*Update* I recently learned that a lot of moves on whiff have more recovery frames than they did in previous Tekken games, which further supports what I'm saying about Namco making the game more like VF by nerfing the mid poke game :-) and I've also made a vid about the shop dodging critique when the game was released, which isn't cool Namco: ruclips.net/video/2NA7_vCDlyg/видео.html
6 месяцев назад
@VideogamestashboxI still have VF4 and Evoltion for my PS2. Pretty sure VF4 is the one that has a mode for training your AI. Evolution uses ghosts in Quest mode, but you can't train them yourself.
One underrated aspect of heat engagement and rage arts is that each provide a universal way to "interrupt" your opponents offense. So I have lots of ways dealing with unga bunga aggression which is oh so common online
Yes this is true, but they can also be used to extend your bunga aggression as well, and they themselves are inherently bunga. So it's not a solution that removes this aspects of this game's design, but instead merely reinforces it. Basically these mechanics are fighting bunga with your own bunga, which I think overall is a deficit on the game's design. What would be better is if Namco tampered down the bunga of the game more in the first place, rather than adding these as sort of band-aid options.
This is a good video. Wanted to add, as an old VF player, that the main reason VF can and is played up close, is because sidestep actually WORKS, in w consistent, systematic and intentional way. If you step, w a single tap up or down. During the start up/active frames of the oppt’s attack, you will step it. The only exceptions being half circular (need to be stepped to front or back side) and full circular (homing) attacks. Tekken’s side step system is more like a rag doll system, where depending on range, attack, character etc, maybe it will work, maybe it won’t. This (and Throw/Mid being the 50/50, not Mid/Low) is why matches are played up close at high speed. In a video Anakin made last week for beginners, he says plainly ‘I know it seems like you bought this 3D fighting game, and you can just sidestep all these attacks, but it doesn’t really work like that’. It’s the biggest difference between the 2, and the ways throws work
Oh yes absolutely! 100% on point here, and i really didn't fully learn how to sidestep until playing VF ha. In tekken 7, the sidestep was truly terrible, it made the game extremely linear and risky to get around moves. The good thing is that in t8, I do think they improved the sidestep a lot. It's still not VF tier, but it's a really big improvement and really helps the game to be played more fundamentally I think. Awesome comment.
@@TheElectricUnderground yeah, I don't think Tekken will ever implement a sidestep like VF, because they'd need to re-program and re-balance the whole game. In VF's system, the game recognizes you've stepped, and does the step for you, essentially. If you stepped and there's no attack, you get the failed step animation, where you step, but you're vulnerable. If you stepped properly, there's the audio cue and you're in the clear (there are exceptions of course). Tekken would have to define how all the attacks worked. IE if a sidestep right vs Paul dependably avoids Deathfist and Demo Man (both right buttons), Paul's 50/50 becomes much less useful. So they'd have to compensate, by say defining Demo Man as 1/2 circular, and the game would change drastically. As someone learning T8 w some intention of getting good at it, except in certain cases, stepping doesn't seem worth the risk; unless I know exactly what's coming & have a good idea of when. Especially in low ranks where spam & strings are rampant. That's another huge difference: in T8 the 2nd, 3rd or final hit of strings cause crumple or stun, or launch if you get hit on counter, cause you tried to interrupt or you thought the string was done & now you try to jab. Traditionally not the case at all in VF
Ironic how you shil so hard about how sweet side stepping is in VF. But totally forgot the smoothest side stepping is in 3D fighters. Soul caliber and DOA series respectively. Side stepping in both Tekken and Virtua Fighter is unrealistic and janky.
@@MuhammadAli-xw4yc first off , I’m not shilling for anything. VF is a dead series. Secondly, Soul Calibur’s 8 way run system is completely different from anything in VF or Tekken. Depending on which way you’re moving (vertically, horizontally, on a 45 degree or diagonal axis), the character’s move sets completely change. These commands can all be done from standing motionless, but if the character is already moving along that axis, the full commands aren’t required I think Soul Calibur is a great game, but it’s movement system isn’t even built around the same ideas as VF and Tekken, which are almost the same, w a few fundamental differences, that we were talking about here and he’s talking about in the video Your argument is like saying the best stock car racer is a motorcycle. It’s a different thing. Sort of like, the fact that it’s a weapon based fighter.
You only touched on it for like 5 seconds, but I want to give MAJOR props to Arcade Quest, as a filthy casual scrub. It is the type of tutorial I have been screaming for in a FG for YEARS. Rather than being "white room with text boxes" or "mediocre RPG campaign that barely resembles the core gameplay", it is just regular ass Tekken matches against AI designed to test you on specific concepts by having specific quirks and habits. The most fun way to learn how to block mids is to just toss you into a fight against an AI that throws out a lot of mids, but somehow it took us till 2024 for somebody to realize that that is more engaging than sticking me in a training room, showing me a text box explaining "how to block mids," making me do it once, and then moving on like I've mastered the idea. I wish that it was a little more comprehensive (e.g., throw breaking) and more clearly articulated that it was the tutorial mode so new players would go there first, but it is far and away the most FUN I've had learning how to play a new FG. For context, I am absolutely ASS at FGs, my online winrate on every game I've tried is less than 5%, but Tekken 8 is the first time I've ever actually enjoyed those initial tutorial hours in a game. Its another knockout mode in this game, and Namco deserves some serious credit for it too
@@HighLanderPonyYT unless I missed something, isn't KI 2013's tutorial just a couple hours of "practice room with text boxes"? I reinstalled it when it got the next gen update a few months ago I didn't see anything resembling Tekken 8's. Haven't played Skullgirls or Guilty Gear though so maybe those have this sort of "traditional game design" campaign I'm talking about, idk
Oh yeah arcade quest is really cool. The fact that I played it and enjoyed it means it's doing something right. I think the mode ends to early and is a bit too easy, but luckily we have super ghost battle for that challenge and longevity.
You talked a lot about VF influence, but not a lot about Dead or Alive given some new stage interactions and gameplay changes... Yohei Shimbori may have joined late in development, but that's the DOA5 and 6 director as Tekken 8's Producer/Director Assistant. Sounds like a good match.
Oh yes you can def feel the doa magic in this game at times. I decided to mostly talk about vf however, because doa is also working off of vf in terms of influence. I do really love doa though
@@TheElectricUnderground True enough, I just thought it was worth mentioning as you similarly suspected that staff changes in the Smash series was a factor in how the series went - not to say I totally agree. On another note, I'm a Tekken Ball and Force enjoyer and how we can get that legendary game with Tekken Ball AND Tekken Force someday. T4, TTT2 Wii U and T8 did meet us halfway at least. The story mode having bespoke Force-esque bits is a start but an arcade experience with all playable characters being supported would be preferable or at least a nice extra. Rather pay for that (either T3 or T4 designs are fine) than bowling.
@@HighLanderPonyYT quit copy pasting your comment. Netcode is a lot better. Either upgrade your ISP, or change your region in your windows settings, or add Tekken 8 firewall exclusions.
Oh thats really interesting! For me those early 3d fighters were interesting, but I think where vf as a series really started cooking was the vf3 and vf4 era. Those games are still insane to this day ha. Though vf5 is my fav overall
You are misunderstanding the AI implementation in Tekken 8. It's not machine learning, it just picks corresponding moves acc. to situations. Infact if you haven't been in a particular situation the AI won't do anything. It's a flow chart.
How does it compare to killer instinct's try at the concept. (I'd throw samsho into it but that is an utter failure. Feels like its trying to fight someone else half the time.)
As much as I love Tekken (been playing it since T2), I'm glad you mentioned Tekken taking some things from VF such as Arcade Quest and character customization. I absolutely loved VF 4 Evo and sunk so many hours into that game. Honestly if it wasnt for VF existing, there wouldn't be any Tekken. Didn't one of the guys that worked on VF left Sega for Namco and created Tekken?
How awesome would it be to have a "ghost" battle at the end of a story mode, against an AI that learned from your fights you did during the story. That would be some cool mirror fight, overcome yourself shit.
Was waiting for you to review this, hell yeah. Also I really like how you strung together all the changes in the series and why they ended up that way. Plus how it all culminates in Tekken 8. Super interesting
Thank you very much chase! I think it s important to add context to how a fighting game series has changed and evolved in my reviews, I think it s really important and interesting
I just want comment on that virtua fighter influence. It appears they also added DOA mechanics too from certain stages having cenematic wall combo transitions. From what I heard that the DOA director had a hand in developing Tekken 8
Yes absolutely! Also on the doa side, the throw system changes are also doa inspired, since doa has a really agro throw system. And of course, the female character models are also looking better ha.
