Fortunately I bought the DMM6500 at the time of launch so I am not jealous this time. I still can play with it. Unfortunately this the costly equipment I have on my bench beside one miniscule DS1074. Long way to go. Your videos always give insight that's viewers looking for.
Thanks for this review! It looks like a very comprehensive instrument, and definitely the next generation of test equipment. I really like how you can do so much directly on the instrument without a PC.
That seems to be built like an oscilloscope. Love it! Your video reminisced me of an idea I have going. I'm planning to design a power supply with both CV and CC modes, with the addition of having integrated voltmeter so it can be used as one (output shuts down and goes high impedance in that mode). Also able to trace V/I and I/V curves of components, if required. All in one unit, controlled by USB.
A better comparison to the DM3068 might be the DMM6500. The latter is a little more expensive, but specs and the single card option slot might be reasons for that.
So we can basically do production component testing/grading protocol on a bench multimeter screen? It's first time I see that fancy touchscreen interface paying out :)
right then! That's sold it to me. The amount of time I spend at work repairing/testing broken kit would be greatly reduced with one of these. I doubt my boss would endorse the purchase of daq6510 and the add-on board (unless he improves his english and watches this posting) - if the price goes down in a year or so, I'd buy one for use in my workshop at home though. Nice presentation Shahrier....thanks man!
Wow they made it WAY easier to use than my Keithley 3706a. That thing is pretty much only usable as a slow benchtop meter unless you get a computer to drive it. I've had a good opinion of the Keithley DAQs, but the new generation is nice indeed. I haven't tried Keysight's new DAQ970A yet but it's a step up above previous generation offerings like 34970A in terms of front-panel usefulness. I've always enjoyed using a normal DMM and a computer to make a high dynamic range oscilloscope. I did a cool project once with an HP 3458A in 5.5 digit mode and 50,000 readings per sec.
You might suggest that Keithley change from slotted to at least a symmetrical screw head such as a Phillips for their data acquisition inputs as this would allow a much higher number of cycles on each screw head without errors. de KQ2E
September 21st....Shahriar: Hi welcome to the Signal Path.This episode I have another product review for you guys. We're going to be taking a look at this alien craft on loan to me from yesterdays area 51 raid. So lets do some experiments, take it apart, and see if we can get it working.👽😂
Keep the prod reviews coming but also do share more often tutorials on the tech itself and/or actual real life examples how you use the equipment for your work as that is also interesting. And maybe make playlists where you split out vids in reviews, theory tutorials and maybe use-case examples. Would love 2 watch number of theory tutorials here. And as said before: ur utter cuteness can be distracting but it is a good distraction 😁😘
Holy.... Wow! They really went all out on this... thing... So its an semi oscilloscope, semi logic analyzer, multimeter, but can it brew coffee? Because, why not!
Ok, now I know what I was suspecting. There is absolutely no reason to choose the keysight 34461a over the keythley dmm 6500. The software and the capability of the multimeter section has left me speechless.
Hi Shahriar, a bit of a random question. At the moment I'm building a table for the lab but I'm unsure how high and deep to make them. It seems like you're quite happy your work surfaces. Could you share their dimensions?
The quality of this unit amazes me... The Chinese really know their stuff when building PCBs. I wish Fluke could make a board without botch wires. I've been in the market for a new DMM ever since my old Fluke 45 finally bit the dust. Looks like I found it!
The soft power switch is probably so it can be woken up remotely over the network. Quick test, plug in Ethernet and if you get link lights you know why...
6:33 May I please ask you about this isolation of digital and analog? As I understand it, by listening to Robert Feranec's channel, is the splitting a very bad idea that introduces more problem than it solves.:-)
Dear friend, thanks for the outstanding review of DAQ6510. Actually I am facing the problem of overflow message and hence loss of measured data when I am using 6 termocouples in 6 channels. I need to monitor 6 points of temperature each 30 seconds for 100 counts, but several times i get overflow in varied channels. Some points of the graph get blank. How do I solve this and why this happens?
