3 Ways To Expand Audio I/O For Recording, Live Sound, & Broadcast
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- Опубликовано: 4 авг 2024
- ADAT, MADI, and Dante are three powerful ways to add extra inputs and outputs to an audio interface or mixing console. In this video, you'll learn how to (and when) to use ADAT, MADI, and Dante.
Thanks to @RMEAudio and @SynthaxInc for making this video possible!
RME 12Mic Dante
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RME Digiface Dante
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RME MADIface USB
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RME Fireface UCX II
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Full Post: audiouniversityonline.com/ada...
00:00 - 3 Ways To Expand Audio I/O
00:32 - What Is ADAT?
06:02 - What Is MADI?
08:44 - What Is Dante?
11:35 - Recording Drums with ADAT, MADI, & Dante
13:03 - Sound Demo - Drums - RME 12Mic Dante
14:06 - USB 2.0 vs USB 3.0 vs Thunderbolt
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As popular as Dante is in the “pro-audio” world, a large or majority of broadcast AoIP infrastructure has been and is building out with other AoIP standards like Livewire, AES67, SMPTE 2110-30, plus Wheatnet and Ravenna. Livewire and Dante were invented at the same time on opposite sides of the Earth. All these standards’ proponents came together to standardize on AES67, which was finalized in 2013. AES67 itself may not be conveniently ideal as an AoIP basis for a facility, but it is excellent “glue” to tie together disparate manufacturers’ gear that may use differing AoIP standards.
We use both Livewire and Dante extensively in our various broadcast environments. They have distinct 'segment' associations; anecdotally, from what I've seen, live sound, comms/OBs and TV (in a more limited fashion) seem firmly in the Dante camp, at least in the UK. Livewire is much more heavily deployed in the broadcast radio and some audio transmission/conversion parts of our business. As a longtime user and deployer of both, each standard has pros and cons. We still use a massive amount of AES3 everywhere though. For a few reasons, I think it'll be a while before the biggest broadcasters rip and replace their entire core audio infrastructure with anything that's not.
Greets from a longtime TWIRT viewer 😄🤙
I'd wish you'd talk more about Dante, AVB, AES67, etc.
Always appreciate the knowledge share. this is above me so I'm really learning... thanks Kyle!
Thanks for watching!
Great video. Additionally, hats off to Ernesto. Killer drummer!
For those that are up for a more DIY approach using opensource software and commodity hardware this example:
For a community arts festival we set up a temporary radio studio and up to 6 "stage nodes" over a standard 1gbit ethernet network.
The central studio was streaming and recording the broadcast to the internet, while each stage node computer - controlled over remote desktop - recorded its own stage mix and pushed a stream over zita-njbridge to the studio. There we could then decide to mix them into the main broadcast. This was quite a flexible setup.
Some hick-ups with the network of course had to happen over the course of the weekend. We lost one or two nodes at some point, but they still had all their local recordings. So after the event all material + broadcast mix/presentation was available.
I've used zita-njbridge in the studio regularly to stream audio between machines. For instance to a separate computer running OBS where the audio from the main console can be combined and synchronized with video sources.
For ADAT - you can use ADAT via cat5 extender (there are also splitters) so you can get up to 100m distance. I have also some ADAT connection on 20m ADAT cable and it works fine. 5m limitation was established when it was difficult to build good quality optic cable. Now it is cheap and quality is superior :)
Thanks for sharing this info!
People do realize that ADAT is transferred through LIGHT right?
@@ytscksdabig1converting light to lower frequency electromagnetic signals and back to light is trivial... so you CAN send that stuff over CAT5e easily.
This is a lot of info I need, will watch several times. Thank you!!
Glad to help!
Superb explanation!
RME is just the best. Astounding possibilities!
I love TotalMix!
Thank you so much sir for your packaged information.
Great video! Thanks!
great video, very helpful
Glad it was helpful! Thanks!
Thanks for this great video! Actually I'm still using a Behringer x2442USB Mixer to record all my 10 mics from the drum kit! Getting a recording interface will make me need something like ADAT or Dante!🤘🤘🤘
The sound imaging of that drum track is fantastic!
Glad you like it! I have found that variations of the Glyn Johns Method for overheads often provide a good stereo image. Now, I just need some acoustic treatment in that room to help those cymbals a bit! You can learn more about this overhead method here: ruclips.net/video/5fVk9KRCDG8/видео.html
Thank you
me, a voice artist who has only ever used one microphone at a time: Wow, 64 connections, I could use that.
