@cephyric I did basically say this, it's not new information. You want to Combust after a big crit, which is generally going to come off a pyroblast. You do not want to sit around waiting for that in a PvE fight, better to use it and get it on cooldown than wait for the big pyro crit that may never come.
@SondreLeseth Yes and you should. I imagine someone will come up with an addon that will tell you the optimal time to fire off Combustion, but bear in mind you don't want to wait too long, better to have 2 pretty good combustions than 1 amazing combustion in a fight.
A few things. 1) Use FFB! - No, it doesn't have a DoT anymore and even glyphed (which does give it a stacking DoT), it's not really worth using. Refer to the EJ thread on the matter for proof 2) Spam Scorch! - This is a terrible idea. Glyphed Fireball does more damage, you're dpsing sub-optimally if you're using Scorch and as was clearly proven here, losing 5% crit at this level of gear is fine. At higher levels, no doubt it won't be, but right now, Molten Armour is not an option.
@greenbayalldway I already addressed this in the video. Admittedly this would require people to watch the entire thing before commenting which is extremely hard.
@ohgodnotthisguyagain Trinket, which you will undoubtedly have at this level because it drops like candy and is the best non-heroic trinket for mages in the game.
@tomas4ya Well it'd save mana but I'm not convinced as to the overall DPS of it and whether or not it's worth throwing a GCD on it. It's a difficult call to make.
@The420Community The polymorph glyph wasn't used in Wrath because there are only 2 types of glyphs in Wrath and you'd be an idiot to take Poly over flat damage increases/crit for PvE dps. In Cataclysm it's only a major glyph, not a prime glyph, so it is an option.
Thank you for doing this series on the Mage. I've decided to go back and level my Mage now, as I've pretty much put my level 80s on hold until Cata comes out in 2 months.
Mastery stacking is a better option as frostfire bolt comes into affect with much better damage coming into the ffb dot. Impact helps spread the dots around. With that in mind you then have the ffb dot, living bomb dot, ignite dot and pyroblast dot. Pop combustion with 4 dots ticking around. You get the idea.
@biggideal My view is that the prevailing Elitist Jerks theorycraft is that it isn't worth it and they're better theorycrafters than me so I'll go with their view for the time being.
The rotation that TB used is sub optimal. Fireblast is needed. You can stack it on at the end of a fireball cast and not loose a GCD. Any instant cast mage spell can be spam cast at the end of a cast spell. Unless they change this in Cata? If this is the case, that would be great to know. I know this works on the live servers.
@Athinol He still misses some spells, and sometimes casts firebolt instead of LB, but the use of cooldowns and being fully buffed really does add about 5-6k DPS easily. You probably have more haste and crit aswell, hence you proc more stuff. You must understand that crit and hit will be nerfed quite alot at higher lvl.
@Justhere4food Well to be honest, there's still testing going on and lots of changes. I mean, they just re-increased the fire damage back up to 25% for Fire spec from 10%, and on live right now, I don't know if it's a bug, but There's only 2 fire prime glyphs, and only 7 prime glyphs in total for mage. Fireball, FFB, Living Bomb, Magma Shield, etc. are all Major Glyphs. So I'd say this is just a case of testing between Blast Wave and Flamestrike (which it mostly is), but probably better to wait.
The rotation you found that is optimal is the same rotation for fire that is optimal now - besides the fact that you have mage armor up now instead of molten armor. It's crazy how expensive all the spells are now and the crit/hit has been nerfed alot. It's gonna cause alot of players grief but I think it will improve them overall - that is, of course, if they choose to take this as a learning experience instead of a time to complain. Thanks for the info! Will be very helpful come cata.
TB, you should only combust after a pyro, whether its a crit or not doesn't matter as it crits around as much as your fireball, and you have to crit to get a hotstreak anyway. Therefore you will have your ignite up, and you want the pyroblast dot up, aswell, as its around 400 extra dps on the dot.
In the current state of the game (4.0.3) I like to pretty much do what you do but with a slight adjustment. When I know that dps is the way to go from the start of the fight i pop all my cooldowns as well as flame orb. Then open up with scroch and into living bomb. Spa fireball until i get a hotstreak and as soon as I cast pyroblast cast combustion. that way 4 dots will duplicate into combustion and do additional 4 dot damage
I really enjoy the new Combustion mechanic. I find games more enjoyable when the player actually has choices, and even more when those choices mean something. With Combustion, you have to choose between waiting for a nice crit, or using it earlier so that the cooldown finishes faster. I'm sure it will vary from fight to fight, and what's even better: mage to mage.
