wonder what the lifespan of EVs will turn out to be.
I'd love an EV but too soon on the technology/pricing curve for me.
but more people work on ICE cars and can make mistakes and there's tons of older ICE vehicles than EV ones. EV's have only really been out since 2012 and mass produced in the past 8 years or less. How old are the vehicles in these fires. Seems like it's more newer EV's that are catching fire when they do.
Well the Fuel fires are a very small number, these "Gas" fires are:
1) mostly Elecrical Source ...
2) all EV fires are Electricsl Source....
3) most vehicle fires are Electrical Source
4) EV fires are Electrical Source...
Patterns seen her
You leave out the BEV fleet age is much lower than ICEV fleet age. ICEV tend to catch fire when they are very old and poorly maintained. BEV catch fire when they are new and in good state of repair. Not including these factors is disingenuous on your part at best.
Question: I read a lot about EV car insurance being so much more expensive (presumably because of the likelihood of fire), so is that true? and, if so, is that the real reason? Or are there other factors involved?
Thermal runaway burns like a fuse, from one cell to the next with far less impact than a massive explosion from petrol (gasoline) nor like concrete acting as a wick for diesel, which caused the structural collapse at Luton.
There have been arsonists who found a way to ignite EVs in Germany but I had a tragedy with a LPGas Hi Ace taxi which was torched
How do you expect to get views and likes and subs, when you don't give us our DRAMA??
Ev fires are usually caused by poor charging infrastructure or faulty batteries. But electric cars are far safer than ice cars. Electric cars do not leak oil or fumes, which can explode or catch fire.
Considering over 50% of UK car fires are started deliberately, I don;t think the statistics given were particularly meaningful, because EV's aren't around in significant enough numbers yet to be a major arson problem, although, the depreciation is a killer, so maybe some people would rather claim on the insurance anyway.
Another major cause of car fires (EV and ICE) is accidental, anything from dropping a cigarette, to poorly installed entertainment systems, to overfilled running fluids.
I'm sure you'll have noticed when you read the Auto InsuranceEZ report that it was based on 100k each of BEV, petrol and hybrid registered in the same period, i.e. they were all approximately the same age, so the stats are perfectly valid.
@@garysmith5025 @garysmith5025 number of cars, and miles covered by type of car, cannot be assumed to be irrelevant as simply as that.
@@chrisbarron5861 It was the SAME number of cars, the SAME age, of each type!!
@@garysmith5025 age is measured in time, but use is not.
Use is measured in distance.
Were they being used for the same number of miles each year ? If not, any comparison is pointless.
For example, my car is 8 years old, and my friend's car is also 8 years old. My car has been used for 150,000 miles, but my friends car has only been used for 50,000 miles. My car has been used 3vtimes more than theirs.
They are therefore not comparable, despite being the same number of cars, one, and the same age, 8 years.
@@chrisbarron5861 We have had conversations before, you ended up deleting your opening post because each time you talked yourself into an increasingly small corner. Over parallel samples of 100k vehicles any difference will be minimal, a few percent either way, the difference in occurrences of fires is one to two orders of magnitude.
I wish I had a dollar for every title I've seen, in the last year, that contained the word "SHOCK."
I am very much for EVs and in fact am looking to purchase in the near future. Here’s my issue, not that I think you aren’t being truthful, but to help viewers who want to dig deeper, could you post in the notes some of the links to the EPA data and others if possible? This will give the nay sayers no room for BSing viewers.
Keep up the great work. It is so important to educate on The many bits of FUDD out there.
Hyundai and Kia make crappy cars and fires and recalls are nothing new with them. Once there are more EVs as gas then the data will be different.
I’ve always thought this- that EV fires make a bigger spectacle because fire trucks haven’t found a way to quell them easily
That's probably because there isn't a way quell them easily.
I don't even recommend them trying. It's better to just move the burning car to a safe place, or, focus on preventing the spread of fire. It's better that the battery burn completely, than quelling it, and risking a future flare-up. When there's a battery fire, there's no hope of saving the car, so there's no sense in putting resources into trying.
