I first tried it in Arlon on my way back from Luxemburg to Brussels. My train got 1 hour delayed and it started raining. I was so frustrated and tired. So I sat outside of a bar next to the station and ordered this tasty beer recommended by the cute waitress. And also there was a very special person accompanying me. In the end I realized this 1 hour of delay made a very beautiful memory. Thank you Orval, thank you Belgian railway system, thank you waitress and thank you special person for being there with me on that day.
I actually have plenty of bottles from 2013 and I can say a 9 year old Orval is really an experience out of this world it is amazing and probably my most favourite I ever had it really developed each year and really is a rollercoaster but one I enjoy hopping on.
For me this is the reason I give Orval the best beer in the world accolade. You can drink it young, aged, very cold and even lukewarm it still tastes of beer, but with varying characteristics.
The same goes with dozen other types of beers: quads, barley wines, lambic, imp. stouts, etc. Does aging mean that a certain beer is the best in the world ? 😅
I just had one 1,5 years old. It really tasted "au point"! I just love my little Orval. Living in Belgium it make it easy to buy a lot and "try" to age it. I end up drinking them sooner than planned though. Cheers
Speaking of aged beers, I drank a four-year-old Trappistes Rochefort 10 last year and it was out of this world. Strong Belgian dark ales tend to age very well.
Both Beermoth Cellar and Port St Beer House in Manchester both did old bottles of aged Orval for Orval day this year. Think I had 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, and 2013 between the two along with orval cheese at PSBH and gouda at Beermoth iirc. Amazing how every vintage tasted different.
"Brewed on the 10th of December 2015" --> Oh, you tasted one of my favorite beer in the world... Actually brewed on my birthday! Lucky you guys. And very good video, as always 👌
I came along to the Tap for Orval Day - had a great time. I'd never actually had orval before but I had a fresh one and a 3 year (with amazing cheese). I don't know if this is sacreligious; but my favourite was actually a blend of the two!
I remember buying a few Rochefort 8s a couple of years back and kicking back. The second one I opened was immensely better than all of the others... Much more flavour and body. When I looked at the label, it said that it was almost off. The others were 'fresher'. I think trappist beers ought to be aged a little for maximum appreciation.
Some of the dark Trappists are fantastic when aged, but only when aged well. They need to be stored cool and away from light. Tripels don't age so well as far as my experiments go.
orval is my favourite of the beers i know, on top of westmalle tripel and the rocheforts huit & dix. the most aged i've had was nine years, and to me that's well worth the wait. then it's no longer a beer you'd shower over a passing cyclist. complexity and character, and quite elegant. nothing like it, i deem.
Had about 60 Orval in the last 12 months. 6 weeks to 12 years old. At the Abbey, in Belgian cafes and az home. Still reasonably drinkable at 10 years, but 12 oxidised to sherry. My best is 1-3 years at cellar temperature. Below 1 year and above 3 its s bit unpredictable.
Orval would get my vote for best widely-available beer in the world. Westvletern 12 would have to take #1 for me though. Unfortunately, Westy is hard to get here in California (have to order directly from Belgium).
I learned that Belgian breweries, by law, are required to put a "Best By" date code on their packaging while "Bottled On" dates are simply a convenience and at the sheer discretion of the brewery. The reason? The "Best By" date assigned to each beer (as determined by the brewery) is the date at which they anticipate the yeast from bottle refermentation dying off. Dead yeast no longer flocculate and get roused into suspension with minimal agitation to the bottle. This leads to a cloudy/chunky looking beer which is not a desired attribute for Belgian beers. The beer has certainly not spoiled, it is simply an indication that after the "Best By" date you might find a lot more yeast in your glass after decanting. Generally (and Belgian specific), Brett-refermented beers are given a 5-year shelf life with other refermented beers with saccharomyces cerevisiae given a 2-3 year "Best By" date. However (and my personal, all-time favorite beer), Duvel-Moortgat now puts an 18th month "Best By" date (reduced from 24 months...that change happened ~3 years ago) for Duvel Original/Red and Duvel Tripel Hop. Cheers! Brent
"The "Best By" date assigned to each beer (as determined by the brewery) is the date at which they anticipate the yeast from bottle refermentation dying off." "other refermented beers with saccharomyces cerevisiae given a 2-3 year "Best By" date." Pretty sure, in most example, S. cerevisiae is doing to be dead and have flocculated out well and truly before a beers 'best before' date. Look at how bright a fresh Duvel is without being roused. I think you'll find it's a lot simpler than what you think. Under EU law, food products require a 'Best before' date. Most breweries calculate their best before date based on the style (with some, especially bigger breweries, taking into account dissolved oxygen levels & logistic chains), looking at when their beer will still be drinking within an acceptable facsimile of itself when it was released. Others with simply use an arbitiry figure, which can be seen when 3 Fonteinen put on a 20 years date, which according to Armand (former owner/brewer) is only there to satisfy EU regulations, knowing that the beer will never expire/go bad.