Bro u drop a lot of skills u are talented Artist.
Thanks, Nicholas!
I have a Motu LP32 ADAT USB interface, similar in function to the RME Digiface USB, allowing 32 in/32 out ADAT - but with built-in 48 channel mixer with effects (reverb, compression, EQ, high-pass filter, noise gate, 14 aux sends, 3 groups). I use it with four 8-channel ADAT preamps, as well as a USB connection to a laptop with zero-latency Waves plugins on Live Professor 2 (with acceptable overall latency with several channels and plugins running). Fun stuff! :)
RME Digiface USB is an audio interface so it should also come with a built-in mixer (TotalMix)
thanks !
Thanks for watching!
AES50 is another popular multi-track digital audio protocol that's used mostly by Midas and Behringer mixers. Although this protocol uses Ethernet cables, it doesn't comply with Ethernet standards and won't work with network switchers.
There is no such thing as an “Ethernet cable” in the same way there’s not an “English cable”, Ethernet is just a language - What you mean is a Cat5/5e/6/6a cable.
This may seem like a nitpick, but it’s a very common source of confusion when people are trying to learn about Audio over X.
Analog/Digital over Cat5 cannot be routed or switched. Digital over Ethernet can be switched, but not routed. And over IP can be switched and routed.
Understanding these layers properly makes design choice, and troubleshooting, far easier.
AES50 is a perfect example of this confusion - Many claim it is “Audio over Ethernet” when it is actually not. It uses some parts of the Ethernet “language” but with some of it’s own added parts, which is why it’s not switchable. It is Audio over Cat5, NOT Audio over Ethernet.
For reference, see the wiki page: “AES50 only employs the Ethernet protocol's physical layer (layer 1), relying on Ethernet frames to continuously stream audio data. A proprietary link layer (layer 2) implements a point-to-point audio transmission protocol.”
The physical layer referenced there is the CatX cables, which in this case is Cat5.
No mention of AVB which (with ADAT) has allowed me to aggregate 4 MOTU interfaces to build a 104 input audio interface.
Exactly my thought!
Nice video, clear explanation!
I'm thinking of getting Cranborne 500 series rack with adat it has 2 adat ins and outs and I'm planning to get RME ADI-2 pro to have onboard EQ for room and headphone correction and other features.
I noticed it has 1 adat in and 1 adat out so that's fine for 8 channel 44.1KHz transfer, but I would like to have 8 channels of 96KHz if possible.
What is the easiest/cheapest way to achieve this with RME ADI-2 pro?
Should I add RME USB digiface which has more adats and use that for 500 series rack?
Is there RME interface that can achieve this and have DSP capabilities of ADI-2 pro? (Especially the EQ speaker/headphone correction)
Thanks!
I believe the RME UFX III or the RME Digiface USB can accomplish this. There are links in the description.
Cheers.
Glad you liked this one!
Soundgrid as well.
Do you think the difference between analog and digital audio transfer is big enough to justify the cost? I’m using an iMac with Focusrite 18i20 and Genelec 8341a, thinking about upgrading to an AES/EBU interface. Thanks in advance!
It really comes down to the details of each situation. There are a wide range of benefits, but in some scenarios there’s no need for such flexibility and expandability. It sounds like you’ve found a need for it in your situation.
While it maybe recommended that adat (lightpipe) is 5 meters, I have run two lines at 20 meters each with no problems at all. Maybe the quality of the fibre. But i bought these on eBay as standard toslink connections... ran fine.
love this video! Thinking about getting the RME Dante interface you mentioned... how many channels of Dante at a time can you get from this interface? If you wanted to go past that limit, what's the best way to do that with the lowest latency?
The Digiface Dante can do 64 channels of Dante and 64 channels of MADI, in and out. So, 128x128 total.
in the RME ADAT -> Cranborne 500 rack outboard unit, when you route a track to a piece of outboard gear, would the cranboard unit's D/A converter convert the audio to analog for processing, then it's A/D converter back to digtal before sending back to the RME/DAW?
I have an apogee symphony desktop, but i haven't wanted to expand my unit via ADAT, because I'm worried I'll be spending all of this money on outboard gear, just to reduce the quality of my sound by having the tracks re-encoded from analog to digital with lower quality converters.