Chevy Bolt fires made headlines for years, but the actual numbers show that 20 out of 246,000+ Bolts burned, and all of those from the early LG Chem batteries. You can look up those numbers. The later N2.2 and N2.2A LG Chem batteries have had no fires I've been able to find.
You fail to mention the agent the vehicles.ICE fires are most likely in older vehicles,with leaked with fuel lines. Never yet heard of an ICE catching fire on a delivery ship,dealers showroom or forecourt. Also,seems most EV fire will result in the destruction of the vehicle,not often the case in ICE fires.
Most EVangelists fail to understand that the main reason for more fires in ICE vehicles is their age. Wait until EVs are older, not that they will make to old age as they will be scrapped due to the extreme cost of replacement batteries or repairs in general. I'd rather take my chances with an ICE. EV fires are extremely dangerous and much hotter than ICE fires.
Not only will the EV fire destroy the vehicle, but it will likely destroy the buildings near it and every car parked near it. The recent Tesla fire in an airport carpark in the UK showed this clearly. I can't remember how many other cars were torched, but I think it was at least a dozen. No doubt the other cars will be added to the ICE vehicle fire statistics to prove how much safer EV's are.
You may never have heard of an ICE vehicle catching fire on a ship - but it has happened and been reported. Felicity Ace for one. And the Freemantle Highway, which had some EVs, was not started by an EV.
Keep the data on the screen longer than 0.5 seconds if you want anyone to believe you.
Were the gas cars set on fire while parked? Arson by ecoloons?
Let's not forget that the EVs on the road are on average 2 years old. Let's see the stats when the average is 8 or so years old.
Couple of things should be poinnted out. Data should be normalized against total number of ownership. While evs are less likely to catch fire you are also less likely(out of a random sample) to have someone who owns an ev. Also, in a crash, an ev is very likely to catch fire and very quickly. I see the argument on both sides here. I own an ev, but I feel people should be made aware of the potential downsides of these cars. Especially when it comes to safety. In a crash you must clear the area of an ev quickly.
The data is per 1000 vehicles on the roads. It's as fair as it can get.
It's not the number of fires it's the severity. Petrol fires are high risk, EV fires are extreme risks.
It's like a 90% chance of hitting your thumb with a hammer Vs 10% change of blowing yourself up. Which odds do you prefer?
Rubbish, most EV fires aren't cause by, or affect, the traction battery. EV Firesafe in Australia have very clearly stated, as repeated in this video, that there have only been 300 verified cases of traction battery fires globally, ever. There were 65 EVs in the Stavanger car park fire (plus several hundred ICE, one of which started the fire), every car was completely burnt out, but the EVs' traction batteries did not combust.
The vast majority of EV fires are less intense than ICE fire. because they don't include a liquid fuel, they're also at least 20 times less common. A traction battery fire is several orders of magnitude less likely again, and even then the dashboard will be lit up like a Christmas tree long before the battery starts to vent.
You assess risk however you like based on number plucked out of the air, I'll look at facts.
@@garysmith5025 that's just ridiculous. EV fires are far more intense and harder to put out. Western Australia are currently trialing robots to fight EV fires.
@@RoverIAC Why should an EV fire be more intense if it very rarely involves the traction battery?
@@garysmith5025 I have never heard of an EV fire that didn't involve the battery even if it doesn't start with the battery. Once that battery starts to burn it can burn underwater because it produces it's own oxygen.
@@RoverIAC Really? I mentioned one in my first reply, all the reports on the Stavanger fire are freely available in English, Norwegian and Swedish. In the vast majority of cases the traction battery doesn't catch fire, no reason why it should, the majority of "fuel" is in the vehicle interior above the battery and combustion tends to take heat upwards whilst drawing air from the sides and below. The battery case is aluminium so even if one part is getting heated it will spread the heat quickly and it takes a huge amount of energy to raise 300kg+ of battery to over 210c which is the minimum required for thermal runaway.
