TTA Podcast 295: Buddhism
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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Is Buddhism a religion? A philosophy? Both? Something else? Many Buddhist organizations - physical and online - promote it as a way of "finding peace within oneself.
What about atheists who are Buddhists? Is this a spiritual journey, or a method for framing a physical one?
LINKS:
David G. McAfee on Buddhism: davidgmcafee.w...
Stephen Batchelor: www.stephenbatc...
No Religion Required podcast: noreligionrequ...
This was a great show! I'm an atheist and practicing buddhist and I'm very happy on how much research, effort and great guest you brought this time, Seth!
I've lived in Southeast Asia for 25+ years and the one thing you can say about Buddhist (my wife among them) is that I have never had a single one try and convert me or even bring up the subject in conversation. Buddhisms has its share of fundies, cons and warts like any other religion but, with the exception of Jainism, is the most peaceful and accepting of any other I've encountered throughout the world. I even had an interesting conversation with a Thai senior monk who felt that atheists could be Buddhist. Not sure his argument totally convinced me but I was impressed the head of a religious order had even given thought to atheism let alone tried to allow us into the fold.
John Fargo Well, you can pretty much be a Buddhist as long as you follow the eightfold path and the four noble truths. The thing about Buddhism is that it wouldn't change much if the bodhisattvas, buddhas, and the, err, supernatural aspects of Buddhism were removed, completely. The main focus of Buddhism is the Dharma.
You've never been approached by Nichiren Buddhists?
Because, its you who has to seek. Not the other way.
Buddhism is really a non-problem when you compare it to the other big religions, I've never found any real problem with the majority of Buddhist practises. Let's put it this way if we could convert all Muslims and Christians to Buddhists the world would immediately become a safer and overall better place.
All religions are really a non-problem when you compare it to the Abrahamic religions. Buddhism is a typical religion. The Abrahamic ones are the atypical ones. E.g. most religions have no concept of salvation.
My favorite religion is practiced by tribes in Venezuela, and perhaps other places in South America. They believe the gods are evil. How could they not? Pretty much everything in nature tries to kill them. They survive by banding together against the gods. They do not know murder.
The Primate sure, i agree, but isn't poor critical thinking the enemy? A false belief, no matter how pleasant leads to woo.
Give me an examaple of buddhist terrorist. Dont just make up a statement.
A terrorist is a person who uses unlawful, violent intimidation against another or group of people usually for political gain. This kind of thing has been done by almost every group of people on earth. However, this kind of unlawful, violent intimidation is more prevalent in the middle east and western world. In the history of Buddhism, there is no war fought in the name of Buddhist or for the purpose of spreading Buddhism.
You haven't proven anything. I don't want to waste my time. There are reasons why Buddhism appeal to more and more people. There is little anyone can do to prevent that .
At least Buddhism doesn't throw its beliefs in your face and try to beat you down until you believe like other religion.
Are you sure?
That is not an opinion, but a fact. Christianity and Islam, or simply the Abrahamic, are outlier religions. Buddhism is a much more typical religion.
In the Abrahamic religions, you either believe in God or you are evil. My way or go to hell.
Buddhism, like most religions, is indifferent to belief. Buddhism is a guide, a helping hand. But if you can find the path to enlightenment on your own, more power to you.
Buddhists consider Jesus a Buddha. Buddha is burning in hell according to Christianity.
Christianity is about being a good Christian. Buddhism is about being a good person.
Well you haven't met some Japanese Buddhist priest.
Buddha says I discovered the way of life by spending lot of time. It is not an easy thing to learn very easily. It is totally up to you to decide whether you follow it or not. If you like to learn you have to use your intelligent mind.
(I tried to make you understand by my own word to express what he tried to say)
I like what you say "My way or go to hell", Buddha says you can decide where to go, It depends on the good and bad things you do.
I'm a meditator and it's improved my life.
Thanks, Seth, for finally doing a show on Buddhism. I am an atheist. One of the most influential dharma talks I heard in my study of Buddhism was on the Kalama Sutta, in which the Buddha advocates for free inquiry and logical reasoning rather than dogma, scripture, rumor, tradition, or indoctrination as taught by most religions. Following buddha's advice, I have never accepted concepts like karma, reincarnation, or the stories of gods, supernatural powers, or past lives as anything more than expressions of creative human imagination. I have continued regular mindfulness meditation practice as a mind-training and relaxation technique, not inconsistent with atheism. Buddhism has a ton of canonical texts, but I recommend people who want to learn about it start with the Kalama Sutta and then the 4 Noble Truths. You don't have to label yourself "buddhist" to get something useful from what Buddha taught.
What I find most compelling and fascinating about Buddhism is how it essentially arose as a response to the heavily rigid, heavily dogmatic Brahmanic beliefs and practices that stratified society so arbitrarily and unfairly for so long. It's kinda hard to imagine in the whole zeitgeist of that era that there would arise a movement that was egalitarian (having shunned the caste system), rational (having encouraged skepticism and disfavored the dogmatic passing-on of knowledge) and peaceful (having shunned violence for personal gain). Shame that the powers that be later threw Theraveda Buddhism out of India and relegated it to pockets of southeast Asia. In my opinion, most Mahayana denominations distort the simplicity and clarity of the old school and inject way too much of the local syncretic supernatural and superstitious beliefs.
your profile pic is hilarious!
Edwin I cannot agree with you more. How this religion/philosophy achieved to be so progressive within the time frame of its conception baffles me. Ive practiced over 20 yrs now and have benefited from it. I am an atheist before practicing and i still am. i really do not practice anymore yet i still have reverence for it. I find stoicism to be more to my liking.
