The surprising amount of work there is in finishing a suit of armour
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
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Here I take the viewer on a tour of all the various pieces of my 1450 Gothic field plate armour. Although I now have all the plates, putting it all together in a usable way requires a lot more work.
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The amount of work that went into donning all those different costumes in that very first minute is incredibly impressive in and of itself.
"An armoured knight was the tank of the medieval battlefield". Meaning it also took a whole crew to keep it operational 🙂
The armour was done ages ago just that part is what took so long
As was the Melchett like 'nooo' for the ww1 uniform
Lindybeige is one of the most talented and original people on the website.
An (evil) wizard did most of the work.
One of my patrons has informed me that people have been leaving negative reviews on Google of my armourer's company, presumably after watching my video. I didn't name the company in this latest video, and this was a conscious choice, but from previous videos it is easy enough to find out what it is.I felt that my armourer's falling out with me enabled me to speak more freely, but my experience with him is a sample size of one, and to get the reputation that recommended him to me in the first place, he must have had many satisfied customers. These reviews do not strike me as fair, and they certainly aren't what I sought.”
You come off as passive-aggressive from my perspective.
You know you're extremely anal.
You're commissioning some mixture of art/cosplay/authenticity. Thar armourer can't read your mind.
You didn't go with the highest bid (even knowing your attention to detail/expectations).
We only hear one side of the argument in this video. I'm sure there are reasons why some things can't be done. I'm sure someone can't just add 20 hours worth of labor to a project and retain the same bid.
I'm sure the armourer deviated from the original plan in some ways. But knowing you, I'm also fairly sure there are some arguments about why it was done.
This sort of reaction is usually the norm online. Even when a presenter explicitly requests not to review bomb a bad business (see Mighty Car Mod's Engine debacle) parts of the audience will still feel the need to crucify anyone who they feel does anything wrong towards their favorite RUclipsr.
Hopefully the contingent is small but I do hope this does not cause any further drama and the bridge is just burnt, not leading to anymore bad blood.
I think it'd be described as, "the comments section is filled with stans, who likely don't understand the effort that goes into metal working, and almost certainly have no first-hand experience with it"
congratulations on completing your kit mine taking forever I'm about to complete my 1st century Roman legionnaire kit I'm have everything but I'm having a hard time getting a gladius at has a brass or bronze sheath I like I mean I can't have my pugio sheath have more details then my gladius
@@honeyforce996 If the armorer can't do what he promises, he shouldn't take the job. If he can do it still delivers the wrong thing anyways, then he's a poor craftsman regardless of his skill. Effort and experience have nothing to do with it - it's about not promising what you can't (or won't) deliver.
Don't forget to throw in some desiccant packets with your armor for storage. They'll soak of any bothersome errant moisture and help prevent spots in the future. No matter how well you think you oiled your steel, there will still be some spots that get missed. The desiccants will be an additional line of defense. Cheers!
I normally use old towels that are well oiled and just throw those on the armour. then before an event I spend about an hour or so checking everything and cleaning it up.
Or as a friend does it, hang it in the open, and check it once a week for small spots. spends about 5-10 minutes cleaning up the very few spots that arise.
@@thomasbessems1654 goodness, the sheer amount of work of having a suit of armor! If i ever get myself one, it will be aluminum.
@@merlinkater7756 Eh, it sounds like a lot, but I spend more time sewing parts of my own kit. An hour is nothing in comparison to all the countless other hours I've spend everything in reenacting
i coollect all the ones i get at my work and thropw them in old socks creating massive packs. works very nicely for my chainmail sack as its bothersome to clean
I'm not getting armour until I can also get a squire to clean it for me.
This little reference to Joerg Sprave at 1:16 was brilliant. Hadn't watched his videos for years now, brought back some fond memories.
Dude I know right? I searched the comments just to see if anybody else caught that because it’s two very different demographics XD
I love that he knows him.
this is the slingshot chennel
"And now to weaponize this silly hat into a deadly sling slot. HEahahahahaha!"
I was so surprised haha
@@Howlin000 I was like: "Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait... is Lindybeige watching the Slingshot Channel!?"
I feel like you have been much more patient with your armorer than I would have been considering the amount of instructions he did not follow.
I suspect that a large part of the problem is that it's a pretty small industry nowadays, so you don't have a wide range of choices, especially if you're determined to buy local. I mean, the population of England was a lot smaller in 1450, but I suspect that the percentage of that population who were armourers was higher.
Well that armorer knows that impatient clients who leave and go to someone else end up crawling back after a few months because every other armorer has a months long waiting list before you're even considered.
There's no "customer is king" in proper tradesmen. There's just no place for a moaning karen who expects a free cappuchino.
You either take what they give you and shut up - or you leave. God knows they can pick and choose their clients.
@@hiya2793 doesnt quite work like that, you pay for a service and he didnt get what he wanted so you either suck it up and take it or refuse and get it corrected end of the day armour isnt cheap and you get what you ask for, ive never had any problems with orders
@@hiya2793 If that armourer had pulled that trick in the past, he'd have been imprisoned or run through by some customer he screwed over.
@@catsabotage3362 For that latter thing it isn't a thing of the past. Eventually he and other "proper tradesmen" like him will pull this stunt with the wrong person and someone crazy is going to attack them. People get killed all the time for the dumbest stuff and in this case it's something very personal for some people and also quite expensive.
There's been a local story in my area of basically the same thing. Some person was getting the run around by some guy he paid to do a job that didn't get done, and he ended up stabbing the dude to death in the middle of an argument. There's nothing proper about bad business. I wish hiya! had the decency to name their business so we know which one to avoid.
It’s sad to hear all the things you didn’t get with your armor. Glad to hear in search of Hannibal is done though!
Now you just have to have it enchanted and you're golden.
Meh. Just have a dwarf enchant it. The runes are much more durable then the flimsy magic of the tall folk.
Make sure to get the right enchantments. Lindy is probably a dps so he'll need attack power abd threat reduction.
Be completely meaningless against Christians & also probably atheists like Lindy, very few pagan rabble around anymore for that rubbish to affect so not even worth the bother really
@@sir_slimestone3797 I thought he was support, bard or something.
Goodness working with that armorer sounds like such a pain. I mean Lindy is perhaps picky and precise with his wishes, (as a true knight should be!) but this lack of honouring existing commitments is just infuriating. A shame for he seems like a great blacksmith. I hope this isn't common in the industry!
Not even sure about being "picky and precise". Stuff like "fully enclosed" and "no brass nuckles, thank you" seem totally reasonable and easy enough to understand.
@@lunakoala5053 + first getting an estimate of 6-9 months and it ends up being 4 years would drive me mad.
I cant understand why it was a unilateral falling out on the armourers part. If I was spending that much cash it would most definately be a mutual falling out for sure.
@@BullDog757 Well, quite a few people looking for a graphic novel had a similar experience. ;)
@@hantms Fair enough. But I'd argue there is quite a difference between spending some money on a kickstarter project vs spending a fortune on a suit of armour. I'm a contractor and if I tell my clients their house will be done in 6-9 months and it ends up being done in 4 years I can pack up my stuff because I'll be out of business.
Regarding the "love hearts" on the gauntlets (yes,I am aware that he was making a joke): when you see heart shaped piercing decorations like that in medieval armour, they aren't hearts. They are linden leafs.
Why linden leafs? Because it is a reference to the Nibelungenlied; a myth in which the hero Siegfried ambushes and kills a dragon, and is immersed in the dragon's blood, which makes Siegfried's skin impenetrable. Except for a small part of his back which did not get any blood on it, because it was covered by a linden leaf that had fallen on him. That tiny weak spot is eventually his downfall, of course. Yes, it's a very similar myth to Achilles.
So the linden leaf shape is a visual parable associating or comparing the wearer and/or the armour to the impenetrable skin of Siegfried
Thank you for the info! Is that where the spade symbol comes from as well?