@Justhere4food First, Frostfire Bolt, not frostbolt, 2 very different skills, and it doesn't cleave so it IS for damage vs a single target. Second, Blast Wave also has a much, much lower mana cost and still procs flamestrike, so you get the damage from both for less cost, also you'll be doing much more damage if you single target DPS while you just wait for Blast Wave to come off of cooldown instead of trying to use flamestrike whenever it falls off (try it now that the changes are live).
@jcditto1 That there is no SP in cata is not entirely correct (At the moment anyways). There is a few items left with SP. Only seen it in weapons and "procs" on trinkets though. Examples (Searchable at mmo db): Soul Casket Staff of Sorceror Thane Thaurissan Staff of Ammunae But other than these few items with SP the source will be intellect as @trinityegone stated.
I think that a better build/rotation would be to take 3 points out of netherwind presence or percing ice and put them into 2/2 imp scorch and 1/1 firestarter and replace glyph if fireball with glyph of frostfire. The rotation would the be the same as you just did but with molten armor, fireblast on cd, casting frostfire bolt to get the dot up and fill in the blanks with scorch. I think that would do more dps with flashburn and be less mana expensive.
I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet tb so I thought I would point it out. It has been mention by GC that "for fire mages that emphasize the mastery stat, frostfire bolt with glyph becomes a better option than fireball with glyph" and he also says that that is their intent. Just wanted to point that out.
@HekseriEMP Reasons why this doesn't work. You are basing your numbers on Wrath Crit scaling. At level 85, your crit is MASSIVELY LOWER than it would be in T9 at Level 80. You cannot make the comparison, it isn't valid.
Have you considered trying out Frostfire Bolt in the fire rotation with the glyph? If you cast it just enough to maintain the DoT the glyph provides, and use fireball between, maybe you'd get more damage, especially with a lot of Mastery. It's worth trying out, I'd think.
I can see fire having to wait a bit until the later tiers to become more viable due to the big lack of crit raiting. Also, I believe I read a blue post that Frostfire Bolt (With the glyph) can replace Fireball when you get more mastery rating.
@virgo4200 Arcane has been adjusted quite a bit. I love Arcane, do not wish to play anything else. DPS is on level with Fire, but you have to manage your rotation now. You can't just spam till proc and Barage MUST be used now to clear at 3 or 4 stacks if not procced. I know, it's crazy, have to pay attention in fights now and watch what you're doing.
I'd say blast wave is a no-no to use on single-target. Flame Strike might be due to rolling ignites and the possibility of actually dealing nice damage.
@artem1s Yes the tooltip says "all existing damage over time effects". So in PVP for example if you get a pyro crit, a living bomb, a flamestrike dot, and then combustions someone, you might aswell switch targets and start fighting someone else, that first guy is already gonna die.
I so wanted you to take like two steps to the left so the flame orb would go straight to the dummy lol, either way not too bad and interesting to learn. I'd be half tempted to just try flame strike rather then blastwave so I might have to try it later on the beta.
Frost: Permafrost is nice, but you don't need extra slowing effect, nor a healing debuff (so many classes have this now anyway that you might not ever need it). So this clears up 3 points, allowing you both Early Frost, Piercing Chill and Mastery of Elements, more mana regen can only help so why not, and 1 point in Ice Shards, for trash throwing up more Finger of Frost procs. This all still allows for 2 points for maybe Invocation/Improved Blink/Imp CoC (for trash) This seems optimal for PvE
@Ragedoom yeah the talents were cut in half and crit / haste / hit is scaled to 85 not 80 so its all less, pretty much to make you replace your gear =P
dus of disappearence can be bought from the inscription vendor it costs 9g each in every major city there's one so might be pricey but you can get it mostly everywhere
Damn. I've been looking at fire for the past few months as my chosen spec in Cataclysm but after watching your Frost spec video I'm not so sure now. Frost seems to be getting a tad bit more damage and it looks much more mana efficient, maybe the better way to go for single target DPS. It's certainly something worth thinking about. Thanks for making these videos btw, these are really helpful, and sorry that the frost video comments got swamped by scrubs.
@C3ll3y3 by ilvl 200 i meant he is in the equivalent of what ilvl 200 blues are in wrath. him being in mostly lvl 85 normal/heroic gear which is ilvl 200 in wrath.
since the comments on your frost mage video have been disabled, I'm gonna post this here... tested the frost rotation on ptr (as close as I could get anyways) with my crappy t9 mage and hit about 3.5k dps. After that I tried my own priority system and was hitting around 4k dps... so I'd have to say the EJ post is either out of date, the poster didn't try using frostfirebolt as the main nuke or the difference in 80 and 85 gear is that big
Yes, Flamestrike does proc when you use Blast Wave and it hits 2 or more targets, and it is much better to use than Flamestrike on AoE packs as it costs almost half as much mana as Flamestrike does, but since it wont proc on a single target then for a bit more dps you could use Flamestrike. Question though: Frostfire Bolt glyphed puts a fire DoT up that stacks 3 times, increased by Mastery, spread by Impact, and improving Combustion...why wasn't this tested as well but immediately shunned?