Buddhism does not threaten people into submission....and it is very different for a lay person.....its the one religion I connect to....it s not dark and scary.....in fact it helps me calm my mind....the story does nt matter a lot.....but it s great 4 me.....
He's saying PEOPLE use it and find loopholes to be terrible things. Many cults do the same with the bible.
The thing is, one needs to understand the "religious" and "superstitious" and "mythological" aspects of Buddhism is a product of historical and cultural backgrounds from which Buddhism originated from. It has its core roots from Hinduism, so its not really surprising to find old texts trying to explain and deify Siddarta Buddha (as the hero of the saga) as a multiple-reincarnated avatars of holiness whom was predestined to save mankind. So as a religion, like any other, Buddhism is a combination of a core set of philosophies + practices and structure that has cultural backgrounds.
The shrines, incense, wood bells, statues, temples, bowing and chanting, Buddhist names, monks shaving the hair ... are all symbolic gestures which during the olden times, the people thought were the best ways to announce and identify themselves as a follower of Buddha. Just like how the Christian ritual of bread and wine is thought to be originated from the Last Supper.
The difference with Christianity and Buddhism, would be that Christianity maintains all the ritualistic aspects and mythological beliefs as part of the religion that cannot be separated from the core philosophy itself, whereas Buddhism easily pronounces that if you don't like the Hindi world view of reincarnation, the stories of Buddha, the temples, bowing, cushions, meditations, etc etc.. you can get rid of all of that, and it doesn't really matter. The only important thing is how you, yourself can end your suffering, so even if you don't practice any of the ritualistic stuff, if your common, everyday life seems better with the core philosophy, then you can be a Buddhist even if you denounce Siddarta Buddha as a myth.
Admittedly, there are differences between the sects of Buddhism, and the discrepancies between these sects are actually wider than the discrepancy within Christian sects. For example the difference between South Asian Buddhism, Tibetan Buddhism, and Far Eastern Zen Buddhism... is actually larger than the difference between Catholicism and Islam.
So you need to realize that despite the "Buddhism" name attached to it, the different 'sects' of Buddhism may actually have to be considered as different religions with only a small, common denominator attached -- so the term "Buddhism" is more akin to the term "Abrahamic Religions" rather than individual religion names like "Catholicism" or "Protestantism" or "Islam" and etc..
So more accurately, it should be called "Buddhistic Religions" just like "Abrahamic Religions" -- this could clear away a LOT of the confusion observed within the podcast.
1:13:00 re: bowing I have done Japanese-based martial arts for decades, and have come to appreciate bowing. We bow to our training partners, our teachers, the dojo... It is not expressing subjugation in these cases. It does express respect and mark a special time, or place, or attitude. I suspect that the Japanese cultural associations mean different things than more European centered attitudes.
sleepy314 I can agree I've done martial arts from various Asian countries for about a decade. Other than a few Muslims I've never heard of anyone or anything negative about bowing
Part of the bow is mirroring a non verbal recognition of respect and center state of mind. You begin class with a bow and end the class with a bow. I learned the practice from martial arts and eastern mindfulness and stillness. I used this as a Mental Health Tec. in a locked psychiatric facility for 10 years. To remain centered and un moved by the physical threats and abuse and only responding with appropriate action helped me to be creative and non emotional also it helped me to survive and not get fired by over reacting as much as I would have without the meditative non judgmental state of mind also known as Mushin.
Some Fundamentalist Christians are told not to attend martial art or yoga as this constitutes worshiping another god. I had a Jewish student attend class but did not bow as her understanding of her religion prevented it..
Bowing in Japan is very common in general, not just in martial arts. You could say it is like a sign of respect or it is some way of submission, but I take like any other kind of greeting that would seem weird for outsiders.
Where exactly is the "respect" in prescribing it as traditional requirement?
If you get trained to ONLY show respect because everybody does it and you have no way to decide who deserves which level of respect for yourself, it is as empty a gesture as a forced oath of allegiance or putting the hand over your heart for a flag hoisting ceremony...
I am an atheist but i haven't always been. I was brought in a Christian family and i truly believed. As I got closer to adulthood I started to see cracks in my holy book and in my god. By the time I was 21 I had given up on Christianity because I realized it was made up by people. I still believed in god and desperately looked through the worlds religions to find the truth. I eventually, after a lot of studying, realized that they were all made up by people. I still keep dear a few things from the Buddha. great show.
Man I could listen to Seth talk about almost anything. Informative and well presented as always!
now I appreciate my Buddha statues more I bought them from Ross for bedroom decor:)
To me Buddhism is irrelevant, only the truth of the enlightenment of the Buddha, the purity of his teaching, and above all the practice of his meditation is relevant. The Buddha gained enlightenment through a technique of meditation, and the clearest message that the Buddha has given to all of humanity, is that via a technique of meditation, called Vipassana, which he had found out to be the most beneficial, everybody can first and foremost realise the negativities of the conditioned mind, and through the process of realisation, can begin the process of cleansing the mind/body phenomena of 'letting go' of the negativities of pre-conditioned mind, and through this process, can learn to fill the mind with positivity. Practicing the right kind of meditation, is much more important than intellectualising what the Buddha taught on that level. Because when we practice the meditation that the Buddha taught, we gain knowledge on the experiential level, not just on the intellectual level, and that means that we learn something in the depth of our mind/body phenomena, on the level where our negativity is seated, and only on that level, can we remove the causes of our negativity, and replace negativity with positivity. If we do not practice Buddhism in this very fundamental way, meaning meditation, Buddhism becomes an intellectual exercise, and while it may have intellectual benefits, it has no benefit on a much deeper level of changing the conditioned mind.