@@phlog_dog7336 I'm not aware of any direct link with the spade suit in a typical deck of cards. I do know that playing cards in the late 1400s (when the linden leaf decoration was in vogue on armour) were very different from modern playing cards; to the extent that most decks from that time didn't even have the modern four "suits"
But playing cards are WAAAAAAY outside any of my various fields of specialization as a historian. I tend to focus much more tightly on military matters, and matters directly related to military (such as metallurgy). So there could very well be a link I'm simply not aware of
That's pretty deep insight!
@@phlog_dog7336 when playing cards first arrived in Europe from the Ottoman Empire, the suits were cups, coins, staves and swords. These evolved into the modern hearts, diamonds, clubs and spades respectively. In Germany the spade symbol became a leaf. In France the club is a cloverleaf, which explains why the symbol used today looks unlike a stave or a club.
If you described something as "the King of Colours", I'm not surprised an armourer would have interpreted that as being Purple - which was, at that time, absolutely the king of colours.
Well purple doesn't exactly look like skin
Beige would get grubby pretty quickly.
That’s a very insightful observation!
I really don't think that lindy would just tell him "I want the king of colours!" and nothing else, expecting the armourer to guess he wanted beige. He probably said the word beige.
@@seyyednaqvi6760 well the armourer was specifically saying biege is a poor colour for pants on armour as people can't tell if you're naked
Search for Hannibal is almost complete, now this. And to think I was in high school when both projects started. Now I'm almost finishing my university course.
Same here
Life speeds up. Trust me.
And sorry.
@@lindybeige patience is the key to everything. Keep up the good work!
@@lindybeige Life is full of dissapointments, you just get used to them as you get older.
I finished a Phd degree in the meantime.
One thing that has always impressed me about Lindy is how he can talk for so long with so few edits. It's nice to know that when he wants to, he does in fact know the magic of editing.
that speaks to the the fact of how genuine Lindy is.
I was just about to comment about that as well. It's genuinely refreshing to be able to watch a RUclips video and see jump cuts only when they actually are appropriate. He'll even leave the occasional fluster in as well, and considering how articulate he is in general, it's not an issue at all. Compare this to some videos from other RUclipsrs where I had to stop watching after just a couple minutes due to the insane number of inappropriate jump cuts that would occur at a frequency between after every two to four words; at that point those jump cuts became a major irritation.
@@Direkin YES! Incessant jump cuts should be banned!
That armourer has a mind of its own. Sounds like my mechanic.
Edit : after seeing the welds, my mechanic is better.
looks like an attempt at silver solder without flux
@@cliveramsbotty6077 Looks like an attempt to give an absentminded and historically illiterate customer what the customer demands they ordered in the first place, after the historically illiterate customer didn't realize that what they had ordered (mid 15th century English pauldrons) don't have big stupid wings like that on them. Mid 15th century English armor ALSO doesn't have early 16th century Italian bellows-face sallets, but Lindy insisted on that, too.
I ordered a blued German gothic harness from White Rose Armoury, and it was perfect.
I *also*, however, had mine patterned after a specific, extant armor residing in a museum, and provided plenty of photos of it. Dave went even further and took his own initiative to contact the museum and get the curators to take even MORE photos and send them to him.
I am quite certain that Lindy, however, had a mental image in his own head of what he wanted, but almost NO photos or references to provide to Dave. And I am equally certain that Lindy changed his mind and made specific demands late in the process, when it was too late to implement them without starting over (and costing Dave TONS of material, time, and effort). I am quite sure the ugly welds are because Lindy asked for mid 15th century English pauldrons, Dave made mid 15th century English pauldrons, and Lindy was unhappy they didn't have the big fuckall wings on them, because Lindy doesn't know enough about the topic of 15th century European armor to know those weren't a thing on mid-15th century English armor. So Lindy whined about it, and the only way Dave could give Lindy what Lindy demanded was to either A) weld on the wings, or B) start over. B) is not a reasonable response to a customer failing to communicate what they wanted.
The difference between Lindy's armor and mine, is that I knew what I wanted, I wanted a historically correct harness, and I effectively communicated that desire to Dave.
Lindy appears to have had an idea in his imagination, wanted something wildly historically inaccurate, and failed to communicate effectively with Dave until it was too late, and then chose to whine about it.
End result is that I got a beautiful, perfectly fit harness, and Lindy got Dave's best attempt to meet Lindy's nebulous and shifting demands.
Looks as if it was an afterthought by someone who smokes too much pot.
I was a part-time mechanic and part-time welder at 12 while working for my uncles. My welds were better.
... Though it's been a decade and a half since I touched a welder so I can only lean on younger me to brag now lol
Oof, yeah, that can be annoying. I took my car in a bit ago to get an oil change and fix the evaporative emission system. Oil change I got, but the mechanic didn't want to do the evap fix. He insists it's not worth fixing -- it doesn't affect the performance of the car so long as I don't let the tank get under half-full and my state doesn't have emission requirements. Which is all well and good, but I wanted it fixed, specifically requested it fixed, and yet it was not fixed.
Armorer: "It'll be six to nine months"
Lloyd: "Sixty Nine months!!?"
Armorer: "No. Six TO nine months"
It was closer to sixty nine months after all
Yes, 6-2-9 months, 629 months
A Madagascar 2 reference? In this comment section? What a blessed day.
Erm. Covid?
@@stuartburns8657 The armourer works in his own workshop and has been pumping out bunch of stuff without having to take long breaks,what on earth does covid have to do with the armour turning into a 4 year project instead of about a year long one?
@@BarokaiRein He doesn't work on this own he has 2 other ppl under his employment.
Also he'd be of an age where pre jabs he'd have been in the risk demographic
A tip from a sailor: you do not need a full bow, a half-bow (correct name: single-slipped reef knot) works just as well and is easier to tie with one hand.
Arrr! That be some fine advice, matey
I’m amazed at your restraint for not naming this very unpleasant armourer in this video. I know he was in a previous video but even after all the unpleasantness and outright lies you’ve stayed very calm.
Can’t wait to see it all come together
White rose Armoury
@@deusvult8251
Thanks. We will never use them.
I heard, some years ago, the father of this armourer died, ( the father worked with his son in the Armoury) and he was totally devastated by his death... Perhaps he lost track after that..
Dave Hewitt
"Owner & Master Armourer"
Imagine knowing Lindy's reach and still not taking the proper care to ensure you deliver what was asked for.
Lindy is trying to be diplomatic and excited about his purvhasd but he is clearly not as thrilled that he ws hoping.
As a perfectionist myself when I saw his reaction to the elbows I felt so bad for him.
I’m surprised there was no naming and shaming in the video.
@@DrDeFord Lindy is a classy man.
He would have shouted the armorers name from the rooftops if he was excellent to deal with. He is discreet with his displeasure. Im sure if you were looking to have armor made and paid attention, you would gather which guy to avoid.
@@DrDeFord I'm not classy, it was White Rose Armory. Of course we only know one side of the story.
@@illustriouschin for those who know the other side of the story, well... Let's just say that you might see the situation in another light lul
I really really hope that all the setbacks from lack of respect from the armourer did not take away from the incredible joy this armour should give you. I am a perfectionist myself and to be quite frank, each of these breaks of the deal to get it how you wanted would have made me react in a way that the armourer would break contact looking at how he handeld such a fair person like yourself.
I mean come on, if I get this right he broke promise on: The time it took, the feet, the hands, both upper and lower arms, the whole style of the elbow, bad work on the shoulders and some incompletion on the leatherwork inside the helmet. And perhaps I even forgot one of the inaccuracys already by now. He may be good at what he does, but for all the things he doesn't do he is unworthy to be respected as a craftsman.
im under the assumption that he is a very busy person and that his also getting commissioned to build more personalized armor from a hundred more people because of the skills he has, but it is a shame that despite of the response and reassurance lindy gave to the dude it is as if he almost did those mistakes intentionally as an insult
thought i hope this isn't the case and that maybe he just shipped the wrong parts or something, but that's also just another one of my assumptions
@@lenny_1369 he'd also said hed only be working on lindy's armor after the one he'd been working on was done but then decided to take on more jobs during. Utterly irresponsible.
He clearly took shortcuts indeed.
