My issue isn't how impactful Support ults are, it's how frequently you can get them. Triple support means they're cannibalising one anothers' healing, so they're all getting their ults at a slower rate, but the cost to ult isn't high enough for that to be an issue. Cannibalising each others' ult generation by competing for heals should be a legitimate downside.
The thing is : As Mantis, I'm not really a healer, I'm a DPS/Support hybrid, and if we already have a Luna and a Cloak and Dagger, I wont have to heal much and I'll instead give damage boost to msyelf, and also, as usual, go for headshots on the enemy to deal damage and get picks. So as long as the third support is Mantis that can easily just focus on dealing damage and damage amp, you don't have this issue.
@@tanez778 who said focusing on damage? Why is every little rivals goblin incapable of reading a full sentence without twisted the words of the original comment
@@olofacosta3192 I guess it's the cool factor. The only benefit over other ults is that it's like an ambush, pretty much like a doctor strange teleport. He even yells to let you know where they are.
@ That's my main issue with Adam honestly. What's better than a revive is not letting your team die in the first place. Also his soul bound ability kinda just team griefs because dpses in this game are just so strong.
@@addamriley5452rockets ult should make the team strong enough to kill someone like Luna in her ult, or put a hit point amount that caps the amount a Luna can heal her team, while ulting.
Waiting for Luna Snow to finish her ultimate is so boring. It feels like your team fight goes into intermission as you sit around and wait for it to end.
Invisible Woman should just give everyone in her zone Shields. Fits better Lore-wise and serves the same purpose of giving her Team “HP” to use in the fight. Cloak and Dagger should have a new Ult altogether, Lore-wise it doesn’t make sense and getting rid of it removes a Sustain issue and gives the Devs another crack at getting it right.
I like the invis woman idea. I was gonna say change mantis ult to something like kiriko’s from ow. Regardless, yeah the issue is there are too many support ults that make everyone invincible
I was really hoping invis woman would instead of healing her primary fire added shields to a target health bar but the shields wouldn't apply past the targets base health kinda like how venoms shields reduce as he gets healed up. I think it would be an interesting new spin on a supp that supps without having to heal and that way any potential anti heal they added wouldn't be super giga busted because you still have a support that could support through the anti heal.
I think invisible woman's ult need to be an actual massive barrier. It fits the character and would it make it an actual unique ult. Ofcourse it would still heal, but only om the same pace her regular barrier heals, in other words, ults like punisher and Iron man would be countered, but ults like psylocke and spiderman could shut it down.
Make their whole kit consistant. If dagger can't damage, don't make her daggers and ult damage, if cloak can't heal don't make his ult heal. Making it do both is just too much.
@@ohmanilovemyguitarHell, half a squishie's healthpool/sec isnt bad either. It means you could definitely hard focus specific targets and get them out of the fight, other than being another flavor of "ult that makes you unkillable" that nearly every other meta support has.
The heals is just so it's not useless compared to others, because just making the inside invisible doesn't do enough to assist your team agaisnt most situations. Melee would just barely be affected at all and you can still hit stuff inside from the outside pretty easily without seeing because the enemy team is likely stacked in there.
@@xxcridonxx7614 Yeah but you can fight those, easily. Mantis can get cc'd and get eaten by jeff in her ult, and invis they have to fight within the barrier for the heals, so any ult that clears that area will stop it, like jeff, iron man, moonkinght, squirrel girl ult can also kill through with enough damage along side it, hulk ult can knock people out and clap them at range when they are knocked out, and wolverine can take people out of it with his ult, and so on.
@ moon knight and mag are really the only counter for the ult. However in my gm lobbies, mag is played a lot rn and he can just buble sue storm or mantis.
Maybe this is a hot take, but I do not want an anti heal. That will just result in problems later down the line. Nerfing the duration is the best solution and makes supp ults have more skill as timing it wrong could lose your team the game. Another solution would be to add counterplay what if cloak ult was faster to cast but she could be stunned out of it or what if stunning Luna temporarily stopped the ults effects.
I think it's just best that having divers deal with healers is just the best choice instead of having anti heals. I'm sure they'll implement more strategists that focuses on buffs more than healing too since rocket exists with his ult, maybe we'll see damage reduction as well.
What I want is to give the ults better powers outside of the healing, like cloaks giving a speed boost for less healing. Invisible womans is almost there because the invisible is very fun and powerful, but they just need to not have it heal forever, like give it a burst heal when cast and that's it. Mantis could have an interaction with her resource, make it recharge on every body shot so to heal she needs to be actively involved in the fight. Luna's just sucks, make it 5 seconds or something, idk what I'd do with it being 12 secs.
I think the solution is 3 fold: one, decrease duration, two, decrease rate of healing so that things are actually killable, three, increase energy required for ult charge.
That’s where the problem of “oh the games good because everyone’s op”. Like sure, but when you have issues that need to be fixed, everything comes tumbling down.
@@mene6465 this was how ow was like in the beginning. So many characters were op like Mcree, Genji, widow, Roadhog. Now they're all a shadow of themselves with the series of nerfs after nerfs years down the line. I see the same fate with marvel rivals
@@mene6465not everything needs to be inherently solved it’s a matter of want vs what the game actually is in ratio. Storm ult should do that, she is the goddess of wind, if she presses her ult you die, a support ult is meant to counter that simple. It’s not the matter of toning down dps ult’s, it’s the matter of rate-usage, supports gets their Ults to consistently, sometimes you’re team should get wiped, it’s a matter of interest, I’m almost eternity and I want things to be somewhat more inline for what I want, but at the same time you’re putting your vision of the game over what the game is actually presenting you. Yes everything is op, and it should stay that way, Ults should be impactful, you are a superhero. But the consistency rate of support ults out do the other roles by a large margin, that’s why so many people are clambering to play sup. The game is inherently designed to be just casual fun, if they lean back it too much it’ll lose its identity it’s not overwatch as a former gm player for years nor should we have the same idea’s of what’s acceptable or not acceptable. Let the game fill out with characters and new team ups in the couple seasons to see what the game is, is it more inline to what overwatch was or is it more inline with a moba or are the characters whacky and overpowered and from the leaks it looks like overpowered is the idea, I don’t think necessarily nothing dying for x amount of time is fun, and shouldn’t he changed, it should, it’s a easy fix change the rate of cooldown. But that’s not what I’m asking, I’m asking the question why, I.e why do you think this is the path for the game too choose, and why is x not dying in y amount of time a problem? Is it because it’s not like overwatch? Yeah you’re right it’s not? Not trying to get too deep here, but I feel like people need to let the game be itself, yes it should absolutely fix things that need to be changed like this, but it’s a matter of understanding why it needs to be fixed, and also understanding not everything needs to be “fixed” as again it’s not like the other games, it has different nuances and depth to it that makes certain things needed for the flow of gameplay. Whole yap, wasn’t getting on you or wasn’t even a negative thing. Just was more opposed to the person asking about the storm ult.
I've found that our skill level and understanding of the game isnt there yet. Storm ult in a lot of way is very easy to dodge. The problem is a lot of people haven't played her and have no idea how her ult works. All you have to do is move to higher ground or so far nack she couldn't make it to her team if she tried, even spreading out. This goes for a lot of dps ults Just getting out of the way is the hardest part for people.
I think most of these ults are fine in a vacuum. The problem is the frquency and duration. Obviously a anti heal would be great to help with this but cloak and dagger/luna ult should not exist in their current form. It just stops people from playing the game while they are active and good support players can have them every minute. These type of ults can exist and work in hero shooters like Zens trans or Lucios beat but the fact that every character has a different version of the same ult is honestly super disappointing
Luna Snow is the biggest problem. Ult needs to be shortened and take longer to build. The cleave healing certainly doesn't help. Sue needs her ult healing nerfed. Cloak might need to have her ult cost more too, if only because she can build it faster than her opponents can build the ults they need to counter it. I think anti-heal isn't a good idea. If they do add something like that, I'd like to see them do it in a way that doesn't completely invalidate most of the supports.
@@orangejuice3235 Sue's ult hps is only at 165 hps...I would've been more happy if the ult is 70% dr with 0 heals so she would be the full utility ult. CnD main issue rn is her ult being stackable with 4 dashes exist, so she should not be able to stack her dashes. Luna Snow is just entirely an issue where they overcompensate her with the hps and duration due to her "not being able to do anything." Of 4 current defensive ult, Only Mantis and IW can be CC so you can focus fire them easily or Jeff can eat them up easily with their team while CnD and Luna Snow is just not it.
Adam Warlock is close to the perfectly balanced strategist, he just needs a bit of mobility to encourage him to be more aggressive. His heals are powerful but have a slow cooldown, his shift ability can save your team’s life but has a long cooldown, he deals pretty good damage but it’s hard to hit enough of his shots. I have similar feelings about Loki, love playing him. But the constant cloak and dagger ults, and literally staring at luna snow’s ult unless a few certain circumstances are met to counter it, is insane. I am a strategist main btw.
zenyatta had an interesting change in his 2024 april fools patch where the longer he charged up his secondary fire he would float higher. This would be a cool mobility idea for adam but just put it on a cooldown instead of costing ammo.
Yeah I agree, I think Adam is great to play and I like what his ult does. His ult isn't just a revive, it also enables your team to play really agressive with no fear of dying. I had scenarios where I played Captain America and once I saw Adam ulting I just kep harassing their backline and even when I got killed it didn't matter thanks to Adam's ult. So I think if we even turn into a dive meta Adam will be a key factor in that.
Pretty sure they buffed them cause luna and mantis were seen as being better along with c&d players complaining about braindead teammates borderline avoiding the ult
I think it just needs a time reduction and once anti-heal gets introduced, let’s see how that works. Mantis ult isn’t that annoying on its own, neither is sue storms really. I just think C and D makes it look even worse because theirs in particular is so strong right now
I think the 4th dash is fine, but the duration needs to go down, and ult charge for all supports needs to be reduced. As a DPS its hard to find openings where my ult can actually get value. Everyone kept saying Psylocke ult was busted...and it was when people didn't know how to avoid it. Now that everyone knows to scatter you hear Japanese screaming (like Genji) it just feels better to solo ult people cuz trying to get any more than 2 people and "DISSAPEAR"/"I'M PUTTING ON A SHOW"/"WE ARE UNDEFEATABLE"... Its feels horrible.
I want them to nerf support ults as a DPS main but I know if they nerf support ults so hard its gonna be bad eventually because this games dps ult are as crazy as support ults. Oh you dont have support ult? BERSERKER RAGE team wipe, again you dont have a support ult? FEEL THE WRATH OF THE GODDESS team wipe, LEGENDARY! team wipe. I know Im just a diamond player and maybe dont know much how to counter those but I wonder how they gonna balance the support ults without making every dps ult a guaranteed fight winner.
This. PRoblem is much deeper. If you want to nerf healing ults. Then nerf overall damage. Then you can have utility ultimates that do different thing without being bad. Right now any support ULT that does not heal is not worth it by default. Adam and Rocket considered as the worst supports to have because of their ults.
the support ults are fine as counters, but the issue is they last too long. Storms ult is like 6 seconds, cloaks is like 18. Thats ridiculous. No support ult should last more than 8 seconds, its just boring as hell. If you pop storm ult and they cloak and no one else has an ult, you just lose every time. Ive seen streamers that just dont pop their DPS ults because they know as soon as they do they'll just lose the fight. And supports get ults faster than the DPS do as well
you can quickly focus a hela in ult and kill her, you can very easily kill a starlord in ult and you can very easily predict when a wolverine is going to ult The point is that when most of these characters ults there is something the vast majority of characters can do to counter it, when a support ult like luna snow's ult is used most characters do not have any way to counter it
@@ni9274When your team is focusing down a Hela, do you know what your team is not doing? Noticing the enemy team that now has free reign to bombard you bec you're all diverting your attention to the 1000 hp sky target. Just throw an Invisible Woman shield, or a Magneto shield on the Star Lord and he has enough invulnerability time to kill at least one squishy character before it ends. You're saying these things like this isn't a team game.
I think a great way to rebalance Black Widow would be to introduce anti-heal to her kit. Could be as easy as giving it to her extremely underwhelming plasma burst ult, and would make sense for her lore as a spy that sabotages/disrupts enemies' plans. Plus would make it so that whatever new character releases with anti-heal isn't an insta lock
@@ryanguerrero2327 No she wouldn't bruh. her having anti heal on ULTIMATE wouldn't make everyone go "oh my god she's the best on the roster, we need to ban HER!" when there's literally better and more strategic heros to ban.
Anti-heal for Plasma Burst is actually a great idea. If we can have someone else with an anti-heal grenade too. I rather see NetEase balance by adding more busted stuff than removing things.
I really feel like it should have been that instead of "another sniper". Widow is already underwhelming but I'm just afraid the devs are just gonna give her a oneshot and then we're back with forced Widow mirrors like we have in Overwatch.
@@ohnobees8033 people are starting to figure out how to play her, that she's best at far midrange. Aiming on her feels a little weird, but if youre on PC its probably not as much an issue
It's so depressing as a Duelist to get into position to try and make a play and just hear "US AGAINST THE WORLD" or "IT'S TIME TO PUT ON A SHOW". I just sigh, move back to a different position and wait for it to be over, only to hear "YOUR POWERS ARE MINE" and it happens all over again, and unless I'm Iron Man there's literally nothing I can do about it. The entire game just gets put into pause for a full minute, every other minute.
Equally depressing as a strategist to get into position start healing your team only to just hear: "THE MOON HAUNTS YOU!" "MAXIMUM PULSE" "PURE CHAOS" "FEAR THE WRATH OF THE GODDESS!". Then you just sigh and run back because your whole team was deleted. This is just DPSers whining because other people get to play the game for a change.
@@ericmartin2740 you did not include wanda ult lol its so easy to counter, moonknight I understand but its literally just broken (not op i mean not working properly) Iron man ult is again very easy to deal with, and storm ult can be healed through or just dashed out of there is counter play. Support ults have little to no counter play and the ones available outside of moonknight can actually be hard to do. Supports are by far the most influential role rn and dictate who wins or loses. Tanks do as much dmg if not more than DPS and are impossible to kill since healing is so strong. DPS on the other hand can be 1v1'd easily by tanks and some supports. Their ults have little value since support ults are easier and faster to charge up. I dont think dps should be able to 1v1 everything but DPS just kinda sucks rn
It is so depressing as a support to do everything I can to keep the frontrine alive, just to hear "Chō no mai o KURAEEE" or "LEEEEGEEENDARYYY" ...so I'm just gonna sigh and go back to spawn. And now you want to deprive me of the only way a suppot can counter it?
@@sWejk If you're doing "everything" you can to keep the frontline alive, you already have your ult long before any Duelist does. Consistant teamwide invulnerability ults are cancer.
That's what's crazy to me. The rest of their game design is "let's add a new spin to this that solves a lot of problems and makes for dynamic gameplay" and then they give all the "strategists" not just heal ults BUT THEY MAKE THE CHARACTERS INVINCIBLE. If it was just healing then it woudn't be a huge issue to counter, but out healing everything except one shots, is crazy.
I mean OW solved this. Even with big team ults like Lucio's you can still kill a target with focus, Zen in general isn't the biggest healer outside of his ult so it balanced out, and Mercy's just doesn't heal enough to be close to something like Luna's, and on top of that you can still kill the Mercy.
There are so many DPS ults and other things that can be stopped with so many ways or heavily mitigated. I think Strategists shouldn't be immune to CC during their ults, let them suffer the same fate as us if they don't place their ults smart.