Well, I must say, if Buddhism teaches one to vomit such word salads with ease, Buddhists should have promising futures as lawyers.
I am downloading this now and will listen to it later. No doubt, I will regret this post later, but having scanned / mostly read the 107 comments so far, few if any comments stand out as coming from someone with more than a naive and superficial awareness of Buddhism. No, this is not a no true Buddhist statement, and I am not being judgmental. But having been an atheist and a Buddhist for five decades, there are few surprises left for me to hear from people about both topics. I have heard more strange, prejudicial beliefs about Buddhism than I have about "Darwinism". Considering that I live in Cobb County, the land of warning labels on school textbooks, I have heard a lot of nonsense, truly.
Before someone lines up to ask me if "Buddhism" is a religion, first define the term, "religion", and I will do my best to respond. Before you start applying your labels to me, you should know that I decided Jesus was a myth before I was ten. A year or two later I figured out that I was Buddhist. Before you doubt my skepticism bone fides, I went on to become a physicist because I wanted to know things rather than to believe things.
As Buddhism is open to skepticism in the first place, I won't doubt your interest in said practice. What denomination(s) have you subscribed to, and what are your primary justifications for doing so?
I do, however, doubt that you end up regretting this post after all. Lol
The second part to the joke involving the Buddhist and the hotdog vender is in response to the Buddhist asking for his change the hotdog vender says, "Ah, but change comes from within".
Don't understand the dislikes. It was an informative episode. Could have been longer actually. Keep up the good work!
Few are doing it. But everyone can do it better. Thanks for the kind words. -Seth
+David Snipes looks like folks are pissed with the bullshit sponsor he's tryna flog
+TheThinkingAtheist
What really bugged me was that I didn't know where the general info ends and the actual Buddhism talk starts. After a few minutes it was getting obnoxious.
Edit: it starts at 7:20...
I'm a life long agnostic atheist raised UU with an anthropologist father. I reached a pit of despair in my life and was forced to face my demons. At that point I turned to Zen Buddhism. For me I'm able to see the value of the stories and teachings while recognizing that they are not literally true. The meditation practice has incredible value and even the religious ceremony is in and of it's self is a form of meditation. I had reached the point of gnostic atheism before I became Buddhist. It's important to remember when discussing Buddhism that there are two major divisions within it.
The fundamentalist division is Theravada Buddhism, Mahayana Buddhism, and Vajrayana Buddhism. Theravada is the Fundy sect think Myanmar, Vajrayana Buddhism is the mystical sect think Tibet, and Mahayana is the more inclusive sect think Zen it is important to point out that Vajrayana is a branch off of Mahayana. I spent time living at a Soto Zen monastery and have been fully engaged in all of the forms and practices of the religion and my staunch lack of belief in the supernatural was never an issue with regards to the practice. The beauty of Buddhism to me is that it cuts through the bullshit and lets you get to the point which is that we create the world we live in and we can reduce the suffering in this world.
What a great way to start my Tuesday morning. This podcast presented Buddhism perfectly.Everyone has their own religion; it's called self realization.
Stephen Batchelor’s book ‘Buddhism Without Beliefs’ is excellent!
Agreement!
The whole show about Buddhism and not a single word about "My name is Earl" ?!
:D
I borrow from Buddhist meditation practices in my own life. I don't accept the truth-claims of Buddhism, of course, but they sure have a lot of experience with meditation, so they've got some good insights into how to practice it.
Sam Harris writes about Buddhist practice. Your guest is correct, you dont have to believe in God to practice Buddhism. There are many legends, sects of Buddhism deify the Buddah and believe in reincarnation, which comes out of Hinduism. Suffering includes dissatisfaction, unhappiness. Buddhism is more a philosophy than religious belief. We all have the Buddah within us, as well as demons. The tales/legends just illustrate , not taken as literal truth. It takes practice to live a skillful life.
I enjoyed that a lot. My partner is doing DBT (Dialectical Behavior Therapy).
It borrows a lot of it's tools from the teachings of Buddhism, uses a lot of the same terminlogy too. Pretty interesting. Not sure why a lot of people disliked the video (far more likes but yea), I'll have to read the comments to see if I can find out.. but Seth was just asking about it and getting different perspectives and having a basic introductory look at it.. he didn't claim to know anything or label it or diss it, none of that...
Edit: Okay it seems a select fewww people are grumpy that we don't need to attack Buddhism at all.. even though this wasn't an attack whatsoever.
But most of the dislikes actually seem to come from people thinking Seth should have taken them to task lol, called out the bullshit and delved into why Buddhism is crazy. But that's not what the show was about.. it's just a basic introductory, I found it informative and interesting, seeing all the differing views and versions of Buddhism.. plus, there were parts that were more critical. I think people just had an idea coming into it and wanted Seth to tear it apart, but that wouldn't be very fitting in my opinion. Plus, there's always more videos to come where he can delve deeper into that stuff, this was a good and informative start.
Excellent Podcast . Very Well Made . Just one point = Mc Afee is wrong on Buddhism and violence : One of Buddha's sermons puts this very clearly with a powerful example that stresses the need to love your enemy no matter how cruelly he treats you:
" Even if thieves carve you limb from limb with a double-handed saw, if you make your mind hostile you are not following my teaching. "
Kamcupamasutta, Majjhima-Nikkaya I ~ 28-29
While the BBS in Sri Lanka or 969 Movement in Myanmar is very much Buddhist , the academic research makes it clear its a fusion of politics , culture and religious majoritarianism . The book i am citing is The Buddha at war.