I had less mistakes when I ordered a custom costume kit from china for what was very likely a fraction of the price. If a load of slaves can get the measurements for a custom order correct in 5 weeks, an actual craftsman can get the measurements right when he had 5 years and hundreds of times of the cash for the project.
@@zerentheunskilled Savage AND accurate!
This whole video is a summary of why it’s important to have the designs drawn out or specification lists created and have both craftsman and customer sign them before production begins. Prevents the customer getting a product that doesn’t match the agreement and prevents the craftsman getting slated online if the outcome doesn’t match what the customer decides they want 9 months after the agreement has started.
well, at least most things were written down as was said in the video ... but not following that is a stark move ... i mean, i was kicked around for not doing a 4mm but rather 5mm radius on some minor trim pieces of wood around the upper parts of a kitchen, so for trying something as big as this i'm pretty sure they'd chopped my head clean off :D
Bro you don't need the notary every time you're about to clean your bum. You can't get this many things wrong just by accident and what we need are decent people not another layer of bureaucracy to everything.
@@Omegaures bro if you go into life expecting people to keep their word you’re gunna have a rough time XD have a way to enforce them doing what they say is literally the most basic business arrangement and considering the cost of something like this you’re dumb AF if you don’t do it
At 20:30 I'm pretty sure what he is describing is a Ganglion cyst. They are not normally on the hand but they can be (I know because I had one). Upvote this comment not because I need internet points but because Lindy can actually have that fixed pretty easily at the NHS if he reads this and tells his doctor. Unless of course, his dedication to period accuracy won't let him get it fixed and he wants a tailored cyst bump on his armor.....I'd respect that honestly.
My guess is that's just a bone. I'm quite skinny myself, and right there is a bone in the hand that sticks up a bit, although not as much as Lindy has it, but I guess that can differ?
What I have learnt from this is that armour is expensive, takes ages to make, is full of disappointments, requires a squire to actually wear, but it does looks awesome.
A fair summary.
Shouldn't be any disappointments if he wants to stay in business!!!
And how would an armourer stay in business since 1984 if everyone had an experience as Lloyd describes?
Answer. By proving good HISTORICALLY accurate gear with high craftsmanship which speaks for itself via word of mouth and in person at shows and reenactment events etc.
That harness would be better suited in a D&D fantasy campaign.
2 sides to every story folks
@@stuartburns8657 Absolutely. This was a sample size of one - not scientific rigour.
I'd dispute the D&D bit, though. Dave Hewitt refused to do anything 'fantasy', and neither of us was after that.
@@lindybeige ok fair cop, an over exaggeration regarding the fantasy style 👍
39:42
I'm really sorry (and actually quite confused) that the armourer didn't observe your wishes accurately.
I find it crazy how much your armourer seems to have ignored your requests. I am not familiar with buying custom suits of armour, but a shop in any other industry behaving like this would probably see refunds galore and be out of business within a year.
As the saying goes "There's my side, your side and the truth."
Of course, here we're seeing Lindy's side and I'm guessing that if we saw the armourer's side as well things might make a lot more sense.
@@ZealotOfSteal
Keep in mind lindy doesn't actually seem bothered by it, he's not bad mouthing him or anything.
Infant he seems quite pleased with the armor.
@@coledibiase5971 he looked bothered to me.
@@ZealotOfSteal Lindy said that at least for some of the details he had told the armourer "on video, in text and by e-mail", and I highly doubt he would lie about that, especially since his entire case was not to bad mouth the armourer. He expressed his discontent, which is more than appropriate, but also praises the armourer's work in more than one occasion. I'd not leave any good word on someone who treats a customer like that.
@@Jixxor Yeah it is more of a "I am over-all pleased with the work to the point of I won't be bothered by a few things not being exactly as specified." One thing you always have to consider when working with an artist is how familiar they are with what you are asking them to do. At several points he mentioned this armorer preferred one type of armor over what what requested. It is entirely possible that after a couple attempts to craft what was asked and not getting it quite right he decided to instead turn around and band out something of excellent quality instead of mediocre but what the client asked for quality. Should this have been communicated? Absolutely but I suspect that is what happened with the various bits that are not exactly what was asked for.
I seem to recall it being advised to get bits of your armor made from different armorers known for doing particular bits better than others instead of the whole kit from one person. Obviously this would be somewhat slow since you would essentially have to wait for one part to be done then take that part to another person and say "I want X to go with this."
The leg bits other than the sabatons were excellent quality as were the front and back. Would have had him do the torso and legs, another armorer do the arms, and a helmet specialist do the helmet.
From the comments I'd thought Lloyd had ended up with a Godzilla costume instead of what he wanted.
Armorer: "Do you want me to X?"
Lindy: "No, I want you to do Y."
Armorer: "Okay, so I'm gonna do X."
It seems like he quoted a price too low, so then he had to make changes to try to get costs down. Skip the heel for the sabots, make open vambraces instead of enclosed ones, reuse brass knuckles from another project that apparently didn't work out, etc etc. They're all either steps that reduce the total amount of work the armorer needed to do, and/or reduce his cost in creating the armor.
Some of the odd changes in plan also kinda feel like they were repurposed parts from someone else's armor project.. Like why the heck would an armorer make extra brass knuckle parts? Just in hope that one day someone wants them? Considering how badly some of the parts fit (like the breast plate hitting collarbones), they really seem wrong size to begin and then tried to fit to different size while ignoring customer's complains. :s
@@Lanka0Kera exactly what I was thinking.
Gee i wonder why these projekts didn't work out...
Well stated, thanks.
@@Lanka0Kera Lloyd and the armourer went over the breast plate on a previous video, Lloyd didn't want the alteration done which would of made it more comforatable as it would of meant the armour wouldn;t of looked as nice.
I was wondering what was going on with this, and am very thankful for the update.
The global plandemic probably slowed work
Leather worker here... you are going to need a draw needle ( hook needle, McKay needle...) and a thin piece of suede or lining leather or kip stitch a cover to you glove ( a piece the same size and shape as the original piece that makes up the finger) stitch it in 1/4 inch or what ever you are comfortable with. then stitch that piece to your armor stitch with senieu or nylatex ( period vs something you can find) if you want permentant or cotton if you want something that will brake for sfeaty stitch at a rate of 8-6 stitches per inch or less because you dont want your finger to bend backwards if something happens use sheering for padding hide glue a spot to the wrist bone make a sheerling pillow if you plan on fighting in it. 23 minutes in whilst watching
can it bozo
lol
@@stansfieldmcelroy If you don't like it go watch more Winchester or Browning videos, or check out some more cult movies with shoestring budgets. There is no need for you to comment here, bozo.
Jerk needling the finger seems super labour intensive, and annoying for someone not used to them.
I think it'd be faster to just double needle stitch it, by just bending the leather where he wants the holes to enter and exit, and using a lower stitch density with some strong string.
No one's gonna see it, and I doubt it'll be under too high of a load
@@stansfieldmcelroy crackhead moment
A big problem with movie armor, even movie armor composed of fairly good representations of genuine armor, is that there is no (or almost no) understanding among movie makers that there were at least four very distinct and very different types of plate armor. There were the combat types - basic man at arms "Alemaine rivet" sort of armor; well made and flexible armor for the knight fighting on foot; well made, slightly less flexible, but more protective armor for the heavy horse armored cavalry; and the non-combat, very protective, but inflexible sporting jousting armor.
Mixing and matching pieces from those varied types can produce a very cosmetically appealing armor, but one which fails in practical terms.
All this nonsense with the armorer is a good reminder to ALWAYS ALWAYS have a written agreement with your contractors, especially for custom works
As a custom art maker, I'll tell you that the customer always benefits from a written record
He braised those hautes on because he forgot to put them on in the first place & rushed them together haha
@@AntiCliche I think it was probably because Lindy didn't ask for haute plates, and Dave didn't think to put any on, because Lindy asked for a 1450s English harness... and haute plates were absolutely not typical for English armor of that period. I can't think of any major sources indicating prominent haute plates on english gothic armor whatsoever. They occasionally had reinforces on the point of the shoulder that had an upturn on the inside edge that were sort-of kind-of like small haute plates, but I can't recall this being AT ALL typical of the contemporary harnesses, either extant or depicted in artwork.
