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@Kevin Smith - You should be embarrassed of yourselves... Just announcing to the world how LITTLE you know about Batman. FAKEST. "NERDS". ON. THE. INTERNET.
Kevin Smith new comic books company : 3:29 Smodcastle film festival & Marc projects: 7:13 Native sponsor : 18:30 Batman movie talk : 34:56 Keeps sponsor : 1:37:44 News : Batman openings : 1:39:58 News : Zoë Kravitz rejected in Dark Knight : 1:45:25 News : Netflix Marvels series on Disney+ : 1:51:20 News : TWD spin off & Muppet show : 1:03:43 Audience Q&A : 2:01:04
49:55 All of this was in the movie. The end of the movie was all about how him just going around being Batman beating people up got him in this giant mess. He saw that inadvertently he had created the Riddler and his goons with his actions. Earlier in the movie, the lady running for mayor straight up told him to his face at the funeral that Bruce Wayne wasn't doing anything and he could be doing more, which at the time he took as "Lady, if you only KNEW I'm Batman..." but now, by the end, he understood what she meant, that not only does he need to be Batman, he also has to be Bruce Wayne, which I'm sure will be the focus of the next movie. It was all pretty straight forward, not sure how they missed it. Also, the new Batmobile was awesome.
Yeah, I feel like they both missed some scenes, at least Kev has the excuse that he was probably a little baked . There are lots of little bits of dialogue and small scenes throughout that fill in gaps that Marc had issues with. Not that it invalidates his criticism but some of his gripes make no sense to me because they explicitly cover some of it in the film. Like sometimes too expository. Like for Selina, she was a cat burglar/thief the whole time, seemed pretty clear but Marc didn't see it. She was working at the Iceberg to case the joint which would serve the dual purpose of fucking over Falcone who she was angry with as a deadbeat dad (Not realizing at that point that he had strangled her mother) and getting herself rich. Later she mentions fleecing hedgefund managers and it sounds like a common occurrence for her. She is a grifter and a thief making her way in the world. I always enjoy these guys take on genre shows and films but often I feel they get hung up on one thing and then check out for the rest,
I took the "you're not doing enough" scene as her also being corrupt by blatantly fundraising at a funeral, which made her character even more confusing by the end when she's positioned as like, the moral center of the movie.
I like how you literally time stamped when they talked about it, and then conclude in the end that they 'missed it'. They literally talked about it, they didn't 'miss' it. Apparently people who watched a 3 hour film twice knew more about it than someone who can't watch two people talk about it for 20 minutes
MARC: "...who can fight... kind of OK..." I'm not sure if Marc saw the same movie I did because Batman fucks people up in this movie. Just take the first fight alone, with the leader, the way he dismantles the man's attack and destroys his life - and face. He goes into a club and fights off a bunch of thugs like brushing away flies. In one shot, he systemically disarms like 4 armed men and proceeds to club them with their own guns. Even Gordon got clocked with a "pulled punch" and complained. WTF Marc?
He’s trying to be that guy go against the crowd that likes it I’m listening to him talk and at least Kevin understood a lot of it idk what Marc watched saying seven is a Batman movie make me laugh
Y'all too salty. He didn't like it, Batman is depicted as an acrobatic brute of a man, and brute was all he was in this film, in terms of fighting. Granted, none of them stood a real chance. He could do a flip or trip someone or use the cape to blind someone but I think what Marc says is something to the notion of It's basically Daredevil, not Batman, there's nothing Batman about how he fought, when he nailed the dude on the stairs with the pipe before he could shoot, all I thought of was Cox's Daredevil... but there's time for that to come as we await another sequel for a Batman trilogy.
@@uncharted9097 dude s trying too hard to be smiths counter. If he agreed with everything smith says, theres no point in him being in the show seeing as hes significantly less interesting than smith.
First time where I fundamentally disagree with both of their criticism on a movie. The sea wall issue is referenced multiple times throughout the movie, so I don’t understand how it “comes out of nowhere”.
@@Remiddi The opening scene, at several points in the background, It rains the entire movie and mentions of possible flooding in the background, maps of the sea wall appear, the renewal fund mentions cover it.
@@WhipahSnapah Yeah they've seriously declined over the years. The show gets in the way a lot of a good detailed review I think. Kev should go back to doing a whole video dedicated to his reviews.
The credibility of the review went right out the window when Kevin asked for a post credit scene with Alfred and Bruce reconciling. It literally happened in that same exact scene in the hospital and was one of my favourite moments of the movie…
Exactly, theres no logical way that in 2 viewings of the movie they didnt catch that scene. None of their problems with the film seem to make any sense
I agree, I don't want to watch their version of Batman "they wish they got" and I don't like when Marc is like "I see what they we're trying to do" I think they did exactly what they wanted to do with the movie and it worked!! These movies don't need to be ultra and cerebral, they need to be FUN and SIMPLE so the average person can follow and enjoy
It was dope but it did look like it stalled for a second 🤣 I reckon he should have just revved some more until letting loose instead of going forward a bit and immediately braking.
I saw the intro but missed the chase 😭 Had to take a piss break. I loved that it was 3 hours but why couldn't they have inserted just a 10 minute intermission. Well, maximum profits is the answer to that I guess.
@@josearrocha3377 I get that it didn’t stall, watch it again, it lurches forward and brakes hard. I get what they were going for, I really do, just didn’t quite work for me. Just my opinion, it’s okay to have differing ones.
I like how The Batman starts with a guy who detects to just beat the shit out of villains, using fear and darkness to the point that even the people he saves are scared of him too - only to see his Vengence being misread by Catwoman and The Riddler - and he decides turn into the guy who saves people: cutting powerlines, and being the torch in the darkness to guide the helpless. Cops calling him freak start to side with him, and that change starts with saving an orphan boy at his dad's funeral. Batman is the Superman that knows the dark, gets innocent people out of it, and drags criminals into, like Hades of the pantheon. It definitely could've been stronger, but this one is second only to The Dark Knight (and has fewer flaws then TDK-Rises) to me. I enjoyed the rain for the flooding building up to that 3rd act. Seven was the filthy city, this gotham is the abyssal tempest.
Dhe moment шhen Chris O'Robin sayz “holy rusted metal, Бatman!!”, dhe mōvie “jumps dhe sharк (repellent)” and veerz toшards dhe old Бatman TV shoш∴ # Death Trap
Agree 100% but I think, for me personally, it's up there with the dark knight. The flood is representative of a baptismal water to cleanse Gotham of the sins(the corrupt) away in order to lead this horrible town into a new dawn. The 6 going on 7th day of Genesis in the bible. The dawn of man: the birth of Batman and going into the 7th day: the dawn of a new earth( Gotham). The seawall was pointed to in many shots in foreground and background capacity, the nonstop rain and the seawall directly being referred to lead the the wall blowing and the city being flooded after Edward Nashton allowed himself to be captured and invited Batman to his cell in Arkham. He wanted Batman there with him since he saw him as a silent partner and was responsible for inspiring the future Riddler to do what he did in the film. Like in the comics, Batman is mostly responsible for inspiring his rogues gallery to take action and take the law into their own hands. They often miscontrue and warp his true intentions to fit their crazy ways which give them, in there own minds, a legitimate reason to do what they do.
The 3rd act is a nihilistic individual using social mob mentality throught the overuse of digital technology and using that tech to corrupt the minds of like minded individuals like Edward Nashton to stand up and take the law in their own hands like the Batman. Edward believes this wave or neverending tide of crime and corruption will never quell and will continue to engulf the innocent citizens of Gotham City. That is why his cult of fanatics, followers, go to Gotham Times Square and try to kill Bella Real the new mayor elect. Riddler and his army of goons feel like she will end of being just as corrupt and this whole ordeal will begin once more with a new form of Renewal so she has to die to stop this from occurring. Obviously, the machinations and reasoning of a madman and sociopath. Like earlier on, with Batman stopping the train gang at the begging of the film with his taser finger built into his electroproof suit and later with Batman stopping the Riddlers' goons and Gordon saving Real, his electroproof suit takes the voltage of the wire so all the people in the water below will not get elecrocuted and be killed. He than takes Don Mitchells sons hand( who is symbolic of being a younger bruce) and lead him into a new like after rising from the waters in a form of becoming a new Batman: going from a symbol of vengeance to hope.
The batmobile, based on the 70s comics design of the Batman comics, is using a form of intimidation reminiscent to Stephen king's Christine or the film Bullit to frighten Oswald. It's a flaming beast and a possessed vehichle of primal violence and rage symbolizing who Batman is a this primal warrior, a mystic shaman, in the cape and cowl of the Batman.
It wasn't the door that was the running joke - it was the bouncers outside. The running joke was that every time you see DUMFREE TWEED and DEEVER TWEED, they get the shit beat out of them and look more and more injured over the course of the movie. Batman beats the shit out of them twice, Catwoman lays them clean out, Bruce Wayne just makes fun of them.... nobody in the MOVIE even takes them seriously, lmfao. EDIT - In fact, I'm going to take this a step further and say that scenes of Batman walking with slow, heavy steps and knocking on the front door is actually a really cool character moment. Because... technically, it isn't Batman knocking on the door, it's Vengeance. It comes in with no warning, you can't stop it, everybody's either going to shit their pants and run, or get the fuck beat out of them. This motherfucker is about to clear the entire club out with his fists like he's River Tam, just large as life, in plain sight, not giving a single fuck. Mistakes happen as a result. The next evolution of that character would be, "Hey, if I can just go through this window and interrogate Penguin in his office, I can just save my strength and not have to beat the holy dogshit out of every single poor, dumb motherfucker that just happens to be in the club between the front door and the office, starting with Tweedledee and Tweedledum over here. You hapless dipshits. Do you know who I am?"
didn't any of you cry to this line on the movie ?? "Our scars can destroy us, even after the physical wounds have healed. But if we survive them, they can transform us. They can give us the power to endure, and the strength to fight." and your saying Batman is not a symbol of hope ??
This movie is like reading a comic book on the big screen. Of course it’s not perfect, but no Batman movie truly is…It’s a perfect Batman story and I love every second of it. He’s not fully fleshed out yet, and that’s exciting for the sequels - his overall storyline will be incredible.
I agree. It was so nice to see some detective aspects and I thought all the characters worked very well. While I had no problem with the length, it could have been shorter and not missed out on anything, also Alfred was severely underused. Yeah, definitely not the Batman (or Bruce) that we've seen previously on screen but now we can get to see him become the Batman and Bruce we know. There's too many different versions of Batman out there to ever make a 'perfect' Batman movie. I'm so glad I got to see the movie last night, then have this drop so I could watch it after. I'd hate to have to avoid this because of spoilers.
@@Elwaves2925 I agree, but at the same time i'm willing to bet that a lot of people won't return to this film once the sequels are out, you know what i mean? Kinda like with the new Planet of the Apes movies :D
@@PezQ84 I can't speak for others but I will be returning to this movie again, just like I've rewatched the new POTA movies multiple times and prefer them to the originals. This isn't my favourite Batman movie but it does have stuff that I've wanted from a Batman movie for a long time. 🙂
Man Marcs movie better get picked up by a studio and win 10 Oscars. Because His movie snobbery on these other films must mean he's making a masterpiece. Jfc.
I get that he had a long list of issues with the film but he literally said he liked it. It’s not snobbery to discuss the parts you didn’t like. That’s how movie discussions fucking work.
Matt Reeves, Robert Pattinson, and the film itself made it pretty clear that this Bruce doesn’t see the need in “Bruce Wayne” right now. He’s full Batman mode for the most part. He doesn’t like to be recognized out in public and wants no part of it. The movie makes that pretty clear. Fun episode though. You guys are the best.
He hasn't figured out that Bruce is an asset to Batmans mission. I think by the end he started to understand that Bruce can do things that Batman can't and that he's going to need to utilize both in their unique ways.
I think they know that, their issue was basically that they didn't get what they wanted - which is fair since it's a big part of the character. I don't agree with them entirely, butI could see their POV on a few things.
@@nicholsonfile Not really imo, they make it clear in the film that Bruce is a well know trauma burdened recluse. Plus this Batman doesn't appear to be loaded. Most times he's on foot or riding a civilian bike in civilian clothes, everything he has looks handmade including the new bat vehicles and signal, and he's not throwing around tech/equipment like its a firesale. It took Gordon 2 years to even SEE the Batmobile in this universe (which is under a tarp at the batcave most of the film), as well as Batman not having an actual Batbike until the end of the film. Batman doesn't even use batarangs, and clearly his suit isn't always pristine like Keaton or Bale's were. This Batman is very obviously much more of an urban legend that not everyone knows about or believes is real, and is more along the lines of it could be anyone in the cowl. It's not like Christian Bale where Batman is clearly rich because everything is clean and he has a new gadget every other week, where everyone knows about and believes in Batman, and Batman is running around loudly using high-grade military technology like his cape, the tumbler, his disruptor, his sonic signal, or a literal prototype military aircraft
It was referenced once, in a throwaway line at the very start of the movie. I guess the nonstop rain also counts in a really subtle way. That really wasn't much of a set up... still a way better movie than these two give it credit for.
But why bother making a big point of it? How often would a damn seawall come up in everyday conversation? Putting in some random plot point about how the seawall needs repairs or something would have been hokey.
@@keefriff99 I didn't want a big point of it, I just wanted to know it existed more then 30 seconds before it became the finale. It was mentioned so briefly at the beginning that the only reason I caught it on the second viewing was cause I was looking for it BECAUSE I saw the finale. Besides, the constant rain is a good reason to mention the sea walls naturally.
Martha being an “Arkham” comes from Geoff Johns’ Batman: Earth One from 2012. Kevin, you had him on your podcast and you guys talked about that aspect specifically…lol
@@DuranmanX Kevin has a crazy weird memory sometimes. You’d be surprised. Listening to SModcast and the old Fat Man on Batman and sometimes he pulls out the most obscure memories from like 30 years ago.
@@jakegittes1864 that's normal for most people. They can remember major events from the first 20-30 years of their life, but as they reach their 40s and 50s, their memory tends to worsen. I have grandparents that can barely remember something that happened yesterday but vividly remember things that happened before I was born.
The beginning scene of the batmobile reveal I didn’t take it as him fumbling shifting gears. I took it as an intentional intimidation tactic in the car towards them. Like barking before he unleashed on him
I had to piss like a racehorse and left right after that part (missed the whole car chase unfortunately) but I thought he was also doing it to create a distraction for Selina to escape.
Ironic how in their reviews, they complain about the lack of fantasy and too “real worldy” the Batman is… yet in the first Q&A Kevin says he doesn’t like Batgirls cowl because her hair comes out the back and that “doesn’t make sense in the real world”
These kinda notes from dudes in their 50s is how we end up with 2 hour movies that are nothing but callbacks to older movies and characters explaining why they're about to do what they are doing to each other over and over before they do it
Yeah Kevin is pretty overt about it and it can be frustrating - all he ever wants to see are movies that remind him of other movies. He is honest enough to say he has no imagination - the only casting he can imagine is the same people who have played characters before. He cannot imagine anything new.
@@silcoxjakob You gotta really hate batman to see him finally do detective work and be like 'hmmm not very batman tho is it" I'm guessing you're at the age now where you're old enough to see influences in films for the first time and not just as completely new content in a void, and its upsetting you. Sorry to hear that. All artist have inspirations. Batman is a rip off of Zorro to begin with.
Which is funny when you consider the fact that Kevin's most recent film (Jay & Silent Bob Reboot) and, judging by the trailer, his upcoming film (Clerks III) are almost nothing but callbacks and references to his earlier films. Now, for all I know Clerks III may end up surprising me by actually being _good;_ maybe all those references to the first two movies were just thrown into the trailer to help remind wider audiences of what came before it and it won't just be an hour and a half of tired/recycled jokes, one-liners, and cameos, but based on his output over the last decade, I do not have high hopes.
