Performance Radiator - Explained
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- Опубликовано: 29 окт 2013
- What is a performance radiator? How do racing radiators improve cooling? Performance radiators have many criteria used in order to create something with great cooling, no leaks, all at a low weight. The dimensions, fin density, number of passes, number of cores (rows), materials used, fan speed, coolant flow rate, and temperature differential all play a large roll in performance radiator design. This particular radiator is a Yonaka race radiator for Acura Integras. The radiator includes the shroud and fans.
Product Link:
Yonaka Race Radiator - www.yonaka.com/Acura_Integra_1...
Related Videos:
Cooling System - • Radiators - Explained
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Hey, I just wanted to say thanks for all your great videos. I never grew up around people who could teach me much about cars so I've learned a great amount from all your videos. Keep up the good work!
Thicker radiators won't be dissipating much heat once the air is warmed up, and still passing through the radiator, hence, having it as thin as possible is best (assuming it takes up a large area, which is not ideal).
But what if I have plenty of room in the engine bay?
Awesome, best of luck! I hope to rebuild the Integra engine at some point.
We shall see, that'd be awesome!
Depends of course, on all of the factors I've described in the video, and many more. That said, it could easily be 50 degrees or more.
I like how you cover everything in your videos and continue to go beyond what others would deem necessary. Thanks for everything you do :D
One thing to touch / comment on is #5 (Material Selection). There is a common misconception in the automotive world which I see quite often when it related to material selection for a Radiator. This misconception is that what people often call a "Copper" radiator (which is really a copper/brass radiator) and it being better for cooling is not true at all.
This is false because while Copper is a better conductor of heat energy, the only part that is copper in them is the fins. Everything else is brass (I.e., the tubes, headers, tanks, etc...) Brass has a lower thermal conductivity rate then aluminum to start with. So the heat transfer out of the water (coolant) is slower in since it has to conduct through the brass tube. The next issue is the "copper" fins are soldered to the brass tubes. The Solder also has an even lower thermal conductivity rate then the brass tubes. Essentially, the solder acts as an insulator between the brass tubes and the copper fins.
With an aluminum core, the construction of the core is essentially 100% aluminum (Aluminum Tubes and fins with an aluminum based braze cladding) so the thermal conductivity rate is virtually the same throughout all components (which is higher then the brass for the tubes and the solder of a C/B (Copper/Brass) Radiator).
It was a Manufacturing cost issue as to why for the longest time, the automotive manufacturing industry used C/B radiators. It was viewed as, "while overall, the aluminum unit will truly cool better, the C/B worked "good enough" and it was much cheaper to manufacture (much cheaper to stamp tanks and components and solder them then to fabricate and weld aluminum tanks". Plus aluminum brazing clad sheets (whats used to bond the fins to the tube) was not really perfected until the late 70's / early 80's.
With technology advancements in Thermal Plastics and copper material cost rise in more recent years (last 20 years), it became more cost effective to go over to Aluminum cores which is why virtually every car sold new in the last 20+ years has come with either Aluminum core / Plastic tank and in some rare cases, 100% aluminum units (i.e., welded Aluminum tanks).
Also, another thing to point out is that #8 (Temp Differential) is one of the few things (like #6) which explains why #1 is as stated ("better to have more frontal area then thickness) is desirable. As the cooling air enters the grill side of the core, it starts to absorb heat from the fins and tubes. This air gains heat on its way though the cores thickness (obviously)... This heat gained by the air means that the temperature differential between the air and the rear side (engine side) tube(s) is now lower so less transfer occurs from the tubes and fins to the air moving across it as Thermodynamics shows us that a higher ΔT (Delta T) means that heat is transferred (ΔQ) at a fast/higher rate between the two media's. Basically the first law of Thermodynamics tells us that an increase in in ΔT = an increase in ΔQ.... So the air entering the grill side of the core will be at ambient but the air in the middle of the core will be hotter and the air exiting the core will be even hotter then what it was in the middle. An easy way to say it will be that the ΔQ will drop as the air pass through the core's thickness.
Chris P you missed a big thing, aluminium is lighter while offering "close enough" performance to copper, i thought that should be the main point
Chris P dammm bro. Bible long ass comment. Ain't nobody got time for that.