I have seen *literally nothing* indicating Lindy asked for haute plates. So I think White Rose delivered what Lindy asked for (1450s English pauldrons) and Lindy demanded haute plates. The sloppy execution (totally out of character with EVERYTHING I have ever seen out of White Rose) might indicate there was some bad blood over the matter. If I were a craftsman who spent tons of time and effort to make something to the specification a customer gave me, only for the customer to then demand I do it over because it didn't match the specifications they didn't give me, I'd be salty, too.
Doubly so, if the customer then threatened legal action or to use their youtube reach to besmirch me unless I did the (extra) work to fix it (to a standard that wasn't in the original contract). Lindy doesn't SEEM like the type of personality to do that... but then again, Dave also seems like the type of person to take a LOT of pride in his work (and definitely not the type to ignore the customer and half-ass his commissions).
@@bronco5334 It would be interesting to see the other side but so far Lindy seems fairly responsible in his criticisms.
@@markgrehan3726 I disagree re: Lindy being responsible in his criticism.
There is no way you spend more than a couple days on the internet without knowing that a popular social media personality criticizing someone to that extent will lead to a virtual lynch mob and review bombing.
It is unthinkable that Lloyd, a major youtuber with years of experience in the inner workings of being a social media influencer, could possibly NOT have known what he would be kicking off with this video.
@@bronco5334 See the pinned message from Lindybeige, Honestly, I suspect that both are to blame for what seems to be a badly managed project but the Armour is meant to be the specialist and Lindy the customer and from what we see the customer didn't get what they asked for/wanted and as the saying goes the customer is always right.
For your gauntlets stitch the gloves to the end of the fingers. Add two leather loops to the gauntlet fingers.
The stitching keeps the armour over the end of your fingers and by having loops rather than stitching on the rest of the fingers will allow the gauntlets to slide as your hands close.
Take a shot every time the smith forgot something!
which caliber?
You would die of alcohol poisoning before the video ends.
You trying to kill folks??
No, I like my liver.
@@michaelkores6860 single malt.
The armorer did look like a lovely man, and his gritty demeanor made for great chemistry against your Python-esque one, so I am quite dissapointed that he didn't make good on so many points.
He seemed dour and grumpy to me to be honest..
@@Tom_Quixote dealing with entitled man-children who think they know more a craftsman who's spent nearly 40 years doing that? 🤔
For those less inclined or capable of digging around to scratch beneath Lindy's carefully curated viewpoint:
1. Lindy's design was a compromise and a mash-up of various styles. He states that we wanted to keep it British. Very laudable and he selected White Rose. Dave (the master armourer) had built up a well deserved reputation over many years. Bear this point in mind.
2. Lindy kept asking for revisions and alterations. Dave apparently tried to accommodate them where possible, but you'd be surprised how tight the profit margins are, never mind the time constraints. As for Lindy's assertion that he was told once started, that would be the only thing worked on is madness. Between fittings, customer delays, he'd soon be out of business.
3. Curiously, the early designs posted by Lindy on social media have DISAPPEARED..🤔 Said early designs didn't for example include the haute plates on the shoulders, and nor do any historical examples exist for the (granted) messed up style desired.
4. The collarbone issue. This is one area in which I think the armourer should have picked up on better. However, in one video (not deleted yet) you can see Dave being concerned and advising to cut away to avoid the CB's altogether. Lindy doesn't look too thrilled at the prospect, despite Dave assuring his you never notice nor see it.
5. The helmet. It is apparently the responsibility of the customer to arrange the final leather fitting themselves, just like it was for other aspects like shoes, trousers etc.
I feel that Lindy knew that by making that video bemoaning the outcome, he'd guarantee a % of less IQ gifted followers would blindly believe his version of events, snd or review bomb the business site.
Do I think the armourer is totally blameless? No, but Lindy is FAR from being the white Knight in all this
Oh god such a pity the armorer made such a mess of some parts, seemed like a good chap! Not for the feint of heart, is it this hobby? Well I think we're all perfectly happy to watch you slog through all the rest of this project, you certainly have the willpower! Good luck and may we all see you atop a horse all shiny one day!
For any large project, it is very important to have all the specifications in writing. After each meeting, he should written up what you had agreed and got you to confirm it. If you had had everything in writing agreed by both of you, it would have been very easy to just refuse delivery of anything that didn't match the specification.
It is important not to let people get away with things like this. He'll just keep doing it to other people if there are never any consequences.
In all honesty a couple of meetings doesn't seem enough for a suit of armour.
@@Cheepchipsable I think it was rather more than that. Presumably there was an initial meeting to discuss what he wanted and then there were at least three fittings, I think. And it sounds like there was further correspondence by email.
"not to let people get away with things like this"
The guy doesn't need nor care about some random influencers "exposure". Googling him he seems to have an excellent reputation and decades of experience and is well renowned worldwide.
Along comes some youtuber who's watched by a bunch of teenagers and wants a suit of armor.
Lindybeige moaned multiple times about price in the video, claimed guys in eastern europe can do it cheaper, and refused to pay full price to the other armorers who were charging apparently "outrageous" prices (but still have waiting lists of customers)
Chances are he haggled, started moaning about corners being cut - and in the end the armourer fired him for being a nuisance and not worth the hassle.
That's what probably happened. You get what you pay for and if you don't like it, you can kick rocks.
@@hiya2793 Whichever of them was in the wrong, getting everything in writing is still the solution.
@@hiya2793 hmm today i will reply to every post in this comment section defending a scammer
9:25 Well. what a sight to behold, the LindyButt!
an armourer getting a bunch of the customers requests wrong, that is extremely authentic! its ancient craftsmans tradition!
edit; And 6-9 months extending to 4 years! how authentic is that!!
Back then, there might also have been a very authentic - and unpleasant - ending for the craftsman.
Just a quick tip from someone reenacting that time period, the weight of the breastplate should not hang on your shoulders, it should rest on your hipbone. Try on both front and back and put a belt around the armor, on the height of the waist. Like modern heavier Backpacks with straps around the waist. It also helps with mobility in armor. If you don't mind german speaking channels take a look at ruclips.net/video/gHBugULWYHk/видео.html around the 40min mark
...what? The breastplate shouldn't even TOUCH the hips. It if touches the hips, you won't be able to bend or rotate at the waist. The narrowest part should terminate right at the bottom of the floating ribs (bottom of the ribcage). The natural waist, right around navel-level (as opposed to what modern people think of as the waist, IE the top of the hip bone, where modern pants are worn).
That said, it *should* ride fairly tightly on the (natural) waist.
Nerd fight! 😜
@@bronco5334 I believe that was a mistake due to a language barrier. I think he meant waist. He mentions a backpack which straps around the waist later in the comment and I think he used hips and waist interchangeably.
@@bronco5334 thx for clarification, resting on top of the hip bone is a more accurat description
@@CATGPlbCapacityPneumaticTireFo Possible. It doesn't help that "waist" has multiple meanings these days. Either way, a 15th-16th century cuirass should contact the body at the natural waist (bottom edge of the ribcage), not the modern pants waist (top of the hipbones)
23:58 This is why you get things in writing, This way nobody can say you didn't request.
Seems like Lindy made the mistake, that buying locally meant that you can trust the craftsman. Contracts exist for a very good reason.
@@SuperAd1980 then Lindy should take the consequence and sue for Services unrendered
I really appreciate the outfit swaps. Very fun editing.
“I need a squire”
Me, an American teenager from Texas: “Now this looks like a job for me”
"I can just put rivet heads in that don't do anything."
Lindy over here inventing studded plate armor.
Well, he did (re)invent plate-maille as a teenager (he has a video on it, too).
The armorer is both incredibly talented, but also is like "nah you don't get what you want, sorry"
Find that alot in craftsmanship...people prefer to make what they enjoy making or think looks good instead of what the customer requested.
