@@neilberry7345 in the morning earth will be wet no matter if its a dry weather because of the condensation. Its much better to have something beneath the tent and not to risk being wet in the morning.
I found out the hard way that the footprint needs to be smaller when I made my own for an MSR Hubba Hubba. It was great having a few feet extra while it was dry. And then one day it rained. ...
Never used one until a camping van tour (TrekAmerica) in USA. I’d always had a congested chest after the 1st nights in Victoria (Australia) camping overnight. 1st night at a Finger Lakes I woke up in the morning with the congested chest, and noticed that the only spot that wasn’t damp on the tent floor was the bit under my closed cell foam mat. Putting 2 and 2 together, I bought some garbage bags and taped them together to act as a barrier to rising damp. Haven’t had a congested chest since, with the added benefit of a clean surface to pack up the tent. Plastic bags are very lightweight and super cheap. Also it doesn’t matter if there are holes in the plastic, it only has to do enough.
A footprint covering the the porch is a must for keeping ticks and midges under control in Scotland, and protecting base of tent against gnarly old heather branches / stems. Dont use one in campsites tho, even if multidaying.
I use an old tarp and just fold it under once I'm set up. Handy as well to give you some extra vestibule space to get your muddy boots back on without necessarily getting your tent mucky. Never let me down and never had any issues with pooling water - as long as you fold everything under properly when it's lashing down the jobs a good-un 👌
I first used a "footprint" under my Saunders fellpine in the 80s. It was my poly survival bag so I was carrying it anyway. My helium 1 has a great footprint.I use a square of tyvek with the Durston X-mid. I like having foot prints for the reasons you gave for lying down before I pitch, keeping the groundsheet clean, a dry vestibule and a modicum of protection. Also it helps showing if the Durston will fit on the pitch😅😅
@@BrokenBackMountains ah, Robert Saunders tents! I had the Backpacker Gc2 I think. Still got it.....a brilliant tent. Saunders was years ahead of his time.
I have used an orange survival bag all the time but you're idea of attaching bungee is a great and your technique of putting up the outer first to make a dry space to take off wet gear is an eye opener . Just great advice
I always use a footprint beneath my tents. I use a regular roughly 8x10 ft. blue tarp. I can’t double it over or even triple-fold it to get both a ground protector & enhanced tent floor padding. When I pack up I don’t have to struggle cleaning dirt, mud or other organic material off the bottom of my tent because the footprint protected the tent.
With the cost of tents being silly these days , I made a footprint from tyvek as I can only afford one tent and will look after it , it's not even a Hilleberg ( the only tent that requires a mortgage 😂) . Plus me and my tent head off around the world and it saves my bath tub floor from getting abraded or torn , and as you mentioned I noticed less condensation even though the inner has less net and more material . Being an all in one pitch I have never pitched outer first but if it's as wet as it was last year on expedition , I will try the inner in a separate bag and clip on inside , but yes I am pro footprint and no I don't attach to the tent 😊
Great video. I am a fan of footprints, despite a bit of extra weight. The extra layer reduces the risk of punctures to your sleeping pad from thistles or twigs etc, plus all the reasons you said
Paul, you make a very good case for footprints. Your key point: keeping your inner tent drier! I had forgotten that argument. SO it's good to be reminded of it! ATB!😃
Have always used a footprint Paul for all the reasons you have given.. In the past I have always made my own from lightweight tarpaulin... Of late i have actually purchased the footrint from the manufacturer.... Great video... Always learn something from your videos..👍⛺
I have one proper footprint for my vango apex2, for my other two tents i have cheap ten quid tarps from eBay, the only reason i use them is to keep the bottom of the tent from getting dirty, it's so easy to clean the tarp and it helps keep the tent in better condition so they last longer
My country, necessary. Things poke thru without. Keep mine attached all the time. I have a green tarp I've used most of 45 years. It always goes with me. Good vid. Just don't let it stick out the side and let water run under tent. Handy to have a dry bottom on the tent packing up. A very handy and smart item to use. Ready for another night. Hopefully dry. All good from east Kentucky USA Next time
I used my first tent from the mid seventies to the mid nineties. Didn't know footprints were a thing and never had a problem with the tent floor. Then, while hiking the AT I met several people using footprints. I can see that on thruhikes that last months a footprint can be a good idea simply to keep the bottom cleaner when you don't have any chance of cleaning it for weeks or months. So, I bought the thinnest drop cloth I could find. It weighed next to nothing and cost next to nothing and it was useful, particularly on heavily used campsites with dirt or mud instead of grass. Don't last forever, but I just replace it when necessary.
Very informative. My Featherstone Peridot 2P included a footprint, but I had never thought to pitch it without the inner. I sometimes use it without the rain fly, but the bug net is a tent's most important feature for me. I only use the rain fly if it's raining. I remembered the footprint as roughly the size of the floor of the tent, and it is the size of the bathtub floor, but it's smaller than the outer as you suggest here. After seeing this video, I pitched the tent (in my living room as it was raining) with only the footprint and the fly, and it is designed to be pitched this way. Attaching the inner to the poles with the fly attached is possible, but my first attempted failed when the poles collapsed. Attaching the inner to the poles adds tension and helps prevent poles slipping out of the hub. I also need to stake out the corners and couldn't do it in my living room. My second attempt succeeded though. I hope that I'll never try this maneuver in real life, but I'm glad that I've seen you do it.
Ok, begrudgingly, you may have convinced me. The idea of being able to keep the inner dry seems pretty good, especially when most of my camps are multiday affairs.