I appreciate your informative addition.
You are physics guy😀
You said some parts are copper and some are brass... brass is a copper alloy...
Very good explanation on turbine engines, I give you two wrenches up!!!
Thanks!
To learn, my friend!
Just wanna say you've taught me the most about cars. "With that being said" , im about to start my first restoration!
Hmm, good question, it really shouldn't change it too much. It may have a small effect, but ultimately both fans would be blowing the same flow rate (or the more powerful fan would do most of the work, if they were different). Increasing airflow would have a much greater effect.
Water and aluminum work pretty well together for transferring heat. Water is super cheap as well, and safe.
Depends, it can certainly go both ways, and many times it is done from top to bottom so that as it cools it naturally moves downward. Different cars do it differently.
Cheers!
Thanks!
Hmm, I'm not really sure. It may be designed that way, perhaps to fit within a certain area, or improve cooling.
Very well explained. Thanks for including ample detail in your videos. I also like the whiteboard illustrations, when available. 👍
Yep
Really enjoy your videos. You are great at simplifying concepts without condescending.
I like how there are positives and negatives in EVERY aspect of cars almost. Anything that has positives only is already implemented in most cars. Just goes to show how race cars are different to road cars. Thanks for the video!
For more passes, you get more pressure, which means a higher boiling point, which means (hopefully) less spontaneous air bubbles in the coolant line (if your engine operates close to tolerances like that). Plus, basically, you're compensating for the massive differential of specific heat between air and water when you increase the dwelling time, resulting in more effective overall cooling rates and ultimate cooling results.
i love the way you hold these mechanic parts
These are really interesting videos man, one thing to consider is to make sure you measure everything when setting this stuff up, my mate set up a water to air intercooler and found that by decreasing water pump speed it was working more efficiently, this is because when the pump was at max rpm it was causing cavitation and so the water flow was less than at a lower voltage. Plenty of head pressure to the pump fixes this though
Often overlooked yet very important especially on some cars like my E46 M3, I have fitted 3 different types before I found the best setup using a pro alloy part, it has a 35 per cent greater efficiency and allows a bigger intercooler to be fitted for the supercharger. A better oilcooler fits into the front now too so everything is much better than it was. Even power went up to 557bhp cos the fmi is reducing the charge temperature more
what temp thermostat are you using? i am running about the same hp as you and parts store told me to use a 160 degree but i have always used a 195 in the past. i have an over heating problem. going to go all aluminum 3 row and need to know about thermostat to use.
And what's brand -model ?.
Yes it would, i'd love to see it. The Integra platform and chassis is more than capable.
Wanted to give some love to the older videos. Obviously your increased access to resources has made the videos flashy, but the whiteboard approach is lovable.
I'd love a deeper dive specifically on the multi-pass design.
You said multi-pass would cool more and I believe you, but the mechanism you describe ("increasing the amount of time that the coolant is going to be in this radiator") is false.
For a given area and flow rate, residence time within the radiator is fixed (closed system).
Thus the achievable heat transfer (i.e. temperature drop, for a given coolant mass flow rate) seems to be hard to modify with this intervention.
The multi-pass design would seem to have:
1. Higher linear velocity of coolant flow (constant effective area - reduced effective cross-section, higher effective length).
2. As a result: reduced temperature gradient in the horizontal direction (for the horizontal flow you diagrammed). However: paid for with increased temperature gradient in the vertical dimension.
3. If the number of passes is even: the opportunity to have inlet and outlet on the same side - possibly useful for packaging. You diagrammed three passes, so no benefit there.
Other than perhaps interactions with vehicle aerodynamics (say, upper and lower intake ducts with differing flow potential, and/or a vertical temperature gradient in intake air), only (1) above - higher linear velocity - seems to be a plausible mechanism of action.
Do you know of a scaling rule for liquid-side linear flow velocity (or reynolds number)? I know you usually aim for a lower Nerd Factor than this, but perhaps you could be coaxed a bit?
Thanks for all your hard work and great content!
omg those outlets welds ... looks crappy inside that outlet tube 1:01
i thought i was the only one that saw that ha ha ha ah
"Friday!