Sometimes I don’t understand what you guys want. They give him a beautiful character arc and you say you’d rather not stand for hope. Batman didn’t just stand for fear, which he still does, he started out just not caring about people. He wasn’t beating thugs to save anyone. He was doing it for vengeance. For himself. Through his interactions with everyone from the riddler to catwoman to the petty thugs that worked for the riddlers cause to seeing that even good people make mistakes (His father) he sees that people aren’t just horrible but worth saving. The riddler was an amazing interpretation.. HIS VERBAL RIDDLES WERNT MENT TO BE HARD. It’s how he layer out his plan and the cyphers and the fact that he thought Batman was on his side. If he really wanted to confused him he would have. Batman doesn’t have it all figured out. It’s his second year. He’s still a great detective for the experience he has. The cops def are scared of him. I like that most of them are good and are just being hardasses to compensate for being scared about the corruption and the dirty cops they have to work with. So them being in Batman’s face was them trying to act like they got it together. And he knocked on the club door because he literally was there to talk. It’s the thugs trying to do their job and not get fired that ruined it. Batman not special? Just a man in armor? I want to know what you want. He’s dark. He’s brooding. He’s a detective. He’s a fighter. He’s smart. It is the weakest complaint out of them all. … a muscle car that as too much muscle for him? Mark. Hush. Pun intended. I can handle wen people don’t like a movie. But to oversimplify something just to complain seems above you all. Even mark. Who I realize hates on everything.
It honestly feels like they just wanted to hate the movie and found shit to nitpick or ignore. I can't believe they saw it twice. What a waste of tickets.
I completely agree with. This guy Marc complaining about Batman being in the film too much always around cops and would complain about him not being Batman in the film too much. Stop it man. Go somewhere and write your own Batman then. For your preferences.
I agree with, amazingly, the rest of the RUclips commenting community here. Kevin & Marc: I don't understand your criticism, but appreciate your sharing. To me, Bruce & Batman becoming a symbol for hope is inspiring and unique. Superman doesn't have a monopoly on "hope" (see: Man of Steel). This movie humanized the most innately human "superhero" while also showcasing why he's exceptional: his drive and commitment. But, for once, it was shown how this second-to-none drive and commitment could be unhealthy and inspire a criminal to replicate it in their own way. This read, to me, consistently with how he's been portrayed in graphic novels as a young Batman. And - again, using his comics/graphic novel history as the background here - this drive and commitment are needed because he's NOT gifted with superpowers. He creates those powers for himself. So, Marc: your idea that you hope that the days of Batman being portrayed "accurately" are over doesn't make sense to me - what would you rather his portrayal be? And how would that adaptation be any more compelling? I'm genuinely curious. The point of Batman is to have the potential to ground him firmly in a place that resonates emotionally, geographically (with Gotham being a realistic analogue to major Western metropolises), and physically as a person fighting to achieve his best self. Robert Pattinson was also in realistic fighting shape - I've seen and heard some fighters talk about how the comic book's "bodybuilder" aesthetic would be unrealistic for somebody who would need intense endurance to continuously fight. So, again, this was a detail that was totally captured with care and accuracy and with deference to his established comic book background. Campiness is always available, too - I don't think it's a coincidence, though, that most of the most popular graphic novels about him completely eschew the camp for the darkness and grit. So, it's no surprise Matt Reeves/the cast also resonated with this darker, more grounded-while-still-being-pulpy material. Robert Pattinson's voice also was - again, in my opinion - the epitome of a live-action Batman voice. It strayed from Christian Bale's "monster growling" characterization and instead found the Clint Eastwood-type forceful whisper. And this Western motif was even captured in Michael Giacchino's score with a slight guitar twang in the "The Batman" track. To me, the beauty of the movie is how it takes Batman back to his pulpy roots of the 1930's and 40's - and paying homage to those characters who inspired him, like Zorro and The Shadow - while still adapting his story to the modern era in a way that's both comic book-y and realistic. Matt Reeves clearly loves the character and what you're choosing to critique are true nitpicks that also sound more like you're making fun of it. And I'm sorry you are missing the forest for the trees with this.
I've been listening to Kevin Smith podcasts for over 12 years. I thought this was by far the best Batman movie in 15 years (I really really dislike the Snyder ones and TDKR didn't really do it for me). This is why when I went into this expecting Kevin to gush, like he always does about DC movies, I was absolutely flabbergasted that this is the one Batman movie where he decides to nitpick. I don't even disagree with some of their points, I just wonder where this critical eye was when the other movies came out? Since it's the internet I feel the need to point out that I am not mad, in my opinion the movie was great and I respect their opinion even if it differs from mine lmao
Man if he lets Marc go first, it can definitely skew his review. Marc will ALWAYS be negative if something isn't super pandering, or if he didn't say he liked it first. For example, he got to see Civil War way before Kevin and he acted like it was the very best marvel movie yet. Not saying it wasn't great, but I can't help but think he'd shit on it if someone else beat him to the punch. I really miss old-school fatman on Batman.
I don't know, Kevin wasn't too thrilled about Batman Begins. He thought it was too serious when he first saw it. So to me it would kind of make sense that these two would be a little put off on a more grounded gritty take.
Also, for the unmasking while unconscious.... Surely the idea is that Gordon was defending him, just as he stepped in to defend him while conscious. DUH. These are the silliest complaints ever.
But that being said, this was one of the very few points that jostled me out of the movie to be "wait, really they didn't take the mask off?" Especially given a decent number of cops were corrupt and would love to see who is messing with their revenue stream. I still very much enjoyed the flick, but that part really strained the suspension of disbelief.
Best batman. Hands down. Actually felt like I was watching a batman film. Loved it. To real worldy?? Gotham was a real corrupt place. It was called new York in the 1920-1970s where the mob literally ran the whole city. And thats where the original inspiration came from. Perfect tone for me. Especially if your fan of the animated series
@@tomzar8524 every important politician in Gotham went to that club and heavy hitters were in the vip section of the club. Meaning the whole city was corrupted, Gordon even said he only trusted Batman
The best representation. He was young...angry and trying to control his unbridled power...he was young and raw. As he walked you can feel the anger welling up. They completely missed the concept of this movie
I didn't like how Bruce spoke to Alfred, but I felt it worked from the perspective that Bruce is so under-developed as a person. He focused on becoming Batman....to the extent that he is quite child like as Bruce. He's not considered how to be Bruce Wayne, and he isn't emotionally developed...so he treats Alfred like a sulky teenager. But when he nearly loses him, it shakes him. I feel like in movie two Bruce will be a very different person.
Exactly, and even after almost losing him, given it's the last person he has left he lashes out with the "you lied to me." It's not a script or character flaw, it's an emotional reaction from a suuuuuuper emotionally stunted person..
I guess the group of street rats who jumped him in the first 15 minutes didn't get the memo. Oh, and Batman has a hard time beating up those low level thugs. Yeah so scary
@@padenbang7375 Huh? He made easy work of them, enough for some of them to run away if I remember correctly. He caught a couple of punches here and there throughout the movie(which felt consistent to the whole tone in which he was portrayed), but I don't remeber him really struggling with anyone he fought. They probably weren't afraid for the reason you suggested, they didn't know yet, and they were deep.
I really like Marc as a person, but generally whenever he reviews ANYthing or does a watch along, it becomes much more of an exercise for him to apply the most basic “rules of screenwriting, day 1, chapter 1” rules toward them, opposed to seeing the whole bigger picture, & it becomes a really surface level insight of his criticisms on ‘moments’ opposed to the whole picture. I get that he is an upcoming screenwriter, but when you base your entire criteria on what a film has to do, based on the most basic ‘rules’ of ‘how to write a screenplay’ taught by entry level texts, then you will miss what is deeper within the intention of the themes & character motivations that are entangled throughout a films whole runtime, opposed to just within that moment. Because often, when Marc suggests “this is what this scene SHOULD have done, then it will give it THIS particular meaning”. True, it will give THAT moment a particular meaning, while also absolutely contradicting everything that came before it, the writers intention for its existence in the story & where the story is intentionally leading the characters towards the actual theme that is the real journey, opposed to what you want it to be in order to justify its existence & not looking beyond that. Otherwise, you’re criticising the outcome against what you wanted it to do, rather than see what is there & what that means for everything that came before & everything going forward. It would be nice to see him talk about what he sees as the bigger picture of something that is being said, opposed to his own conclusions that really are surface story beats based on ‘moments’ & analyse further. As any creative writing/drama school/screenwriting class tell their students “these are rules that can be broken, they are not mandatory. You can break the mould & follow the truth of your characters & the story you want to tell”. *this isn’t just my defence of The Batman, it’s just something that always bugs me every time he breaks down films, which is why he has such a reputation of hating everything, when he doesn’t really. He’s a good guy, just being a bit too ‘I am a writer when I watch things so will instead apply to everything during its runtime what I would of done instead of learn from what another writer is trying to tell (or teach) me”
Yeah i tend to agree with that, I was surprised that their 'review' of the movie was selected scenes and bits they remembered without being too concerned with those overall themes and the story.
He doesn't "want to be a screenwriter," he literally is a screenwriter. I know this gets used as a straw man to prevent people from criticising anything at all but that isnt how I'm using it: How many Batman shows did you get hired to write for this year? How many Star Trek positions did you have to decline?
@@nicholsonfile I clearly state that I do like Marc. & I do take an interest in his point of view which is why I watch/read it with enthusiastic curiosity when he discusses something. Though I can also notice a pattern & wish for him to change his approach in a new way, as his criticisms of things always come from the same angles, when not all art forms are intended to be viewed through that exact same lens & can often miss the point. It is okay to disagree & create discussion, as it is what makes for broader insight & what you can take away from it (for better or worse, without anything becoming a personal dislike)
"Well, it's better than any Batman I could make". Kevin literally says something like this every time he doesn't like a movie but doesn't want to overtly shit on it.
I’ve listened to Kev and Marc review live action Batman films for years. In the form of retrospective commentary tracks, trailer reviews, spoiler and non spoiler reviews for the following films… Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, Batman and Robin, Batman Begins, Batman V Superman, Suicide Squad, Justice League, Zack Snyder’s Justice League, The Batman. Marc hasn’t been positive about any of them. At a certain point just find a new thing to like my guy
@@MrML4L I guess my point is, most people are lucky to have one movie about something they are really passionate about. Batman fans get a new one every 3 years basically. And during the Burton and Schumacher films, Marc and Kev would make criticize how stupid and unrealistic they were. And during the Batman begins commentary, they would criticize how serious it tried to be. Same with the Batman where Marc is literally saying there’s no point in him dressing as a bat lol. Too campy, too serious, he just doesn’t seem like he will ever love a Batman movie.
That's why I feel like he was the wrong person to join Fatman on Batman. Kevin is always a ray of sunshine, but Marc brings out this weirdly negative side of him. Maybe it's because Marc is weirdly negative.
I hear ya, and it can be hard to listen to negative aspects of the stuff that we love, even more so when its as great as something as "The Batman". But right or wrong, it can be important to be as critical as possible when it comes to this stuff. Its nice to blindly say "I LOVE THIS !!! ", as that ends up being the take I usually have when it comes to pretty much everything, but if we don't have that critical eye, we might end up returning to the times of "eh, who cares if its trash? these idiots will pay to see it anyway". Someone has to keep em on their toes.
@@splitint3021 I was exactly the same way. Love Smith but cant stick around because Bernardin is so annoying. He just shits on everything DC and shills out for Marvel.
Amazing movie, easily my top 5 movies of all time. These two clowns created the woke He-man show on Netflix, remember that. This is why they can't appreciate the class of The Batman.
@@SolomonRasputin wow. The sexism is strong in this one. So … I’m a woman. Therefore I only saw this because of the lead actor? Nevermind the room in my home dedicated to Batman. Nevermind that I own every GN ever printed. Nevermind my four Batman tattoos. But sure … I’m a chick so I’m here for Robert Pattinson. Cool bro. You better go, your mom is calling you for dinner.
I think the point of the movie was him realizing Gotham does need the help of Bruce Wayne. When Bruce first started being Batman in the comics he didn't immediately embrace the playboy aspect and try to hide his true persona..look at Year One, Phantasm, Arkham Origins, Zero Year, etc...
I actually got that in the end him realizing that he needs to be Bruce Wayne in order to be The Batman. He needs to fix the things The Batman can't fix and use his wealth to at least make the people of Gotham even a little at peace.
Where does everyone get that he finds out he needs to be more? Like im just not seeing it from the film. We can project that onto the film, but I don't remember that allusion.
@@seanthomas1552 If you mean more than "vengeance" then the seeds were placed in the intro voice over where he'd been doing it for 2 years and things were getting worse. It was 1st reinforced when he beats up the face-paint thugs and the victim isn't thankful bit wildly afraid of him as well. There's probably a few more beats in there but the Riddler interrogation where Riddler is claiming they're a team and Riddler is just doing the work Batman is and then finally the Riddler-Flunky that he venom-pounds saying he's "vengeance." That moment Batman realizes there's a missing component. He then takes steps towards saving people where it isn't just him punching faces but stopping the electricity, and then when he reaches out in the water the victim actually reaches back. Is that enough?
I'll add he might have also realized he needed to be more than even a hopeful Batman by finding out about the Renewal fund that Thomas Wayne set up with high hopes but then with his murder the fund was literally funding crime. And that funding needed oversight--oversight that might have had an earlier flag planted in the movie where Bruce is told the accountants need to talk to him and the meetings he's dodging. Is that also helpful?
LoL, True. To be fair to Marc, that's just like how most complaints about Marc's reviews are about how he should have reviewed the movies/shows the way they wanted him to, rather than based on his own point of view as a writer. Turns out everyone is guilty of the "but why don't they see it my way?", whether it is complaining about a movie's direction, or complaining about how someone reviews a movie. A happy ecosystem of criticisms we all participate in once we share our opinions to the public
I know right?? Every review he condescendingly goes on & on about what the superior direction would've been (according to him). I'm just trying to hear what Kevin thought lol
Marc emphasizes his expert opinion over his fan opinion, and Kevin Smith does the opposite. It's like if you have a carpenter and ask him "what do you think about this house?" Chances are you're going to hear a lot about the carpentry and (unless the work is very well done) where/how it needs to be fixed. Smith in this analogy is the carpenter friend who is like "this house has a library with a hidden passage behind a bookcase and that's awesome enough to ignore all the stuff that wasn't done expertly." Most fans will relate to the latter because, frankly, they've had the good fortune to not have seriously studied the creation process (which always to some extent ruins the enjoyment of the medium.)
Trucks collide and explode on the highway and a muscle car Batmobile comes flying out of the flames and takes down a car. A guy in a Batsuit gets shot point blank in Bat covered armor and uses a gliding suit thru an Urban setting. Recording eye lenses are used to help Batman investigate..I don't see how the fantasy of comics is missing from this film.
It feels like Marc is critiquing the movie while completely missing the point that this Batman is in his mid to late 20s and has only been batman for 2 years. It's like he didn't accept that major point and is saying "yeah but he's not enough like how Batman, the finished article, is supposed to be" as if that isn't the entire point of the movie. It's an origin story about the beginning of his career as Batman, of him BECOMING Batman.
Here's the problem with your line of thought and I've seen it a lot. People assume others are missing that point. They're not, you see it is possible to get that point, and then not like that as direction for taking the story...
@@ThatBrendonGuy he's literally saying "I get it... But that's not batman" and that's literally the entire point of the movie. I'm not saying he doesn't understand it, I'm saying he can't accept it.
I'm with you library gary. In the Nolan films, which are beloved, I seem to remember Bruce not actually being Bruce until he leaves Gotham to go spend time learning about the darker things in life and then spends time with old Raz before coming home to be a very different person. I think it's fine that that aspect didn't work for Marc. But as he marinade on the film he really should start to see a different perspective on his point. If ever there is a storyline where Bruce just wakes up one day is already the all encompassing Bruce we know and love, that should be a time Marc complains.