That's so true. Everyone is immune to cc so they just casually drop it in the middle of the map without counter. If healer play that game, Let me use my Peni ult uncontested as I drop mines on those pesky healers back line.
i mostly play tank/support and i agree with this. most of the support ults are way too low risk for how rewarding they are. its super boring as a support as well.
In my opinion we should just scale up a lot of other heros to be to this level. I like the fact that everyone is unkillable in support ults. It feels lore accurate. However, not oneshotting people as black widow, ults like Mr. Fantastic, Captain America, Thor, Peni, Rocket Etc; should be brought to the level as the rest of the roster. Adding things like antiheal or more damage to some of these sub-par characters ults/abilities would help resolve this issue and make triple support not as viable. For instance, if rockets ult gave more damage it would make killing through cloak ult much more effective, adding anti heal to Peni's webs would allow her ult to spread anti heal everywhere.
@tigerfalco Exactly. I've been ended from my ult by back to back Luna freeze, Mantis no aim sleep, and Hulk stun not of misplay but the nature of Peni ult. While the same Luna can pop off her ult and rush to objective like a Noob. Well, only if she is not CC immune and immortal while doing it.
Currently GM1 and I couldn't agree more, I've probably ran into triple support in 80% of my games. I hope they either nerf defensive ults or add in an anti heal ability
I’m gm2 and I’ve started running magneto or iron man and killing cloak ult problem is her cooldown is so fast I can only get rid of every other one. He said it in the video but groot and moon knight can work as well
Triple support is annoying because there is a lack of dps ults that actually counter their immortality ults. We have iron man, moon knight, scarlet witch and namor + groot ult combo to stop them. Scarlet witch ult is too hard to get off w/o strange portal and namor needs a good groot ult so we basically have 2 dps ults that answer them and with so many options its very unlikely that you will have both or 1 of them on your team at all times to counter. This is what makes triple support so annoying there is just a lack of ult counter play that duelists have. 5/8 strategists have immortal ults while 4/19(realistically 2/19) duelists have ways to stop it. They either need to reduce the amount of healing the ults give by like a percentage so there is a window for characters like storm, psylocke, punisher, and spider man can kill strategists using their ult if some else is shooting at the strategists also. Add like a 5% healing reduction which allows strategist to be killed in ult on some duelists ults like widow, magik, iron fist, squirrel girl, panther.
Don't forget magneto ult he can kill every support with his ult if you charge it up fully. Cloak is the easiest to hit with it while luna and mantis are the two that need some charge from the enemy to kill them with one tap. Support ults definitely need to be nerfed or at least have the healing nerfed so you can at least try and kill the healer without having to save your ult especially because people like magneto don't charge as fast as supports
Believe it or not one single support can someone alive from a spider man ult cause they have so much sustain same can be said for storm but that one is a little more harder to keep someone alive.
i mostly play tank/support in comp and i couldn't agree more. i legitimately feel bad that i can just say no to most dps ults with mine and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
You basically argue why making ults the only counter sucks, just change the support ults and you won't have to worry. Why are you making it complicated?
@@scotttimbrell8632except they do. If you're not playing near your *_ulting Luna while they are ulting_* you're probably WAY outta position. 12 sec Luna + 12 sec Loki + 12 sec C&D... I'll even do the math for you: thats 36 seconds, slightly over half a minute of nobody dying.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 Great, so what are you doing for the rest of the time that isn't 36 seconds? Do you and your team also stagger your DPS/tank Ults? Like in a vacuum it sounds like a lot until you realise that the game doesn't work that way.
Ow2 I was a support main because I felt their general play styles were more unique and interactive however in rivals I’m slowly starting to hate playing support because of how 1 dimensional it really is. You just healbot and farm ult every single game and if you try playing off meta supports with no OP defensive ults, you get punished for it and your whole team explodes. I really hope they address this issue soon and make the role healthy and fun to play
@@rfewer i actually relate to this sm. i was t500 supp on ow and moving to rivals i obviously mained support at the start but once i hit like diamond it js got so boring playing the same few supps and feeling like the only real impact they have is their ults. so i started playing a lot of dps and am now gm lol. supports in rivals just need more diverse kits and hopefully we’ll see that in the future
I just wish that they would stop with healing defensive ult. I want them to rework Mantis to be more like Lucio's ult and IW to be a huge damage reduction buff instead of heals while also nerfing Luna and CnD ult charge gain, ult duration and their hps on the ult.
i think 2 things need to happen: 1) Ults in general, not just supports, are too fast. I shouldnt be able to pop an ult in the first minute of a game unless i somehow got an Ace myself. 2) Healing ults need to change. Theres more ways to give defensive boosts w/o just heal aoe. Four of them are mad heals, with the least oppressive of the four still being almost immortal-time (sue's is the weakest, but that by no mean says its actually weak in itself). Why Sue doesnt just shield everyone for 800-1000hp instantly and a short invis is beyond me. I dont know what would be lore accurate for CnD since i really dont know anything about that character, Mantis is probably fine and Luna is too long. Big one to me is frequency. Multiple CnD ults in the same fight...just..what?
@ "lore accurate" would be more meaning something the character would actually do normally, not how strong they are. For instance it makes no sense that hulk has a projectile stun. I don't know where they got that from, he should have a ground slam ability that slows or knocks back. That comment has nothing to do with how strong said abilities are. Which is what most people get hung up on when they talk "lore accurate"
The issue with this is how fast (again) C&D farms ult. Magneto takes at minimum 1.5x or 2x as long to farm his ult and... you can see where the problem is
@@monkkindNot only that but if enemy has magneto, he can protect his C&D with a shield and enemy magneto can't outplay that as he need to charge his ult a bit but a "kill range" can be covered with a shield. So two magneto players trying to kill C&D and both trying to protect theirs which is a bit boring too
and C&D is the easiest character to ult with magneto. Luna and mantis pop ult and start zooming around so even if you miss by an inch they only take half damage by your ult and there are other variables like shields and all
Literally both c+d and Luna are counterable by magneto. This is a lot of complaining for heroes that have counters, honestly just seems like people should play counters more
@ it really depends on many factors. You can't say that magneto in every match wins against Luna and C&D ultimates. First of all, they both get it faster then magneto. Also, they can be covered by their teammates & shields. Also, punisher instantly overloads and destroys magneto ultimate as well. Random bridge or other cover doesn't let Magneto land his ultimate. Also Luna can avoid Magneto ultimate by moving, C&D has harder time to deal with it.
@@rollerskdudethis is the same mentality that caused Brig to exist in overwatch. "We can't nerf tracer she's our perfect baby girl, let's just make a character that makes everyone else worthless". Nah, the ults are too strong and need sledgehammer nerfs, that's it.
If healer ults are nerfed, braindead dps ults like storm/star lord would need to be nerfed as well. Substantially increasing the charge time for ults across the board is probably the best solution.
It’s fine for them to counter dps ults and I want to keep it that way the problem is the frequency and the duration of the ults so I don’t think dps ults really need to get nerfed since they would still get countered by a well timed support ult even if they nerf the duration
Sadly people (mostly ex OW players) will find anything to complain, the game is very fun to play, but yeah let's try to ruin this game complaining about everything like OW
"cloak and dagger can tank moon knight ult if you stack your dashes enough so it doesn't really matter" yeah let me just casually quad stack cloak ult inside of the moon knight ult
Bogur was unfortunately wrong here. MK ult deals 350dps over 3 seconds. CD ult strips heal 220hps each, so you only need 2 to survive. The silly part is that if CD ults in response to the MK ult, the first strip will keep their team alive long enough to get the second off. By the end the MK ult is over and CD gets to push two more strips.
If youre playing against a 2-1-3 comp, always go moonknight. You WILL get your ult faster than the enemy supports and it WILL kill enough people to win you the fight.
Why would enemy supports be sniping moon knight? Moon Knight is going to be behind his strange farming ult off your tanks lmao. Mantis, Cloak, Luna especially aren't doing enough damage at long range to kill Moon Knight unless he's braindead.
@@DerfyRedI mean there’s counters im assuming people just aren’t playing them no bans. What about storm with her damage boost with rocket and a punisher or Bucky + rockets ult (which is a support ult that doesnt make ppl unkillable lol but ppl continue to hate on him he just needs specific team comps.) namor ult centered on Luna ult plus rocket ult can also kill through a Luna ult.
@@Finn-wc8nq great, you wasted storm e rocket ult punisher or Namor ult and got 1 kill to stop an ult that charges again before either of the ults you used. That’s all assuming Luna is dumb enough to stand in Namor ult or run right at the ulting punisher. C&D literally won’t die to punisher no matter the damage amp, so you didn’t even solve that. Even so, you failed to mention the best counter Magneto ult. Which, to your credit, does shut down all healer ults. However, that’s just one ult. In triple support they have 2 more. You just used your only counter, and you still have to deal with 2 more immortality ults. And now, if you ever use mag ult to counter punisher or star lord or hella, you get to deal with all 3 support ults. This isn’t a solution.
This is a big problem, anyone arguing otherwise is in denial. But I don’t actually think how fast supports get ult or how long they last is the problem. They heal too much. These ults makes people unkillable unless you have one shots. I think a good way to benchmark how much they should heal is that they should be just enough to out heal through DPS ults like star lord, storm and spiderman giving the enemy the ability to hard coordinate to kill through ults while remaining impactful. Make cloak and dagger ult unstackable and reduce their healing to match DPS ult prowess.
I agree with everything except CnD. Let the ult stack with diminishing returns, so stacking is still useful, but its nowhere near as crazy as right now.
@@107frenchy That's redundant. The base damage and healing is fine and then stacking it is when it gets crazy. It's cheesy and I assumed it wouldn't stack when I first played because that's just jank.
Part of me feels like Luna Snows ult lasts as long as it does because they want the full dance to be done, but if thats the case then what they could do is make it so you have 6 second of healing for ult, and 6 seconds of damage boosting on ult, and you can switch between them, but when you run out of damage, you go healing and vice versa. That way the ult last just as long, and you are forced to be more proactive with it, and they don't have to nerf the healing amount or cost
The best thing they can do is SLIGHTLY bring down healing on ults and duration. Like, level out most of the support ults that just intrinsically heal a shit ton, so that it requires some form of strategic timing and decision making to pull the ult trigger. Supports ults are the only down time supports get in game lol. Every team fight I feel like I’m playing out of my mind and transcending levels when both teams are on equal footing.
1. Combos with your team make facing 2-3 strategists a breeze. 2. Cloak and Luna ults have counters. Examples are namor and moon knight with their ult. And maybe finish them with a strange or mantis ult for support. I get its a little frustrating facing constant healing, but this gives us ways to work around it.
Yes and no. We shouldn't have to play those characters just to play a match at all. I'm not saying you said that, I'm just saying the game should not force it to come to that. I'm also not a big proponent of Role Queing. So it can get annoying facing 3 supports, especially when they all just heal each other to stay alive. And again, the ults do too much. Yes, the ones that one shot through them work...but that isn't a proper solution. "Play these characters or die". There needs to be some level of rework to healing and support as a whole.
@@xXxMasterDuelistxXxIt's a game where characters and team comps are meant to counter others. You don't get to just one trick, then whine to the devs.
Honestly the ultimates in Marvel Rivals are probably its biggest failing. Most of them are not particularly interesting, and are just cosmetic changes to "damage bomb" or "team lives forever." And even then the cosmetics aren't even that different; Damage Bomb is mostly "Guy in the sky throws a truck at you" and the Team Lives Forever is "This chick has an aura." Groot, Strange, Rocket, and to some extent Squirrel Girl and Widow are really the only "interesting" ultimates; and those last two mostly because they're janky damage bombs that can be used in different ways than just "i kill your team with my Q button"
Psylocke, Starlord, Punisher, Mr. Fantastic, Jeff (debatable), Adam Warlock, Peni, Captain America (kind of in the camp of "this chuck has an aura"), Magik, Hawkeye, Hela, Hulk, Venom, Wolverine, Iron Fist, and to certain extent Bucky. Are all ults that are (for some) slightly varied in their approaches (and for others) completely different to the two categories you mentioned. Jeff is kind of a damage bomb, if you can find a ledge. Psylocke can really only kill a single person and can be killed out of it since it doesn't do all the damage at once. Starlord and Punisher, you just have to not be in their sight line to avoid it, and they take awhile to start up so if you are paying attention and are properly positioned then you can avoid them (and they both can be killed out of it). Mr. Fantastic is actually one of the worst ults in the game, but it is very funny to bounce around (can be killed out of it). Adam's is a party rez. Peni's is just a further extension of her regular abilities (can be killed out of it). Captain America is a last longer ult but doesn't guarantee safety. Magik is just a damage buff, but can easily be killed out of it. Hawkeye's ult is functionally a damage bomb ult because he is just a powerful character to begin with, but it takes skill to aim and doesn't guarantee kills (also can be killed out of it). Hela's ult doesn't kill instantly but you can't really kill her out of it, as she as so much hp when in it, but functionally can be considered a damage bomb. Hulk increases his damage and health, decreases his cd and gives the ability to throw someone around like a towel. Venom's gives him more survivability but in no way is an instant kill. Wolverine's is really only a damage bomb if you charge up enough rage. Iron Fist is just his regular stuff but increased (can be killed out of it). Finally, Bucky's ult doesn't kill anyone instantly but can snowball into a damage bomb very quickly depending on the skill of the user (can be killed in between reusing ults). "interesting" ults is a very subjective thing, but seeing as you put Rocket's as an "interesting" ult, many of them seem to fit into that category. Not to mention many of them can be cc'd out of it briefly. edit: added some more context for punisher and starlord ults
@@Shrimp4Gura at least you have to aim it, you have to be in a good position and there is a lot of risk Something like storm ults doesn't require good positioning, aim and doesn't come with any risk
Support in general is a little boring in this game, because heal botting is the most efficient way to win. DPS is so much more fun to play and its basically all I play in rivals, and thats coming from a support main from ow.
Supporting in rivals is a blast and in diamond + people are fighting for the role. I constantly have 3 people in my lobbies who want to heal. Also you can do good damage on a lot of different supports. Mantis is basically a dps with heals overtime.Jeff can flank and carry like the top Jeff’s do. Luna can head shot and I get kills with her all game. Loki with 3 clones can kill squishies In a few seconds and sue who constantly does damage and can make big plays with her pull. Cloak can 1v3 in his ult. But with saying all that, the healing ults are too broken but I can’t I agree that supports aren’t fun or “efficient”.
@@supermarkethobo9567Supports do a lot of damage in Rivals, it just depends on the comp you're running. In triple support comps 2 of the supports can definitely pump out a lot of damage, mantis,cloak,Jeff all can do 20k damage a game depending on the map
I guess they need to: Crank down the duration a bit Crank down the healing a bit Crank up the ult cost by like 1.5x I expect they will do only one of those three things next patch.
the problem is if they make support feel unfun ppl will just stop playing support. we need more supports before nerfing them or to change/balance parts of their kits all together
@@jh44rellI really doubt you'd see that many people stop playing a character over a few seconds getting cut off one of the strongest ults in the game. Luna honestly just needs 2 seconds off the timer, no need to nerf heals.