Thought the same thing LOL
There's always visible evidence of blow through during aluminum welding an experienced welder should be able to see this I can aluminum is one of my favorites
Probably mishimoto
Very well explained, I learnt heaps from this and your other vids
great video man
To be honest, I'm not sure. But apparently it's capable of pulling more air through, where as pushing may cause the air to push out to the sides of the fan.
Great Job covering the radiator you did leave a pro and con out that I could see right off the stock plastic rounded tanks get better velocity than the square one because of the shape (nearly impossible to find round tank aluminum radiators not cost effective to make) although on older cars you can often get rounded copper tanks.
Your video's are very educational and spot on! thanks for posting!!
I have a '94 Fleetwood southwind motorhome, F53 ford engine. the radiator guy says I need a 2691 cbr. what do u thin is best radiator for my rig? thanks.
Well explained and informative. Loved the video. Thanks
Bravo! This guide is far the best video on topic I have found. Thank you evry much!
Nice haircut, and thanks for these videos!!
Informative and adds to my understanding of cooling systems and build a car with an emphasis on cool temperatures. Enjoyed and the basic understanding leads to practical and better designed radiators for our cars. Thanks
Greetings from Trinidad and Tobago. Keep up the awesome tutorials
Love these video really helps me out :)
Can i replace the cooling fins with radiator ?
when i travel for a long time my engine always vibrate more than the same cc with radiator
Damn dude, they send you soo much stuff! thats sweet!
Thanks for making these vids! Three questions: 1) Is it possible to have a push pull configuration for a radiator? If clearance is not an issue It would be cool to take a que from computers and have a push-pull fan setup for a radiator. 2) how would a multiple radiator setup work? Again I'm taking ques from computer building. 3) How does radiators behave or how do people get around debris issues in their radiators when doing thing like deep fording; I see vids of cars fording through flooded streeta for instance and of course I see tanks fording rivers, is there some sort of close-able flap and or a fan shut switch to permit fording? Keep up the good work!!
i like all these video's cuz he explains everything in full detail.thanks for making these video's.
In your explanation you mentioned that this is a top-down flowing radiator but I believe on Honda's the flow direction is opposite (bottom-up). The bottom radiator hose is connected to the thermostat housing where hot coolant is released going to the bottom radiator reservoir them moving up through the cores to the top reservoir before being pushed back into the engine via the head.
great vid with very clear explanations
The video was totally informative and there was so much of knowledge to be gained out of it. I have an important question, you said its important to maintain higher temperature differential of coolant. But that's gonna demand more power or energy isn't it?
Eg. Let's take two temperature differentials of delta X and delta Y, where del X is greater than del Y. Obviously, the former case needs more power to undergo cooling than later, which means the fan has to rotate at a higher speed to meet the objective. I think it's more simpler to have lower temp. diff than higher. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Cheers!!
You want a high temperature differential between the outside air and the engine coolant, so that you can take a significant amount of heat out of it.
Yes, indeed, mine are electric from the start.
I would assume you can get a higher energy dissipation via pulling because the mean velocity of the air is greater. This is because once the heat is dissipated, the air is still being accelerated in by the fan, whereas with a pushfan once the heat is dissipated it creates a small amount of backpressure as it is already decelerating.
The internet, haha, there's not a one stop shop that teaches you everything, so I'm working on making it! I have a more detailed answer on my FAQ, link's on my About page.
Would installing a bigger radiator like this negatively affect system pressure or put excess strain on the water pump?
yes
It depends on the resistance of the radiator, you could put a larger radiator on and if it has lower resistance it would put less strain on your water pump. It is similar to electrical resistance: More parallel tubes = lower resistance, thinner tubes = higher resistance, longer path = more resistance
no- the engine will soak it up, it will cost hp
As always your videos are top notch..
5:40 I think another big thing the aluminum radiators have going for them is that they don't cause as many corrosion issues as the copper radiator.
Hey, just wondering what negatives and positives changing to a performance thermostat will make to my engine? I'm worried that changing to the Mishimoto thermostat to match my radiator and hoses will cause my engine to run too cold considering I have no power mods as of this moment in time (car is an Evolution 4) and the new Mishimoto thermostat runs around 10 Celsius lower than the OE one.