Also heres a incident of the famed vietnameese monk Thich Nhat Hanh : A Vietnam veteran was overheard rebuking the Vietnamese Buddhist monk, Thich Nhat Hanh, about his unswerving dedication to non-violence.
"You're a fool," said the veteran - "what if someone had wiped out all the Buddhists in the world and you were the last one left. Would you not try to kill the person who was trying to kill you, and in doing so save Buddhism?!"
Thich Nhat Hanh answered patiently "It would be better to let him kill me. If there is any truth to Buddhism and the Dharma it will not disappear from the face of the earth, but will reappear when seekers of truth are ready to rediscover it.
"In killing I would be betraying and abandoning the very teachings I would be seeking to preserve. So it would be better to let him kill me and remain true to the spirit of the Dharma.
@@SavvySide964 Is there any evidence that the assaults in Myanmar were motivated by Buddhism itself? Because I've seen none. I doubt it should have a bad rep from this
I am an atheist and a Buddhist. Atheism is not believing in a deity or supreme being, which I do not, nor does Buddhism advocate such.
I do believe in reincarnation and karma, but that doesn't conflict with atheism as there is no deity involved in reincarnation or karma.
whiy do you believe in reincarnation and karma?
I believe in them because I have felt their effects in my own life. it is not a dogmatic belief. If I ever change my mind, that would be okay.
One of the things I like about Buddhism that was not discussed in this piece is that it is a orthopraxy not an Orthodoxy.
how did you feel their effects in your life? in what situations?
You sound hostile so I'm ending this conversation
why do I sound hostile? I am realy disappointed...
Buddhism is a religion, not just a lifestyle since it still includes a large set of beliefs, behaviors and rituals based on faith. It is different from Western-style (e.g. Abrahamic) religions in that it is not exclusive. Yes, this makes it odd if not downright oxymoronic for a Christian to be also a Buddhist since one religion excludes the other without reciprocity.
As a religion, as was discussed in this podcast it is not immune to prejudices and aggression. For anyone trying to sell Buddhism as a 'religion of peace' just look at its repression and massacre of the Rohingya in Myanmar in the past decade in the name of religion.
I am an aethist, a critical thinker, I don't believe in anything supernatural and I would consider myself a Buddhist. It requires no Gods, or no belief in an 'afterlife'; I would argue that Budda himself taught that attachment to continued personal existence, or the 'soul' is a source of suffering.
WoW. A one and a half hour podcast describing gardening. Who would have known I was a Buddist.
I really enjoyed this show, thank you! You reading of the story of Buddha was nicely done, you have a great voice.
This podcast is one of the most comprehensive, balanced, fair minded, non denominational, yet reasonably short length introduction, synopsis, or a flagged survey, if you will, on the subject of Buddhism. Nice work.
I found the podcast's intro, your first speaker, and Stephen Bachelor highly interesting and intelligently based. What troubled me was the McEvoy segment, and those Georgia folks hung up on bowing and not-bowing.
There's a story about a California Buddhist and a Zen Buddhist walking. Everytime they ran across a piece of Buddha statuary the zen guy would bow, but the Cali dude would not.
Finally the Cali Buddhist declares that bowing to a piece of stone statuary was unnecessary; the zen Buddhist agreed but continued bowing anyway.
Then the Cali guy says spitting on the statues would have the same net effect. The zen Buddhist wholly agreed, again, but then he also stopped to say, "I bow... you spit."
That is what it's all about in my view; not cherry picking at all, but seeking and finding comfort.
I dare say, the way I read the message of Buddha, he likely wouldn't care either. The statues might even vaguely offend him, but he'd see either method, the bowing or the spitting, pretty much equally. Both practices somehow miss the point I think. Buddha said 'be lamps to your own path' (paraphrased).
I've often said that if I was ever going to take up religion once more, it would probably be Buddhism.
Buddhism works if you keep it as philosophy and don't put God in it
Buddhism is a non-theistic religion.
I see your Buddhism and raise you a reason, science, and philosophy.
Jack Barman So?
please let me know when science/philosophy figures out the hard problem of consciousness.
Not all philosophers recognize there is a hard problem. The burden is for you to prove there is such a thing. Until then, "the hard problem" is just an opinion.
Not Crazy There is no positive claim being proposed here. Daniel Dennett's view is that the hard problem will be seen as not real once all the inner working of the brain are solved. I don't agree with that premise. Both position are coming from an opinion and neither are supported in testable facts. I will say however, that from my own fallible observations, it does appear that since consciousness is a completely subjective experience, there is no way to scientifically point out where it originates from.
SmallFries01
I look at it as just one of many things we don't understand in evolution. I do not see it different than I do our senses.
Snakes have no consciousness. We still have all the parts of the reptilian brain, only with some gray goo in between. In the reptile brain those parts act independent.
The snake hunting for food is not the same snake as the one eating the food. The snake eating is not even be aware of the one hunting. Shit is strange.
I've always enjoyed the shows where you give a brief introduction to other religions especially in an effort to dispel pre-conceived notions as well as to get more of the truth for former members. I'd love to see more of these.
My personal thoughts on this religion are, on the surface it sounds much more realistic about how to treat yourself and others. But, like all religions, no one can agree on the "correct" dogma and rhetoric and there are some pretty absurd, illogical aspects to it which must be questioned.
The only part of it that I think is healthy and could be adopted by people of every walk of life is meditation. Meditation for people with anxiety is highly encouraged since it's a way to calm our thoughts and calm our bodies. With so many societal and cultural expectations, most of which are bullshit, being able to shut the world out on a daily basis is a good thing.