I find it funny how its only the tourists who are fine with this type of meta and only the people that actually want to stay and keep playing game are complaining about it
True they just can’t stand doing it over and over again so they kinda got bored but for us who are playing 2h a week find it funny cause that’s what every ultimate should look like
@@Noone-iw7es no way it is fun for anyone waiting for 50 secs for sup ults to end so u can actually start playing a game (probably u have 20-30 sec window before cloak builds her ult again and cycle continues)
I hope this is sarcastic cause this comment reads redarded as hell otherwise. "it's funny, the people that played the game and then quit don't mind the meta" yeah they don't play the game anymore so they don't care.
@@measlesplease1266 what I'm talking about is people who don't want the meta to change to keep it as bad as it is because they now they will just leave and the ones that stay will still have to deal with the horrible meta
Overwatch fixed these types of comps (dive, goats, double shield) by adding something that made them unplayable (brig, role que, 5v5). This did change the meta but just made more problems for the game and doesn't address the core issue, just pushes it out of the way. I really hope that Netease takes the time to understand how to fix this without a bandaid solution like Overwatch.
I feel like CnD ult feels long because there are practically 2 timers on that ult. One is the time it gets to put those four lines down and then there is 8 seconds (I believe) of all lines being active. Instead of making a semi dps strategist like Adam Warlock they made another Luna/Mantis by mistake
(13:56)Match starts at 4 minutes, they start building ult at 3:38 starting at 8% charge. At 3:19 the ult is complete, this means that cloak and dagger got their ult in 19 seconds after being in combat. That is insane.
It’s a skill issue they are not flexible enough to figure out what beats 3sup and above diamond it’s only like 2-300 ppl and less per rank so they are playing the same one tricks over and over again the innovation is in the lower ranks I seen a powered up hulk (by rocket) kill cd while she was in her ult TWICE I’ve seen a powered up Bucky kill luna ult with the grab uppercut head shot like these ults can die but streamers only play the “meta” they have created where is groot where is rocket where is iron man or scarlet witch who can kill through all 3 ults stacked on top of each others lol
@@Jaguar-Hamm moonknights ult is annoying because most characters in the game can either super easily escape it or have absolutely no chance of getting away unless they are on the edge
Moonknight ult is stupid since it goes before the audio cue so if you are close to the center and not a tank you have no chances to even use abilities to dodge
Luna, Cloack, Invis ult: press Q to make your team invincible Adam: -Wait for your teammates to die -Ult in time before they respawn -Find a safe enough place so that you don't get cancelled or get your team in a vulnerable position -be close enough to your team corpses -have heal to back up their whimsy 100hp res -track Bucky's ultimate to not get clip farmed
I think a alternative would be to crank the energy costs of Al lot of these ults to 4000-5000. That way it becomes more of a strategic resource that can't be thrown out every minute.
That would nerf 2/2/2 even more as the 2 DPS would obliterate teams in a much easier manner with only 2 supports that would get their charges at a slower rate than even DPS (currently DPS are overall around 3750).
@ fair point, although I think most supports could use a increase to their ult energy cost. You should not be able to cycle immortality the way you currently can
Yeah you nailed it, support ult uptimes are too high and the character abilities need to be more unique. I enjoyed the overhead game perspective you showed while you talked. Much easier to see exactly what you were talking about.
Jeff can't solve it cuz he can't eat them during ult and he dies instantly in dia+. If they remove cc Immunity on them it might actually solve it. Same treatment as Iron Man and Scarlet Witch.
This is where flanking and forcing support ult comes into play. With characters like psylocke and venom/spidey it seems like they didnt intend on the game loop to be a pure battle of sustain.
Luna + Loki + C&D is 36 sec of continuous ultimates. If you use C&D first, odds are you will almost have ult again by the time your supports are done. rotation.
Okay but that one time someone did a 6 Vanguard vs 6 Duelist vs 6 Strategist the Duelists won, so clearly they're the broken ones and we gotta nerf all their damage
tbf most of the people that played in that were dps mains so i think its safe to say the results are inconclusive at best. (i know your joking im just putting this out there)
Triple support is not good this is literally a community problem 2-2-2 has the highest win rate and nothing else is >50%. If you play triple support into triple support you’re part of the problem. Just play characters that can kill through it.
So they can just pick broken characters while i have to coordinate with my team to setup 2 ults at once and execute it with no errors just so the opponents can use their ults again next fight. Like the gold opinion is shining through this one. 40% of high elo games are gonna be tripple support soon if no nerf happens. 3 support is not the whole problem tho, 80% of the problem is infinite value for doing so little and how easy it is to play support and farm ults, its an individual support issue not the 2 1 3 comp.
Literally yesterday we went groot moon Bucky iron man into a GOOD 3 support but groot ult plus any of those ults = death to squishies and that’s all we did haha
@@R1L1. bro this is not an opinion it’s facts you can look at the statistics yourself 2-2-2 has the highest win rate in every elo. The problem with triple support is that it has no win condition except for stalling out fights. Also no you don’t HAVE to set up a combo. There’s characters that can kill through support ults by themselves like Ironman doctor strange and moon knight
@@RickyCigarillo except the roles are balanced. Just because the community THINKS something is good doesn’t mean it actually is. If they nerf supports when they’re not actually broken it could have unforeseen consequences. 2-2-2 is still the best comp
Cool idea but also that messes with people’s learning of the character and memorizing cooldowns and ability cycling. But if it means people won’t run triple support I’d be all for it
I have a good idea for countering triple support. Winter soldier ult does 100 dmg and reduces a target's max health by 20%. This makes it far easier to one shot someone through a support ult. The problem is the bucky mark lasts a short amount of time, so you need a pretty coordinated team to focus the person who got bucky ulted. 20% puts a 250 health character at 200 hp and a 275 health at 220. Idk if this could actually be effective but it's just an idea that I've been stewing on for a bit
If you take away support ults, the game will just devolve into cycling through team wipe ults. They should greatly increase charge time for all ults. Also don't balance the game for the 0,01%.
Whenever i see those heal ults. I feel like okay its done time to fall back because there is no point trying to fight for point because they are not gonna die
Personal Patch Notes (Give Input) Buffs: Black Panther: A- -> A+/S A. Revert Reduced health after refreshing Vibranium Marks from 40 to 30, and the upper limit from 120 to 75. B. Fix bug where dash hit doesn’t register Adam Warlock: A- -> A+/S A. Decrease cooldown on “Soul Bond” by 5 seconds B. Add additional charge of “Avatar Life Stream” Rocket Raccoon: B -> A- A. Projectiles fired from “Bombard Mode” are now hitscan B. 10% of the amplified damage done by Allies within range of the “C.Y.A.” Is converted to shield for the individual damage dealer Venom: B -> A/A+ A. “Cellular Corrosion” now prevents enemies under its effect from using movement abilities B. “Venom Swing” can longer be interrupted on start-up and during cast Peni Parker: B- -> B+/A- A. “Baby DVA form” - if peni does not die in the time it takes for a death timer she can Re-Mech B. “Cyberbond” can be used to pull a target to peni’s location and move peni to the targets original location if used in this way cooldown increases to 12 sec Captain America: C -> B+/A- A. Allies within 5m of enemies hit by “Sentinel Strike” projectiles gain 5 over-health B. “Freedom Charge” increases Captain America damage by 10% C. Enemies hit by “Liberty Rush” are stunned for .25 seconds additionally Allies within 5m of a target stunned by “Liberty Rush” gain 20 over-health Jeff the Land Shark: C -> B/B+ A. Revert Jeff ultimate change and healing done to allies is distributed evenly to enemies as damage dealt upon consumption B. “Oblivious Cuteness” now makes Jeff the land shark immune to critical hits C. Increase health from 250 -> 275 Iron Fist: D -> B/B+ A. Increase Health from 250 -> 300 B. Anytime Iron fist touches a surface regain all charges of “Crane Leap” Black Widow: D -> B+/A- A. “Widow Bite Batons” now apply a “venom” stack (max 3 stacks) - Venom Stacks deal 3 dps and slow a targets move speed by 5% B. Electro-plasma Explosion: - Increased damage from 120-170 -> 150-200 1.5sec for full charge - “Electro-plasma Explosion” now ignores the benefits of bubbles and shields C. “Fleet Foot” is no longer tied to a resource and can be toggled indefinitely D. “Widows Jump” black widow can double jump every 6 seconds Scarlet Witch: D -> B/B+ A. Reality Erasure: - Scarlett Witch is CC immune while channeling - Upon cast Scarlet Witch is healed to full health additionally gains 100 over-health to a maximum of 375 B. Scarlet Witch can now be healed during “Mystic Projection” C. Scarlet Witch max health increased from 250->275 Hawkeye: A -> S A. “Archers Focus” can charge from up to 60m away Spider-Man: B- -> B+ A. Spider-Man can cancel downward punch animation with uppercut ability B. Reduce “Web Swing” cooldown by 1 second Mr. Fantastic: B - B+/A- A. Brainiac Bounce increase damage on all leaps by 20 from 50 - 100 -> 70 - 120 B. Mr. Fantastic transform at max elasticity faster Nerfs: Luna Snow: S A. Health Reduced from 275->250 B. Fate of Both Worlds: - On cast Luna Snow is cleansed of all CC effects for .25 second - Luna Snow is no longer immune to the effects of CC, CCs will not stop the channeling of her ultimate ability - Decrease Healing from 250/s -> 200/s - Reduce ult timer from 12s -> 10s Mantis: S A. “Spore Slumber” is now a single target ability, additionally target hit by spore slumber can no longer be awoken by Allies B. Soul Resurgence - On cast Mantis is cleansed of all CC effects for .25 second - Mantis is no longer immune to the effects of CC, CCs will not stop the channeling of her ultimate ability - Reduced healing from 150/s -> 80/s - Allies damage is boosted by 15% - Allies movement speed is increased by 1.5m/s - Ally attack speed is increased by 15% C. Health reduced from 275->250 Cloak and Dagger: S A. Reduce “Eternal Bond” Healing from 220/s -> 120/s B. Increase time to gain ultimate Invisible Woman: S A. Health reduced from 275->250 B. Reduce “Invisible Boundary” healing from 165/s -> 120/s additionally non-ability based projectiles are blocked by “Invisible boundary” barrier Storm: S A. Increase time to gain ultimate Namor: S A. “Frozen Spawn” has equivalent stats to “Monstro Spawn” B. Namor summons target the closest enemy with the highest total health pool additionally when Namor hits a target within summon range it will override target priority to last enemy hit by Namor trident Hela: S A. Hela can now be damaged and healed while channeling “Astral Flock”
It’s less of a problem in lower Elo (I’m Diamond - would still consider that just pretty good) and it’s beatable. In GM plus though where stacks of good players are on constant comms it becomes busted.
maybe the strat for mitigating overbearing healing output is to reduce healing output per strategist on the team. like, for a number of strategists 'x', say their outgoing healing is multiplied by 2/(x+1). a single support would do all of their currently listed healing, but having a second means both supports do two-thirds the healing, and having three supports means each does half the healing. this kind of formula could be tweaked pretty easily. (a+1)/(x+a) for some non-negative real choice of 'a'. for all choices of 'a', f(1) always equals 1, which is to say a single support on a team will always put out listed healing values. but smaller choices of 'a' will penalize stacking supports more, while larger choices penalize it less.
@ why not tho? You hate Logan you ban Logan and deal with who becomes stronger because of it lol if they really wanted a game with Loki Adam as healers they could create it but they don’t because then dps would rule and they would get exposed
I think people are brainwashed to ban whatever their youtubers are banning. I bet most haven't even seen a good hulk/iron man in a WHILE, but will insta ban then and then lose to idk, moon knight or shit that they actually can't beat but never ban.
@@azie4779its a problem if they actually meet a good strange and iron man. Strange can literally 1 shot squishies and a good iron man would be annoying as fuck. Its a gamble, but its an understandable gamble
A few things I’ve picked up in low ranks (Bronze-Plat) to help with triple support since we don’t have bans. 1.Wolverine is really good at pulling people out of invincibility zones. 2. Storm can solo Mantis out of ult if she doesn’t miss and the dps buff to the whole team is huge 3. Scarlet & Magneto work amazing together. Mag can snipe CnD out of ult, and shield Scarlet for her Ult and you can’t out heal being vaporized. 4. Jeff the Shark is good in 3v3 support. The game will most likely go into overtime and being able to grab everyone off is game winning. 5. Most importantly always assume their supports have ult.
I'm more concerned about the supports actually surviving enough to do these ults properly than talking about how much fights are decided through support ults. Yeah, and that's in GM lobbies too. I agree that support ults should be the one to swing fights, but isn't this why backline pressure and dive are important?
Dive is worthless in rivals. Backlines have tools like cloak dash, luna freeze, mantis stun. Mid ranged DPS like bucky and punisher have extremely good tools vs divers. Peni makes it completely hell to be near the point and forces you to expose yourself to break the generator while having a short CD stuns. And the snipers? They both have a melee antidive ability. The closest thing to diving you can do is try to brawl and chase the supps as soon as there's an opening. And even then with 3 supps the enemy team could decide to play multires and have mantis/Adam/rocket so you might need to kill the fuckass mantis up to 4 times in a single fight. Supps are just too strong
You cant dive in this game, every support has either insta kill you cc,a 5 second cooldown escape button,or an insta heal. The only dive character vaguely worth playing is panther and even then he just farms support ults for the enemy team most of the time
You're exactly right. Dive is def a way to counter, if you go behind and kill the supp, they dont get their ults. Very simple. Anyone saying "you can't dive in this game" cannot be serious lol there are full dive comps 😅😅😅
@ DIve is so good that it does not exist from Diamond 2 onward. At most you get a single guy flanking, but he is a liability because teams actually stay together, turn around and shoot him. You can hide in Narnia behind 78 walls and wait for one supp to be distracted and maybe get a full combo, yes, but while you were AFK waiting for a chance to show itself, the enemy was playing 6v5 and your team was getting their asshole blown out. I'd really like to see you try to play dive into Storm\Punisher or triple support in fucking GM. All you are is an ult battery for Cloak And Dagger or Luna. Oh and if you're great at your character, like really great and skilled, guess what? The enemy team will recognize your name because of the smaller playerbase and go "Those guys have a psylocke main, ban her" at round start or shit like that. Hulk is the best dive tank and is virtually banned from every match to avoid boosting Iron Man and Strange to S tier.
I think the solution is to give all the ults a burst heal/shield at the start and reduce strength of the heal over time afterwords (so they still function as a counter to massive damage/can save the team, but don’t bring the game to a screeching halt
@@Isaac-eh6uu because DPS aren’t shutting down the game state with their ults, they’re progressing it. Even though it’s rhetorical that’s a dumb question.
TF2 has this system where Medic heals more the relative to the time that has passed since the target player has taken dmg. Something like this could be implemented for these ult, so that whoever is being focused can be taken out. Basically: You dmg someone and they receive less healing for like 2 seconds, making heroes with low dmg but high atk speed viable against these ults
I think the healing-over-time effects should be halved, but keep the one time big heal so the ultimate is more of a "panic fully heal all nearby teammates once" button rather than "your teammates cannot die for X seconds"
The healing value of the support ults isn’t a problem. They need to be that way to counter DPS ults. It’s the frequency of them that’s the issue. Just increase their cost and lower the duration by 1 or 2 seconds. Or just make them last the same amount of time as Hela’s ultimate
Punisher+ Rocket ults can kill through Luna\CD\Mantis, iron man can just one shot people through anything. I agree that this level of gameplay is very boring but there is "ways" around it
They need to make the ults versatily, stuff like giving CC immunity to counter certain ults, maybe Mantis with complete invincibility, but a smaller radius and shorter duration, luna ult with a better damage buff and a weaker heal
@JorgeRodriguez-po1fy Crowd Control, basically anything like slows, stuns and the likes. Basically anything that lets you control or limit the movement of an enemy.