I think they are more efficient because the fan inevitably warms up the air its pushing. And if the fans are in front, the air that hits the radiators are warmer and hence less temperature differential than if the fans were mounted in the back. Also I think when the pulling fan creates lower pressure, air from all over the front is sucked it, while on the other hand, the air follows closely the geometry of the fan, meaning the air will be about the diameter of the fan, hence reducing area.
In stationary applications like liquid cooling on pc, pulling or pushing makes no difference in efficiency. Pulling is preferable though, because any dirt would be stuck primarily on the other side of the radiator which is very easily cleaned. If you were pushing air, dirt would be stuck between the fan and the radiator and it would accumulate over time. I believe that this is the reason car engineers select pull, also a pulling config may increase airflow due to the car's speed.
Thank you, it's clear for me now,!
E85 is alcohol fuel (Ethanol). Ethanol is an alcohol-based fuel made by fermenting and distilling starch crops, such as corn. In other words, is the juices from rotting crops, mixed with some chemicals to produce fuel. But, here's the kicker; if 1 gallon of E85 was burned in an engine with a set af/r, and the same amount of petroleum (gasoline) as burned in the same engine with the same af/r, the E85 would produce significantly more power. E85 usually gets 25-30% less MPG, but is cheaper to buy.
On my 1995 300ZX turbo,i modified my front headlights cleaning sprays to fix them directly facing on the intercooler,when needed,in traffic,it brings the temp down incredibly,and when rolling too,easy,i put a bigger tank and pump for fresh cold water only,when driving to Vegas,I add chunks of dry ice,because it has a tendency to overheat when stuck in Tfc.working on a ventilated hood with fans.
Man that's a great idea, easier than installing a bigger radiator.
In my opinion a thicker radiator is better. Reason being is the fact that if its thicker you can retain more coolant compared to a thin rad. Therefor you will be able to maintain a more stable temp
Hi! Thank for you the great explaining :)
If you have the time to make a video on how common rail diesel engines work, it`d be great! I`ve heard some feedbacks that that system is less reliable (fails more than a regular TDI or DI) - do you think that is correct? Thanks!
thanks man good and detailed
explanation
Great job buddy leant ALOT
i came here because I want to make my water cooling fan colder, bcz in iraq its really hot, i loved the way you explain the concepts you gave me very good insights, thanks a lot
Great channel... keep it up.. bro..
nice one Very Helpful video. Thanks
When picking a radiator for a swapped vehicle, should you select based on the vehicle or the engine? I would suppose the vehicle considering standard rad mounts but the in/outlet may not be in the same positions on the swapped engine originally. So which would you rather have, vehicle rad + swapped engine + custom rad hoses, vehicle rad + swap + modified in/out, or swap rad + modified mounts?
thanks for the video , i have a question about fans and there efficiency. does the finger guard decrease the efficiency and if this is true how and how much
i can understand that if it would be able to retain the same amount of fluid as an oversized radiator. But form my experience, thinner radiators have never out performed my aftermarket ones on my cars and even dirt bike. With my thicker radiators im able to maintain a cooler running temperature compared to what i would with stock. I guess im just having a hard time understanding how a radiator that does not hold as much coolant as a thick radiator would offer better cooling.
What about the effectiveness of air flow from electric fans being attached directly to the radiator vs. being attached to a thin shroud (1in or less) vs. a thicker shroud (3 or 4 inches thick)?
Hello from Dominican Repuplic! I really like your videos! Very informative!
I'm currently buildind a Dakar Race Car with my FJ Cruiser, so can I add multiple radiators to cool down the engine on extreme temperature enviroments? If so, how can I connect them ? can I use multiple raditors to cool down my transmission too??
Josemanuel Hernandez I think it'd be best to use a single radiator that's properly sized, and multiple fans, but yeah anything's possible.
JM
You could install additional radiators but one good one, with the proper fans and engine and transmission oil coolers, can be sufficient. See what other competitors have done. You might want to look into water-to-oil coolers. Those can be installed out of harm's way to prevent damage from rocks and stuff. Again, use fans and thermostats. Remember: Thermostats, gauges, warning lights and proper pumps for the transmission (if manual) and differential are always the best prevention.