Personally I've tried to live my life, more so over the last few years, of "Don't be a dick as much as you can." It's why I've happily embraced being an atheist and have become more comfortable as a non-believer. I try to treat people well because it's the right thing to do. It's correct to view people with sympathy and empathy. To treat everyone as my equal instead of beneath or above me. Religions teach the opposite and tell people to be a good person or else they'll go to Hell or whatever bad place their God(s) tells them. No, treat people well because they are a fellow human being and deserve the same amount of respect that you do.
Finally, really looking forward to next week's podcast. My sister-in-law is this weird hybrid of conservative Catholic, anti-education, hippie who's imposed a bizarre, unbalanced diet upon her family for years. Ironically enough, the diet she touts as being the best for people has led to my oldest nephew having allergies to most of the food she claims is okay. She's one of those people who takes random articles on the internet as gospel because it confirms her bias and you cannot have a logical, fact-based discussion with.
Anti-education? No wonder if an "original sin" involves being granted knowledge. Lol
Yes, confirmation bias is huge for those people.
Even Buddhism is an example of morals without a deity, despite what a lot of Christians falsely insist.
he calls Gautama Buddha as Guantanamo Buddha ? @33:50
I don't mind commercials here and there, but when the third commercial came 16 minutes in, I stopped listening. Too many commercials make this unlistenable.
I think this is the exception with Seth's videos, but I've noticed the same problem with Seth's podcasts (when using Google podcasts). Not to mention when the same ad somehow gets stuck in the podcast and repeats itself endlessly if you don't fast forward to skip it.
Just a friendly note.
In the recent years,I have little faith in Buddhism,because some monks of Buddhism are my respect greatly,and its creator also has a legendary life and deserve to be respected,I love some theories from Buddism like finding peace from heart from inner,the universe is our heart.Some theories like the the Buddha give you everything I don't really like it,that was from my senior school 's student.
My Kingdom for inner peace!
Speaking as someone who enjoys comparative religion and comparative mythology, if people are looking for a more comprehensive description of Buddhism and The Buddha, I recommend the lectures from The Great Courses course on World Religions: Buddhism. Another option is the PBS (American Public Television),, The Buddha (2010). I meditate myself and it helps a lot.
Every time someone says Starbuck's I thinkthey are talking about Battlestar Galactica!
Very well-balanced conversation. At the very least, it's nice that buddhism isn't the aggressive self-perpetuating mind-virus that islam and christianity are.
I don't get some of this stuff about karma. How you are supposed to accumulate good karma if you're a cockroach? Also, if you've accumulated so much bad karma from previous, previous lives - not just this current one - that you are condemned to a reincarnation as a cockroach, then how did you get to be a human this time around? Does your karma only get assessed once every few hundred years, or something? Or am I missing the point? It wouldn't be the first time.
Karma is a concept that predates Buddhism itself by centuries, and as far as various Brahmanic, Buddhist and even Jainist denominations go, there's no single consensus about how karma truly works, or whether it does, or whether there's reason enough to believe that it actually exists. Of all the concepts used in Buddhism, karma is probably the wooiest as it pertains more to a supernatural cycle of life, death and rebirth rather than simple cause and effect (as some would like you to believe). I always take any talk of karma with a grain of salt, bearing in mind that there's going to be a lot of unfalsifiable assertions thrown in the conversation.
I see, thanks for that Edwin. You would think that, after all this time, they would have quantified or codified it to some extent; especially where getting stuck as an insect is concerned.
istopped - the issue about karma is simply "cause and effect". What you put out, you get back. In Hinduism, it deals with literal life after life after life. In Buddhism, however, it relates to this particular life. In essence, Siddhartha's teaching states that when you wake in the morning, you are not the same person you were yesterday as you have changed in thinking AND physical sense. Buddhist reincarnation is not about transmigration (changing species to species.)
Dan Atatakai I see, so there is quite a lot of variation to the idea, then. This made me think of another question which must surely be asked a lot by beginners: At one point in Earth's history there would have been very few life-forms in existence Do any of the exponents of reincarnation have ideas about where all the extra souls come from as populations increase? Is there a spiritual forge where new souls are made according to demand?
istopped - in Buddhism, reincarnation is metaphor, not literal. In Hinduism, your question would be valid.
In Buddhism, every day you awaken is a new life for you. You are no longer the same person you were the day before, but "borne" from new ideas to millions of new cells added to your body, replacing the millions which have died overnight. Some Buddhists even see the cycle of one breath as an entire life cycle - to inhale or inspire, then to exhale or expire.
As for spiritual influence/conditions and souls, I suggest you talk with a Tibetan/Vajrayana Buddhist about how they perceive that concept.
The guy who says Buddhism has loopholes for violence is either a dis-informant or an ignorant without basic knowledge about Buddhism. Not a single violent action done by a Buddhist can be traced to the Tripitaka the Buddhist scriptures. In sharp contrast to Christianity and Islam which is full of violent verses.
interesting topic. Met a few buddist myself, their some of THE nicest people I personally know. As long as they do no harm let them be. The constitution guarantees freedom of religion anyway.
But who are the anti muslims in Burma,the genociders ,are they buddists or some else ?
They support separation of church and state?
This very moment listening to "Buddah" by Manfred Mann's Earth Band. Great song!
It is a religion. But it is a religion with practices that can be extricated.But a trip to SE Asia will quickly remove any assumptions about it not being a religion. Even the Theravadim (Hinayana) and the Zen folks practise a religion (to varying degrees).The majority form- the Mahayana systems and the Tibetan systems are very much religion, replete with deities, demons, spirits, boddhisattvas and any number of other spirit creatures and all with rituals and practices surrounding them.
btw- the show was excellent.