The immediate takeaway I got from watching 'The Batman' was that neither Batman nor Bruce Wayne exist yet. "The Batman" is just a symbol of selfish vengeance and Bruce is basically nonexistent. It's not until one of the Riddler's goons says his name is "Vengeance" that Batman realizes that the Riddler is right, that they are the same (just people running around in costumes exacting their own brand of justice to appease no one but their own desired versions of justice), and it's at that moment that he realizes his role needs to be more about helping Gotham than it is about satisfying himself. And it wasn't until he saw the level of devastation that the Riddler caused, and that the mayor wasn't afraid to be herself, unmasked, in the light of day, that he realized that that was who he needed to be as a Wayne, because he has the means to step up and make sure things get fixed, to help lobby for the right politicians in the city, that his money, while meaning little to him, can mean everything for others. 'The Batman', to me, was Batman and Bruce Wayne's origin stories. By day he would become a philanthropist, and by night he would become a symbol of justice.
I was ok with his criticisms, we all have things we want out of something we love. Like Dune was an amazing movie, but I'm such a fan of the source material I could make long list of criticisms. Where Marc lost me was when he said he'd give it a rotten score, which would indicate he disliked it, and that movie was way too good to dislike.
44:25 I think the reason Batman gets hit and shot during fights is because Reeves and co figured out there is no way of showing Batman fighting 6 people at the same time, without some of them waiting their turn. This is what you see a lot in the Nolan sequels where the goons are waiting for him to turn around or come running at him with their guns instead of just shooting.
Quite surprised just how far Kevin and Marc missed the mark on the Batman. A lot of criticisms they mentioned are referred to in the film. Were they all stoned throughout each viewing?
Jaded perhaps. I definitely got a "We're too good for Batman these days" vibe about the whole thing. This show used to be called "Fatman on Batman" and now it's just "Fatman hating on Batman". Sad.
@@sash9249 Jesus you fans are weird....they didn't like this one piece of Batman media as much as you guys liked it and you guys turn on them...its okay to have different opinions and views...don't take it so hard
@@seanthomas1552 I guess it's not so much turning as not understanding some of the criticisms? At least for me, anyway. I usually appreciate Marc's input even when I don't agree with him at all, I like to hear his insight. But many of the points he and Kevin made here were addressed in the movie. Even silly things like Bruce being mean to Alfred, when the movie clearly shows how Bruce thinks he's above those connections and when Alfred almost dies, he realizes he really was afraid to lose him. Sure, he says Alfred lied, but the scene ends with them holding hands and almost crying about how much they love each other. They don't have to like the movie as much as I did, I don't really care about that 'cause it's Batman and we all have our favorite versions, but they way they criticized it makes it seem like they missed some key scenes, so I agree with OP on that.
For someone that usually goes all in on flicks even if they're pretty trash (*COUGH! Rise of Skywalker*), I'm surprised that this is the one for Kev to be a bit hard on. This was the truest comic Batman they've ever put to screen and I dug every aspect of it except *that scene with *you know who at the end. Not bad but just a bit unnecessary and shoehorned in imo. For a film called 'The Batman' I think it was important that Bruce was almost indistinguishable, the arc was about the realisation that he can do good with more than just fear and brawn. Cast are incredible, cinematography was astounding and Gotham was beautiful in the scuzziest way possible. Real nice to watch a comic book film where they don't feel the need to spoon-feed you every plot point with exposition and shitty reveals. MORE. OF. THIS. 9/10
This movie's goal was to actually sway away from the comics and to go be its own thing so you calling it the truest Batman is kinda wrong lol. If you liked it that's fine but it would be incorrect to call it something it wasn't even trying to be, and you can go see what both Pattinson and Reeves said for proof of that
Just what I was thinking. I no longer care his thoughts and opinions on shit. I'm just here for Kev. I would've preferred if this were a Kev and Ralph episode
Man, I used to listen to the early Fatman on Batman episodes and thought I’d come back to see Kevin’s thoughts on The Batman. Looking in the comments, I’m glad I’m not the only one that feels that both Kevin and Marc completely missed the mark on this one. This movie had so much to love and just about all of their mentioned “flaws” are very little nitpicks that make sense given a little more thought. I hope given some time and maybe another rewatch or two they’ll come around to it. Pattinson does an incredible job as Batman. Jeffrey Wright is hands down my favorite Gordon. I’m excited to see how Zoë Kravitz’s Catwoman evolves. Paul Dano made the Riddler a truly terrifying villain. Colin Farrell’s Oz/Penguin is such a fun character to watch. John Turturro made Carmine Falcone so much more menacing than I expected. And what else is there to say about Andy Serkis other than another perfect performance. So excited to see where the sequel takes all these characters and the city of Gotham as a whole.
Marc always has had this tendency to nitpick the hell out of most comic book movies of late. I don't remember the last time he universally enjoyed any comic book adaptation. I think his keen eye for writing, narrative detail, and character development is hard for him to shake.
They remind me of old men, unable to change what they view as "the way". It's like when old people stop listening to new music because they just don't get it. Their musings on art become tedious and formulaic. Each critique sounds like it should start with "back in my day". I used to love this show. I watched every week. It's just...harder now.
Didn't they build a statue of Batman at the end of Dark Knight Rises when they thought he was dead. That whole trilogy was about Batman becoming more, becoming a legend. So I don't understand why Batman can not be a symbol of hope in this version of Gotham.
@@SuperTiaanBro No. I just know much more about this than you. In "The Batman" Batman does a lot of detective work but he isn't that great at it. Gordon and Catwoman solve at least as much of the crime as Batman. Even the Penguin chips in. Meanwhile Batman in BVS finds out Superman's weakness is Kryptonite, finds out where to steal it, and finds out where Luthor is keeping Superman's mom in drastically short order. In Batman 89 Batman finds out the specific chemical combinations killing people and where they are being manufactured. Do you understand that I am correct now?
I dig Marc as a person and I respect him, but it seems more and more, as time goes on, that he’s a contrarian for the sake of being one. Every time he does a review it’s a laundry list of small things that he acts like are massive issues in a movie. Many times he makes things an issue that aren’t really an issue. It seems a lot of times his problem is that the filmmakers do something that “I wouldn’t have done that. I would have done it like this”, as if doing it any other way is some how the wrong choice and a flaw in a film. It just feels like every time something comes out that is going to be popular and is widely regarded as a great film once it does always ends up being nit picked to shit by Marc for no other reason other than to set himself apart from all the other people who are saying it great. Even if it’s a movie he really loves he’ll spend so much time finding a thing to complain about and treat like it’s something that could have potentially ruined the movie. Idk maybe it’s just me, but he reminds of that one guy everyone knows who took a couple of film classes or English literature courses and thinks that they see all the things wrong in something that others don’t and will spend the entire conversation explaining what was wrong with it and all the bad decisions and missed opportunities even though there wasn’t really all that much and spends little time talking about what was great and enjoyable.
I could not disagree more with almost every single take in this review. I mean everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think every observation is way off base. I haven't read as many comics I guarantee... But I can absolutely pinpoint countless comics that were directly referenced in and inspired this film. It seems as if they were looking at it super surface level and not analyzing the choices the film made and just criticizing them just to criticize.
Yeah, I think the movie is good, but I have critiques... just not really any of the same ones they do. Except for maybe the big setpiece spectacle ending. It does feel a little out of place in a purposefully smaller scale approach.. but other than that I think most of what they said is pretty inaccurate
I'm srry but no...batman begins is classic...the best performance of batman ever....what Christian bale did with his voice in that..people made fun of it at first...now they have batman always gruffing his voice or have some sort of technology to do so...Christian bale was the only one and first to think.."wait a minute, this guy is supposed to be one of the most well known people on earth, isn't there a chance someone might recognize his voice"?!...
@ oh ya...go watch Christian bale and Cillian murphy screen tests for batman begings...Christopher Nolan said it himself...that Christian bale decided that batman should have a diffrent voice from Bruce wayne...so there's that...
@ lololol..why can't u just admit it..and now u gnna backtrack how many decades..lololol...u SAID it wasn't Christian bale..u said it was the director...I just gave u proof where Chris nolan said it himself that bale decided to do that with the voice...so now u sayin..."it wasn't Christian bale or Chris nolan"...what's wrong with you bro?..how about giving some credit where credit is due...I'm talking about batman incarnations in cinema...before Christian bale and Chris nolan...people didn't take these movies serious...but sure...whatever you say..u know best...sorry for giving my opinion...
Literally the first piece of dialogue is about the sea wall and the first scene has the Batman seeing a bloody footprint of Mayor Mitchell’s son who found him dead providing him the Batman motivation.
Listening to Marc I come to realize we have been spoiled with Comicbook movies. We are just nitpicking at this point. I think he was doing the tango and the movie was doing the waltz. With that said I do generally love his reviews but this one seems a touch off.
Marc seems so joyless, man. I’m glad he loves his family because I’d be worried about him otherwise. I used to think it was a bit in order to counter-balance Kevin’s maniacal love for everything but jeezus fuck, nothing seems to do it for this guy. I’m holding out hope that one day Marc will come on the podcast and be like “I was absolutely blown away by this thing.”
He did. Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse. He said it was an even better superhero movie in that year than Black Panther, and his best movie of that year. He's also really fond of the Fast & Furious franchise, but Kev is like "nah, I won't see it despite the fact that Marc, who is unable to be pleased, loves it".
Haha Marc getting salty towards the end just because people don't like his thoughts on The Batman. His thoughts of course being a list of things he didn't like about The Batman. I'm sure the irony is lost on him.
Man, Marc's takeaway from this film couldn't be any further off. First off, criminals are terrified of Batman. They set that up brilliantly in the introduction so I don't know what movie he was watching. I think Batman's goal is terrify criminals, not the police force. And 2, Batman has no reason to be on the Riddler case or no emotional connection to it? The Riddler is literally leaving clues, specifically for Batman the entire movie starting with the opening crime scene. And Batman has virtually nothing to do with saving the day or solving the case? He literally solves every single riddle in the film including the last one even though he's given help which was very clever since he grew up privileged and wasn't aware of that tool. He still uncovered the Riddler's master plan and saved thousands of people from being executed and drowning at the end of the movie. This was such a weird, uncomfortably biased review of this film. This movie was a masterpiece.
@@v91maximus91v The only thing I can't fault Marc for is not liking his Batman super grounded in reality. If that's not your cup of tea and you'd rather have Batman films be more fantasy laden I totally get that. I just don't agree with any other critique he gave whatsoever.
@@DamienLeone84 but my issue is that most of criticism is like that cinemasins RUclips channel. Or his I wanted things to be this way. It's not actually being critical of the movie for flaws but deconstruction that I think RUclips has become popular for.
I saw it twice opening weekend, and I will see it again. Honestly surprised Kev didn’t love this movie but I guess it isn’t for everyone. I thought Marc would find more to enjoy in this movie. I usually agree with or at least understand Marc’s criticisms but this time it’s like… they both lost me.
Yeah it wasn't for them I guess. Strange for me, too. They seem to be on a mission here to drag the film, and yet a lot of the problems they have are explained in the film (such as Bruce's lack of experience). I saw it twice, loved it both times, really spoke to my senesibilities, picked up more each time, and absolutely adored the look, feel and tone, which felt more honest and emotional than other Batman film before it.
I watched this review in complete bafflement. I'm not that surprised about Marc's opinion at this point, but Kevin...all he's ever talked about is a Batman movie that has him being a detective, and now he is, and he couldn't have cared less.
@@keefriff99 except he didn't really detect anything. He just solved some middle school riddles but did no actual forensics or detective work except I guess getting Selina to use his magic contacts to record faces
@@keefriff99 Right? Can we not just celebrate a hard boiled detective Batman story that's doing really well? I had to stop after 15 mins of them misreading the film entirely. Oh so you knew the riddles but you can't even understand the film? I thought these two were writers...
This movie was incredible. I don't understand the dislike of this amazing movie. Also the film starts setting up the fact that gothams criminals/ crooked cops are terrified of "The Batman". Him in the costume around the police was straight from the comics and you could easily feel the unease! The Batman / Cop scenes were absolutely brilliant 👏🏾. The Riddles were easy so an audience can follow along with the film 🎥 It's still a comic book movie. No fantastical elements? The man is running around the city in a bat costume jumping off of buildings 🤣🤣. Also if he seems green it's because the film clearly states this is his second year crime fighting. Jeffrey Wright was amazing 👏🏾, Zoe was amazing 👏🏾 😍, Colin Farrell ❤️ ate the role alive ! This movie was 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Michael Keaton was the first Batman I ever saw. It is still my favorite to this day because of my youth. But I can recognize that this Batman movie is a better representation of the character
There is one thing you need to play Batman, and that is a strong chin. Every actor has had it - except Michael Keaton. And he's not very charming as Bruce Wayne. Such a strange casting choice. I do like the film, and Kevin will never agree due to his overwhelming nostalgia, but Michael Keaton is not a good Batman. He may be the worst.
I used to love Marc's criticism in the past. Lately he just feels negative. I hope he cheers up, he's a great creative person and I hope he supports other great art in the future.
Ok, maybe this is just me, but this is the worst review I’ve ever heard Marc give. Usually he has pretty nuanced takes, but this “I don’t like it when Batman gets hit, so the movie sucks”. Now, it may not be his cup of tea, and that’s fine, but I just don’t think this was a good critical review on his part
I Understand everyone thinks this is quote on quote “grounded” and real but in my opinion this was the most fantastical Batman I’ve seen the World reminded me of the Arkham Games and the (2004 WB “The Batman” Cartoon) He Literally Uses Grappling hooks to the Upmost decree from the cartoons I loved everything except the spray painting on the floor for no reason lol
What, this video's been posted for 2 hours and there's no comment from time stamp guy? Quick somebody call the commissioner and have him fire up the time stamp guy signal! Where are you timestamp guy we need you!!!
It seems like they glossed over or just missed a lot of what was in this movie. A lot of their criticisms are plainly addressed in the film itself. Kinda surprising how negative they were on it considering how well made it is from a purely filmmaking standpoint.
I felt you can excuse the riddles not being very hard because the Riddler isn’t actually trying to beat Batman at the game - he thinks they’re partners and he’s making inside jokes.
I'm sure I'm not the first person to make this observation, but there's something both comforting and slightly hypnotic about watching Kevin spend the entirety of these in-person podcasts signing stuff for people.
For the Batman fanboy Kevin is he clearly don't know many comic runs about Batman. For heaven sake there is earth one comic where it is said Martha is from Arkham family and she was pretty insane. Which by the way gives us insight to Flashpoint timeline, where Bruce died and Martha became Joker. It really explains that there is possibility that Martha can be insane and she may have passed it to Bruce. Let's be honest no normal man will wear bat costume.
I agree. Didn't feel like 3 hours at all. I was enamored the entire time. Now Rises? I liked it but that feels like 3 hours. And Zack Snyder's JL cut felt like 10 hours. I only watched it so I could watch RedLetterMedia's take on it.
My main gripes: 1. Riddler just got caught because someone saw him. The Batman had nothing to do with it. I was thinking, was this supposed to be like John Doe giving himself up in Se7en? 2. Nobody poses a real threat to the Batman. Bullets bounce off him. Had they started with him getting shot in the chest and dropping him and needing to get a venom shot, it would have made every fight scene mean anything. 3. Same thing Kevin and Marc say here: it's too realistic that the superhero elements are gone.
1) Yes, he absolutely gave himself up. He explains in the Arkham scene that he wanted to be caught because he knew he would be safe in prison when he causes the flood. 2) He literally almost dies and would have if it were not for Catwoman at the end. 3) Could you explain what elements are gone? Because it seems to be like all the elements of Batman are there and more so than ever.