I noticed that the inlet and outlet necks of the radiator in the video are in line with one another. Usually on a downflow radiator, the necks are in opposite corners of the radiator so that the coolant has to flow through the entire core. I'm wondering if your radiator has some kind of internal baffles that route the coolant through the core? Can you see any baffles if you look inside the top or bottom tank?
Very well explained 👍
Very Helpful video. Thanks
Thanks love your videos. It’s like having a virtual library full of encyclopedias. Do you determine what videos you put out based on other information videos you see that have been posted?
Ty ee for another good vid
Hi, I'm a PC enthousiast and with pc watercooling there's always the discussion about push vs. pull when it comes to single fan on a radiator. In this video you said pull is around % better. Could you please do a video on why pull is better than pull? Is this just a car thing because you already have airspeed from the vehicle moving? Thanks
I agree my Peugeot radiator works really well n it has a push fan design, mayb u can do a comparison video
+Unicorn Reviews The pull fan will suck air from the whole radiator area,but a push fan can only push air directly in front of it.
The fans here are surrounded with a cover, so all the air they suck goes through the radiator. If you imagine the same for a push fan, they would only push air from their own area and only some of it will be directed through the radiator fins. In a push fan radiator, the corners will have little moving air to take away heat, but in a pull fan model, the air is sucked more efficiently through the while radiator, no matter what shape it is really.
If you blow with your mouth, you cannot blow in all directions, but if you suck instead, air comes in from all directions.
I think the fact the rad is moving and the rad is so much bigger and shrouded is what makes it better, in a pc without proper shrouding the air pulls from around the rad instead of through, so in that instance push is better but using proper fan rad seating minimal difference like .2%
On pc pull is done so the rad will not keep dust in between.
for PCs it doesn't matter as much. for cars, there's a few things that change. the main one is that ideally you want the fan to pull air through the entire surface of the radiator so most puller fans use a shroud. without the shroud, you're only moving the air over the square inches of the fan itself leaving large portions of the radiator with no airflow. with the shroud you move air over more surface of the radiator increasing efficiency. well you can really only use a shroud behind the radiator because if you use a pusher fan with a shroud in front of a radiator you're blocking the natural airflow through the radiator while you're driving. Therefore you almost never use a shroud with a pusher fan so you end up with less surface of air flow which reduces cooling efficiency. none of this applies to PC cooling so you're going to have similar cooling with push or pull. The only difference then would be the fan blade design. most blades are designed to be pushers or pullers and will only work best in one direction. so while you may be able to reverse the fan by switching the + and - it might not move as much air. there's an easy way to tell if you want me to elaborate.
Than you for the great video, can you tell me please what is the ideal radiator temperature?
is 102 degree C after 1 hour driving on the highway OK or do i need to change the old radiator in my car?
So I have a offroad truck with an LS3 in it. It had a stock water pump and a 2 row radiator. It was getting hot when in high demand. I switched to a high flow water pump and it no longer got hot but it still got warm. I switched to a thicker 3 row radiator and it stays cool now. Your information is the opposite of everything that has worked for me over the years
@Engineering Explained you should do one on flat fan shrouds
Hey dude! Will you do a performance air filter video? Like K&N? I know you did the cold air intake, that's why I'm asking!
If I'm going to upgrade from a single core radiator to a multi core radiator, do I need a higher CFM electric fan because of the thickness of the multi core radiator?
But what about aluminum vs plastic? Aluminum tanks insulate less so they allow more heat to escape but it makes the engine compartment hotter right? So is there any performance gains worth the weight and cost, other than reliability?
GREAT STUFF.
What do you think of Evans Waterless Coolant? Jay Leno advocates it. Are there any drawbacks or is it really that good?
3:00 You also bite your nails?!!! im with you bru
Ha, anything can be bought.
is an all aluminum radiator a good upgrade on a stock motor? Or unnecessary overkill?