For the Keithley 7700 acquisition module, when the DAQ scans Channel 122 for the current measurement, is there a monetary break in the current flow for the DUT? I can't tell from the documentation if the relay provides a make-before-break connection.
Great review as always Shariar! One question through: Am I missing out on functionality by not using TSP, or can I do the same stuff by interfacing via. LXI/USB using custom software? I love Keithley instruments! I use the SMU2450 and DMM7510 at work and the DMM6500 at home in combination with other types and brands of instruments. I've used the Kickstart software as a trial (and liked it), but I'm not keen on buying it. I've never used the TSP script. For measurement automation, I've over time built and refined my own software in C and MATLAB (only by small amounts in Python) depending on the application, using the NI-VISA driver for which I control the various instruments via LXI/USB/GPIB etc. I realize this might not be the case for the average user, but this approach gives me great cross-brand flexibility and other custom advantages at the cost of time spend writing software and verifying it works.
PLEASE HELP ME OUT : My multimeter is showing L1 FAIL . What to do? I was checking connectivity, suddenly it stopped showing Resistance and Showing OVER LOAD for every resistance.
Got the 6500 which is currently on offer for less than 1000€. Unfortunately no real power button and the transformer hums when off. Does Shariar collect those Keithleys ??
@@finbenton spec seems to be same, only 6500 has only Max one 10* multiplexer card (500€). Apps and trigger is the same afaik. For upper hobby level seems to me best choice currently for bench meter.
If it hums when off you should be able to return for service. Not defective per se (does not affect specs), but the transformers can be updated/replaced.
@@joshbrown5138 thanks for the info. It doesn't really bother me, it's more related to the non existing real power button and the resulting power consumption.
@@Thesignalpath Would be sad because my iPhone cant do anything for me except display the newspaper. Certainly a nice device but I like to do everything myself over LXI. VFD 's 'nuff for me.
@@Thesignalpath I for example don't fancy touchscreen interfaces, but if they let me get job done faster and easier I'll use it. If someone invents a tool that requires using let's say Nintendo Wii motion controls and it will help with my workflow, why not? In case of this meter/DAQ, it's a tool that let us do mass measurements that typically requires some VISA setup, scripting and/or dealing with proprietary software and drivers by tapping the screen on the multimeter few times.
Shame the software is a costed (and expensive, for what it is) option. Really should be included as standard; who on earth thinks "DAS" without it being fully integrated with a PC these days? Oh well, I'm sure some bundles will appear, but still a very poor showing from Keithley, IMHO. It's like all these "digital" scopes, which OOTB can't even do basic serial decode; sorry, sir, that's a costed option..
There is a lot packed into the DAQ6510 - in many cases a user could do without PC software. Still, hard to break the habit. To get my software to do what I want it usually takes me several hours to write. If I could get a code-savvy co-op to do it for me then it would be much more affordable.
What is the point of having 1MS/s, if your multiplexer is using relays? The device and unit is nicely engineered, but I am not impressed, especially considering the price. The extra IO board on top, this KTTI-TSP, it is pointless to put it as a separate board and option that you need to pay for. It would make much more sense to make it a standard, lowering number of parts, and lowering the total cost. Seriously, the only other IO boards, are the RS232 and GPIB options. There is enough space to fit all of it on the unit standard. And if there is not enough space, just use RS232 and TSP, and provide GPIB via small external dongle. It is just milking customers. These IO boards, have almost no engineering effort in designing them, and cost to make them, yet cost about 300-400$. LOL. Another week point, just look at the voltage reference placement and area around it. It is messy, I see no isolation of the reference, or taking care of leakage. Similarly, the front/back terminal switching, I do find weird in the unit like this. There are no BACK terminals on this unit per se. It should be controlled by relay, not a manual switch. It is also a bit unfortunate the fuse is buried deep inside the unit, and not available on front panel instead. On the acquisition board, you can see the connector that connects to the connector in the unit itself. The problem is, it is not secured to the PCB. There is even place to put screws, but I don't see any screws on it. So, it is likely the connector or solder will break off, as it will carry all the mechanical stress of plugging and unplugging the board. 6 temperature sensors for cold junction compensation, and good thermal coupling is a nice touch, but that it to be expected, otherwise the thermocouple measurements wouldn't be reliable or accurate, and it will be pointless to use high accuracy measurements. It is not even nice touch, it is a necessity, and is done in every good thermocouple based system. The most impressive parts, are the NEC/TOKIN relays, claiming 100 million actuations with no load (or very slow load, like thermocouples). That is actually magic. Similar ones are by KEMET. Possibly the same relays. I am not sure where you get your numbers for reliability. As I did find 1 million actuations at load (not full tho), not 100 thousends. At for a LATCHING type 10 million actuations with no load, not 100 million actuations. Ultimately the price is still quite competitive, but I wish Keithley optimized the cost a bit more, as well provided 4.5-digit multimeter with same similar plugin board, even if this allows me to reduce cost a bit. I often simply need 20 thermal / pressure sensors, but I don't need fricking 0.01% accuracy.