Great review, dude! You're absolutely right: the overall package is very solid, but the POTENTIAL for what this game does to change how fighting games are developed going forward is the most interesting part of all. The Super Ghost Battle and Replay Takeover features should be staples of every fighting game from now on, particularly the more competitive-minded fighting games. I would have liked to see a more in-depth tutorial, something I've been BEGGING Tekken to incorporate for over 20 years. The one we have in T8 functions, but it focuses too much on teaching the Heat System and not enough on basic things like throw breaks and even how to get off the ground.
Thank you very much my dude! I do think I am going to do a tutorial on how the play the game from a more fundamental perspective here very soon! I think the game really needs something like that to be honest. I've been watching a lot of tutorials today and I don't think they are very informative about the heart of the game's combat system.
I dunno how YT algorithm decided to throw in your video on my feed but I'm really glad it did! You are very pleasing to listen to and your way of explaining things is very clear and all the stuff just makes sense. Thank you, sir.
I was a QA tester on Tekken 6 and would play that game for 8 hours at work and then go play for a few more hours at Golfland after work because that game just had such an amazing presentation and feel. There's nothing like playing Tekken 6 on a Namco Noir cab with the volume cranked and hearing that "GET READY FOR THE NEXT BATTLE" with the flames all around. It's a legit gaming moment IMO. Tekken games look, sound and feel amazing to play and just suck you in on sheer presentation alone. SF4/5/6 by contrast have objectively "good graphics" but the style and presentation just doesn't quite match the drip that Tekken oozes from every surface of the game.
Honestly, at this point I think Tekken 8 is already busted. The want to make the game more aggresive, sure... so then, why add heat and rage art? All this does is make the players timid and unwilling to engage. Not to mention, rage also rewards players for losing, which is absurd in my opinion. I've had high hopes for this iteration but eh, I don't vibe with the direction this game is heading.
@@HighLanderPonyYT I know what they're called. I just don't think "comeback mechanics" are even valid in competetive games. Why aren't there comback mechanics in chess? Starcraft? Boxing? It boils down to the nonsense of rewarding the loser.
I said that implying that you could've just used that term instead of writing that much. Depends on what the design goes for, ig. It's meant to make games more interesting by lessening slippery slopes. @@duduoson5278
They're there to make matches less slippery slope-y. Whether that's a good idea or whether they're done right is up for debate. And I just mentioned the term so that next time you wouldn't have to write that much to get the same idea across. @@duduoson5278
Rage arts can stay, just make them Heat Arts, tie them to the heat meter. It will add to player's expression, one guy uses heat for heat dash to get bigger combos, other guy uses it for heat smash to get plus on block to keep pressure, and of course scrubs will use it for heat arts, but they are left with nothing for the rest of the round. It's really stupid how such an agressive game like t8 rewards those who get their ass kicked by giving bonus damage and armored super move which deals significant amount of damage, forcing the better player to be timid to engage for a finishing blow.
@@HighLanderPonyYT I'm all for getting rid of rage arts and rage mechanic in general, but banco won't do it, they are going to leave rage arts in the game, if arts are tied to the meter they won't be so annoying, because right now scrubs get heat smashes for cheap pressure AND rage arts when they are low. Just make them choose one option at the cost of a full meter.
I watched ten minutes and this already best Tekken 8 review on platform, thank you. I didn't played Tekken seriously from tekken5, I fell in love with vf5, very strong. Tekken 8 has nice demo version, after it I admit that the game is very good, and bought it. Just recently I've played vf 4 evolution, and it is still my favorite fighting, it is just perfect , love this game
Thank you very much for that kind praise my friend. I was so pleasantly surprised by the release version of tekken 8 that I thought it would be important to discuss why the game is working as specifically as possible ha, to hopefully try to keep Namco on the straight and narrow with the balance of the game :-) also I think it s important that the overall system changes are put into context, because i am digging the direction so far! Great comment my dude 😊
arcade quest is just a tutorial mode in the presentation of an arcade quest mode i hope they release an update where the arcades actually become challenging and replayable
Yeah it is basically a glorified tutorial ha. Luckily after you play through it, you unlock the real single player meat, super ghost battle. Ghost battle is the hotness
@@HighLanderPonyYT I had no clue how to play Tekken and Arcade Quest was really useful and, more importantly, way more fun than a collection of tutorials that you do one after another.
That's nice but it doesn't explain the undercooked presentation. And it's basically just a series of tutorials, just with even more filler and/or bloat then usual. @@rabbyd542
The heat is already a nightmare, devil Jin is broken, Reina is broken, Victor is broken, King is broken, That Coffee Lady is broken, Jin in heat is broken, and don’t get me started on Dragonov…..
Agree on Rage Arts. They're not necessary. Rage is an excellent catch-up mechanic, and that's fine because it means you can't get cocky once you get your opponent low, but the Rage Arts are just filler to do what everyone else is doing. Can't do fatalities, and can't do super arts, so we'll just make these! It's an awful idea, and it encourages people to just rely on it to super armor through what would kill them.
To add context to your claim of "Bamco playing Poker", for about 1-2 year leading up to Tekken 8's release Bamco was showing off the game at events like Evo & Combo Breaker with Harada in attendance to selected attendees (think streamers, pro players, etc). To my knowledge these events required NDAs. Not sure whatever came of this but in my imagination they wanted to know what players thought as the game progressed
Yes what I think they were doing was seeing how far they can push their design changes without damaging the core combat too much. It was a clever approach and I think Namco are far more in touch with their player base than the other fighting game series out there. I m not a fan of heat and meter stuff, but I do respect the hustle ha.
You should watch (if you haven't already) an insider interview/documentary called "Tekken Takes Tokyo"... So, basically Harada is very well known in arcade lounges, 'cause the guy usually goes from lounge to lounge to watch players playing the arcade version of a game to see how it's being received and to get feedback first handed. He also plays with the players sometimes... he's got a pretty sick Feng! xD
thank you very much toni! I'm glad you noticed me leaving room for accounting for how the game might change in the future, because that's a reality of fighting game reviews these days. Where the launch version ends up being the foundation for what the game ultimately becomes down the line. So as of the launch of the game, the foundation is solid. Hopefully Namco keep the fireball characters and crap like that in tekken 7 ha.
It truly is tomokorp, as is the ghost battle system. Since the review I have found some BEAST mode ghosts on the leaderboards. The upper mid rank ghosts are the ones to get.
Great vid. Interesting takes. 17:10 as a Steve player I do appreciate playing a video game a game that rewards pokes and whiff punishes. But after watching this video I wonder about azucena, perhaps the developers added her to shift the playstyle away from rewarding pokes- and yet add the gameplay mechanics players like me satisfying Take this with a grain of salt since I’m far from a pro player. And haven’t played 8
Yes I think the steve players will be happy in t8, since he s got that really strong up close jab game. As far as stuff like counters go, it s really good they buffed throws to deal with them. Throws are unbreakable during counters I believe, so start throwing her if she tries to do all that counter stuff ha. That s a very doa inspired balance shift I think, and I dig it
Exactly, y i picked up the game on launch, cuz of Azucena... I wasn't convinced to get da game cuz of da heat system, then i saw Azucena's trailer and was inspired. She appeared to be d closest thing to a VF character. Up close personal, good ole fisticuffs and i realized after so many failed rematches and rage quites im starting to think it's cuz she's seemingly to simplistic. I go in and crush people with normals alone no fancy stuff, i like it old school. She got a bad rap cuz of her simplicity, people just spam da same shit wit no variation, but i b3 mixin it up, and it got bois heated😊
Thank you for articulating the hard truths about Tekken 8 and the series as a whole better than I could. Personally, the story was awesome and anime AF and I enjoyed every second of it. As for Tekken ball, my inner child is happy lol. Other than that, I wholly agree with you on all fronts.
The most immediate hurdle is gonna be year 1 DLC. The leaked DLC roster looks like a deadly cocktail of weak and unbearably toxic. The big saving grace is how odd SF/Capcom have dealt with their DLC so far despite an amazing launch.