Paul, I agree with your comments. However, for a number of years I used what was a roof rack luggage cover, the thick blue things with eyelets. I cut this to a size slightly bigger than the base of my Banshee 200, but used to ensure it was tucked up between the fly and the inner. Never had a problem with it. Used on UK camping trips, on cycle camping trips in Germany, Netherlands and France....never let me down. Not long changed my Banshee (still have it) for the Wild Country Helm Compact 2...mainly as a 72 year old I don't bend as well as I used to for the Banshee. Have found the Helm 2 gives me more head room and space generally. I did buy the foot print for this and as you say a negative is the price....think about £40.00 but have used in on a number of occasions and it does the job nicely. I would always use some kind of footprint to protect the groundsheet of any tent. Good video. Thanks for putting the topic out there.
Tyvek all day long PM. Have it for all 3 of my tents with the biggest one being 2 x 4 mtrs. There is a puncture comparison vid out there too. Eye opener.
@@titanicicaproduction ruclips.net/video/LNYGXDgc2-M/видео.html Hopefully the link works? my main permission is covered in bramble and i am very careful about where i place the sheet. Doesnt matter if the sheet gets a hole but my air bed is a different story.
Glad you've got your mojo back Paul, loving your recent vids again. Waiting on the ultralight Ti cookkit from Kickstarter that you recommended. On footprints, my experience is with big family tents and there is no way I'd pitch one of those without a footprint.
Paul, I think you have highlighted the main benefits really well in the video. Thanks for doing this. Im in two minds whether to get one for my Helm2 Compact. As you the say quite expensive at £44 but fitted to the shape. Protecting the inner floor is the main benefit for me I reckon as this is protecting the tent itself. Packing up in the rain also a good benefit. I think Im sold🙂
I have got the TN one for Helm compact 2 and very happy with it. The main thing apart from protecting the ground sheet, is that it sized to line both porches and protects kit in there.
Good to see you get the photon 1 out. Still one of my favourite shelters - rarely use it but would never sell it and I’ve always taken out a footprint when using it. I picked up a cheap zephyros footprint which is more less same size as laser and photons. I do go out without footprints depending on location, weather and estimated pack weight. I’ve got friends who are resolutely against them but I like them in certain circumstances. I’m not convinced that they reduce condensation but there are still other benefits.
I use a footprint at all times. Mainly for protecting the bottom of my tents. £80 is expensive for the Hilleberg Soulo, but how much would it cost to repair the floor of the tent. Small price to pay for peace of mind on your expensive tent.
I have 5 man tent, and it's footprint is 5x as big for half the price. Having somewhere to kneel for the final roll up before it goes in the bag is a blessing.
I've been camping for 45 years and have yet to pitch a tent without a groundsheet (bespoke or DIY). In my opinion, the benefits are too numerous not to.
Nice! As a point of balance though: I've also been camping for 45 + years and I've never once used (or wished I had) a groundsheet/footprint! Having said which, I've just bought a new car-camping tent to use with the Mrs (who does not like backpacking like I do) and I've bought the footprint for it to manage the mess more easily! I'll see if I like the idea!
@@dcaudwellI’m like you, never bothered with a footprint ever but after the last trip with our lass in the big campsite tent I understand the use of a footprint for a family tent cause they are not fun to clean 🤣
My experience is that I'm always camping in places that are sandy, have lots of small pine needles (like hemlock) and there's ample ground moisture. So, in the morning when I lift that groundsheet, there's dirt and needles well stuck to the underside. Even if I shake it hard, I can't avoid taking on a few more ounces of debris. I certainly wouldn't want that on the bottom of my tent as I roll it up. My tent is 80% mesh so some of that debris is going to get on the mesh or worse. I can fold up the polycro ground sheet with the remaining debris inside, stick it into a ziplock and stuff it in an outer pocket if necessary.
For protection, I find footprints a must. I buy tents second hand sometimes, and the groundsheet on the Vango Omega 350 I bought used was peppered with holes. I also sell my tents in as best a condition as I can. Cheap tarpaulins can be modified to suit with eyelet kits, or aftermarket footprints can be bought.
There are many Pro’s to using a footprint. The No1 Pro (in my eyes) of using a footprint is; you can fold the muddy side of the footprint over on itself, fold it up small and stick it separately in a waterproof bag. Keeping the mud etc off everything thing else, especially your inner tent. A quick sponge down after use, and dry off. The only possible Con is the extra money, if one isn’t supplied with the tent.
Interesting video Paul, I will only use a footprint if it covers the tent vestibule, I like the extra usable space this provides, especially in wet or snow, I don't use them to protect tent floor as I feel the floor should be strong in it's own right
Possibly depends on where you live, the weather and the critters you have to deal with. In Texas, in general, you’d be crazy not to have a footprint . Maybe in the UK you can get away without it.
Same for Hawaii. It’s usually damp or kinda muddy where you camp so never hurts to have one. Also we mostly don’t use specific footprints for a tent, we just buy a cheap tarp that we use to take whatever damage that the ground may do to a tent so we don’t have to replace our expensive tent and just have to replace a cheap tarp.
Great video, well explained. I have the Nature hike Mongar2 and it came with a ground sheet, its great being able to put up and take down the inner in bad weather 👍
A good tent has a proper groundsheet and doesn't need a seperate "foorprint", it's a way companies make money, use a cheap crappy groundsheet to start with and then sell a seperate one as well. I have a 2 man tent that weighs 3.75 pounds that I bought in 1977, it has a decent "Oxford Raffia " built in groundsheet and is as good today as when I first bought it, and it's had some heavy use over the years.