ICE fires pretty easy to put out. EV fires very difficult to put out.
There’s 41.4 million vehicles on the road in the uk today 14/09/24, only one million are EVs, probably the reason why more ICU go on fire is because there’s 40 million more ICUs on the road compared to EVs
I wonder how it would look if there were 40 million EVs on the road, I wonder how many would go on fire and probably set fire to anything next to it and it usually takes 8 hours to put out a EV fire compared to 10 minutes on a ICU
Are you suggesting for one minute that I would not have used Per Capita figures? I of course did, my figures are correct. I suggest you re-watch thew video. Far less EV's catch fire than cars with an engine.
@@TheChargeShow that’s because there more ICE on the road
Low frequency, terrifying consequences!
Hi, can you tell us a bit more about the 2100 km range of the new BYD DMI? Will that be a killer for the other ICE cars?
The reason EV's are being banned from multi level carparks is due to the ferocity of the fire if they do catch fire, and the inability of the fire service to extinguish the fire.
No, they're being banned out of ignorance, although I've yet to come across one where they are actually banned. Do you remember how easily the fire services were able to extinguish the fires in Liverpool, Stavanger and Luton car parks that were started by ICE vehicles and spread by burning fuel under other ICE vehicles? Really successful weren't they?
It's good to hear some facts rather than clickbait for a change. My EV has an LFP battery which I find comforting. Keep in mind though that if EV's are caught up in an unrelated fire, putting that fire out is a lot more difficult and further complicated by the toxic fumes created. A carpark fire with even just a few EV's parked is a scary scenario right now.
Did you happen to listen to the video? According to actual data, a carpark parked full of EV's is safer than one with all ICE. And it follows that as the percentage of pure EV's grow in a car park, so too does the safety of that carpark.
@doughome2378
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Go back and look at "the famous Tesla accident" in California where the front was literally ripped off the car.
The pack was exposed.
Several rows of the cells were visible and some were "compromised"
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Witnesses in other vehicles extracted the driver.
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They called emergency services.
The fire department arrived.
They took precautions BUT did not know how to handle the pack.... So they called Tesla.
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They waited.....
2(?) employees arrived, looked at the pack and *began extracting cells* by hand(!) with zero hazmat protection (I'm not sure they even had gloves?)
We're now at approaching 1 hour into the incident.
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They did what they could and retreated.
The Fire Department applied foam under the vehicle.
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Eventually there was a fire, simply because they couldn't reach all the damaged cells.
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Now imagine a gasoline powered vehicle side-swipng a concrete barrier end on, ripping the front from the vehicle?.
Chance of fuel spillage?
High.
Chance of fire? With fuel and hot metal around?
.
Chance the vehicle would not be "burning nicely" by the time emergency services arrived?
.
As for an "Unrelated fire"
You mean a fire substantial enough to either catch the upper part of the EV, burn the exterior, then the interior, then project sufficient heat DOWNWARD to compromise the top of the pack and heat cells to a critical point?
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Or, sufficient fuel UNDER the EV to heat from below (suggesting a fuel rupture from the source of the fire?)
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I might suggest that in either case, the EV is the least of their worries?
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BTW.
Did you see the Luton Airport carpark fire?
No EVs (Proven)
It was FAST, HOT and OUT OF CONTROL.
@@Tom-dt4iche did, you didn’t read his post. If EV get caught up in an unrelated fire. Ie the fire starts elsewhere and spreads to the EV. So isn’t saying that the EV starts the fire but fire starts elsewhere and spreads to the EV. If the fire starts elsewhere then doesn’t matter if the car park full of EV or ICE as the fire starting unrelated to the car.
If EVs get caught in an unrelated fire, they will burn, especially their interior, of course, BUT the main battery is unlikely to catch fire! So, no, the presence of EVs will NOT make an unrelated fire worse!