Only benefit from an aluminum radiator is better cooling if your stock radiator is clogged and is causing overheating issues. If you do get an aluminum one get the one with the biggest tubes you can, tube size is more important than row count. Too many rows and you get turbulence inbetween the rows which decreases your cooling capacity. You won't gain any hp or anything just by putting a new radiator in so if you're looking at getting more power then invest your money into a cold air intake or something like that. Most new cars have plastic tanked radiators so you may not even be saving weight.
chevelle19721 thanks for the input, man, but the only reason why I'm considering an aluminum radiator is because my car runs at just a tic passed the halfway point on the temperature gauge. I put a new, lower degree thermostat in there to no avail. It runs like a champ, but it has me extremely paranoid and scouring through the forums has got me nowhere.
A couple of mechanics say it's no worry while a couple of others say it is. What do you think?
if its still pretty close to the middle of the gauge i'd say its fine! I'd be worried if it was more closer to the upper limit of the gauge like 1/2 way between the middle mark and the upper mark under normal driving conditions. If you can get a real reading of the coolant temp that would tell you for sure if you're ok or not. The gauge on my car is like 20 degrees off but I know the coolant is at the proper temp because i verified it with my obd2 reader so i could see what temp the engines coolant sensor was saying and the engine coolant is right where it should be even though my gauge says the engine is 20 degrees colder! So it could be your gauge or sending unit as they could get less accurate as time goes on. For now i would just keep driving it!
Tommy Cruz -- if your was built within the past ten years, that temperature gauge is probably lying to you. If it's driven by the ECU, you have no idea what the actual coolant temp is. Car makers have gotten tired of ignorant owners complaining that needles move around and their car is overheating when it is in fact operating normally. They make the ECU show normal temp until the car is actually overheating. You'll need an ODB scanner plugged into the OBD2 port to get the actual temperature, or you'll need to install a real gauge using the temp sensor as the input.
Should do how does biturbo works...it would be awesome!
Great video! How would I connect this radiator to a computer PSU? Please help!
thanks bro. my bypass pipe flow broke near the cap filler as it is made of plastic and the radiator it self is made of aluminum with plastic tanks. And now i fix that pipe with the help of silicon ...is it fine or should i replace the tank or the whole radiator..?
Can i ask you? What tools for closing the Wavy Radiator?
I like the video very much as I do with most of your videos! I would like to know more about the correlation between the ambient air temperature and the flow rate. Honestly I get confused about thinking that the two- flow rate and ambient temperature must work together. It also seems to me the size of the radiator would come into play, a one-row and a four-row should have some consequence on the flow rate and the ability to tackle the ambient temperature. And lastly what are the benefits of aluminum over copper/brass? I think my old '70s cars had copper/brass radiators from the factory (?) !
Radiators flow what the water pump pumps.
Tubing size being equal, 2 cores dont flow more than one core. 2 cores the coolant is moving half as fast as one so cooling is increased by exposure to air area and time exposed.
Brother. So may I know if I shall stick to my car OEM plastic Radiator or the aluminum radiator which is available in the market with 2 rows or 3 ?
For cooling effeciancy ?
The fans suck air through the radiator, it's more efficient this way.
thanks for the explanation i just wanted to ask why f1 cars dont have a fan?also i couldnt find a detailed picture of a f1 cooling system i would be grateful if you can direct me.......
the coolant flow rate ? can i increase this with a high performance water pump ? novice here at modifying my 92 lx mustang any suggestions on the very best high performance high flow water pump ? good video thanks
Will running two radiators in series affect cooling? What about pressure? One would be stock and the second would be a smaller one with only an input and output port. The second one won't have a radiator cap. Coolant would flow to stock which has a cap and then to second one and then return to water pump. Will this affect anything? Like pressure? Will it make cooling better ?
What about reliability, Jerson? Does the aluminum radiator cracks? Besides how much more coolant does the aluminum radiator holds more than the stock radiator? Does the aluminum radiator make your engine last longer (all things being equal) compared to the stock radiator?
Hi, I am trying to install a TriCore 3 Row cooling radiator with fans in a 96 Corvette. It is also made for a 91-96 corvette. Do you think this is a good idea???????
How great is the temperature difference between the coolant once it is cooled? Lets say the coolant comes in at 200 F, what temp does it have once it leaves the radiator back into the engine? I'm just curious on how big that difference is.