@windfiresteel Cauterize never kills you. If it triggers, you were already dead, and it can only give you a chance to survive that you would not have had before.
@sunburningstare Not hit capped, blue gear, no raid buffs, no 30% ICC buff... I would say that 5k, or even 6k (like he did later on) is pretty high at this point. I'm sure that in raid, with gear equal of Tier 11, full buffed etc., you will do same or more dps then in ICC hc with 30% buff (not talkin about gimmick fights like Blood Queen). And thats first content. Numbers will grow with time even higher.
Just theoretically speaking, for combustion alone, would the optimum fire DoT lineup then be frostfire bolt, living bomb, and then ignite? The spell desc on combustion from wowhead talent calc reads as"...dealing the same damage per time as all your existing periodic fire effects." So my second question would be if it combines the damage together, and then distributes it over time, or averages the dmg of the dots. As you can probably tell, i'm not a mage, but theorycrafting interests me.
@titansguy67 As he said, his gear should be reforged for hit, as the hit cap is the first thing you should go for with stats. It's no wonder he's only doing 6k -- he has a 10% miss chance against the level 88 raid boss dummy. That's with 708 hit rating from level 83 blues.
id recommend speccing and using fire blast in ur rotations It may cost bit more mana but if u spec into it it crits more -> mana back from MoE more of a chance to proc a hot streak and if ur specced into it has more of a chance to proc improved hot steak. id say lose ur point in cauterize put them imp FB. Sure ull lose that fall back option but hay ur a mage ur only there for water anyways ^.-
@mastersam23 Just stack crit and mastery. Do not use frostfire bolt- yes it deals more dmg than fireball and has a nice DOT, but u can get a Fireball glyph which adds 5% crit to it and thats better as u got higher chance to get a Hotstreak. Fire is crit based and thats what u should focus on. Also, unlike in the video, every fire mage should use scorth more often to get fast-easy crits. it doesnt reduce ur dps much coz u get to cast 2 scortches in time of casting 1 fireball.
@TotalHalibut i see .. someone mentioned something very interesting before, that frostfire bolt should be used in the rotation, since it applies a DoT and thats what the mastery is benefiting, the ticking dots .. whats ur view on that?
@trinityegone There is no SP in cata, the hit cap is nearly impossible to hit now, they have reworked how hit works. Crit is undervalued now, and haste is the only ok stat to really go for, but you need so much hit to get on targets now, it's all different come 4.0.1, it's gonna be a massive learning curve.
@jimmysillywalk nobody is forcing you to watch this, TB likes mages, TB likes making videos. if you want too see other types of cataclysm videos there are other casters out there.
@Ragedoom Not to mention this whole video is simply a test of the new builds and their rotation. By the end of Wrath the theorycrafters had pretty much milked every class for every drop of dps they had. With Cata on the horizon and all new skill trees its gonna be like a hard reset where everyone is doing sub par dps until the optimum specs/rotations can be figured out.
@TotalHalibut On frost mage rotation there is something I've been wondering on the PTR. With Brain Freeze it says that Frostfire can benefit from Fingers of Frost (high crit change, mastery) . But in numbers of crit for crit it is similar to Ice Lance. So why not use ice lance first to consume FoF then use BF. I's a question of GCD optimization. While you probably have done the recording already, if by chance you see this could you compare Frostfire (BF + FoF) vs Ice Lance (FoF) at 85?
Rotation is most likey going to be is; start with Pyroblast ( procs it's dot and critical mass), living bomb, Combustion, Flame Orb, Fireball spam or Frostfirebolt which everyone is talking about, then keep ur dots up. Simple. No scorch or fireblast needed.
dont you think insted of the dot spread with impact it should give this sort of effect like deepfreeze so if they are immune 2 stuns it deals twice the damage or something like that
Don't know if this addon is available to use in cata beta but when waiting for things to proc and when cooldowns are done the addon that i like is MikScrolling Battle Text. Its very nice and very customisable.
The blastwave / flame strike rotation looks like something that would be used when there are a few adds near the boss, but not enough to justify spamming channeled AOE. With the ability to put the dots from a main target to all nearby targets would this rotation still be better on AOE than using blizzard?
@nakedaswecame8d Troll shamans have been around since classic...Do you mean druids? In which case, you only need to wait for 4.0.3 sometime in Nov. to make the new class/race combos.
@polynuuma Exactly, the gear he is in is a lot better than 245 gear I would imagine, and hes doing less damage than someone in 245. Thats why I was asking if it was just his lack of hit that was causing that.