@@st-ex8506 let me get this straight. Are you actually saying that if an EV is caught in a fire, it will burn like any other car, but the main battery itself won't burn with the rest of the car? Surely you're not saying that. If so, might I suggest you google "thermal runaway".
Diesel can’t burn.
We need data on number of fires by Model and by Cell technology. A fire safety rating per model type would be the ideal.
That may happen, when individual insurance companies are insuring more than 100,000 of each model. It takes at least a decade, to gather enough data, to publish real world likelihoods of EV fires. It just simply doesn't happen that often!
Utter bullshit from a typical EVangelist.
Normal reaction from an ICE addict.
@@gill7087 No, just a normal reaction from someone who doesn't fall for every bit of propaganda put out by people who don't understand statistics and believe that insurance companies, governments and fire agencies would never lie to them. After a recent plug-in hybrid fire in New Zealand that resulted in the whole house being burnt to the ground, the fire investigators claimed that the fire was in no way caused by the PHEV, which was parked outside and was not charging, and that the fire started behind the house. Video from bystanders shows the car clearly parked in the garage with what looks like a cable sticking out of the very spot that this particular car has it's charging port. Also, drone footage clearly shows that the fire started in the garage. But fire investigators would never lie, would they?
You haven’t clarified if the number per 100000 was for all car or just EV. If it’s for all cars then there are much less EVs than ICE cars. Also, EV are new, less than 10 years old, were as ICE cars can be 30 years old and still in use. I have an EV and would never park it in my garage.
What fraction vs the total number of EV's.
In the US it’s 25 EV,s per 100,000 sales in last 10 years ie cars sold in last 10 years. ICE vehicles were 1535 fires per 100,000 sales. In Norway, the country with the biggest per capita take up of EV,s the ration of ICE fires to EV,s is about 50 to 1. In Australia there have been 6 EV fires from 180,000 on the road. 2 were burnt to the ground in already going house fires unrelated to the EV. 1 Tesla caught fire after a 160km/h crash (data downloaded by Tesla) one was torched by arsonists, one was a home converted EV and one hit a metal spike they think. Not all batteries ignited but I don’t have the figures for that here. Australia stats from Australia EV FIREs. They are all related to insurance stats who keep good figures because it is important to their businesses and they get together to hire companies to get the stats from police, fire services, media and other groups.
@@gill7087 Thanks
True or it would have been nice to see a link to the data and some graphs rather than just talking about it. Would driven km have any impact? Cost of the vehicle? As mentioned by many others age? As the old saying goes, lies, damn lies and statistics…
Does "While being parked" include fire from external sources such as a water heater catching fire and flames engulfing the cars?
you are not using the aircondition to remove heat from the batteri, it job is to cool the cabin. You can use a heatpump to remove heat from the batteri, but you dont always need heating in the cabin, so a big part of it is blown off to the surroundings be a cooler, like an ICE car.
Something missing is the number of these with fire that were never damaged (exempting paint scratched or other very minor away from the power system)
I think you have include the age of the vehicle. Most ICE car fires occur from older vehicles (8 years old or more). Most EV car fires occur on EV vehicles 4 years or less. I think if you compare new ICE car fires vs new EV car fires, you will see that EVs catch on fire more than ICE.
What figures do you have for this? Any? Or is it just a belief? There are older EVs around - 10 years old or so.
@@steveknight878 Try reading the "Analysis of vehicle fire statistics in New Zealand parking buildings - Yuguang Li - CSIRO, Michael Spearpoint - Department of Civil Engineering , University of Canterburym, New Zealand" - They found that cars over 10 yrs of age have disproportionately higher risk of catching fires than new cars". Since EV are relatively new, why include all ice vehicles in the statistics? Also, i think, mainterance is a factor in older ice cars fires. As for EV cars, well, just guessing but it might be production or design issues, just like todays smartphones fires?