When properly employed, Buddhism can change a human doing into a human being.
There are also many good videos by Alan Watts on Buddhism
There are good points of Buddhism that I can use. Just as there are good points taught by Jesus. They both taught us peace and love but how many people really follow the teachings. I’m a former evangelical Christian turned agnostic and I don’t want any part of any religion. Seth really sheds light on Buddhism. Hopefully there are things that can be gleaned from the original teachings that can be useful.
Very excited to hear your and the nutritionists' takes on Food Babe!
Ready to hear a bunch of arguments from authority and naturalistic fallacies from the new Dr. Oz he's bringing on?
How about listening to the podcast first and the points the guests make before making such a statement?
Not Adulting Today Because Seth has been known for doing it in the past. New listener? You don't have to listen back very far...
I'm windering, I'm an atheist and don't parttake or identify with any religion at all. Still I like to meditate, as it helps me getting my thoughts together throughout the day. Does anyone do the same?
All sutras attributed to the Buddha were written 500 years after his supposed life. Those who say Buddhism is not a supernatural religion should try living in regions of the world where people pray at temples with bald, chanting priests and wish for better reincarnations. Competing interpretations of Buddhism label others "no true Scotsman" just as other religious sects do. I made a video about Buddhism called "One Desire to Rule Them All".
Great podcast Seth!
In the reading I've done.... The way of Buddhism goes on to insist it's not a religion there's nothing to worship.
I am an atheist. This adding crap like Taoism, Wicca, Buddhism, Jainism ect. to it sets off my woodar the same way feminism or homeopathy does and makes a position of skepticism sound like a belief system .
It's a fun game...waiting for the first person to ham-handedly mention feminism in the comments section of an unrelated video. You got in within the first hour of release. You get a cookie.
WADAMINIT!!! HE gets a cookie??? What about the rest of us??? Especially those with the munchies!!! [chuckle!] Sorry, Seth, I just had to! [GUFFAW!]
Non theistic religions tend to be a substitute, like the Brain still has to match patterns to keep us safe from the suspected lion in the bush. Happens to the best of us, I mean look at how touchy and defensive people like Seth or Aaronra get over feminism.
Non theistic dogma is tricky as it can be a harder thing to think about, you get authoritarians screaming or alt right tards snivelling at you which can be off putting, but sometimes you need to try and ignore the banter and look at the cold hard statistics to effect your opinion.
+TheThinkingAtheist
Hi! I was wondering if you knee that the teachings of buddhism, specially the path towards forgiveness, is completely opposite to todays psychology. I practiced buddhism for a while, it sure brings satisfaction and even wellbeing, but it brings it by getting the person of of reality. If you like to know more please read Jean Morbouquette on the subject. Have a nice day.
I could post a video about Thousand Island Salad Dressing, and somebody in the cheat seats would find an excuse to bitch about feminism. It's a hugely revealing and self-conscious feedback loop that's interesting to watch, and it says a lot more about them than it says about me, this show, or this movement.
I was surprised to see so many dislikes on this video, but I understand after Seth spends a number of minutes on a future show's topic during this one instead.
I do not and can not afford many things. However i would love to pay to have your broadcast without the product pitch’s. Is that possible? Im new here and my atheism is getting stronger by the hour. I am a huge fan of Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, and Richard Dawkins. Read most of the books, but I do like your podcast not so much interested in the callers but still informative. I’m really interested in experts that understand and can explain why we are atheist.
In Buddhism the goal is to become a Buddha, not to worship Buddha. To become enlightened. Siddhartha Gautama did not start Buddhism! He said that there had been many Buddhas before him.
Thanks for this Seth, you have been very helpful.
a religion is not a system of ethics, it's a system of thought that has ethics as one of it's components. the philosophy of ethics, which is a large foundation of philosophy as a whole, is often critical of religions.
Listening to the first bit about food woo, a Doctor told my mum is she didn't give my brother gluten, he'd never grow. He's almost 6ft now so funnily enough, it was probably just as well his growth was stunted.
I know that some people treat gluten free and other things as fads but it is annoying when someone has a genuine intolerance or allergy and people don't take it seriously. If you're told a child in your care cannot have gluten, egg or dairy, don't give them cake because you feel they're 'missing out'. That's like giving a snickers to someone with a life threatening peanut allergy, just don't do it.
I'm sure this is another great show! Hope everything is going well Seth!
You posted first! Congrats, man
Thanks Tome Chan! Do I win a Seth Andrews signed Bible?? :p
Okay, that would be cool
Am I the only one who wants to hire Seth to just read to me every night while I'm going to sleep?? I don't care what he reads. He could be reading a stock report and it would be soothing!
maybe you should listen to ASMR videos...
Steven Novella, Scibabe and two dieteticians next week on food woo ? That's going to be a great one, Seth ! Looking forward to it !
You don't have to do prostrations if you don't want to. You don't have to make vows to a person. Perhaps in Tibetan Buddhism you do; I don't know. All Buddhism really demands of you is that you believe in the laws of Cause and Effect and Causes and Conditions, that you recognize that all phenomena are interdependent and that there is no permanent, separate self. It is impossible to talk adequately about rebirth, karma, and other concepts in this space., but like the Buddha said, you don't have to accept them if they don't make sense to you.
Buddhism itself is no religion, but a practice, a discipline that helps one to focus oneself, to gain perspective.
You can append Buddhist practice on top a of religion, an overlay. No reincarnation, no gods, no woo is intrinsic.