The dev said they don't want this game to be a role focused game, but more like a hero focused game. Where regardless of the role, you play because of the hero.
If that was the case then let's just use DPS ults to kill supports! Oh wait, only iron man and moon knight can kill any support in ult, the rest are SOL
@@muzzypwnyouNamor, Hawkeye, Magneto, Thor, Punisher? Also if you focus the healer who's ulting with different abilities/ultimates you can oneshot them. There is counterplay vs supp ults ppl are just to blinded complaining than learning the game. Also you can combo a lot of ultimates (like mk for example) with groot ultimate and wipe the enemy team even when under a defensive ult
I have full confidence they will change the impact and the charge it takes to farm support ults very soon. They seem to have full engagement and purpose to keep their players and/or grow the community more. They have done a great job. Mistakes can be fixed. The game is fantastic and i’m optimistic about the future
Why hasn't the meta adjusted to run DPS with instakill ults? Like obviously triple support is going to outlast 2x2x2 teams with reliable in-meta DPS picks like Storm, Hela, and Star Lord. So why not switch to Iron Man for that scenario? Or even Scarlet Witch? I know she's a low ELO joke hero, but wouldn't she directly counter a team stacking inside a Mantis or Luna chainult? A good Jeff ult into SW ult would demolish triple strategist. The counters are out there but because these characters are considered low-tier, everyone just complains about support being too strong instead of strategizing around them.
@@daodung7874 Jeff ult spitting into Scarlet Witch ult is basically a guaranteed teamwipe. Even the developers use that combo themselves. Especially if the enemy team is grouping up on the point. I'm not saying Jeff or SW are great picks in comp. I know they're two of the least-picked heroes at the top level, but SW's ult can be useful as part of a one-two punch for countering this specific team comp. My point is, the *best Rivals players in the world* seem to be hamstrung by tier lists that they don't consider picking any hero that isn't in-meta. Remember how nobody even bothered trying Wolverine because he was labeled F-tier, and now he's top tier even without significant changes? Every hero in this game has some sort of counter (even the supports). Triple support is obviously strong, but I wish people would actually try using the existing counters before crying for a nerf. Supports *are* strong right now, but using terms like "unkillable" and "invulnerable" are just an excuse for not trying to adapt.
Or they could just nerf the stupid broken stuff like Lunas ult. The answer is to not have broken 12 second near invincibility, the answer is not swap 2 scarlet witch.
The reason why is basically it takes too much effort for the rewards especially for ranked, where people just want to play their heroes. Also triple strat still has 3 other people to counter pick the enemy. Like two of the most popular tanks can counter Ironman ult with shield and mag also has his ult. DPS picks can also counter the other DPS or just pick off enemy support before the enemy dps get ult if they aren't mirroring 3 strat. Not impossible but certainly much harder than mirroring the comp
I'm all for a Luna ult duration nerf. I think it's healthier for the game. And I'm sure a nerf is coming in the future. But yes, I am saying the answer is to swap. Not saying Scarlet Witch should be the ONLY answer, but SWAPPING, in general, is how triple strategists should be stopped. Top players should be adapting to the meta, not begging the developers to patch the game so they don't have to play lower-tier characters. The only reason triple strategists became a thing is because the devs decided to build a competitive hero shooter without role queue. It encourages every team to hyper-optimize cheese comps until we have an arms race to optimize all the fun out of the game. I just think it's a bad habit for top players to tell developers what to do when the counters for strategies already exist in the game. This is like people saying the NBA should move the 3-point-line back because 3pters are too easy now... when there is already a counter to 3-point threats-a superior defense. Yet people would rather try to change the rules than change up their strategy.
You know there is a good reason a certain other game added more anti heal, taking 5-7 business days to kill someone in a shooter tends to be really boring. It feels like the devs designed themselves into a corner here. While nerfing ult charge and duration is definitely a good start, it most likely will only mitigate the issue instead of solving it. Hitting the perfect balance between support ults make you invincible vs dps ults kill you instantly is almost impossible. You know either you live or you die not much breathing room. Seems like a fundamental issue with the design philosophy of just make everything op and try and balance with bans. Hot take incoming but a gameplay loop of spamming rock paper scissors style ults get boring and unfun really quickly.
I think if they added diminishing returns on the ultimates for most of the broken supports it would be better. It would encourage timing more and nerf the sustain as well.
People really think anti heal will fix this dumb meta? These ults last for 10~ seconds or more. I stopped playing this game and went back to overwatch because you can actually kill enemies instead of having 2 to 3 supports gatekeeping the whole server from having fun.
You can kill them through ults with the right ult combo/Teamup. Mag can kill cloak ult. Groot+moon/namor can kill Luna ult. Iron man ult. Strange+hulk Teamup can kill through support ults if timed correctly. There are counters it's just too composition specific. All they need to do is reduce Luna ult duration and the time it takes for them to get support ults.
@@RJA that's the problem DPS ULT do too much damage so supp ults need to counter them or they will always get team kills Since supp ults counter them it means all other damage isn't relevant and the people become immortal It's a unbalanced messy cycle
Support ults are honestly ruining this game at least in higher elo, this meta is soooo boring, everyone is unkillable. Marvel rivals have to do something about this, if not I fear this game will lose a LOT of players
Streamers always find a way to complain. When you play something for 10 hours a day of course you will see the cracks. I don’t want nerfs. I don’t want MR to be hyper competitive. Go back to OW2 if that’s what you need. I need a casual fun shooter I can play with my son.
What he's saying would make the game objectively better for everyone. I'm a support main and I don't play in high tier. I get so tired that in the 2 hours at best I have to play it's luna/mantis/cnd/invisible every single game with no variety. Constantly waiting for these ultimates to quit so we can play again. It is like this in freaking quick play.
How would tripple supports being worse make the game less fun to play with your son? Worse support ults objectively means you get to make more plays and have more fun
My proposed Luna ultimate rework; she starts dancing 💃 and her snowflake is applied to all allies within range, giving them a slight damage buff and shared healing. She can still fight and move normally while dancing. Whenever she heals an ally, all teammates with the snowflake also receive healing, and damage dealt by snowflaked allies is also applied as healing to the rest of the group. If nothing else we need these supports ultimates to be more proactive and less “press Q to pause the game for your enemies”
Honestly Loki lamp needs to be fucking removed man, GM1 atm and it being a pseudo ult on a 30 second cooldown is just so criminal, supports need a 10-15% increase on their ult charge bare minimum, I’m solo tanking every game because every loser and their mother wants a free ride playing support, 3-4 support mains per team
@@RomanBishop2Kdisagree cause thats just a bandaid fix doesnt solve anything cause now you will ban them instead of banning the supports anti heal shouldn’t be a thing in the game cause now you add anti heal you make tanks boring to play.
@@Notwedsquid well it doesn’t seem like they wanna go the nerf ult charge route so it’s anti heal or bust, even if it’s just a 2-3 second anti heal duration, it means you can combo it with ults and not wanna scream when you pop groot ult and they go “PUTTING ON A SHOW” and nothing happens for 12 seconds, followed by Loki copying it and doing an encore
Another really busted thing is shields with the support ults. Its so hard to actually even use a one shot on them when theres a big ass strange shield, magneto shields, magneto bubbles, groot walls, hulk shields etc. Closest thing is probably punisher ult since he can break all but mag shield but unless he has a supp ult keeping him up, he is just dying before he gets a kill through shields/ults.
They just need to change Support Ults to do like half or even less healing than they currently do They should push breakpoints on damage, like the healing applied should require Hela to land 3 projectiles in her Ult, or Star-Lord one extra clip Cloak and Dagger shouldnt even heal, it should be the heal up + damage up effect on the floor
this would make dps too strong, you're not accounting for how much damage dps ults can dish out. the most reasonable solution is to let supports keep their overpowered ults making them feel impactful. but to nerf to ult charge and make the ult last for less time. this would allow for counterplay and make supports actually think about when to ult instead of just ulting whenever because it lasts for so long making you win the fight and the fact that you can get a second ult in less than a minute
@Mlyodas Eh, not really You can shutdown most Tank/DPS Ults without using another Ult Either damage, CC, LOS, healing, defensive, general positioning If one is too much of an issue, then nerf is directly
Turn ult healing into burst rather than continuous, making them vulnerable to more than just oneshots and making overlapped ults less of a detriment and potentially a strategy.
It begins. The inevitable turn on rivals. I knew these streamers and their cretins would eventually start moaning about the game and requesting things that they need in the game It happened quicker than I thought Watch them perpetually moan like they did with OW in a few months' time The honeymoon period in Overwatch was over a year We're what, 2 months into rivals? Lmao Hilarious
Right like wtf we are ALREADY complaining that the support are too strong??? Every single hero shooter this happens lmao. The support could be totally counterable or even completely ass and they would still say the problem is support lol but like why should the top 0.1% get to speak for what happens to the game over everyone else anyways
They should double the needed points to charge their ultimates and reduce time by like 10%. I think that would fix it and they would still be very powerful
Hell no, remember when they were wrong about Wolverine? It ended up getting buffed for this season and it's banned in every single match. They said the same about Mr. Fantastic and people slowly started to show his potential. The points Bogur mentioned in this video are valid and I agree with him, but that doesn't make them the most reliable source to balance heroes because everyone is biased and entitled to their own opinion.
My issue isn't how impactful Support ults are, it's how frequently you can get them. Triple support means they're cannibalising one anothers' healing, so they're all getting their ults at a slower rate, but the cost to ult isn't high enough for that to be an issue. Cannibalising each others' ult generation by competing for heals should be a legitimate downside.
You build ult by doing damage too Nobody is cannibalising another supports ult
@@shogun0810 Cloak and Dagger wet noodle damage would not build her ult at the current rate if she would focus on damage lmao.
The thing is : As Mantis, I'm not really a healer, I'm a DPS/Support hybrid, and if we already have a Luna and a Cloak and Dagger, I wont have to heal much and I'll instead give damage boost to msyelf, and also, as usual, go for headshots on the enemy to deal damage and get picks.
So as long as the third support is Mantis that can easily just focus on dealing damage and damage amp, you don't have this issue.
@@tanez778 who said focusing on damage?
Why is every little rivals goblin incapable of reading a full sentence without twisted the words of the original comment
@@tanez778cloak does more damage then SW btw dagger damage is bad
For reference, Cloak and Dagger's energy cost is 3400, Loki is 3700, Luna is 4000, Adam is 5000. and for each point of healing you get 1 energy.
Funny how Adam gets the longest charge with the weakest ultimate.
@@olofacosta3192 I guess it's the cool factor. The only benefit over other ults is that it's like an ambush, pretty much like a doctor strange teleport. He even yells to let you know where they are.
@ That's my main issue with Adam honestly. What's better than a revive is not letting your team die in the first place. Also his soul bound ability kinda just team griefs because dpses in this game are just so strong.
Adam ult needs full heal. Other supp ults needs seconds reduction. IW and rocket I think are okay
@@addamriley5452rockets ult should make the team strong enough to kill someone like Luna in her ult, or put a hit point amount that caps the amount a Luna can heal her team, while ulting.
Waiting for Luna Snow to finish her ultimate is so boring. It feels like your team fight goes into intermission as you sit around and wait for it to end.
Thats when you dive in to get as much damage as possible to get you own ult up
well she is putting on a show 🤣
You can kill her with Scarlet and Punisher ult tho
@@MsLacieable yes, if she stay afk for 5 secs waiting for punisher or scarlet to kill her
@@FrostyShock349 dive a team that's unkillable?
Wow you're bronze
Necros always catching strays lmao
Bogur is so mean to his bf smh
Toxic Yaoi
He deserves it his ego is fucking wild
You know it isn't real Bogur when he stops shitting on his own teammates 😂
was saying this the whole video mans just catching all the strays
Invisible Woman should just give everyone in her zone Shields. Fits better Lore-wise and serves the same purpose of giving her Team “HP” to use in the fight.
Cloak and Dagger should have a new Ult altogether, Lore-wise it doesn’t make sense and getting rid of it removes a Sustain issue and gives the Devs another crack at getting it right.
I like the invis woman idea. I was gonna say change mantis ult to something like kiriko’s from ow. Regardless, yeah the issue is there are too many support ults that make everyone invincible
I was really hoping invis woman would instead of healing her primary fire added shields to a target health bar but the shields wouldn't apply past the targets base health kinda like how venoms shields reduce as he gets healed up. I think it would be an interesting new spin on a supp that supps without having to heal and that way any potential anti heal they added wouldn't be super giga busted because you still have a support that could support through the anti heal.
I think invisible woman's ult need to be an actual massive barrier. It fits the character and would it make it an actual unique ult. Ofcourse it would still heal, but only om the same pace her regular barrier heals, in other words, ults like punisher and Iron man would be countered, but ults like psylocke and spiderman could shut it down.
Cloak and dagger just need a longer charge time for their ult I swear they pop ult like 3 times every team fight
Make their whole kit consistant. If dagger can't damage, don't make her daggers and ult damage, if cloak can't heal don't make his ult heal. Making it do both is just too much.
I was so happy to see Invis Woman have a cool ult, only to be disappointed when I found out it heals
I'd be fine with it healing if it wasn't a ludicrous amount. Something like 60/70hps would be fine
Maybe like cloak bubble healing
@@ohmanilovemyguitarHell, half a squishie's healthpool/sec isnt bad either. It means you could definitely hard focus specific targets and get them out of the fight, other than being another flavor of "ult that makes you unkillable" that nearly every other meta support has.
@@ohmanilovemyguitar 60/70 hp a second for an ult would kinda suck. cause Jeff heal's twice that ammount.
The heals is just so it's not useless compared to others, because just making the inside invisible doesn't do enough to assist your team agaisnt most situations. Melee would just barely be affected at all and you can still hit stuff inside from the outside pretty easily without seeing because the enemy team is likely stacked in there.
We ban cloak and dagger in ranked now. Luna and Cloak banned. Game is suddenly bearable again
same
same but then they go mantis loki and sue storm. it still sneaks in some times. Sometimes im forced to play it
@@xxcridonxx7614 Yeah but you can fight those, easily. Mantis can get cc'd and get eaten by jeff in her ult, and invis they have to fight within the barrier for the heals, so any ult that clears that area will stop it, like jeff, iron man, moonkinght, squirrel girl ult can also kill through with enough damage along side it, hulk ult can knock people out and clap them at range when they are knocked out, and wolverine can take people out of it with his ult, and so on.
@ moon knight and mag are really the only counter for the ult. However in my gm lobbies, mag is played a lot rn and he can just buble sue storm or mantis.
Ok but mantis and Adam can heal just as much lol so
Maybe this is a hot take, but I do not want an anti heal. That will just result in problems later down the line. Nerfing the duration is the best solution and makes supp ults have more skill as timing it wrong could lose your team the game. Another solution would be to add counterplay what if cloak ult was faster to cast but she could be stunned out of it or what if stunning Luna temporarily stopped the ults effects.
I think it's just best that having divers deal with healers is just the best choice instead of having anti heals. I'm sure they'll implement more strategists that focuses on buffs more than healing too since rocket exists with his ult, maybe we'll see damage reduction as well.
Venoms dive should do barely any damage but be a living ana grenade, unbiased, not a venom player, dont check my match history
I agree, Anti heal will make more trouble. and going to be next big annoying.