TB what helps much as possible is not to use scorch anymore and start out with pyroblast living Bomb combustion then flame orb, spam fireball and keep ur dots up at all time that's the rotation is most likely to be in cata, an most of u r going to ask y pyroblast first cause there is not a fireball dot and ur critical mass dot and living bomb dot do do as much to proc ur hotstreak. And that's the info I have brought for u today
@Catherel I wouldn't say that moonkins were any easier to play good as mage/elemental shammy/demo/destro lock or hunter. and they will be just a little bit more complicated (if there is any thing like that in WoW)
I remember an earlier video showing an intro the fire spec. I believe he showed a talent that caused a flamestrike whenever you throw down a blast wave. Has that talent changed now or is it still in? I didn't see him address it in this video.
I noticed in your Wipe-a-thon 3000 of The Lost City, that you were using Frostfire Bolt instead of Fireball. Was that just for shits and giggles, or is it better to use in the rotation than Fireball?
@TotalHalibut, well done, I enjoyed the video, and I'm anticipating your frost video. :D I don't know if you have a lot of experience with Frost, but if you wanted an expert on the matter, you might look into getting Lhivera into a video of some sort.
i watched a vid of you running a frostfire spec in a heroic, any chance for an update? don't really like babysitting dots but the frostfire rotation looks much more fun
I'm in beta, and I've seen these same numbers. However, it's like this across the board. Why? I have no clue. Could be the way they calc DPS now versus the info Recount is getting in Beta, meaning, needs an update to be correct, or it could be exactly what blizz said, which is, DPS isn't really going up, Damage overall is scalling more so instead of 20k DPS, you just have to manage you mana more and prepare for longer fights and mechanics juggling.
@Totalhalibut Blizzard mentioned they want fire mages that focus on mastery to use FFB and FFB glyph, however I don't see a mage wanting to focus on mastery, losing out on haste and crit which ends up in more hot streaks. What is your take on that?
I havent played the beta in a while but a quick question with regards to fireball vs frostfire bolt glyph wise. Does the stacking debuff from glyph of FFB transfer when using Impact? I might be foolish enough to spec my mage fire with a single target spec and an aoe spec if it does coz we all like more dots!
This interested me, so I attempted the same rotation, glyphs (except I got mage armor), and spec... without CDs, I was maintaining 7k and peaking at around 9k. I was lucky with procs, I'll admit, but it was very nice. :)
Damn you whinners for making Mr TB disable comments for part 3. *sad face* Anyway I love these little introductions, I am not currently in beta so this kinda gives me a guideline of what to expect. Altohugh I will usually experiment myself with these, fire does seem the most liable spec for Cata...
just a few questions ... now that u cannot apply living bomb on more than four targets does fire blast on impact proc apply living bomb on more thargets or does it only apply the ignite dot ? and does it apply the combustion ?
In beta on my fire mage, ive noticed that on single target if i use impact that it almost alwais procs a pyroblast for me, it may just be luck but i pull 8k on the dummies when i try doing that.
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I remember watching these videos when I was a kid Rest in peace, my friend.
@cephyric I did basically say this, it's not new information. You want to Combust after a big crit, which is generally going to come off a pyroblast.
You do not want to sit around waiting for that in a PvE fight, better to use it and get it on cooldown than wait for the big pyro crit that may never come.
@Paaarts Yes, you can, which is obviously something mages have never really had to do and might be worth looking into.
@SondreLeseth Yes and you should. I imagine someone will come up with an addon that will tell you the optimal time to fire off Combustion, but bear in mind you don't want to wait too long, better to have 2 pretty good combustions than 1 amazing combustion in a fight.
A few things.
1) Use FFB! - No, it doesn't have a DoT anymore and even glyphed (which does give it a stacking DoT), it's not really worth using. Refer to the EJ thread on the matter for proof
2) Spam Scorch! - This is a terrible idea. Glyphed Fireball does more damage, you're dpsing sub-optimally if you're using Scorch and as was clearly proven here, losing 5% crit at this level of gear is fine. At higher levels, no doubt it won't be, but right now, Molten Armour is not an option.
@greenbayalldway I already addressed this in the video. Admittedly this would require people to watch the entire thing before commenting which is extremely hard.
@ohgodnotthisguyagain Trinket, which you will undoubtedly have at this level because it drops like candy and is the best non-heroic trinket for mages in the game.
@tomas4ya Well it'd save mana but I'm not convinced as to the overall DPS of it and whether or not it's worth throwing a GCD on it. It's a difficult call to make.
@MrNecriod Of course you do, you have almost 3x the crit thanks to scaling.