Yeah I think the season 1 stuff is gonna be the make or break moment for the game for sure. It'll show us which direction Namco plan to take the game into the future
If they want it Tekken to play more like virtual fighter old are you really would have to do is nerf the juggling big-time, make the characters combos similar, in Tekken most people combos are completely different it becomes a memorization it’s not intuitive, and make standard combos hurt a little bit more.
Best? NO,it’s the EASIEST Tekken is what it is. That’s why more people are playing and liking it because they think they’re actually when it’s really a nerfed tekken.
There is something kind of funny about them talking about Tekken 7 as their most successful Tekken game given the amount of the they stayed in Tekken 7. Like it took Tekken 7 6 years to surpass Tekken 3’s console sales, with Tekken 3 only having two years before Tekken Tag Tournament came out on PS2. Namco released the first four Tekken games on console in the amount of time Tekken 7 has been hanging around.
He actually did address that early in the vid when he mentioned how often fighting game developers used to come out with spinoff/sequels and how much more wiggle room they had if something didn't work. I'm also willing to bet Tekken 7 probably cost more to make than all those games combined even though it's also regarded as having a very low budget for a modern game.
Sounds awesome. The AI feature in particular is really promising. Should make practice a lot easier, having the repeatability of being able to fight a clone of someone over and over again until you figure out what they're doing.
This guy gets it! I completely agree with your assessment of this game as well as you referring to the best Tekken game as Tekken 5 DR (which will likely never be surpassed). Tekken 8 is overall a nice, fresh addition that has great potential. I wish they would have removed rage arts though as it is a bit much, and the heat system, as nice as it is, could use some tweaks, like the raw activation being a bit wonky with instant armor, safe, "it's my turn now" plus frames.
Very interesting review! Without having played Tekken 8 (my focus is firmly on the other fighting game that just came out), I still feel like I can relate to many of your points.
I m really glad to hear that steve! It s a goal of mine to make the reviews interesting, even if you aren't interested in the game specifically, but rather game design discussion as a whole :-)
You're one of the last gaming channels I'm still subscribed to. I unsubscribed to most of the channels to be a minimalist. I don't even play games that much these days, but your videos (which I got introduced to because of your take on Resident Evil 4 Remake and how it sucks compared to the original which I agree) are just a joy to watch even if it's such long form. Keep up the good work man. You're something special.
Putting aside Ken's weird face I overall like the visual tone of SF6 a good bit more than T8. I feel like T8 lacks a driving theme for its designs and the character designs/redesigns are stronger in SF imo. T8 is incredibly impressive from a visual standpoint and the designs are by no means bad but I think SF was able to transfer into having more realistic texture actually pretty well
Beauty is subjective for sure. But in my eyes I really like the slicker sort of 90s anime vibe of tekken 8 ha. Another thing that's great about t8 is that they took out a lot of the more tacky custom options from the earlier games, so when you play ranked your not fighting people with as many stupid custom outfits ha! I also really like the way the character models look in t8, they look a bit less on roids at SF6 ha.
Great review in general but what the hell were you waffling about in regards to sf6’s visual style? The game looks amazing and is super stylized, not going for a realism style at all.
Thank you very much radiorah! It was really refreshing to play and review :-) I plan on continuing to play the game and make some more vids about it in the future
I've been diggin' this game with Jun. But yeah, I agree, the Rage Art is lame. It's like Drive Impact in SF6; it's just a really boring mechanic to have to have in the back of your mind when it's up. Never feels good to hit someone with it, never feels good to get hit by it; just a meh mechanic. Not to mention the animations take forever. Doesn't kill the game for me, but I'd definitely not complain if it was patched out tomorrow haha
I am ready to accept all bullshit in the game from heat systems to Rage arts to very long combos where you spend 10 seconds hanging in the air or splatted to 2 different walls. But just bring back infinite rematching so one can learn how to deal with all the bullshit. Had to quit the game after realising that bo3 will never recreate the fun i had in T7. All i do is beat people with Feng gimmicks or being beaten by other players gimmicks and move on. I am not really better than those i beat and those who beat me aren't better players than me. It is just that Bo3 setting that are making people steal wins and and act more toxic than before.
as a huge Tekken fan since the series started around 1995, I have found T8 hard to get adjusted to. A lot of combos are broken that worked in Tekken7, I feel like that was a mistake. Overall, I think the game is good but I wish the arcade lobby rooms had functional arcades- pacman, galaga, pinball etc are all in the background but don't function. They could have added in "Tekken force" as an arcade machine as well, many people want that mode to return. Maybe these things will be added in as DLC later.
Oh yeah steve I think it would have been a great addition if they added some classic namco arcade games to the arcade quest. Now that you mention it, it's a huge lost opportunity, I love pac man and ms pac man ha, that would be a cool unlock and reason to revisit the arcade quest stuff.
@@TheElectricUnderground It seemed so obvious to me, I don't know why they didn't do it. Especially since everyone is nagging them for TEKKEN FORCE mode! Why not put an emulated version of Tekken4's Tekken Force in a cabinet.. add online scores and make T8 the best Tekken ever.
In terms of Super Ghosts, I typically only downloaded ghosts from accounts that have super high offensive stats, because then I know that they're gonna rush me down. The players with best defense and adaptability don't have good ghosts.
I played Tekken 3 to Tekken 6 games casually and I was looking very closely to get into Tekken competitively and consider it being my main competitive game that I dedicate time to, but the heat system pushed me away, Tekken already have too many movies and strings and knowledge checks and seeing how the heat system adds even more variables by changing the frame data of some moves was the final nail in the coffin to my interest, this might be fun for the very casual type of player where the playing is already very scrubby but is just too much for someone like me who's actively trying to get better.
Believe it or not, every Tekken is still better at teaching people than the last one. Tekken 8 has frame data, arcade quest and replay takeover with recommended punishes are combos. I guess earlier games like T3-6 do have less of that to learn on paper and as someone who is stubborn, no problem if you want to stick to those and the resources around them.
I never liked meter in SoulCalibur or DOA, but I find rage and heat in Tekken to be a good compromise. Like yes, rage is literally a super move. But you have to be really close to death to even have it as an option, and it's very defendable and punishable. Heat is a decent panic button that encourages offence but I rarely feel like I stole a victory with it.
I have to admit, I played SFV from beta to the launch of SF6 and I didn't care for T7. I picked up T8 on sale and I haven't played SF6 since. I don't think I'll quit SF6 completely but T8 is making it hard to go back right now.
Rage Art is fine. Since they nerfed so many wakeup option in T8, RA is the only thing stopping a rushdown character like dragunov from playing the game like its an anime fighter. Besides RA is not a frame-1 invincibility like their counterpart in lots of 2D games. If you meaty a move while they are getting up, their RA mash will lose.
If VF and DOA were out right now, I don't think I'd be playing much of tekken 8. The heat and rage art is no good. I kept playing someone that kept activating it from the start. I don't like that trying to sidestep moves comes with some homing effect. Even heat has homing. King also has homing as well. Which makes the game forced to come your way. I don't like that moves are somewhat simplified or are attached to heat. And I think the roster is played wayy to safe.
Tekken 8's design and mechanical prowess is uncanny. And above all, the gameplay is fun! I can't wait for Tiffa. Or Mai. Or Cammy. Or~ If the devs continue on their current trajectory, there will be only Tekken ✊
Early days but it's enjoyable and a fun game. It does reward mashing and abare style too much though imo, due to many moves being plus on block so much and the comeback rage super I'm not sure I agree with. Still prefer vf's system although that was starting to go down the Tekken route. Wish we'd see more utilisation of the 3d space, side step is there but very situational use. Again prefer vf's implementation of it.
Forgot to add, simple mode being allowed in ranked is whack. Yes good players will overcome it but this constant trend to dumb everything down, when has that ever worked out well?...