One of my tents the MSR came with a footprint all good. I made one for my Durston and I am now making one for my Pioneer Tent out of nylon fabric I am adding on the vestibule space and giving one side a PU coating.
All of the really light tents have gossamer like groundsheets. Totally impractical but enables light statistics. I've always added footprints thinking what a con that was ! My favourite is actual groundsheets from 'disposable' festival tents. Just cut them up to fit and add some eyelets.
Never used a foot print, even my old Notch is fine if your careful with it, both my Hillebergs don’t need one at all, I’ve got another old Akto, 26 yrs old and still fine! That’s really why I go for Hillebergs as the PU coating on the floors are fab! My summer kit with the Enan is 11.2lbs once you start adding foot prints….😂
I always use a footprint with my tents for all the reasons you describe. My one niggle with my Durston Xmid 1 is that the footprint only covers the area of the inner tent, not the whole area of the outer. I suppose I should get around to making one sometime.
When I backpack I usually don't bring a footprint in order to save weight (especially for longer disttances). So far no holes in the tent floor have ever occurred. If I did ever get a hole in the bottom of the tent then well, that's what tenacious tape is for.
I am pro footprints, great for moisture management. Also to prevent wear during windy nights when pitched on sand and rocks. In states on Amazon lots of aftermarket footprints available for 20.
Just a thought, why not have the outer fly with the footprint and not bother with the inner tent? Apart from protecting you from bugs, snakes, etc. (Which let’s be honest are not normally a major problem in the uk) and maybe helping a little with condensation. Seems to me that for the weight and pack size, you get more benefits from the footprint than you do the inner plus you end up with more space. I’d be interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts.
Alot depends on the actual tent, who's using it and what time of year. I have a Wild Country Hoolie 3 ETC which is the one with extended vestibule and porch, My 2 young children and I use this all year, so it can be dark by 5pm so maximising use of dry, clean space in and out of the inner is essential, especially when raining. If I/ we were lightweight backpacking in the lighter, dryer seasons I wouldn't take it. This is why I don't support the comments saying tents should have heavy duty ground sheets, I'd rather have a lightweight ground sheet and the option of a footprint when required. So I can't see how people can have a definitive opinion in general on having a footprint. It's depends upon the person, their tent and when and where they're going and in my case, the two children who with. Thanks for the video and comments.
Huge fan of footprints. Help protect the expensive tent. Man up and carry the extra weight and bit the bullet on cost, at least for me!!! Each to their own.
Hi Paul,I am a big fan of your channel and also love terra nova and wild country tents,which it would appear you do too😀. I have a first gen helm one which I love for it's ease of pitching and that I can sit up in it!👍. I have a footprint for it which I bought too give the tent a bit more protection,and I like having the piece that extends into the porch section. I think footprints are so good when your taking your tent down and how it keeps the inner dry.. But honestly you have blown my mind with the idea of pitching the outer over the footprint then setting up the sleep system but sitting on the inner!. I can't wait to try this!. I have just bought a exped versa 2r and wondered what your thoughts are or if you have tried one?. Thank you for doing incredible content!!. Look forward to the next video😀 Regards matt
One scenario where it could be very useful is if you’re camping with someone else, both with one-man tents, and one of the tents is damaged or destroyed in high winds, for example. By dropping or removing the inner of the surviving tent, two could generally fit in as an emergency measure.
Simple question for me: Do I want abrasive heather roots, sharp bracken, sheep poo, mud etc on the bottom of my £10 piece of Tyvek or on the bottom of my expensive tent groundsheet?
The reason I like using a thick footprint is because if I pitch my tent on WET Grass, the dampness seeps through the tent floor and makes the inside of my tent damp and my sleeping bag damp etc. Having a thick plastic foot print keeps the tent floor completely dry.
That seems like a whole lot of effort for minimal benefit. I do see your point, and perhaps I'm really fortunate to have a Hilleberg tent? This has a water repellent inner, which whilst it does get wet when you pack it away "all in one" it dries with 20 minutes of repitching. I bring a cloth to wipe down the inside of the ground sheet and in good to go.
The only times I'd use a footprint is 1. When I expect rocky ground, for protection as you say or 2. With my Nordisk Lofiten whose groundsheet is ridiculously thin
I have always used a footprint , mind you i was useing Nature Hike tents and the ones i had came with the footprint and as i was camping on a beach the footprint was a bit of extra protection .
I have the Laser Compact 1 and may now 'need' to buy the footprint 😅. I'd love a video on the different options and mods for the door on this tent. Seen the odd picture but not a detailed video. I've put an extra long bungy on mine so I can tie it off on several pegged out points but I'm sure theres better options.
I've the same tent, and I love the outer and ground sheet combo. It's so quick to pitch and get out of the rain, before sorting yourself out. The faff of putting the inner up separately is worth it imo. I do struggle to keep the outer off the inner in the morning though, especially opening a wet door, which is frustrating.
The main reason I use one, is to reduce condensation. And, clipping the inner into my tent just last night, on pretty wet ground, was considerably less unpleasant than if I didn't have it. I use a polycryo sheet I bought for very little and it weighs so close to nothing it's almost ridiculous.
