My personal theory is that getting Beavers on the hole was really easy early on development (that was why the hit number is so high). And, very late on development, a small change was made that ruined everything and went unnoticed.
I wonder how many other randomizers offer "vanilla game but with QoL improvements" as an option. I know the Yume Nikki randomizer lets you do that, but that's about it; I'm not really into this scene.
Another thing that immediately comes to mind for "fixing" the game, is that one minigame that's much harder on VC than N64 because they assumed that there would be lag.
Assuming you're referring to Krazy Kong Klamour, we already fixed that about a year or so ago by making the flicker timer tick down by the amount of lag frames that were present (+1), and adjusting the timers accordingly. As a result, that minigame is identical now on both N64 and VC/Emu
The fact that the inside of the whole has walls might indicate it's just an issue with the collision checks themselves and not whether they're enabled or not
That isn't the only broken golden banana challenge as the rabbit in the forest is only beatable if it gets stuck on an enemy. The Krazy Kong Klamor in Crystal Caves is broken as it expects you to have the reaction time of a ninja on speed. I'd say those two are worse than Beaver Bother, but at least you only have to do them once. There are earlier Krazy Kong Klamors, but they are much easier than the one in Crystal Caves.
I find the rabbit easy to beat because it takes a wider route when jumping one of the huddles near the end of the race. The Kong Klamor is not impossible but I admit is difficult. You can cheat this though by pausing just as the screen is about to light up, giving you the ability to cut out the reaction time and hit the banana every time
I'm under the impression the issue with the rabbit is a lack of lag frames in emulation. The rabbit's speed was designed with the idea it would get slowed down with lag, while the Kings are not.
I can't exactly tell if I'm worrying too much, based on your upload schedule history, but I really hope you plan on making more videos in the future. I think every video of yours I've ever seen is unique, well made, and extremely entertaining. I'd even go as far as saying nobody really makes videos like yours, about dk64 or otherwise, and I really enjoy them. I hope that you enjoy making them and can afford to continue to. PS, If I go to hell, I will be playing Beaver Bother for eternity, and it won't be your version, unfortunately
@@Mex_Luigi Hey, I do plan on making more. I just have really high standards for my videos, and my time is being split a fair few ways between Dk64 randomizer development, helping manage the dk64 speedrun YT channel, a full time job and having a wife. I'm still working on the ACE video, I assure you. Thank you for the kind compliments.
I recently learned of the randomizer from Vinesauce's playthrough. I really appreciate the work you and others in the community have done for this game!
To me it seemed like Bevers are more likely to get stuck if you spam scaring them. Only scaring them to make them run up to the hole and then stay quiet behind helps them navigate into it.
I've always wondered- people say Beaver Bother is much, much easier on Wii U than N64 somehow, likely relating to Wii U's constant framerate with little to no lag; is that true? And if so, do you know how the lack of lag relates to Beaver Bother?
After seeing this video and revisiting this minigame, I am mind blown by how lucky I was to win on my 1st try all those years ago. This minigame is absolutely busted
I've literally been thinking about this after watching a recent LP: guessing what is actually wrong and then how to fix Beaver Bother without making it too easy,
I've never liked the bonus barrel minigames, not a single one of them is fun imo. Any chance we can get a setting that just replaces the barrels with the gb/collectible you would get from it?
Awesome work, a long time coming as this is one of the biggest things scaring me away from repeat 100% playthroughs! Whilst it's nice you've applied some hacky workaround fixes in the form of only temporarily enabling noclip for the beavers when in their 'scared' state (of course leading to the detriment of them becoming noclip towards the outer walls of the barrell if scared in that direction), why is this all a problem in the first place? Did you ever figure this out? I noticed on your fly-by of the wireframe that the area around the hole has really tiny tris lining the outside of the hole, is it anything to do with that?
I'd assume rare wrote some bit of script in the beaver AI that causes them to treat the hole as a wall when not scared to keep them from wandering in on their own.
I have played DK64 for a very long time on the N64 and 101%'d numerous times. That botheration of the Beaver Bother minigame was tricky at times in Creepy Castle but more times than others it hasn't given me that much of a problem. I also haven't played the DK64 Randomizer before until last night and boy, was it certainly a different experience. Playing for an hour and a half, quite a few things were randomized and it was nice seeing the different effects it can have on the game. I didn't pick a preset, I picked all the settings I wanted then generated that seed, the prizes won were also different. The moves are gotten at different locations, sometimes dropped by an enemy, gotten a boss key from the barrel blast course in Fungi Forest and there's another boss key that's at the mill in the same level so that was interesting to have. Warps are randomized, level order is different, the Troff 'n' Scoff banana price is 5 and seems like it'll be that way for every world as it had for 2 straight worlds at this point. Random starting location put me in the Jungle Japes lobby and I did that level first, then the next level that opened up was Fungi Forest. Definitely a nice experience and after playing much of Banjo-Kazooie's randomizer, I was looking forward to seeing so much with DK64 since it's much bigger, more items and all to randomize, it's great so far. Keep it up!