Finally some real knowledge, zythology at it's best! You guys are the stars within all the beer review channels. Next time you're in Belgium, let me know and we'll try some Proefbrouwerij exports that aren't even available here = Belgium :-)
These Belgian beer glasses are the bane of my existence. It is great the Belgians have embraced a unique glass for each unique beer, however they are purely a marketing gimmick. The rim and the mouth should be narrower then the widest part of the glass. An inward then outward flare really helps complete the experience. Great video as ever lads!
Haha we are 100% on board. They are mostly terrible glasses, but god help us if we drink an Orval out of anything but the chalice we feel dirty. Same with Westmalle.
2 years perfect in my opinion. 1 year the minimum. They can call it ‘vieux orval’ from 9 months. Pubs in Belgium sellign vieux orval often have an orval ambassador sign somewhere. Cheers!
What i love about this beer is everyone likes it at a different age. Just shows how much it changes. I believe ambassadors are given signs if they show commitment and serve it right, which can indeed mean keeping aged bottles.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel 2-3 years is perfect for this beer as the brett takes over. Just don't push too long... I wondered if it could hold up for 10+ years (like lambic)... not so much. The 15 year old bottle I tried was completely oxidized. Super dark cardboard.
I expect the more they perfect their methods the longer you can keep it for but for us the brett has most of its fun before the year is out, and the oxygen doesnt get a look in. That said, depends how you keep it!
I brought a 8 year old version to a bottle share recently. It was a bit dull really, the brett had eaten everything in sight and was like a British pale ale. For me fresh Orval with the hops shining is my preference. For me after 2 years it stops being recognisable as Orval.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel 2 sach cerevisiae strains and 1 brett strain (a Bruxellensis). They use fresh cultures every 5 weeks which they propagate. They centrifuge the beer also before bottle conditionning. From packaging beer is kept for min 3 weeks at the brewery before release. Signs of brett comes around 3 months from packaging date. Just a few words by Orval Brwwmaster Anne-Francoise Pypaert. Cheers
I think it comes from a combination of the herbal dry hop and savoury brett notes rather than an off-flavour from fermentation. As for it being off style, Orval pretty much invented the style so I guess it is bang on!
Thanks for the reply guys! I had a feeling about the brett notes, but the herbal dry hop is a surprise. cheers! #drinkingOrvalASAPwhiledancingtofunkmusic
Great review, but I'm having trouble understanding if your saying "bread", "brett", "breath" or "bredth" or what? Sorry. Does anyone know? Great beer and cheers!!
Sorry but brett does not oxidise nearly as fast as any other yeast. I mean it is the reason why someone would brew a 100% brett IPA and it would last longer due to Brett's ability to constantly metabolize micro-oxygenation. The long term developments of brett are not that studied but some anectotal knowledge suggests that it metabolizes some esters and reduces some of the fruityness present in some beers.
Don't be sorry! Thanks for the info. The final bottle was definitely oxidised though - not badly at all for a 3 year old bottle but had that vibe for sure. And yeah the increased sweetness would be a mix of things but gotta me more than the drop off of bitterness as it was way sweeter than the two year old which had no hops left either.
I was totally underwhelmed by this beer, might have to retry it after it has been aged more than a few weeks. My current favorite Belgian beers are Saison Dupont, Delirium Tremens, Delirium Nocturnum and Chimay Blue. Any chance you can do a sofa sessions with some Samuel Smith's beers?
Hey Eric - rarely here people underwhelmed by it but each to their own! Try an older one at it has a much bigger brett presence. What kind of beers from Sam Smiths? We find the draught stuff very bland but some of the bottles quite tasty.
It's understandable. Some people just don't like the metallic taste. Though, once you appreciate that the metallic taste _is_ the point of drinking Orval, you might be seeing it in a different way.
