I don't know if you and Patrick are on the same page. Patrick says that for right-eyed and right hand dominant players, your best shot is the backhand because your right eye is always facing the net and the ball. Your weaker shot is the forehand because right-eye is turned away from the net. In your video, you say that on the backhand, your non-dominant eye weakens your dominant eye's information. And so you have to keep your head more perpendicular to the net so both eyes have similar field of view and you have better depth perception. But this is not what Patrick is saying. He says that on your backhand, your dominant eye will maintain focus on the ball so your non-dominant eye information will matter less. So this is a better situation than on your forehand side.
Patrick is saying nothing about head position when the ball is still far away but I am aware that in that moment most players (including me) already tend to position the eyes incorrectly to judge the ball well.
Yeah, this is how I understand it as well. Roger Federer is left eye dominant which is supposedly why his FH was so good and also why he could get away with neutral or closed stances from that wing.
This is correct. Furthermore, the implications of this are on your stance rather than your head posture alone. So Patrick notes that a cross-dominant player can avail of neutral stance and later contact on the FH, but should try to take the BH (especially OHBH) in an open stance and therefore a little ahead. Federer, God's agent of tennis on this planet, nevertheless takes his BH in closed stance with a later contact point because that is how he trained and it worked for him. Patrick does not recommend that his (ranked junior) players replicate this in general. As a mere mortal GenXer who took up tennis late, I adjusted my OHBH to be open stance when time allows and find I get better contact and power as a result. Tomasz is right that Patrick's students are not representative of the masses. They are usually very high level juniors who have extremely wealthy parents or have won scholarships, and thus have access to loads of one-to-one tuition and court-time.
I saw Mr. Patrick's video some time back. Even though it's very impressive I struggled to implement his teaching. You explain it so well. Thank you Sir. Much appreciated.
A bit surprised by what you say ; a right dominant eye player should be better on backhand than on the forehand, especially neutral/close stance forehands. On your backhand you can turn more, as your dominant eye will be able to see the ball longer. It corresponds to my feeling ; right eye-d, I feel I lose track of the ball on my forehand during a short period of time until the ball is really close to me, especially when in neutral stance, and I feel better in open stance, keeing the head facing the net.
The first part of the video talks about keeping the head straight - eye dominance does not come into play at all at that time unless you turn the head slightly "wrong" so that you start to lose 3D depth perception. Every pro has their head COMPLETELY turned forward in the moment of preparation regardless of their stance or stroke. This is not what Mouratoglou mentioned at all. The eye dominance really comes into play when the ball gets closer. In most cases non-pro tennis players already make a mistake there as they are unable (also physically) to turn their body around 90 degrees and keep their head straight. Observe the pros from front view especially Djokovic, Agassi (find clips), Fognini, Wawrinka, etc - these are perfect examples - and notice how they keep their face completely forward while their body turns already 90 degrees - just like I am able to do on the forehand. ruclips.net/video/ql5xVpACt1Y/видео.html 95% of adult tennis players immediately turn their head slightly to the side as they start to turn and immediately lose 3D depth and speed perception. This is my point that no one mentions on RUclips, not even Mouratoglou. As for eye dominance as the ball gets closer, obviously it comes into play much more but learning how to position the head differently and using different stances for people who play tennis twice a week is completely unattainable. So why share advice online that 95% of the viewers cannot accomplish? Just to make yourself look smart? I am sharing simple tips where one even doesn't have to know which is their dominant eye and yet can improve their ball perception. I disagree on right eye dominant being better on the backhand. Most people (pros and rec players) are right-handers (85%), most are right-eye dominant and most have better forehands.
Haha so I spotted the sarcasm correctly when you were mentioning "Mr" Mouratoglou. Your video was basically a diss 😉 I do agree fully that a lot of his videos (including this one on dominant eye vision) are not useful for the large (recreational) audience. They are so generic and often unattainable as you say. They are very catchy and attractive but often misleading. And basically promotion videos for the academy. I appreciate your practical tips a lot more.
Your explanations are ultimately the best I could find on RUclips. Systematic, with begin and an end, with right tempo and balance between theory and practice. I came across one more guy who can explain well enough. The rest I came across are difficult to follow. Their stories are all over the place. You should give lessons to the other RUclips tennis trainers on how to share the knowledge and teach. Compliments for you!
Very good. I tried this today simply by thinking of using my left eye as the focal point on my 2hbh, thereby allowing my head to rotate a little more. Certainly easier to hit cross court using the Slinger. I’ll give it a go in play soon.
Great video as always! I find it quite interesting that you have more trouble "watching" your backhand than your forehand. In my case it is also the backhand but I am cross-eyed dominant. I think Patrick too mentioned that cross-eyed dominant players are usually better on the forehand side.