If your expensive tent needs a ground sheet then your expensive tent company needs to be told that they need to improve their bathtubs on their tents. I've definitely owned a few tents that needed a ground sheet. But my last 4 haven't needed one. I usually have single walled tents so I'm not gonna get inside out of the rain and set it up anyhow. :( haha I did finally get a free standing tent for this next spring when I'm heading over to Ireland to do the Irish Way, and then to Wales to do their new trail. I'll probably jump over to Scotland and do a trail or two after. And Last time I hiked Ireland and Scotland I regretted having a Trekking Pole tent, so many times the ground was so rocky It was hard getting stakes in. And you guys' wind is rough. I've only had similar wind a few times on the American trails. Hopefully I'll have better weather too. When I did Oban to St Andrew and the Fife Coastal Way it rained 27 of the days in May. It reminded me of the Appalachian Trail!
Here's my take , Tent manufacturers make lighter and lighter tents at the expense of durability so a footprint is required to stop holes in the floor of your tent , Add the weight of a footprint and you increase the weight of your lightweight tent . It was same when hammocks first became popular they were lightweight until people realised you needed underquilts air mats tarps tree huggers then your hammock became heavier than your lightweight tent . Just make tent bases tougher the only way you got a hole in old taffeta style tent floors was when you dropped your cigarette , If you say your lightweight tent is a kilo Add the weight of the footprint and it isn't And most footprints aren't much tougher than tent floor . 🤷
I've been using a wild country tent of a name I can't remember for over 20 years, and it never had a footprint. This always annoyed me as the porch was open to the ground, so I improvised a one, sort of worked. I've finally released the moths from my wallet and bought a zephyros compact 2 for £70 sports direct, and the footprint was £10 no brainer 😮
@@allanmacleod2234 I get my tyvek on Amazon for a couple of £ per M. I use the house wrap stuff and cut to size. You can get eyelet holes with the punch too but I never bother. I just put up my geodesic inner and then slide the tyvek underneath. Worked for years, no issues
@@allanmacleod2234 You can't you will need to.sew the bits together, the durston x mid is a real pain to.make a ground sheet for as it's such an odd shape
I bought a 0.6 kg heavy duty tarp from Decathlon as a groundsheet on Iceland (extremely sharp gravel). Haven't bothered replacing it since. Both my tent floor and the tarp still look brand new. The tarp is actually larger than the tent footprint. I just fold the excess tarp upwards, creating a tub with walls that even cover the standoff distance between outer tent and the ground - perfect when it rains horizontally!
Your biggest advantage is worst reason as if raining it'll drip on footprint and get you wet bum unless close door in some conditions ;) whereas no footprint get to inner and be dry and use porch and rain drips soaks into grass ;)
I started camping in the early 1980s before the salesmen invented the foot print, in all that time I've never found a reason for taking up space in, or adding weight to my pack with one. As for paying £200 for one? Sounds like a blatant con job to me, but then, I only paid £80 for my Vango. 😉
@@davedthomas01 I started too in the early 80s and rapidly realised that a footprint was needed on lightweight tents. They didn't use the rubber (Force 10) or raffia type groundsheet. I just used the poly survival bag I carried anyway and it meant a few years extra life on the tent.
£200 for a footprint is absolutely taking the piss
😂
One big advantage is if the ground is muddy. You only clean the groundsheet and not the tent. Especially important if you have a big family tent
yes of course!
@@neilberry7345 in the morning earth will be wet no matter if its a dry weather because of the condensation. Its much better to have something beneath the tent and not to risk being wet in the morning.
100%
Thanks captain obvious
You definitely should get a footprint to protect your insanely expensive footprint.
😂 don’t give companies ideas like that
Thats funny because my family tent has an inner ground sheet, and I also lay a tarp down and pitch the tent on top of that 😂 same difference
A good option on footprint is a cheap shower curtain
Never thought of that! Nice one mate
Now that's a brilliant idea 🤔....Nice one! 👍
Tyvek building wrap is cheap and waterproof. I use 2mil painter drop cloth plastic too.
Grandma Gatewood would approve of your proposal.
@@Vtoroypilot2And Edward Woodward would!
I found out the hard way that the footprint needs to be smaller when I made my own for an MSR Hubba Hubba. It was great having a few feet extra while it was dry. And then one day it rained. ...
Never used one until a camping van tour (TrekAmerica) in USA. I’d always had a congested chest after the 1st nights in Victoria (Australia) camping overnight. 1st night at a Finger Lakes I woke up in the morning with the congested chest, and noticed that the only spot that wasn’t damp on the tent floor was the bit under my closed cell foam mat. Putting 2 and 2 together, I bought some garbage bags and taped them together to act as a barrier to rising damp. Haven’t had a congested chest since, with the added benefit of a clean surface to pack up the tent. Plastic bags are very lightweight and super cheap. Also it doesn’t matter if there are holes in the plastic, it only has to do enough.
I always use a footprint. It reduces condensation considerably, and it protects the groundsheet.
Thanks
We're Full time UK Nomads, have never used one. Have in the past, but hate them Cully. Keep up the good work.
A footprint covering the the porch is a must for keeping ticks and midges under control in Scotland, and protecting base of tent against gnarly old heather branches / stems.
Dont use one in campsites tho, even if multidaying.
Why not in campsites too?
I use an old tarp and just fold it under once I'm set up. Handy as well to give you some extra vestibule space to get your muddy boots back on without necessarily getting your tent mucky. Never let me down and never had any issues with pooling water - as long as you fold everything under properly when it's lashing down the jobs a good-un 👌
I first used a "footprint" under my Saunders fellpine in the 80s. It was my poly survival bag so I was carrying it anyway.
My helium 1 has a great footprint.I use a square of tyvek with the Durston X-mid.