I can't imagine paying for a special piece custom made bespoke item and then receiving "meh, I feel like doing this instead"
As a craftsman let me tell you that just because you want something doesn't mean it's a good thing or even if it's doable. Most people don't know what goes into making something how it's supposed to work, that takes time and effort that frankly most people don't have. Part of a craftsmans job is telling a person that what they want isn't possible the way they want it and finding alternatives that work. Many people don't want to hear that and demand that what they want is right regardless of their contradictory requests and lack of understanding. (For example like saying I want 1450's armor that looks like 16th century gothic.) Its contradiction so the maker either has to pick one and you are mad, try and match the crazy whims of the customer who doesn't understand what they are asking and then they hate it because it either doesn't work or falls apart because what they wanted wasn't feasible
This contradiction stikes me as incredibly British...lol Bless you for that Lindybeige.
@@lewisallan9963 lmao that's my experience with hairdressers
"what do you mean you want a historical hairstyle according to pictures you brought? I'm doing this 2000s hairstyle regardless! ..wait, why are you not content now?!"
My Sunday just got a little more beige. Fantastic!
i freaking loved that rotating costumes bit that was so unexpected and cool. i love this channel
Ive been spending the last few years watching your lectures before i sleep, you've been a pillar after often, a tiring day. Thank you for keeping my imagination alive
This video reminds me of a video Zac Evans made some time ago, regarding him recommending building ones armour bit by bit at different armourers. If remember correctly, his main point was, that craftspeople have their sweet spot in what they do (some imaginative amourer being better at gauntlets while producing rather questionable helmets or breastplates for example). Your story here seems to support this idea quite well. Whilst not wanting to nag on you, your story sounds like, could have gone differently if you'd have heard the alarm bells sooner and switched the armourer. I take from this video, that when I am going to order myself my kit of armour, I work with multiple armourers (which additionally might have the benefit of getting it earlier, as Toby Capwell mentioned one time). Anyway I wish you good luck with your armour.
Someone should make an online ranking list of which armourer to go to for a specific piece
As a counter argument, i would like to say that Ian LaSpina from the Knyght Errant channel had his entire armor build by the same guy, Jeff Wasson, and God, his suit of armor is kick-ass. But i guess that fact that his suit is made by the amazing Jeff Wasson, and build incrementaly over a long period of time kind of makes my point moot.
I wonder if there is enough demand for modern day armours that craftsmen could make some kind of network or online guild where they could specify their strengths, instead of one workshop making whole suit they could subcontract pieces, it would be more coordinated so the pieces would fit together and wouldn't be out of one craftsman's earnings.
@@MrDUneven I don't think the community is quite that large/developed.
It's your job as a professional to admit what you can and can't do. I won't tell someone I can do and will do something if I can't, that's why you have contacts so you can achieve what the client wants with a team. Instead of ruining your rep...
Until you get the padding sorted for your clavicles, try sticking sanitary towels on yourself where the damage occurs before suiting up. Apparently this is an old soldier's trick for coping with rubbing from a heavy bergen.
Yup, that is completely true - also used by deckhands to protect grazes and other assorted injuries minor and major.
since modern pads werent around then and women used just rags, what would be the difference between a sanitary towel and a rag for armor of this period?
@@mattrountree. A modern jam rag has an adhesive backing which will hold it in place.
Also heard that it is good for rifles that kick too hard. Wear it under your shirt.
What on earth is a santitary towel????!
It doesn't speak well for the armourer, that your armour has all these issues :/
Okay, after 90% of the video i can say: there is almost no part that is to your specifications.
Your armourer did clearly NOT work WITH you, Lindy, I would be furious, honestly
Also, armour bite should not be tolerated by your armourer. In a well fitting armour you will not get bruises as the video shows.
But the placement of the bruises also show that the torso armour isn't resting on the hip as it should be.
The time probably played into that. Lindy probably a different size when he was measured than when he finished.
@@PJDAltamirus0425 but the problem already existed previously, when the piece was fitted, didn't he say so?
@@bl4cksp1d3r idk, I just people can change sizes allot in four years, with Covid and all the crap the armourer probably had to go through cus pandemic, I think it would have been to start from scratch.
@@SozH The cuirass shouldn't even TOUCH the hip. The narrowest part should fit snugly against your body just below your floating ribs, about one finger width above the navel.
If it's on your hips, you're wearing it WAAAAAY too low. As Lindy clearly is in this video.
I’ve been a fan of this channel since I was 13 (23 yrs old now) and I have to say it’s sad to see this project not turn out the way you wanted. I have been waiting literally years to see your suit of armor get finished. I’m sure you’ll figure out a way to make it work. I don’t know if you’ll see this but thanks for the dope videos I’ve been enjoying for the past 10yrs. 👍🏻👍🏻
For those less inclined or capable of digging around to scratch beneath Lindy's carefully curated viewpoint:
1. Lindy's design was a compromise and a mash-up of various styles. He states that we wanted to keep it British. Very laudable and he selected White Rose. Dave (the master armourer) had built up a well deserved reputation over many years. Bear this point in mind.
2. Lindy kept asking for revisions and alterations. Dave apparently tried to accommodate them where possible, but you'd be surprised how tight the profit margins are, never mind the time constraints. As for Lindy's assertion that he was told once started, that would be the only thing worked on is madness. Between fittings, customer delays, he'd soon be out of business.
3. Curiously, the early designs posted by Lindy on social media have DISAPPEARED..🤔 Said early designs didn't for example include the haute plates on the shoulders, and nor do any historical examples exist for the (granted) messed up style desired.
4. The collarbone issue. This is one area in which I think the armourer should have picked up on better. However, in one video (not deleted yet) you can see Dave being concerned and advising to cut away to avoid the CB's altogether. Lindy doesn't look too thrilled at the prospect, despite Dave assuring his you never notice nor see it.
5. The helmet. It is apparently the responsibility of the customer to arrange the final leather fitting themselves, just like it was for other aspects like shoes, trousers etc.
I feel that Lindy knew that by making that video bemoaning the outcome, he'd guarantee a % of less IQ gifted followers would blindly believe his version of events, snd or review bomb the business site.
Do I think the armourer is totally blameless? No, but Lindy is FAR from being the white Knight in all this
The armor looks fucking sweet what do you mean?
@@stuartburns8657 Hi again
3:44 Lindyyy! I just came back from re-watching an older video of yours and started a spiral of catching up to the newer ones! Oh and yeah... that back fits you rather well 😏
A breastplate that chafes the collarbones
Custom-tailored trews that don't fit
Tassets lined in the wrong colour
Sabotons that aren't fully enclosed
Gauntlets that don't fit the contour of the hand
Missing spurs
Ugly brazed haute pieces
Fluting on poleyns not to specification
Anachronistic couters
Vambraces that aren't fully enclosed
Vambrace straps that don't match the others
Brass knuckles on the gauntlets
No cradle or full provision for one
And five to eight times longer than quoted
You heard it here first people, "Buy British!"
To be fair, some British armorers own a notepad that keeps them from forgetting everything though.
@@BryceNewtson I'm not a historian, but I believe notepad technology predates the time period of the armor by quite a few years.
@@Fetch049 notes can also be made using a feather and ink
@@kasperbuyens3562 yes. That's why 8 said what I did.
You forgot to mention as well, that the sabaton straps aren’t the right color… lol
5:00 To be honest, when you explained the seems around the shoulders.... I want that in everything now :O It looks so comfortable
1:17 Joerg reference, after all that comedy with outfit changing? We are barelly 2 minutes in, and you already earned a like.
My heart sinks every time you express some disappointment with your armour. I'm so sorry. How many times in a mans life does he get a full suit of armour?
Seems like such a wasted opportunity for the armourer too. This could have been a great advert for him, not so much now...
For those less inclined or capable of digging around to scratch beneath Lindy's carefully curated viewpoint:
1. Lindy's design was a compromise and a mash-up of various styles. He states that we wanted to keep it British. Very laudable and he selected White Rose. Dave (the master armourer) had built up a well deserved reputation over many years. Bear this point in mind.
2. Lindy kept asking for revisions and alterations. Dave apparently tried to accommodate them where possible, but you'd be surprised how tight the profit margins are, never mind the time constraints. As for Lindy's assertion that he was told once started, that would be the only thing worked on is madness. Between fittings, customer delays, he'd soon be out of business.