I find the statement that the signal from the non-dominant eye travels 15-20 milliseconds slower to the brain very interesting. Gould et al (2013) looked at hand reaction times when the dominant and non-dominant eyes were stimulated. They didn't find a statistical difference, although "the non-dominant eye typically had a faster reaction time" (1 ms in men, 6 ms in women). Half the neural retinal fibres from each eye cross over to the other side of the brain. The parts of the visual cortex where our visual field is mapped out therefore receive neural messages from both eyes. Thorpe et al (1996) among others established that the signal from the retina takes in the order of 30 milliseconds to arrive at the visual cortex. If there is indeed a 15-20 millisecond lag between the two eyes, our ability to track an fast-moving object through space is even more remarkable than I thought. Isn't there a simpler explanation for all this? If you keep your head facing forwards, you're more likely to hit the ball out in front (especially important for the one-handed backhand), and your head is more likely to be still, enabling better ball tracking and focus at the contact point and better balance as you play the shot. When playing a topspin backhand, the shoulders turn naturally, and it requires more effort to keep the head facing forwards than on the forehand side. As usual, Tomaz's advice is clear, helpful and spot on. References: Gould J, Ciuffreda J, Arthur B, Yadav N. Retinal defocus and eye dominance effect on eye-hand reaction time. Optom Vis Perf 2013;1(4):129-36 Thorpe SJ, et al (1996). Speed of processing in the human visual system. Nature.
Thanks for sharing the info! I have heard the slower transfer data number info a couple of times at various tennis coaches conferences so I don't have that reference, but the one I found online is this one: www.nytimes.com/1983/08/29/sports/sports-world-specials-131097.html In my experience we can only play tennis (or similar sport) well when the brain will have seen thousands and thousands of different balls flights and creates a huge memory of ball trajectories. Once we have them and the ball starts flying towards us the brain starts to COMPARE the current ball flight with its memory and tries to find the trajectory that is the most similar to the one we are reading. Once the brain finds it, it simply PREDICTS the future ball flight with very high accuracy and slightly keeps correcting the data as the eyes keep reading the ball's flight. We know that from experience; if you look at tennis beginners (can be adults), they move late and prepare late because they don't know (they can't predict) where the ball will end up. Their brain does not have any data to compare it with. When you look at a skilled player then KNOW very early where the ball will be in terms of direction and height of contact so they prepare and move early to intercept the ball there. So from my experience and at my skill level, I know with 90% probability (I am estimating) where the ball will be way BEFORE it crosses the net. In other words, I know in a split second where the ball will be and how it will bounce based on the initial trajectory if its flight and based on how it was hit (topspin, slice, flat). How do I know that? Because I've seen a very similar ball by now literally hundreds of thousands of times. (I am playing tennis now close to 40 years.) So my point is that I don't need to calculate the ball flight every time, I simply RECOGNIZE the ball's trajectory and predict how it's going to fly and the brain just slightly refines the timing as more data from eyes comes into it. I wrote all this to answer your question on how we can track fast moving objects. My hypothesis is that we don't have to track them so incredibly well and calculate how they will fly, we RECOGNIZE them by comparing the flight we see with the flights we have stored in our brain. I read a few research papers on ball tracking in cricket so you may want to look into such studies if this interests you. They even blurred their vision and best batters still hit the ball with very high percentage which suggests they don't track the ball so accurately but they predict the flight so well based on a few points of the trajectory they saw. That's why especially in tennis (and similar sports with balls) it is very important to play as much as possible in order to create a huge database of ball trajectories in your brain so that you can recognise them and that your brain can do the recognising and comparing process which is much faster than actually trying to calculate the end point of the flight reading the data fresh. Who is a better tennis player in most cases? The one who played more tennis in their life. That also applies to very early age, like up to 12 years old. Who are the top juniors in the country at age 12? The ones who played and trained the most hours of tennis by then. They will recognise the ball earlier and better and prepare and position better and time the stroke better and that makes all the difference at that age since they cannot hit many winners.
What a great answer! This resonates a lot with me and I can totally relate to it. It makes a lot of sense. I've read a book by a neuroscientist about the brain being a prediction machine basically. So it makes a lot of sense, and also explains why I can still play tennis at a pretty high level while I'm pretty much playing with one eye: because I've been playing tennis from age 5 and most 6 days a week until ag e 19 (stopped due to chronic back injury). Picked it up decade later and coaching now.
When we record the time from a visual stimulus along the optic nerve to the visual cortex ) a visual evoked potential) both eyes in a normal human have a latency of 100ms. any interocular difference of the magnitude you suggest would be abnormal.
"their dominant eye, which processes information 21 milliseconds faster than the nondominant eye". The eye doesn't process information, that's the job of the brain. I'll be generous and assume that the good doctor was misquoted.@@feeltennis
As a left-eye dominant rightie 3.5 player struggling for years to watch the ball better, I happened to watch Mouratoglou's eye-dominance video just before a scheduled tennis lesson. I asked my coach to work my backhand. When I consciously kept body and head facing the incoming shot, the difference was remarkable. I felt like was seeing in 3D. Suddenly I knew where to be and without thinking moved to an ideal hit point. I have always stepped across with my right foot to hit the backhand, but now I was moving laterally keeping shoulders and head facing the incoming ball, and stepping into the court for the swing. Late in the session I saw the ball almost frozen in space-time and for once really let go on a backhand ripping it cross court. My coach started laughing. "That looked condifent," he said. A couple days later I spent an hour on the ball machine to see if the effect was real. I still need to polish a lot, but the fundamental vision and timing wins are for real. Thanks for covering this topic.