Queen dream mythologies and other mythologies were all amusements for the theistic simpletons that needed this sort of hook to get their attention.
Your "Buddhism is a religion" speaker, David McAfee is an authority by virtue of a label in some undergraduate courses? LOL. Poisoning the well with the accusation that others don't have his academic footings.
Buddhism is an overlay. Often over plenty of local woo; with gawds, spirits, reincarnation. Religions lead and bond tribes, start wars. So those religions that have the overlay, and call themselves Buddhist have all the theistic and other religious trappings.
Buddhism at its core is a tool, with ethical practice that largely derived from the an innate/cultural root of FAIRNESS. Just as also expressed by other great apes [Frans de Waal]
ugh, those reincarnationist, formerchristian joiners.
There are millions of Buddhists in SE Asia who were born into Buddhism. I can assure you it is their whole religion, not an "overlay" on others.
Dee Dee must be one of the the most INSIGHTLESS comments I've read. Overlays happen all the time culturally, linguistically, with religions.
Just think of Roman Catholicism. DO you you really think the ancient Romans gods were discarded? NO! They were covertly maintained as saints, and saint worship, keeping the overlaid 'customers' happy. Would not hv been the case if truly paying attn to no idols, no graven image rules from Old Testament.
Language: Following the breakup of the Roman empire do you really think that romance languages simply evolved separately. Some yes, but the various regions were not originally Latin speakers. Their original language was overlaid. The result never being pure anything.
English...overlays
Buddhism is great. People are the ones who messed it up turning it into a religion and all. Find the secular do away w the dogma n you have a very good philosophy. Even Buddha said to not revere him as a god
Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu! 🙏🏻😊
Homage to supreme Buddha
I could not help but notice that when Seth read the core teachings of the Buddha it sounded suspiciously like a skeptic. Then as it expanded out the layering of religion seems to take hold.
Great video. Thank you Seth.
3:55
Why say 'it comes from kelp and is healthy' rather than giving a real source? I'm not falling for the argument from authority or the naturalistic fallacy and YOU SHOULDN'T EITHER.
I understand what you're saying. I use the same argument when people tell me that beer is bad, and I say "Hey, it comes from vegetables." Arsenic is soooo natural....
I appreciate your shows, Seth, and I agree with most of what you say. But after having worked in the healthcare industry for 18 years, I can tell you that you need to be just as skeptical of them as you are of religion and Gods. I am not saying that none of them can be trusted, or that the advances in medicine are worthless, but greed and self-preservation does often play a major part in how patients are treated. Countless times I have seen people cut corners that affected outcomes. Not really the subject of this podcast, but you did bring it up early in the discussion. I will look forward to your discussion of it in the future.
I'm not a shill for the healthcare industry. I'm hugely frustrated by much of it. But the out-there claims that the whole of healthcare is hiding cancer cures and purposefully making people ill as part of a star chamber conspiracy is just pathetic.
The system has real problems, and there are many who are greedy and problematic. But speaking about the good men and women of the healthcare profession with blankets and bumper stickers only hurts us.
Oh, I'm not accusing you of being a shill, Seth. I'm just saying to use what you start your podcast with, "Assume nothing" and "Question everything," in regards to healthcare. Working behind the scenes allowed me to see things that would make most people very angry, and sadly, if you speak out against it, you will be smothered. There is a ton of back scratching going on, and I'm talking about congressmen and even judges.
Learn as much as you can on your own about your own health, don't assume the person you're putting your faith in cares as much as you do about your own health. They often don't.
My wife works in the healthcare profession. I understand the challenges. Again, I'm speaking to the "vast conspiracy" narrative.
I don't buy that someone's sitting on a cancer cure and laughing all the way to the bank. I do realize that people are people - for good and for ill - and that the healthcare system is hugely problematic and certainly not free from corruption.
I have no idea is there is a cancer cure, or if there could have been one by now, but I do know that the healthcare industry has a lot of clout, and they do influence the direction of positive action. Think about big oil and how they have pretty much kept alternative energy from becoming the norm in the world. Sure, the market has been an influence on progress, but if you think Oil Tycoons have sat silently and not been involved, you would be mistaken. Same thing with the pharmaceutical and insurance industries, they have been a major influence, and often not in a good way.
I will leave you some links about what I have witnessed personally, and honestly, this stuff was just the tip of the iceberg. Seth, you need to be just as skeptical of the healthcare industry as you are of religion.
familycourtmatters.wordpress.com/2010/01/30/the-profit-in-nonprofits-phoebe-factoids-and-2-men-in-albany-ga/
www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20150401/NEWS/150409992
Buddhism, like Hinduism is a way of life. No do's and don'ts. Gautama Siddartha Buddha is the ultimate master.
Great show Seth. I say it's an ideology to be practiced. If the world converted to Buddhism and Jainism it would be a safer place. Thanks Seth.
I love this show. A new perspective all the time.
Very good podcast!
Language question: At 1:07:14, he says, "I got the name Tintzen Chodrak (not sure how that's spelled) which meant Dharma Teacher." My question is, if "dharma" comes from the same culture as does the name he was given, why isn't the word "Dharma" heard in the name that supposedly means "Dharma Teacher?"
Been meaning to read up on Buddhism for some time, the podcast was interesting, will need to look more into this, any book suggestions Seth?
Did he say "Guantanamo Buddha"? 33:50
The core teaching of buddhism today is not the full original teaching of budha, the original teaching book is burned down by muslim invader. They burned down the nalanda library.
Once again, Seth, you delivered some great content in a very easy-to-listen-to way. I come away a bit more enlightened (yes! pun!) Thanks my friend.