3. Curiously, the early designs posted by Lindy on social media have DISAPPEARED..🤔 Said early designs didn't for example include the haute plates on the shoulders, and nor do any historical examples exist for the (granted) messed up style desired.
4. The collarbone issue. This is one area in which I think the armourer should have picked up on better. However, in one video (not deleted yet) you can see Dave being concerned and advising to cut away to avoid the CB's altogether. Lindy doesn't look too thrilled at the prospect, despite Dave assuring his you never notice nor see it.
5. The helmet. It is apparently the responsibility of the customer to arrange the final leather fitting themselves, just like it was for other aspects like shoes, trousers etc.
I feel that Lindy knew that by making that video bemoaning the outcome, he'd guarantee a % of less IQ gifted followers would blindly believe his version of events, snd or review bomb the business site.
Do I think the armourer is totally blameless? No, but Lindy is FAR from being the white Knight in all this
Chances are the armourer has clients out the ass unless they're completely un-known - but they're not, they're one of the best in the world and their reputation is excellent...
So if anything i'd guess, considering other clients worked out just fine, and considering lindybeige moaned about the price multiple times in the video-
He probably tried to haggle the price and the armourer cut corners and eventually fired him for complaining too much and not being worth the hassle.
Huge congratulations on getting the graphic novel finished, and it’s awesome to hear the armor is coming along well!
To be fair, it’s just the script that’s finished. The artist still needs to compose and draw all the pages, which will take even more time but at least he’s got the raw data to get cracking on that.
@@Muljinn correct, I just meant his part
Are you sure you've received the correct suit of armour? It's so out of spec I find it difficult to believe any worthy craftsman would deliver this final product.
I think we’re finding out he’s not a worthy craftsman.
I seem to remeber i saw an interview with the guy who made it before and he gave the impression he thought he knew better
@@Ukraineaissance2014 i got that impression early on as well
@@Ukraineaissance2014 If you are going to accept someone's money, you can just warn them of the pitfalls and give them what they want, (assuming there is no legal barrier on you).
Though on the other hand if you do give a customer what they want and they aren't happy, they can go around telling everyone how terrible you are at your craft, and your reputation may suffer.
It's like Brexit armour.
Lindy simply sew a leather flap up the outside of the fingers to then attach to the gauntlets.
A real knight would have a squire to do the outfitting
Fantastic! I’ve been waiting for the finish to this armor saga for so long I almost forgot about it! Good to see it completed!
I have very sharp collar bones as well, and my solution to the chest rig was making an under gorget for the cuirass to rest on, the gorget fits me perfectly and is made from several layers of a material called worbla. I can still move just fine and it doesn't add any bulk at all.
those gauntlets are absolutely beautiful, just incredible craftsmanship
Frankly, I'm surprised you got anything you wanted from that armorer at all!
For those less inclined or capable of digging around to scratch beneath Lindy's carefully curated viewpoint:
1. Lindy's design was a compromise and a mash-up of various styles. He states that we wanted to keep it British. Very laudable and he selected White Rose. Dave (the master armourer) had built up a well deserved reputation over many years. Bear this point in mind.
2. Lindy kept asking for revisions and alterations. Dave apparently tried to accommodate them where possible, but you'd be surprised how tight the profit margins are, never mind the time constraints. As for Lindy's assertion that he was told once started, that would be the only thing worked on is madness. Between fittings, customer delays, he'd soon be out of business.
3. Curiously, the early designs posted by Lindy on social media have DISAPPEARED..🤔 Said early designs didn't for example include the haute plates on the shoulders, and nor do any historical examples exist for the (granted) messed up style desired.
4. The collarbone issue. This is one area in which I think the armourer should have picked up on better. However, in one video (not deleted yet) you can see Dave being concerned and advising to cut away to avoid the CB's altogether. Lindy doesn't look too thrilled at the prospect, despite Dave assuring his you never notice nor see it.
5. The helmet. It is apparently the responsibility of the customer to arrange the final leather fitting themselves, just like it was for other aspects like shoes, trousers etc.
I feel that Lindy knew that by making that video bemoaning the outcome, he'd guarantee a % of less IQ gifted followers would blindly believe his version of events, snd or review bomb the business site.
Do I think the armourer is totally blameless? No, but Lindy is FAR from being the white Knight in all this
TIL, Lloyd's armorer does what ever the fuck he wants.
That joerg impression a minute in was hilarious. Lovely video as
always thank you for teaching
I was a tailor years ago and I had a Hungarian dance group bring me old pants and top and asked me to copy them. The pants were three squares of cloth that had the third square at the crotch . The were easy to move around in the shirt was more complex. It was squares as well that were gathered to fit the body.
Hi Lindy. I feel obliged to thank you for your videos. I found out your channel like year ago and it woken up passion in me i didn't know i have. I spent so much time during the year reading, watching and otherwise finding out stuff about history. I learned more about our past in last year than i did in previous 26 years of my life, pieces of puzzle that seemed uninteresting when "taught" to me at school suddenly started to fit together and honestly it's fascinating. I am most interested in ancient history, Greece and Rome in particular but it still was you who set me on that path and i am extremly grateful for that, it fills my life with joy. I am now in process of joining roman legion, can't wait for my calcei, let alone my lorica hamata. Please keep up the great work. Cheers from Bohemia!
I was beginning to fear you had abandoned this project, thank you for the update Lloyd.
Yey! Another 1 hour long Lindybeige video. Thanks very much.
That impression of Joerge was amazing
I make knives and other simple edged tools. I rarely take commissions nowadays as they’re a pain and I like to make what I like and people seem to like buying them, at least enough people to keep the doors open. When I do, however, I keep a written list of specifications received from the commissioning party. I would feel, deep in my soul, terrible for ignoring any of these directives. Admittedly there are far fewer things to specify in the production of a knife or a fro or a chisel, but still, I can’t imagine a client telling me they *specifically* prefer, say, no ricasso on their blade, and then giving them a blade with a ricasso and expecting to be paid for it.
Patience and understanding are two virtues, but you seem to be almost addicted by them to the point of disadvantage. Sorry your armourer did you like that Lindy, but I truly appreciate the top notch content and seeing what goes into donning a full harness of plate armor, even if it isn’t really what you ordered.
Total bummer.
I wonder how long until you own two suits lol
Nice armor, but it seems like the armorer just ignored most of your specifications. That's unacceptable in my opinion.
Took him over half a decade and ended up rushing it in the end anyway. Shocking
@@mitchrils just like Lindy did with the Hannibal script.b
@@NGCAnderopolis lol
For those less inclined or capable of digging around to scratch beneath Lindy's carefully curated viewpoint:
1. Lindy's design was a compromise and a mash-up of various styles. He states that we wanted to keep it British. Very laudable and he selected White Rose. Dave (the master armourer) had built up a well deserved reputation over many years. Bear this point in mind.
2. Lindy kept asking for revisions and alterations. Dave apparently tried to accommodate them where possible, but you'd be surprised how tight the profit margins are, never mind the time constraints. As for Lindy's assertion that he was told once started, that would be the only thing worked on is madness. Between fittings, customer delays, he'd soon be out of business.
3. Curiously, the early designs posted by Lindy on social media have DISAPPEARED..🤔 Said early designs didn't for example include the haute plates on the shoulders, and nor do any historical examples exist for the (granted) messed up style desired.
4. The collarbone issue. This is one area in which I think the armourer should have picked up on better. However, in one video (not deleted yet) you can see Dave being concerned and advising to cut away to avoid the CB's altogether. Lindy doesn't look too thrilled at the prospect, despite Dave assuring his you never notice nor see it.
5. The helmet. It is apparently the responsibility of the customer to arrange the final leather fitting themselves, just like it was for other aspects like shoes, trousers etc.
I feel that Lindy knew that by making that video bemoaning the outcome, he'd guarantee a % of less IQ gifted followers would blindly believe his version of events, snd or review bomb the business site.
