Please note, both versions of the Wraith Spire feature fans with 5 blades, the 7 blade fan was throw on last minute for the a-roll, it's from the Stealth, that was a mistake. The fans shown individually in the videos b-roll are correct.
What a shame that now you are recommending an after market cooler but while comparing intel and amd cpus in your reviews you added the cooler price only to the intel cpus to make them less value for money compared to the amd cpus. This is utterly disgusting to see this come out of Hardware unboxed!. I had mentioned the same on your original reviews too.
I had no idea they changed the cooler. Thanks for this video I'm going to buy a 3600, but I intend on using my 360mm aio since I recently upgraded to a custom loop. Did any of the other stock coolers change? Thanks working so hard to bring us these videos, it really does help out a lot! You are awesome!
@@therealb888 utterly disgusting is a bit of an overstatement, however i agree with you that he shouldn't have included cooler cost with the intel cpu. You know the price without the cooler anyway so its not that big of a deal. Let's be honest here, even with cutting costs on the new cooler, it's not much of a temp difference and if overclocking is something you want to do; go with intel.
"Back to our regular type content in a few days" THIS should be regular type content. Thank you Steve for being an actual reviewer of products and not just a medium for showing graphs of game FPS. Please do more investigative work.
These graphs take a long time to produce, with many benchmark runs involved. He provides valuable information to us that tests unique situations and gives us results that no other RUclips channels show. Please don't disrespect that, he is not 'just a medium for showing graphs'. That said, investigative videos are good because he showed us that AMD are cutting some corners now as well.
@@TheRealFobican mishap? They have to make money in some way. It would be cool to keep the Box cooler in my System. But its just too loud. Sad but im not mad. Most Intel coolers " go right in the trash".
To be fair amd delivered killer performance CPUs at a very customer friendly price with the smaller Ryzen 3000 models. I've seen many benchmarks where even the small 3600 beats an Intel i9 at what? A quarter of Intel's price? I can overlook and accept AMD cutting costs on boxed coolers. Most customers go for custom cooling solutions anyway.
As soon as they no longer offered the Wraith Spire RGB cooler, I would have figured the copper insert would be gone as their "no compromises" heatsink is Wraith Prism now.
To be fair we don't know how much of the gained margine is going straight to amd. Some of it might have transfered to retail price cuts too. Or amd just keeps all of it we probably may never know :/
that's not really greed, they need to make money because they made huge debts to bring on the market the strong lineup they recently reached. time to harvest now
It's amazing how fast people get outraged and turn on these companies over something so innocuous. Honestly it's comments like the OP that I kinda wish AMD closes up and gives a middle finger to all the enthusiasts as Intel rapes the market.
1:50 They have different blade counts, one has 5 and one has 8. Then later you show at 3:21 that one has 5 blade and the second one at 3:58 having 5 fins too. Did you mix up the fan up with another one?
Yeah Steve probably mixed them up. I think that might be from the Wraith Stealth first gen. Based on a video comparison I've seen they changed it to 5 fins last year/second gen.
AMD needs to start offering their CPUs without included heat sink at a reduced price. Even if it's only $10 off. It's silly to force people to buy the included heat sink if they're not going to use it. It's just crazy to start cutting corners on quality when you are finally making some headway against Intel for the first time in over a decade.
@PC MR Yeah having more products is a hassle particularly for retailers who will likely end up holding stock of the less popular option for longer, and chances are the cooler doesn't cost even $10 to produce so the price difference would end up being negligible, or AMD would have to reduce their margins.
The cheaper their processors,the more damage they can do to Intel dominance. Those that buy their coolers separately,won't care either way. As for those that normarly wouldn't,but this might motivate them to do so,will be more interested to get shiny new CPU for as cheap as possible. Either way,it won't hurt AMD sales...probably.
Do we want to have better box cooler or more expensive product... and that depends on. If you in anyway put on aftermarket cooler, it is better to have cheaper one. If you don`t change the cooler, then it is better to pay more and get better box cooler. There is not rigth or wrong choise in here. Just different choises.
@@The_Curious_Cat Yup I think that might the reason, making smaller cpu die has it's expenses. No one complained about Intel when they were doing it all these years. Yet again I can't say AMD are the good guys either. They sell a CPU that takes 70-80$ to make for 350-400$. But again Intel sold the same double what AMD did & I feel it's better to trust the devil nearby than to wait for the angel to arrive.
G'day Steve, I was wondering how the new Spire performed compared to the older one when I heard they were different, So if you are upgrading from a Ryzen 5 1000/2000 to R5 3600 use your earlier fan 😁, I've been really happy with my Spire LED I got with my R5 1400 (I talked they guy I got it from into giving me the upgraded fan from his R7 2700)
Said the cooler was louder but did not show db levels or provide any audio examples so we could see exactly how much louder. The temps were basically the same so I think it's important to include noise levels.
I seriously hope AMD acknowledges their mistake and start making proper stock coolers again. I get it, 7nm consumes less power, but still, you can't just downgrade stuff. It also ended bad for intel, their latest stock coolers are atrocious
You say they can't and yet they did. I don't think that word means what you think it means. I have a 2600x and I put the one from my 2700x on it. I may have to pull out the 2600x one to take a look at it tonight.
@@Anthonyelmio2 I'm at 1080p 144hz attempting to pull as many fps out I can. I had overclocked my 1600 to 3.8ghz but had occasional stability issues. I noticed a difference in demanding games like FFXV, and Witcher 3 but I'd have been better off with a better graphics card. But this is part of a 2 step upgrade process for borderlands 3 hopefully.
@@demofighter I got mine to overclock to 3.9 at 1440p 144 hz mostly get 80-90 fps but I play at high settings with a gtx 1080 maybe I should start lowering the settings to get higher fps but some games don't like the overclock
@@Anthonyelmio2 yeah that was my reason for an upgrade, I was playing dues ex mankind divided and the game would just stop on me :\ looking to get either a 5700 or 5700 xt in the future. Or something that comes in around the gtx 1660 ti. I'd get a used card as well but I'm looking for that big bump in performance so I can move to 1440p eventually.
I wish I could just save $10 and get the CPU without cooler. That said, the low profile coolers might come in handy "eventually" if after upgrading I try and stick my old hardware into a SFF case.
Amd, pay attention: put out a questionnaire and ask the community is there is a place for an hypothetical R5 3600F, you get it? As there are out there extremely cheap and very good cooling solution, as the Snowman or other similar. I myself have a non name 6 heatpipes and under 2000rpm crap 90mm fan, keeping the r5 3600 below 50 Celsius and under 60 at continuous 100% load. So, the "F"anless version is more than welcomed. Just think about it...
Let´s think about just how many users really do care about CPU cooler. In real numbers, it will always be a minority, as most people just don´t care. It´s hot? Who cares, it works. It´s loud? Who cares, it works. Etc After seeing this vid im happy i bought my Noctua AM4 kit a week before i ordered my Ryzen CPU as i remember how BOX cooler was back then with AMD Phenom processors and i will possibly never use that cooler myself, but no one ever knows if there will be any need for it. As for cheap cooling solutions - you´ll buy high quality air cooling solution only once and only change fans as they wear out, only AiO coolers are a bit different, since they are expensive, but they don´t have long life like high quality air cooler and their only "bonus" is fancy look.