Yeah, I have been playing it the past few days and it's been fun! So much at random with the new locations of things and getting the new abilities in different fashions, getting the Kongs in different ways as well. I found Lanky Kong as a reward from a bonus barrel in Fungi Forest, in the place where DK goes to do the Minecart minigame. lol. And I also have the random starting spawn location on, in one of the seeds Diddy showed up IN the track area where the RC Car is where Tiny's supposed to race him in Frantic Factory and the reward? Tiny. lol
I'm pretty sure (but I could be wrong) that one time I saw a video of someone doing Beaver Bother and they were somehow able to kill the beavers with the shock attack and still got the counter down. Tried that myself and didn't work (even after getting the move). So then I thought, maybe it's a glitch or a TAS thing, I don't know though but is interesting.
Yeah, most likely a TAS but it has been done RTA. In short, you need a beaver to push the klaptrap into the sloped walls, which overrides the "I am a klaptrap" state with the slipping state, granting traditional controls. It's incredibly rough and RNG dependent, so isn't an easier way to beat the minigame
Wait, ACE in DK64? I talked about this in the discord community as well! If there was a way to do it, we could even possibly implement in a set seed setting with a custom track by it playing notes in certain variables, making for an amazing April Fools seed or something! After all, the game plays the music somehow, shouldn't it be possible for a custom song to set it up?
As frustrating as beaver bother is, i dont think id change it. Only makes it a better flex when i tell n show people the 101% run ,it is the game of the century
hi ballaam i was looking at the site for donkey kong 64 randomizer and i can't get it to work on retroarch i followed the steps on the site and i still can not get it to work and i can not find a video on how to get it to work i would like to give this a try but if i can't get it to work then i won't be able to try it
@bowser254xbox Hey, best bet is to join the discord linked in the video description. That way, we can best help you out with getting you set up as quickly as possible
So I’m curious, has anyone ever done 101% with tag anywhere and qol, curious how fast it would be in comparison since there’s so much dedicated routing in 101 that I wonder how much time is actually saved
This won't mean anything; I just completed a casual run with these settings. I haven't played for at least 10 years, and I never went past the 4th level before this. It did take me just under 24 hours without a guide. I might be able to subtract an hour or two from standing idle. At the end, I had to look up how to find one of the crowns, and I had to look up hints for Beaver Bother.
This and the beetle are the only things that should've stayed in the scrapheap it's honestly the only things that keep me from replaying the game more normal or randomized. This is straight up broken then like the beetle... was going through an insane level platform slide AND getting coins really not enough? They really had to make it a race too and with the worst "character" made for anything ever? Those levels could maybe actually be really fun without it but nooo someone just had to go and completely ruin it. If I saw whoever's responsible I'd push them in front of the train even if there isn't a family to save.
Is there a way to somehow improve a drawing distance in the game? In my opinion it's awful even by 1999 standards. Banjo-Kazooie (which was made a year ago) has this problem handled much better. It was developed by different team, but still, it's a Rareware game.
You can customize the draw distance of objects in the game. But that would have a detrimental effect on system performance for DK64. DK64 is a much bigger game than BK. It can't get away with some of the luxuries BK had
@@Ballaam Is it possible to make this feature emulator-exclusive? As far as I know, emulators are capable of swapping the textures and 3D models on the fly to a better versions (for Hi-res options in some GFX plug-in) Of course, it's only for HLE, and barely executable on a console. Conker BFD had enormous drawing distance and sometimes too often FPS falls down to 15 or less, but it's still playable. Maybe you can consider this feature as a future release (or mark it with performance warning like "use at your own risk"). Of course if it's even possible at all = )
@@kotbayun2207 We *generally* don't like making changes which are exclusive to a singular platform type. We aim for parity across all versions including stuff like game difficulty (eg. We've modified Krazy Kong Klamor so that the light flicker speed is consistent on N64 and Wii U). I'll keep this in mind though
@@Ballaam Nah you click baiting I have speedrun this game before you just mash B. Just run around and when the beavers face the pit you run at them and mash B
@@kyleisreal_tvI assure you the dude who has been basically rewriting the game from scratch/picking it apart is gonna know more than a random speedrunner.