Bamco stock just took a huge dip today after earnings and i bought in. I think the next quarter that includes T8's success will be much better and i was waiting for the opportunity to start a position to support the company
Great review! I was very skeptical of how the game would turn out at launch but seeing the many opinions online it seems it turner out not bad at all and I'm happy for the players. I still think the core updates of this iteration makes the game lose its identity, as you pointed out too with the VF comparison, for the sake of making the game more friendly for spectators and newcomers. New players will still have a bad time nonetheless as they didn't actually solved any of the core problems that makes approach the game from zero not enjoyable. I'm happy for the Arcade quest mode, even though celebrating for the adoption of meaningful single player modes already present in games from the early 2000s speaks volume about the state of the genre... I'm also happy that they made ghosts more interesting, even though Killer Instinct has a more sophisticated implementation that is yet to be seem on other games, after almost a decade. But for me the real problem is how the game will evolve. After season 2 of T7 they made a mess and I don't think it will be better this time
Hmm, I always thought character models in Tekken look kinda generic, and it only made low deliberate use of special effects to keep the fluid presentation clean (and that is also what I wanted when I play tekken). While it is Street Fighter that throws a lot more budget into its art style, models and effects. Interesting to see how perception can differ so much.
Get rid of rage arts, yes please. You shouldn't have too many extra systems that empower the character for no deserved reason. At least give us the option to turn it off.
I have stopped playing Tekken since i played tekken 6. I played TTT2 and Tekken 7 but never liked or played em much. Tekken 8 is so much fun and i love tekken again.
now Fighting Games too? Wow i thought Shmups were allready enough to keep him busy. I only wished Fighting games didnt jump the COD Battlefield GamePass train and became as expensive as they are now.
Really good, chunky and in depth review. Not too much water like Ign. I enjoyed some aspects of launch Street Fighter 5 even though it was far from perfect, but SF5 was a game that was overly micromanaged by Capcom. So many patches and nerfs that completely destroyed fan favorite characters like Nash and Ryu, turned them from strong and entertaining characters to boring lower tier characters. This is one of my main beefs with Mortal Kombat 1, the game was designed to be very balanced which sounds great in theory, but to achieve that many character are just so extremely boring to play as, especially compared to their past iterations. It's a crazy and unexpected pitfall.
@@HighLanderPonyYT I personally dislike short reviews, there's just to much important information that is omitted or lost in short format. I also generally dislike Ign for far too many reasons to name here, they were pretty good in the 90's.
Personally i would be fine if they keep the rage arts. But they should let go of the super armor. Combined with the heat system, it’s too much. Especially because, as you said, if i move my toe, i get blasted out of existence with it and i can’t do anything. I think it would be fine if it would work like drive impact in SF6. Hitting them would stagger the animation and 2-3 punch should break through it. If someone wants to hit me with a rage art, they should put effort into it other than blocking and waiting. Hit me with it at the end of a combo. It’s not a “omg change it or i quit” thing, because Tekken 8 is my favourite modern fighting game by far, but it could be more fair with some tweaks. Overall solid review, +1 sub from me
Wanna hear something funny? I downloaded the demo. Picked up Paul. And man, the SOUND when you land a deathfist, I have never experience satisfaction like that in any fighting game EVER. So I basically bought the game because of the sound design! LOL But now I am enjoying it more now I understand how to play Tekken. I'm very happy I picked this up!
My biggest criticism based on watching only is how some characters look either boring, out of place or visually wonky (like devil jins wings creating lots of visual obstruction)
17:56 That thing about t7 having good tracking all over the place is so true. It made the game so much less "3d". So glad sidetep is more viable especially at intermediate levels.
have you ever tried monster hunter? between world and rise i think rise would be more to your liking. it's faster paced and i think it's more arcade than world.
For all its terrible release, SFV still went on selling 8 million units and having the biggest competitive scene in the genre next to Tekken itself, so I can't really agree with some of the statements here about Street Fighter. Also, by the way, SF6 looks better than T8. No hate on Tekken, it's a good looking game still, but you're not competing with Capcom character design.
Nah, Tekken 3 and Tekken Tag 2 are better. More game modes, more diverse rosters, no bs storymode and no over the top mechanics that make the game worse (heath, rage).
well tekken 3 as I say in the vid, is the classic tekken era, so that wouldn't apply to the modern tekken era comparison. As for tekken tag 2, it does have a lot of cool stuff, but i think it's massive juggle combos and tag assault is even more spammy and obnoxious as rage. The game also has too big of a roster, just an endless ocean of random match up knowledge you need to deal with lol. Also tekken 8's ghost battle mode, where you can pull legit challenging ghosts off the leaderboards from players, is better than any other single player mode in the series. Tag 2 didn't have very good single player by the end, because the ai is too limited as I pointed out in my review.
the only thing i dont like about T8 is that moves feel kinda floaty on block bcs of that wind tunnel sound but it is an impressive first version for a fighting game
Oh yeah I 'm not a fan of the newer sound effects of tekken, they are too dispersed or however to describe it ha. I very much prefer the really crunchy lofi sound effects of the earlier games, they have a real bite to them.
I actually kind of like that we have supers in the game as the rage arts but I hate the way it was implemented as a comeback mechanic, it feels so shoe horned in and gimmicky.
Great vid. But I disagree on the style. Sf style is different, and its all subjective, but I don't see it any worse than tekken. I actually personally think guilty gear style is far more eye pleasing than either of these. The biggest advantage tekken has is the sheer technical graphical resolution - more polygons, textures with more pixels, engine that's newer. But I'm not even sure it translates that well, because in the end I still much more prefer guilty gear look.
Though a great video, one thing you said that's absolutely false is Tekken being historically better graphically than Virtua Fighter. When I heard that...SOUND THE ALARM! Virtua Fighter was always miles ahead until 2007. VF1 - VF3 ran on military grade graphics technology courtesy of Lockheed Martin, the Model 1, Model 2, and Model 3 boards, which the gap got exponentially wider with each one, compared to Namco's PlayStation based System 11, System 22, and System 12 boards. Virtua Fighter 4 was better than Tekken 4 as the NAOMI 2 board was more powerful than Namco System 246. It was when Tekken 6 dropped in 2007, that the flip happened because the Namco System 357 was based off PlayStation 3 (XMB and all), which was stronger than Virtua Fighter 5's Sega Lindbergh board.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
*Update* I recently learned that a lot of moves on whiff have more recovery frames than they did in previous Tekken games, which further supports what I'm saying about Namco making the game more like VF by nerfing the mid poke game :-) and I've also made a vid about the shop dodging critique when the game was released, which isn't cool Namco: ruclips.net/video/2NA7_vCDlyg/видео.html
@VideogamestashboxI still have VF4 and Evoltion for my PS2. Pretty sure VF4 is the one that has a mode for training your AI. Evolution uses ghosts in Quest mode, but you can't train them yourself.
finally bros, the first Tekken review is out.
I m very flattered :-) but also that is true in a lot of ways because no one has really bothered to review the game extensively from what I ve seen ha
One underrated aspect of heat engagement and rage arts is that each provide a universal way to "interrupt" your opponents offense. So I have lots of ways dealing with unga bunga aggression which is oh so common online
Yes this is true, but they can also be used to extend your bunga aggression as well, and they themselves are inherently bunga. So it's not a solution that removes this aspects of this game's design, but instead merely reinforces it. Basically these mechanics are fighting bunga with your own bunga, which I think overall is a deficit on the game's design. What would be better is if Namco tampered down the bunga of the game more in the first place, rather than adding these as sort of band-aid options.
This is a good video. Wanted to add, as an old VF player, that the main reason VF can and is played up close, is because sidestep actually WORKS, in w consistent, systematic and intentional way. If you step, w a single tap up or down. During the start up/active frames of the oppt’s attack, you will step it. The only exceptions being half circular (need to be stepped to front or back side) and full circular (homing) attacks. Tekken’s side step system is more like a rag doll system, where depending on range, attack, character etc, maybe it will work, maybe it won’t. This (and Throw/Mid being the 50/50, not Mid/Low) is why matches are played up close at high speed.
In a video Anakin made last week for beginners, he says plainly ‘I know it seems like you bought this 3D fighting game, and you can just sidestep all these attacks, but it doesn’t really work like that’.
It’s the biggest difference between the 2, and the ways throws work
Oh yes absolutely! 100% on point here, and i really didn't fully learn how to sidestep until playing VF ha. In tekken 7, the sidestep was truly terrible, it made the game extremely linear and risky to get around moves. The good thing is that in t8, I do think they improved the sidestep a lot. It's still not VF tier, but it's a really big improvement and really helps the game to be played more fundamentally I think. Awesome comment.
@@TheElectricUnderground yeah, I don't think Tekken will ever implement a sidestep like VF, because they'd need to re-program and re-balance the whole game. In VF's system, the game recognizes you've stepped, and does the step for you, essentially. If you stepped and there's no attack, you get the failed step animation, where you step, but you're vulnerable. If you stepped properly, there's the audio cue and you're in the clear (there are exceptions of course).