I didn't even use the cooler that came with my 3600, I got a brand new unused Wraith Prism of a mate who bought the 3700x and put it straight on water. I used the Prism for about 3 days before I went out & bought the CoolerMaster Masterliquid ML240L RGB AIO, because the Prism was so noisy. My system is much quieter now, and running much cooler, and I'm happier. :) Another great review Steve. Keep the great content coming.
Could they be splitting up manufacturing based on geography? That keeps shipping costs at a minimum - and then mixing them up when one location would need more than the other
Not as good as my "Frosty" (this Frosty nickname is not Frosty the Snowman), its my phase cooler, sub-zero 24/7 if ya want it! Little more expensive than the free stock cooler or Brian's Snowman recommendation, but its like 80c colder...
It's called "de-contenting." It's a pretty standard practice across numerous industries (most notably the auto industry) where a new model launches with all the bells and whistles "standard" and then successive models have less and less amenities, but the price stays the same or goes up...
Another issue is that China does this a LOT by sending reviewers super nice models at unbelievable prices (later you know why...), and then the consumers get something completely worse. They tell the reviewer its either a finished production prototype or the actual model, but then like maybe the first 1000 units (basically first 2 days of orders) and then they switch it, they don't even bother updating product descriptions until people complain (which is like a month later since its being shipped from across the world). It makes the company look bad, the reviewer gets angry that the review is basically worthless now and ruins their fame, and the customers are not happy being sold a different product without warning. The crazy part is (for a lot of race quad copters especially prevalent), most of the time it would be a perfectly good product at an excellent price anyways, and they would still get great reviews and sell just as many or more anyways, but they just go over the top with some BS parts or cherry picking and ship out something else (even when its just as good, its still annoying, because why couldn't they have just sent the reviewer the equally good part so you know what you're getting?). In airospace, we absolutely hate calling things the same model if its slightly different. A hole 1/8 inch different position? NOT THE SAME PART NUMBER! because if you try to stick it on another plane and it doesn't fit, then its obviously not the same part (most of the time its blank drill to match existing holes for mods, avoiding this issue). Then you get marketing crap like the 747 "max", like its not even a 747 planform, its a whole freaken different thing! But Boeing does some weird stuff... Some planes made on different days are different (sigh... same model and drawings... then you'll have a note with all the tail numbers affected by some change...). At least minor differences is kind of acceptable, but I don't like these massive feature differences (AMD copper vs no copper, fast fan, etc).
Loved the detail everyone missed.. Although I have 3900X with H115i Platinum but for recommending others, this was very beneficial to me. Keep up the great work.
I use my first-gen Wraith Spire from 1600 on 2600x(4.0Ghz 1.2125v), because the one in box with 2600x was a bit lighter, had thinner aluminum, so, there is at least 3 gens of them, did not compare them because i gave it away the same moment...
Glad you made this video. After hearing all the great things about the Wraith coolers I’ve tried the coolers from 3600, 3600X, and the 3700x. The Prism is nice looking and works ok, the other two were pretty noisy and under sustained load temps got uncomfortably warm. I have them to test because I didn’t use them. Now I’m using the higher end coolers on lower end chips for budget builds.
This is definitely worth scrutinising, but reading these comments I think people are taking it too seriously. This is a cooler. A large portion of the people buying ryzen products will be the sort of people who want aftermarket cooling, or already have it. The box cooler (and especially AMD's different tiers of box cooler) is a bonus that AMD aren't obliged to offer. Yes, they have been offering genuinely good coolers with their older products, but I feel that's giving people q false sense of entitlement to good box coolers from AMD. Of course it's not that simple, and I do agree that this is sort of dishonest and definitely not a good choice from AMD. At this stage, we should just be wary of AMD's cost-saving tactics, and pay close attention in future. But already jumping the gun and claiming that they're the new intel already (from a shadiness pov), is a bit insane honestly. They made a cooler (that many people don't even touch) a bit louder and heavier for the same performance. That doesn't make them the devil. It doesn't make them intel. They haven't gimped us. They just offer a slightly worse cooler than they have done before. The spire is still miles ahead of any intel cooler, and AMD's CPUs are still far better value than intel's right now. Be vigilant, but be realistic about what they've actually done here. Very little.
Solid state tech did something on the new cooler, too...always love to hear Hardware Unboxed's thoughts on stuff like this! I didn't realize the fan was different...just assumed it spun faster bc more need to do so. Thanks for the great content as always! Would be interesting to know how many box coolers get used and how many replaced.
Thank you Steve, that's what I signed up for. Bought a used Ryzen 1700 with the 1st Gen Spire, replaced the fan with a bequiet 120mm case fan that overlaps by quite a bit and thankfully cools my RAM and the VRM, and lastly used Liquid metal, since it is a copper baseplate! Yes, It works, after months there hasn't been a sign of liquid metal getting into the aluminIum and with my max loads, I dont ever see temps above 70°. Why upgrade? :D
@@Lucifer-cj7et Personally, I don't care much whether the cooler that's sitting in my CPU box is copper or not, while the Noctua cooler is installed on my CPU (as I'm sure most of us here do).
I use it on my 3600 but that's only because I haven't decided if I want to water cool yet or not. Even this cheaper cooler is significantly quieter than my old H60 (120mm AIO) so I don't mind it.
OMG Steve, you did it you mad lad! Hahaha! I do remember requesting this a month or two ago :) glad to see that not only Patreon members are being listened to ^_^ but also us regular RUclips views Keep up with fighting the good fight HWUB!
Excellent video, Steve. It's important that things like this be talked about publicly. People should know about these things so they can make the most informed choices possible, and they need to remember, and sometimes be reminded, that companies are not their friends.
The boxed Ryzen coolers are a dream to install vs. the absolute c-rap Intel push-pin coolers. Intel needs to get with it and nuke the push-pin system from orbit.
This ! I've seen so many of the intel OEM fans not being installed properly and the CPU overheating because of it. It's not because it's done cheaply but because it's a stupid design.
@@Bareego Haha, I almost thought my Ryzen stock cooler was on correctly (thumb screw wasn't moving easy), but when I got my screwdriver one of the corners kept spinning... and spinning... and spinning...). It looked flat to me, but it just didn't get in the hole from the beginning when I was X pattern tightening them in increments and I didn't notice by hand (it was basically un-turnable by hand, I guess it was trying to drill in sideways or something). But otherwise its ok (they just need more wiggle for the screws). AM3+ has by far one of the fastest and reliable methods, AM4 is at least way better than the piece of garbage TR4 (it looks like they way over-thought it, but then everything was so freaken sloppy on I'm guessing my Foxcon made socket, that half the memory never detects like a lot of people experience, you have to remount like 20 times in worst case, that was a horrible weekend!). I typically use zip ties, I can mount an LN2 cooler in about 2 minutes with zip ties while blindfolded (the normal mounting kit takes way too freaken long), and most of my platforms end up getting custom designed 3d printed clamps or AIO mounts for the board where I can direct screw in without springs and apply as much pressure as I want (mine allow enough wiggle that they don't get stuck like in my above example where 1 screw could not get in if the others were even halfway tightened). Zip ties still dominate my test bench!
small correction, seems that some second gen CPUs are being shipped with the “third gen only” solid aluminum block. got a r5 2600 with one here, presumably was made after the cheaper cooler was introduced id think
I couldn't believe how loud and obnoxious the bearings are on the Wraith Spire fan that came with my 3600X - immediately threw the whole thing in the bin.
a faster spinning fan is cheaper to produce too. higher RPM in a DC fan motor is created by (all other things being equal) LESS copper windings. - (sacrificing torque, or pulling more current) Lens's law WRT inductive reactance, means more windings will resist rate of change (polarity and current continually reversing through the coil) so more windings means a slower higher torque motor.