Do I think the armourer is totally blameless? No, but Lindy is FAR from being the white Knight in all this
That's because you've never worked with anyone outside of walmart and amazon.
If you commission a tradesman, the customer isn't the king.
You take what they give you and you're happy and shut up, or you get fired. God knows they have enough clients who are happy to see you leave because it means they get bumped up the waiting list...
It's lovely to see your full kit! Shame you weren't able to get the set of armour as you had wanted. Honestly, I would suggest legal recourse against your armourer if he's unwilling to be amicable. emails are a proof of documentation in court.
With years in the making and having it custom fit I can't imagine it was cheap, especially with his shenanigans.
Does he need the press and attention? Let it go
@@twoonthewall Thousand upon thousands of pounds, and years of time lost to a project is nothing to sniffle at. Nevermind the fact that legal action isn't the same thing as a court case.
so you want to take this to a court just because armor weights and it has no steel knuckles? nice
@@eyepet2010 You have a rather shallow understanding of the video if that's what you took.
@@jamesmccomb9525 never mentioned a court appearance any legal recourse could end up costing more in damaged reputation than anything gained in remittance.
1.2Million subscribers & years of educating & entertaining us on RUclips, and yet not 1 UK programme maker or educational body have snapped Lindybeige up. The man is brilliant likeable & truly a national treasure who should be appreciated by a wider audience.
Agreed he should at least have a Radio 4 series.
He could have been contacted by someone and turned it down. He has complete freedom on his channel to make whatever content he wishes and answers to no-one. That might be important to him.
@@RahnekGaming He may also like to sit in custard while wearing a tin foil hat, but like yourself I have no clue what he is thinking and can come up with any type of scenario or excuse as well.
@@hiramabiff2017 Except your scenario or excuse doesn't refer to anything originally whereas mine did and makes sense. Don't be so butthurt that you made a stupid comment and got made to look stupid.
He gets more views on one video than some BCC shows get in an entire year.
Add some corrosion inhibitors to your oil.
Or just use high concentration corrosion inhibitors when you're buffing/cleaning.
Its incredible stuff in what it can do and how effective it can be, and it should make the armor much more robust against handling.
I second the desiccant, but you'll probably want more like a bucket of rechargeable desiccant seeing as the storage tote isn't going to have the greatest seal. I'd say do whatever you can to seal the tote better.
Was talking about your lack of armour updates with a friend of mine recently. I’ve been a keen viewer of your Chanel for quite a few years Lindy, you helped spark my love of history and have been practicing HEMA for quite a while now that I otherwise wouldn’t have got in to had I not been made aware of it’s existence by your Chanel! Thanks for the years of enjoyment
0:45 A dangly tie? SHAME! SHAME! Of course it had to be dangly to go with the suit, but Lindybeige in a dangly tie? Oh, the humanity!
Well remembered! Have a beige point. Yes, this was worn for costuming purposes, and does not represent a return to the dark times.
What I have learned from this video is that armourers are unpredictable and mercurial armour-fairies.
This one is a cowboy
The real lesson is to get your contract in writing including your specifications.
It happens a lot in the trades, the original money is long gone for him, he starts to feel embittered the job has taken so long. Armour like this is like building work, but without the infrastructure of ombudsman and so on. Really this sort of purchase needs project management, and probably bought piecemeal- certainly paid that way.
But- no doubt accurate to the medieval period, except with a few more professional standards, but alas higher pricing.
I think you should get those upper arm plates redone by someone else. If you wanted though you could sue to get your armourer to fix it or refund you enough to fix it up.
This happens with most tradesmen sadly, particularly old jaded ones. It isn't the same as doing it yourself.
In the late 15th and 16th century armorers in cities such as Milan could crank out armor impressively quickly. How? The had whole armor companies, which allowed them to have armorers specialized in making specific parts of the armor.
@@Specter_1125 Also a kingdom official’s demands are typically a bit more urgent than a commoners
Thats why you never pay the whole service. You should give half of it upfront and the rest when delivered. The guy expended the money and in his mind he is doing this armour for "free". So its easier to put it on the backburner for "when he has time for it".
i agree, buying the bits piecemeal would have been a lot better
@@Specter_1125 and guilds held up quality controls and standards- in addition to their cartel nature of course. Do you have any more details?
I loved that intro with the garb changes...followed by the Joerg impression. Awesome.
I just wanna say Lindy, you always have the most entertaining sponsored ads. There needs to be a "Best Ad" award for youtubers somewhere and you should be a candidate for that!
“I’m gonna sue that wizard” I laughed way too hard at that 😂
Listening how long it took and how seriously your instructions were followed I'm sure I would go for armour made in "eastern" Europe. You didn't get what you paid for. Anyway finished set looks very good.
I was thinking the same thing. If you pay only a third, that covers a bunch of flights, and I have a feeling that eastern Europeans care more about their customers, because they don't get as many.
@@sirtalkalot3211 don't know is it less customers but my brother in law got his armour in few months from Poland. Not as fancy looking, not so decorated but functional and used in proper heavy fighting.
@@empe3332 what I'm saying is, the demand is lower, that's why the price is lower.
@@sirtalkalot3211 The price is lower because wages in Eastern Europe are 1/2 of that in Western Europe. 1/4 if you're going to places like Ukraine or Belarus.
We have some pretty good armourers in Toledo, Spain too. Not sure about the price though but as far as I know they're very professional
When you said “let me show you it’s features” in a bad German accent, I laughed way too much. Would have never thought you watched his channel as well! Love your content!
Lloyd, this video is just splendid. I'm not talking about fancy, but for the content; the process of making a useful suit of working armour is an epic journey, and we're SO fortunate that you're sharing it - and your thoughts(and point of view) with us. Thanks for your work making interesting videos for us; you are INDEED a "Renaissance Man."
Sounds like you were paying for his hobby, rather than paying for a professionally made product! Looks pretty good, though.
Coif is unrealistic needs to be 30x more thick
Lindy made a video showing off the helmet a little while ago. The helmet was actually made so small that he can’t fit a proper coif
@@evanz9608 oh ok, I was just referring to a video I remember if a coif that he made that was comically over stuffed
Your armourer sounds like a huge pain in the ass, in all honesty
Finally, another really long Lindy vid
Lindy, there are carts that you can put behind your bike, in which you can put the armor box. Quite practical.
I am a long time member of a historical reenactment organization called the Society for Creative Anachronism. I have built myself a suit of plate. You are absolutely correct about the need for padding to take the weight of the breastplate/backplate. Ideally, you will also belt these pieces so your waist bears some of the load and the kit "floats" more at the shoulder and collarbones.
Edit: If you use this armor for reenactor combat, or even just for prolonged wear, plan on blowing out rivets and breaking straps. I would invest in a small (10 pound) anvil, some basic leather working tools, spare buckles, and a rivet setting kit for quick field repairs.
Also, I have never found a historical reference to indicate it was used in the past, but we always used an inner arming belt we threaded through loops attached to the tops of the legs to bear some of the weight.
We generally did not have squires to help us armor up, but two fighters helping each other get kitted works just as well.😁
You absolutely don't need any padding to take the weight of a breastplate or cuirass. We have no historical sources for such a thing, nor is it actually needed. A properly fitted breastplate rests on your waist. You're not going to need any padding.
@@joost1120
Well, I spent the better part of twenty five years fighting in plate, from my late teens to my mid forties. You want padding.
Your armourer seems to have forgotten a few things... but looks wonderful
Afew?! You mean 80%!!
White Rose Armory seems to have forgotten how to listen to the customer's requests
@@KaiWolf18 multiple times
For those less inclined or capable of digging around to scratch beneath Lindy's carefully curated viewpoint:
1. Lindy's design was a compromise and a mash-up of various styles. He states that we wanted to keep it British. Very laudable and he selected White Rose. Dave (the master armourer) had built up a well deserved reputation over many years. Bear this point in mind.
2. Lindy kept asking for revisions and alterations. Dave apparently tried to accommodate them where possible, but you'd be surprised how tight the profit margins are, never mind the time constraints. As for Lindy's assertion that he was told once started, that would be the only thing worked on is madness. Between fittings, customer delays, he'd soon be out of business.