Tekken would have to define how all the attacks worked. IE if a sidestep right vs Paul dependably avoids Deathfist and Demo Man (both right buttons), Paul's 50/50 becomes much less useful. So they'd have to compensate, by say defining Demo Man as 1/2 circular, and the game would change drastically. As someone learning T8 w some intention of getting good at it, except in certain cases, stepping doesn't seem worth the risk; unless I know exactly what's coming & have a good idea of when. Especially in low ranks where spam & strings are rampant.
That's another huge difference: in T8 the 2nd, 3rd or final hit of strings cause crumple or stun, or launch if you get hit on counter, cause you tried to interrupt or you thought the string was done & now you try to jab. Traditionally not the case at all in VF
Ironic how you shil so hard about how sweet side stepping is in VF. But totally forgot the smoothest side stepping is in 3D fighters. Soul caliber and DOA series respectively. Side stepping in both Tekken and Virtua Fighter is unrealistic and janky.
@@MuhammadAli-xw4yc first off , I’m not shilling for anything. VF is a dead series.
Secondly, Soul Calibur’s 8 way run system is completely different from anything in VF or Tekken. Depending on which way you’re moving (vertically, horizontally, on a 45 degree or diagonal axis), the character’s move sets completely change. These commands can all be done from standing motionless, but if the character is already moving along that axis, the full commands aren’t required
I think Soul Calibur is a great game, but it’s movement system isn’t even built around the same ideas as VF and Tekken, which are almost the same, w a few fundamental differences, that we were talking about here and he’s talking about in the video
Your argument is like saying the best stock car racer is a motorcycle. It’s a different thing. Sort of like, the fact that it’s a weapon based fighter.
You only touched on it for like 5 seconds, but I want to give MAJOR props to Arcade Quest, as a filthy casual scrub. It is the type of tutorial I have been screaming for in a FG for YEARS. Rather than being "white room with text boxes" or "mediocre RPG campaign that barely resembles the core gameplay", it is just regular ass Tekken matches against AI designed to test you on specific concepts by having specific quirks and habits. The most fun way to learn how to block mids is to just toss you into a fight against an AI that throws out a lot of mids, but somehow it took us till 2024 for somebody to realize that that is more engaging than sticking me in a training room, showing me a text box explaining "how to block mids," making me do it once, and then moving on like I've mastered the idea.
I wish that it was a little more comprehensive (e.g., throw breaking) and more clearly articulated that it was the tutorial mode so new players would go there first, but it is far and away the most FUN I've had learning how to play a new FG. For context, I am absolutely ASS at FGs, my online winrate on every game I've tried is less than 5%, but Tekken 8 is the first time I've ever actually enjoyed those initial tutorial hours in a game. Its another knockout mode in this game, and Namco deserves some serious credit for it too
If this is what you consider peak, you might have missed the SGs, KI, GG Rev 2, and other tutorials over the years.
they arent engaging in their structure to casuals. no matter how good they are @@HighLanderPonyYT
@@HighLanderPonyYT unless I missed something, isn't KI 2013's tutorial just a couple hours of "practice room with text boxes"? I reinstalled it when it got the next gen update a few months ago I didn't see anything resembling Tekken 8's. Haven't played Skullgirls or Guilty Gear though so maybe those have this sort of "traditional game design" campaign I'm talking about, idk
Yes, KI is in a practice room but the concepts it covers and the scenarios it puts you in are great.
Oh yeah arcade quest is really cool. The fact that I played it and enjoyed it means it's doing something right. I think the mode ends to early and is a bit too easy, but luckily we have super ghost battle for that challenge and longevity.
You talked a lot about VF influence, but not a lot about Dead or Alive given some new stage interactions and gameplay changes... Yohei Shimbori may have joined late in development, but that's the DOA5 and 6 director as Tekken 8's Producer/Director Assistant. Sounds like a good match.
Oh yes you can def feel the doa magic in this game at times. I decided to mostly talk about vf however, because doa is also working off of vf in terms of influence. I do really love doa though
@@TheElectricUnderground True enough, I just thought it was worth mentioning as you similarly suspected that staff changes in the Smash series was a factor in how the series went - not to say I totally agree.
On another note, I'm a Tekken Ball and Force enjoyer and how we can get that legendary game with Tekken Ball AND Tekken Force someday. T4, TTT2 Wii U and T8 did meet us halfway at least.
The story mode having bespoke Force-esque bits is a start but an arcade experience with all playable characters being supported would be preferable or at least a nice extra. Rather pay for that (either T3 or T4 designs are fine) than bowling.
It also helps that Tekken 8 has the lowest input lag of any game in the series. It just feels great.
This is the first tekken game i have ever taken seriously and I'm having a real blast
This is the Tekken game I can take the least seriously because it still has mutant netcode.
@@HighLanderPonyYT I would suggest getting Ethernet. It has been among the most consistent multiplayer experiences I've had.
@@HighLanderPonyYTit actually is better according to tekken world tour winners, I think it’s time to look at your own internet
@@HighLanderPonyYT quit copy pasting your comment. Netcode is a lot better. Either upgrade your ISP, or change your region in your windows settings, or add Tekken 8 firewall exclusions.
I think it's time to look at your copium intake. @@KeithKillingly
The best thing to happen to me this year was finding this channel, I'm subscribed for life 👑🧘🙏
seiichi ishii was the main game designer for VF1 and the first 2 tekken games before starting his own game dev studio dream factory
Oh thats really interesting! For me those early 3d fighters were interesting, but I think where vf as a series really started cooking was the vf3 and vf4 era. Those games are still insane to this day ha. Though vf5 is my fav overall
@@TheElectricUnderground ishii also made ergheiz the final fantasy fighting game
You are misunderstanding the AI implementation in Tekken 8. It's not machine learning, it just picks corresponding moves acc. to situations. Infact if you haven't been in a particular situation the AI won't do anything. It's a flow chart.
How does it compare to killer instinct's try at the concept. (I'd throw samsho into it but that is an utter failure. Feels like its trying to fight someone else half the time.)
Spoiler alert: They blew it. Hope you like battle passes.
It’s insane those assholes waited for all the praise to come in then they do that.
As much as I love Tekken (been playing it since T2), I'm glad you mentioned Tekken taking some things from VF such as Arcade Quest and character customization. I absolutely loved VF 4 Evo and sunk so many hours into that game. Honestly if it wasnt for VF existing, there wouldn't be any Tekken. Didn't one of the guys that worked on VF left Sega for Namco and created Tekken?
How awesome would it be to have a "ghost" battle at the end of a story mode, against an AI that learned from your fights you did during the story. That would be some cool mirror fight, overcome yourself shit.
Oh I love that idea, yeah you fight like this powered up version of yourself that uses your playstyle against you, that's such a cool idea.
Was waiting for you to review this, hell yeah. Also I really like how you strung together all the changes in the series and why they ended up that way. Plus how it all culminates in Tekken 8. Super interesting
Thank you very much chase! I think it s important to add context to how a fighting game series has changed and evolved in my reviews, I think it s really important and interesting
I just want comment on that virtua fighter influence. It appears they also added DOA mechanics too from certain stages having cenematic wall combo transitions. From what I heard that the DOA director had a hand in developing Tekken 8
Yes absolutely! Also on the doa side, the throw system changes are also doa inspired, since doa has a really agro throw system. And of course, the female character models are also looking better ha.
Also this heat system is doa6 feature. Basically Tekken 8 is Doa6 with harder execution.
The worst is when both players have rage art available. Whoever has more health will just block up and try to run down the timer.
OMG yes, rage art wake up attacks are the lamest gameplay dynamic ever.
Great review, dude!
You're absolutely right: the overall package is very solid, but the POTENTIAL for what this game does to change how fighting games are developed going forward is the most interesting part of all. The Super Ghost Battle and Replay Takeover features should be staples of every fighting game from now on, particularly the more competitive-minded fighting games.
I would have liked to see a more in-depth tutorial, something I've been BEGGING Tekken to incorporate for over 20 years. The one we have in T8 functions, but it focuses too much on teaching the Heat System and not enough on basic things like throw breaks and even how to get off the ground.