"What is the point of having 1MS/s, if your multiplexer is using relays?" I don't understand the question. No one is suggesting to switch the relays at 1MHz. You can sample ANY channel at 1MS/s. Clearly there are huge advantages to this.
@@Thesignalpath The I/O card 7700 is called 20 channel multiplexer. One could hear it switch as in connect ch1, measure ch1, disconnect ch1, connect ch2, measure ch2, ... in the first test. Measurement of 40 channels, 1ch/s would lag the measurement 40 seconds. It does this to provide galvanic isolation between all channels. Clever as it does not require dedicated analog sensor- and separation hardware. But i rather have an dedicated thermocouple circuit with proper thermocouple contacts read at (all most) once.
@@isojed - The switching across/between channels can be tuned to your liking. While you can program for 1 chan/s, this is quite slow in comparison to what the 7700 card is capable of. In fact, you will likely find (as I have) that you can acquire thermocouple measurements from all 20 available channels in < 1 s. (This gets faster when you use the reed or solid-state relay multiplexers.) You can view the measurements as the happen via the front panel, the scan progress swipe, and up to 20 channels on the graph.
Great review as usually, but the specs of the instrument are not that impressive. Digitizing 1MS/s current measurement falls to 7-12bits. Great for collecting data of complex setups though.
What a machine. The sheer amount of details and capability is mind boggling.
Thanks for the video.
Great review, and a lovely piece of test equipment!
Thank you. :)
Fortunately I bought the DMM6500 at the time of launch so I am not jealous this time. I still can play with it. Unfortunately this the costly equipment I have on my bench beside one miniscule DS1074. Long way to go. Your videos always give insight that's viewers looking for.
Thanks for this review! It looks like a very comprehensive instrument, and definitely the next generation of test equipment. I really like how you can do so much directly on the instrument without a PC.
That seems to be built like an oscilloscope. Love it!
Your video reminisced me of an idea I have going. I'm planning to design a power supply with both CV and CC modes, with the addition of having integrated voltmeter so it can be used as one (output shuts down and goes high impedance in that mode). Also able to trace V/I and I/V curves of components, if required. All in one unit, controlled by USB.
And... it's affordable! Not cheap, but affordable: the DAQ6510 is about 2x the price of a DM3068. With the 7700 input card in the video,
A better comparison to the DM3068 might be the DMM6500. The latter is a little more expensive, but specs and the single card option slot might be reasons for that.
I am speechless! First for your EXCELLENT video and experiments and then because of this device. Homer is drooling now
So we can basically do production component testing/grading protocol on a bench multimeter screen? It's first time I see that fancy touchscreen interface paying out :)
I HAVE PURCHSED THE 6510/7700 MODAL , TRYING TO LEARN THE SAME FOR MY RESEARCH WORK.. NICE VEDIO.. KEEP POSTING , THANK YOU
right then! That's sold it to me. The amount of time I spend at work repairing/testing broken kit would be greatly reduced with one of these. I doubt my boss would endorse the purchase of daq6510 and the add-on board (unless he improves his english and watches this posting) - if the price goes down in a year or so, I'd buy one for use in my workshop at home though.