@The420Community The polymorph glyph wasn't used in Wrath because there are only 2 types of glyphs in Wrath and you'd be an idiot to take Poly over flat damage increases/crit for PvE dps. In Cataclysm it's only a major glyph, not a prime glyph, so it is an option.
@Jonnehdk Fairly sure I mentioned this.
@galten123 Don't you get it? I'm not going to pop a bunch of cooldowns to artificially inflate my DPS, it is not an accurate way to display it.
@blazingyeeha Yes, that magical stat that doesn't exist anymore will be really helpful I'm sure.
Thank you for doing this series on the Mage.
I've decided to go back and level my Mage now, as I've pretty much put my level 80s on hold until Cata comes out in 2 months.
@biggideal I'm not convinced the use of the GCD would make it worthwhile.
Mastery stacking is a better option as frostfire bolt comes into affect with much better damage coming into the ffb dot. Impact helps spread the dots around. With that in mind you then have the ffb dot, living bomb dot, ignite dot and pyroblast dot. Pop combustion with 4 dots ticking around. You get the idea.
@biggideal My view is that the prevailing Elitist Jerks theorycraft is that it isn't worth it and they're better theorycrafters than me so I'll go with their view for the time being.
The rotation that TB used is sub optimal. Fireblast is needed. You can stack it on at the end of a fireball cast and not loose a GCD. Any instant cast mage spell can be spam cast at the end of a cast spell. Unless they change this in Cata? If this is the case, that would be great to know. I know this works on the live servers.
@Athinol He still misses some spells, and sometimes casts firebolt instead of LB, but the use of cooldowns and being fully buffed really does add about 5-6k DPS easily. You probably have more haste and crit aswell, hence you proc more stuff. You must understand that crit and hit will be nerfed quite alot at higher lvl.
@Justhere4food Well to be honest, there's still testing going on and lots of changes. I mean, they just re-increased the fire damage back up to 25% for Fire spec from 10%, and on live right now, I don't know if it's a bug, but There's only 2 fire prime glyphs, and only 7 prime glyphs in total for mage. Fireball, FFB, Living Bomb, Magma Shield, etc. are all Major Glyphs. So I'd say this is just a case of testing between Blast Wave and Flamestrike (which it mostly is), but probably better to wait.
The rotation you found that is optimal is the same rotation for fire that is optimal now - besides the fact that you have mage armor up now instead of molten armor. It's crazy how expensive all the spells are now and the crit/hit has been nerfed alot. It's gonna cause alot of players grief but I think it will improve them overall - that is, of course, if they choose to take this as a learning experience instead of a time to complain.
Thanks for the info! Will be very helpful come cata.
TB, you should only combust after a pyro, whether its a crit or not doesn't matter as it crits around as much as your fireball, and you have to crit to get a hotstreak anyway. Therefore you will have your ignite up, and you want the pyroblast dot up, aswell, as its around 400 extra dps on the dot.
In the current state of the game (4.0.3) I like to pretty much do what you do but with a slight adjustment. When I know that dps is the way to go from the start of the fight i pop all my cooldowns as well as flame orb. Then open up with scroch and into living bomb. Spa fireball until i get a hotstreak and as soon as I cast pyroblast cast combustion. that way 4 dots will duplicate into combustion and do additional 4 dot damage
I really enjoy the new Combustion mechanic. I find games more enjoyable when the player actually has choices, and even more when those choices mean something. With Combustion, you have to choose between waiting for a nice crit, or using it earlier so that the cooldown finishes faster. I'm sure it will vary from fight to fight, and what's even better: mage to mage.
@Justhere4food First, Frostfire Bolt, not frostbolt, 2 very different skills, and it doesn't cleave so it IS for damage vs a single target. Second, Blast Wave also has a much, much lower mana cost and still procs flamestrike, so you get the damage from both for less cost, also you'll be doing much more damage if you single target DPS while you just wait for Blast Wave to come off of cooldown instead of trying to use flamestrike whenever it falls off (try it now that the changes are live).
i love how u can dps very good and explain everything exactly at the time while doing it
@jcditto1 That there is no SP in cata is not entirely correct (At the moment anyways). There is a few items left with SP. Only seen it in weapons and "procs" on trinkets though. Examples (Searchable at mmo db):
Soul Casket
Staff of Sorceror Thane Thaurissan
Staff of Ammunae
But other than these few items with SP the source will be intellect as @trinityegone stated.
I think that a better build/rotation would be to take 3 points out of netherwind presence or percing ice and put them into 2/2 imp scorch and 1/1 firestarter and replace glyph if fireball with glyph of frostfire.
The rotation would the be the same as you just did but with molten armor, fireblast on cd, casting frostfire bolt to get the dot up and fill in the blanks with scorch.
I think that would do more dps with flashburn and be less mana expensive.