@@spencerloschiavo9888 1. Thanks for the point you raised here. I only watched it once and I missed this until you pointed it out. 2. There was no real threat because every scene he would just go straight and let thugs shoot at him because he's wearing a bullet-proof armor. Remember in Nolan's Batman where he get to choose which armor he wears in a fight? Like a bullet-proof one or one that helps with dogs would carry certain disadvantages on mobility or something. The one you pointed out was at the end. If it had been established in the beginning, it would have worked fine with me. 3. It's too realistic for my taste. I would actually love my Batman to be realistic and not be part of the same DC Universe where there are aliens and stuff. I prefer him fighting thugs, killers, psychos and tech-based criminals. I'd like a good balance of realism and comic book elements. For example, the look of the Riddler. I don't need a comic book accurate look but at least let it have a semblance of the character's look. The bat vehicles could use some comic book style. You're on point on the Batman elements an I'm sure you love the detective part of him that I felt was missing in the previous iterations. That's the part I love most. That and the fact that they didn't have to go back to origin story but revisits that pain through the mayor's son. I love how they convey that message without having to make us sit through another origin scene.
I know! I loved that film! I still rank The Dark Knight higher but what this film does better is the look of Batman with the Cowl and the feel of the city.
This review is bizarre and depressing. I agree shit goes off the rails with the third act, but when this movie is great, its GREAT, and is easily the best live action depiction of the character along with TDK. Was dying to see Kevin Smith’s review of this movie and we just get this wet fart of an episode lol. Im sorry to say this, but if we cant muster some excitement around one of the best Batman movies ever, it might be time to pack it in. I would gladly just listen to Kevin Smith solo covering new shit without Marc “i could do it better” Bernardin dragging the entire production down. Truly disgraceful.
I am beginning to wonder if this duo has lot its dynamism... these guys are just coming off like an old bickering married couple. At least discuss the the intentions of the film. They couldn't even muster a factual review. And these guys probably get to go to premieres and shit. What a waste.
I understand the whole “to each his own” thing, and I don’t usually comment on different opinions about this movie, but I can’t let this slide. Kevin Smith said the first Suicide Squad was dope, and cried at the ending of TDKR, and he bashed this movie? Good day to you, sir…
I'm so confused. You guys loved every single Marvel & DC films coming into this current Batman movie. Kevin has been accused of being a shill for Marvel/Disney/DC. You guys have praised way worse movies than Batman. Kevin, did you complain that Avengers Endgame was too long? It was longer than The Batman. Marc never nitpicked any Marvel movies like he did to this movie. Kevin usually cries for movies, but not this time.
Its crazy, The Batman>>>>>>>>>>>>>endgame. The movie has a soul and its well executed. All of a sudden Kevin and marc became super nitpicky just for this movie.
Avengers Endgame is an epic. It makes sense for it to be long. The only Marvel movie not better than this is Eternals and I'm pretty sure Marc would rip that to shreds.
Are you insane? Endgame was a 11 year build up that involved like 10 different characters. The Batman is like the third different telling of how Batman began. One is funny and action packed. The other is dark and slow. After the Penguin car chase, it’s a movie about catwoman’s daddy issues. Who cares?
Weird that Kevin is so fine with criticizing The Batman but he says that every Star Wars and Marvel product is perfect. Almost like he desperately wants to have ties with Disney. Not to say that I’m angry that he’s critiquing a movie that I like, I just wish he would give everything the same treatment.
@@ThatBrendonGuy Kev says it best "he doesn't really discuss the things he doesn't like". If it seems he loves everything Marvel and Star Wars, it's because he avoids talking about things he dislikes in those franchises. He barely discussed What If..., Star Wars Visions and The Bad Batch, yet loves talking about Wandavision. He didn't really praise Hawkeye or Falcon and Winter Soldier either.
@@DuranmanX Notice for a guy that loves Superman spends a whole lot of time watching and sometimes working for the DCW he never seems to talk about Superman and Lois?
I went to this movie expecting to be underwhelmed but I absolutely loved it. It felt like they got Batman right. It felt like a detective story. Like I was watching Seven. Ironically, the main villians in both of those movies were never caught. They just gave themselves up as part of their plan. I loved that. The fact that the villian was very very smart. Not since heath ledger's joker have we seen a villian dominate so much. I'm actually relieved that these two guys felt the need to nitpick because I've found their taste in other movies quite questionable and the fact that they didn't like this one and I did just means we each have our own lanes of what we think is good cinema.
As someone who is generally quite lukewarm on comic book films and finds them at most 'fine', I really like The Batman. It does feel sometimes like Marc goes out of his way to find stuff he doesn't like.
Marc literally will never call a DC film a good film. He just likes shitting on things, literally started talking by saying “I really liked it” then said not one positive thing about it. All I’ve seen is good reviews about the film and I really liked it. Batman isn’t a property that is supposed to be joyous.
I have to say: this is the most shocking and most disappointing reviews of a fantastic movie. It seems like even Kevin got sucked into overly critical. This movie was amazing. I couldn’t disagree more with these guys and I think this is a first.
I think Marc lost the point in the movie. I love Marc and he gives smart and well educated opinions on movies. But sometimes his critical mind is too much in play. There was a lot here I disagreed with. But to list so would miss the point. Marc's opinions are his and I don't aim to change those. But I'm sorry he couldn't enjoy the film on the level I did.
I was excited to hear their reactions. Marc’s criticism is the same material I’m sure he will use for his episode. Been a Batman fan since 89. This is the best Batman ever !!
Regarding The Batman’s opening weekend box-office (to correct what Marc said): It's the best opening of 2022 and the second best of the pandemic, though it's more than $100 million shy of “Spider-Man: No Way Home's” still unbelievable $260 million opening weekend in December.-Fortune Magazine
I think he mixed up Batman's opening day and Spider-Man's opening day. I haven't watched the rest of the show but I'm a bit tickled that Bamfman didn't correct them. 😅 (Also, it was a good movie. It's riskier than NWH. But that kind of movie rarely becomes a smash hit. It's too brainy for regular moviegoers, and too simplistic for art house fans.)
Was looking for that correction. $260 million for Batman (Worldwide). $253 million for No Way Home (only DOMESTIC) Crazy difference. Having a hard time finding Spiderman Worldwide opening weekend number however. Very curious.
I like and respect Kevin and i'm sure Marc is a great guy but damn they had bad takes about this movie lol. They also mentioned that they both watched this movie 2 times but yet they missed plot points that were pretty easy to catch on even on a first viewing. I know everyone has an opinion but damn a lot of stuff that they said were just bad
Also the point of the riddles isnt to be complicated. Remember the Riddler thinks him and Batman are allies. The riddles are hard for the common man..or a man with a bomb around his neck lol
The riddler was a dork in this movie...just one of the many weak ass villains in this version of Batman. I wasn't sure if it was a Batman/Blair witch project mashup or not. Garbage imo.
@Brandon W so why even use riddles? Just Poor writing …and what was his goal? Flood Gotham? And have some random dudes with rifles shoot at politicians? Stupid. And Batman needs help figuring out the most simplest “riddles” and doesn’t even solve the one at the end. Just poor.
@Brandon W when does Batman ever do that? That’s not even in his character. Batman is suppose to be an enforcer. Batman is suppose to use stealth. It’s the little details like that, that enhances a movie. Those little character traits.
@Brandon W just because it’s “based on real life” doesn’t mean the writing cannot be poor. There have been movies in all of Hollywood that have been based on “true stories” and the movie adaptation is terrible and poorly executed.. And some of the things in this movie from a logical stand point doesn’t even make any sense. The true riddler in the comics is a intellectual genius. And the riddles in this movie came off as an insult to Him. Same with Batman. Batman is the greatest detective but this movie almost insults it with the things that happen in this movie.. Don’t get me wrong movie looks great and is shot well, but plot wise, character wise. It’s almost insulting , and frustrating.. and I get it he’s in “year two” or whatever but that doesn’t mean he’s an idiot or can’t figure out the simplest things.. Bale was literally year Zero in Batman begins and is Portrayed much smarter than this iteration..
To be honest, after this Marc review, I don't care anymore about what he feels about any movies. The batman was amazing, and if Marc can't see that, it's his loss
One thing that I think should be praised more in this review is how tremendous the score is. Pairing Nirvana with Batman was to quote Kevin “So fucking metal”
And having the Darth Vader theme played repeatedly over Batman's cool entrances made me laugh. Seriously, does anyone care these days about such obvious theft...?
@@renobutters man, two notes played with sorta similar rhythms ≠ plaigarism. if we were that nitpicky, there's only 42 note combinations like that in existence lmao
@@zchelmerjoashgamboa7366 I've seen articles mentioning the uncanny similarity. I'm not alone in this. Then again you could say Williams can't complain because he took waaaay too much inspiration from Gustav Holst's Mars for this song and a few others. And it was also still under copyright at the time (I believe it expired in 1984.)
They watched it twice, and still didn't get what the movie is about? And this podcast started as a Batman podcast? At this point, Marc has become irrelevant, his opinions seem like just an attempt to shit on everything. It's as bad as Kevin just loving everything, especially the Stars Wars and Marvel stuff, where he raves about boring shows just because it's Star Wars or Marvel, even if the writing is just terrible. I mean, Marc has a problem with Batman being a detective in this movie, maybe he shouldn't be writing an episode for a Batman show
These guys missed the point completely. This was year 2 of Batman. He didn’t have his voice, his Batmobile was crude and the Bruce Wayne character hasn’t been developed. Of course he’s “real” at this point. I loved the third act personally: it brought Gotham into the movie as a character. I loved, loved this movie.
I think it was clear that this Batman was in his second year and thats why he wasn't the amazing detective/crime fighter Marc expected. Hence why he seemed more real and grounded. Also to Kevin's point I also was mad everytime Bruce was shitty to Alfred 😂.
@@sash9249 no he wasn't....He literally wouldn't have been able find out Riddler's endgame if it wasn't for that cop randomly bringing up the carpet tool..
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Wat up silent bob?!
@Kevin Smith - You should be embarrassed of yourselves... Just announcing to the world how LITTLE you know about Batman. FAKEST. "NERDS". ON. THE. INTERNET.
Mark sucks Kev he was awesome pre pandemic before he joined the cool guy club
Congrats on the comics!
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Hero
I love Kevin but his videos are all over the place. Came for the topic in the title, talks about almost anything else it seems
You’re doing gods work
I'd say the Batman talk starts at 30:40
49:55 All of this was in the movie. The end of the movie was all about how him just going around being Batman beating people up got him in this giant mess. He saw that inadvertently he had created the Riddler and his goons with his actions. Earlier in the movie, the lady running for mayor straight up told him to his face at the funeral that Bruce Wayne wasn't doing anything and he could be doing more, which at the time he took as "Lady, if you only KNEW I'm Batman..." but now, by the end, he understood what she meant, that not only does he need to be Batman, he also has to be Bruce Wayne, which I'm sure will be the focus of the next movie. It was all pretty straight forward, not sure how they missed it. Also, the new Batmobile was awesome.
Yeah, I feel like they both missed some scenes, at least Kev has the excuse that he was probably a little baked . There are lots of little bits of dialogue and small scenes throughout that fill in gaps that Marc had issues with. Not that it invalidates his criticism but some of his gripes make no sense to me because they explicitly cover some of it in the film. Like sometimes too expository.
Like for Selina, she was a cat burglar/thief the whole time, seemed pretty clear but Marc didn't see it. She was working at the Iceberg to case the joint which would serve the dual purpose of fucking over Falcone who she was angry with as a deadbeat dad (Not realizing at that point that he had strangled her mother) and getting herself rich. Later she mentions fleecing hedgefund managers and it sounds like a common occurrence for her. She is a grifter and a thief making her way in the world.
I always enjoy these guys take on genre shows and films but often I feel they get hung up on one thing and then check out for the rest,
I took the "you're not doing enough" scene as her also being corrupt by blatantly fundraising at a funeral, which made her character even more confusing by the end when she's positioned as like, the moral center of the movie.
@@librarygary1618 she did it at the funeral because she literally couldn't reach him any other way
So glad someone else saw the same movie I did.
I like how you literally time stamped when they talked about it, and then conclude in the end that they 'missed it'. They literally talked about it, they didn't 'miss' it. Apparently people who watched a 3 hour film twice knew more about it than someone who can't watch two people talk about it for 20 minutes
MARC: "...who can fight... kind of OK..."
I'm not sure if Marc saw the same movie I did because Batman fucks people up in this movie. Just take the first fight alone, with the leader, the way he dismantles the man's attack and destroys his life - and face. He goes into a club and fights off a bunch of thugs like brushing away flies. In one shot, he systemically disarms like 4 armed men and proceeds to club them with their own guns. Even Gordon got clocked with a "pulled punch" and complained. WTF Marc?
He's trying too hard to be different
Batman in the movie fought like a crazy teen girl.
He’s trying to be that guy go against the crowd that likes it I’m listening to him talk and at least Kevin understood a lot of it idk what Marc watched saying seven is a Batman movie make me laugh
Y'all too salty. He didn't like it, Batman is depicted as an acrobatic brute of a man, and brute was all he was in this film, in terms of fighting. Granted, none of them stood a real chance. He could do a flip or trip someone or use the cape to blind someone but I think what Marc says is something to the notion of It's basically Daredevil, not Batman, there's nothing Batman about how he fought, when he nailed the dude on the stairs with the pipe before he could shoot, all I thought of was Cox's Daredevil... but there's time for that to come as we await another sequel for a Batman trilogy.
@@uncharted9097 dude s trying too hard to be smiths counter. If he agreed with everything smith says, theres no point in him being in the show seeing as hes significantly less interesting than smith.
First time where I fundamentally disagree with both of their criticism on a movie.
The sea wall issue is referenced multiple times throughout the movie, so I don’t understand how it “comes out of nowhere”.
Бat-tism
When was it referenced?
no it wasn't
The movie sucked. You're child
@@Remiddi The opening scene, at several points in the background, It rains the entire movie and mentions of possible flooding in the background, maps of the sea wall appear, the renewal fund mentions cover it.
Good to see most people in the comments are agreeing kev and Marc seemed to have seen a different Batman movie than the rest of us
Their movie reviews honestly….generally always suck.
@@WhipahSnapah Yeah they've seriously declined over the years. The show gets in the way a lot of a good detailed review I think. Kev should go back to doing a whole video dedicated to his reviews.
The credibility of the review went right out the window when Kevin asked for a post credit scene with Alfred and Bruce reconciling. It literally happened in that same exact scene in the hospital and was one of my favourite moments of the movie…
Exactly, theres no logical way that in 2 viewings of the movie they didnt catch that scene. None of their problems with the film seem to make any sense
I agree, I don't want to watch their version of Batman "they wish they got" and I don't like when Marc is like "I see what they we're trying to do" I think they did exactly what they wanted to do with the movie and it worked!! These movies don't need to be ultra and cerebral, they need to be FUN and SIMPLE so the average person can follow and enjoy
The car almost does something?? That was the best intro to a car ever 😂
It was such an amazing chase lol
It was dope but it did look like it stalled for a second 🤣 I reckon he should have just revved some more until letting loose instead of going forward a bit and immediately braking.
@@jazzman7320 it was an intimidation tactic. It didn’t stall.
@@josearrocha3377 finally someone with a brain lol these ppl literally r doing anything to shit on this film
I saw the intro but missed the chase 😭 Had to take a piss break. I loved that it was 3 hours but why couldn't they have inserted just a 10 minute intermission. Well, maximum profits is the answer to that I guess.
@@josearrocha3377 I get that it didn’t stall, watch it again, it lurches forward and brakes hard. I get what they were going for, I really do, just didn’t quite work for me. Just my opinion, it’s okay to have differing ones.
I like how The Batman starts with a guy who detects to just beat the shit out of villains, using fear and darkness to the point that even the people he saves are scared of him too - only to see his Vengence being misread by Catwoman and The Riddler - and he decides turn into the guy who saves people: cutting powerlines, and being the torch in the darkness to guide the helpless. Cops calling him freak start to side with him, and that change starts with saving an orphan boy at his dad's funeral. Batman is the Superman that knows the dark, gets innocent people out of it, and drags criminals into, like Hades of the pantheon.