I like having foot prints for the reasons you gave for lying down before I pitch, keeping the groundsheet clean, a dry vestibule and a modicum of protection. Also it helps showing if the Durston will fit on the pitch😅😅
@@BrokenBackMountains ah, Robert Saunders tents! I had the Backpacker Gc2 I think. Still got it.....a brilliant tent. Saunders was years ahead of his time.
@@wiltonlewis5369 Alas, my Fellpine fell victim to UV and a lot of use. Great tents ahead of their time.
I never used to like them.. having to retire one of my tents because the bottom went , changed my mind...Take care out there.
I have used an orange survival bag all the time but you're idea of attaching bungee is a great and your technique of putting up the outer first to make a dry space to take off wet gear is an eye opener . Just great advice
I always use a footprint beneath my tents. I use a regular roughly 8x10 ft. blue tarp. I can’t double it over or even triple-fold it to get both a ground protector & enhanced tent floor padding. When I pack up I don’t have to struggle cleaning dirt, mud or other organic material off the bottom of my tent because the footprint protected the tent.
With the cost of tents being silly these days , I made a footprint from tyvek as I can only afford one tent and will look after it , it's not even a Hilleberg ( the only tent that requires a mortgage 😂) .
Plus me and my tent head off around the world and it saves my bath tub floor from getting abraded or torn , and as you mentioned I noticed less condensation even though the inner has less net and more material . Being an all in one pitch I have never pitched outer first but if it's as wet as it was last year on expedition , I will try the inner in a separate bag and clip on inside , but yes I am pro footprint and no I don't attach to the tent 😊
Great video. I am a fan of footprints, despite a bit of extra weight. The extra layer reduces the risk of punctures to your sleeping pad from thistles or twigs etc, plus all the reasons you said
Paul, you make a very good case for footprints. Your key point: keeping your inner tent drier! I had forgotten that argument. SO it's good to be reminded of it! ATB!😃
Nice to see you again Paul putting your tent up hope all is well good video stay safe and stay healthy one life enjoy blessed be
Today was a good learning day, I have never considered them before but will sort one out for my lovely new tent. Thanks Paul.
car camping years ago I use closed foam mats under the groundsheet. helps to keep in the heat. and saved the base of the tent.
Have always used a footprint Paul for all the reasons you have given.. In the past I have always made my own from lightweight tarpaulin... Of late i have actually purchased the footrint from the manufacturer.... Great video... Always learn something from your videos..👍⛺
I always use a footprint, I saw your video a few years ago and made one out of polycro and I swear by it.
Always use with my Lanshan 1 and have pitched the fly & footprint for a rainy lunch stop
I have one proper footprint for my vango apex2, for my other two tents i have cheap ten quid tarps from eBay, the only reason i use them is to keep the bottom of the tent from getting dirty, it's so easy to clean the tarp and it helps keep the tent in better condition so they last longer
My country, necessary. Things poke thru without. Keep mine attached all the time. I have a green tarp I've used most of 45 years. It always goes with me. Good vid. Just don't let it stick out the side and let water run under tent. Handy to have a dry bottom on the tent packing up. A very handy and smart item to use. Ready for another night. Hopefully dry. All good from east Kentucky USA Next time
I used my first tent from the mid seventies to the mid nineties. Didn't know footprints were a thing and never had a problem with the tent floor. Then, while hiking the AT I met several people using footprints. I can see that on thruhikes that last months a footprint can be a good idea simply to keep the bottom cleaner when you don't have any chance of cleaning it for weeks or months. So, I bought the thinnest drop cloth I could find. It weighed next to nothing and cost next to nothing and it was useful, particularly on heavily used campsites with dirt or mud instead of grass. Don't last forever, but I just replace it when necessary.
Very informative. My Featherstone Peridot 2P included a footprint, but I had never thought to pitch it without the inner. I sometimes use it without the rain fly, but the bug net is a tent's most important feature for me. I only use the rain fly if it's raining.
I remembered the footprint as roughly the size of the floor of the tent, and it is the size of the bathtub floor, but it's smaller than the outer as you suggest here. After seeing this video, I pitched the tent (in my living room as it was raining) with only the footprint and the fly, and it is designed to be pitched this way.
Attaching the inner to the poles with the fly attached is possible, but my first attempted failed when the poles collapsed. Attaching the inner to the poles adds tension and helps prevent poles slipping out of the hub. I also need to stake out the corners and couldn't do it in my living room. My second attempt succeeded though. I hope that I'll never try this maneuver in real life, but I'm glad that I've seen you do it.
Ok, begrudgingly, you may have convinced me. The idea of being able to keep the inner dry seems pretty good, especially when most of my camps are multiday affairs.
Paul, I agree with your comments. However, for a number of years I used what was a roof rack luggage cover, the thick blue things with eyelets. I cut this to a size slightly bigger than the base of my Banshee 200, but used to ensure it was tucked up between the fly and the inner. Never had a problem with it. Used on UK camping trips, on cycle camping trips in Germany, Netherlands and France....never let me down.
Not long changed my Banshee (still have it) for the Wild Country Helm Compact 2...mainly as a 72 year old I don't bend as well as I used to for the Banshee. Have found the Helm 2 gives me more head room and space generally. I did buy the foot print for this and as you say a negative is the price....think about £40.00 but have used in on a number of occasions and it does the job nicely. I would always use some kind of footprint to protect the groundsheet of any tent.
Good video.
Thanks for putting the topic out there.