Firstly - a very happy new year, and a big thank you for all your videos. They are tremendously useful for recreational player (and I watch keep coming back to them whenever I am struggling). This is an interesting topic. I had been struggling on my rh sbh for close to two years. I watched many videos including Mr. Patricks "The one-handed backhand: Tennis Masterclass" where the topic of eye dominance was introduced to me. Now I might have corrected many things over time, one drastic step thats working for me is - me turning sideways and forcefully facing the left fence and seeing the ball with my right eye. That really helps me timing the shot infront my body in most ideal contact point I can achieve (currently). Why I know it is working, besides other elements of my bh shot, is that the moment I stop doing it and start seeing the ball front facing, my sbh starts becoming sloppy and inconsistent. And immediately improves when I turn my face completely left to see the ball from one eye (right). I am not sure what's the reason why my shot improves, and feel dominant eye theory may be a plausible explanation. And I only started doing it (gaze shift) after watching Mr. Patricks video on sbh. Before any other reader wants to try this approach, I want to share - I do loose the ball for few microseconds when I shift my sight on it from both eyes to right eye - while taking backhand stance. Needless to explain myself that I am just sharing my experience - and that I am big fan of Mr. Tomaz, and for any other tennis video I watch, I watch his ones 10 times over (:
Hi Tomaz. For those of us that wear a baseball cap when we play, another trick to train our head to squarely face the ball might be to put a small piece of tape or whatever under the tip of the cap bill. It might work as a "sight".
Yes, covering one eye helps to "stimulate" the other eye and is usually done by covering the dominant eye so that the non-dominant eye really tries to make the best of its ability.
Thanks for posting. I find, when I remember to use it, just concentrating on my dominant eye makes me watch the ball better so my shots are better - whether I’m doing it right or not…& an FYI - Arthur Ashe actually talks about dominant eye non dominant eye while commentating a Borg Connors US open final (in 1976 i think). Wonderful commentary by the late great Mr Ashe.
YES, I only figured out my left eye dominant problem playing pool recently of all things. It explains a lot of my problems in both baseball and tennis as well. I've always been a bit more coordinated right handed, but a better ball striker left handed in all 3 sports. Always had a MUCH better 2 handed backhand in tennis right handed. Being right handed and left eye dominant sucks!
I am right eye dominant but actually see backhand better. I was told that I need to keep head more forward and not watch ball into strings when hitting forehand as that will cause non dominant eye to track the last second before contact and be late or too close to the ball.
I really struggle to understand what you mean when you say that on your backhand when you turn you head a bit, your left eye becomes the dominant eye. When you turn your head a bit and the ball is still a little further away (in tje example you mention) than you only see the ball wirh your right eye. I mean, just do it, turn your face a bit like you do in thr video (example around 10:00) amd close your left eye: you wouldn't see tj ball. So how can it become dominant? I myself am a right handed, right eye dominant player (high lebel junior player, coaching now), with a severe eye condition (keratoconus) which lead to me practically only watching with my right eye (and having a lot if trouble with depth). BUT my backhand has always been my best shot and it still is. So that would mean I keep my head perfectly straight? My forehand might me a bit more powerful (and more rotation, BH a little flatter) but I tend to make a little more unforced errors with my forehand, partly due do bad timing. In my view it's due to me being right eye dominant and with the forehand I turn my head a bit and since the left eye doesn't participate I just don't always time it as well as on the bh side.
There are two parts of the vision processing - when the ball is far away and when the ball is closer. When the ball is far away you need really good 3D depth perception. You will get it ONLY if your head is straight and eye are aligned. Eye dominance does not matter. If I start turning the head sideways too early, I will not perceive 3D depth well. You are arguing the second part of vision processing when the ball is closer. I do not argue that. You need to point your dominant eye to the ball more. But NOT when the ball is far which is what I do and I lose 3D depth perception. Not a single pro turns their head to the side when the ball is far. Their eyes and head and completely facing forward regardless of how much they turn their shoulders. Djokovic turns his shoulders close to 110-120 degrees on the backhand side and yet his face is completely forward. I can't even do that at home, my neck is not flexible enough - and I am involved in sports since childhood. You probably don't turn your head sideways early in the ball flight and you perceive 3D depth well. Once the ball comes closer after the bounce, you point your dominant eye to the ball more correctly and it works fine. Again, you are arguing a different point than me.
@@feeltennis Thanks for the in depth clarification! I'm going to be more aware of my head position on my forehand. It could indeed well be that I turn my head a little too early on the FH. BH I know I keep it facing forward until the last moment.
Very sorry to hear that, Ken. I would not think how to solve this "mechanically", meaning how to align the head, I would try to see and realize when do you see the ball the best, the most clearly. So you would find the right head position just subconsciously based on how your brain best processes information from the eye.