If my mind slows down then wouldn't it logically follow that my perception of everything around me speeds up?
A wise guy asked the Bubbliest hot dog vender to make him one with everything He handed the vender a $50 and the vender made him a hot dog with everything on it The man took a bite while he was waiting for his change He finished the ho dog and asked the vender Where is my change? The vender replied When I made you one with everything the change comes from within
I love ur shows and I've been listening to ur shows at least two years now. I'm in Oklahoma City, and I was born in Tulsa, I'm an Atheist too.
How typical. The last couple practiced Tibetan Buddhism, a very distinct, and "religious" sect of Buddhism, but not once did they acknowledge that basically everything that they talked about in reference to formal practice is a thing only in that school. I know it's just an anecdotal evidence, but in my experience it's a common trait for everyone who practiced this school.
And sad that Seth only asked them about rebirth. Batchelor talks a lot of interesting things about how it is written about in the earliest Buddhist texts, without as much "woo" that was attached later on.
Reincarnation is bullshit, Karma (in the sense it is commonly understood) is bullshit, and the two combined create an immoral system in addition to being fictional concepts.
Karma is bullshit, the reason good and bad generally have good and bad consequences is because that's how we arrived at the conclusion that the action is good or bad in the first place. There is no physical law to enforce karma in each specific case, and those who tout bad people and good people getting what they deserve as "karma" are no different than Christians touting natural phenomena as "miracles"
As for reincarnation, what is the point of reincarnation if you're just gonna have your memory wiped anyway? I can accept the possibility that a consciousness can survive being transferred to a new being, but without the transfer of memory there is no point other than if the soul factory ran out of souls and had to recycle them, should my soul be capable of surviving death I would very much like my memory intact thank you very much.
And reincarnation combined with karma, creates the problem of 1)punishing what is essentially clean slates for the crimes of their past selves, but 2) you create an endless loop of suffering: the person is a good person in this life, so he gets reincarnated as a rich person, but because the rich tend to be assholes he gets reincarnated as a poor person the next life, and then being a good poor person he once again reincarnates as a rich person, the system does not take into account the crimes caused by itself.
As for the rejection of materialism (a common theme among the spiritual), it is simply ridiculous. Yes, inefficient or excessive materialism can be bad, but its not about "moderation" either. Suppose scientists are on a roll and keep discovering newer, better cures for diseases and newer and better technologies that are more efficient and reduce suffering, it only makes sense to always adopt the new thing. If every consumer had the mindset of "there's always gonna be a new product coming out in a few months anyway why update now", society and technology would never progress.
Agree - mostly. Good to hear. I reckon that reincarnation should/must be pretty random, so that if you come back as a cockroach, and get squished by my g/f who hates roaches, what's the problem? As for roaches, I hope they're happy to be me.
The 2nd caller has an irresponsible attitude to the conflict between Buddhism and the ever growing Islam.
He is apparently not aware that Buddhism and Hinduism is nearly extinct in Indonesia.
Hinduism is slowly being marginalised in Bangladesh.
Orthodox Christianity is wiped out in Turkey.
Islam poses a very real threat to these smaller "religions", it's expanding at their cost.
I agree with everything Steven says about the topic, but several instances he puts down the Tao, especially while addressing what is Dharma. In essence they are kinda the same. Taoism is basically Buddhism arose independently in China without the heavy psychological touch on the problem of suffering, focusing mainly on understanding the nature of things, which is what Dharma seems to be, which is the solution Buddha suggested. In some sense Taoism in its pure form can be said to be superior to Buddhism, not that it matters.
It’s disappointing when one try to glorify one doctrine discrediting another of equal effect. Another salesman.
Apparently some ppl ditched Christianity to only be a fanatic of another religion. The couple got Buddhism partially and a bunch of baggage.
Don't do full lotus, or other sitting positions people, that shit can be terrible for your knees, it's often painful and completely pointless for the intended purpose of meditation. Sit comfortably. I've seen on the internet people fucking their knees up doing this shit, one person got double knee replacement surgery lol. I do see that at least some teachers advise to not sit in those positions since it's pointless and often painful, they just say to sit comfortably. You might tear a tendon or at least over stretch it if you're not up for it.
'You just went full-lotus..you never go full-lotus..'
Buddhism does not seem too far away from Stoicism.
The soundtrack in the background is brilliant. Does anybody know what it is?
Cool, Steve Novella is the one who got me into skepticism.
Marvin Minsky and his artificial intelligence talks would be a good podcast Society of Mind Introduction Marvin Minsky when asked about the Buddha by a student Marvin didn't have a very high oppinion
Meditating while riding a bicycle == Expecting other road users to take care of you.
Religion is religion. You can have supernatural or woo beliefs without a god.
The dood who commented in about his anxiety disorder pretty much is practicing Secular Buddhism
Just like a personal jesus, there is a personal bhudda as well and applies to other religions. But bhudda did refer to gods and demons so it is a religion as well.
44:44 It's not superstitious to point out that homosexuality is abnormal. Abnormal just means deviating from what is normal or usual, which is true for homosexuality in humans. Now, if someone's arguing that homosexuality is wrong because it's abnormal we'd call that a "normative" conclusion. It sounds like the person who left that comment is accusing Buddhism of heteronormativity, and that this is part of their religious dogma supported by some superstitious beliefs. Is that true? I don't know.
The Buddhist idea of a soul, however, is certainly superstitious!
I think you are somewhat conflating Abnormal with Uncommon. I realize there is a lot of overlap between the 2 terms, but as I see it Homosexuality happens through time and among many species, so it's a Normal part of existence, it's just not a common occurrence.