Nice presentation Shahrier....thanks man!
@ The Signal Path: Thank you very much your excellent Rewiev! THX🙏💪😊
thanks, I was waiting for someone to make a video about this unit
Wow they made it WAY easier to use than my Keithley 3706a. That thing is pretty much only usable as a slow benchtop meter unless you get a computer to drive it. I've had a good opinion of the Keithley DAQs, but the new generation is nice indeed. I haven't tried Keysight's new DAQ970A yet but it's a step up above previous generation offerings like 34970A in terms of front-panel usefulness.
I've always enjoyed using a normal DMM and a computer to make a high dynamic range oscilloscope. I did a cool project once with an HP 3458A in 5.5 digit mode and 50,000 readings per sec.
FYI when you are doing screen capture you need to boost your audio level up about 6dB to keep a constant sound level in the video.
Is always so low.
I'd suggest using the same mic setup he uses for the intro and demo.
Hmmm. I thought I already adjusted it. I guess I have to fiddle with it some more.
Rocking 360p RUclips like it's 2005
Yep I noticed that.
James W. - I suspected as much, which is why I upload and then schedule my videos for release later.
and there's me thinking I need glasses
You might suggest that Keithley change from slotted to at least a symmetrical screw head such as a Phillips for their data acquisition inputs as this would allow a much higher number of cycles on each screw head without errors. de KQ2E
Very good point. The slotted screws were a big cringe for me when I saw these modules.
September 21st....Shahriar: Hi welcome to the Signal Path.This episode I have another product review for you guys. We're going to be taking a look at this alien craft on loan to me from yesterdays area 51 raid. So lets do some experiments, take it apart, and see if we can get it working.👽😂
Keep the prod reviews coming but also do share more often tutorials on the tech itself and/or actual real life examples how you use the equipment for your work as that is also interesting.
And maybe make playlists where you split out vids in reviews, theory tutorials and maybe use-case examples. Would love 2 watch number of theory tutorials here.
And as said before: ur utter cuteness can be distracting but it is a good distraction 😁😘
Holy.... Wow! They really went all out on this... thing... So its an semi oscilloscope, semi logic analyzer, multimeter, but can it brew coffee? Because, why not!
If it could brew coffee I would sell of my wife and marriage this meter.
Would love to see you review the Tektronix AFG31000 Arbitrary Function Generator - thanks for the great videos!
It is in the works.
Ok, now I know what I was suspecting. There is absolutely no reason to choose the keysight 34461a over the keythley dmm 6500.
The software and the capability of the multimeter section has left me speechless.
I don't think I've ever seen Shahriar in 360p before :) I hope we get to see 360p pixelated minecraft Pooch.
Lol 😂
Hi Shahriar, a bit of a random question. At the moment I'm building a table for the lab but I'm unsure how high and deep to make them. It seems like you're quite happy your work surfaces. Could you share their dimensions?
Eric They are U-Line packing tables. If you check their site you can find the various models and dimensions.
I always wanted to have a touring complete multimeter.
The quality of this unit amazes me... The Chinese really know their stuff when building PCBs. I wish Fluke could make a board without botch wires. I've been in the market for a new DMM ever since my old Fluke 45 finally bit the dust. Looks like I found it!
The soft power switch is probably so it can be woken up remotely over the network. Quick test, plug in Ethernet and if you get link lights you know why...
👍👍👍
6:33 May I please ask you about this isolation of digital and analog?
As I understand it, by listening to Robert Feranec's channel, is the splitting a very bad idea that introduces more problem than it solves.:-)
Dear friend, thanks for the outstanding review of DAQ6510. Actually I am facing the problem of overflow message and hence loss of measured data when I am using 6 termocouples in 6 channels. I need to monitor 6 points of temperature each 30 seconds for 100 counts, but several times i get overflow in varied channels. Some points of the graph get blank. How do I solve this and why this happens?
For the Keithley 7700 acquisition module, when the DAQ scans Channel 122 for the current measurement, is there a monetary break in the current flow for the DUT? I can't tell from the documentation if the relay provides a make-before-break connection.
how to measure current using this device, does it require any additional current probes?