What I want is to give the ults better powers outside of the healing, like cloaks giving a speed boost for less healing. Invisible womans is almost there because the invisible is very fun and powerful, but they just need to not have it heal forever, like give it a burst heal when cast and that's it.
Mantis could have an interaction with her resource, make it recharge on every body shot so to heal she needs to be actively involved in the fight.
Luna's just sucks, make it 5 seconds or something, idk what I'd do with it being 12 secs.
I think the solution is 3 fold: one, decrease duration, two, decrease rate of healing so that things are actually killable, three, increase energy required for ult charge.
The only problem is that some ults like Storm basically require a healer ult or else it’s a wipe
That’s where the problem of “oh the games good because everyone’s op”. Like sure, but when you have issues that need to be fixed, everything comes tumbling down.
@@mene6465 this was how ow was like in the beginning. So many characters were op like Mcree, Genji, widow, Roadhog. Now they're all a shadow of themselves with the series of nerfs after nerfs years down the line. I see the same fate with marvel rivals
@@mene6465not everything needs to be inherently solved it’s a matter of want vs what the game actually is in ratio. Storm ult should do that, she is the goddess of wind, if she presses her ult you die, a support ult is meant to counter that simple. It’s not the matter of toning down dps ult’s, it’s the matter of rate-usage, supports gets their Ults to consistently, sometimes you’re team should get wiped, it’s a matter of interest, I’m almost eternity and I want things to be somewhat more inline for what I want, but at the same time you’re putting your vision of the game over what the game is actually presenting you. Yes everything is op, and it should stay that way, Ults should be impactful, you are a superhero. But the consistency rate of support ults out do the other roles by a large margin, that’s why so many people are clambering to play sup. The game is inherently designed to be just casual fun, if they lean back it too much it’ll lose its identity it’s not overwatch as a former gm player for years nor should we have the same idea’s of what’s acceptable or not acceptable. Let the game fill out with characters and new team ups in the couple seasons to see what the game is, is it more inline to what overwatch was or is it more inline with a moba or are the characters whacky and overpowered and from the leaks it looks like overpowered is the idea, I don’t think necessarily nothing dying for x amount of time is fun, and shouldn’t he changed, it should, it’s a easy fix change the rate of cooldown. But that’s not what I’m asking, I’m asking the question why, I.e why do you think this is the path for the game too choose, and why is x not dying in y amount of time a problem? Is it because it’s not like overwatch? Yeah you’re right it’s not? Not trying to get too deep here, but I feel like people need to let the game be itself, yes it should absolutely fix things that need to be changed like this, but it’s a matter of understanding why it needs to be fixed, and also understanding not everything needs to be “fixed” as again it’s not like the other games, it has different nuances and depth to it that makes certain things needed for the flow of gameplay. Whole yap, wasn’t getting on you or wasn’t even a negative thing. Just was more opposed to the person asking about the storm ult.
I've found that our skill level and understanding of the game isnt there yet. Storm ult in a lot of way is very easy to dodge. The problem is a lot of people haven't played her and have no idea how her ult works. All you have to do is move to higher ground or so far nack she couldn't make it to her team if she tried, even spreading out. This goes for a lot of dps ults Just getting out of the way is the hardest part for people.
Both issues have to be addressed at the same time
I think most of these ults are fine in a vacuum. The problem is the frquency and duration. Obviously a anti heal would be great to help with this but cloak and dagger/luna ult should not exist in their current form. It just stops people from playing the game while they are active and good support players can have them every minute.
These type of ults can exist and work in hero shooters like Zens trans or Lucios beat but the fact that every character has a different version of the same ult is honestly super disappointing
Not to mention, Zen and Lucio have the lowest healing burst potential in the game. Whereas in this game, these heroes have insane healing potential.
Luna Snow is the biggest problem. Ult needs to be shortened and take longer to build. The cleave healing certainly doesn't help.
Sue needs her ult healing nerfed.
Cloak might need to have her ult cost more too, if only because she can build it faster than her opponents can build the ults they need to counter it.
I think anti-heal isn't a good idea. If they do add something like that, I'd like to see them do it in a way that doesn't completely invalidate most of the supports.
Should buff the other effects of their ults while nerfing they're heals e.g Luna damage buff or cloak and dagger ult damage
I think the ult can stay the way it does. Just make it more expensive. The more the healing the ult does, the more expensive it should be.
@@orangejuice3235 Sue's ult hps is only at 165 hps...I would've been more happy if the ult is 70% dr with 0 heals so she would be the full utility ult. CnD main issue rn is her ult being stackable with 4 dashes exist, so she should not be able to stack her dashes. Luna Snow is just entirely an issue where they overcompensate her with the hps and duration due to her "not being able to do anything."
Of 4 current defensive ult, Only Mantis and IW can be CC so you can focus fire them easily or Jeff can eat them up easily with their team while CnD and Luna Snow is just not it.
Adam Warlock is close to the perfectly balanced strategist, he just needs a bit of mobility to encourage him to be more aggressive.
His heals are powerful but have a slow cooldown, his shift ability can save your team’s life but has a long cooldown, he deals pretty good damage but it’s hard to hit enough of his shots.
I have similar feelings about Loki, love playing him. But the constant cloak and dagger ults, and literally staring at luna snow’s ult unless a few certain circumstances are met to counter it, is insane. I am a strategist main btw.
Adam only feels balanced because of how absolutely broken the rest are. But let's not pretend Adam isn't broken as well.
@TheShapingSickness You disagree but give no examples for your argument, real trust me bro energy…
zenyatta had an interesting change in his 2024 april fools patch where the longer he charged up his secondary fire he would float higher. This would be a cool mobility idea for adam but just put it on a cooldown instead of costing ammo.
Yeah I agree, I think Adam is great to play and I like what his ult does. His ult isn't just a revive, it also enables your team to play really agressive with no fear of dying.
I had scenarios where I played Captain America and once I saw Adam ulting I just kep harassing their backline and even when I got killed it didn't matter thanks to Adam's ult. So I think if we even turn into a dive meta Adam will be a key factor in that.
Nah they need to reduce his heal cool down by 1 or 2 seconds and he'll be perfect
been complaining about support ults for the last month. its gettin ridiculous now
Lol cause people are getting better at it. gonna be funny when it gets nerfed.
@@measlesplease1266They will probably find something to complain about.
As someone who loves Cloak and Dagger they NEED to get rid of that 4th dash they did not need it and slow the ult buildup like holy shit man
Pretty sure they buffed them cause luna and mantis were seen as being better along with c&d players complaining about braindead teammates borderline avoiding the ult
I think it just needs a time reduction and once anti-heal gets introduced, let’s see how that works. Mantis ult isn’t that annoying on its own, neither is sue storms really. I just think C and D makes it look even worse because theirs in particular is so strong right now
@dino_mite8403 then they should have nerfed mantis and Luna lol
I think the 4th dash is fine, but the duration needs to go down, and ult charge for all supports needs to be reduced. As a DPS its hard to find openings where my ult can actually get value. Everyone kept saying Psylocke ult was busted...and it was when people didn't know how to avoid it. Now that everyone knows to scatter you hear Japanese screaming (like Genji) it just feels better to solo ult people cuz trying to get any more than 2 people and "DISSAPEAR"/"I'M PUTTING ON A SHOW"/"WE ARE UNDEFEATABLE"... Its feels horrible.
Healers need a ult rework
As a rocket player, nothing kills me more than when I wait for C&D ult to go away so I can ult, but as soon as I pop I hear "DISAPPEAR"
Then you hear mantis ult hit, then you get KOd, then you gotta reset, then by the time you team gets back into position, the C&D has her ult again.
I want them to nerf support ults as a DPS main but I know if they nerf support ults so hard its gonna be bad eventually because this games dps ult are as crazy as support ults. Oh you dont have support ult? BERSERKER RAGE team wipe, again you dont have a support ult? FEEL THE WRATH OF THE GODDESS team wipe, LEGENDARY! team wipe. I know Im just a diamond player and maybe dont know much how to counter those but I wonder how they gonna balance the support ults without making every dps ult a guaranteed fight winner.
This. PRoblem is much deeper. If you want to nerf healing ults. Then nerf overall damage. Then you can have utility ultimates that do different thing without being bad. Right now any support ULT that does not heal is not worth it by default. Adam and Rocket considered as the worst supports to have because of their ults.
the support ults are fine as counters, but the issue is they last too long. Storms ult is like 6 seconds, cloaks is like 18. Thats ridiculous. No support ult should last more than 8 seconds, its just boring as hell. If you pop storm ult and they cloak and no one else has an ult, you just lose every time. Ive seen streamers that just dont pop their DPS ults because they know as soon as they do they'll just lose the fight.
And supports get ults faster than the DPS do as well
you can quickly focus a hela in ult and kill her, you can very easily kill a starlord in ult and you can very easily predict when a wolverine is going to ult
The point is that when most of these characters ults there is something the vast majority of characters can do to counter it, when a support ult like luna snow's ult is used most characters do not have any way to counter it
@@ni9274When your team is focusing down a Hela, do you know what your team is not doing?
Noticing the enemy team that now has free reign to bombard you bec you're all diverting your attention to the 1000 hp sky target.
Just throw an Invisible Woman shield, or a Magneto shield on the Star Lord and he has enough invulnerability time to kill at least one squishy character before it ends. You're saying these things like this isn't a team game.
Cloak isn't 18... That's a misconception... Her ult disappears around 6 seconds but fades along the path it first takes
I think a great way to rebalance Black Widow would be to introduce anti-heal to her kit. Could be as easy as giving it to her extremely underwhelming plasma burst ult, and would make sense for her lore as a spy that sabotages/disrupts enemies' plans.
Plus would make it so that whatever new character releases with anti-heal isn't an insta lock
Then those characters would be insta bans. Then what
@@ryanguerrero2327 No she wouldn't bruh. her having anti heal on ULTIMATE wouldn't make everyone go "oh my god she's the best on the roster, we need to ban HER!" when there's literally better and more strategic heros to ban.
Anti-heal for Plasma Burst is actually a great idea. If we can have someone else with an anti-heal grenade too. I rather see NetEase balance by adding more busted stuff than removing things.
I really feel like it should have been that instead of "another sniper". Widow is already underwhelming but I'm just afraid the devs are just gonna give her a oneshot and then we're back with forced Widow mirrors like we have in Overwatch.
@@ohnobees8033 people are starting to figure out how to play her, that she's best at far midrange. Aiming on her feels a little weird, but if youre on PC its probably not as much an issue
It's so depressing as a Duelist to get into position to try and make a play and just hear "US AGAINST THE WORLD" or "IT'S TIME TO PUT ON A SHOW". I just sigh, move back to a different position and wait for it to be over, only to hear "YOUR POWERS ARE MINE" and it happens all over again, and unless I'm Iron Man there's literally nothing I can do about it.
The entire game just gets put into pause for a full minute, every other minute.
Equally depressing as a strategist to get into position start healing your team only to just hear: "THE MOON HAUNTS YOU!" "MAXIMUM PULSE" "PURE CHAOS" "FEAR THE WRATH OF THE GODDESS!". Then you just sigh and run back because your whole team was deleted. This is just DPSers whining because other people get to play the game for a change.
@@ericmartin2740 you did not include wanda ult lol its so easy to counter, moonknight I understand but its literally just broken (not op i mean not working properly) Iron man ult is again very easy to deal with, and storm ult can be healed through or just dashed out of there is counter play. Support ults have little to no counter play and the ones available outside of moonknight can actually be hard to do. Supports are by far the most influential role rn and dictate who wins or loses. Tanks do as much dmg if not more than DPS and are impossible to kill since healing is so strong. DPS on the other hand can be 1v1'd easily by tanks and some supports. Their ults have little value since support ults are easier and faster to charge up. I dont think dps should be able to 1v1 everything but DPS just kinda sucks rn
It is so depressing as a support to do everything I can to keep the frontrine alive, just to hear "Chō no mai o KURAEEE" or "LEEEEGEEENDARYYY" ...so I'm just gonna sigh and go back to spawn. And now you want to deprive me of the only way a suppot can counter it?
@@sWejk If you're doing "everything" you can to keep the frontline alive, you already have your ult long before any Duelist does.
Consistant teamwide invulnerability ults are cancer.
@@ericmartin2740 brother please stop supports are out of fucking control and are we fr talking about wanda ult low elo detected
I think hero shooters need to move support ults away from just "big heals"
I hope they will adress it in DC Rivals or smth
That's what's crazy to me. The rest of their game design is "let's add a new spin to this that solves a lot of problems and makes for dynamic gameplay" and then they give all the "strategists" not just heal ults BUT THEY MAKE THE CHARACTERS INVINCIBLE. If it was just healing then it woudn't be a huge issue to counter, but out healing everything except one shots, is crazy.
@@measlesplease1266Not to mention half the dps ults are just “select and area and everyone in it dies” there’s so little variation or creativity
@@the_andriiDC confronters*
I mean OW solved this. Even with big team ults like Lucio's you can still kill a target with focus, Zen in general isn't the biggest healer outside of his ult so it balanced out, and Mercy's just doesn't heal enough to be close to something like Luna's, and on top of that you can still kill the Mercy.
There are so many DPS ults and other things that can be stopped with so many ways or heavily mitigated. I think Strategists shouldn't be immune to CC during their ults, let them suffer the same fate as us if they don't place their ults smart.
That's so true. Everyone is immune to cc so they just casually drop it in the middle of the map without counter. If healer play that game, Let me use my Peni ult uncontested as I drop mines on those pesky healers back line.
i mostly play tank/support and i agree with this. most of the support ults are way too low risk for how rewarding they are. its super boring as a support as well.
@@toxicdermyillunary4103honestly Peni ult should be CC immune, or at least give her a wrecking ball effect so she can't get body blocked.
In my opinion we should just scale up a lot of other heros to be to this level. I like the fact that everyone is unkillable in support ults. It feels lore accurate. However, not oneshotting people as black widow, ults like Mr. Fantastic, Captain America, Thor, Peni, Rocket Etc; should be brought to the level as the rest of the roster. Adding things like antiheal or more damage to some of these sub-par characters ults/abilities would help resolve this issue and make triple support not as viable. For instance, if rockets ult gave more damage it would make killing through cloak ult much more effective, adding anti heal to Peni's webs would allow her ult to spread anti heal everywhere.
@tigerfalco Exactly. I've been ended from my ult by back to back Luna freeze, Mantis no aim sleep, and Hulk stun not of misplay but the nature of Peni ult. While the same Luna can pop off her ult and rush to objective like a Noob. Well, only if she is not CC immune and immortal while doing it.
Currently GM1 and I couldn't agree more, I've probably ran into triple support in 80% of my games. I hope they either nerf defensive ults or add in an anti heal ability
They should bring in game buff/debuff selection like Paladins maybe =?
iirc paladins give every player healing debuff once the match got longer and longer no@@questimegaming
I’m gm2 and I’ve started running magneto or iron man and killing cloak ult problem is her cooldown is so fast I can only get rid of every other one. He said it in the video but groot and moon knight can work as well
I think the team should have a healing reduction after 3 supports are picked.