The way that I want to boot up the randomizer again just to play with quality of life fixes 🥲 bless you lads for fixing one of the most brutal moments in gaming.
I've always felt that this was genuinely one of the best minigames, if only it worked properly
hi
Hbomberguy, delirious from literal days of playing DK64, to a US Representative: "Do you know how to beat Beaver Bother?"
I just wonder if there were never complains from playtesters about this minigame.
My personal theory is that getting Beavers on the hole was really easy early on development (that was why the hit number is so high). And, very late on development, a small change was made that ruined everything and went unnoticed.
The game has a bunch of weird difficulty spikes. For example the races
Rare team probably just told them, "git gud, guv'ner."
No way! I had no idea about the DK64 randomizer "vanilla but better" fixes. Next time I replay the game, I'm definitely going to do it this way
We didn't originally have it, but we had so many people who wanted to play the vanilla game with our fixes that we made it a preset
@@BallaamThat's awesome! Well, thank you so much for doing that :) It'll make doing a new 101% playthrough a lot more fun
I wonder how many other randomizers offer "vanilla game but with QoL improvements" as an option. I know the Yume Nikki randomizer lets you do that, but that's about it; I'm not really into this scene.
Wait.... the objective is to get them IN the hole???? I've been doing this wrong this whole time.
I’ve always thought there was an invisible wall that disappeared when the beavers were scared.
This is the only mini game that prevented me from 101%
I'm here to say the same exact thing. I had 2 of these beaver minigames that I could never beat
I always said if every banana was yellow, and all kong totals were converged, the game would be night and day
fungi forest already had night and day tho
The game is fine, coloured bananas while sometimes CAN be annoying don't even pale in comparison to today shit standard of gamedesign.
The colored bananas wouldn't be so bad if they didn't put them in places where the associated kong had no reason to go were it not for thw bananas.
Another thing that immediately comes to mind for "fixing" the game, is that one minigame that's much harder on VC than N64 because they assumed that there would be lag.
Assuming you're referring to Krazy Kong Klamour, we already fixed that about a year or so ago by making the flicker timer tick down by the amount of lag frames that were present (+1), and adjusting the timers accordingly. As a result, that minigame is identical now on both N64 and VC/Emu
@@Ballaam They might refer to the mechanical fish or the rabbit race as well.
Krazy kong klamour? Just pause buffer. I aced it on the first or second try after learning that
The fact that the inside of the whole has walls might indicate it's just an issue with the collision checks themselves and not whether they're enabled or not
This is the game of century for sure! The peak of all randomizers in fact! Great work Ballaam!
I'm terribly sorry that beaver couldn't bother you.
thank you so much for all the work you and the others have done on this game!
That isn't the only broken golden banana challenge as the rabbit in the forest is only beatable if it gets stuck on an enemy. The Krazy Kong Klamor in Crystal Caves is broken as it expects you to have the reaction time of a ninja on speed. I'd say those two are worse than Beaver Bother, but at least you only have to do them once. There are earlier Krazy Kong Klamors, but they are much easier than the one in Crystal Caves.
I find the rabbit easy to beat because it takes a wider route when jumping one of the huddles near the end of the race. The Kong Klamor is not impossible but I admit is difficult. You can cheat this though by pausing just as the screen is about to light up, giving you the ability to cut out the reaction time and hit the banana every time
I'm under the impression the issue with the rabbit is a lack of lag frames in emulation. The rabbit's speed was designed with the idea it would get slowed down with lag, while the Kings are not.
I can't exactly tell if I'm worrying too much, based on your upload schedule history, but I really hope you plan on making more videos in the future. I think every video of yours I've ever seen is unique, well made, and extremely entertaining. I'd even go as far as saying nobody really makes videos like yours, about dk64 or otherwise, and I really enjoy them. I hope that you enjoy making them and can afford to continue to.
PS, If I go to hell, I will be playing Beaver Bother for eternity, and it won't be your version, unfortunately
@@Mex_Luigi Hey, I do plan on making more. I just have really high standards for my videos, and my time is being split a fair few ways between Dk64 randomizer development, helping manage the dk64 speedrun YT channel, a full time job and having a wife. I'm still working on the ACE video, I assure you. Thank you for the kind compliments.
I recently learned of the randomizer from Vinesauce's playthrough. I really appreciate the work you and others in the community have done for this game!
At this point, examining and improving N64 games is almost something akin to a science. I'm impressed!
Ballaam is one of our most notable monkey scientists!
To me it seemed like Bevers are more likely to get stuck if you spam scaring them. Only scaring them to make them run up to the hole and then stay quiet behind helps them navigate into it.
I remember this minigame absolutely infuriating me as a kid, I'll definitely give the randomizer a try next time I play DK64
That cliffhanger is scaring me.