Thank you very much my dude! I do think I am going to do a tutorial on how the play the game from a more fundamental perspective here very soon! I think the game really needs something like that to be honest. I've been watching a lot of tutorials today and I don't think they are very informative about the heart of the game's combat system.
I dunno how YT algorithm decided to throw in your video on my feed but I'm really glad it did! You are very pleasing to listen to and your way of explaining things is very clear and all the stuff just makes sense. Thank you, sir.
They fucking blew it.
they kinda did
I feel like with a lot of the recent balance and system changes its a lot better, do you still feel that way?
I was a QA tester on Tekken 6 and would play that game for 8 hours at work and then go play for a few more hours at Golfland after work because that game just had such an amazing presentation and feel. There's nothing like playing Tekken 6 on a Namco Noir cab with the volume cranked and hearing that "GET READY FOR THE NEXT BATTLE" with the flames all around. It's a legit gaming moment IMO. Tekken games look, sound and feel amazing to play and just suck you in on sheer presentation alone. SF4/5/6 by contrast have objectively "good graphics" but the style and presentation just doesn't quite match the drip that Tekken oozes from every surface of the game.
Honestly, at this point I think Tekken 8 is already busted. The want to make the game more aggresive, sure... so then, why add heat and rage art? All this does is make the players timid and unwilling to engage. Not to mention, rage also rewards players for losing, which is absurd in my opinion. I've had high hopes for this iteration but eh, I don't vibe with the direction this game is heading.
It's called comeback mechanics. But I personally think rage arts isn't the best way to do it.
@@HighLanderPonyYT I know what they're called. I just don't think "comeback mechanics" are even valid in competetive games. Why aren't there comback mechanics in chess? Starcraft? Boxing? It boils down to the nonsense of rewarding the loser.
I said that implying that you could've just used that term instead of writing that much.
Depends on what the design goes for, ig. It's meant to make games more interesting by lessening slippery slopes.
@@duduoson5278
They're there to make matches less slippery slope-y. Whether that's a good idea or whether they're done right is up for debate.
And I just mentioned the term so that next time you wouldn't have to write that much to get the same idea across.
@@duduoson5278
Rage arts can stay, just make them Heat Arts, tie them to the heat meter. It will add to player's expression, one guy uses heat for heat dash to get bigger combos, other guy uses it for heat smash to get plus on block to keep pressure, and of course scrubs will use it for heat arts, but they are left with nothing for the rest of the round. It's really stupid how such an agressive game like t8 rewards those who get their ass kicked by giving bonus damage and armored super move which deals significant amount of damage, forcing the better player to be timid to engage for a finishing blow.
Heat Smashes are already a sort of Rage Art anyway, making the inclusion of Rage Arts on top all the more baffling and redundant.
@@HighLanderPonyYT I'm all for getting rid of rage arts and rage mechanic in general, but banco won't do it, they are going to leave rage arts in the game, if arts are tied to the meter they won't be so annoying, because right now scrubs get heat smashes for cheap pressure AND rage arts when they are low. Just make them choose one option at the cost of a full meter.
Yeah, I wouldn't expect any sensible design considering it's Bamco we're talking about. @@hombre-lobo5673
Sounds good/better than current. @@hombre-lobo5673
I watched ten minutes and this already best Tekken 8 review on platform, thank you. I didn't played Tekken seriously from tekken5, I fell in love with vf5, very strong. Tekken 8 has nice demo version, after it I admit that the game is very good, and bought it. Just recently I've played vf 4 evolution, and it is still my favorite fighting, it is just perfect , love this game
Enjoy your mutant netcode, consumer.
Thank you very much for that kind praise my friend. I was so pleasantly surprised by the release version of tekken 8 that I thought it would be important to discuss why the game is working as specifically as possible ha, to hopefully try to keep Namco on the straight and narrow with the balance of the game :-) also I think it s important that the overall system changes are put into context, because i am digging the direction so far! Great comment my dude 😊
arcade quest is just a tutorial mode in the presentation of an arcade quest mode
i hope they release an update where the arcades actually become challenging and replayable
AQ is gotta be one of the lowest effort mode I've ever seen in any game.
Yeah it is basically a glorified tutorial ha. Luckily after you play through it, you unlock the real single player meat, super ghost battle. Ghost battle is the hotness
@@HighLanderPonyYT I had no clue how to play Tekken and Arcade Quest was really useful and, more importantly, way more fun than a collection of tutorials that you do one after another.
That's nice but it doesn't explain the undercooked presentation.
And it's basically just a series of tutorials, just with even more filler and/or bloat then usual.
@@rabbyd542
I'm happy for you learning stuff but the presentation of the mode was incredibly undercooked. @@rabbyd542
The heat is already a nightmare, devil Jin is broken, Reina is broken, Victor is broken, King is broken, That Coffee Lady is broken, Jin in heat is broken, and don’t get me started on Dragonov…..
Get good
Agree on Rage Arts. They're not necessary. Rage is an excellent catch-up mechanic, and that's fine because it means you can't get cocky once you get your opponent low, but the Rage Arts are just filler to do what everyone else is doing. Can't do fatalities, and can't do super arts, so we'll just make these! It's an awful idea, and it encourages people to just rely on it to super armor through what would kill them.
To add context to your claim of "Bamco playing Poker", for about 1-2 year leading up to Tekken 8's release Bamco was showing off the game at events like Evo & Combo Breaker with Harada in attendance to selected attendees (think streamers, pro players, etc). To my knowledge these events required NDAs. Not sure whatever came of this but in my imagination they wanted to know what players thought as the game progressed
Yes what I think they were doing was seeing how far they can push their design changes without damaging the core combat too much. It was a clever approach and I think Namco are far more in touch with their player base than the other fighting game series out there. I m not a fan of heat and meter stuff, but I do respect the hustle ha.
No they didn't require nda's and most players spoke immediately after getting the Hands-On
@@MrMooMoo088 aye that's sick, thanks for the clarification!
You should watch (if you haven't already) an insider interview/documentary called "Tekken Takes Tokyo"... So, basically Harada is very well known in arcade lounges, 'cause the guy usually goes from lounge to lounge to watch players playing the arcade version of a game to see how it's being received and to get feedback first handed. He also plays with the players sometimes... he's got a pretty sick Feng! xD
Gem of a review. Its very future proof too. I really liked this you'd nailed it well
thank you very much toni! I'm glad you noticed me leaving room for accounting for how the game might change in the future, because that's a reality of fighting game reviews these days. Where the launch version ends up being the foundation for what the game ultimately becomes down the line. So as of the launch of the game, the foundation is solid. Hopefully Namco keep the fireball characters and crap like that in tekken 7 ha.
really cool video replay option is a gift from the gods
It truly is tomokorp, as is the ghost battle system. Since the review I have found some BEAST mode ghosts on the leaderboards. The upper mid rank ghosts are the ones to get.
They blew it up
Great vid.
Interesting takes.
17:10 as a Steve player I do appreciate playing a video game a game that rewards pokes and whiff punishes.
But after watching this video I wonder about azucena, perhaps the developers added her to shift the playstyle away from rewarding pokes- and yet add the gameplay mechanics players like me satisfying
Take this with a grain of salt since I’m far from a pro player. And haven’t played 8
Yes I think the steve players will be happy in t8, since he s got that really strong up close jab game. As far as stuff like counters go, it s really good they buffed throws to deal with them. Throws are unbreakable during counters I believe, so start throwing her if she tries to do all that counter stuff ha. That s a very doa inspired balance shift I think, and I dig it
Exactly, y i picked up the game on launch, cuz of Azucena...
I wasn't convinced to get da game cuz of da heat system, then i saw Azucena's trailer and was inspired.
She appeared to be d closest thing to a VF character. Up close personal, good ole fisticuffs and i realized after so many failed rematches and rage quites im starting to think it's cuz she's seemingly to simplistic.
I go in and crush people with normals alone no fancy stuff, i like it old school.
She got a bad rap cuz of her simplicity, people just spam da same shit wit no variation, but i b3 mixin it up, and it got bois heated😊
Bandi: Breaths
This guy: Definitely a Virtual Fighter design!!!
Thank you for articulating the hard truths about Tekken 8 and the series as a whole better than I could. Personally, the story was awesome and anime AF and I enjoyed every second of it. As for Tekken ball, my inner child is happy lol. Other than that, I wholly agree with you on all fronts.