Tyvek all day long PM. Have it for all 3 of my tents with the biggest one being 2 x 4 mtrs. There is a puncture comparison vid out there too. Eye opener.
Could you share the link pleaae?
Like my homemade Tyvek foot prints. A friend who was building, gave me the remnant of the roll. Still have a bit left
@@titanicicaproduction ruclips.net/video/LNYGXDgc2-M/видео.html
Hopefully the link works? my main permission is covered in bramble and i am very careful about where i place the sheet. Doesnt matter if the sheet gets a hole but my air bed is a different story.
@@hubby-tubadventures01 thanks for the link, that was really interesting
@@hubby-tubadventures01 thankyou, that was a great insight 👍
Glad you've got your mojo back Paul, loving your recent vids again. Waiting on the ultralight Ti cookkit from Kickstarter that you recommended.
On footprints, my experience is with big family tents and there is no way I'd pitch one of those without a footprint.
Foot print of some sort for me definitely, keeps bottom of tent clean which was why I used one.
5 really good points raised. Thank you. Excellent video
I've not long bought a Helm 1 + footprint after watching your videos. Awesome tent but the footprint just elevates it further 👌🏻
Good skills Paul. You make it look easy.
Paul, I think you have highlighted the main benefits really well in the video. Thanks for doing this. Im in two minds whether to get one for my Helm2 Compact. As you the say quite expensive at £44 but fitted to the shape. Protecting the inner floor is the main benefit for me I reckon as this is protecting the tent itself. Packing up in the rain also a good benefit. I think Im sold🙂
I have got the TN one for Helm compact 2 and very happy with it. The main thing apart from protecting the ground sheet, is that it sized to line both porches and protects kit in there.
Good to see you get the photon 1 out. Still one of my favourite shelters - rarely use it but would never sell it and I’ve always taken out a footprint when using it. I picked up a cheap zephyros footprint which is more less same size as laser and photons. I do go out without footprints depending on location, weather and estimated pack weight. I’ve got friends who are resolutely against them but I like them in certain circumstances. I’m not convinced that they reduce condensation but there are still other benefits.
I use a footprint at all times. Mainly for protecting the bottom of my tents. £80 is expensive for the Hilleberg Soulo, but how much would it cost to repair the floor of the tent. Small price to pay for peace of mind on your expensive tent.
I agree! I have a Big Agnus Copper Spur and this works very well doing a fly first set up!
Some freestanding inner first tents such as Naturehike Mongar 2 can be set up outer first with a footprint which is a lifesaver if it's raining.
I have 5 man tent, and it's footprint is 5x as big for half the price. Having somewhere to kneel for the final roll up before it goes in the bag is a blessing.
My Naturehike came with one... very pleased with mostly cleaning that instead of the inner. Tyvek or whatever, make it happen. So easy.
I've been camping for 45 years and have yet to pitch a tent without a groundsheet (bespoke or DIY).
In my opinion, the benefits are too numerous not to.
Nice! As a point of balance though: I've also been camping for 45 + years and I've never once used (or wished I had) a groundsheet/footprint!
Having said which, I've just bought a new car-camping tent to use with the Mrs (who does not like backpacking like I do) and I've bought the footprint for it to manage the mess more easily! I'll see if I like the idea!
@@dcaudwellI’m like you, never bothered with a footprint ever but after the last trip with our lass in the big campsite tent I understand the use of a footprint for a family tent cause they are not fun to clean 🤣
My experience is that I'm always camping in places that are sandy, have lots of small pine needles (like hemlock) and there's ample ground moisture. So, in the morning when I lift that groundsheet, there's dirt and needles well stuck to the underside. Even if I shake it hard, I can't avoid taking on a few more ounces of debris. I certainly wouldn't want that on the bottom of my tent as I roll it up. My tent is 80% mesh so some of that debris is going to get on the mesh or worse. I can fold up the polycro ground sheet with the remaining debris inside, stick it into a ziplock and stuff it in an outer pocket if necessary.
I use a piece of tyvek and wash it in a washing machine for two or three times making it a bit softer. In bogging weather it’s very handy indeed.
For protection, I find footprints a must. I buy tents second hand sometimes, and the groundsheet on the Vango Omega 350 I bought used was peppered with holes. I also sell my tents in as best a condition as I can. Cheap tarpaulins can be modified to suit with eyelet kits, or aftermarket footprints can be bought.
Never used one in 50years!! I may reconsider.
Also can you review the Alpkit version of the Jetboil before I waste my money!! 😂
There are many Pro’s to using a footprint. The No1 Pro (in my eyes) of using a footprint is; you can fold the muddy side of the footprint over on itself, fold it up small and stick it separately in a waterproof bag.
Keeping the mud etc off everything thing else, especially your inner tent.
A quick sponge down after use, and dry off.
The only possible Con is the extra money, if one isn’t supplied with the tent.
Interesting video Paul, I will only use a footprint if it covers the tent vestibule, I like the extra usable space this provides, especially in wet or snow, I don't use them to protect tent floor as I feel the floor should be strong in it's own right
Possibly depends on where you live, the weather and the critters you have to deal with. In Texas, in general, you’d be crazy not to have a footprint . Maybe in the UK you can get away without it.
Same for Hawaii. It’s usually damp or kinda muddy where you camp so never hurts to have one. Also we mostly don’t use specific footprints for a tent, we just buy a cheap tarp that we use to take whatever damage that the ground may do to a tent so we don’t have to replace our expensive tent and just have to replace a cheap tarp.