An unmarked grey plastic box with a flat-head? Just like the cartridges from back in the day! Does it works on my C128?
Great review as always Shariar! One question through: Am I missing out on functionality by not using TSP, or can I do the same stuff by interfacing via. LXI/USB using custom software?
I love Keithley instruments! I use the SMU2450 and DMM7510 at work and the DMM6500 at home in combination with other types and brands of instruments. I've used the Kickstart software as a trial (and liked it), but I'm not keen on buying it. I've never used the TSP script. For measurement automation, I've over time built and refined my own software in C and MATLAB (only by small amounts in Python) depending on the application, using the NI-VISA driver for which I control the various instruments via LXI/USB/GPIB etc. I realize this might not be the case for the average user, but this approach gives me great cross-brand flexibility and other custom advantages at the cost of time spend writing software and verifying it works.
Could you do a review of the Keysight DAQ970A? Im the Technical Support Engineer for it.
You can contact Keysight and ask them to send me one. :)
I'm a bit surprised they are using standard signal relays. I would had expected high capacity precision reed relays like those made by Sanyu.
The 7703 card uses reed relays; the 7710 card uses solid state. Most other cards (7700, 7701, 7702, 7708, etc) use EM relays.
can you mirror the DMM6500 display onto a monitor by simply using a USB to HDMI adaptor ?
Unfortunately, no.
PLEASE HELP ME OUT :
My multimeter is showing L1 FAIL . What to do? I was checking connectivity, suddenly it stopped showing Resistance and Showing OVER LOAD for every resistance.
Try performing a factory default reset.
@@Thesignalpath It is fine now. I have done something and it started working again.
Thank you from India🇮🇳
Got the 6500 which is currently on offer for less than 1000€.
Unfortunately no real power button and the transformer hums when off.
Does Shariar collect those Keithleys ??
Whats the difference with this one, 6500 seems to be 800€...
@@finbenton spec seems to be same, only 6500 has only Max one 10* multiplexer card (500€).
Apps and trigger is the same afaik.
For upper hobby level seems to me best choice currently for bench meter.
If it hums when off you should be able to return for service. Not defective per se (does not affect specs), but the transformers can be updated/replaced.
@@joshbrown5138 thanks for the info. It doesn't really bother me, it's more related to the non existing real power button and the resulting power consumption.
very good sir
Anyone else think those chips on the acquisition module were arranged in that shape on purpose?
Sigh, if I had know about this two months ago I could have used this instead of a $1400 NatInst USB meter, switch boxes, and labview.
How do I test this thermocouple
Smartphone culture creeping into the measurement equipment design.
Ventsislav Simonov Smartphone *capabilities* creeping into test equipment.
@@Thesignalpath Would be sad because my iPhone cant do anything for me except display the newspaper. Certainly a nice device but I like to do everything myself over LXI. VFD 's 'nuff for me.
@@Thesignalpath I for example don't fancy touchscreen interfaces, but if they let me get job done faster and easier I'll use it. If someone invents a tool that requires using let's say Nintendo Wii motion controls and it will help with my workflow, why not? In case of this meter/DAQ, it's a tool that let us do mass measurements that typically requires some VISA setup, scripting and/or dealing with proprietary software and drivers by tapping the screen on the multimeter few times.
Aye man, but they've been put to good use and have not been added for the 'bling-bling' factor :)
Can it measure zener diode ?
Up to a certain voltage.
Shame the software is a costed (and expensive, for what it is) option. Really should be included as standard; who on earth thinks "DAS" without it being fully integrated with a PC these days? Oh well, I'm sure some bundles will appear, but still a very poor showing from Keithley, IMHO. It's like all these "digital" scopes, which OOTB can't even do basic serial decode; sorry, sir, that's a costed option..
There is a lot packed into the DAQ6510 - in many cases a user could do without PC software. Still, hard to break the habit. To get my software to do what I want it usually takes me several hours to write. If I could get a code-savvy co-op to do it for me then it would be much more affordable.