![Chino Pacas - Modo Capone (with Drake & Fuerza Regida) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zjv8TQ0gBkg/mqdefault.jpg)
I first tried it in Arlon on my way back from Luxemburg to Brussels. My train got 1 hour delayed and it started raining. I was so frustrated and tired. So I sat outside of a bar next to the station and ordered this tasty beer recommended by the cute waitress. And also there was a very special person accompanying me. In the end I realized this 1 hour of delay made a very beautiful memory. Thank you Orval, thank you Belgian railway system, thank you waitress and thank you special person for being there with me on that day.
I actually have plenty of bottles from 2013 and I can say a 9 year old Orval is really an experience out of this world it is amazing and probably my most favourite I ever had it really developed each year and really is a rollercoaster but one I enjoy hopping on.
One year old Orval is my fav , greetings from Brussels.
For me this is the reason I give Orval the best beer in the world accolade. You can drink it young, aged, very cold and even lukewarm it still tastes of beer, but with varying characteristics.
The same goes with dozen other types of beers: quads, barley wines, lambic, imp. stouts, etc.
Does aging mean that a certain beer is the best in the world ? 😅
I had a orval from 2013 last year and wow that was by far the best orval i've never had
I just had one 1,5 years old. It really tasted "au point"! I just love my little Orval. Living in Belgium it make it easy to buy a lot and "try" to age it. I end up drinking them sooner than planned though. Cheers
Speaking of aged beers, I drank a four-year-old Trappistes Rochefort 10 last year and it was out of this world. Strong Belgian dark ales tend to age very well.
They sure do! Particularly in big bottles.
Orval is unique. My fave beer. I also like the fact that it is not as strong as the tripels, even though kudos on Westmalle and Achel.
Best beer in the world. Never disappointed.
Both Beermoth Cellar and Port St Beer House in Manchester both did old bottles of aged Orval for Orval day this year. Think I had 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, and 2013 between the two along with orval cheese at PSBH and gouda at Beermoth iirc. Amazing how every vintage tasted different.
Yeah the Tap did the same. Hoping to make it a proper tradition in the UK!
"Brewed on the 10th of December 2015" --> Oh, you tasted one of my favorite beer in the world... Actually brewed on my birthday! Lucky you guys. And very good video, as always 👌
Thanks tim, and happy birthday for December!
yup another channel i can watch endlessly
Awesome glad to hear it. We too get better after 9 months.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel 18 months is where it’s at
I came along to the Tap for Orval Day - had a great time. I'd never actually had orval before but I had a fresh one and a 3 year (with amazing cheese).
I don't know if this is sacreligious; but my favourite was actually a blend of the two!
Not at all! Great idea to blend it and make your perfect orval.
I remember buying a few Rochefort 8s a couple of years back and kicking back. The second one I opened was immensely better than all of the others... Much more flavour and body. When I looked at the label, it said that it was almost off. The others were 'fresher'.
I think trappist beers ought to be aged a little for maximum appreciation.
Some of the dark Trappists are fantastic when aged, but only when aged well. They need to be stored cool and away from light. Tripels don't age so well as far as my experiments go.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Cheers for the advice. I'm about to fork out for some imported Westvleteren 12, so looking to get it at its best...
If you can get the Westy 8 we think it's even better!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Cheers. Saw this message too late, but will get the 8 too later on :)
orval is my favourite of the beers i know, on top of westmalle tripel and the rocheforts huit & dix. the most aged i've had was nine years, and to me that's well worth the wait. then it's no longer a beer you'd shower over a passing cyclist. complexity and character, and quite elegant. nothing like it, i deem.
You pour beer over passing cyclists?!
You should have tried a mix of the fresh and the 3 year old, like people used to with mild & stale beers.
Had about 60 Orval in the last 12 months. 6 weeks to 12 years old. At the Abbey, in Belgian cafes and az home. Still reasonably drinkable at 10 years, but 12 oxidised to sherry. My best is 1-3 years at cellar temperature. Below 1 year and above 3 its s bit unpredictable.
I once made a Russian Imperial Stout that I aged for 3years in my basement,I couldn’t believe how good it was after all that time,10 ABV
For my birthday my good friend gave me a five year vertical of orval. 5 years is too long. 3 years was the best to me personally.
100% but even at three years it needs to be kept cool and dark too.
Orval would get my vote for best widely-available beer in the world. Westvletern 12 would have to take #1 for me though. Unfortunately, Westy is hard to get here in California (have to order directly from Belgium).