Is the Spire included on the R5 3400G? That might be part of how they got the price down from $170 for the 2400G down to $150 for the 3400G. If the 2400G only came with the Stealth previously, then they definitely made the Spire cheaper to be able to include it on the 3400G.
@@DerrickRG oh fuck off if your buying a like 500-600 dollar CPU your probably building a 1500-2000 dollar PC... you're going to buy an after market cooler. Its not like Intel gives you a choice if you want a after market cooler or not while being more expensive and slower
Intel also had copper core stock coolers before. I've tested on a Q9550 and compared to recent intel stock cooler (those half inch thick aluminum fins) is 4 - 5 C cooler on idle and can get to 10 C cooler under load.
I have a better tip for AMD. Ditch the cooler in it's entirety. Sell processor for less. Pay less for shipping the processor, etc. etc. etc. Unless it's extreme budget, I hardly know anyone who will use the box cooler. Even the relatively decent ones are too noisy for my taste. I'm currently using a NH-D14, which is close to 10 years old. And a year ago, I contacted them and they sent me a AM4 kit free of charge. The fans haven't failed yet; this is what, like $80 over 10+ years of the same (silent) aircooler.
I only use the 2700x one on my 2600x on my server in the basement because it is 24/7 and I don't want to worry about AIO leaking problems. My 2700x has an overkill kraken 360 on it and it is totally silent but also in my line of sight. Still don't trust water 100 percent.
Considering it's 7nm too, there's probably an incentive to put more trust in the thermal improvements alone. If giving better products means that you can allow yourself to cut corners and have a slightly lesser option that gives similar if not the same results at the expense of factors that are more or less important, it only makes sense. All those extra pennies matter in the end if you want the revenue to keep the race going. Aftermarket still exists anyway and those options are still miles better while not as expensive if you really care about performance/noise which the box cooler never will really achieve.
Steve your video made a bunch of nerds heads explode. The AMD fans are throwing up their pitchfork against AMD over a 1.5-3%. Some are threatening to leave to intel. Honestly the difference is soo minor that it’s negligible. If performance matters to you then you would ditch the cooler no matter what and get a better air cooler, AIO or customer waterloop.
Just realized this. No wonder I can’t seem to lower the RPM. Bought a new and unused cooler/fan for my Athlon 220GE for web browsing. It’s constantly idle at upper 1650 rpm and humming. The CoolMaster can be lower to 800+ rpm. “They never made/built things like they used to”. Well back to the second/used market.
My r5 2600 came a couple of days ago and I don't remember it having that copper insert. I've already built my pc so I really cba to double check but I am pretty certain that I got the new style cooler.
I was wondering about that. My 3600x revs up super loud under load, while my previous i7 never made any noticeable sound. I'll have to buy a decent replacement because it does bug me quite a bit.
A few more revisions, and it will be as "good" as the "cooler" that came with Intel for a long time. In all seriousness though, that's a shame. Hey, it's still included, when we all know it could be missing entirely.
The 2600 I bought a few weeks ago didn't have a copper bottom either... So it's not just the 3000 series they've started changing this on, the change was made before the new Ryzen generation even released...
@@saminavy7124 it's allmost like the interests of business are often opposite the interest of consumers and workers... and almost like that's a bad thing
@@saminavy7124 can i just point out fanboying over any company, be it Intel, AMD, or NVidia, is pretty stupid? none of these companies give a shit about you, and fanboying over them just helps their sales and not you. Just go with what fits your needs and budget better.
I still have my Spire Cooler with that copper insert that came with my R5 1500x(2019) and i currently use that to cool my r5 3600. Not gonna let go of that cooler.
The costs that AMD save go on customers: having a worse cooling solution makes you PC draw more current to do the same job, the increase in RPM of the fan does the same, surely we are talking about a few cents, but they are too.
Videos like this do make a difference, especially when some is considering whether to pick up something like an AIO or hold off because the box cooler is good enough for now.
I've purchased two Ryzens 2600 (non x) over the past year... and they both had wraith spires without the copper chamber. I don't really mind that much as I haven't even used them, just wanted to mention that. Purchased in Europe.
I already don't like the direction AMD is heading in. Bios updates prevent Zen 2 from hitting advertised boost speeds, they made an entire video talking about some magical +200mhz overclock that doesn't exist, their highest end CPU currently available only has 1 good CCD probably to differentiate from the 3950X if that even gets 2 good CCDs (they may all be going to epyc/threadripper), & they're cutting corners already to maximize profits. Didn't take them long to start sandbagging.
its not just the difference between the cooler but the product as well. the 1600 came with a great cooler while the 3600 comes with an inferior cooler, its like taking one step forward but 2 steps back
Actually TSMC and amd do a great job binning these, look at silicon lottery's info on 3700x vs 3800x frequencies. Theres just not a ton of variance in clock speeds on these
@@wile123456 only one in five 3700x can run stable at 4.15GHz, and all 3800x's can run 4.2 stable. Dont get me wrong, binned chips will ALWAYS have a worse price/performance than their low bin equivilent, making them a bad deal, especially when talking about a low end SKU like the 3600x. I forgot where i was going with this rant. I guess i dont really care, so long as the cooler is just as good (thermally), AMD AMD passes on the savings to the consumer (which they seem to be this generation)
The savings come from the elimination of a lot of machining steps needed to make and install the vapor chamber plus the elimination of relatively expensive copper. And the new fan is probably cheaper as well.
I bought a Spire w/ copper core, just to make sure I have it, once I get a R5 3600 (before they disappear from the stores). Overpowered? Yes. Definitely. But my Wraith Stealth will just go to my HTPC which has an Athlon 200ge. Should be more quiet in those hot summer days now, even if temps reach the same levels.
Hi Steve. Thank you. I hope they haven't done something similar with the R7 3700X... Since I bought one recently. Still in the box waiting to be assembled. Hope I don't regret it. Was leaning to the 2700X at the time but did a last-minute switch. Cheers
I definitely regret not going for the aftermarket cooler from the get go. I've definitely installed everything correctly but it still runs hot. Thanks AMD, very happy with my first purchase.
My 2200g will reach up to 83c when gaming, CPU 3.5ghz IGPU 1.300 1.1 volt, RAM 3000mhz. Sometimes spiking at 92c when igpu is running at 1500mhz 1.3 volt. Sense I'm planning on upgrading to a 3600 with Rx 5700 I'm definitely buying a cooler
Thanks for the video !!!!! Now I wonder if they also made changes on the stealth and the prism for this 3xxx ryzen chips, maybe dif fan manufacture, more or less weight, who knows ??? I will also like to now what are your thoughts on buget oolers for Ryzen 3600, would an cooler master Hyper 410r or 412r, be better than stock one, or maybe a DC Gammax 200 or 300?