I can't wait to see some kind of bizarre, nonsensical ACE execution in DK64 just to like. Warp to credits instantly.
I've always wondered- people say Beaver Bother is much, much easier on Wii U than N64 somehow, likely relating to Wii U's constant framerate with little to no lag; is that true? And if so, do you know how the lack of lag relates to Beaver Bother?
After seeing this video and revisiting this minigame, I am mind blown by how lucky I was to win on my 1st try all those years ago. This minigame is absolutely busted
At last, someone has dissected my most hated DK64 mini-game. I've always wondered why it was so hard to get those stupid beavers in the hole.
One thing I'd fix about DK64 is to make the arcade game much easier.
Awesome! That minigame is the spawn of the devil.
I've literally been thinking about this after watching a recent LP: guessing what is actually wrong and then how to fix Beaver Bother without making it too easy,
I came in expecting to be bothered by beavers, I left with an entire new randomizer on my radar that I must check out
Nice choice of music! 👌
I've never liked the bonus barrel minigames, not a single one of them is fun imo. Any chance we can get a setting that just replaces the barrels with the gb/collectible you would get from it?
Already is. It's called "autocomplete Bonus barrels"
@@Ballaam I must've missed it then. Thanks so much
@@bumpybumpybumpybumpy one of the amazing quality of life options Ballaam and the devs added to dk64 randomizer!
Awesome work, a long time coming as this is one of the biggest things scaring me away from repeat 100% playthroughs!
Whilst it's nice you've applied some hacky workaround fixes in the form of only temporarily enabling noclip for the beavers when in their 'scared' state (of course leading to the detriment of them becoming noclip towards the outer walls of the barrell if scared in that direction), why is this all a problem in the first place? Did you ever figure this out?
I noticed on your fly-by of the wireframe that the area around the hole has really tiny tris lining the outside of the hole, is it anything to do with that?
I'd assume rare wrote some bit of script in the beaver AI that causes them to treat the hole as a wall when not scared to keep them from wandering in on their own.
Friggin professor Layton music in a different soundfont as the intro music. Oof. Okay I'll watch
Woo! Now I can play the game again.
I have played DK64 for a very long time on the N64 and 101%'d numerous times. That botheration of the Beaver Bother minigame was tricky at times in Creepy Castle but more times than others it hasn't given me that much of a problem. I also haven't played the DK64 Randomizer before until last night and boy, was it certainly a different experience. Playing for an hour and a half, quite a few things were randomized and it was nice seeing the different effects it can have on the game. I didn't pick a preset, I picked all the settings I wanted then generated that seed, the prizes won were also different. The moves are gotten at different locations, sometimes dropped by an enemy, gotten a boss key from the barrel blast course in Fungi Forest and there's another boss key that's at the mill in the same level so that was interesting to have. Warps are randomized, level order is different, the Troff 'n' Scoff banana price is 5 and seems like it'll be that way for every world as it had for 2 straight worlds at this point. Random starting location put me in the Jungle Japes lobby and I did that level first, then the next level that opened up was Fungi Forest.
Definitely a nice experience and after playing much of Banjo-Kazooie's randomizer, I was looking forward to seeing so much with DK64 since it's much bigger, more items and all to randomize, it's great so far. Keep it up!
The randomizer is so much fun! I hope you give it a shot!
Yeah, I have been playing it the past few days and it's been fun! So much at random with the new locations of things and getting the new abilities in different fashions, getting the Kongs in different ways as well. I found Lanky Kong as a reward from a bonus barrel in Fungi Forest, in the place where DK goes to do the Minecart minigame. lol. And I also have the random starting spawn location on, in one of the seeds Diddy showed up IN the track area where the RC Car is where Tiny's supposed to race him in Frantic Factory and the reward? Tiny. lol
Was just testing the game in vanilla+ and already found a softlock when talking to diddy
looks like im turning beaver bother back on during my rando runs! heck yeah!
THANK CHRIST. YOU ARE DOING THE LORD'S WORK.
oh. this damn minigame. nice video
I'm pretty sure (but I could be wrong) that one time I saw a video of someone doing Beaver Bother and they were somehow able to kill the beavers with the shock attack and still got the counter down. Tried that myself and didn't work (even after getting the move). So then I thought, maybe it's a glitch or a TAS thing, I don't know though but is interesting.
Yeah, most likely a TAS but it has been done RTA. In short, you need a beaver to push the klaptrap into the sloped walls, which overrides the "I am a klaptrap" state with the slipping state, granting traditional controls.