It definitely could've been stronger, but this one is second only to The Dark Knight (and has fewer flaws then TDK-Rises) to me.
I enjoyed the rain for the flooding building up to that 3rd act. Seven was the filthy city, this gotham is the abyssal tempest.
Dhe moment шhen Chris O'Robin sayz “holy rusted metal, Бatman!!”, dhe mōvie “jumps dhe sharк (repellent)” and veerz toшards dhe old Бatman TV shoш∴ # Death Trap
Very well put.
Agree 100% but I think, for me personally, it's up there with the dark knight.
The flood is representative of a baptismal water to cleanse Gotham of the sins(the corrupt) away in order to lead this horrible town into a new dawn. The 6 going on 7th day of Genesis in the bible. The dawn of man: the birth of Batman and going into the 7th day: the dawn of a new earth( Gotham). The seawall was pointed to in many shots in foreground and background capacity, the nonstop rain and the seawall directly being referred to lead the the wall blowing and the city being flooded after Edward Nashton allowed himself to be captured and invited Batman to his cell in Arkham. He wanted Batman there with him since he saw him as a silent partner and was responsible for inspiring the future Riddler to do what he did in the film.
Like in the comics, Batman is mostly responsible for inspiring his rogues gallery to take action and take the law into their own hands. They often miscontrue and warp his true intentions to fit their crazy ways which give them, in there own minds, a legitimate reason to do what they do.
The 3rd act is a nihilistic individual using social mob mentality throught the overuse of digital technology and using that tech to corrupt the minds of like minded individuals like Edward Nashton to stand up and take the law in their own hands like the Batman. Edward believes this wave or neverending tide of crime and corruption will never quell and will continue to engulf the innocent citizens of Gotham City.
That is why his cult of fanatics, followers, go to Gotham Times Square and try to kill Bella Real the new mayor elect.
Riddler and his army of goons feel like she will end of being just as corrupt and this whole ordeal will begin once more with a new form of Renewal so she has to die to stop this from occurring. Obviously, the machinations and reasoning of a madman and sociopath.
Like earlier on, with Batman stopping the train gang at the begging of the film with his taser finger built into his electroproof suit and later with Batman stopping the Riddlers' goons and Gordon saving Real, his electroproof suit takes the voltage of the wire so all the people in the water below will not get elecrocuted and be killed. He than takes Don Mitchells sons hand( who is symbolic of being a younger bruce) and lead him into a new like after rising from the waters in a form of becoming a new Batman: going from a symbol of vengeance to hope.
The batmobile, based on the 70s comics design of the Batman comics, is using a form of intimidation reminiscent to Stephen king's Christine or the film Bullit to frighten Oswald. It's a flaming beast and a possessed vehichle of primal violence and rage symbolizing who Batman is a this primal warrior, a mystic shaman, in the cape and cowl of the Batman.
This Gordon and Batman relationship is the best
It wasn't the door that was the running joke - it was the bouncers outside. The running joke was that every time you see DUMFREE TWEED and DEEVER TWEED, they get the shit beat out of them and look more and more injured over the course of the movie. Batman beats the shit out of them twice, Catwoman lays them clean out, Bruce Wayne just makes fun of them.... nobody in the MOVIE even takes them seriously, lmfao.
EDIT - In fact, I'm going to take this a step further and say that scenes of Batman walking with slow, heavy steps and knocking on the front door is actually a really cool character moment. Because... technically, it isn't Batman knocking on the door, it's Vengeance. It comes in with no warning, you can't stop it, everybody's either going to shit their pants and run, or get the fuck beat out of them.
This motherfucker is about to clear the entire club out with his fists like he's River Tam, just large as life, in plain sight, not giving a single fuck. Mistakes happen as a result. The next evolution of that character would be, "Hey, if I can just go through this window and interrogate Penguin in his office, I can just save my strength and not have to beat the holy dogshit out of every single poor, dumb motherfucker that just happens to be in the club between the front door and the office, starting with Tweedledee and Tweedledum over here. You hapless dipshits. Do you know who I am?"
And then proceeds to let a drug deal happen right in front of him and does nothing. That's continuity right there
@@padenbang7375 why would Batman be concerned with petty bullshit like drug deals? He’s trying to catch a serial killer.
@@padenbang7375 Use your head. That would've been a terrible way to get info from Selina.
didn't any of you cry to this line on the movie ??
"Our scars can destroy us, even after the physical wounds have healed. But if we survive them, they can transform us. They can give us the power to endure, and the strength to fight."
and your saying Batman is not a symbol of hope ??
This movie is like reading a comic book on the big screen. Of course it’s not perfect, but no Batman movie truly is…It’s a perfect Batman story and I love every second of it.
He’s not fully fleshed out yet, and that’s exciting for the sequels - his overall storyline will be incredible.
I agree. It was so nice to see some detective aspects and I thought all the characters worked very well. While I had no problem with the length, it could have been shorter and not missed out on anything, also Alfred was severely underused. Yeah, definitely not the Batman (or Bruce) that we've seen previously on screen but now we can get to see him become the Batman and Bruce we know. There's too many different versions of Batman out there to ever make a 'perfect' Batman movie.
I'm so glad I got to see the movie last night, then have this drop so I could watch it after. I'd hate to have to avoid this because of spoilers.
@@Elwaves2925 I agree, but at the same time i'm willing to bet that a lot of people won't return to this film once the sequels are out, you know what i mean? Kinda like with the new Planet of the Apes movies :D
@@PezQ84 I can't speak for others but I will be returning to this movie again, just like I've rewatched the new POTA movies multiple times and prefer them to the originals.
This isn't my favourite Batman movie but it does have stuff that I've wanted from a Batman movie for a long time. 🙂
Idk Michelle pfifer in that latex cat woman suite was puuurrtty puurrrfect 🤷🏽♂️😂
@@SolomonRasputin Meow.
I can't say that's the best Batman movie but it is my favourite.
Man Marcs movie better get picked up by a studio and win 10 Oscars. Because His movie snobbery on these other films must mean he's making a masterpiece. Jfc.
@jjjkay30 Haha, yeah I couldn't agree more. Its almost as if, he hates everything.
I get that he had a long list of issues with the film but he literally said he liked it. It’s not snobbery to discuss the parts you didn’t like. That’s how movie discussions fucking work.
Matt Reeves, Robert Pattinson, and the film itself made it pretty clear that this Bruce doesn’t see the need in “Bruce Wayne” right now. He’s full Batman mode for the most part. He doesn’t like to be recognized out in public and wants no part of it. The movie makes that pretty clear. Fun episode though. You guys are the best.
He hasn't figured out that Bruce is an asset to Batmans mission. I think by the end he started to understand that Bruce can do things that Batman can't and that he's going to need to utilize both in their unique ways.
I think they know that, their issue was basically that they didn't get what they wanted - which is fair since it's a big part of the character. I don't agree with them entirely, butI could see their POV on a few things.
@@nicholsonfile Not really imo, they make it clear in the film that Bruce is a well know trauma burdened recluse. Plus this Batman doesn't appear to be loaded. Most times he's on foot or riding a civilian bike in civilian clothes, everything he has looks handmade including the new bat vehicles and signal, and he's not throwing around tech/equipment like its a firesale. It took Gordon 2 years to even SEE the Batmobile in this universe (which is under a tarp at the batcave most of the film), as well as Batman not having an actual Batbike until the end of the film. Batman doesn't even use batarangs, and clearly his suit isn't always pristine like Keaton or Bale's were. This Batman is very obviously much more of an urban legend that not everyone knows about or believes is real, and is more along the lines of it could be anyone in the cowl. It's not like Christian Bale where Batman is clearly rich because everything is clean and he has a new gadget every other week, where everyone knows about and believes in Batman, and Batman is running around loudly using high-grade military technology like his cape, the tumbler, his disruptor, his sonic signal, or a literal prototype military aircraft
It's called character development. It gives Bruce somewhere to go. You'd think two screenwriters would understand the concept lol
Yeah we all get it. It's just not very interesting to watch if there's no Bruce Wayne
The seawall is referenced a few times and you even see it in a shot as well. Third act definitely doesn't come out of nowhere.
It was referenced once, in a throwaway line at the very start of the movie. I guess the nonstop rain also counts in a really subtle way. That really wasn't much of a set up... still a way better movie than these two give it credit for.
But why bother making a big point of it? How often would a damn seawall come up in everyday conversation?
Putting in some random plot point about how the seawall needs repairs or something would have been hokey.
@@keefriff99 chekovs gun
@@keefriff99 I didn't want a big point of it, I just wanted to know it existed more then 30 seconds before it became the finale. It was mentioned so briefly at the beginning that the only reason I caught it on the second viewing was cause I was looking for it BECAUSE I saw the finale. Besides, the constant rain is a good reason to mention the sea walls naturally.
I think they are just jaded film directors. I refuse to believe they both missed this much shit. agenda
Martha being an “Arkham” comes from Geoff Johns’ Batman: Earth One from 2012. Kevin, you had him on your podcast and you guys talked about that aspect specifically…lol
I'm surprised if Kevin remembers something that happened a week ago. 10 years? Never.
@@DuranmanX Kevin has a crazy weird memory sometimes. You’d be surprised. Listening to SModcast and the old Fat Man on Batman and sometimes he pulls out the most obscure memories from like 30 years ago.
@@jakegittes1864 that's normal for most people. They can remember major events from the first 20-30 years of their life, but as they reach their 40s and 50s, their memory tends to worsen. I have grandparents that can barely remember something that happened yesterday but vividly remember things that happened before I was born.
You cant expect Kevin or Mark to have any actual comic knowledge, neither of them does
@@silentbillkelly7276 maybe it's not worth remembering?
The beginning scene of the batmobile reveal I didn’t take it as him fumbling shifting gears. I took it as an intentional intimidation tactic in the car towards them. Like barking before he unleashed on him
Yep
I don’t get how anyone couldn’t get that.
Me too
That's exactly what it was
I had to piss like a racehorse and left right after that part (missed the whole car chase unfortunately) but I thought he was also doing it to create a distraction for Selina to escape.
Ironic how in their reviews, they complain about the lack of fantasy and too “real worldy” the Batman is… yet in the first Q&A Kevin says he doesn’t like Batgirls cowl because her hair comes out the back and that “doesn’t make sense in the real world”
Is that irony?
@@KingRich616 It's not irony but you gotta love the irony of many people claim it, without knowing what irony is.
He also says she wears a wig. But Batgirl doesn't, Batwoman wears a wig.
@@77163 I was going to say this myself but I wasn't 100% certain so I didn't bother.
@@77163 The 1960s TV Batgirl wore a wig. (Red hair, while her own was black.) Perhaps that's what he was thinking about.
These kinda notes from dudes in their 50s is how we end up with 2 hour movies that are nothing but callbacks to older movies and characters explaining why they're about to do what they are doing to each other over and over before they do it
Yeah Kevin is pretty overt about it and it can be frustrating - all he ever wants to see are movies that remind him of other movies. He is honest enough to say he has no imagination - the only casting he can imagine is the same people who have played characters before. He cannot imagine anything new.
Kind of ironic when the best things about this movie remind you of better movies ie Se7en
@@silcoxjakob You gotta really hate batman to see him finally do detective work and be like 'hmmm not very batman tho is it"
I'm guessing you're at the age now where you're old enough to see influences in films for the first time and not just as completely new content in a void, and its upsetting you. Sorry to hear that. All artist have inspirations. Batman is a rip off of Zorro to begin with.
@@dumbedits1760 I like how how you call them old and call me young. Maybe find a better insult
Which is funny when you consider the fact that Kevin's most recent film (Jay & Silent Bob Reboot) and, judging by the trailer, his upcoming film (Clerks III) are almost nothing but callbacks and references to his earlier films. Now, for all I know Clerks III may end up surprising me by actually being _good;_ maybe all those references to the first two movies were just thrown into the trailer to help remind wider audiences of what came before it and it won't just be an hour and a half of tired/recycled jokes, one-liners, and cameos, but based on his output over the last decade, I do not have high hopes.
Sometimes I don’t understand what you guys want. They give him a beautiful character arc and you say you’d rather not stand for hope. Batman didn’t just stand for fear, which he still does, he started out just not caring about people. He wasn’t beating thugs to save anyone. He was doing it for vengeance. For himself. Through his interactions with everyone from the riddler to catwoman to the petty thugs that worked for the riddlers cause to seeing that even good people make mistakes (His father) he sees that people aren’t just horrible but worth saving. The riddler was an amazing interpretation.. HIS VERBAL RIDDLES WERNT MENT TO BE HARD. It’s how he layer out his plan and the cyphers and the fact that he thought Batman was on his side. If he really wanted to confused him he would have. Batman doesn’t have it all figured out. It’s his second year. He’s still a great detective for the experience he has. The cops def are scared of him. I like that most of them are good and are just being hardasses to compensate for being scared about the corruption and the dirty cops they have to work with. So them being in Batman’s face was them trying to act like they got it together. And he knocked on the club door because he literally was there to talk. It’s the thugs trying to do their job and not get fired that ruined it. Batman not special? Just a man in armor? I want to know what you want. He’s dark. He’s brooding. He’s a detective. He’s a fighter. He’s smart. It is the weakest complaint out of them all. … a muscle car that as too much muscle for him? Mark. Hush. Pun intended. I can handle wen people don’t like a movie. But to oversimplify something just to complain seems above you all. Even mark. Who I realize hates on everything.
It honestly feels like they just wanted to hate the movie and found shit to nitpick or ignore. I can't believe they saw it twice. What a waste of tickets.
Its a good movie but its a bad batman movie. Emphasis on batman
@@josuemunoz1993 IT's an amazing Batman movie.
I completely agree with. This guy Marc complaining about Batman being in the film too much always around cops and would complain about him not being Batman in the film too much. Stop it man. Go somewhere and write your own Batman then. For your preferences.
@@parsman9914 agree to disagree
I agree with, amazingly, the rest of the RUclips commenting community here.
Kevin & Marc: I don't understand your criticism, but appreciate your sharing. To me, Bruce & Batman becoming a symbol for hope is inspiring and unique. Superman doesn't have a monopoly on "hope" (see: Man of Steel). This movie humanized the most innately human "superhero" while also showcasing why he's exceptional: his drive and commitment. But, for once, it was shown how this second-to-none drive and commitment could be unhealthy and inspire a criminal to replicate it in their own way. This read, to me, consistently with how he's been portrayed in graphic novels as a young Batman.
And - again, using his comics/graphic novel history as the background here - this drive and commitment are needed because he's NOT gifted with superpowers. He creates those powers for himself. So, Marc: your idea that you hope that the days of Batman being portrayed "accurately" are over doesn't make sense to me - what would you rather his portrayal be? And how would that adaptation be any more compelling? I'm genuinely curious.
The point of Batman is to have the potential to ground him firmly in a place that resonates emotionally, geographically (with Gotham being a realistic analogue to major Western metropolises), and physically as a person fighting to achieve his best self. Robert Pattinson was also in realistic fighting shape - I've seen and heard some fighters talk about how the comic book's "bodybuilder" aesthetic would be unrealistic for somebody who would need intense endurance to continuously fight. So, again, this was a detail that was totally captured with care and accuracy and with deference to his established comic book background.
Campiness is always available, too - I don't think it's a coincidence, though, that most of the most popular graphic novels about him completely eschew the camp for the darkness and grit. So, it's no surprise Matt Reeves/the cast also resonated with this darker, more grounded-while-still-being-pulpy material.
Robert Pattinson's voice also was - again, in my opinion - the epitome of a live-action Batman voice. It strayed from Christian Bale's "monster growling" characterization and instead found the Clint Eastwood-type forceful whisper. And this Western motif was even captured in Michael Giacchino's score with a slight guitar twang in the "The Batman" track.