Nice catch Steve. :) I think it would be interesting to see how temperature and noise changes with Zen+ and copper cooler vs Zen2 with the new cooler at stock frequencies. Maybe they didn't saw a significant change in noise in that case (which would be the one that an average customer would really experience imo)
I don't really have an issue with CPUs shipping with a cheaper cooler, but why did they have to keep the name? It's a bit of a shame that the CPU division is starting to pull the same shenanigans as RTG.
This was my question too. What's the difference if any between the previous generations. I had a 2700X and a Wraith Prism. Decided to use that on my 3600X.
That sucks. I always use an after market heat sink in my builds but I know a lot of people do use the included cooler. I wouldn't necessarily mind hotter temps but the noise? No thank you.
It's great that you tested this, but could you please also include some "loudness tests"? Even just something like a pinned comment under the video saying copper is x and new is y dB, otherwise if you don't have the testing equipmennt or any other reason why you didn't include that is also fine. I just find it strange that you didn't include that and want to know why you didn't.
The stock wraith spire that came with my r5 3600 had very poor performance. Bad thermals and very loud fan. I upgraded to a cryorig r7 and dropped 5-7 degrees at Idle and 13-15 degrees under load while being much quieter. The wraith was hitting thermal limits after only 6minutes on prime95. The h7 topped out at 80 degrees after 2 hours on prime95
But the cooler isn't the bad part, the pre applied thermal paste it's an authentic glue, I bought a newer cooler when I tried to remove the stock it came out everything including the cpu, luckily didn't damage the cpu pins, that was an hassle.
Thats normal for amd, because amd got the pins on the cpu not like intel on the mobo. So the cpu isnt hold in so hard. My fx8320 stuck to the cooler too after putting new thermal compound on it
Luis, if you want to take an amd cpu out of the socket but the thermal paste glued the cooler to the cpu then heat the cpu with some benchmarks and then attempt to remove the cooler from the cpu or you can try to pry the cooler from the cpu with a knife or some tool that is flat.
Please note, both versions of the Wraith Spire feature fans with 5 blades, the 7 blade fan was throw on last minute for the a-roll, it's from the Stealth, that was a mistake. The fans shown individually in the videos b-roll are correct.
Great vid, not many people give reviews on stock coolers so this was perfect
With Zen 2 behaving more like GPUs in terms of self regulating its clock, does a 3600 clock higher on a 1600s cooler than its own?
What a shame that now you are recommending an after market cooler but while comparing intel and amd cpus in your reviews you added the cooler price only to the intel cpus to make them less value for money compared to the amd cpus. This is utterly disgusting to see this come out of Hardware unboxed!. I had mentioned the same on your original reviews too.
I had no idea they changed the cooler. Thanks for this video I'm going to buy a 3600, but I intend on using my 360mm aio since I recently upgraded to a custom loop. Did any of the other stock coolers change? Thanks working so hard to bring us these videos, it really does help out a lot! You are awesome!
@@therealb888 utterly disgusting is a bit of an overstatement, however i agree with you that he shouldn't have included cooler cost with the intel cpu. You know the price without the cooler anyway so its not that big of a deal. Let's be honest here, even with cutting costs on the new cooler, it's not much of a temp difference and if overclocking is something you want to do; go with intel.
"Back to our regular type content in a few days"
THIS should be regular type content. Thank you Steve for being an actual reviewer of products and not just a medium for showing graphs of game FPS.
Please do more investigative work.
@mylifeonhigh
Agreed
@Serial Thrilla I don't deny what you are saying. I am merely wanting him to add things like this to his regular content
Then I guess you're OBVIOUSLY supporting them on Patreon to allow them to make more like that video right?
Riiiiight?
@@Allyouknow5820 yes
These graphs take a long time to produce, with many benchmark runs involved. He provides valuable information to us that tests unique situations and gives us results that no other RUclips channels show. Please don't disrespect that, he is not 'just a medium for showing graphs'. That said, investigative videos are good because he showed us that AMD are cutting some corners now as well.
Ditch the copper increase the fan speed ez money
Basically. Sad but true
Seems as AMD isn´t all that immune from doing one of Intel´s many mishaps neither.
@@TheRealFobican mishap? They have to make money in some way. It would be cool to keep the Box cooler in my System. But its just too loud.
Sad but im not mad. Most Intel coolers " go right in the trash".
To be fair amd delivered killer performance CPUs at a very customer friendly price with the smaller Ryzen 3000 models. I've seen many benchmarks where even the small 3600 beats an Intel i9 at what? A quarter of Intel's price?
I can overlook and accept AMD cutting costs on boxed coolers. Most customers go for custom cooling solutions anyway.
@@NordicGamingDE Like having the best selling CPUs not enough huh?
Intel did the same thing back then. (No it's not an excuse, it's a bad thing)
Intel had a copper slug, not a vapor chamber. Very big difference in cost.
@@Michael-OBrien When did they have copper in their coolers? I thought they've always been just aluminum blocks
Joacim Sarén There were large core 2 quad and core 2 duo stock coolers with copper.
@@oscarl-b8870 Nice! I'm too young to ever have owned those :D
@@jogeem5480 Well, I do.
As soon as they no longer offered the Wraith Spire RGB cooler, I would have figured the copper insert would be gone as their "no compromises" heatsink is Wraith Prism now.
This kind of videos is the reason I like the channel. Keep up the good work!
Exposing greed is a great public service. Thanks man.
To be fair we don't know how much of the gained margine is going straight to amd. Some of it might have transfered to retail price cuts too. Or amd just keeps all of it we probably may never know :/
that's not really greed, they need to make money because they made huge debts to bring on the market the strong lineup they recently reached. time to harvest now
If greed didn't exist, AMD wouldn't exist. Or intel. Or PCs.
It's amazing how fast people get outraged and turn on these companies over something so innocuous.
Honestly it's comments like the OP that I kinda wish AMD closes up and gives a middle finger to all the enthusiasts as Intel rapes the market.
@@robertt9342 they are talking about nothing, and Intel prices are almost 2x
1:50 They have different blade counts, one has 5 and one has 8. Then later you show at 3:21 that one has 5 blade and the second one at 3:58 having 5 fins too. Did you mix up the fan up with another one?
Nothing gets past us viewers Steve! ;)
Pro gamer moment
I think it was 7 blade.
Yeah Steve probably mixed them up. I think that might be from the Wraith Stealth first gen.
Based on a video comparison I've seen they changed it to 5 fins last year/second gen.
8:07
AMD needs to start offering their CPUs without included heat sink at a reduced price. Even if it's only $10 off. It's silly to force people to buy the included heat sink if they're not going to use it. It's just crazy to start cutting corners on quality when you are finally making some headway against Intel for the first time in over a decade.
When they offered without heatsinks people complained they wanted the heatsink. Thats why ryzen 2 shipped with all heatsinks.
@PC MR Yeah having more products is a hassle particularly for retailers who will likely end up holding stock of the less popular option for longer, and chances are the cooler doesn't cost even $10 to produce so the price difference would end up being negligible, or AMD would have to reduce their margins.
No! Fuck off with that shit, AMD got it right.
buy it used or from ali express then
You know the drill, get a cpu cooler from an older platform and you just saved a few bucks for better cooling.
VAPOR CHAMBER ??? I had no idea. I thought it was solid copper core.
Mandragoras it would have been a lot heavier because copper is really dense compared to air and a little fluid
Good find, very disappointing they solved so many other issues with 3000 series then pull something dumb like this
The cheaper their processors,the more damage they can do to Intel dominance.