@Frallemannen
bare in mind that due to level scaleing if it where compared to lvl 80 hed prublay be doing about 9/10k
I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet tb so I thought I would point it out. It has been mention by GC that "for fire mages that emphasize the mastery stat, frostfire bolt with glyph becomes a better option than fireball with glyph" and he also says that that is their intent. Just wanted to point that out.
@HekseriEMP Reasons why this doesn't work. You are basing your numbers on Wrath Crit scaling. At level 85, your crit is MASSIVELY LOWER than it would be in T9 at Level 80. You cannot make the comparison, it isn't valid.
Have you considered trying out Frostfire Bolt in the fire rotation with the glyph? If you cast it just enough to maintain the DoT the glyph provides, and use fireball between, maybe you'd get more damage, especially with a lot of Mastery. It's worth trying out, I'd think.
New Talent system came out a couple days ago, i followed your spec for Fire mage and my DPS shot from 4k to 6k Thanks man
the remove glyph reagent is, last i checked, sold by a Inscription Supply vendor. They're found near Inscription trainers.
@xXxDrummerStekoxXx He asks in a PvE fire video.
@TotalHalibut
The Glyph of frostfire bolt is so that you can use FFB instead of Fireball. there was a blue post about it a couple weeks ago
I can see fire having to wait a bit until the later tiers to become more viable due to the big lack of crit raiting. Also, I believe I read a blue post that Frostfire Bolt (With the glyph) can replace Fireball when you get more mastery rating.
TB,you made me a pro being fire by looking at your talent tree and watching how you use your rotation.Dont listen to em haters.You rock >:P
@Refizmm Fail reading. Fireball's glyph gives you 5% crit chance for it, not extra damage.
@virgo4200 Arcane has been adjusted quite a bit. I love Arcane, do not wish to play anything else. DPS is on level with Fire, but you have to manage your rotation now. You can't just spam till proc and Barage MUST be used now to clear at 3 or 4 stacks if not procced. I know, it's crazy, have to pay attention in fights now and watch what you're doing.
I'd say blast wave is a no-no to use on single-target. Flame Strike might be due to rolling ignites and the possibility of actually dealing nice damage.
Not sure if someone mentioned it, but the 2% hit chance that you recalled could of been mousing over the melee hit chance, looks like a possibility.
@artem1s Yes the tooltip says "all existing damage over time effects". So in PVP for example if you get a pyro crit, a living bomb, a flamestrike dot, and then combustions someone, you might aswell switch targets and start fighting someone else, that first guy is already gonna die.
I so wanted you to take like two steps to the left so the flame orb would go straight to the dummy lol, either way not too bad and interesting to learn. I'd be half tempted to just try flame strike rather then blastwave so I might have to try it later on the beta.
@DIchronicaddict It really wouldn't.
Frost: Permafrost is nice, but you don't need extra slowing effect, nor a healing debuff (so many classes have this now anyway that you might not ever need it). So this clears up 3 points, allowing you both Early Frost, Piercing Chill and Mastery of Elements, more mana regen can only help so why not, and 1 point in Ice Shards, for trash throwing up more Finger of Frost procs. This all still allows for 2 points for maybe Invocation/Improved Blink/Imp CoC (for trash)
This seems optimal for PvE
@Ragedoom yeah the talents were cut in half and crit / haste / hit is scaled to 85 not 80 so its all less, pretty much to make you replace your gear =P
dus of disappearence can be bought from the inscription vendor it costs 9g each
in every major city there's one so might be pricey but you can get it mostly everywhere
Damn. I've been looking at fire for the past few months as my chosen spec in Cataclysm but after watching your Frost spec video I'm not so sure now. Frost seems to be getting a tad bit more damage and it looks much more mana efficient, maybe the better way to go for single target DPS. It's certainly something worth thinking about. Thanks for making these videos btw, these are really helpful, and sorry that the frost video comments got swamped by scrubs.
@C3ll3y3 by ilvl 200 i meant he is in the equivalent of what ilvl 200 blues are in wrath. him being in mostly lvl 85 normal/heroic gear which is ilvl 200 in wrath.
since the comments on your frost mage video have been disabled, I'm gonna post this here... tested the frost rotation on ptr (as close as I could get anyways) with my crappy t9 mage and hit about 3.5k dps. After that I tried my own priority system and was hitting around 4k dps... so I'd have to say the EJ post is either out of date, the poster didn't try using frostfirebolt as the main nuke or the difference in 80 and 85 gear is that big
Yes, Flamestrike does proc when you use Blast Wave and it hits 2 or more targets, and it is much better to use than Flamestrike on AoE packs as it costs almost half as much mana as Flamestrike does, but since it wont proc on a single target then for a bit more dps you could use Flamestrike.