Oh yes, it's a very comfortable racket and also very light, the model is Volkl V-Cell 6: www.tennis-warehouse.com/Volkl_V-Cell_6/descpageRCVOLKL-VVCEL6.html. I use it for teaching to not strain my wrist and for making videos since white color stands out best on any background. For playing I use a 300g racket V-Cell 8: www.tennis-warehouse.com/Volkl_V-Cell_8_300g/descpageRCVOLKL-VVC8L.html
Usually there are problems with depth perception as soon as the head is tilted. Find videos of the pros from front view and observe how straight their head is. Some players do that more obvious than others, for example Djokovic is a perfect example of how he keeps both eyes forward on the ball on both groundstrokes because his head is so straight.
Why would the "back" eye be the one that is seeing the ball better, as you describe? Meaning I would think you would be seeing the ball better with the front eye more than the back eye. Like on your backhand, I would think you're dominant right eye would be better being in front as it is than in the back?? For example, you state that you are seeing the ball more with your left eye on your backhand.
Because the front eye is at an angle to the ball and the eye behind is actually "behind" the ball. So when one eye is an angle to the ball it will become "non-dominant" and just assist with 3D depth perception whereas the eye really behind the ball will become the main eye to judge the ball. So you don't want your non-dominant eye to be behind the ball.
@@feeltennisI understand the logic of what you’re saying (similar to sighting a rifle), but I’m not convinced our eyes/brain actually work that way-this feels like conjecture. I have astigmatism-and my R/L views are markedly different-so I can tell when I switch between R & L eye dominance fairly easily. Naturally I’m R dom, and it’s true in some situations I seem to go to L dom intuitively (and of course I can also force it with closing my R eye, refocusing, then opening my R eye), but the situations you described don’t seem to trigger that: e.g. turning my head to the left (whether focusing near or far), nor even sighting down a stick (…until one end of the stick almost touches just under my eye). So at my tested real world experience isn’t consistent with this model of yours. Also my game/striking results match PM’s advice-my (2h)BH tends to consistently make good contact, whereas my FH often struggled… and when I switched to default to Open/Semi-Open stance FH, it made a HUGE difference in solid contact rate. Even now, a year ish later, I occasionally get into a “contact” funk but it’s almost always correctable by focusing on seeing the ball all the way into contact, and it’s almost always my FH not BH. You do make an interesting point though about far reading vs near reading-it is possible far reading problems are independent of near reading issues, and that could be better/worse on the BH side. I’ll keep an eye out for that! One last note is it’s possible my eyes/brain just work differently because of the astigmatism, just relaying my experience and observations. Also maybe PM’s theory is wrong too, and coincidentally my astigmatism just has more distortion for tracking things on my right? 😅 Anyway, I really love your vids Tomaz… they’ve helped me a ton, thanks!
@750ml Thanks for sharing, it's good to have more information on how we perceive the ball in various ways. That's why I am usually suggesting to players to experiment themselves with different head positions as the ball approaches them and "see" what works best in seeing the ball clearly.
I really don't think there's much to the eye dominance theory of PM. If you have hit thousands of balls, your body will naturally put your head in the best position to be able to see the ball, as long as you intentionally try and track the ball for as long as possible.
Just improve your mobility to turn your head and the body will do the rest. If you are not able to trun your head freely and with maximum range the body automatically does not allow for opitimal unitturn/preparation as you would not be able to see the ball clearly. The example here with split screen shows it perfectly with the late backhand. So, it is way easier to imrpove via mobility then to complicate with "modern science"
No it's way easier to try and keep your head straight as you play and your neck mobility will gradually improve than to look for neck mobility exercises and set up a schedule for yourself and try to stick to it while juggling business and family life. Most adjust rec players play tennis twice a week, they will definitely not find time to do neck mobility exercises nor will they find the motivation to do them. But remembering to keep the head straight for a few minutes as they play is certainly doable. Or to practice in front the mirror 2-3 minutes per day. And secondly, the first part is to actually know that head & shoulder separation is an issue in the first place (I am probably the first of popular RUclips tennis coaches to point this out) but of course top coaches in tennis biomechanics know that for long time - Cyril Genevois is one of them, Google him.
I don't know if you and Patrick are on the same page. Patrick says that for right-eyed and right hand dominant players, your best shot is the backhand because your right eye is always facing the net and the ball. Your weaker shot is the forehand because right-eye is turned away from the net. In your video, you say that on the backhand, your non-dominant eye weakens your dominant eye's information. And so you have to keep your head more perpendicular to the net so both eyes have similar field of view and you have better depth perception. But this is not what Patrick is saying. He says that on your backhand, your dominant eye will maintain focus on the ball so your non-dominant eye information will matter less. So this is a better situation than on your forehand side.
Patrick is saying nothing about head position when the ball is still far away but I am aware that in that moment most players (including me) already tend to position the eyes incorrectly to judge the ball well.