Those that buy their coolers separately,won't care either way.
As for those that normarly wouldn't,but this might motivate them to do so,will be more interested to get shiny new CPU for as cheap as possible.
Either way,it won't hurt AMD sales...probably.
@@GameslordXY they're not cheaper a less than 50$ die sold for 330$ is already enough margin
It isn't like it's a problem, especially compared to Intel's cooling
@@tuckerhiggins4336 stop defending anti consumer garbage like a dumbass, if you keep giving them excuses they'll become worse than intel.
Do we want to have better box cooler or more expensive product...
and that depends on. If you in anyway put on aftermarket cooler, it is better to have cheaper one. If you don`t change the cooler, then it is better to pay more and get better box cooler. There is not rigth or wrong choise in here. Just different choises.
They went all in with the first coolers to make a good first impression, and now that they're settled in the market, they cut costs
Or the new CPU´s are more expensive to make so they had to make a decision to maintain compettiive prices, so they decided to cut on the cooler.
Well I mean the Prism is still included on models that need it.
@@The_Curious_Cat Yup I think that might the reason, making smaller cpu die has it's expenses. No one complained about Intel when they were doing it all these years. Yet again I can't say AMD are the good guys either. They sell a CPU that takes 70-80$ to make for 350-400$. But again Intel sold the same double what AMD did & I feel it's better to trust the devil nearby than to wait for the angel to arrive.
@@laxminarayananks1520 Always remember that BOM cost is different from R&D costs.
How about the new and old Wraith Prism coolers
I have the new prism, copper base with 4 heat pipes.
@@rohantankey752 but he just proved it doesn't have copper
@@rohantankey752 wait there's a difference between Wraith Prism and Spire? Which come with what CPU?
@@SlayerSeraph I have a 3900x, came with a prism. It has copper.
Ransom Seraph The Spire comes with the 3600(x) and the Prism comes with the 3700x and above
G'day Steve,
I was wondering how the new Spire performed compared to the older one when I heard they were different,
So if you are upgrading from a Ryzen 5 1000/2000 to R5 3600 use your earlier fan 😁, I've been really happy with my Spire LED I got with my R5 1400 (I talked they guy I got it from into giving me the upgraded fan from his R7 2700)
Said the cooler was louder but did not show db levels or provide any audio examples so we could see exactly how much louder. The temps were basically the same so I think it's important to include noise levels.
I seriously hope AMD acknowledges their mistake and start making proper stock coolers again.
I get it, 7nm consumes less power, but still, you can't just downgrade stuff. It also ended bad for intel, their latest stock coolers are atrocious
You say they can't and yet they did. I don't think that word means what you think it means.
I have a 2600x and I put the one from my 2700x on it. I may have to pull out the 2600x one to take a look at it tonight.
@Tab but if they changed the name then they wouldn't be monetizing the good impression they'd left with the wraith spires before the downgrade ;)
I had a 1600 and got a 3600x for 230, kept the old spire cooler because of the copper. I was curious about this for awhile, thanks for the video!
Going from 1600 to 3600x do you feel a big difference in performance?
@@Anthonyelmio2 I'm at 1080p 144hz attempting to pull as many fps out I can. I had overclocked my 1600 to 3.8ghz but had occasional stability issues. I noticed a difference in demanding games like FFXV, and Witcher 3 but I'd have been better off with a better graphics card. But this is part of a 2 step upgrade process for borderlands 3 hopefully.
@@demofighter I got mine to overclock to 3.9 at 1440p 144 hz mostly get 80-90 fps but I play at high settings with a gtx 1080 maybe I should start lowering the settings to get higher fps but some games don't like the overclock
@@Anthonyelmio2 yeah that was my reason for an upgrade, I was playing dues ex mankind divided and the game would just stop on me :\ looking to get either a 5700 or 5700 xt in the future. Or something that comes in around the gtx 1660 ti. I'd get a used card as well but I'm looking for that big bump in performance so I can move to 1440p eventually.
I wish I could just save $10 and get the CPU without cooler.
That said, the low profile coolers might come in handy "eventually" if after upgrading I try and stick my old hardware into a SFF case.
Bud The Cyborg not if you value your hearing/sanity
@@GTFour Chances are an outdated system would mostly just become an HTPC, the CPU likely wouldn't be doing much.
Amd, pay attention: put out a questionnaire and ask the community is there is a place for an hypothetical R5 3600F, you get it?
As there are out there extremely cheap and very good cooling solution, as the Snowman or other similar.
I myself have a non name 6 heatpipes and under 2000rpm crap 90mm fan, keeping the r5 3600 below 50 Celsius and under 60 at continuous 100% load.
So, the "F"anless version is more than welcomed.
Just think about it...
Let´s think about just how many users really do care about CPU cooler. In real numbers, it will always be a minority, as most people just don´t care. It´s hot? Who cares, it works. It´s loud? Who cares, it works. Etc
After seeing this vid im happy i bought my Noctua AM4 kit a week before i ordered my Ryzen CPU as i remember how BOX cooler was back then with AMD Phenom processors and i will possibly never use that cooler myself, but no one ever knows if there will be any need for it.
As for cheap cooling solutions - you´ll buy high quality air cooling solution only once and only change fans as they wear out, only AiO coolers are a bit different, since they are expensive, but they don´t have long life like high quality air cooler and their only "bonus" is fancy look.
I didn't even use the cooler that came with my 3600, I got a brand new unused Wraith Prism of a mate who bought the 3700x and put it straight on water.
I used the Prism for about 3 days before I went out & bought the CoolerMaster Masterliquid ML240L RGB AIO, because the Prism was so noisy.
My system is much quieter now, and running much cooler, and I'm happier. :)
Another great review Steve. Keep the great content coming.
I need to ask, does the 3700X prism have the copper vapor chamber or full aluminium?
@@seb2750. The Wraith Prism has 4 heat pipes that run across the CPU, Like most after market tower coolers.
The 3500 RPM fan was also present on some 1st and 2nd gen ryzen coolers
I have a Foxconn branded fan but with the cooler master's 5 blades fan, came with my 2200g bought a year ago
Could they be splitting up manufacturing based on geography? That keeps shipping costs at a minimum - and then mixing them up when one location would need more than the other
@@Agyapas97 They are splitting manufacturing, but it is not based on geography. I live in France, and I have seen both fan designs.
1:53 - "They physically look the same" - Ray Charles called, he said you can keep the glasses :D
5 curved blades vs 8 straight blades
They both have the same number of blades, I put the Wraith Stealth fan back on by mistake.
@@Hardwareunboxed I'll let you off then 😁
I just heard Foxconn and it irked me.
... I can't believe you've done this.
(No, actually, I can't believe you did this! Thank you for running this test!)
Yesman has a solution called the "Snowman".
Not as good as my "Frosty" (this Frosty nickname is not Frosty the Snowman), its my phase cooler, sub-zero 24/7 if ya want it! Little more expensive than the free stock cooler or Brian's Snowman recommendation, but its like 80c colder...
It's called "de-contenting." It's a pretty standard practice across numerous industries (most notably the auto industry) where a new model launches with all the bells and whistles "standard" and then successive models have less and less amenities, but the price stays the same or goes up...