Question though: Frostfire Bolt glyphed puts a fire DoT up that stacks 3 times, increased by Mastery, spread by Impact, and improving Combustion...why wasn't this tested as well but immediately shunned?
great video, i can really tell that you love what you do and we love watching it!
@windfiresteel
Cauterize never kills you. If it triggers, you were already dead, and it can only give you a chance to survive that you would not have had before.
@sunburningstare
Not hit capped, blue gear, no raid buffs, no 30% ICC buff... I would say that 5k, or even 6k (like he did later on) is pretty high at this point. I'm sure that in raid, with gear equal of Tier 11, full buffed etc., you will do same or more dps then in ICC hc with 30% buff (not talkin about gimmick fights like Blood Queen). And thats first content. Numbers will grow with time even higher.
Just theoretically speaking, for combustion alone, would the optimum fire DoT lineup then be frostfire bolt, living bomb, and then ignite?
The spell desc on combustion from wowhead talent calc reads as"...dealing the same damage per time as all your existing periodic fire effects."
So my second question would be if it combines the damage together, and then distributes it over time, or averages the dmg of the dots.
As you can probably tell, i'm not a mage, but theorycrafting interests me.
@titansguy67 As he said, his gear should be reforged for hit, as the hit cap is the first thing you should go for with stats. It's no wonder he's only doing 6k -- he has a 10% miss chance against the level 88 raid boss dummy. That's with 708 hit rating from level 83 blues.
id recommend speccing and using fire blast in ur rotations
It may cost bit more mana but if u spec into it it crits more -> mana back from MoE
more of a chance to proc a hot streak
and if ur specced into it has more of a chance to proc improved hot steak.
id say lose ur point in cauterize put them imp FB. Sure ull lose that fall back option but hay ur a mage ur only there for water anyways ^.-
@mastersam23
Just stack crit and mastery. Do not use frostfire bolt- yes it deals more dmg than fireball and has a nice DOT, but u can get a Fireball glyph which adds 5% crit to it and thats better as u got higher chance to get a Hotstreak. Fire is crit based and thats what u should focus on. Also, unlike in the video, every fire mage should use scorth more often to get fast-easy crits. it doesnt reduce ur dps much coz u get to cast 2 scortches in time of casting 1 fireball.
@TotalHalibut i see .. someone mentioned something very interesting before, that frostfire bolt should be used in the rotation, since it applies a DoT and thats what the mastery is benefiting, the ticking dots .. whats ur view on that?
I think I heard that dust of disappearance is made by scribes as a bone they threw to them since glyphs are learned once.
@trinityegone There is no SP in cata, the hit cap is nearly impossible to hit now, they have reworked how hit works. Crit is undervalued now, and haste is the only ok stat to really go for, but you need so much hit to get on targets now, it's all different come 4.0.1, it's gonna be a massive learning curve.
@sunburningstare Welcome to expansion scaling. Population, everyone.
@jimmysillywalk nobody is forcing you to watch this, TB likes mages, TB likes making videos.
if you want too see other types of cataclysm videos there are other casters out there.
TB, Turn your cursor on within fraps? It may just be me but being able to see that cursor flying around is better than wondering where it is ^^
@Ragedoom Not to mention this whole video is simply a test of the new builds and their rotation. By the end of Wrath the theorycrafters had pretty much milked every class for every drop of dps they had. With Cata on the horizon and all new skill trees its gonna be like a hard reset where everyone is doing sub par dps until the optimum specs/rotations can be figured out.
@TotalHalibut On frost mage rotation there is something I've been wondering on the PTR. With Brain Freeze it says that Frostfire can benefit from Fingers of Frost (high crit change, mastery) . But in numbers of crit for crit it is similar to Ice Lance. So why not use ice lance first to consume FoF then use BF. I's a question of GCD optimization.
While you probably have done the recording already, if by chance you see this could you compare Frostfire (BF + FoF) vs Ice Lance (FoF) at 85?
Miss the old intros :(
@EToaster it should be a very good choice to maximize combustion damage
Rotation is most likey going to be is; start with Pyroblast ( procs it's dot and critical mass), living bomb, Combustion, Flame Orb, Fireball spam or Frostfirebolt which everyone is talking about, then keep ur dots up. Simple. No scorch or fireblast needed.
dont you think insted of the dot spread with impact it should give this sort of effect like deepfreeze so if they are immune 2 stuns it deals twice the damage or something like that
Don't know if this addon is available to use in cata beta but when waiting for things to proc and when cooldowns are done the addon that i like is MikScrolling Battle Text. Its very nice and very customisable.
The blastwave / flame strike rotation looks like something that would be used when there are a few adds near the boss, but not enough to justify spamming channeled AOE. With the ability to put the dots from a main target to all nearby targets would this rotation still be better on AOE than using blizzard?