From drive com au, they say that the car fire comparison includes ave ice cars of between 12 and 14 yrs old while the ave age of the ev is 4 yrs old.
@@ronaldeusebio6874 Mainly because it is hard to find statistics just for ICE cars 10 years old or younger. It is possible that time will change the statistics, but you can't simply assume that is so. After all, over time we will get better batteries. There are already developments in battery technology of batteries that do not catch fire - so if and when that happens then they will be even safer. Will that happen? I don't know, but it looks promising.
Comparisons with smartphones don't really hold water. They do not have the sorts of safety controls that EVs have.
At present, however, it looks like BEVs are far less likely to catch fire than ICE vehicles. Considering that EVs have been around for about 12 to 15 years, and given that most ICE vehicles are only kept, on average, for 8.5 years, it should be possible to get an idea of how old ICE cars compare with EVs.
It is difficult at the moment to be sure of the risks, because relatively few EVs have caught fire. In the UK 23 passenger EVs caught fire due to a faulty battery from January 1 to March 31, 2023. There are roughly 100,000 vehicle fires a year in the UK (that seems a high figure, but that's what the stats say. I suspect that many of those are minor fires quickly put out, but I don't know).
218 Tesla car fires were confirmed from 2013 to February 2024.
35 fire-related incidents involving a Tesla car were reported globally in 2023.
One Tesla vehicle was involved in a fire incident per 130 million miles travelled from 2012 to 2022.
Bikes and Scooters make up a disproportionate number of battery vehicle fires - I would guess partly from illegal imports of unsafe models.
In the USA there is a vehicle fire every 5 minutes, on average. Very few get mentioned in the media. If an EV catches fire, then it will be reported widely. This is why there is the impression that EVs are likely to catch fire - they make good news stories. Unfortunately, the USA doesn't keep much in the way of statistics on fires by vehicle type (though insurance companies no doubt do). Sweden certainly keeps this information, and they report that 29 EVs and 52 hybrids caught fire in Sweden between 2018 and 2022. According to their stats, there's a 1 in 38,000 chance of fire in an electric car (BEV and hybrid), and for ICE cars there's an average of 3,384 fires per year, for a 1 in 1,300 chance of fire. Hybrids are far far more likely to catch fire than BEVs (or ICE) vehicles. Over the past few years in Sweden the number of EV fires has remained pretty constant (between 20 and 24 per year), while the number of EVs has more than doubled. Not all the fires in EVs involved the battery, by the way.
As I am suggesting the report should compare cars of the same age. Why is there no data for new ICE cars catching fires? maybe because there are very few new ICE car fires? While there is data for new EVs catching fires? The report was done to promote EVs.
EV fires are very difficult to extinguish.
If you have any doubts at all also consider that EVs are at the peak of their technological development while battery termomanagement systems and battery themselves have still quite a while to go.
It is ICE that is at it's peak developement , EVs are developing rapidly.
These are not statistics but just numbers. They need to be normalised like-for-like. Comparing numbers of EV fires against ICE vehicles will not work. There are upward of 20 million ICE vehicles registered in the U.K. but no where near this number of BEV:s. A better measure would be fires per class per 1000 vehicles. ie 45 petrol per 1000, 50 diesel per 1000, 20 hybrid per 1000 and 10 per BEV per 1000. (Made up figures just as an example).
Tesla Does compile statistics of "fires per .Iles driven...
But I doubt you would believe them?
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(It's not even close)
That is PRECISELY the kind of statistics we are talking about! Number of fires per 100’000 units of a given type of vehicle! Statistics taking into account the age of the vehicles also exist, to correct for the fact that the overall EV fleet is younger than the ICE fleet.
@@st-ex8506 Sorry. I missed the qualifying per 100,000 vehicles statement at the beginning.
@@johnford3825 It's quite alright! A point to you for recognizing it!
People need to realise the agenda here, oil companies are not going to say thanks for the last 100years of free cash we’re ok with EV’s….looking forward to closing all our refineries…won’t be allowed to happen…
Everything is made from oil. LOL! Wow! The brain cells have shut down on this propaganda channel!