Another issue is that China does this a LOT by sending reviewers super nice models at unbelievable prices (later you know why...), and then the consumers get something completely worse. They tell the reviewer its either a finished production prototype or the actual model, but then like maybe the first 1000 units (basically first 2 days of orders) and then they switch it, they don't even bother updating product descriptions until people complain (which is like a month later since its being shipped from across the world). It makes the company look bad, the reviewer gets angry that the review is basically worthless now and ruins their fame, and the customers are not happy being sold a different product without warning. The crazy part is (for a lot of race quad copters especially prevalent), most of the time it would be a perfectly good product at an excellent price anyways, and they would still get great reviews and sell just as many or more anyways, but they just go over the top with some BS parts or cherry picking and ship out something else (even when its just as good, its still annoying, because why couldn't they have just sent the reviewer the equally good part so you know what you're getting?).
In airospace, we absolutely hate calling things the same model if its slightly different. A hole 1/8 inch different position? NOT THE SAME PART NUMBER! because if you try to stick it on another plane and it doesn't fit, then its obviously not the same part (most of the time its blank drill to match existing holes for mods, avoiding this issue). Then you get marketing crap like the 747 "max", like its not even a 747 planform, its a whole freaken different thing! But Boeing does some weird stuff... Some planes made on different days are different (sigh... same model and drawings... then you'll have a note with all the tail numbers affected by some change...). At least minor differences is kind of acceptable, but I don't like these massive feature differences (AMD copper vs no copper, fast fan, etc).
Wohoo! I have one with copper slug.
I'll be able to sell it to a collector in 20 years.
Lol I have 2 so let the wait begin!
Loved the detail everyone missed..
Although I have 3900X with H115i Platinum but for recommending others, this was very beneficial to me.
Keep up the great work.
Expected this to happen. Wraith Spire RGB has been no more since 2nd gen correct?
Correct, because you now get a Wraith Prism instead.
I use my first-gen Wraith Spire from 1600 on 2600x(4.0Ghz 1.2125v), because the one in box with 2600x was a bit lighter, had thinner aluminum, so, there is at least 3 gens of them, did not compare them because i gave it away the same moment...
you can buy the 1600 or 2600 original spire cooler 2nd head for peanuts
I've seen people giving them away for free.
@@LuisC7 I need those people in my life. Take all the copper off each cooler, take to scrap metal place = profit.
WHERE?
@@MafiaboysWorld Are you sure you wouldn't wanna just tape them all over your body and become a bionicle?
@@myew8238 Budget cosplay, I like your style. 😉
Glad you made this video. After hearing all the great things about the Wraith coolers I’ve tried the coolers from 3600, 3600X, and the 3700x. The Prism is nice looking and works ok, the other two were pretty noisy and under sustained load temps got uncomfortably warm. I have them to test because I didn’t use them. Now I’m using the higher end coolers on lower end chips for budget builds.
This is definitely worth scrutinising, but reading these comments I think people are taking it too seriously.
This is a cooler. A large portion of the people buying ryzen products will be the sort of people who want aftermarket cooling, or already have it.
The box cooler (and especially AMD's different tiers of box cooler) is a bonus that AMD aren't obliged to offer.
Yes, they have been offering genuinely good coolers with their older products, but I feel that's giving people q false sense of entitlement to good box coolers from AMD.
Of course it's not that simple, and I do agree that this is sort of dishonest and definitely not a good choice from AMD.
At this stage, we should just be wary of AMD's cost-saving tactics, and pay close attention in future. But already jumping the gun and claiming that they're the new intel already (from a shadiness pov), is a bit insane honestly.
They made a cooler (that many people don't even touch) a bit louder and heavier for the same performance. That doesn't make them the devil. It doesn't make them intel. They haven't gimped us. They just offer a slightly worse cooler than they have done before.
The spire is still miles ahead of any intel cooler, and AMD's CPUs are still far better value than intel's right now.
Be vigilant, but be realistic about what they've actually done here. Very little.
Solid state tech did something on the new cooler, too...always love to hear Hardware Unboxed's thoughts on stuff like this! I didn't realize the fan was different...just assumed it spun faster bc more need to do so. Thanks for the great content as always!
Would be interesting to know how many box coolers get used and how many replaced.
Test the intel boxed on 65w TDP CPUs with the new x570 board with intel mount
How do I mount it to the AM4 socket?
Hardware Unboxed zip tie it?
@@Hardwareunboxed there is one AsRock ITX X570 Board With an Intel mount
@Florian Oprescu Ofc doofus, he's talking about the cooler not the cpu. You high?
Florian Oprescu also amd use pga not bga
You could also Throw in the Wraith Prism and Hyper 212's for comparison!
I just got the cooler master 212 black edition for now
Por aqui achei um compatriota, bom saber que tem dos nossos por essas bandas
For which Ryzen you using?
@@seb2750 3600
Thank you Steve, that's what I signed up for. Bought a used Ryzen 1700 with the 1st Gen Spire, replaced the fan with a bequiet 120mm case fan that overlaps by quite a bit and thankfully cools my RAM and the VRM, and lastly used Liquid metal, since it is a copper baseplate!
Yes, It works, after months there hasn't been a sign of liquid metal getting into the aluminIum and with my max loads, I dont ever see temps above 70°. Why upgrade? :D
create isolation dude prevent particle gallium became fly to another conponent,
Example; Kapton Tape
How many people complaining here use the stock cooler anyway?
Exactly my point lmao
@@Lucifer-cj7et Personally, I don't care much whether the cooler that's sitting in my CPU box is copper or not, while the Noctua cooler is installed on my CPU (as I'm sure most of us here do).
I use it on my 3600 but that's only because I haven't decided if I want to water cool yet or not. Even this cheaper cooler is significantly quieter than my old H60 (120mm AIO) so I don't mind it.
@@6Twisted Water cooling is dumb. So dumb they should stop using it for CPU benchmarks
Oh, so thats why my latest ryzen build was so loud. I thought i just didnt notice in the previous gens and noticed with the 3rd gen build. Weird.
I swear people in charge of AMD cooling solutions must be deaf.
or people in the cooling solution did point it out, but got denied because its "too expensive"
OMG Steve, you did it you mad lad! Hahaha!
I do remember requesting this a month or two ago :) glad to see that not only Patreon members are being listened to ^_^ but also us regular RUclips views
Keep up with fighting the good fight HWUB!
Kinda expected but still sh!tty...
and weren't there 2 variants of the Spire design with Ryzen 2000 already?
Man this photo are perfect whit this comment! :D
is it the wraith spire and stealth?
@@Yerinjibbang yup... but they look similar nevertheless :)
@@FIRSTEBITOS lol why? xD She's a ranty character at times with a dry sense of humour....
@@previousslayer i dont know i just imagined she talking this and in my mind this just fit perfectly...
Excellent video, Steve. It's important that things like this be talked about publicly. People should know about these things so they can make the most informed choices possible, and they need to remember, and sometimes be reminded, that companies are not their friends.
The boxed Ryzen coolers are a dream to install vs. the absolute c-rap Intel push-pin coolers. Intel needs to get with it and nuke the push-pin system from orbit.
This ! I've seen so many of the intel OEM fans not being installed properly and the CPU overheating because of it. It's not because it's done cheaply but because it's a stupid design.