@@Swayz790 me and my friend run mag loki and we still can't keep up
Triple support is annoying because there is a lack of dps ults that actually counter their immortality ults. We have iron man, moon knight, scarlet witch and namor + groot ult combo to stop them. Scarlet witch ult is too hard to get off w/o strange portal and namor needs a good groot ult so we basically have 2 dps ults that answer them and with so many options its very unlikely that you will have both or 1 of them on your team at all times to counter. This is what makes triple support so annoying there is just a lack of ult counter play that duelists have. 5/8 strategists have immortal ults while 4/19(realistically 2/19) duelists have ways to stop it. They either need to reduce the amount of healing the ults give by like a percentage so there is a window for characters like storm, psylocke, punisher, and spider man can kill strategists using their ult if some else is shooting at the strategists also. Add like a 5% healing reduction which allows strategist to be killed in ult on some duelists ults like widow, magik, iron fist, squirrel girl, panther.
Don't forget magneto ult he can kill every support with his ult if you charge it up fully. Cloak is the easiest to hit with it while luna and mantis are the two that need some charge from the enemy to kill them with one tap. Support ults definitely need to be nerfed or at least have the healing nerfed so you can at least try and kill the healer without having to save your ult especially because people like magneto don't charge as fast as supports
Believe it or not one single support can someone alive from a spider man ult cause they have so much sustain same can be said for storm but that one is a little more harder to keep someone alive.
Those are plenty to stop them especially since if they are vulnerable during it then their own supports can just keep them healed
i mostly play tank/support in comp and i couldn't agree more. i legitimately feel bad that i can just say no to most dps ults with mine and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
You basically argue why making ults the only counter sucks, just change the support ults and you won't have to worry. Why are you making it complicated?
Support ults basically making their team immortal for 12 sec
Yeah it's boring even as a support main
Except they don't. Lunas does unless you play around it/Ironman and punisher ect
@@scotttimbrell8632except they do. If you're not playing near your *_ulting Luna while they are ulting_* you're probably WAY outta position.
12 sec Luna + 12 sec Loki + 12 sec C&D...
I'll even do the math for you: thats 36 seconds, slightly over half a minute of nobody dying.
Not really tho? Take invis women for example, kill her off when she popped her ult and the whole field is gone. Not immortal anymore
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 Great, so what are you doing for the rest of the time that isn't 36 seconds? Do you and your team also stagger your DPS/tank Ults?
Like in a vacuum it sounds like a lot until you realise that the game doesn't work that way.
Ow2 I was a support main because I felt their general play styles were more unique and interactive however in rivals I’m slowly starting to hate playing support because of how 1 dimensional it really is. You just healbot and farm ult every single game and if you try playing off meta supports with no OP defensive ults, you get punished for it and your whole team explodes.
I really hope they address this issue soon and make the role healthy and fun to play
@@rfewer i actually relate to this sm. i was t500 supp on ow and moving to rivals i obviously mained support at the start but once i hit like diamond it js got so boring playing the same few supps and feeling like the only real impact they have is their ults. so i started playing a lot of dps and am now gm lol. supports in rivals just need more diverse kits and hopefully we’ll see that in the future
This is the reason I still prefer Overwatch even with its flaws
I just wish that they would stop with healing defensive ult. I want them to rework Mantis to be more like Lucio's ult and IW to be a huge damage reduction buff instead of heals while also nerfing Luna and CnD ult charge gain, ult duration and their hps on the ult.
@@lunadeador even better, give her symmetra's ultimate and make it an actual barrier
@@lunadead Don't touch CnD ult duration, it's a stationary ult.
i think 2 things need to happen:
1) Ults in general, not just supports, are too fast. I shouldnt be able to pop an ult in the first minute of a game unless i somehow got an Ace myself.
2) Healing ults need to change. Theres more ways to give defensive boosts w/o just heal aoe. Four of them are mad heals, with the least oppressive of the four still being almost immortal-time (sue's is the weakest, but that by no mean says its actually weak in itself). Why Sue doesnt just shield everyone for 800-1000hp instantly and a short invis is beyond me. I dont know what would be lore accurate for CnD since i really dont know anything about that character, Mantis is probably fine and Luna is too long.
Big one to me is frequency. Multiple CnD ults in the same fight...just..what?
Your first point is just a straight no.
The point of the game is the abilities. Getting ult fast is the point.
Agree on all. This is a straight up ult simulation
dont get mixed up on balance with lore
@ "lore accurate" would be more meaning something the character would actually do normally, not how strong they are.
For instance it makes no sense that hulk has a projectile stun. I don't know where they got that from, he should have a ground slam ability that slows or knocks back.
That comment has nothing to do with how strong said abilities are. Which is what most people get hung up on when they talk "lore accurate"
I’m seeing a lot more Magnetos shutting down CD ult consistently. So there’s that
The issue with this is how fast (again) C&D farms ult. Magneto takes at minimum 1.5x or 2x as long to farm his ult and... you can see where the problem is
@@monkkindNot only that but if enemy has magneto, he can protect his C&D with a shield and enemy magneto can't outplay that as he need to charge his ult a bit but a "kill range" can be covered with a shield. So two magneto players trying to kill C&D and both trying to protect theirs which is a bit boring too
and C&D is the easiest character to ult with magneto. Luna and mantis pop ult and start zooming around so even if you miss by an inch they only take half damage by your ult and there are other variables like shields and all
Literally both c+d and Luna are counterable by magneto. This is a lot of complaining for heroes that have counters, honestly just seems like people should play counters more
@ it really depends on many factors. You can't say that magneto in every match wins against Luna and C&D ultimates. First of all, they both get it faster then magneto. Also, they can be covered by their teammates & shields. Also, punisher instantly overloads and destroys magneto ultimate as well. Random bridge or other cover doesn't let Magneto land his ultimate. Also Luna can avoid Magneto ultimate by moving, C&D has harder time to deal with it.
Just like how Wolverine makes sure there's no triple tank cheese, hopefully a character is added that prevents triple support cheese (maybe Blade?).
That is legitimately such a good idea.
@@rollerskdudethis is the same mentality that caused Brig to exist in overwatch. "We can't nerf tracer she's our perfect baby girl, let's just make a character that makes everyone else worthless".
Nah, the ults are too strong and need sledgehammer nerfs, that's it.
@@rensmasteredarchives6796 all ults needs a nerf to much dmg and healing in this game.
Characters that are made to hard counter a specific thing is terrible design
@@rensmasteredarchives6796naw the timings should change but I actually like having strong healers, I actually have a chance to survive some encounters
If healer ults are nerfed, braindead dps ults like storm/star lord would need to be nerfed as well.
Substantially increasing the charge time for ults across the board is probably the best solution.
It’s fine for them to counter dps ults and I want to keep it that way the problem is the frequency and the duration of the ults so I don’t think dps ults really need to get nerfed since they would still get countered by a well timed support ult even if they nerf the duration
if we get in this way o put all the fun in trash nerf all stuf goin the way ow2 go
Making ultimate charge slowly will make the game boring imo.
Sadly people (mostly ex OW players) will find anything to complain, the game is very fun to play, but yeah let's try to ruin this game complaining about everything like OW
So you think nothing happen for 20+ second is fun? Melee char is straight up useless in this meta too(except maybe magik) @@michele6241
"cloak and dagger can tank moon knight ult if you stack your dashes enough so it doesn't really matter" yeah let me just casually quad stack cloak ult inside of the moon knight ult
Bogur was unfortunately wrong here. MK ult deals 350dps over 3 seconds. CD ult strips heal 220hps each, so you only need 2 to survive.
The silly part is that if CD ults in response to the MK ult, the first strip will keep their team alive long enough to get the second off. By the end the MK ult is over and CD gets to push two more strips.
As a cnd player we barely have to stack, I don't even think we do need to. One would prob be enough.
I honestly think cooldowns should be increased a lot more for heal ults. Might feel bad but it doesn't feel good to have ults so much.
If youre playing against a 2-1-3 comp, always go moonknight. You WILL get your ult faster than the enemy supports and it WILL kill enough people to win you the fight.
Unless enemy support is good and will out-snipe moon knight.
Why would enemy supports be sniping moon knight? Moon Knight is going to be behind his strange farming ult off your tanks lmao. Mantis, Cloak, Luna especially aren't doing enough damage at long range to kill Moon Knight unless he's braindead.
lol moon knight ult only works because its bugged and they havent bothered to fix it
@@ramsey-x2u well the thing is in 3 supp meta somebody will flank moon knight. It can even be a decent hybrid support like Rocket or Sue.
I understand a lot of the complaints here, but you have to be very careful about balancing games based off of the top 0.1% of lobbies.
Yeah my partner is in silver and without the ults, it would literally be full team wipes on each side over and over again lol
This is certainly not the 0.1%. Triple support gets bad even in Gold and plat, which are both before bans.
@@DerfyRedI mean there’s counters im assuming people just aren’t playing them no bans. What about storm with her damage boost with rocket and a punisher or Bucky + rockets ult (which is a support ult that doesnt make ppl unkillable lol but ppl continue to hate on him he just needs specific team comps.) namor ult centered on Luna ult plus rocket ult can also kill through a Luna ult.
@@Finn-wc8nq great, you wasted storm e rocket ult punisher or Namor ult and got 1 kill to stop an ult that charges again before either of the ults you used.
That’s all assuming Luna is dumb enough to stand in Namor ult or run right at the ulting punisher.
C&D literally won’t die to punisher no matter the damage amp, so you didn’t even solve that.
Even so, you failed to mention the best counter Magneto ult. Which, to your credit, does shut down all healer ults. However, that’s just one ult. In triple support they have 2 more. You just used your only counter, and you still have to deal with 2 more immortality ults. And now, if you ever use mag ult to counter punisher or star lord or hella, you get to deal with all 3 support ults. This isn’t a solution.
True
This is a big problem, anyone arguing otherwise is in denial. But I don’t actually think how fast supports get ult or how long they last is the problem. They heal too much. These ults makes people unkillable unless you have one shots. I think a good way to benchmark how much they should heal is that they should be just enough to out heal through DPS ults like star lord, storm and spiderman giving the enemy the ability to hard coordinate to kill through ults while remaining impactful. Make cloak and dagger ult unstackable and reduce their healing to match DPS ult prowess.
I agree with everything except CnD. Let the ult stack with diminishing returns, so stacking is still useful, but its nowhere near as crazy as right now.
Finally someone with a brain, exactly. Like everything else in the game it needs to require skill to deal with.
@@107frenchy That's redundant. The base damage and healing is fine and then stacking it is when it gets crazy. It's cheesy and I assumed it wouldn't stack when I first played because that's just jank.
Part of me feels like Luna Snows ult lasts as long as it does because they want the full dance to be done, but if thats the case then what they could do is make it so you have 6 second of healing for ult, and 6 seconds of damage boosting on ult, and you can switch between them, but when you run out of damage, you go healing and vice versa. That way the ult last just as long, and you are forced to be more proactive with it, and they don't have to nerf the healing amount or cost
Praying they dont add anti-heal and just nerf the ults. Triple support isnt the problem its the broken ults
The best thing they can do is SLIGHTLY bring down healing on ults and duration. Like, level out most of the support ults that just intrinsically heal a shit ton, so that it requires some form of strategic timing and decision making to pull the ult trigger.
Supports ults are the only down time supports get in game lol. Every team fight I feel like I’m playing out of my mind and transcending levels when both teams are on equal footing.
Its cool. I like the long and strategic fights. Its causes people who panic, to be the ones who lose first
1. Combos with your team make facing 2-3 strategists a breeze.
2. Cloak and Luna ults have counters. Examples are namor and moon knight with their ult. And maybe finish them with a strange or mantis ult for support.
I get its a little frustrating facing constant healing, but this gives us ways to work around it.
Yes and no. We shouldn't have to play those characters just to play a match at all. I'm not saying you said that, I'm just saying the game should not force it to come to that.
I'm also not a big proponent of Role Queing. So it can get annoying facing 3 supports, especially when they all just heal each other to stay alive.
And again, the ults do too much. Yes, the ones that one shot through them work...but that isn't a proper solution. "Play these characters or die". There needs to be some level of rework to healing and support as a whole.
@@xXxMasterDuelistxXxIt's a game where characters and team comps are meant to counter others.
You don't get to just one trick, then whine to the devs.
Honestly the ultimates in Marvel Rivals are probably its biggest failing. Most of them are not particularly interesting, and are just cosmetic changes to "damage bomb" or "team lives forever." And even then the cosmetics aren't even that different; Damage Bomb is mostly "Guy in the sky throws a truck at you" and the Team Lives Forever is "This chick has an aura."
Groot, Strange, Rocket, and to some extent Squirrel Girl and Widow are really the only "interesting" ultimates; and those last two mostly because they're janky damage bombs that can be used in different ways than just "i kill your team with my Q button"
Honestly, Ironman's ult is just throwing a Dva bomn and hoping it hits something
Psylocke, Starlord, Punisher, Mr. Fantastic, Jeff (debatable), Adam Warlock, Peni, Captain America (kind of in the camp of "this chuck has an aura"), Magik, Hawkeye, Hela, Hulk, Venom, Wolverine, Iron Fist, and to certain extent Bucky. Are all ults that are (for some) slightly varied in their approaches (and for others) completely different to the two categories you mentioned. Jeff is kind of a damage bomb, if you can find a ledge. Psylocke can really only kill a single person and can be killed out of it since it doesn't do all the damage at once. Starlord and Punisher, you just have to not be in their sight line to avoid it, and they take awhile to start up so if you are paying attention and are properly positioned then you can avoid them (and they both can be killed out of it). Mr. Fantastic is actually one of the worst ults in the game, but it is very funny to bounce around (can be killed out of it). Adam's is a party rez. Peni's is just a further extension of her regular abilities (can be killed out of it). Captain America is a last longer ult but doesn't guarantee safety. Magik is just a damage buff, but can easily be killed out of it. Hawkeye's ult is functionally a damage bomb ult because he is just a powerful character to begin with, but it takes skill to aim and doesn't guarantee kills (also can be killed out of it). Hela's ult doesn't kill instantly but you can't really kill her out of it, as she as so much hp when in it, but functionally can be considered a damage bomb. Hulk increases his damage and health, decreases his cd and gives the ability to throw someone around like a towel. Venom's gives him more survivability but in no way is an instant kill. Wolverine's is really only a damage bomb if you charge up enough rage. Iron Fist is just his regular stuff but increased (can be killed out of it). Finally, Bucky's ult doesn't kill anyone instantly but can snowball into a damage bomb very quickly depending on the skill of the user (can be killed in between reusing ults). "interesting" ults is a very subjective thing, but seeing as you put Rocket's as an "interesting" ult, many of them seem to fit into that category. Not to mention many of them can be cc'd out of it briefly.
edit: added some more context for punisher and starlord ults
Agree, very lazy design on the ultimates, very few take skill, they are just press q to win buttons.
@@Shrimp4Gura at least you have to aim it, you have to be in a good position and there is a lot of risk
Something like storm ults doesn't require good positioning, aim and doesn't come with any risk
Support in general is a little boring in this game, because heal botting is the most efficient way to win. DPS is so much more fun to play and its basically all I play in rivals, and thats coming from a support main from ow.
thats bc ow supps are dps that can also heal on the side
Agreed
@@supermarkethobo9567bro have you seen the dmg supports do in rivals? Your comment is actually braindead
Supporting in rivals is a blast and in diamond + people are fighting for the role. I constantly have 3 people in my lobbies who want to heal. Also you can do good damage on a lot of different supports. Mantis is basically a dps with heals overtime.Jeff can flank and carry like the top Jeff’s do. Luna can head shot and I get kills with her all game. Loki with 3 clones can kill squishies In a few seconds and sue who constantly does damage and can make big plays with her pull. Cloak can 1v3 in his ult. But with saying all that, the healing ults are too broken but I can’t I agree that supports aren’t fun or “efficient”.