Great video, well explained. I have the Nature hike Mongar2 and it came with a ground sheet, its great being able to put up and take down the inner in bad weather 👍
A good tent has a proper groundsheet and doesn't need a seperate "foorprint", it's a way companies make money, use a cheap crappy groundsheet to start with and then sell a seperate one as well. I have a 2 man tent that weighs 3.75 pounds that I bought in 1977, it has a decent "Oxford Raffia " built in groundsheet and is as good today as when I first bought it, and it's had some heavy use over the years.
One of my tents the MSR came with a footprint all good. I made one for my Durston and I am now making one for my Pioneer Tent out of nylon fabric I am adding on the vestibule space and giving one side a PU coating.
All of the really light tents have gossamer like groundsheets. Totally impractical but enables light statistics. I've always added footprints thinking what a con that was ! My favourite is actual groundsheets from 'disposable' festival tents. Just cut them up to fit and add some eyelets.
Never used a foot print, even my old Notch is fine if your careful with it, both my Hillebergs don’t need one at all, I’ve got another old Akto, 26 yrs old and still fine! That’s really why I go for Hillebergs as the PU coating on the floors are fab! My summer kit with the Enan is 11.2lbs once you start adding foot prints….😂
I always use a footprint with my tents for all the reasons you describe. My one niggle with my Durston Xmid 1 is that the footprint only covers the area of the inner tent, not the whole area of the outer. I suppose I should get around to making one sometime.
When I backpack I usually don't bring a footprint in order to save weight (especially for longer disttances). So far no holes in the tent floor have ever occurred. If I did ever get a hole in the bottom of the tent then well, that's what tenacious tape is for.
I am pro footprints, great for moisture management. Also to prevent wear during windy nights when pitched on sand and rocks. In states on Amazon lots of aftermarket footprints available for 20.
I'm a fan of footprints. I always use one. My main reason is what you said first of. I want to protect my expensive tents and air mat.
I always make my own, as I can't usually buy one to fit. Saves cleaning time of tents groundsheet.
Just a thought, why not have the outer fly with the footprint and not bother with the inner tent?
Apart from protecting you from bugs, snakes, etc. (Which let’s be honest are not normally a major problem in the uk) and maybe helping a little with condensation.
Seems to me that for the weight and pack size, you get more benefits from the footprint than you do the inner plus you end up with more space.
I’d be interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts.
I like bug protection bug I’ve used a tent this way before.
Alot depends on the actual tent, who's using it and what time of year. I have a Wild Country Hoolie 3 ETC which is the one with extended vestibule and porch, My 2 young children and I use this all year, so it can be dark by 5pm so maximising use of dry, clean space in and out of the inner is essential, especially when raining. If I/ we were lightweight backpacking in the lighter, dryer seasons I wouldn't take it.
This is why I don't support the comments saying tents should have heavy duty ground sheets, I'd rather have a lightweight ground sheet and the option of a footprint when required. So I can't see how people can have a definitive opinion in general on having a footprint. It's depends upon the person, their tent and when and where they're going and in my case, the two children who with. Thanks for the video and comments.
Save weight use your foam mat 😉
Most condensation probably from humidity vs that tiny bit of ground which will probably have boots and pack on it 😉😘😉
Huge fan of footprints.
Help protect the expensive tent.
Man up and carry the extra weight and bit the bullet on cost, at least for me!!!
Each to their own.
Great one paul 👏
Hi Paul,I am a big fan of your channel and also love terra nova and wild country tents,which it would appear you do too😀.
I have a first gen helm one which I love for it's ease of pitching and that I can sit up in it!👍.
I have a footprint for it which I bought too give the tent a bit more protection,and I like having the piece that extends into the porch section.
I think footprints are so good when your taking your tent down and how it keeps the inner dry..
But honestly you have blown my mind with the idea of pitching the outer over the footprint then setting up the sleep system but sitting on the inner!.
I can't wait to try this!.
I have just bought a exped versa 2r and wondered what your thoughts are or if you have tried one?.
Thank you for doing incredible content!!.
Look forward to the next video😀
Regards matt
One scenario where it could be very useful is if you’re camping with someone else, both with one-man tents, and one of the tents is damaged or destroyed in high winds, for example. By dropping or removing the inner of the surviving tent, two could generally fit in as an emergency measure.
Simple question for me:
Do I want abrasive heather roots, sharp bracken, sheep poo, mud etc on the bottom of my £10 piece of Tyvek or on the bottom of my expensive tent groundsheet?
I use a survival bag as a footprint, (big orange plastic bivvy type thing, £5 from Eurohike). It works very well.
i always use a thick mylar cut to shape helps with isolation 2
Great video you are the best at product videos!!!
Hi Paul what are you using to keep your flysheet door tied up ?
I use a closed cell foam mat for extra ground protection
The reason I like using a thick footprint is because if I pitch my tent on WET Grass, the dampness seeps through the tent floor and makes the inside of my tent damp and my sleeping bag damp etc. Having a thick plastic foot print keeps the tent floor completely dry.
I bought a heavy duty cheap tarp for 20 pounds on amazon and use that
That seems like a whole lot of effort for minimal benefit. I do see your point, and perhaps I'm really fortunate to have a Hilleberg tent? This has a water repellent inner, which whilst it does get wet when you pack it away "all in one" it dries with 20 minutes of repitching. I bring a cloth to wipe down the inside of the ground sheet and in good to go.