The most immediate hurdle is gonna be year 1 DLC. The leaked DLC roster looks like a deadly cocktail of weak and unbearably toxic. The big saving grace is how odd SF/Capcom have dealt with their DLC so far despite an amazing launch.
Yeah I think the season 1 stuff is gonna be the make or break moment for the game for sure. It'll show us which direction Namco plan to take the game into the future
well, they blew it
NAMCO poured a lot of money trying to make this game visually appealing as a 9th generation game....and it shows.
If they want it Tekken to play more like virtual fighter old are you really would have to do is nerf the juggling big-time, make the characters combos similar, in Tekken most people combos are completely different it becomes a memorization it’s not intuitive, and make standard combos hurt a little bit more.
Credits for the thumbnail art? It looks great!
Best? NO,it’s the EASIEST Tekken is what it is. That’s why more people are playing and liking it because they think they’re actually when it’s really a nerfed tekken.
Great video, really enjoying Tekken 8.
Thank you david! I'm really enjoying the game too, which is a pleasant surprise ha.
There is something kind of funny about them talking about Tekken 7 as their most successful Tekken game given the amount of the they stayed in Tekken 7. Like it took Tekken 7 6 years to surpass Tekken 3’s console sales, with Tekken 3 only having two years before Tekken Tag Tournament came out on PS2. Namco released the first four Tekken games on console in the amount of time Tekken 7 has been hanging around.
He actually did address that early in the vid when he mentioned how often fighting game developers used to come out with spinoff/sequels and how much more wiggle room they had if something didn't work. I'm also willing to bet Tekken 7 probably cost more to make than all those games combined even though it's also regarded as having a very low budget for a modern game.
Tekken borrowing from Virtua Fighter isn't that crazy because they both share the same creator, Seichii Ishii.
Sounds awesome. The AI feature in particular is really promising. Should make practice a lot easier, having the repeatability of being able to fight a clone of someone over and over again until you figure out what they're doing.
This guy gets it! I completely agree with your assessment of this game as well as you referring to the best Tekken game as Tekken 5 DR (which will likely never be surpassed). Tekken 8 is overall a nice, fresh addition that has great potential. I wish they would have removed rage arts though as it is a bit much, and the heat system, as nice as it is, could use some tweaks, like the raw activation being a bit wonky with instant armor, safe, "it's my turn now" plus frames.
Very interesting review! Without having played Tekken 8 (my focus is firmly on the other fighting game that just came out), I still feel like I can relate to many of your points.
I m really glad to hear that steve! It s a goal of mine to make the reviews interesting, even if you aren't interested in the game specifically, but rather game design discussion as a whole :-)
You're one of the last gaming channels I'm still subscribed to. I unsubscribed to most of the channels to be a minimalist. I don't even play games that much these days, but your videos (which I got introduced to because of your take on Resident Evil 4 Remake and how it sucks compared to the original which I agree) are just a joy to watch even if it's such long form. Keep up the good work man. You're something special.
Fantastic video..and perfect reasoning behind the HEAT system..i m loving T8 and its ghost system...and the crazy story mode ofc xD
Thank you very much my fazares! I'm enjoying tekken 8 a lot, which is a really pleasant surprise.
Putting aside Ken's weird face I overall like the visual tone of SF6 a good bit more than T8. I feel like T8 lacks a driving theme for its designs and the character designs/redesigns are stronger in SF imo. T8 is incredibly impressive from a visual standpoint and the designs are by no means bad but I think SF was able to transfer into having more realistic texture actually pretty well
Beauty is subjective for sure. But in my eyes I really like the slicker sort of 90s anime vibe of tekken 8 ha. Another thing that's great about t8 is that they took out a lot of the more tacky custom options from the earlier games, so when you play ranked your not fighting people with as many stupid custom outfits ha! I also really like the way the character models look in t8, they look a bit less on roids at SF6 ha.
Great review in general but what the hell were you waffling about in regards to sf6’s visual style? The game looks amazing and is super stylized, not going for a realism style at all.
Fantastic review!
Thank you very much radiorah! It was really refreshing to play and review :-) I plan on continuing to play the game and make some more vids about it in the future
I've been diggin' this game with Jun. But yeah, I agree, the Rage Art is lame. It's like Drive Impact in SF6; it's just a really boring mechanic to have to have in the back of your mind when it's up. Never feels good to hit someone with it, never feels good to get hit by it; just a meh mechanic. Not to mention the animations take forever. Doesn't kill the game for me, but I'd definitely not complain if it was patched out tomorrow haha
Could never stand rage arts and with the heat system it feels like complete overload. Great points. And nice Dead poster 🤘
Fuck you heat is amazing. Lee is EXACTLY FUN NOW! They can’t do the same shit forever.
Nice Bertha in the background
Yes I went to the mall and found the two coolest posters I could find for the art background in my recording shed ha. I really love JoJo s art style.
I am ready to accept all bullshit in the game from heat systems to Rage arts to very long combos where you spend 10 seconds hanging in the air or splatted to 2 different walls.
But just bring back infinite rematching so one can learn how to deal with all the bullshit.
Had to quit the game after realising that bo3 will never recreate the fun i had in T7.
All i do is beat people with Feng gimmicks or being beaten by other players gimmicks and move on.
I am not really better than those i beat and those who beat me aren't better players than me.
It is just that Bo3 setting that are making people steal wins and and act more toxic than before.
as a huge Tekken fan since the series started around 1995, I have found T8 hard to get adjusted to. A lot of combos are broken that worked in Tekken7, I feel like that was a mistake.
Overall, I think the game is good but I wish the arcade lobby rooms had functional arcades- pacman, galaga, pinball etc are all in the background but don't function.
They could have added in "Tekken force" as an arcade machine as well, many people want that mode to return.
Maybe these things will be added in as DLC later.
Oh yeah steve I think it would have been a great addition if they added some classic namco arcade games to the arcade quest. Now that you mention it, it's a huge lost opportunity, I love pac man and ms pac man ha, that would be a cool unlock and reason to revisit the arcade quest stuff.
@@TheElectricUnderground It seemed so obvious to me, I don't know why they didn't do it. Especially since everyone is nagging them for TEKKEN FORCE mode!
Why not put an emulated version of Tekken4's Tekken Force in a cabinet.. add online scores and make T8 the best Tekken ever.
Agreed on "cinematic supers". Get them the fk out of games. They're just a waste of time long term.
In terms of Super Ghosts, I typically only downloaded ghosts from accounts that have super high offensive stats, because then I know that they're gonna rush me down. The players with best defense and adaptability don't have good ghosts.
I played Tekken 3 to Tekken 6 games casually and I was looking very closely to get into Tekken competitively and consider it being my main competitive game that I dedicate time to, but the heat system pushed me away, Tekken already have too many movies and strings and knowledge checks and seeing how the heat system adds even more variables by changing the frame data of some moves was the final nail in the coffin to my interest, this might be fun for the very casual type of player where the playing is already very scrubby but is just too much for someone like me who's actively trying to get better.
Believe it or not, every Tekken is still better at teaching people than the last one. Tekken 8 has frame data, arcade quest and replay takeover with recommended punishes are combos.
I guess earlier games like T3-6 do have less of that to learn on paper and as someone who is stubborn, no problem if you want to stick to those and the resources around them.
I also think the Ghost/AI system sounds really promising and I hope they will go on and do something more with it
I never liked meter in SoulCalibur or DOA, but I find rage and heat in Tekken to be a good compromise. Like yes, rage is literally a super move. But you have to be really close to death to even have it as an option, and it's very defendable and punishable. Heat is a decent panic button that encourages offence but I rarely feel like I stole a victory with it.
We need Julia / Lai / lucky Chloe and kunimitsu back loving tekken 8
Don't clump me with yourself.
Good stuff!
We definitely gotta get some games in at some point.
At least they put the nod to Tekken force in the story mode.
I have to admit, I played SFV from beta to the launch of SF6 and I didn't care for T7. I picked up T8 on sale and I haven't played SF6 since. I don't think I'll quit SF6 completely but T8 is making it hard to go back right now.
Rage Art is fine.
Since they nerfed so many wakeup option in T8, RA is the only thing stopping a rushdown character like dragunov from playing the game like its an anime fighter.
Besides RA is not a frame-1 invincibility like their counterpart in lots of 2D games. If you meaty a move while they are getting up, their RA mash will lose.