To me, the beauty of the movie is how it takes Batman back to his pulpy roots of the 1930's and 40's - and paying homage to those characters who inspired him, like Zorro and The Shadow - while still adapting his story to the modern era in a way that's both comic book-y and realistic. Matt Reeves clearly loves the character and what you're choosing to critique are true nitpicks that also sound more like you're making fun of it. And I'm sorry you are missing the forest for the trees with this.
I've been listening to Kevin Smith podcasts for over 12 years. I thought this was by far the best Batman movie in 15 years (I really really dislike the Snyder ones and TDKR didn't really do it for me). This is why when I went into this expecting Kevin to gush, like he always does about DC movies, I was absolutely flabbergasted that this is the one Batman movie where he decides to nitpick. I don't even disagree with some of their points, I just wonder where this critical eye was when the other movies came out? Since it's the internet I feel the need to point out that I am not mad, in my opinion the movie was great and I respect their opinion even if it differs from mine lmao
Man if he lets Marc go first, it can definitely skew his review. Marc will ALWAYS be negative if something isn't super pandering, or if he didn't say he liked it first. For example, he got to see Civil War way before Kevin and he acted like it was the very best marvel movie yet. Not saying it wasn't great, but I can't help but think he'd shit on it if someone else beat him to the punch.
I really miss old-school fatman on Batman.
@@matthewsetters1960 The entiremovie the flooding is hint at.
The Snyder batman is ridiculous
I don't know, Kevin wasn't too thrilled about Batman Begins. He thought it was too serious when he first saw it. So to me it would kind of make sense that these two would be a little put off on a more grounded gritty take.
You people nitpicked BvS...
Also, for the unmasking while unconscious.... Surely the idea is that Gordon was defending him, just as he stepped in to defend him while conscious. DUH.
These are the silliest complaints ever.
But that being said, this was one of the very few points that jostled me out of the movie to be "wait, really they didn't take the mask off?" Especially given a decent number of cops were corrupt and would love to see who is messing with their revenue stream. I still very much enjoyed the flick, but that part really strained the suspension of disbelief.
Unmask Le Truth
And Kevin saying 'he must have been out for at least ten minutes' - if you are knocked unconscious for ten minutes, you are severely brain damaged.
Best batman. Hands down. Actually felt like I was watching a batman film. Loved it. To real worldy?? Gotham was a real corrupt place. It was called new York in the 1920-1970s where the mob literally ran the whole city. And thats where the original inspiration came from. Perfect tone for me. Especially if your fan of the animated series
Thank you my friend, I don’t know what’s up with these guys. Especially Kev with his take, Marc always shits on everything
The mob ran just a club. What are u talking about we didn’t see no crime, no drugs no real crimes only vandalism.
@@tomzar8524 every important politician in Gotham went to that club and heavy hitters were in the vip section of the club. Meaning the whole city was corrupted, Gordon even said he only trusted Batman
The best representation. He was young...angry and trying to control his unbridled power...he was young and raw. As he walked you can feel the anger welling up. They completely missed the concept of this movie
I didn't like how Bruce spoke to Alfred, but I felt it worked from the perspective that Bruce is so under-developed as a person. He focused on becoming Batman....to the extent that he is quite child like as Bruce. He's not considered how to be Bruce Wayne, and he isn't emotionally developed...so he treats Alfred like a sulky teenager. But when he nearly loses him, it shakes him. I feel like in movie two Bruce will be a very different person.
Exactly, and even after almost losing him, given it's the last person he has left he lashes out with the "you lied to me." It's not a script or character flaw, it's an emotional reaction from a suuuuuuper emotionally stunted person..
"no one seems afraid of you" did you miss the opening of the movie 😂 everyone was afraid of him
For the first 5 minutes
And the whole point to him reaching out to the mayor elect to lead them out of the water. No one took his hand until the boy did.
I guess the group of street rats who jumped him in the first 15 minutes didn't get the memo. Oh, and Batman has a hard time beating up those low level thugs. Yeah so scary
@@padenbang7375 Huh? He made easy work of them, enough for some of them to run away if I remember correctly. He caught a couple of punches here and there throughout the movie(which felt consistent to the whole tone in which he was portrayed), but I don't remeber him really struggling with anyone he fought. They probably weren't afraid for the reason you suggested, they didn't know yet, and they were deep.
@@padenbang7375 Tell that to their leader, who needs a new face.
I really like Marc as a person, but generally whenever he reviews ANYthing or does a watch along, it becomes much more of an exercise for him to apply the most basic “rules of screenwriting, day 1, chapter 1” rules toward them, opposed to seeing the whole bigger picture, & it becomes a really surface level insight of his criticisms on ‘moments’ opposed to the whole picture.
I get that he is an upcoming screenwriter, but when you base your entire criteria on what a film has to do, based on the most basic ‘rules’ of ‘how to write a screenplay’ taught by entry level texts, then you will miss what is deeper within the intention of the themes & character motivations that are entangled throughout a films whole runtime, opposed to just within that moment. Because often, when Marc suggests “this is what this scene SHOULD have done, then it will give it THIS particular meaning”. True, it will give THAT moment a particular meaning, while also absolutely contradicting everything that came before it, the writers intention for its existence in the story & where the story is intentionally leading the characters towards the actual theme that is the real journey, opposed to what you want it to be in order to justify its existence & not looking beyond that. Otherwise, you’re criticising the outcome against what you wanted it to do, rather than see what is there & what that means for everything that came before & everything going forward.
It would be nice to see him talk about what he sees as the bigger picture of something that is being said, opposed to his own conclusions that really are surface story beats based on ‘moments’ & analyse further. As any creative writing/drama school/screenwriting class tell their students “these are rules that can be broken, they are not mandatory. You can break the mould & follow the truth of your characters & the story you want to tell”.
*this isn’t just my defence of The Batman, it’s just something that always bugs me every time he breaks down films, which is why he has such a reputation of hating everything, when he doesn’t really. He’s a good guy, just being a bit too ‘I am a writer when I watch things so will instead apply to everything during its runtime what I would of done instead of learn from what another writer is trying to tell (or teach) me”
Yeah i tend to agree with that, I was surprised that their 'review' of the movie was selected scenes and bits they remembered without being too concerned with those overall themes and the story.
He doesn't "want to be a screenwriter," he literally is a screenwriter.
I know this gets used as a straw man to prevent people from criticising anything at all but that isnt how I'm using it: How many Batman shows did you get hired to write for this year? How many Star Trek positions did you have to decline?
The funny thing is -- Marc's stuff isn't that great either. He wrote a Spider-Man comic, and I did not like it at all.
It’s almost as if criticism is subjective and based on the reviewer’s own experiences or something… 😁
@@nicholsonfile I clearly state that I do like Marc. & I do take an interest in his point of view which is why I watch/read it with enthusiastic curiosity when he discusses something. Though I can also notice a pattern & wish for him to change his approach in a new way, as his criticisms of things always come from the same angles, when not all art forms are intended to be viewed through that exact same lens & can often miss the point.
It is okay to disagree & create discussion, as it is what makes for broader insight & what you can take away from it (for better or worse, without anything becoming a personal dislike)
"Well, it's better than any Batman I could make". Kevin literally says something like this every time he doesn't like a movie but doesn't want to overtly shit on it.
I’ve listened to Kev and Marc review live action Batman films for years. In the form of retrospective commentary tracks, trailer reviews, spoiler and non spoiler reviews for the following films…
Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, Batman and Robin, Batman Begins, Batman V Superman, Suicide Squad, Justice League, Zack Snyder’s Justice League, The Batman.
Marc hasn’t been positive about any of them. At a certain point just find a new thing to like my guy
Glad I’m not the only one
Well most of those have rated negatively.....
@@MrML4L I guess my point is, most people are lucky to have one movie about something they are really passionate about. Batman fans get a new one every 3 years basically. And during the Burton and Schumacher films, Marc and Kev would make criticize how stupid and unrealistic they were. And during the Batman begins commentary, they would criticize how serious it tried to be. Same with the Batman where Marc is literally saying there’s no point in him dressing as a bat lol. Too campy, too serious, he just doesn’t seem like he will ever love a Batman movie.
That's why I feel like he was the wrong person to join Fatman on Batman. Kevin is always a ray of sunshine, but Marc brings out this weirdly negative side of him. Maybe it's because Marc is weirdly negative.
Hahahaha he actually gives great reviews tho if the show was just about Kevin giving us a geeky review the show wouldn’t be that good.
Does it seem to anyone else that the audience was not having a good time at all?? The mood completely shifted when they started shitting on the movie
At times it definitely felt as if the audience just wanted to say... WTF movie did you watch!? Lol
Honestly with respect to Marc, I wonder if he’s ever picked up an actual Batman comic.
I hear ya, and it can be hard to listen to negative aspects of the stuff that we love, even more so when its as great as something as "The Batman". But right or wrong, it can be important to be as critical as possible when it comes to this stuff. Its nice to blindly say "I LOVE THIS !!! ", as that ends up being the take I usually have when it comes to pretty much everything, but if we don't have that critical eye, we might end up returning to the times of "eh, who cares if its trash? these idiots will pay to see it anyway". Someone has to keep em on their toes.
@@SDXStudio wow that was a really thoughtful reply. No sarcasm.
Marc doesn’t criticize marvel properties the same way he does DC. He is the reason I stopped following When it was Fatman on Batman.
@@splitint3021 I was exactly the same way. Love Smith but cant stick around because Bernardin is so annoying. He just shits on everything DC and shills out for Marvel.
LOVED The Batman! Saw it four times in the theater. Loved it more each time I saw it.
Say you loved twilight without saying you loved twilight 💀
wow four times
Amazing movie, easily my top 5 movies of all time. These two clowns created the woke He-man show on Netflix, remember that. This is why they can't appreciate the class of The Batman.
@@SolomonRasputin wow. The sexism is strong in this one. So … I’m a woman. Therefore I only saw this because of the lead actor? Nevermind the room in my home dedicated to Batman. Nevermind that I own every GN ever printed. Nevermind my four Batman tattoos. But sure … I’m a chick so I’m here for Robert Pattinson. Cool bro. You better go, your mom is calling you for dinner.
@@SolomonRasputin What an impressively shit take. I've seen the film 5 times, 6 tommorow, and i fucking detest Twilight.
I think the point of the movie was him realizing Gotham does need the help of Bruce Wayne. When Bruce first started being Batman in the comics he didn't immediately embrace the playboy aspect and try to hide his true persona..look at Year One, Phantasm, Arkham Origins, Zero Year, etc...
He's literally a playboy in year one. The models he pays and the skiing accident? Brush up on your reading.
I actually got that in the end him realizing that he needs to be Bruce Wayne in order to be The Batman. He needs to fix the things The Batman can't fix and use his wealth to at least make the people of Gotham even a little at peace.
Where does everyone get that he finds out he needs to be more? Like im just not seeing it from the film. We can project that onto the film, but I don't remember that allusion.
@@seanthomas1552 If you mean more than "vengeance" then the seeds were placed in the intro voice over where he'd been doing it for 2 years and things were getting worse. It was 1st reinforced when he beats up the face-paint thugs and the victim isn't thankful bit wildly afraid of him as well. There's probably a few more beats in there but the Riddler interrogation where Riddler is claiming they're a team and Riddler is just doing the work Batman is and then finally the Riddler-Flunky that he venom-pounds saying he's "vengeance." That moment Batman realizes there's a missing component. He then takes steps towards saving people where it isn't just him punching faces but stopping the electricity, and then when he reaches out in the water the victim actually reaches back. Is that enough?
I'll add he might have also realized he needed to be more than even a hopeful Batman by finding out about the Renewal fund that Thomas Wayne set up with high hopes but then with his murder the fund was literally funding crime. And that funding needed oversight--oversight that might have had an earlier flag planted in the movie where Bruce is told the accountants need to talk to him and the meetings he's dodging. Is that also helpful?
I swear most of Marc's reviews are how come they didn't do what I would have done if I was in charge 😒
His ego keeps writing cheques his resume can't cash.
LoL, True. To be fair to Marc, that's just like how most complaints about Marc's reviews are about how he should have reviewed the movies/shows the way they wanted him to, rather than based on his own point of view as a writer. Turns out everyone is guilty of the "but why don't they see it my way?", whether it is complaining about a movie's direction, or complaining about how someone reviews a movie. A happy ecosystem of criticisms we all participate in once we share our opinions to the public
Yeah, it is sometimes better to judge something based on their vision than viewing flaws as anything that differs from your vision
I know right?? Every review he condescendingly goes on & on about what the superior direction would've been (according to him). I'm just trying to hear what Kevin thought lol
Marc emphasizes his expert opinion over his fan opinion, and Kevin Smith does the opposite. It's like if you have a carpenter and ask him "what do you think about this house?" Chances are you're going to hear a lot about the carpentry and (unless the work is very well done) where/how it needs to be fixed. Smith in this analogy is the carpenter friend who is like "this house has a library with a hidden passage behind a bookcase and that's awesome enough to ignore all the stuff that wasn't done expertly."
Most fans will relate to the latter because, frankly, they've had the good fortune to not have seriously studied the creation process (which always to some extent ruins the enjoyment of the medium.)
Trucks collide and explode on the highway and a muscle car Batmobile comes flying out of the flames and takes down a car. A guy in a Batsuit gets shot point blank in Bat covered armor and uses a gliding suit thru an Urban setting. Recording eye lenses are used to help Batman investigate..I don't see how the fantasy of comics is missing from this film.
It feels like Marc is critiquing the movie while completely missing the point that this Batman is in his mid to late 20s and has only been batman for 2 years. It's like he didn't accept that major point and is saying "yeah but he's not enough like how Batman, the finished article, is supposed to be" as if that isn't the entire point of the movie. It's an origin story about the beginning of his career as Batman, of him BECOMING Batman.
Here's the problem with your line of thought and I've seen it a lot. People assume others are missing that point. They're not, you see it is possible to get that point, and then not like that as direction for taking the story...
@@ThatBrendonGuy exactly
@@ThatBrendonGuy But Marc isn’t saying he didn’t like the direction, he’s saying the direction is a flaw.
@@ThatBrendonGuy he's literally saying "I get it... But that's not batman" and that's literally the entire point of the movie. I'm not saying he doesn't understand it, I'm saying he can't accept it.
I'm with you library gary. In the Nolan films, which are beloved, I seem to remember Bruce not actually being Bruce until he leaves Gotham to go spend time learning about the darker things in life and then spends time with old Raz before coming home to be a very different person. I think it's fine that that aspect didn't work for Marc. But as he marinade on the film he really should start to see a different perspective on his point. If ever there is a storyline where Bruce just wakes up one day is already the all encompassing Bruce we know and love, that should be a time Marc complains.
It’s gotten to the point where I just stopped watching these because Marc never likes a movie
See ya
It gets fucking tiring. His dry, useless opinion that does nothing for me. I’m just here for Kevin
Marc's reviews are unbearable to listen to. It was so much better when Kevin was doing them by himself
The immediate takeaway I got from watching 'The Batman' was that neither Batman nor Bruce Wayne exist yet. "The Batman" is just a symbol of selfish vengeance and Bruce is basically nonexistent. It's not until one of the Riddler's goons says his name is "Vengeance" that Batman realizes that the Riddler is right, that they are the same (just people running around in costumes exacting their own brand of justice to appease no one but their own desired versions of justice), and it's at that moment that he realizes his role needs to be more about helping Gotham than it is about satisfying himself.
And it wasn't until he saw the level of devastation that the Riddler caused, and that the mayor wasn't afraid to be herself, unmasked, in the light of day, that he realized that that was who he needed to be as a Wayne, because he has the means to step up and make sure things get fixed, to help lobby for the right politicians in the city, that his money, while meaning little to him, can mean everything for others.