It's incredibly rough and RNG dependent, so isn't an easier way to beat the minigame
How do I remove the collision for this minigame? I am so annoyed with this game.
Wait, ACE in DK64? I talked about this in the discord community as well! If there was a way to do it, we could even possibly implement in a set seed setting with a custom track by it playing notes in certain variables, making for an amazing April Fools seed or something! After all, the game plays the music somehow, shouldn't it be possible for a custom song to set it up?
As frustrating as beaver bother is, i dont think id change it. Only makes it a better flex when i tell n show people the 101% run ,it is the game of the century
0:57 calling the entity klaptrap in the source code...ain't no klaptrap act like a bothersome beaver.
Cool 😎
Out here doing od's work
Are we on the verge of ACE in DK64?
So where is that fix found in the randomiser?
Under "vanilla bugfixes" in the misc. QOL settings?
It's always assumed enabled at the moment
hi ballaam i was looking at the site for donkey kong 64 randomizer and i can't get it to work on retroarch i followed the steps on the site and i still can not get it to work and i can not find a video on how to get it to work i would like to give this a try but if i can't get it to work then i won't be able to try it
@bowser254xbox Hey, best bet is to join the discord linked in the video description. That way, we can best help you out with getting you set up as quickly as possible
Donkey Kong 64 PC Recompilation? 👀
So I’m curious, has anyone ever done 101% with tag anywhere and qol, curious how fast it would be in comparison since there’s so much dedicated routing in 101 that I wonder how much time is actually saved
This won't mean anything; I just completed a casual run with these settings. I haven't played for at least 10 years, and I never went past the 4th level before this. It did take me just under 24 hours without a guide. I might be able to subtract an hour or two from standing idle. At the end, I had to look up how to find one of the crowns, and I had to look up hints for Beaver Bother.
@@EmberCitrine As a fan of DK64, anything that makes people play the game is a win
Oh no.. ACE? Not ACE!!!
does this mean that beaver bother is back on the list of rando barrel games?
We're discussing it for S3
What's ACE in DK64 and what do you mean by about it being on the verge?
ACE = Arbitrary code execution, and you'll find out in terms of your second question :P
Ok thanks!
So when was this implemented on the dk64 randomizer?
A day or so ago haha
What is it about beavers and terrible minigames?
This and the beetle are the only things that should've stayed in the scrapheap it's honestly the only things that keep me from replaying the game more normal or randomized.
This is straight up broken then like the beetle... was going through an insane level platform slide AND getting coins really not enough? They really had to make it a race too and with the worst "character" made for anything ever? Those levels could maybe actually be really fun without it but nooo someone just had to go and completely ruin it. If I saw whoever's responsible I'd push them in front of the train even if there isn't a family to save.
Is there a way to somehow improve a drawing distance in the game?
In my opinion it's awful even by 1999 standards.
Banjo-Kazooie (which was made a year ago) has this problem handled much better. It was developed by different team, but still, it's a Rareware game.
You can customize the draw distance of objects in the game. But that would have a detrimental effect on system performance for DK64.
DK64 is a much bigger game than BK. It can't get away with some of the luxuries BK had
@@Ballaam Is it possible to make this feature emulator-exclusive?
As far as I know, emulators are capable of swapping the textures and 3D models on the fly to a better versions (for Hi-res options in some GFX plug-in)
Of course, it's only for HLE, and barely executable on a console.
Conker BFD had enormous drawing distance and sometimes too often FPS falls down to 15 or less, but it's still playable.
Maybe you can consider this feature as a future release (or mark it with performance warning like "use at your own risk").
Of course if it's even possible at all = )
@@kotbayun2207 We *generally* don't like making changes which are exclusive to a singular platform type. We aim for parity across all versions including stuff like game difficulty (eg. We've modified Krazy Kong Klamor so that the light flicker speed is consistent on N64 and Wii U). I'll keep this in mind though
@@Ballaam okay, thanks
I don't get the complains, I love this minigame 😊
❤
Just mash B bruh it is not hard lol
Mashing B is definitely an inconsistent and not incredibly useful strategy in the vanilla game
@@Ballaam Nah you click baiting I have speedrun this game before you just mash B. Just run around and when the beavers face the pit you run at them and mash B
@@kyleisreal_tvI assure you the dude who has been basically rewriting the game from scratch/picking it apart is gonna know more than a random speedrunner.
@@kyleisreal_tvsome of us are not speedrunners like you m8
@@WaluTime I’m not trolling that is what you do I didn’t know most people thought this was hard. Now that arcade Donkey coin on the other hand
The way that I want to boot up the randomizer again just to play with quality of life fixes 🥲 bless you lads for fixing one of the most brutal moments in gaming.