@@Bareego Haha, I almost thought my Ryzen stock cooler was on correctly (thumb screw wasn't moving easy), but when I got my screwdriver one of the corners kept spinning... and spinning... and spinning...). It looked flat to me, but it just didn't get in the hole from the beginning when I was X pattern tightening them in increments and I didn't notice by hand (it was basically un-turnable by hand, I guess it was trying to drill in sideways or something). But otherwise its ok (they just need more wiggle for the screws).
AM3+ has by far one of the fastest and reliable methods, AM4 is at least way better than the piece of garbage TR4 (it looks like they way over-thought it, but then everything was so freaken sloppy on I'm guessing my Foxcon made socket, that half the memory never detects like a lot of people experience, you have to remount like 20 times in worst case, that was a horrible weekend!). I typically use zip ties, I can mount an LN2 cooler in about 2 minutes with zip ties while blindfolded (the normal mounting kit takes way too freaken long), and most of my platforms end up getting custom designed 3d printed clamps or AIO mounts for the board where I can direct screw in without springs and apply as much pressure as I want (mine allow enough wiggle that they don't get stuck like in my above example where 1 screw could not get in if the others were even halfway tightened). Zip ties still dominate my test bench!
small correction, seems that some second gen CPUs are being shipped with the “third gen only” solid aluminum block. got a r5 2600 with one here, presumably was made after the cheaper cooler was introduced id think
I couldn't believe how loud and obnoxious the bearings are on the Wraith Spire fan that came with my 3600X - immediately threw the whole thing in the bin.
Mark Pointon keep it as a backup cooler?
sell it on craigslist man
a faster spinning fan is cheaper to produce too. higher RPM in a DC fan motor is created by (all other things being equal) LESS copper windings. - (sacrificing torque, or pulling more current) Lens's law WRT inductive reactance, means more windings will resist rate of change (polarity and current continually reversing through the coil) so more windings means a slower higher torque motor.
Everyone on this vid: AMD is doing it cheap now
Me: You guys have Ryzens?
Florian Oprescu Wow. A 3rd gen.
Meanwhile, here I am with a 2nd/3rd gen i5 and a Pentium G4400.
I have a 1600 and a celeron g3900 which was a great processor for working on office work, not good for gaming
The Cooler Master fan (long fan blades) was included with the EU retail Ryzen chips, the other one (AVC) was included with asian market skus.
Well... Time to sell the stock cooler from my 2600X...
That what i was just thinking
What after market cooler you guys using for 2600X?
@@seb2750 Arctic Freezer 34 Esport Duo
@@seb2750 Be Quiet! Dark Rock 4
Is the Spire included on the R5 3400G? That might be part of how they got the price down from $170 for the 2400G down to $150 for the 3400G. If the 2400G only came with the Stealth previously, then they definitely made the Spire cheaper to be able to include it on the 3400G.
Still better than Intel stock cooler
EXACTLY , People are complaining stock cooler gets too hot for a 3900X? If you cant afford an aftermarket for a 12 core don't buy the 3900X
@@saminavy7124 Typical AMD fanboy excuses.
@@DerrickRG what ever you say , thanks for your constructive feedback. Normal for an intel fan girl response
@@DerrickRG oh fuck off if your buying a like 500-600 dollar CPU your probably building a 1500-2000 dollar PC... you're going to buy an after market cooler.
Its not like Intel gives you a choice if you want a after market cooler or not while being more expensive and slower
Comparing temperatures not really. For non-k CPUs intel box cooler is ok and operate temperatures like 65-70 degrees Celsius
Intel also had copper core stock coolers before. I've tested on a Q9550 and compared to recent intel stock cooler (those half inch thick aluminum fins) is 4 - 5 C cooler on idle and can get to 10 C cooler under load.
Penny pinching, hopefully not a sign of things to come from AMD.
AMD are no-ones friends but the share holder.
I bought 2600 3 months ago and it came with newer cooler. Now I know why it was so loud, upgraded to aftermarket coller now.
I have a better tip for AMD. Ditch the cooler in it's entirety. Sell processor for less. Pay less for shipping the processor, etc. etc. etc.
Unless it's extreme budget, I hardly know anyone who will use the box cooler. Even the relatively decent ones are too noisy for my taste. I'm currently using a NH-D14, which is close to 10 years old. And a year ago, I contacted them and they sent me a AM4 kit free of charge. The fans haven't failed yet; this is what, like $80 over 10+ years of the same (silent) aircooler.
I only use the 2700x one on my 2600x on my server in the basement because it is 24/7 and I don't want to worry about AIO leaking problems. My 2700x has an overkill kraken 360 on it and it is totally silent but also in my line of sight. Still don't trust water 100 percent.
Considering it's 7nm too, there's probably an incentive to put more trust in the thermal improvements alone. If giving better products means that you can allow yourself to cut corners and have a slightly lesser option that gives similar if not the same results at the expense of factors that are more or less important, it only makes sense. All those extra pennies matter in the end if you want the revenue to keep the race going. Aftermarket still exists anyway and those options are still miles better while not as expensive if you really care about performance/noise which the box cooler never will really achieve.
Steve your video made a bunch of nerds heads explode. The AMD fans are throwing up their pitchfork against AMD over a 1.5-3%. Some are threatening to leave to intel.
Honestly the difference is soo minor that it’s negligible. If performance matters to you then you would ditch the cooler no matter what and get a better air cooler, AIO or customer waterloop.
The funny part is that there is no performance difference, the only degradation is from noise levels. These morons will get angry about anything.
Just realized this. No wonder I can’t seem to lower the RPM. Bought a new and unused cooler/fan for my Athlon 220GE for web browsing. It’s constantly idle at upper 1650 rpm and humming. The CoolMaster can be lower to 800+ rpm.
“They never made/built things like they used to”. Well back to the second/used market.
My 2400g has the same cooler of the new spire. It's possible they've ditched the copper for quite some time.
2400g comes with the Stealth, these are Spires.
Ryzen R3 series always where delivered with the Wraith Stealt (not the Spire) The Stealt is a lower profile all aluminum cooler.
You probably have the Wraith Stealth not the Spire. The Stealth is shorter and has always been aluminum.
¸2400g comes with a stealth cooler not the spire. The stealth cooler never had the cooper insert.
My r5 2600 came a couple of days ago and I don't remember it having that copper insert. I've already built my pc so I really cba to double check but I am pretty certain that I got the new style cooler.
I was wondering about that. My 3600x revs up super loud under load, while my previous i7 never made any noticeable sound. I'll have to buy a decent replacement because it does bug me quite a bit.
A few more revisions, and it will be as "good" as the "cooler" that came with Intel for a long time. In all seriousness though, that's a shame. Hey, it's still included, when we all know it could be missing entirely.
The 2600 I bought a few weeks ago didn't have a copper bottom either... So it's not just the 3000 series they've started changing this on, the change was made before the new Ryzen generation even released...
What can i say,
It's just a Good Business
Still waay better than Intel can offer tho
Watch out, you're gonna get flamed for saying that just as I did
@@saminavy7124 it's allmost like the interests of business are often opposite the interest of consumers and workers... and almost like that's a bad thing
@@uzimyspecial I know right
@PC MR how's your after Intels been through you? Must be pretty damn wife buddy
@@saminavy7124 can i just point out fanboying over any company, be it Intel, AMD, or NVidia, is pretty stupid? none of these companies give a shit about you, and fanboying over them just helps their sales and not you. Just go with what fits your needs and budget better.