'The Batman', to me, was Batman and Bruce Wayne's origin stories. By day he would become a philanthropist, and by night he would become a symbol of justice.
I am shocked they missed so much in this movie… Marc always knit-picks, but I strongly disagree with his summary.
Marc acts like he’s the only one that’s allowed to make movies. Dude is so pretentious.
ill tell you what really sucked....that Steven King show Marc helped write for Hulu
cant remember the name...its not important
I was ok with his criticisms, we all have things we want out of something we love. Like Dune was an amazing movie, but I'm such a fan of the source material I could make long list of criticisms. Where Marc lost me was when he said he'd give it a rotten score, which would indicate he disliked it, and that movie was way too good to dislike.
Movie snob Marc better be making a fuking masterpiece with this Splinter film.
@@jasonc379 I mean this is a 60 at best
44:25 I think the reason Batman gets hit and shot during fights is because Reeves and co figured out there is no way of showing Batman fighting 6 people at the same time, without some of them waiting their turn. This is what you see a lot in the Nolan sequels where the goons are waiting for him to turn around or come running at him with their guns instead of just shooting.
Quite surprised just how far Kevin and Marc missed the mark on the Batman. A lot of criticisms they mentioned are referred to in the film. Were they all stoned throughout each viewing?
Jaded perhaps. I definitely got a "We're too good for Batman these days" vibe about the whole thing. This show used to be called "Fatman on Batman" and now it's just "Fatman hating on Batman". Sad.
@@sash9249 Jesus you fans are weird....they didn't like this one piece of Batman media as much as you guys liked it and you guys turn on them...its okay to have different opinions and views...don't take it so hard
@@seanthomas1552 I guess it's not so much turning as not understanding some of the criticisms? At least for me, anyway. I usually appreciate Marc's input even when I don't agree with him at all, I like to hear his insight. But many of the points he and Kevin made here were addressed in the movie. Even silly things like Bruce being mean to Alfred, when the movie clearly shows how Bruce thinks he's above those connections and when Alfred almost dies, he realizes he really was afraid to lose him. Sure, he says Alfred lied, but the scene ends with them holding hands and almost crying about how much they love each other.
They don't have to like the movie as much as I did, I don't really care about that 'cause it's Batman and we all have our favorite versions, but they way they criticized it makes it seem like they missed some key scenes, so I agree with OP on that.
you either die a fan, or you live long enough become a hater
Had to. Marc ripped on it jeeeez!
For someone that usually goes all in on flicks even if they're pretty trash (*COUGH! Rise of Skywalker*), I'm surprised that this is the one for Kev to be a bit hard on. This was the truest comic Batman they've ever put to screen and I dug every aspect of it except *that scene with *you know who at the end. Not bad but just a bit unnecessary and shoehorned in imo.
For a film called 'The Batman' I think it was important that Bruce was almost indistinguishable, the arc was about the realisation that he can do good with more than just fear and brawn. Cast are incredible, cinematography was astounding and Gotham was beautiful in the scuzziest way possible.
Real nice to watch a comic book film where they don't feel the need to spoon-feed you every plot point with exposition and shitty reveals. MORE. OF. THIS. 9/10
Dude, it just wasn’t that good. It’s an ok Batman movie and that’s it.
Liked the rise of Skywalker more than the last jedi
This movie's goal was to actually sway away from the comics and to go be its own thing so you calling it the truest Batman is kinda wrong lol. If you liked it that's fine but it would be incorrect to call it something it wasn't even trying to be, and you can go see what both Pattinson and Reeves said for proof of that
@@Chillycloth absolutely hate it when they try and change it from the comics to some art project. Same with joker. That wasn't joker it was garbage
Keaton's batman was the truest to the comic.
Ah, Marc's ol' reliable "this wasn't the way I would have done it, so it must be bad" form of film criticism.
I haven’t watched it yet but had a feeling this is how he would be lol
I mean look at what he’s written lol
Just what I was thinking. I no longer care his thoughts and opinions on shit. I'm just here for Kev. I would've preferred if this were a Kev and Ralph episode
@@ZeonZakuBrigade Picard is… woof.
Oof!
Man, I used to listen to the early Fatman on Batman episodes and thought I’d come back to see Kevin’s thoughts on The Batman. Looking in the comments, I’m glad I’m not the only one that feels that both Kevin and Marc completely missed the mark on this one. This movie had so much to love and just about all of their mentioned “flaws” are very little nitpicks that make sense given a little more thought. I hope given some time and maybe another rewatch or two they’ll come around to it.
Pattinson does an incredible job as Batman. Jeffrey Wright is hands down my favorite Gordon. I’m excited to see how Zoë Kravitz’s Catwoman evolves. Paul Dano made the Riddler a truly terrifying villain. Colin Farrell’s Oz/Penguin is such a fun character to watch. John Turturro made Carmine Falcone so much more menacing than I expected. And what else is there to say about Andy Serkis other than another perfect performance.
So excited to see where the sequel takes all these characters and the city of Gotham as a whole.
Marc always has had this tendency to nitpick the hell out of most comic book movies of late. I don't remember the last time he universally enjoyed any comic book adaptation. I think his keen eye for writing, narrative detail, and character development is hard for him to shake.
Basically Ben Affleck weren't in it
They remind me of old men, unable to change what they view as "the way". It's like when old people stop listening to new music because they just don't get it.
Their musings on art become tedious and formulaic. Each critique sounds like it should start with "back in my day".
I used to love this show. I watched every week. It's just...harder now.
@@JoeLouis628 the worst batman imo. Batfleck was surhuman. The gravity dosent effect him at all.
Totally agree about the cast but don't forget peter skarsgard as the slimy da he's brief but really good
Didn't they build a statue of Batman at the end of Dark Knight Rises when they thought he was dead. That whole trilogy was about Batman becoming more, becoming a legend. So I don't understand why Batman can not be a symbol of hope in this version of Gotham.
I don’t care about blemishes. This was THE Batman movie to me. We finally got to see the Detective Batman. I f-ing loved this movie.
You mean THE vengeance movie..
He was a better Detective in Batman 89 and BVS.
@@alphanerd7221 You're joking right...
@@SuperTiaanBro No. I just know much more about this than you. In "The Batman" Batman does a lot of detective work but he isn't that great at it. Gordon and Catwoman solve at least as much of the crime as Batman. Even the Penguin chips in.
Meanwhile Batman in BVS finds out Superman's weakness is Kryptonite, finds out where to steal it, and finds out where Luthor is keeping Superman's mom in drastically short order. In Batman 89 Batman finds out the specific chemical combinations killing people and where they are being manufactured.
Do you understand that I am correct now?
I dig Marc as a person and I respect him, but it seems more and more, as time goes on, that he’s a contrarian for the sake of being one. Every time he does a review it’s a laundry list of small things that he acts like are massive issues in a movie. Many times he makes things an issue that aren’t really an issue. It seems a lot of times his problem is that the filmmakers do something that “I wouldn’t have done that. I would have done it like this”, as if doing it any other way is some how the wrong choice and a flaw in a film.
It just feels like every time something comes out that is going to be popular and is widely regarded as a great film once it does always ends up being nit picked to shit by Marc for no other reason other than to set himself apart from all the other people who are saying it great. Even if it’s a movie he really loves he’ll spend so much time finding a thing to complain about and treat like it’s something that could have potentially ruined the movie. Idk maybe it’s just me, but he reminds of that one guy everyone knows who took a couple of film classes or English literature courses and thinks that they see all the things wrong in something that others don’t and will spend the entire conversation explaining what was wrong with it and all the bad decisions and missed opportunities even though there wasn’t really all that much and spends little time talking about what was great and enjoyable.
100% agreed
baTMan (Marc's shirt).. (TM = Trade Mark)
Maybe they should let Marc direct something then and see how that perfectionism plays out :)
Idk man I agreed with most of his point tbh.
He generally has to be because Kevin is so overwhelmingly positive about these things.
I could not disagree more with almost every single take in this review. I mean everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think every observation is way off base. I haven't read as many comics I guarantee... But I can absolutely pinpoint countless comics that were directly referenced in and inspired this film. It seems as if they were looking at it super surface level and not analyzing the choices the film made and just criticizing them just to criticize.
Marc only likes movies that he has written. Dudes a weirdo.
Yeah, I think the movie is good, but I have critiques... just not really any of the same ones they do. Except for maybe the big setpiece spectacle ending. It does feel a little out of place in a purposefully smaller scale approach.. but other than that I think most of what they said is pretty inaccurate
yeah they are just flat out wrong...its almost as if neither of them even paid attention to the movie
They're building Alfred and Batman's relationship. This isn't a fully fleshed out character. This is a beginning. Far more so than Batman Begins lol
Batman begins still did it better for what was shown in a 3hr cut
I'm srry but no...batman begins is classic...the best performance of batman ever....what Christian bale did with his voice in that..people made fun of it at first...now they have batman always gruffing his voice or have some sort of technology to do so...Christian bale was the only one and first to think.."wait a minute, this guy is supposed to be one of the most well known people on earth, isn't there a chance someone might recognize his voice"?!...
@ oh ya...go watch Christian bale and Cillian murphy screen tests for batman begings...Christopher Nolan said it himself...that Christian bale decided that batman should have a diffrent voice from Bruce wayne...so there's that...
@ lololol..why can't u just admit it..and now u gnna backtrack how many decades..lololol...u SAID it wasn't Christian bale..u said it was the director...I just gave u proof where Chris nolan said it himself that bale decided to do that with the voice...so now u sayin..."it wasn't Christian bale or Chris nolan"...what's wrong with you bro?..how about giving some credit where credit is due...I'm talking about batman incarnations in cinema...before Christian bale and Chris nolan...people didn't take these movies serious...but sure...whatever you say..u know best...sorry for giving my opinion...
@@miklovelka6526 ....... ..... ... . . ........... ........... ........ .... ..... ...... ........
Literally the first piece of dialogue is about the sea wall and the first scene has the Batman seeing a bloody footprint of Mayor Mitchell’s son who found him dead providing him the Batman motivation.
The seawall is mentioned as a vital project that would be effected by cutting the Renewal program in literally the first scene.
Listening to Marc I come to realize we have been spoiled with Comicbook movies. We are just nitpicking at this point. I think he was doing the tango and the movie was doing the waltz.
With that said I do generally love his reviews but this one seems a touch off.
He's nitpicky with EVERYTHING, which has made this show a slog to get through.
a touch?
lol it's as if he paid no attention to the film whatsoever
Marc seems so joyless, man. I’m glad he loves his family because I’d be worried about him otherwise.
I used to think it was a bit in order to counter-balance Kevin’s maniacal love for everything but jeezus fuck, nothing seems to do it for this guy.
I’m holding out hope that one day Marc will come on the podcast and be like “I was absolutely blown away by this thing.”
He did. Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse. He said it was an even better superhero movie in that year than Black Panther, and his best movie of that year.
He's also really fond of the Fast & Furious franchise, but Kev is like "nah, I won't see it despite the fact that Marc, who is unable to be pleased, loves it".
Haha Marc getting salty towards the end just because people don't like his thoughts on The Batman. His thoughts of course being a list of things he didn't like about The Batman. I'm sure the irony is lost on him.
There's nothing saltier than internet comments when you dare to have a different opinion to them.
Man, Marc's takeaway from this film couldn't be any further off. First off, criminals are terrified of Batman. They set that up brilliantly in the introduction so I don't know what movie he was watching. I think Batman's goal is terrify criminals, not the police force. And 2, Batman has no reason to be on the Riddler case or no emotional connection to it? The Riddler is literally leaving clues, specifically for Batman the entire movie starting with the opening crime scene. And Batman has virtually nothing to do with saving the day or solving the case? He literally solves every single riddle in the film including the last one even though he's given help which was very clever since he grew up privileged and wasn't aware of that tool. He still uncovered the Riddler's master plan and saved thousands of people from being executed and drowning at the end of the movie. This was such a weird, uncomfortably biased review of this film. This movie was a masterpiece.
I agree. Marc missed key points of the entire movie … Kevin is pretty off too.
I feel like Marc watches a diff movie. Guy is a mess.
@@v91maximus91v The only thing I can't fault Marc for is not liking his Batman super grounded in reality. If that's not your cup of tea and you'd rather have Batman films be more fantasy laden I totally get that. I just don't agree with any other critique he gave whatsoever.
@@DamienLeone84 but my issue is that most of criticism is like that cinemasins RUclips channel. Or his I wanted things to be this way. It's not actually being critical of the movie for flaws but deconstruction that I think RUclips has become popular for.
I saw it twice opening weekend, and I will see it again. Honestly surprised Kev didn’t love this movie but I guess it isn’t for everyone. I thought Marc would find more to enjoy in this movie. I usually agree with or at least understand Marc’s criticisms but this time it’s like… they both lost me.
Yeah it wasn't for them I guess. Strange for me, too. They seem to be on a mission here to drag the film, and yet a lot of the problems they have are explained in the film (such as Bruce's lack of experience). I saw it twice, loved it both times, really spoke to my senesibilities, picked up more each time, and absolutely adored the look, feel and tone, which felt more honest and emotional than other Batman film before it.
I watched this review in complete bafflement. I'm not that surprised about Marc's opinion at this point, but Kevin...all he's ever talked about is a Batman movie that has him being a detective, and now he is, and he couldn't have cared less.
@@keefriff99 except he didn't really detect anything. He just solved some middle school riddles but did no actual forensics or detective work except I guess getting Selina to use his magic contacts to record faces
@@keefriff99 Marc hasn't liked anything since that goofy ass Kaiju movie with Anne Hathaway lol.
@@keefriff99 Right? Can we not just celebrate a hard boiled detective Batman story that's doing really well? I had to stop after 15 mins of them misreading the film entirely. Oh so you knew the riddles but you can't even understand the film? I thought these two were writers...
This movie was incredible. I don't understand the dislike of this amazing movie. Also the film starts setting up the fact that gothams criminals/ crooked cops are terrified of "The Batman". Him in the costume around the police was straight from the comics and you could easily feel the unease! The Batman / Cop scenes were absolutely brilliant 👏🏾. The Riddles were easy so an audience can follow along with the film 🎥 It's still a comic book movie. No fantastical elements? The man is running around the city in a bat costume jumping off of buildings 🤣🤣. Also if he seems green it's because the film clearly states this is his second year crime fighting. Jeffrey Wright was amazing 👏🏾, Zoe was amazing 👏🏾 😍, Colin Farrell ❤️ ate the role alive ! This movie was 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Actually really upset by Marc's take. I loved this movie and came here super excited expecting them to share my love lol. Oh well ...
Kinda sick of Marc shitting on everything and thinking he’s some sort of genius
Yeah he seems the type that would still criticise the godfather for loads of things.
You are so right. Sadly, after years of listening, I unsubscribed today. I’ll listen to Kevin’s other shows, but no longer this one.
Yeh he's seriously bitter. Bizarre guy
Michael Keaton was the first Batman I ever saw. It is still my favorite to this day because of my youth. But I can recognize that this Batman movie is a better representation of the character
There is one thing you need to play Batman, and that is a strong chin. Every actor has had it - except Michael Keaton. And he's not very charming as Bruce Wayne. Such a strange casting choice. I do like the film, and Kevin will never agree due to his overwhelming nostalgia, but Michael Keaton is not a good Batman. He may be the worst.
Well that's false. Keaton's Batman was much more true to the character.
I used to love Marc's criticism in the past. Lately he just feels negative. I hope he cheers up, he's a great creative person and I hope he supports other great art in the future.
I think it's your problem not his
@@KingRich616 you're a 100% right Richard, that's why I didn't ask him to change his negativity.