3. Curiously, the early designs posted by Lindy on social media have DISAPPEARED..🤔 Said early designs didn't for example include the haute plates on the shoulders, and nor do any historical examples exist for the (granted) messed up style desired.
4. The collarbone issue. This is one area in which I think the armourer should have picked up on better. However, in one video (not deleted yet) you can see Dave being concerned and advising to cut away to avoid the CB's altogether. Lindy doesn't look too thrilled at the prospect, despite Dave assuring his you never notice nor see it.
5. The helmet. It is apparently the responsibility of the customer to arrange the final leather fitting themselves, just like it was for other aspects like shoes, trousers etc.
I feel that Lindy knew that by making that video bemoaning the outcome, he'd guarantee a % of less IQ gifted followers would blindly believe his version of events, snd or review bomb the business site.
Do I think the armourer is totally blameless? No, but Lindy is FAR from being the white Knight in all this
Wow! That guy who made the armour didn’t seem to be able to follow directions. It’s a shame you had so few choices in craftsmen.
Make a rag-in-a-can to oil your armour with. With a suitable large can it is super handy to oil lots of things iron/steel related.
I appreciate the JeorgSprave reference at 1:16.
Jesus the effort going in to this video :)
I feel like your armorer missed a really big opportunity in not really doing his best work on this. You’re kind of a big voice in the historical arms and armor community on the internet at the very least, and while the armor is beautiful, it’s a fairly scathing review. I hope it’s not normally this bad of course, but it is a crying shame
It’s a bit of that & a bit of you get what ya pay for, if Lindy paid the kings ransom guy it’d all most likely be exactly what was requested & probably done long ago, also a bit of get it in writing but some artist types flat refuse to do that & sounds like the guys a bit eccentrically motivated, many a twist betwixt cup & lip, hopefully it works out, if not hell I braze better then that I’m sure Lindy will be fine
@@patrickancona1193 but they agreed to a price, those craftsmen always want more money to do the job they were already paid for!
While the craftsmanship and finish is fantastic , neglecting to keep close notes of Lindy's requests and the lack of concern about total fit n finish speaks volumes about how the gentleman who did the work feels about his clients. Dude doesn't really care if they're happy so long as he gets to build the things he wanted to build when he was a kid. Like the work clearly has love poured into it , he just wasn't thinking about Lindy when he made it .
@@hughgrection7246 Or it's just reflective of what the craftsman feels about THIS PARTICULAR customer.
My armor from the same maker was PERFECT.
But I am quite certain Lindy made an ass of himself making last-second changes and requests. AND that Lindy has no damn idea what an armor of the period is actually supposed to look like. Or how to properly wear it.
The "badly brazed on shoulder guards" are pretty good evidence of this. Lindy (supposedly) wanted a mid-15th century English armor. Mid-15th century English armors don't HAVE these kind of shoulder guards whatsoever. That's definitely an Italian armor thing. And didn't really arise even in Italy until the latter half of the century.
So I would bet my *car* that Lindy told Dave that he wanted "mid-15th century English armor", Dave made proper mid-15th English pauldrons, Lindy threw a fit about not having big, historically-incorrect wings on the pauldrons, Dave tried to point out that wasn't a thing in the type of armor he'd requested, Lindy had a tantrum, Dave pointed out that the closest historical analogue would be reinforce plates that are bolted to the front/top of the pauldron, which sometimes had a (small) protective wing and offered to make the reinforces (an extra part) for extra pay, Lindy whined like a baby, and Dave said "fuck it" and gave Lindy what Lindy demanded. But Dave wasn't going to re-make a major part of the armor entirely from scratch, so he just welded the bits on to what he'd already completed.
My armor had ONE welded part: the bowl of the sallet. Dave advised me BEFOREHAND that he intended to make the sallet in two halves and have it welded together by a professional gas pipeline welder, then ground smooth, because in Dave's words "his shoulders are getting old and worn, and raising a sallet bowl from a single plate is a lot of abuse on him". I gave him approval to weld it, and the helmet was welded and ground smooth so expertly that I cannot tell, even at close inspection, that it was welded and NOT raised from a single plate.
Dave went out of his way to make things perfect for me, and I'm just some random guy, not a youtuber with wide media reach. I *really* doubt Dave just did a lackluster job on this project for no reason. I am QUITE sure that there was more going on behind the "poor product" than Lindy is letting on.
Incidentally, the German Gothic leg harness that is the cover photo on Dave's (White Rose Armoury) Facebook page are mine. They look perfect, match what I wanted perfect, and they fit perfect.
@@bronco5334 You made a LOT of assumptions there my friend. I'm not going to touch on each one , but I will say I am glad that YOUR particular piece turned out well , but the doesn't excuse the work on display here .
Historical accuracy aside, if a customer forks out the sum of a used luxury car for what boils down to a metal costume , then the customer is defiantly entitled to have what he asked for delivered, especially if the request is in acknowledged writing. If for whatever reason that isn't possible, the craftsman should take the time to explain why it can't be done so that when the customer takes possession of their incredibly expensive purchase , there is no buyers remorse like we see put on display here . The fact that Lindy is at all disappointed in what he received is unacceptable considering the amount of correspondence , and face to face consulting time there was put into this project. It's almost like the oversights where deliberate insults.
Padding the breast plate from your collar bone should be your top priority. Unfortunately it's a part of the body you can't train so people tend to break them a lot in sports. I know you said it's mostly for show but the collar bone is pretty fragile.
My father broke his doing a basic somersault when he was young. Now he has a visible bump there because it fused with an offset. Find it interesting how the body can heal such things.
I suddenly recall the childhood feeling of watching with envy and impatience as a friend unwraps birthday presents
On recalling the Excalibur film - you may need a good pair of sunglasses for a fight during a bright shiny day. Just imagine how many reflected sunlight would you be exposed to.
Armour or other equpment resting on your collarbones will always cause considerable damage, even with padding. The only practical way to wear this stuff is by taking the weight on the waist, with shoulder-straps/fittings only holding the equipment in, not up. Modern backpacks have large, padded, belts for that reason and the bag frame extends above the shoulders, so straps fitted there lead down across the shoulders instead of transferring any of the weight to them.
For those less inclined or capable of digging around to scratch beneath Lindy's carefully curated viewpoint:
1. Lindy's design was a compromise and a mash-up of various styles. He states that we wanted to keep it British. Very laudable and he selected White Rose. Dave (the master armourer) had built up a well deserved reputation over many years. Bear this point in mind.
2. Lindy kept asking for revisions and alterations. Dave apparently tried to accommodate them where possible, but you'd be surprised how tight the profit margins are, never mind the time constraints. As for Lindy's assertion that he was told once started, that would be the only thing worked on is madness. Between fittings, customer delays, he'd soon be out of business.
3. Curiously, the early designs posted by Lindy on social media have DISAPPEARED..🤔 Said early designs didn't for example include the haute plates on the shoulders, and nor do any historical examples exist for the (granted) messed up style desired.
4. The collarbone issue. This is one area in which I think the armourer should have picked up on better. However, in one video (not deleted yet) you can see Dave being concerned and advising to cut away to avoid the CB's altogether. Lindy doesn't look too thrilled at the prospect, despite Dave assuring his you never notice nor see it.
5. The helmet. It is apparently the responsibility of the customer to arrange the final leather fitting themselves, just like it was for other aspects like shoes, trousers etc.
I feel that Lindy knew that by making that video bemoaning the outcome, he'd guarantee a % of less IQ gifted followers would blindly believe his version of events, snd or review bomb the business site.
Do I think the armourer is totally blameless? No, but Lindy is FAR from being the white Knight in all this
Keen viewers of your channel discovered not to be in a rush years ago.
And hopefully there has been little complaint, the Odyssey has been worthwhile, and I know my measurements have changed since the beginning.
I do know, obviously, that it has not worked to plan, and at great time and expenses, but I deem it worthwhile.
Despite being a medieval and general historical enthusiast, I wouldn't go through the time and expenses even if I had both to do full plate.