Yeah, this is how I understand it as well. Roger Federer is left eye dominant which is supposedly why his FH was so good and also why he could get away with neutral or closed stances from that wing.
This is correct. Furthermore, the implications of this are on your stance rather than your head posture alone. So Patrick notes that a cross-dominant player can avail of neutral stance and later contact on the FH, but should try to take the BH (especially OHBH) in an open stance and therefore a little ahead. Federer, God's agent of tennis on this planet, nevertheless takes his BH in closed stance with a later contact point because that is how he trained and it worked for him. Patrick does not recommend that his (ranked junior) players replicate this in general. As a mere mortal GenXer who took up tennis late, I adjusted my OHBH to be open stance when time allows and find I get better contact and power as a result. Tomasz is right that Patrick's students are not representative of the masses. They are usually very high level juniors who have extremely wealthy parents or have won scholarships, and thus have access to loads of one-to-one tuition and court-time.
I saw Mr. Patrick's video some time back. Even though it's very impressive I struggled to implement his teaching. You explain it so well. Thank you Sir. Much appreciated.
A bit surprised by what you say ; a right dominant eye player should be better on backhand than on the forehand, especially neutral/close stance forehands. On your backhand you can turn more, as your dominant eye will be able to see the ball longer. It corresponds to my feeling ; right eye-d, I feel I lose track of the ball on my forehand during a short period of time until the ball is really close to me, especially when in neutral stance, and I feel better in open stance, keeing the head facing the net.
The first part of the video talks about keeping the head straight - eye dominance does not come into play at all at that time unless you turn the head slightly "wrong" so that you start to lose 3D depth perception. Every pro has their head COMPLETELY turned forward in the moment of preparation regardless of their stance or stroke.
This is not what Mouratoglou mentioned at all. The eye dominance really comes into play when the ball gets closer.
In most cases non-pro tennis players already make a mistake there as they are unable (also physically) to turn their body around 90 degrees and keep their head straight. Observe the pros from front view especially Djokovic, Agassi (find clips), Fognini, Wawrinka, etc - these are perfect examples - and notice how they keep their face completely forward while their body turns already 90 degrees - just like I am able to do on the forehand.
ruclips.net/video/ql5xVpACt1Y/видео.html
95% of adult tennis players immediately turn their head slightly to the side as they start to turn and immediately lose 3D depth and speed perception.
This is my point that no one mentions on RUclips, not even Mouratoglou.
As for eye dominance as the ball gets closer, obviously it comes into play much more but learning how to position the head differently and using different stances for people who play tennis twice a week is completely unattainable.
So why share advice online that 95% of the viewers cannot accomplish? Just to make yourself look smart?
I am sharing simple tips where one even doesn't have to know which is their dominant eye and yet can improve their ball perception.
I disagree on right eye dominant being better on the backhand. Most people (pros and rec players) are right-handers (85%), most are right-eye dominant and most have better forehands.
Haha so I spotted the sarcasm correctly when you were mentioning "Mr" Mouratoglou. Your video was basically a diss 😉 I do agree fully that a lot of his videos (including this one on dominant eye vision) are not useful for the large (recreational) audience. They are so generic and often unattainable as you say. They are very catchy and attractive but often misleading. And basically promotion videos for the academy.
I appreciate your practical tips a lot more.
Your explanations are ultimately the best I could find on RUclips. Systematic, with begin and an end, with right tempo and balance between theory and practice.
I came across one more guy who can explain well enough.
The rest I came across are difficult to follow. Their stories are all over the place.
You should give lessons to the other RUclips tennis trainers on how to share the knowledge and teach.
Compliments for you!
Very much appreciated, will do my best to keep sharing useful and applicable tennis tips!
Very good. I tried this today simply by thinking of using my left eye as the focal point on my 2hbh, thereby allowing my head to rotate a little more. Certainly easier to hit cross court using the Slinger. I’ll give it a go in play soon.
Thank you for all those videos throughout the years. Happy New Year to you and your family!
Very much appreciated and best wishes to you too!
Great video as always! I find it quite interesting that you have more trouble "watching" your backhand than your forehand. In my case it is also the backhand but I am cross-eyed dominant. I think Patrick too mentioned that cross-eyed dominant players are usually better on the forehand side.
I find the statement that the signal from the non-dominant eye travels 15-20 milliseconds slower to the brain very interesting.
Gould et al (2013) looked at hand reaction times when the dominant and non-dominant eyes were stimulated. They didn't find a statistical difference, although "the non-dominant eye typically had a faster reaction time" (1 ms in men, 6 ms in women).
Half the neural retinal fibres from each eye cross over to the other side of the brain. The parts of the visual cortex where our visual field is mapped out therefore receive neural messages from both eyes. Thorpe et al (1996) among others established that the signal from the retina takes in the order of 30 milliseconds to arrive at the visual cortex. If there is indeed a 15-20 millisecond lag between the two eyes, our ability to track an fast-moving object through space is even more remarkable than I thought.