What is the point of having 1MS/s, if your multiplexer is using relays?
The device and unit is nicely engineered, but I am not impressed, especially considering the price. The extra IO board on top, this KTTI-TSP, it is pointless to put it as a separate board and option that you need to pay for. It would make much more sense to make it a standard, lowering number of parts, and lowering the total cost. Seriously, the only other IO boards, are the RS232 and GPIB options. There is enough space to fit all of it on the unit standard. And if there is not enough space, just use RS232 and TSP, and provide GPIB via small external dongle. It is just milking customers. These IO boards, have almost no engineering effort in designing them, and cost to make them, yet cost about 300-400$. LOL.
Another week point, just look at the voltage reference placement and area around it. It is messy, I see no isolation of the reference, or taking care of leakage.
Similarly, the front/back terminal switching, I do find weird in the unit like this. There are no BACK terminals on this unit per se. It should be controlled by relay, not a manual switch.
It is also a bit unfortunate the fuse is buried deep inside the unit, and not available on front panel instead.
On the acquisition board, you can see the connector that connects to the connector in the unit itself. The problem is, it is not secured to the PCB. There is even place to put screws, but I don't see any screws on it. So, it is likely the connector or solder will break off, as it will carry all the mechanical stress of plugging and unplugging the board.
6 temperature sensors for cold junction compensation, and good thermal coupling is a nice touch, but that it to be expected, otherwise the thermocouple measurements wouldn't be reliable or accurate, and it will be pointless to use high accuracy measurements. It is not even nice touch, it is a necessity, and is done in every good thermocouple based system.
The most impressive parts, are the NEC/TOKIN relays, claiming 100 million actuations with no load (or very slow load, like thermocouples). That is actually magic. Similar ones are by KEMET. Possibly the same relays. I am not sure where you get your numbers for reliability. As I did find 1 million actuations at load (not full tho), not 100 thousends. At for a LATCHING type 10 million actuations with no load, not 100 million actuations.
Ultimately the price is still quite competitive, but I wish Keithley optimized the cost a bit more, as well provided 4.5-digit multimeter with same similar plugin board, even if this allows me to reduce cost a bit. I often simply need 20 thermal / pressure sensors, but I don't need fricking 0.01% accuracy.
I understand your worries about voltage reference placement, but does it affect specs of the instrument? :)
@@shana_dmr obviously it doesn't. I trust the spec. It is just weird, compared to other Keithly instruments :)
"What is the point of having 1MS/s, if your multiplexer is using relays?" I don't understand the question. No one is suggesting to switch the relays at 1MHz. You can sample ANY channel at 1MS/s. Clearly there are huge advantages to this.
@@Thesignalpath The I/O card 7700 is called 20 channel multiplexer. One could hear it switch as in connect ch1, measure ch1, disconnect ch1, connect ch2, measure ch2, ... in the first test. Measurement of 40 channels, 1ch/s would lag the measurement 40 seconds.
It does this to provide galvanic isolation between all channels. Clever as it does not require dedicated analog sensor- and separation hardware.
But i rather have an dedicated thermocouple circuit with proper thermocouple contacts read at (all most) once.
@@isojed - The switching across/between channels can be tuned to your liking. While you can program for 1 chan/s, this is quite slow in comparison to what the 7700 card is capable of. In fact, you will likely find (as I have) that you can acquire thermocouple measurements from all 20 available channels in < 1 s. (This gets faster when you use the reed or solid-state relay multiplexers.) You can view the measurements as the happen via the front panel, the scan progress swipe, and up to 20 channels on the graph.
Hmm don't like how the branches in the flowchart go over to the top of each other. I tend to just use SCPI for stuff like this anyway so meh...
Great review as usually, but the specs of the instrument are not that impressive. Digitizing 1MS/s current measurement falls to 7-12bits. Great for collecting data of complex setups though.
f### gona order one then
why does he never zoom into the chips, or quote the part numbers... Dave does this well. It seems he is over careful with the vendors.
Thats a multimeter on steroids....
.
👍👍