I learned that Belgian breweries, by law, are required to put a "Best By" date code on their packaging while "Bottled On" dates are simply a convenience and at the sheer discretion of the brewery.
The reason? The "Best By" date assigned to each beer (as determined by the brewery) is the date at which they anticipate the yeast from bottle refermentation dying off. Dead yeast no longer flocculate and get roused into suspension with minimal agitation to the bottle. This leads to a cloudy/chunky looking beer which is not a desired attribute for Belgian beers. The beer has certainly not spoiled, it is simply an indication that after the "Best By" date you might find a lot more yeast in your glass after decanting.
Generally (and Belgian specific), Brett-refermented beers are given a 5-year shelf life with other refermented beers with saccharomyces cerevisiae given a 2-3 year "Best By" date. However (and my personal, all-time favorite beer), Duvel-Moortgat now puts an 18th month "Best By" date (reduced from 24 months...that change happened ~3 years ago) for Duvel Original/Red and Duvel Tripel Hop.
Cheers!
Brent
In the UK all beers legally need a best before date too. Quite common in europe...possibly an EU law actually!
"The "Best By" date assigned to each beer (as determined by the brewery) is the date at which they anticipate the yeast from bottle refermentation dying off."
"other refermented beers with saccharomyces cerevisiae given a 2-3 year "Best By" date."
Pretty sure, in most example, S. cerevisiae is doing to be dead and have flocculated out well and truly before a beers 'best before' date.
Look at how bright a fresh Duvel is without being roused.
I think you'll find it's a lot simpler than what you think.
Under EU law, food products require a 'Best before' date.
Most breweries calculate their best before date based on the style (with some, especially bigger breweries, taking into account dissolved oxygen levels & logistic chains), looking at when their beer will still be drinking within an acceptable facsimile of itself when it was released.
Others with simply use an arbitiry figure, which can be seen when 3 Fonteinen put on a 20 years date, which according to Armand (former owner/brewer) is only there to satisfy EU regulations, knowing that the beer will never expire/go bad.
Finally some real knowledge, zythology at it's best! You guys are the stars within all the beer review channels.
Next time you're in Belgium, let me know and we'll try some Proefbrouwerij exports that aren't even available here = Belgium :-)
drunk the 2005 at Kulminator in Antwerp and the mix of brett and oxidation was pretty yummi
Similar experience. I had a 2010, I believe.
These Belgian beer glasses are the bane of my existence. It is great the Belgians have embraced a unique glass for each unique beer, however they are purely a marketing gimmick. The rim and the mouth should be narrower then the widest part of the glass. An inward then outward flare really helps complete the experience. Great video as ever lads!
Haha we are 100% on board. They are mostly terrible glasses, but god help us if we drink an Orval out of anything but the chalice we feel dirty. Same with Westmalle.
I think a Belgian tulip is a great glass preferably 500ml
2 years perfect in my opinion. 1 year the minimum. They can call it ‘vieux orval’ from 9 months. Pubs in Belgium sellign vieux orval often have an orval ambassador sign somewhere. Cheers!
What i love about this beer is everyone likes it at a different age. Just shows how much it changes. I believe ambassadors are given signs if they show commitment and serve it right, which can indeed mean keeping aged bottles.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel 2-3 years is perfect for this beer as the brett takes over. Just don't push too long... I wondered if it could hold up for 10+ years (like lambic)... not so much. The 15 year old bottle I tried was completely oxidized. Super dark cardboard.
I expect the more they perfect their methods the longer you can keep it for but for us the brett has most of its fun before the year is out, and the oxygen doesnt get a look in. That said, depends how you keep it!
I brought a 8 year old version to a bottle share recently. It was a bit dull really, the brett had eaten everything in sight and was like a British pale ale. For me fresh Orval with the hops shining is my preference. For me after 2 years it stops being recognisable as Orval.
How much do fresh orvals usually go for?
£2.50 on Beermerchants
Seems to be the way. 9 months is definitely my sweet spot.
my favorite beer ! and I have tried a lot !
Haha! Great channel. I'm yet to try Orval, I'm definitely gonna try now.
Orval is great! I have planed to do an age test with my favourit ale, Traquaire. It has really long best before date as well.
I feel like I am still gestating. I'm still not sure what I want to do when I grow up. Thanks for another awesome video!
Haha. Best to stay relatively young we say!