Isn't there a simpler explanation for all this? If you keep your head facing forwards, you're more likely to hit the ball out in front (especially important for the one-handed backhand), and your head is more likely to be still, enabling better ball tracking and focus at the contact point and better balance as you play the shot. When playing a topspin backhand, the shoulders turn naturally, and it requires more effort to keep the head facing forwards than on the forehand side.
As usual, Tomaz's advice is clear, helpful and spot on.
References:
Gould J, Ciuffreda J, Arthur B, Yadav N. Retinal defocus and eye dominance effect on eye-hand reaction time. Optom Vis Perf
2013;1(4):129-36
Thorpe SJ, et al (1996). Speed of processing in the human visual system. Nature.
Thanks for sharing the info! I have heard the slower transfer data number info a couple of times at various tennis coaches conferences so I don't have that reference, but the one I found online is this one: www.nytimes.com/1983/08/29/sports/sports-world-specials-131097.html
In my experience we can only play tennis (or similar sport) well when the brain will have seen thousands and thousands of different balls flights and creates a huge memory of ball trajectories.
Once we have them and the ball starts flying towards us the brain starts to COMPARE the current ball flight with its memory and tries to find the trajectory that is the most similar to the one we are reading.
Once the brain finds it, it simply PREDICTS the future ball flight with very high accuracy and slightly keeps correcting the data as the eyes keep reading the ball's flight.
We know that from experience; if you look at tennis beginners (can be adults), they move late and prepare late because they don't know (they can't predict) where the ball will end up. Their brain does not have any data to compare it with.
When you look at a skilled player then KNOW very early where the ball will be in terms of direction and height of contact so they prepare and move early to intercept the ball there.
So from my experience and at my skill level, I know with 90% probability (I am estimating) where the ball will be way BEFORE it crosses the net. In other words, I know in a split second where the ball will be and how it will bounce based on the initial trajectory if its flight and based on how it was hit (topspin, slice, flat).
How do I know that? Because I've seen a very similar ball by now literally hundreds of thousands of times. (I am playing tennis now close to 40 years.)
So my point is that I don't need to calculate the ball flight every time, I simply RECOGNIZE the ball's trajectory and predict how it's going to fly and the brain just slightly refines the timing as more data from eyes comes into it.
I wrote all this to answer your question on how we can track fast moving objects. My hypothesis is that we don't have to track them so incredibly well and calculate how they will fly, we RECOGNIZE them by comparing the flight we see with the flights we have stored in our brain.
I read a few research papers on ball tracking in cricket so you may want to look into such studies if this interests you. They even blurred their vision and best batters still hit the ball with very high percentage which suggests they don't track the ball so accurately but they predict the flight so well based on a few points of the trajectory they saw.
That's why especially in tennis (and similar sports with balls) it is very important to play as much as possible in order to create a huge database of ball trajectories in your brain so that you can recognise them and that your brain can do the recognising and comparing process which is much faster than actually trying to calculate the end point of the flight reading the data fresh.
Who is a better tennis player in most cases?
The one who played more tennis in their life. That also applies to very early age, like up to 12 years old.
Who are the top juniors in the country at age 12?
The ones who played and trained the most hours of tennis by then. They will recognise the ball earlier and better and prepare and position better and time the stroke better and that makes all the difference at that age since they cannot hit many winners.
What a great answer! This resonates a lot with me and I can totally relate to it. It makes a lot of sense. I've read a book by a neuroscientist about the brain being a prediction machine basically. So it makes a lot of sense, and also explains why I can still play tennis at a pretty high level while I'm pretty much playing with one eye: because I've been playing tennis from age 5 and most 6 days a week until ag e 19 (stopped due to chronic back injury). Picked it up decade later and coaching now.
When we record the time from a visual stimulus along the optic nerve to the visual cortex ) a visual evoked potential) both eyes in a normal human have a latency of 100ms. any interocular difference of the magnitude you suggest would be abnormal.
www.nytimes.com/1983/08/29/sports/sports-world-specials-131097.html
"their dominant eye, which processes information 21 milliseconds faster than the nondominant eye". The eye doesn't process information, that's the job of the brain. I'll be generous and assume that the good doctor was misquoted.@@feeltennis
Yes, as always , you explain things much more clearly.
Thank you. I understood the concept of dominant eye but didn't know any drills to force myself to favor it when hitting.
I agreed! I tried Patrick's method and to fix the head but not easy. I figured out when I start to see the ball into focus it works!
As a left-eye dominant rightie 3.5 player struggling for years to watch the ball better, I happened to watch Mouratoglou's eye-dominance video just before a scheduled tennis lesson. I asked my coach to work my backhand. When I consciously kept body and head facing the incoming shot, the difference was remarkable. I felt like was seeing in 3D. Suddenly I knew where to be and without thinking moved to an ideal hit point. I have always stepped across with my right foot to hit the backhand, but now I was moving laterally keeping shoulders and head facing the incoming ball, and stepping into the court for the swing. Late in the session I saw the ball almost frozen in space-time and for once really let go on a backhand ripping it cross court. My coach started laughing. "That looked condifent," he said.