I actually think the rage arts are needed now a days cause alot of the popular fighting games have cool finishers
If VF and DOA were out right now, I don't think I'd be playing much of tekken 8. The heat and rage art is no good. I kept playing someone that kept activating it from the start. I don't like that trying to sidestep moves comes with some homing effect. Even heat has homing. King also has homing as well. Which makes the game forced to come your way. I don't like that moves are somewhat simplified or are attached to heat. And I think the roster is played wayy to safe.
Tekken 8's design and mechanical prowess is uncanny. And above all, the gameplay is fun! I can't wait for Tiffa. Or Mai. Or Cammy. Or~
If the devs continue on their current trajectory, there will be only Tekken ✊
Cope, mutant netcode disagrees.
Early days but it's enjoyable and a fun game. It does reward mashing and abare style too much though imo, due to many moves being plus on block so much and the comeback rage super I'm not sure I agree with. Still prefer vf's system although that was starting to go down the Tekken route. Wish we'd see more utilisation of the 3d space, side step is there but very situational use. Again prefer vf's implementation of it.
Forgot to add, simple mode being allowed in ranked is whack. Yes good players will overcome it but this constant trend to dumb everything down, when has that ever worked out well?...
Bamco stock just took a huge dip today after earnings and i bought in. I think the next quarter that includes T8's success will be much better and i was waiting for the opportunity to start a position to support the company
Great review! I was very skeptical of how the game would turn out at launch but seeing the many opinions online it seems it turner out not bad at all and I'm happy for the players.
I still think the core updates of this iteration makes the game lose its identity, as you pointed out too with the VF comparison, for the sake of making the game more friendly for spectators and newcomers. New players will still have a bad time nonetheless as they didn't actually solved any of the core problems that makes approach the game from zero not enjoyable.
I'm happy for the Arcade quest mode, even though celebrating for the adoption of meaningful single player modes already present in games from the early 2000s speaks volume about the state of the genre... I'm also happy that they made ghosts more interesting, even though Killer Instinct has a more sophisticated implementation that is yet to be seem on other games, after almost a decade.
But for me the real problem is how the game will evolve. After season 2 of T7 they made a mess and I don't think it will be better this time
Hmm, I always thought character models in Tekken look kinda generic, and it only made low deliberate use of special effects to keep the fluid presentation clean (and that is also what I wanted when I play tekken). While it is Street Fighter that throws a lot more budget into its art style, models and effects. Interesting to see how perception can differ so much.
LTG should watch this video and learn to be better at the game.
He should start at a therapist.
Get rid of rage arts, yes please. You shouldn't have too many extra systems that empower the character for no deserved reason.
At least give us the option to turn it off.
I'm sure Tekken 7 had me losing hair, could feel the stress on my scalp ha not sure I can do it to myself
I have stopped playing Tekken since i played tekken 6. I played TTT2 and Tekken 7 but never liked or played em much. Tekken 8 is so much fun and i love tekken again.
VF doesn't get the respect it deserves but iykyk
now Fighting Games too? Wow i thought Shmups were allready enough to keep him busy. I only wished Fighting games didnt jump the COD Battlefield GamePass train and became as expensive as they are now.
I really hope Virtua Fighter and Soul Calibur can make big comebacks. And even Dead or Alive🎉
Rage is not bad, literally just block
Really good, chunky and in depth review.
Not too much water like Ign.
I enjoyed some aspects of launch Street Fighter 5 even though it was far from perfect, but SF5 was a game that was overly micromanaged by Capcom.
So many patches and nerfs that completely destroyed fan favorite characters like Nash and Ryu, turned them from strong and entertaining characters to boring lower tier characters. This is one of my main beefs with Mortal Kombat 1, the game was designed to be very balanced which sounds great in theory, but to achieve that many character are just so extremely boring to play as, especially compared to their past iterations.
It's a crazy and unexpected pitfall.
Unfair when IGN's review is also way shorter. Their review was still shit but comparing the two is unfair.
@@HighLanderPonyYT I personally dislike short reviews, there's just to much important information that is omitted or lost in short format.
I also generally dislike Ign for far too many reasons to name here, they were pretty good in the 90's.
Ok.
Personally i would be fine if they keep the rage arts. But they should let go of the super armor. Combined with the heat system, it’s too much. Especially because, as you said, if i move my toe, i get blasted out of existence with it and i can’t do anything. I think it would be fine if it would work like drive impact in SF6. Hitting them would stagger the animation and 2-3 punch should break through it. If someone wants to hit me with a rage art, they should put effort into it other than blocking and waiting. Hit me with it at the end of a combo.
It’s not a “omg change it or i quit” thing, because Tekken 8 is my favourite modern fighting game by far, but it could be more fair with some tweaks. Overall solid review, +1 sub from me
FGC is literally *Self-Sabotaging*
and its not the Devs behind this Push.
Wanna hear something funny? I downloaded the demo. Picked up Paul. And man, the SOUND when you land a deathfist, I have never experience satisfaction like that in any fighting game EVER. So I basically bought the game because of the sound design! LOL But now I am enjoying it more now I understand how to play Tekken. I'm very happy I picked this up!
My biggest criticism based on watching only is how some characters look either boring, out of place or visually wonky (like devil jins wings creating lots of visual obstruction)
I still play a lot of virtua fighter now there is a series that needs to come back. Love it for the fact it’s just straight up martial arts
Great review!
17:56 That thing about t7 having good tracking all over the place is so true. It made the game so much less "3d". So glad sidetep is more viable especially at intermediate levels.
have you ever tried monster hunter? between world and rise i think rise would be more to your liking. it's faster paced and i think it's more arcade than world.
For all its terrible release, SFV still went on selling 8 million units and having the biggest competitive scene in the genre next to Tekken itself, so I can't really agree with some of the statements here about Street Fighter.
Also, by the way, SF6 looks better than T8. No hate on Tekken, it's a good looking game still, but you're not competing with Capcom character design.
This week's update already changed things
I love how Julia is on the thumbnail but she's not even in the game😞😞😞
Nah, Tekken 3 and Tekken Tag 2 are better.
More game modes, more diverse rosters, no bs storymode and no over the top mechanics that make the game worse (heath, rage).
well tekken 3 as I say in the vid, is the classic tekken era, so that wouldn't apply to the modern tekken era comparison. As for tekken tag 2, it does have a lot of cool stuff, but i think it's massive juggle combos and tag assault is even more spammy and obnoxious as rage. The game also has too big of a roster, just an endless ocean of random match up knowledge you need to deal with lol. Also tekken 8's ghost battle mode, where you can pull legit challenging ghosts off the leaderboards from players, is better than any other single player mode in the series. Tag 2 didn't have very good single player by the end, because the ai is too limited as I pointed out in my review.
the only thing i dont like about T8 is that moves feel kinda floaty on block bcs of that wind tunnel sound
but it is an impressive first version for a fighting game
Oh yeah I 'm not a fan of the newer sound effects of tekken, they are too dispersed or however to describe it ha. I very much prefer the really crunchy lofi sound effects of the earlier games, they have a real bite to them.
I actually kind of like that we have supers in the game as the rage arts but I hate the way it was implemented as a comeback mechanic, it feels so shoe horned in and gimmicky.
Still trying to get used to Tekken 8. Side stepping feels really ineffective compared to VF or SC!
Julia is my main. I need her back
Great vid. But I disagree on the style. Sf style is different, and its all subjective, but I don't see it any worse than tekken. I actually personally think guilty gear style is far more eye pleasing than either of these. The biggest advantage tekken has is the sheer technical graphical resolution - more polygons, textures with more pixels, engine that's newer. But I'm not even sure it translates that well, because in the end I still much more prefer guilty gear look.
Though a great video, one thing you said that's absolutely false is Tekken being historically better graphically than Virtua Fighter. When I heard that...SOUND THE ALARM! Virtua Fighter was always miles ahead until 2007. VF1 - VF3 ran on military grade graphics technology courtesy of Lockheed Martin, the Model 1, Model 2, and Model 3 boards, which the gap got exponentially wider with each one, compared to Namco's PlayStation based System 11, System 22, and System 12 boards.
Virtua Fighter 4 was better than Tekken 4 as the NAOMI 2 board was more powerful than Namco System 246. It was when Tekken 6 dropped in 2007, that the flip happened because the Namco System 357 was based off PlayStation 3 (XMB and all), which was stronger than Virtua Fighter 5's Sega Lindbergh board.