An interesting facts is that after about 6 months the gravity is at 0 P and also it's bottled conditioned with 3 different yeast strains not 1. 🍻
3 strains? Tell us more!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel 2 sach cerevisiae strains and 1 brett strain (a Bruxellensis). They use fresh cultures every 5 weeks which they propagate. They centrifuge the beer also before bottle conditionning. From packaging beer is kept for min 3 weeks at the brewery before release. Signs of brett comes around 3 months from packaging date. Just a few words by Orval Brwwmaster Anne-Francoise Pypaert. Cheers
This is a much nicer sofa than usual.
Harder on the ass but the beer is closer.
The Craft Beer Channel this should absolutely be the Beer Merchants Tap slogan.
Gonna make the sign asap.
I had a 7 year old Saison Brett by Boulevard. It was delicious
Between 15 and 18 months is normally the sweet spot for me.
I live 10min away from the brewery ahah
Lucky you!
What strain of Brett is in Orval? When we mostly think of Brett it's brettanomyces bruxellensis that plays such a big role in traditional lambics.
I believe it is brett lambicus but someone might correct me!
Wikipedia says Lambicus at least
Regarding the Belgian Trappists, Orval was at the bottom of my list.
Probiotic Beer,love it !
I don't know, I bet they were orval!
I got intrigued by the medicinal characteristic you found. What could that be, and is it ok to be in there, related to that style?.
I think it comes from a combination of the herbal dry hop and savoury brett notes rather than an off-flavour from fermentation. As for it being off style, Orval pretty much invented the style so I guess it is bang on!
Thanks for the reply guys! I had a feeling about the brett notes, but the herbal dry hop is a surprise. cheers! #drinkingOrvalASAPwhiledancingtofunkmusic
You forgot to mention what year your chalices are from. Cheers!
(and bugger me for being out of Orval)
Great review, but I'm having trouble understanding if your saying "bread", "brett", "breath" or "bredth" or what? Sorry. Does anyone know? Great beer and cheers!!
Definitely saying Brett!
Sorry but brett does not oxidise nearly as fast as any other yeast. I mean it is the reason why someone would brew a 100% brett IPA and it would last longer due to Brett's ability to constantly metabolize micro-oxygenation. The long term developments of brett are not that studied but some anectotal knowledge suggests that it metabolizes some esters and reduces some of the fruityness present in some beers.
And the sweetness that develops is possibly a further drop of the bitterness with extended aging.
Don't be sorry! Thanks for the info. The final bottle was definitely oxidised though - not badly at all for a 3 year old bottle but had that vibe for sure. And yeah the increased sweetness would be a mix of things but gotta me more than the drop off of bitterness as it was way sweeter than the two year old which had no hops left either.
Very cool stuff! Cheers!
Jonny are you the same guy from Good Beer Hunting podcast? Good to put a fame to the nace.
That's me! I also write for GBH pretty regularly.
I was totally underwhelmed by this beer, might have to retry it after it has been aged more than a few weeks. My current favorite Belgian beers are Saison Dupont, Delirium Tremens, Delirium Nocturnum and Chimay Blue. Any chance you can do a sofa sessions with some Samuel Smith's beers?
Hey Eric - rarely here people underwhelmed by it but each to their own! Try an older one at it has a much bigger brett presence.
What kind of beers from Sam Smiths? We find the draught stuff very bland but some of the bottles quite tasty.
It's understandable. Some people just don't like the metallic taste. Though, once you appreciate that the metallic taste _is_ the point of drinking Orval, you might be seeing it in a different way.
@@TheCraftBeerChannelTheir chocolate stout is lovely
But who is Brett? 🤔
I wish more beers tasted like liquid copper.
A good Trappist but can't hold a candle to Chimay Blue or St. Bernardus 12.
Both DELICIOUS beers but very different to Orval being dark, much stronger and unbretted!
Alan Parsons Project!
You're welcome :)
Whales and dolphins are called cetaceans, go Brad.
is he saying 'bread'?
Brad. I wish his name was Bread.
Passive aggression much
Sigh... now I have to go get my last Orval out of the cellar.
I think you been abusing the aroma of sherbet for the last 2 years :D in most of the beers
You are right. Pretty much any brett beer!
10:09 Shit....wrong door.... and i'm on camera... fuck
haha good spot!
Could have sent you a 5yo :)
How does it taste at that age?
boo
Too young and too dumb.