A couple days later I spent an hour on the ball machine to see if the effect was real. I still need to polish a lot, but the fundamental vision and timing wins are for real. Thanks for covering this topic.
Wonderful, thank you for sharing!
Firstly - a very happy new year, and a big thank you for all your videos. They are tremendously useful for recreational player (and I watch keep coming back to them whenever I am struggling).
This is an interesting topic. I had been struggling on my rh sbh for close to two years. I watched many videos including Mr. Patricks "The one-handed backhand: Tennis Masterclass" where the topic of eye dominance was introduced to me. Now I might have corrected many things over time, one drastic step thats working for me is - me turning sideways and forcefully facing the left fence and seeing the ball with my right eye. That really helps me timing the shot infront my body in most ideal contact point I can achieve (currently).
Why I know it is working, besides other elements of my bh shot, is that the moment I stop doing it and start seeing the ball front facing, my sbh starts becoming sloppy and inconsistent. And immediately improves when I turn my face completely left to see the ball from one eye (right). I am not sure what's the reason why my shot improves, and feel dominant eye theory may be a plausible explanation. And I only started doing it (gaze shift) after watching Mr. Patricks video on sbh.
Before any other reader wants to try this approach, I want to share - I do loose the ball for few microseconds when I shift my sight on it from both eyes to right eye - while taking backhand stance.
Needless to explain myself that I am just sharing my experience - and that I am big fan of Mr. Tomaz, and for any other tennis video I watch, I watch his ones 10 times over (:
Very much appreciated for sharing your feedback!
Hi Tomaz. For those of us that wear a baseball cap when we play, another trick to train our head to squarely face the ball might be to put a small piece of tape or whatever under the tip of the cap bill. It might work as a "sight".
Yes, covering one eye helps to "stimulate" the other eye and is usually done by covering the dominant eye so that the non-dominant eye really tries to make the best of its ability.
You're the best, Tomas! You really get it.
I appreciate that!
Thanks for posting. I find, when I remember to use it, just concentrating on my dominant eye makes me watch the ball better so my shots are better - whether I’m doing it right or not…& an FYI - Arthur Ashe actually talks about dominant eye non dominant eye while commentating a Borg Connors US open final (in 1976 i think). Wonderful commentary by the late great Mr Ashe.
Amazing that even that long ago someone was aware of eye dominance!
YES, I only figured out my left eye dominant problem playing pool recently of all things. It explains a lot of my problems in both baseball and tennis as well. I've always been a bit more coordinated right handed, but a better ball striker left handed in all 3 sports. Always had a MUCH better 2 handed backhand in tennis right handed. Being right handed and left eye dominant sucks!
I am right eye dominant but actually see backhand better. I was told that I need to keep head more forward and not watch ball into strings when hitting forehand as that will cause non dominant eye to track the last second before contact and be late or too close to the ball.
I really struggle to understand what you mean when you say that on your backhand when you turn you head a bit, your left eye becomes the dominant eye. When you turn your head a bit and the ball is still a little further away (in tje example you mention) than you only see the ball wirh your right eye. I mean, just do it, turn your face a bit like you do in thr video (example around 10:00) amd close your left eye: you wouldn't see tj ball. So how can it become dominant?
I myself am a right handed, right eye dominant player (high lebel junior player, coaching now), with a severe eye condition (keratoconus) which lead to me practically only watching with my right eye (and having a lot if trouble with depth). BUT my backhand has always been my best shot and it still is. So that would mean I keep my head perfectly straight? My forehand might me a bit more powerful (and more rotation, BH a little flatter) but I tend to make a little more unforced errors with my forehand, partly due do bad timing. In my view it's due to me being right eye dominant and with the forehand I turn my head a bit and since the left eye doesn't participate I just don't always time it as well as on the bh side.
There are two parts of the vision processing - when the ball is far away and when the ball is closer. When the ball is far away you need really good 3D depth perception. You will get it ONLY if your head is straight and eye are aligned. Eye dominance does not matter.
If I start turning the head sideways too early, I will not perceive 3D depth well.
You are arguing the second part of vision processing when the ball is closer. I do not argue that. You need to point your dominant eye to the ball more.
But NOT when the ball is far which is what I do and I lose 3D depth perception. Not a single pro turns their head to the side when the ball is far. Their eyes and head and completely facing forward regardless of how much they turn their shoulders.
Djokovic turns his shoulders close to 110-120 degrees on the backhand side and yet his face is completely forward. I can't even do that at home, my neck is not flexible enough - and I am involved in sports since childhood.
You probably don't turn your head sideways early in the ball flight and you perceive 3D depth well. Once the ball comes closer after the bounce, you point your dominant eye to the ball more correctly and it works fine.
Again, you are arguing a different point than me.
@@feeltennis Thanks for the in depth clarification! I'm going to be more aware of my head position on my forehand. It could indeed well be that I turn my head a little too early on the FH. BH I know I keep it facing forward until the last moment.
Very important tips. Thanks.