I still have my Spire Cooler with that copper insert that came with my R5 1500x(2019) and i currently use that to cool my r5 3600.
Not gonna let go of that cooler.
The costs that AMD save go on customers: having a worse cooling solution makes you PC draw more current to do the same job, the increase in RPM of the fan does the same, surely we are talking about a few cents, but they are too.
Videos like this do make a difference, especially when some is considering whether to pick up something like an AIO or hold off because the box cooler is good enough for now.
Hardware Unboxed is so biased.
Biased towards the interest of consumers.
I've purchased two Ryzens 2600 (non x) over the past year... and they both had wraith spires without the copper chamber. I don't really mind that much as I haven't even used them, just wanted to mention that. Purchased in Europe.
I already don't like the direction AMD is heading in. Bios updates prevent Zen 2 from hitting advertised boost speeds, they made an entire video talking about some magical +200mhz overclock that doesn't exist, their highest end CPU currently available only has 1 good CCD probably to differentiate from the 3950X if that even gets 2 good CCDs (they may all be going to epyc/threadripper), & they're cutting corners already to maximize profits. Didn't take them long to start sandbagging.
That's absolutely fascinating.. I received my 3600 on the 15th of July, and last I checked, it has the copper vapor chamber!
That would be odd, it shouldn't.
bruh moment
its not just the difference between the cooler but the product as well. the 1600 came with a great cooler while the 3600 comes with an inferior cooler, its like taking one step forward but 2 steps back
Seeing that the 3600x is just an overpriced 3600 with not much better binning, I'm suprised they cut costs here
Actually TSMC and amd do a great job binning these, look at silicon lottery's info on 3700x vs 3800x frequencies. Theres just not a ton of variance in clock speeds on these
@@teddygoboom1 oh wow, a letter x on the box and 100mhz higher clocks
@@wile123456 true. Almost not even worth AMDs time to bin the lower end
@@wile123456 only one in five 3700x can run stable at 4.15GHz, and all 3800x's can run 4.2 stable. Dont get me wrong, binned chips will ALWAYS have a worse price/performance than their low bin equivilent, making them a bad deal, especially when talking about a low end SKU like the 3600x. I forgot where i was going with this rant. I guess i dont really care, so long as the cooler is just as good (thermally), AMD AMD passes on the savings to the consumer (which they seem to be this generation)
@@teddygoboom1 silicon lottery test on heavy AVX512 tests though, most chips can get 4.2 or 4.3 (atleast in some CCX's) in games and less heavy tests
Love this, nobody else does these comparisons!
I knew they would betray us
The savings come from the elimination of a lot of machining steps needed to make and install the vapor chamber plus the elimination of relatively expensive copper. And the new fan is probably cheaper as well.
its not jsut cost for copper material itself ..but also manufacturing/assembly cost is also reduced with just alminium.
I bought a Spire w/ copper core, just to make sure I have it, once I get a R5 3600 (before they disappear from the stores).
Overpowered? Yes. Definitely.
But my Wraith Stealth will just go to my HTPC which has an Athlon 200ge. Should be more quiet in those hot summer days now, even if temps reach the same levels.
This is information that I was curious about, but at the time I barely found any videos explaining the differences, and if they caused any detriments.
Hi Steve. Thank you. I hope they haven't done something similar with the R7 3700X... Since I bought one recently. Still in the box waiting to be assembled. Hope I don't regret it. Was leaning to the 2700X at the time but did a last-minute switch. Cheers
I definitely regret not going for the aftermarket cooler from the get go. I've definitely installed everything correctly but it still runs hot. Thanks AMD, very happy with my first purchase.
why didn't you talk about the dba difference of the stock coolers, you touched on the point but what exactly is the volume difference???
Wow great review! Was not expecting such a technical deep dive.
My 2200g will reach up to 83c when gaming, CPU 3.5ghz IGPU 1.300 1.1 volt, RAM 3000mhz. Sometimes spiking at 92c when igpu is running at 1500mhz 1.3 volt. Sense I'm planning on upgrading to a 3600 with Rx 5700 I'm definitely buying a cooler
Thanks for the video !!!!! Now I wonder if they also made changes on the stealth and the prism for this 3xxx ryzen chips, maybe dif fan manufacture, more or less weight, who knows ??? I will also like to now what are your thoughts on buget oolers for Ryzen 3600, would an cooler master Hyper 410r or 412r, be better than stock one, or maybe a DC Gammax 200 or 300?
Got the 3600 coming in the mail. Glade I baught that one to save money to buy an aftermarket cooler. Thanks for the video it was appreciated.
True
Nice catch Steve. :) I think it would be interesting to see how temperature and noise changes with Zen+ and copper cooler vs Zen2 with the new cooler at stock frequencies. Maybe they didn't saw a significant change in noise in that case (which would be the one that an average customer would really experience imo)
I don't really have an issue with CPUs shipping with a cheaper cooler, but why did they have to keep the name? It's a bit of a shame that the CPU division is starting to pull the same shenanigans as RTG.
Yeah I had the same thought, would have been less shady if they'd given it a new name.
This was my question too. What's the difference if any between the previous generations. I had a 2700X and a Wraith Prism. Decided to use that on my 3600X.
Loved this video keep up the great work!
great video - 10x. can you do a check up for the prism cooler too? is it worth replacing performance\dollar wise?
Thankfully I got a Wraith Spire that came with my 1500X, so when I do buy the 3600 on sale, I'll just grab some thermal paste and use it.
I'm about to replace the Stealth on my 3200G with a coppered Spire I just bought :)
That sucks. I always use an after market heat sink in my builds but I know a lot of people do use the included cooler. I wouldn't necessarily mind hotter temps but the noise? No thank you.
So does it mean for Wraith Stealth? Does it have better thermal performance due to faster fan spin speed when compared to first and second gen?
It's great that you tested this, but could you please also include some "loudness tests"? Even just something like a pinned comment under the video saying copper is x and new is y dB, otherwise if you don't have the testing equipmennt or any other reason why you didn't include that is also fine. I just find it strange that you didn't include that and want to know why you didn't.
The stock wraith spire that came with my r5 3600 had very poor performance. Bad thermals and very loud fan. I upgraded to a cryorig r7 and dropped 5-7 degrees at Idle and 13-15 degrees under load while being much quieter. The wraith was hitting thermal limits after only 6minutes on prime95. The h7 topped out at 80 degrees after 2 hours on prime95
My 3700x stock fan has heat pipes coming from sides and actually quite efficient the led rgb is nice touch
But the cooler isn't the bad part, the pre applied thermal paste it's an authentic glue, I bought a newer cooler when I tried to remove the stock it came out everything including the cpu, luckily didn't damage the cpu pins, that was an hassle.
AMD has always had that issue. Their socket design is terrible.
Thats normal for amd, because amd got the pins on the cpu not like intel on the mobo. So the cpu isnt hold in so hard. My fx8320 stuck to the cooler too after putting new thermal compound on it
Luis, if you want to take an amd cpu out of the socket but the thermal paste glued the cooler to the cpu then heat the cpu with some benchmarks and then attempt to remove the cooler from the cpu or you can try to pry the cooler from the cpu with a knife or some tool that is flat.