Yes. The Cranborne 500ADAT’s convertors will be used as you’ve described. Those converters are also very good though, so not a problem.
In general, the changes made with the outboard gear will be much more drastic than the difference in converters.
Can you please tell me how to expand focusrite 18i20 with a behringer umc 1820 with ADAT? I tried but the VU meter doesn’t show any activity of the digital port which were expanded with Behringer 1820.
Check out this video: ruclips.net/video/_JKWJAEa360/видео.html
I'm wondering, if I need just sending audio from my DAW computer to a broadcast computer, wouldn't the ReaStream plugin work similarly to what Dante offers, but without buying licences, etc. ??
There is at least 1 more popular ip audio interface - Soundgrid from Waves. It has even audio mixers and offers less round trip latency and free software base sound card for the computer
thx for the vid 👍 ... you was really well explaining Dante on the "RME Digiface Dante" interface and in most of all use cases a homerecording studio will be fine with the 64 IO´s of the "Audinate DVS" with 24Bit at 48kHz ... but whats with this scenario and the "RME Digiface Dante" interface without redundancy mode, "RME TotalMix" and in 24Bit with 96kHz - in combination with an Apple MacStudio - the "RME Digiface Dante" is connected with all 4 ethernet ports to an dedicated Netgear Switch which is only used for the Dante Audio Network in this particularly studio ... --> so: how many audio channels in 24/96 are going as max in & out of the DAW in this particularly setup??? 🧐 ... is it only 32 because the increased sample rate and RME is only using "Audinate DVS" (but for my understanding RME is claiming the "Digiface Dante" as 256 IO´s with 192kHz via USB - so it couldn´t be only 32, could it be?) ... or ist it 4 times of 32 audio channels because every single Dante ethernet port on the "RME Digiface Dante" is carrying 2x 32 signals in this sample rate to the the Dante Netgear Switch - and the "RME Digiface Dante" is putting all 4 streams of the single ethernet ports together to send it via USB to the DAW/computer ... 🧐🧐 ... thx for your response 🙂 ... your answer will help me to understand a little bit more of this world with Dante - especially Dant in combination with the ARM based Apple computers cause for my acknowledgement in the Intel based world there is a special Dante-PCIe-R-Card with a dedicated special Audinate chip an in to handle higher channel counts on IO´s between computer and Dante Audio Network - but since Apple has changed the chipset to ARM there is no more way to use this dedicated Dante-PCIe-R-Cards (only Focusrite has declared for now to deliver her "PCIeNX card" for ARM based Apple cpu´s in the middle of 2024) ... but some manufacturers like RME or Digital Audio Denmark has declared that their dedicated drivers like "RME TotalMix" or "DAD DADman" will be work with their Dante Interfaces very well in higher channel counts & sample rates up to 24/192 for IO between a Dante Audio Network and an Apple ARM-based computer via USB or Thunderbolt3 ... so is there no need to wait furthermore for a dedicated specific Audinate PCIe-R-Card in an Apple Mac cause it depends only on a driver? 🤔🤔🤔
❤ LOGIC PRO X
What's the latency on a setup like this?
It varies, but it’s a combination of the protocol latency (ADAT, MADI, or Dante) and the audio interface driver.
That means i don't need a new mixer in order to get more tracks for recording.
u need vitamins!! amino acids and a new haircut😂❤
Avb?
Where is AVB?
does dante able to send audio from afar? Example My house to my friends house?.
This is possible with Dante Domain Manager, but the setup and behavior is a bit different. Great question!
I think that's how Noah Shebib has his studio and Drake's home studio setup. He was talking about it on Pensado's place.
Theoretically, if both locations have a firewall/router capable of a site-to-site / IPsec vpn, that seems like it would work, but i imagine latency would become a problem. I wonder how that would compare to the Dante Domain Manager, though.
Either way, it would probably hinge on how good the internet connection is for both locations.
That would be a quite advanced application of a Dante network. If this is a casual thing, I would recommend just setting up an SRT stream between your houses with OBS or SRTStreamer. SRT supports up to 8 channels of audio, is easy to set up and can handle rough internet connections.
MADI and Dante are nice, but ADAT is definitely not dead yet. ADAT is very cheap way to provide short range (