Stop cherry picking the data.
You’re right, Bens statistics are out of date, the statistics in Norway are 50 to 1 ICE vehicle fires to EV,s. Australia has had 6 EV fires from 180,000 EV,s on the road. 3 of them were arson or ignition from houses which burnt down around them as a result of fires started away from the EV,s.
The US has 1535 ICE vehicle fires per 100,000 vehicles sold in the last 10 years compared to EV,s at 25 per 100,000.
Worldwide the ratio of ICE vehicle fires to Ev fires is better than what Ben said at around 30 to 1.
Hybrids on the other hand are worse than ICE vehicles by a ratio of about 1.5 hybrids catching fire to every 1 ICE vehicle.
@@gill7087 So how many ice vehicles have spontaneously combusted over night in the garage with no ignition source?
@@urbanspaceman7183 No car has ever ignited without an ignition source. The most common source in a car already parked is the 12v battery but the most common by far is a fuel leak near a hot exhaust.
@@gill7087 You know as well as I do that there have been many parked EVs which have set on fire. Especially while charging overnight. You don't have to like the facts but EV fires although less common are more dangerous for many reasons which you already know.
@@urbanspaceman7183 I dont know about these parked EV,s which have caught fire. I do know about first GM EV had a problem with the batteries they used to catch on fire if charged incorrectly but that’s one model from one brand. Remember the Ford Pinto and its self immolation issues and the Toyota Hilux DPF which burnt a few to the ground. There have been many cars with individual faults and various recalls but at the end of the day your ICE vehicle is far far more likely to catch fire than an EV and when it burns, it releases a toxic carcinogenic cloud that is as dangerous as any EV and will kill you exactly the same. If an EV battery ignites it’s harder to put out than a fuel fire but both require special fire equipment and techniques. As I said, both a fire in an EV and a ICE car can kill you the difference is one is between 30 and 50 times more likely to occur while the other is easier to extinguish if it happens. If you are burnt to death or die from toxic fumes inhalation I’m reasonably sure you won’t be worrying about which car is harder for the fired services to put out.
The whole EV fires bit is pain! - motorsport organisations are using it as an excuse to ban EVs - mostly after somebody with a Tesla has won too many times
Hybrid cars with LFP batteries are safe.
Hybrid cars are statistically MORE likely to burn.
@@rogerstarkey5390not with LFP batteries so look into that side before questioning.
I believe you need to compare the figure, corrected for miles traveled by each, to produce a 'number of fires per 100,000 miles traveled' figure.
If there was one nuclear powered car and it never caught fire, it could be argued that nuclear powered cars have fewer fires, which makes them the safest. But would that be good grounds to only manufacture nuclear cars ?
Unless you take into consideration the utility and use of each fuel type, in terms of miles traveled, or alternatively as a proportion of the entire fleet, the statistics read out at the start of this video don't reveal much, because they're easy to pollute, just by changing the number of each different type of fuel source.
EV's are a ridiculous mode of transport. It's like sending us back to the horse and cart days.
While inspecting a garage of our appartement building, with mixed ice, hybrid and some bev cars, the fire brigade inspectors mentioned they have no proven strategy to stop an ev battery fire. When it burns they can’t stop it burning. This would make a bev car fire more dangerous than an ice car fire.
In that case they need to be working to find a "proven strategy" (they do exist)
The localised ignorance of one Inspector is not evidence of an overall lack of knowledge, or skill.
Basically, they are unwilling to do a 10 minute Google search because tools to quickly put out EV fires exist. Fire blankets and nozzles that cut into the battery with water are 2 of them.
consider that there a far more older diesel and gas vehicles which would have more or a chance to catch fire.
so having newer EV's catching for does not bode well for their future with the CURRENT batteries.
it takes time for those dendrites to grow and cause a fire.