@@supermarkethobo9567Supports do a lot of damage in Rivals, it just depends on the comp you're running. In triple support comps 2 of the supports can definitely pump out a lot of damage, mantis,cloak,Jeff all can do 20k damage a game depending on the map
5:37 I agree. Marvel Rivals needs to change, and the first and foremost one is my food is here.
I guess they need to:
Crank down the duration a bit
Crank down the healing a bit
Crank up the ult cost by like 1.5x
I expect they will do only one of those three things next patch.
the problem is if they make support feel unfun ppl will just stop playing support. we need more supports before nerfing them or to change/balance parts of their kits all together
@@jh44rellI really doubt you'd see that many people stop playing a character over a few seconds getting cut off one of the strongest ults in the game. Luna honestly just needs 2 seconds off the timer, no need to nerf heals.
then it will make dps op. only things that is letting dps in check is sup ult
@LordXavier79 Just a smidge off the top, nothing drastic.
@@marcosrodriguez.9753 well that prob not, but the comment was suggesting more than that
I find it funny how its only the tourists who are fine with this type of meta and only the people that actually want to stay and keep playing game are complaining about it
True they just can’t stand doing it over and over again so they kinda got bored but for us who are playing 2h a week find it funny cause that’s what every ultimate should look like
@@Noone-iw7es no way it is fun for anyone waiting for 50 secs for sup ults to end so u can actually start playing a game (probably u have 20-30 sec window before cloak builds her ult again and cycle continues)
I hope this is sarcastic cause this comment reads redarded as hell otherwise.
"it's funny, the people that played the game and then quit don't mind the meta" yeah they don't play the game anymore so they don't care.
@@measlesplease1266 what I'm talking about is people who don't want the meta to change to keep it as bad as it is because they now they will just leave and the ones that stay will still have to deal with the horrible meta
@ oh pkay, the way you typed it seemed to be against the people playing it lol
Overwatch fixed these types of comps (dive, goats, double shield) by adding something that made them unplayable (brig, role que, 5v5). This did change the meta but just made more problems for the game and doesn't address the core issue, just pushes it out of the way. I really hope that Netease takes the time to understand how to fix this without a bandaid solution like Overwatch.
“Necros dies, but he’s always dead” 💀 🤣
I feel like CnD ult feels long because there are practically 2 timers on that ult. One is the time it gets to put those four lines down and then there is 8 seconds (I believe) of all lines being active. Instead of making a semi dps strategist like Adam Warlock they made another Luna/Mantis by mistake
(13:56)Match starts at 4 minutes, they start building ult at 3:38 starting at 8% charge. At 3:19 the ult is complete, this means that cloak and dagger got their ult in 19 seconds after being in combat. That is insane.
Is the problem with triple support or is the problem with the highest tier of players min maxing the game? Thoughts?
It’s a skill issue they are not flexible enough to figure out what beats 3sup and above diamond it’s only like 2-300 ppl and less per rank so they are playing the same one tricks over and over again the innovation is in the lower ranks I seen a powered up hulk (by rocket) kill cd while she was in her ult TWICE I’ve seen a powered up Bucky kill luna ult with the grab uppercut head shot like these ults can die but streamers only play the “meta” they have created where is groot where is rocket where is iron man or scarlet witch who can kill through all 3 ults stacked on top of each others lol
@@Onechanzetolive I'm kinda on board with too early to call for nerfs. Like pull out the Iron man or punisher that can kill through these ults
@@ErkBlackflame exactly iron man can literally just be in the game to counter those ults but they only play him with hulk haha
@@ErkBlackflameOne of the easiest ults to block, I mostly play tanks and I don't remember a single time an Ironman ult go through me
2:57 kayjii got his ult a minute and like 3 seconds after his previous ult😭 that’s insane
I agree that at least most support ults need to take longer to charge at least
So does some dps ult charge like storm moonknight psy
@@Jaguar-Hamm moonknights ult is annoying because most characters in the game can either super easily escape it or have absolutely no chance of getting away unless they are on the edge
@@Jaguar-Hamm I don’t think psylocke ult is really that strong
@@Jaguar-Hammmoon knights ult is glitched. Literally does double the damage it should. Storm I agree, they should nerf the ult
Moonknight ult is stupid since it goes before the audio cue so if you are close to the center and not a tank you have no chances to even use abilities to dodge
Luna, Cloack, Invis ult: press Q to make your team invincible
Adam:
-Wait for your teammates to die
-Ult in time before they respawn
-Find a safe enough place so that you don't get cancelled or get your team in a vulnerable position
-be close enough to your team corpses
-have heal to back up their whimsy 100hp res
-track Bucky's ultimate to not get clip farmed
XD true
I think a alternative would be to crank the energy costs of Al lot of these ults to 4000-5000. That way it becomes more of a strategic resource that can't be thrown out every minute.
That would nerf 2/2/2 even more as the 2 DPS would obliterate teams in a much easier manner with only 2 supports that would get their charges at a slower rate than even DPS (currently DPS are overall around 3750).
@ fair point, although I think most supports could use a increase to their ult energy cost. You should not be able to cycle immortality the way you currently can
Yeah you nailed it, support ult uptimes are too high and the character abilities need to be more unique. I enjoyed the overhead game perspective you showed while you talked. Much easier to see exactly what you were talking about.
I feel like Jeff could solve this problem
On a real note I have noticed FEW Jeff’s but when I have they always ult as soon as cloak finished and eats them off the ult . And wastes time .
Jeff can't solve it cuz he can't eat them during ult and he dies instantly in dia+.
If they remove cc Immunity on them it might actually solve it. Same treatment as Iron Man and Scarlet Witch.
Yeah a lot of jeff lately in gm rank think it's a underrated choice
This is where flanking and forcing support ult comes into play. With characters like psylocke and venom/spidey it seems like they didnt intend on the game loop to be a pure battle of sustain.
"ULTS AGAINST THE WORLD!" "SUPPORTS ARE UNDEFEATABLE "
Luna + Loki + C&D is 36 sec of continuous ultimates.
If you use C&D first, odds are you will almost have ult again by the time your supports are done. rotation.
Okay but that one time someone did a 6 Vanguard vs 6 Duelist vs 6 Strategist the Duelists won, so clearly they're the broken ones and we gotta nerf all their damage
Having 6 duelists =/= to playing a balanced team. His healing shit would be even more of an issue if dps had a damage nerf.
@Voodoo_Occasions that's the joke... I was joking
tbf most of the people that played in that were dps mains so i think its safe to say the results are inconclusive at best. (i know your joking im just putting this out there)
The joke would work if people weren't seriously making points like yours.
1:43 “and now everybody’s undefeatable”
Welcome to marvel rivals
Triple support is not good this is literally a community problem 2-2-2 has the highest win rate and nothing else is >50%. If you play triple support into triple support you’re part of the problem. Just play characters that can kill through it.
So they can just pick broken characters while i have to coordinate with my team to setup 2 ults at once and execute it with no errors just so the opponents can use their ults again next fight. Like the gold opinion is shining through this one. 40% of high elo games are gonna be tripple support soon if no nerf happens.
3 support is not the whole problem tho, 80% of the problem is infinite value for doing so little and how easy it is to play support and farm ults, its an individual support issue not the 2 1 3 comp.
Or they could just nerf the clearly busted OP ultimates and no one would run 3 supports.
Literally yesterday we went groot moon Bucky iron man into a GOOD 3 support but groot ult plus any of those ults = death to squishies and that’s all we did haha
@@R1L1. bro this is not an opinion it’s facts you can look at the statistics yourself 2-2-2 has the highest win rate in every elo. The problem with triple support is that it has no win condition except for stalling out fights. Also no you don’t HAVE to set up a combo. There’s characters that can kill through support ults by themselves like Ironman doctor strange and moon knight
@@RickyCigarillo except the roles are balanced. Just because the community THINKS something is good doesn’t mean it actually is. If they nerf supports when they’re not actually broken it could have unforeseen consequences. 2-2-2 is still the best comp
Maybe nerf cooldowns the more of an role is on a team? Like with 1 and 2 its normal, but with 3 it get nerfed by 20%.
Cool idea but also that messes with people’s learning of the character and memorizing cooldowns and ability cycling. But if it means people won’t run triple support I’d be all for it
I had the same idea.
I have a good idea for countering triple support. Winter soldier ult does 100 dmg and reduces a target's max health by 20%. This makes it far easier to one shot someone through a support ult. The problem is the bucky mark lasts a short amount of time, so you need a pretty coordinated team to focus the person who got bucky ulted. 20% puts a 250 health character at 200 hp and a 275 health at 220. Idk if this could actually be effective but it's just an idea that I've been stewing on for a bit
If you take away support ults, the game will just devolve into cycling through team wipe ults.
They should greatly increase charge time for all ults.
Also don't balance the game for the 0,01%.
Adding anti heal to strange e in my opinion would fix it BUT make him giga S tier
He already is giga S tier lol but they definitely need an anti heal in this game
Add it to rocket ult would be nice
You can't just add an anti heal to 1 character, that would instantly make them a must pick/ban every game which wouldn't fix the issue at all.
That's what I don't want to see.
Don't try to fix an overall problem with one heros ability.
Strange gets banned, what's then?
@@alexm.6557 just A+ tier because supports are giga S tier
Whenever i see those heal ults. I feel like okay its done time to fall back because there is no point trying to fight for point because they are not gonna die
Personal Patch Notes (Give Input)
Buffs:
Black Panther: A- -> A+/S
A. Revert Reduced health after refreshing Vibranium Marks from 40 to 30, and the upper limit from 120 to 75.
B. Fix bug where dash hit doesn’t register
Adam Warlock: A- -> A+/S
A. Decrease cooldown on “Soul Bond” by 5 seconds
B. Add additional charge of “Avatar Life Stream”
Rocket Raccoon: B -> A-
A. Projectiles fired from “Bombard Mode” are now hitscan
B. 10% of the amplified damage done by Allies within range of the “C.Y.A.” Is converted to shield for the individual damage dealer
Venom: B -> A/A+
A. “Cellular Corrosion” now prevents enemies under its effect from using movement abilities
B. “Venom Swing” can longer be interrupted on start-up and during cast
Peni Parker: B- -> B+/A-
A. “Baby DVA form” - if peni does not die in the time it takes for a death timer she can Re-Mech
B. “Cyberbond” can be used to pull a target to peni’s location and move peni to the targets original location if used in this way cooldown increases to 12 sec
Captain America: C -> B+/A-
A. Allies within 5m of enemies hit by “Sentinel Strike” projectiles gain 5 over-health
B. “Freedom Charge” increases Captain America damage by 10%
C. Enemies hit by “Liberty Rush” are stunned for .25 seconds additionally Allies within 5m of a target stunned by “Liberty Rush” gain 20 over-health
Jeff the Land Shark: C -> B/B+
A. Revert Jeff ultimate change and healing done to allies is distributed evenly to enemies as damage dealt upon consumption
B. “Oblivious Cuteness” now makes Jeff the land shark immune to critical hits
C. Increase health from 250 -> 275
Iron Fist: D -> B/B+
A. Increase Health from 250 -> 300
B. Anytime Iron fist touches a surface regain all charges of “Crane Leap”
Black Widow: D -> B+/A-
A. “Widow Bite Batons” now apply a “venom” stack (max 3 stacks)
- Venom Stacks deal 3 dps and slow a targets move speed by 5%
B. Electro-plasma Explosion:
- Increased damage from 120-170 -> 150-200 1.5sec for full charge
- “Electro-plasma Explosion” now ignores the benefits of bubbles and shields
C. “Fleet Foot” is no longer tied to a resource and can be toggled indefinitely
D. “Widows Jump” black widow can double jump every 6 seconds
Scarlet Witch: D -> B/B+
A. Reality Erasure:
- Scarlett Witch is CC immune while channeling
- Upon cast Scarlet Witch is healed to full health additionally gains 100 over-health to a maximum of 375
B. Scarlet Witch can now be healed during “Mystic Projection”
C. Scarlet Witch max health increased from 250->275
Hawkeye: A -> S
A. “Archers Focus” can charge from up to 60m away
Spider-Man: B- -> B+
A. Spider-Man can cancel downward punch animation with uppercut ability
B. Reduce “Web Swing” cooldown by 1 second
Mr. Fantastic: B - B+/A-
A. Brainiac Bounce increase damage on all leaps by 20 from 50 - 100 -> 70 - 120
B. Mr. Fantastic transform at max elasticity faster
Nerfs:
Luna Snow: S
A. Health Reduced from 275->250
B. Fate of Both Worlds:
- On cast Luna Snow is cleansed of all CC effects for .25 second
- Luna Snow is no longer immune to the effects of CC, CCs will not stop the channeling of her ultimate ability
- Decrease Healing from 250/s -> 200/s
- Reduce ult timer from 12s -> 10s
Mantis: S
A. “Spore Slumber” is now a single target ability, additionally target hit by spore slumber can no longer be awoken by Allies
B. Soul Resurgence
- On cast Mantis is cleansed of all CC effects for .25 second
- Mantis is no longer immune to the effects of CC, CCs will not stop the channeling of her ultimate ability
- Reduced healing from 150/s -> 80/s
- Allies damage is boosted by 15%
- Allies movement speed is increased by 1.5m/s
- Ally attack speed is increased by 15%
C. Health reduced from 275->250
Cloak and Dagger: S
A. Reduce “Eternal Bond” Healing from 220/s -> 120/s
B. Increase time to gain ultimate
Invisible Woman: S
A. Health reduced from 275->250
B. Reduce “Invisible Boundary” healing from 165/s -> 120/s additionally non-ability based projectiles are blocked by “Invisible boundary” barrier
Storm: S
A. Increase time to gain ultimate
Namor: S
A. “Frozen Spawn” has equivalent stats to “Monstro Spawn”
B. Namor summons target the closest enemy with the highest total health pool additionally when Namor hits a target within summon range it will override target priority to last enemy hit by Namor trident
Hela: S
A. Hela can now be damaged and healed while channeling “Astral Flock”
What a way to 💩 the bed.
Whenever he said "Cloak and Dagger Ult". I felt that.
It’s less of a problem in lower Elo (I’m Diamond - would still consider that just pretty good) and it’s beatable. In GM plus though where stacks of good players are on constant comms it becomes busted.
the winrate for the comp in Celestial is also at 47% wr currently...but the main issue is just due to how unfun it could become instantly
maybe the strat for mitigating overbearing healing output is to reduce healing output per strategist on the team.
like, for a number of strategists 'x', say their outgoing healing is multiplied by 2/(x+1). a single support would do all of their currently listed healing, but having a second means both supports do two-thirds the healing, and having three supports means each does half the healing.
this kind of formula could be tweaked pretty easily. (a+1)/(x+a) for some non-negative real choice of 'a'. for all choices of 'a', f(1) always equals 1, which is to say a single support on a team will always put out listed healing values. but smaller choices of 'a' will penalize stacking supports more, while larger choices penalize it less.
if this meta was really as hated as everyone leads us to believe they’d ban luna cd mantis inv-woman every match
Yep I still see insta hulk and Logan bans lol
Probably because each team only gets two bans and no game is gonna waste 4 bans on most of the support cast, _just to make a point._
@ why not tho? You hate Logan you ban Logan and deal with who becomes stronger because of it lol if they really wanted a game with Loki Adam as healers they could create it but they don’t because then dps would rule and they would get exposed
I think people are brainwashed to ban whatever their youtubers are banning. I bet most haven't even seen a good hulk/iron man in a WHILE, but will insta ban then and then lose to idk, moon knight or shit that they actually can't beat but never ban.