@MrThefncguy ye they're doing a major change with the talent system. All talents are getting a change, generaly
@nakedaswecame8d
Troll shamans have been around since classic...Do you mean druids? In which case, you only need to wait for 4.0.3 sometime in Nov. to make the new class/race combos.
OMFG!!! The : neeesssthheeeeaaahh sound at 07:31 is so fucking awesome!
i never played a mage above 30, and i havent been playing this soul sucker for almost a year, why then hell am i still watching this !
@futbolaholic3 In other words from what Kelc said, every other level after lvl 10, then you get 1 every level from 81-85, making a total of 41 points.
@polynuuma Exactly, the gear he is in is a lot better than 245 gear I would imagine, and hes doing less damage than someone in 245. Thats why I was asking if it was just his lack of hit that was causing that.
TB what helps much as possible is not to use scorch anymore and start out with pyroblast living Bomb combustion then flame orb, spam fireball and keep ur dots up at all time that's the rotation is most likely to be in cata, an most of u r going to ask y pyroblast first cause there is not a fireball dot and ur critical mass dot and living bomb dot do do as much to proc ur hotstreak. And that's the info I have brought for u today
@Catherel
I wouldn't say that moonkins were any easier to play good as mage/elemental shammy/demo/destro lock or hunter. and they will be just a little bit more complicated (if there is any thing like that in WoW)
@titansguy67 Wrath entry level dps was around 2k, so by the end of Cata we'll probably be seeing 30-35k+ ..just give it time
I remember an earlier video showing an intro the fire spec. I believe he showed a talent that caused a flamestrike whenever you throw down a blast wave. Has that talent changed now or is it still in? I didn't see him address it in this video.
I noticed in your Wipe-a-thon 3000 of The Lost City, that you were using Frostfire Bolt instead of Fireball. Was that just for shits and giggles, or is it better to use in the rotation than Fireball?
@TotalHalibut, well done, I enjoyed the video, and I'm anticipating your frost video. :D I don't know if you have a lot of experience with Frost, but if you wanted an expert on the matter, you might look into getting Lhivera into a video of some sort.
i watched a vid of you running a frostfire spec in a heroic, any chance for an update? don't really like babysitting dots but the frostfire rotation looks much more fun
I'm in beta, and I've seen these same numbers. However, it's like this across the board. Why? I have no clue. Could be the way they calc DPS now versus the info Recount is getting in Beta, meaning, needs an update to be correct, or it could be exactly what blizz said, which is, DPS isn't really going up, Damage overall is scalling more so instead of 20k DPS, you just have to manage you mana more and prepare for longer fights and mechanics juggling.
@CyberlekVox They pretty much nerfed crit into the ground, i'd imagine that makes hot streak/ignite a lot less good.
you'll want to use FFB glyph and throw FFB in your rotation to stack the dot, it would replace pyro blast
@Totalhalibut Blizzard mentioned they want fire mages that focus on mastery to use FFB and FFB glyph, however I don't see a mage wanting to focus on mastery, losing out on haste and crit which ends up in more hot streaks. What is your take on that?
I havent played the beta in a while but a quick question with regards to fireball vs frostfire bolt glyph wise.
Does the stacking debuff from glyph of FFB transfer when using Impact?
I might be foolish enough to spec my mage fire with a single target spec and an aoe spec if it does coz we all like more dots!
@titansguy67 ya but its 6k DPS with only like quest items and prolly only like 3 or 4 instance items
This interested me, so I attempted the same rotation, glyphs (except I got mage armor), and spec... without CDs, I was maintaining 7k and peaking at around 9k.
I was lucky with procs, I'll admit, but it was very nice. :)
Do you have any other class videos like this coming up? With help from other people like you mentioned :)
Damn you whinners for making Mr TB disable comments for part 3. *sad face*
Anyway I love these little introductions, I am not currently in beta so this kinda gives me a guideline of what to expect. Altohugh I will usually experiment myself with these, fire does seem the most liable spec for Cata...
just a few questions ... now that u cannot apply living bomb on more than four targets does fire blast on impact proc apply living bomb on more thargets or does it only apply the ignite dot ? and does it apply the combustion ?
In beta on my fire mage, ive noticed that on single target if i use impact that it almost alwais procs a pyroblast for me, it may just be luck but i pull 8k on the dummies when i try doing that.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who no mater how many times I go to my glyph page I still for some reason cannot remember where it is ever.
@20:34 A buff starts ticking with a book icon, i doubt this is part of the usual fire rotation, is it some kind of trinket ?
at the beginning of wrath I was running with mage armor, it makes sense that we need it at the beginning of cata