This video is very helpful as I lost my vision in my non-dominant eye due to cancer. Any recommendations for serving? Ken
Very sorry to hear that, Ken. I would not think how to solve this "mechanically", meaning how to align the head, I would try to see and realize when do you see the ball the best, the most clearly. So you would find the right head position just subconsciously based on how your brain best processes information from the eye.
Hi Tomaz, can we know what's your racquet? it looks so easy to use and lightweight, great for us, amateur tennis players.
Oh yes, it's a very comfortable racket and also very light, the model is Volkl V-Cell 6: www.tennis-warehouse.com/Volkl_V-Cell_6/descpageRCVOLKL-VVCEL6.html. I use it for teaching to not strain my wrist and for making videos since white color stands out best on any background. For playing I use a 300g racket V-Cell 8: www.tennis-warehouse.com/Volkl_V-Cell_8_300g/descpageRCVOLKL-VVC8L.html
@@feeltennis great! thanks Tomaz, always love your videos and the way you explain/teach us to play better tennis. Greatings form Chile, South America!
Does it matter if the head is vertical or can it be tilted to the side between vertical and horizontal angle but with both eyes facing forward ?
Usually there are problems with depth perception as soon as the head is tilted. Find videos of the pros from front view and observe how straight their head is. Some players do that more obvious than others, for example Djokovic is a perfect example of how he keeps both eyes forward on the ball on both groundstrokes because his head is so straight.
Why would the "back" eye be the one that is seeing the ball better, as you describe? Meaning I would think you would be seeing the ball better with the front eye more than the back eye. Like on your backhand, I would think you're dominant right eye would be better being in front as it is than in the back?? For example, you state that you are seeing the ball more with your left eye on your backhand.
Because the front eye is at an angle to the ball and the eye behind is actually "behind" the ball. So when one eye is an angle to the ball it will become "non-dominant" and just assist with 3D depth perception whereas the eye really behind the ball will become the main eye to judge the ball. So you don't want your non-dominant eye to be behind the ball.
@@feeltennisI understand the logic of what you’re saying (similar to sighting a rifle), but I’m not convinced our eyes/brain actually work that way-this feels like conjecture.
I have astigmatism-and my R/L views are markedly different-so I can tell when I switch between R & L eye dominance fairly easily. Naturally I’m R dom, and it’s true in some situations I seem to go to L dom intuitively (and of course I can also force it with closing my R eye, refocusing, then opening my R eye), but the situations you described don’t seem to trigger that: e.g. turning my head to the left (whether focusing near or far), nor even sighting down a stick (…until one end of the stick almost touches just under my eye). So at my tested real world experience isn’t consistent with this model of yours.
Also my game/striking results match PM’s advice-my (2h)BH tends to consistently make good contact, whereas my FH often struggled… and when I switched to default to Open/Semi-Open stance FH, it made a HUGE difference in solid contact rate. Even now, a year ish later, I occasionally get into a “contact” funk but it’s almost always correctable by focusing on seeing the ball all the way into contact, and it’s almost always my FH not BH. You do make an interesting point though about far reading vs near reading-it is possible far reading problems are independent of near reading issues, and that could be better/worse on the BH side. I’ll keep an eye out for that!
One last note is it’s possible my eyes/brain just work differently because of the astigmatism, just relaying my experience and observations. Also maybe PM’s theory is wrong too, and coincidentally my astigmatism just has more distortion for tracking things on my right? 😅 Anyway, I really love your vids Tomaz… they’ve helped me a ton, thanks!
@750ml Thanks for sharing, it's good to have more information on how we perceive the ball in various ways. That's why I am usually suggesting to players to experiment themselves with different head positions as the ball approaches them and "see" what works best in seeing the ball clearly.
excellent
Do you, or others, practice this (in a match ever) while bouncing the ball before you serve?
I really don't think there's much to the eye dominance theory of PM. If you have hit thousands of balls, your body will naturally put your head in the best position to be able to see the ball, as long as you intentionally try and track the ball for as long as possible.
Just improve your mobility to turn your head and the body will do the rest. If you are not able to trun your head freely and with maximum range the body automatically does not allow for opitimal unitturn/preparation as you would not be able to see the ball clearly. The example here with split screen shows it perfectly with the late backhand.
So, it is way easier to imrpove via mobility then to complicate with "modern science"
No it's way easier to try and keep your head straight as you play and your neck mobility will gradually improve than to look for neck mobility exercises and set up a schedule for yourself and try to stick to it while juggling business and family life. Most adjust rec players play tennis twice a week, they will definitely not find time to do neck mobility exercises nor will they find the motivation to do them.
But remembering to keep the head straight for a few minutes as they play is certainly doable. Or to practice in front the mirror 2-3 minutes per day.
And secondly, the first part is to actually know that head & shoulder separation is an issue in the first place (I am probably the first of popular RUclips tennis coaches to point this out) but of course top coaches in tennis biomechanics know that for long time - Cyril Genevois is one of them, Google him.
I’m ambidextrous and 3rd-eye dominant. 😉
😂