@@azie4779its a problem if they actually meet a good strange and iron man. Strange can literally 1 shot squishies and a good iron man would be annoying as fuck. Its a gamble, but its an understandable gamble
A few things I’ve picked up in low ranks (Bronze-Plat) to help with triple support since we don’t have bans.
1.Wolverine is really good at pulling people out of invincibility zones.
2. Storm can solo Mantis out of ult if she doesn’t miss and the dps buff to the whole team is huge
3. Scarlet & Magneto work amazing together. Mag can snipe CnD out of ult, and shield Scarlet for her Ult and you can’t out heal being vaporized.
4. Jeff the Shark is good in 3v3 support. The game will most likely go into overtime and being able to grab everyone off is game winning.
5. Most importantly always assume their supports have ult.
I'm more concerned about the supports actually surviving enough to do these ults properly than talking about how much fights are decided through support ults. Yeah, and that's in GM lobbies too. I agree that support ults should be the one to swing fights, but isn't this why backline pressure and dive are important?
Dive is worthless in rivals.
Backlines have tools like cloak dash, luna freeze, mantis stun. Mid ranged DPS like bucky and punisher have extremely good tools vs divers. Peni makes it completely hell to be near the point and forces you to expose yourself to break the generator while having a short CD stuns.
And the snipers? They both have a melee antidive ability.
The closest thing to diving you can do is try to brawl and chase the supps as soon as there's an opening.
And even then with 3 supps the enemy team could decide to play multires and have mantis/Adam/rocket so you might need to kill the fuckass mantis up to 4 times in a single fight.
Supps are just too strong
You cant dive in this game, every support has either insta kill you cc,a 5 second cooldown escape button,or an insta heal. The only dive character vaguely worth playing is panther and even then he just farms support ults for the enemy team most of the time
@@rensmasteredarchives6796 You cannot be serious lmao. Skill issue if you think dive is worthless fr
You're exactly right. Dive is def a way to counter, if you go behind and kill the supp, they dont get their ults. Very simple. Anyone saying "you can't dive in this game" cannot be serious lol there are full dive comps 😅😅😅
@ DIve is so good that it does not exist from Diamond 2 onward. At most you get a single guy flanking, but he is a liability because teams actually stay together, turn around and shoot him. You can hide in Narnia behind 78 walls and wait for one supp to be distracted and maybe get a full combo, yes, but while you were AFK waiting for a chance to show itself, the enemy was playing 6v5 and your team was getting their asshole blown out.
I'd really like to see you try to play dive into Storm\Punisher or triple support in fucking GM. All you are is an ult battery for Cloak And Dagger or Luna.
Oh and if you're great at your character, like really great and skilled, guess what? The enemy team will recognize your name because of the smaller playerbase and go "Those guys have a psylocke main, ban her" at round start or shit like that.
Hulk is the best dive tank and is virtually banned from every match to avoid boosting Iron Man and Strange to S tier.
personally i think everything should have a counter, being able to counter a support ult needs to be a thing.
This dude always looked like he ate a knuckle sandwich and/or just cried.
thank you for speaking up. Either they fix this or the game stagnates
I think the solution is to give all the ults a burst heal/shield at the start and reduce strength of the heal over time afterwords (so they still function as a counter to massive damage/can save the team, but don’t bring the game to a screeching halt
I like that wow
That is pretty dumb. Why not also have DPS deal less damage after every hit?
@@Isaac-eh6uu because DPS aren’t shutting down the game state with their ults, they’re progressing it.
Even though it’s rhetorical that’s a dumb question.
So glad to see someone cover this, anytime i get a 3 supports game when no one dies i just get depressed
TF2 has this system where Medic heals more the relative to the time that has passed since the target player has taken dmg. Something like this could be implemented for these ult, so that whoever is being focused can be taken out. Basically: You dmg someone and they receive less healing for like 2 seconds, making heroes with low dmg but high atk speed viable against these ults
What a stupid idea
@ Claire we adults like to defend our opinions. Would you like to defend yours?
I think the healing-over-time effects should be halved, but keep the one time big heal so the ultimate is more of a "panic fully heal all nearby teammates once" button rather than "your teammates cannot die for X seconds"
a support with a junkerqueen type ult would be cool and a nano boost type ult would be sick too
The healing value of the support ults isn’t a problem. They need to be that way to counter DPS ults.
It’s the frequency of them that’s the issue.
Just increase their cost and lower the duration by 1 or 2 seconds. Or just make them last the same amount of time as Hela’s ultimate
Punisher+ Rocket ults can kill through Luna\CD\Mantis, iron man can just one shot people through anything. I agree that this level of gameplay is very boring but there is "ways" around it
They need to make the ults versatily, stuff like giving CC immunity to counter certain ults, maybe Mantis with complete invincibility, but a smaller radius and shorter duration, luna ult with a better damage buff and a weaker heal
What does CC mean? ive heard that term being thrown around recently
@JorgeRodriguez-po1fy Crowd Control, basically anything like slows, stuns and the likes. Basically anything that lets you control or limit the movement of an enemy.
And so it begins
The dev said they don't want this game to be a role focused game, but more like a hero focused game. Where regardless of the role, you play because of the hero.
Offensive ults are just as strong lol
Ah, yeee for sure wich dps/tank ults also last around 12-16 seconds and builds in 35/40 sec?
Which DPS ult lasts 12 seconds, or can be charged in 20 seconds?
If that was the case then let's just use DPS ults to kill supports! Oh wait, only iron man and moon knight can kill any support in ult, the rest are SOL
@@muzzypwnyouNamor, Hawkeye, Magneto, Thor, Punisher?
Also if you focus the healer who's ulting with different abilities/ultimates you can oneshot them.
There is counterplay vs supp ults ppl are just to blinded complaining than learning the game.
Also you can combo a lot of ultimates (like mk for example) with groot ultimate and wipe the enemy team even when under a defensive ult
@@michele6241 the classic dps Thor and magneto, how could I forget them!
I have full confidence they will change the impact and the charge it takes to farm support ults very soon. They seem to have full engagement and purpose to keep their players and/or grow the community more. They have done a great job. Mistakes can be fixed. The game is fantastic and i’m optimistic about the future
Why hasn't the meta adjusted to run DPS with instakill ults?
Like obviously triple support is going to outlast 2x2x2 teams with reliable in-meta DPS picks like Storm, Hela, and Star Lord.
So why not switch to Iron Man for that scenario? Or even Scarlet Witch? I know she's a low ELO joke hero, but wouldn't she directly counter a team stacking inside a Mantis or Luna chainult? A good Jeff ult into SW ult would demolish triple strategist.
The counters are out there but because these characters are considered low-tier, everyone just complains about support being too strong instead of strategizing around them.
Switch to scarlet witch to fight triple support ? 😂 that the worst idea i have ever seen 😂
@@daodung7874 Jeff ult spitting into Scarlet Witch ult is basically a guaranteed teamwipe. Even the developers use that combo themselves. Especially if the enemy team is grouping up on the point.
I'm not saying Jeff or SW are great picks in comp. I know they're two of the least-picked heroes at the top level, but SW's ult can be useful as part of a one-two punch for countering this specific team comp.
My point is, the *best Rivals players in the world* seem to be hamstrung by tier lists that they don't consider picking any hero that isn't in-meta. Remember how nobody even bothered trying Wolverine because he was labeled F-tier, and now he's top tier even without significant changes?
Every hero in this game has some sort of counter (even the supports). Triple support is obviously strong, but I wish people would actually try using the existing counters before crying for a nerf.
Supports *are* strong right now, but using terms like "unkillable" and "invulnerable" are just an excuse for not trying to adapt.
Or they could just nerf the stupid broken stuff like Lunas ult. The answer is to not have broken 12 second near invincibility, the answer is not swap 2 scarlet witch.
The reason why is basically it takes too much effort for the rewards especially for ranked, where people just want to play their heroes. Also triple strat still has 3 other people to counter pick the enemy. Like two of the most popular tanks can counter Ironman ult with shield and mag also has his ult. DPS picks can also counter the other DPS or just pick off enemy support before the enemy dps get ult if they aren't mirroring 3 strat. Not impossible but certainly much harder than mirroring the comp
I'm all for a Luna ult duration nerf. I think it's healthier for the game. And I'm sure a nerf is coming in the future.
But yes, I am saying the answer is to swap. Not saying Scarlet Witch should be the ONLY answer, but SWAPPING, in general, is how triple strategists should be stopped. Top players should be adapting to the meta, not begging the developers to patch the game so they don't have to play lower-tier characters.
The only reason triple strategists became a thing is because the devs decided to build a competitive hero shooter without role queue. It encourages every team to hyper-optimize cheese comps until we have an arms race to optimize all the fun out of the game.
I just think it's a bad habit for top players to tell developers what to do when the counters for strategies already exist in the game. This is like people saying the NBA should move the 3-point-line back because 3pters are too easy now... when there is already a counter to 3-point threats-a superior defense. Yet people would rather try to change the rules than change up their strategy.
I have no idea why some people think cloak is any less than A tier, especially with their buffed ult. That change NEEDS to revert
You know there is a good reason a certain other game added more anti heal, taking 5-7 business days to kill someone in a shooter tends to be really boring.
It feels like the devs designed themselves into a corner here. While nerfing ult charge and duration is definitely a good start, it most likely will only mitigate the issue instead of solving it. Hitting the perfect balance between support ults make you invincible vs dps ults kill you instantly is almost impossible. You know either you live or you die not much breathing room.
Seems like a fundamental issue with the design philosophy of just make everything op and try and balance with bans.
Hot take incoming but a gameplay loop of spamming rock paper scissors style ults get boring and unfun really quickly.
It's not that complicated. DPS ults can be dodged, waited out, killed. Literally the exact opposite of what support ults can do.
I think if they added diminishing returns on the ultimates for most of the broken supports it would be better. It would encourage timing more and nerf the sustain as well.
People really think anti heal will fix this dumb meta? These ults last for 10~ seconds or more.
I stopped playing this game and went back to overwatch because you can actually kill enemies instead of having 2 to 3 supports gatekeeping the whole server from having fun.
You can kill them through ults with the right ult combo/Teamup.
Mag can kill cloak ult. Groot+moon/namor can kill Luna ult. Iron man ult. Strange+hulk Teamup can kill through support ults if timed correctly.
There are counters it's just too composition specific. All they need to do is reduce Luna ult duration and the time it takes for them to get support ults.
lol what? If you are not a trash dps you can easily get 20+ games a game. get gud
@@RJAI think that’s the problem if you need a ult combo to kill someone because of one supp ult ,that isn’t good
@realbadhunter6165 having counters is good. Nerfing support ults too hard would mean DPS ults like punisher and Storm would be free kills.
@@RJA that's the problem
DPS ULT do too much damage so supp ults need to counter them or they will always get team kills
Since supp ults counter them it means all other damage isn't relevant and the people become immortal
It's a unbalanced messy cycle
Support ults are honestly ruining this game at least in higher elo, this meta is soooo boring, everyone is unkillable. Marvel rivals have to do something about this, if not I fear this game will lose a LOT of players
Streamers always find a way to complain. When you play something for 10 hours a day of course you will see the cracks. I don’t want nerfs. I don’t want MR to be hyper competitive. Go back to OW2 if that’s what you need. I need a casual fun shooter I can play with my son.
What he's saying would make the game objectively better for everyone. I'm a support main and I don't play in high tier. I get so tired that in the 2 hours at best I have to play it's luna/mantis/cnd/invisible every single game with no variety. Constantly waiting for these ultimates to quit so we can play again. It is like this in freaking quick play.
How would tripple supports being worse make the game less fun to play with your son? Worse support ults objectively means you get to make more plays and have more fun
My proposed Luna ultimate rework; she starts dancing 💃 and her snowflake is applied to all allies within range, giving them a slight damage buff and shared healing. She can still fight and move normally while dancing. Whenever she heals an ally, all teammates with the snowflake also receive healing, and damage dealt by snowflaked allies is also applied as healing to the rest of the group. If nothing else we need these supports ultimates to be more proactive and less “press Q to pause the game for your enemies”
Honestly Loki lamp needs to be fucking removed man, GM1 atm and it being a pseudo ult on a 30 second cooldown is just so criminal, supports need a 10-15% increase on their ult charge bare minimum, I’m solo tanking every game because every loser and their mother wants a free ride playing support, 3-4 support mains per team
Oh and why the fuck do we not have an Ana anti grenade type ability… human torch better have something like that
@@RomanBishop2Kdisagree cause thats just a bandaid fix doesnt solve anything cause now you will ban them instead of banning the supports anti heal shouldn’t be a thing in the game cause now you add anti heal you make tanks boring to play.
Everything about Loki is visual clutter cancer
@@whambulance8607 amen
@@Notwedsquid well it doesn’t seem like they wanna go the nerf ult charge route so it’s anti heal or bust, even if it’s just a 2-3 second anti heal duration, it means you can combo it with ults and not wanna scream when you pop groot ult and they go “PUTTING ON A SHOW” and nothing happens for 12 seconds, followed by Loki copying it and doing an encore
Another really busted thing is shields with the support ults. Its so hard to actually even use a one shot on them when theres a big ass strange shield, magneto shields, magneto bubbles, groot walls, hulk shields etc. Closest thing is probably punisher ult since he can break all but mag shield but unless he has a supp ult keeping him up, he is just dying before he gets a kill through shields/ults.
They just need to change Support Ults to do like half or even less healing than they currently do
They should push breakpoints on damage, like the healing applied should require Hela to land 3 projectiles in her Ult, or Star-Lord one extra clip
Cloak and Dagger shouldnt even heal, it should be the heal up + damage up effect on the floor
this would make dps too strong, you're not accounting for how much damage dps ults can dish out. the most reasonable solution is to let supports keep their overpowered ults making them feel impactful. but to nerf to ult charge and make the ult last for less time. this would allow for counterplay and make supports actually think about when to ult instead of just ulting whenever because it lasts for so long making you win the fight and the fact that you can get a second ult in less than a minute
@Mlyodas Eh, not really
You can shutdown most Tank/DPS Ults without using another Ult
Either damage, CC, LOS, healing, defensive, general positioning
If one is too much of an issue, then nerf is directly
Turn ult healing into burst rather than continuous, making them vulnerable to more than just oneshots and making overlapped ults less of a detriment and potentially a strategy.
It begins. The inevitable turn on rivals. I knew these streamers and their cretins would eventually start moaning about the game and requesting things that they need in the game
It happened quicker than I thought
Watch them perpetually moan like they did with OW in a few months' time
The honeymoon period in Overwatch was over a year
We're what, 2 months into rivals? Lmao
Hilarious
Right like wtf we are ALREADY complaining that the support are too strong??? Every single hero shooter this happens lmao. The support could be totally counterable or even completely ass and they would still say the problem is support lol but like why should the top 0.1% get to speak for what happens to the game over everyone else anyways
They should double the needed points to charge their ultimates and reduce time by like 10%. I think that would fix it and they would still be very powerful
IMO Necros and you are the only opinions/takes the devs should NEVER care about :]
Based
Hell no, remember when they were wrong about Wolverine? It ended up getting buffed for this season and it's banned in every single match. They said the same about Mr. Fantastic and people slowly started to show his potential. The points Bogur mentioned in this video are valid and I agree with him, but that doesn't make them the most reliable source to balance heroes because everyone is biased and entitled to their own opinion.