Ok, maybe this is just me, but this is the worst review I’ve ever heard Marc give. Usually he has pretty nuanced takes, but this “I don’t like it when Batman gets hit, so the movie sucks”. Now, it may not be his cup of tea, and that’s fine, but I just don’t think this was a good critical review on his part
The Batman is only 11 minutes longer than The Dark Knight Rises and no one was throwing a hissy fit then
If ur entertained by the film then run time is irrelevant
I Understand everyone thinks this is quote on quote “grounded” and real but in my opinion this was the most fantastical Batman I’ve seen the World reminded me of the Arkham Games and the (2004 WB “The Batman” Cartoon) He Literally Uses Grappling hooks to the Upmost decree from the cartoons I loved everything except the spray painting on the floor for no reason lol
lol the spray painting the floor was pretty dumb. I loved the movie...
Lol! Yeah, multi-billionaire who hasn't heard of a white board 🤣
@@nybakg When you have more money than god, spray painting your floor is no different
Marks episode of his new Batventure better be sublime the way he’s trying to kill this movie.
I’d love or it to be an episode of batman instantly solving hyper convoluted riddles
What, this video's been posted for 2 hours and there's no comment from time stamp guy? Quick somebody call the commissioner and have him fire up the time stamp guy signal! Where are you timestamp guy we need you!!!
i endorse this
It seems like they glossed over or just missed a lot of what was in this movie. A lot of their criticisms are plainly addressed in the film itself. Kinda surprising how negative they were on it considering how well made it is from a purely filmmaking standpoint.
I felt you can excuse the riddles not being very hard because the Riddler isn’t actually trying to beat Batman at the game - he thinks they’re partners and he’s making inside jokes.
It honestly feels like the movie didn't do exactly what y'all wanted so you critique things without examing the film fully
I'm sure I'm not the first person to make this observation, but there's something both comforting and slightly hypnotic about watching Kevin spend the entirety of these in-person podcasts signing stuff for people.
Every movie including seven can be picked apart into ridiculous scenes and plot holes.
In my opinion, this is the best Batman yet.
Exactly, this is 100% nitpicking
It’s a bad movie just deal with it
@@tomzar8524 luckily there is enough movies for both of us to enjoy :)
@@tomzar8524 you probs liked Batman v Superman
@@tomzar8524 you prob liked batman and robin
For the Batman fanboy Kevin is he clearly don't know many comic runs about Batman. For heaven sake there is earth one comic where it is said Martha is from Arkham family and she was pretty insane. Which by the way gives us insight to Flashpoint timeline, where Bruce died and Martha became Joker. It really explains that there is possibility that Martha can be insane and she may have passed it to Bruce.
Let's be honest no normal man will wear bat costume.
I love that plot line from Earth One…Makes all the sense in the world.
Who the fuck has read that?
Man. If only we could get a 4hr cut. Loved this movie.
I'm looking forward to the 90 minute cut
I agree. Didn't feel like 3 hours at all. I was enamored the entire time. Now Rises? I liked it but that feels like 3 hours. And Zack Snyder's JL cut felt like 10 hours. I only watched it so I could watch RedLetterMedia's take on it.
😍😍 I can’t wait for the bts
My main gripes:
1. Riddler just got caught because someone saw him. The Batman had nothing to do with it. I was thinking, was this supposed to be like John Doe giving himself up in Se7en?
2. Nobody poses a real threat to the Batman. Bullets bounce off him. Had they started with him getting shot in the chest and dropping him and needing to get a venom shot, it would have made every fight scene mean anything.
3. Same thing Kevin and Marc say here: it's too realistic that the superhero elements are gone.
"it's too realistic that the superhero elements are gone."....and yet Kev praises Nolan's Batman films...
1) Yes, he absolutely gave himself up. He explains in the Arkham scene that he wanted to be caught because he knew he would be safe in prison when he causes the flood.
2) He literally almost dies and would have if it were not for Catwoman at the end.
3) Could you explain what elements are gone? Because it seems to be like all the elements of Batman are there and more so than ever.
@@spencerloschiavo9888
1. Thanks for the point you raised here. I only watched it once and I missed this until you pointed it out.
2. There was no real threat because every scene he would just go straight and let thugs shoot at him because he's wearing a bullet-proof armor. Remember in Nolan's Batman where he get to choose which armor he wears in a fight? Like a bullet-proof one or one that helps with dogs would carry certain disadvantages on mobility or something. The one you pointed out was at the end. If it had been established in the beginning, it would have worked fine with me.
3. It's too realistic for my taste. I would actually love my Batman to be realistic and not be part of the same DC Universe where there are aliens and stuff. I prefer him fighting thugs, killers, psychos and tech-based criminals.
I'd like a good balance of realism and comic book elements. For example, the look of the Riddler. I don't need a comic book accurate look but at least let it have a semblance of the character's look. The bat vehicles could use some comic book style.
You're on point on the Batman elements an I'm sure you love the detective part of him that I felt was missing in the previous iterations. That's the part I love most. That and the fact that they didn't have to go back to origin story but revisits that pain through the mayor's son. I love how they convey that message without having to make us sit through another origin scene.
Jesus, these guys relentlessly bashing “The Batman” was not on my bingo card
I know! I loved that film! I still rank The Dark Knight higher but what this film does better is the look of Batman with the Cowl and the feel of the city.
This review is bizarre and depressing. I agree shit goes off the rails with the third act, but when this movie is great, its GREAT, and is easily the best live action depiction of the character along with TDK. Was dying to see Kevin Smith’s review of this movie and we just get this wet fart of an episode lol. Im sorry to say this, but if we cant muster some excitement around one of the best Batman movies ever, it might be time to pack it in. I would gladly just listen to Kevin Smith solo covering new shit without Marc “i could do it better” Bernardin dragging the entire production down. Truly disgraceful.
Completely agree
I am beginning to wonder if this duo has lot its dynamism... these guys are just coming off like an old bickering married couple. At least discuss the the intentions of the film. They couldn't even muster a factual review. And these guys probably get to go to premieres and shit. What a waste.
How often do we need to hear about his super secret projects he's working on? You're not impressing anyone.
"i need more fantasy but i dont know why Bruce is wearing a mask" come on Mark, don't be stingy
It's harder and harder for Marc to move the goalposts to get any credibility to his criticisms, ridiculous
He hopped on the “this Joker movie could be dangerous” train so you gotta use some skepticism.
How dare he have his own thoughts!
"This movie is Batman's second year. He's a rookie." - the movie
"I WANT HIM TO BE UNTOUCHABLE AND PERFECT." - Marc
ANOTHER BATMAN ORIGIN MOVIE. Just admit these writers are fuccing lazy
I understand the whole “to each his own” thing, and I don’t usually comment on different opinions about this movie, but I can’t let this slide. Kevin Smith said the first Suicide Squad was dope, and cried at the ending of TDKR, and he bashed this movie? Good day to you, sir…
I'm so confused. You guys loved every single Marvel & DC films coming into this current Batman movie. Kevin has been accused of being a shill for Marvel/Disney/DC. You guys have praised way worse movies than Batman. Kevin, did you complain that Avengers Endgame was too long? It was longer than The Batman. Marc never nitpicked any Marvel movies like he did to this movie. Kevin usually cries for movies, but not this time.
Its crazy, The Batman>>>>>>>>>>>>>endgame. The movie has a soul and its well executed. All of a sudden Kevin and marc became super nitpicky just for this movie.
Avengers Endgame is an epic. It makes sense for it to be long. The only Marvel movie not better than this is Eternals and I'm pretty sure Marc would rip that to shreds.
@Col. Gene Fans loved that series.
@Col. Gene Work on your English if you want respect.
Are you insane? Endgame was a 11 year build up that involved like 10 different characters. The Batman is like the third different telling of how Batman began. One is funny and action packed. The other is dark and slow. After the Penguin car chase, it’s a movie about catwoman’s daddy issues. Who cares?
Weird that Kevin is so fine with criticizing The Batman but he says that every Star Wars and Marvel product is perfect. Almost like he desperately wants to have ties with Disney. Not to say that I’m angry that he’s critiquing a movie that I like, I just wish he would give everything the same treatment.
He criticized Thor the Dark World and Eternals though
@@ThatBrendonGuy Kev says it best "he doesn't really discuss the things he doesn't like". If it seems he loves everything Marvel and Star Wars, it's because he avoids talking about things he dislikes in those franchises. He barely discussed What If..., Star Wars Visions and The Bad Batch, yet loves talking about Wandavision. He didn't really praise Hawkeye or Falcon and Winter Soldier either.
You might want to go back and listen to some reviews. You're actually very wrong 🤣
@@DuranmanX Notice for a guy that loves Superman spends a whole lot of time watching and sometimes working for the DCW he never seems to talk about Superman and Lois?
I went to this movie expecting to be underwhelmed but I absolutely loved it. It felt like they got Batman right. It felt like a detective story. Like I was watching Seven. Ironically, the main villians in both of those movies were never caught. They just gave themselves up as part of their plan. I loved that. The fact that the villian was very very smart. Not since heath ledger's joker have we seen a villian dominate so much. I'm actually relieved that these two guys felt the need to nitpick because I've found their taste in other movies quite questionable and the fact that they didn't like this one and I did just means we each have our own lanes of what we think is good cinema.
As someone who is generally quite lukewarm on comic book films and finds them at most 'fine', I really like The Batman. It does feel sometimes like Marc goes out of his way to find stuff he doesn't like.
That’s bc it’s not really a comic book movie
Yeah, i think that Marc not liking that batman got punched is an odd criticism
Marc literally will never call a DC film a good film. He just likes shitting on things, literally started talking by saying “I really liked it” then said not one positive thing about it. All I’ve seen is good reviews about the film and I really liked it. Batman isn’t a property that is supposed to be joyous.
I have to say: this is the most shocking and most disappointing reviews of a fantastic movie. It seems like even Kevin got sucked into overly critical. This movie was amazing. I couldn’t disagree more with these guys and I think this is a first.
I think Marc lost the point in the movie. I love Marc and he gives smart and well educated opinions on movies. But sometimes his critical mind is too much in play. There was a lot here I disagreed with. But to list so would miss the point. Marc's opinions are his and I don't aim to change those. But I'm sorry he couldn't enjoy the film on the level I did.
Yeah, The point is that there is no Bruce Wayne. He IS Batman. He needs to find who Bruce is now.
Yes and their point is it doesn't make for an interesting character
I was excited to hear their reactions. Marc’s criticism is the same material I’m sure he will use for his episode. Been a Batman fan since 89. This is the best Batman ever !!
Michael Кeaton > michael caine
@@BrosephComrade Chris O'Donnell > Michael Keaton
@@DoooBeeDoooBeeDooo >"Titans" (2018 TV Series)
No Chris O'Donnell, no buy..
@@BrosephComradeClooney Bat Credit Card > Michael Keaton.
Regarding The Batman’s opening weekend box-office (to correct what Marc said):
It's the best opening of 2022 and the second best of the pandemic, though it's more than $100 million shy of “Spider-Man: No Way Home's” still unbelievable $260 million opening weekend in December.-Fortune Magazine
I think he mixed up Batman's opening day and Spider-Man's opening day.
I haven't watched the rest of the show but I'm a bit tickled that Bamfman didn't correct them. 😅
(Also, it was a good movie. It's riskier than NWH. But that kind of movie rarely becomes a smash hit. It's too brainy for regular moviegoers, and too simplistic for art house fans.)
Was looking for that correction. $260 million for Batman (Worldwide). $253 million for No Way Home (only DOMESTIC) Crazy difference. Having a hard time finding Spiderman Worldwide opening weekend number however. Very curious.
@@madisonmarek3172 I think that might be either hard t find or screwed because SM might have opened overseas first
I like and respect Kevin and i'm sure Marc is a great guy but damn they had bad takes about this movie lol. They also mentioned that they both watched this movie 2 times but yet they missed plot points that were pretty easy to catch on even on a first viewing. I know everyone has an opinion but damn a lot of stuff that they said were just bad
The Kevin Smith ‘The Batman’ Review: From the guy who brought you “I ADORED Suicide Squad 2016”
Also the point of the riddles isnt to be complicated. Remember the Riddler thinks him and Batman are allies. The riddles are hard for the common man..or a man with a bomb around his neck lol
The riddler was a dork in this movie...just one of the many weak ass villains in this version of Batman. I wasn't sure if it was a Batman/Blair witch project mashup or not. Garbage imo.
@@Awholekit yup and Batman was a complete idiot in this movie that times. Knocking on doors? Really?
@Brandon W so why even use riddles? Just Poor writing …and what was his goal? Flood Gotham? And have some random dudes with rifles shoot at politicians? Stupid. And Batman needs help figuring out the most simplest “riddles” and doesn’t even solve the one at the end. Just poor.
@Brandon W when does Batman ever do that? That’s not even in his character. Batman is suppose to be an enforcer. Batman is suppose to use stealth. It’s the little details like that, that enhances a movie. Those little character traits.
@Brandon W just because it’s “based on real life” doesn’t mean the writing cannot be poor. There have been movies in all of Hollywood that have been based on “true stories” and the movie adaptation is terrible and poorly executed.. And some of the things in this movie from a logical stand point doesn’t even make any sense. The true riddler in the comics is a intellectual genius. And the riddles in this movie came off as an insult to Him. Same with Batman. Batman is the greatest detective but this movie almost insults it with the things that happen in this movie.. Don’t get me wrong movie looks great and is shot well, but plot wise, character wise. It’s almost insulting , and frustrating.. and I get it he’s in “year two” or whatever but that doesn’t mean he’s an idiot or can’t figure out the simplest things.. Bale was literally year Zero in Batman begins and is Portrayed much smarter than this iteration..
To be honest, after this Marc review, I don't care anymore about what he feels about any movies. The batman was amazing, and if Marc can't see that, it's his loss
One thing that I think should be praised more in this review is how tremendous the score is. Pairing Nirvana with Batman was to quote Kevin “So fucking metal”
It's not often that you see Nirvana compared to 'metal.'
And having the Darth Vader theme played repeatedly over Batman's cool entrances made me laugh. Seriously, does anyone care these days about such obvious theft...?
@@renobutters man, two notes played with sorta similar rhythms ≠ plaigarism. if we were that nitpicky, there's only 42 note combinations like that in existence lmao
I thought a Trent Reznor score along with 1 Nine Inch Nails song would have fit just as well, but what we got was really good.
@@zchelmerjoashgamboa7366 I've seen articles mentioning the uncanny similarity. I'm not alone in this.
Then again you could say Williams can't complain because he took waaaay too much inspiration from Gustav Holst's Mars for this song and a few others. And it was also still under copyright at the time (I believe it expired in 1984.)
you guys literally solved the riddles that were in the trailers LOLOLOLOL great complaint!
37:20 The Batman review starts
This entire conversation makes me want to not listen to this podcast anymore.
Yup! I unsubscribed.
They watched it twice, and still didn't get what the movie is about? And this podcast started as a Batman podcast?
At this point, Marc has become irrelevant, his opinions seem like just an attempt to shit on everything. It's as bad as Kevin just loving everything, especially the Stars Wars and Marvel stuff, where he raves about boring shows just because it's Star Wars or Marvel, even if the writing is just terrible.
I mean, Marc has a problem with Batman being a detective in this movie, maybe he shouldn't be writing an episode for a Batman show
These guys missed the point completely. This was year 2 of Batman. He didn’t have his voice, his Batmobile was crude and the Bruce Wayne character hasn’t been developed. Of course he’s “real” at this point. I loved the third act personally: it brought Gotham into the movie as a character. I loved, loved this movie.
But...isn't that counter to what Batman should be? He should also start as a myth...not something tangible and real.
@@seanthomas1552 you can't just make a myth. You have to build it up in the back of their minds
I think it was clear that this Batman was in his second year and thats why he wasn't the amazing detective/crime fighter Marc expected. Hence why he seemed more real and grounded. Also to Kevin's point I also was mad everytime Bruce was shitty to Alfred 😂.
He was still the smartest guy in the room, and the film showed that, too.
@@sash9249 no he wasn't....He literally wouldn't have been able find out Riddler's endgame if it wasn't for that cop randomly bringing up the carpet tool..