The only times I'd use a footprint is 1. When I expect rocky ground, for protection as you say or 2. With my Nordisk Lofiten whose groundsheet is ridiculously thin
I have always used a footprint , mind you i was useing Nature Hike tents and the ones i had came with the footprint and as i was camping on a beach the footprint was a bit of extra protection .
£200.
Boutique glamping again.
£5 gets you a 3x2m piece of Tyvek. Delivered. Weights less than 100g.
I have the Laser Compact 1 and may now 'need' to buy the footprint 😅. I'd love a video on the different options and mods for the door on this tent. Seen the odd picture but not a detailed video. I've put an extra long bungy on mine so I can tie it off on several pegged out points but I'm sure theres better options.
I've the same tent, and I love the outer and ground sheet combo. It's so quick to pitch and get out of the rain, before sorting yourself out. The faff of putting the inner up separately is worth it imo. I do struggle to keep the outer off the inner in the morning though, especially opening a wet door, which is frustrating.
Cheers paul, that's a cool wee tent
This process of inner and outer switching is great I do it but is not possible on all tents CHK when you buy I know for sure on mine good info
I've always used a foot print to protect me tent......good info.
'Ull' east yorkshire.
That is the cleanest piece of tyvek I have ever seen!
If you are a fair weather camper sure but if you go no matter what you def want one. You can do without but it's nicer with.
Also a good barrier for those damn midgees, pack and run.
Great vid Paul, what’s the red/orange thing you’re using to keep the door rolled up please? Looks handy!
how is the brompton bikepacking setup coming along?
The main reason I use one, is to reduce condensation. And, clipping the inner into my tent just last night, on pretty wet ground, was considerably less unpleasant than if I didn't have it.
I use a polycryo sheet I bought for very little and it weighs so close to nothing it's almost ridiculous.
If your expensive tent needs a ground sheet then your expensive tent company needs to be told that they need to improve their bathtubs on their tents. I've definitely owned a few tents that needed a ground sheet. But my last 4 haven't needed one. I usually have single walled tents so I'm not gonna get inside out of the rain and set it up anyhow. :( haha I did finally get a free standing tent for this next spring when I'm heading over to Ireland to do the Irish Way, and then to Wales to do their new trail. I'll probably jump over to Scotland and do a trail or two after. And Last time I hiked Ireland and Scotland I regretted having a Trekking Pole tent, so many times the ground was so rocky It was hard getting stakes in. And you guys' wind is rough. I've only had similar wind a few times on the American trails. Hopefully I'll have better weather too. When I did Oban to St Andrew and the Fife Coastal Way it rained 27 of the days in May. It reminded me of the Appalachian Trail!
Here's my take ,
Tent manufacturers make lighter and lighter tents at the expense of durability so a footprint is required to stop holes in the floor of your tent ,
Add the weight of a footprint and you increase the weight of your lightweight tent .
It was same when hammocks first became popular they were lightweight until people realised you needed underquilts air mats tarps tree huggers then your hammock became heavier than your lightweight tent .
Just make tent bases tougher the only way you got a hole in old taffeta style tent floors was when you dropped your cigarette ,
If you say your lightweight tent is a kilo
Add the weight of the footprint and it isn't
And most footprints aren't much tougher than tent floor .
🤷
I've been using a wild country tent of a name I can't remember for over 20 years, and it never had a footprint. This always annoyed me as the porch was open to the ground, so I improvised a one, sort of worked. I've finally released the moths from my wallet and bought a zephyros compact 2 for £70 sports direct, and the footprint was £10 no brainer 😮
Tyvek.........End. ❤ Over and out.
Where can I source Tyvet wide enough for my Durston with fly floor area 170mmx 254mm? Builders merchants seem to sell it in 1m x50m rolls etc.
@@allanmacleod2234 I get my tyvek on Amazon for a couple of £ per M. I use the house wrap stuff and cut to size. You can get eyelet holes with the punch too but I never bother. I just put up my geodesic inner and then slide the tyvek underneath. Worked for years, no issues
@@allanmacleod2234 online mate, tyvek house wrap. Readily available
@@allanmacleod2234 You can't you will need to.sew the bits together, the durston x mid is a real pain to.make a ground sheet for as it's such an odd shape
I bought a 0.6 kg heavy duty tarp from Decathlon as a groundsheet on Iceland (extremely sharp gravel). Haven't bothered replacing it since. Both my tent floor and the tarp still look brand new.
The tarp is actually larger than the tent footprint. I just fold the excess tarp upwards, creating a tub with walls that even cover the standoff distance between outer tent and the ground - perfect when it rains horizontally!
Always used a plastic sheet and all my tents are still like new 😮
Thanks - useful and interesting video.
Do a review on the redvolution race pants
Your biggest advantage is worst reason as if raining it'll drip on footprint and get you wet bum unless close door in some conditions ;) whereas no footprint get to inner and be dry and use porch and rain drips soaks into grass ;)
All these comments great for the algorithm mate 😂
@@PaulMessner happy to help 😊
I started camping in the early 1980s before the salesmen invented the foot print, in all that time I've never found a reason for taking up space in, or adding weight to my pack with one. As for paying £200 for one? Sounds like a blatant con job to me, but then, I only paid £80 for my Vango. 😉
@@davedthomas01 I started too in the early 80s and rapidly realised that a footprint was needed on lightweight tents. They didn't use the rubber (Force 10) or raffia type groundsheet.
I just used the poly survival bag I carried anyway and it meant a few years extra life on the tent.
After 47 years of getting the ground sheet covered in mud and muck I finally brought an Army Basha cheap to put down first
It’s worth taking even if it’s just to keep your tent floor clean