There are studies comparing ICE and EVs by same age groups… and EVs are still at least 10 times LESS likely to catch fire!
That’s not how it works.
But when they do catch fire it’s a very intense and hard to put out one.
@EnriqueThieleyeah but with an ice vehicle fire it's just the vehicle that's a loss with an EV fire it's the car the 2 cars either side of it the building in which it's stored the lives of the fire fighters attempting to fight the fire due to the toxicity of the chemicals in the batteries. And this is while EVs are only relatively new what happens when they approach 20-30years old even if they're at junkyards if the batteries aren't disposed of properly they will be more of a risk then an ICE vehicle as the main cause of ICE vehicle fire is an electrical short and most of the junkers have had their 12v lead acid batteries removed as they are cheaper to recycle then to create new unlike EV batteries and with out a heat source and sufficient air fuel ratio fuels don't burn basically if every owner of an ICE vehicle disconnected just 1 terminal of there battery an ICE vehicle WILL NOT spontaneously combust
That is only true where don’t have apppropriate fire measures. Currently most places are setup to deal with ICE cars., and need upgrading to deal with EV. As more EV about then places will be built/upgraded to deal with them. Will refer you to the idiot that complained about the UK hospital that currently upgrading the fire systems in car park to deal with EV so don’t have EV in the car park that not upgraded yet. Instead had to park in one of the others that has been upgraded.
@@robincollis6349
"Yeah but" with the speed and intensity of an ICE fire, by the time Emergency Services arrive is FULLY alight and burning cars on either side.
@@rogerstarkey5390 unless it's in a structure with fire suppression then it can easily be extinguished before further damage is done the same can't be said with EV fires
@@robincollis6349 It is normal practice for the Fire Fighters to wear breathing apparatus when dealing with ANY car fire due to the very dangerous fumes given off by the many components involved, not just petrol, or diesel fuel, but also the plastics, rubbers, paint, etc.
I suggest that 'junkyards' will develop their own, safe procedures for dealing with old EV batteries in the same way that they deal with existing hazardous materials. AT a basic level there is money in EV batteries
Just more reasons to stick with ICE.
Nah.....
So much more expensive to run and less reliable.
So it's better to stick with a vehicle that statistically is nearly 100 times more likely to burst into flames!! Yeah makes perfect sense to me.
I'll stick with my EV thanks.
Ring gear came of fly wheel, totaled a lot of stuff, ICE was good as a wright off. Other ICE vehicles of mine had numerous brake downs that will have no relation to an EV.
and it cost and arm and a leg to repair.
@@johnnodge4327 must be why Chinese EV dealerships in mainland China are burning to the floor every week. now run along and get another booster
Ooo my dream car a Camery, does it hVe an 8 track player 😂
Nothing to say about the fact that ICE vehicles have been around for much longer and that EV fires are far more problematic to deal with then?
What a surprise.
I have never ever heard about a parked ICE car that got on fire. And i am 45 years old
Well now you have.
Because it s not reported... look or it and you ll find it...
Reasons for car fires:
Design Flaws
Poor Maintenance
Car Crashes
Arson
Hybrid and Electric Vehicle Batteries
Overheating Catalytic Converters
Overheating Engines
Spilled Fluids
Electrical System Failures
Fuel System Leaks
I ll leave it to you to undertadn which ones can happen while parked.
It only takes a damage wire or sticking relay to overheat a circuit, which can then ignite the volatile fuel in the plastic fuel lines.
An EV could technically have the same wiring issue causing heat, but as there's no volatile fuels in the vehicle, the chances of the fire spreading are much reduced.
Some years ago there was a problem with a Vauxhall car that often caused them to burst in to flame even when parked. Vauxhalll Meriva I seem to remember. It was to do with the heater controls.
It’s very common! Electric short circuits, for example, do happen! The Luton car park fire was started by a parked diesel car… although very recently parked; the Fremantle Highway fire was caused by a long-parked ICE car! In both cases. EVs were hastily and wrongly accused!