Say what you want, Johnny Miller was a deadly iron player. Saw him stiff many a pin within 6 to 10 feet. and I’m not talking short irons either. Wasn’t very fan friendly but a pleasure to watch attack a golf course. You are a legend in your own right JM. Miss him broadcasting also. He called it like it was
I use that move. Helps prevent the hook, and feel a nice cut on the ball. I've also never heard anyone mention it, nor did I put much thought into it. Thanks Johnny.
I love listening to Miller for the economy of language. Simple points, clear and strong. I don't want to see my swing, and never have. It works sometimes. I love the game far too much for that.
I agree with you 100%. I seen my swing one time and instantly decided that i never wanted to see that hack ever swing a club again. I love playing golf and i dont want want to see anything discouraging.
Hey Johnny Leslie King wrote about this move. In fact he had golfers practice the finish in this manner before learning anything else. Love the info you are sharing. Allen Lenth
Hey Johnny, players from Nicklaus and your era set the golf swing back 30 years. From hinging the wrists early in the takeaway, square to square, upright swing plane to the reverse C finish, you guys really hosed the swing and the fundamentals that Hogan, Snead and Nelson established.
Dustin Johnson sets them right away! reverse C hurts your back but the Club travels square along the target line for 4-6 inches unlike the rotation move
A guy once went up to Hogan and said: "Mr. Hogan, can you help me? I hit my driver 250 yards and my 3-wood 230 yards with a fade. What should I do?" Hogan replied: "Go pro."
THE BEST LESSON THAT WORKED FOR ME FROM A PRO NAMED PAUL KERN. HE TOLD ME, STAND UP MORE, STAND CLOSER TO THE BALL, MAKE A SHOULDER TURN, DROP YOUR HANDS, AND FOLLOW THROUGH. IF IT'S MORE DIFFICULT FOR YOU THAN THAT, TAKE UP FISHING.
Love him or loathe him, you cannot dispute the fact that Johnny Miller KNOWS the golf swing. Keep up the great work, Johnny! Some of us have a huge respect for the body of knowledge you possess about golf, in general, and the golf swing in particular.
This is it! A fine underhanded release which makes it almost impossible to miss shot left. Trying to keep the palm of the right hand through the ball and up to the finish always square to arc to the swing. Maybe this is the most important golf video on RUclips.
@@paullee1521 ..the “skimming a stone” feeling. Do what Johnny says with left palm facing forward after impact, you’ll figure out the earlier part of the swing simply by trying out a few moves which would allow u to end up with left palm forward
Thank you! Have an upvote. Hogan's secret was his right knee moving toward the target and getting the lower body to start the forward swing once he got set at the top of his backswing.
.. spoiler alert: this whole “Hogan’s secret” is a marketing ploy. He has no more secrets than Sam Snead or Jack Nicklaus. It’s childish and naive to talk about it but hey don’t forget to pay your monthly subscription
Golf is about how good your misses are, so that’s why he didn’t win many majors compared to Nicklaus etc...Nobody hits 32 perfect shots 4 times a week.
I use the "curl" move a lot, and successfully. The ball comes off with a slight fade, and lands soft. Not so much with a driver, but with mid to short irons its a keeper.
On a somewhat related note, I was an immediate neighbor to former U.S. Open winner Tommy Bolt (deceased) at Black Diamond Ranch in Florida. I got to know him a bit. He CLAIMED it was he that spotted Hogan letting go of the club at or near the top with the last three fingers of his left hand (a golfing no-no). He claimed to have ended a longish Hogan slump with this revelation to him. Google Tommy on those last three fingers. He is famous for that advice. I have witnessed him go up to touring pros on the golf course there and correct them too on the tee. Fortunately for me, this is something I learned early on in my golfing life. It is very easy to keep slipping back over and over again into this bad habit. I've probably had to tighten them up again at least 100 times in my prime golfing days. And every time the game comes back almost instantly.
@@BytorTheSnowDog I have more stories than I have room or time to tell. That's because I was taught the game by Ivan "the terrible" Gantz in Elwood, Indiana. Ivan and Tommy were best buds on tour. Ivan told me all kinds of thing about Bolt and read me his letters from him. It was mainly because I knew Ivan that Tommy later took me in in Florida. Arnold Palmer once told Tommy, "always throw your club down the fairway, dumb ass".
The best move in golf is buy a $650 driver two $300 fairway woods one $275 hybrid Then a set of irons 5 thur PW for $2000 but you need three wedges for $500 and a $450 putter. This will make you the best $4125 golfer not including two more putters and a mid season driver replacement.
I'd love to see a golf match between The Hawk 9 (Hogan) - and The Desert Fox (Miller) in their primes on a tight course. Both were all about accuracy and ball striking. Both expected their irons into the green to be within a 15 foot circle. Great stuff here by Johnny
Hank MoHank What are you, a naturalist? It's golf my friend. One of these two had exceptional balance, hand eye coordination and timing. The other one is Johnny Miller.
Miller no doubt understands golf way better than I do. I'd have thought though that the release pattern and the orientation of the club at impact could be set independently from each other. Loved his description of it anyways though.
Clearly a deep astute understanding of golf and the mechanics of the swing. JM called golf without fear. Peter Alliss did as well but more with more humor. The old days for sure.
Hogan played golf from the right side, and played baseball from the left. Also, as a caddy, he would wait at the green and watch his player approach the green from 150 to 200 yards, giving him a different perspective than from the fairway, there seems to be more room from that view. I learned that on my own as a kid and it changed my game. Try it.
The real secret is hard work and practice, whether it is Ben Hogan or Moe Norman. They both hit millions of balls, but it needs to be focused and to achieve the goal of a better outcome.
THEIR ARE SO MANY VARIABLES TO THE GOLF SWING. ALL I KNOW IS I PLAYED AT FIRESTONE FOR 35 YEARS. EVERY YEAR THAT MR MILLER CAME TO PLAY IN THE GOLF CLASSIC, OR THE WORLD SERIES OF GOLF, MY FRIEND FRANK HARNED A OLD PRO FROM OHIO USED TO MEET ME WHERE MR MILLER WAS HITTING PRACTICE BALLS, AND I STILL REMEMBER HIS LONG IRONS WERE SO ACCURATE YOU COULD COVER THEM WITH A WASH CLOTH. I DON'T THINK MR HOGAN WAS THAT ACCURATE. SURE DO MISS HIM PLAYING THE GAME. WHATEVER HE SAYS YOU BETTER LISTEN. THANKS FOR WHAT YOU HAVE GIVEN US SIR...
why is he calling this a fade move? what if you hit it from an inside attack line? Isn't it as simple as the stone skimming move with the right elbow delofting the club face? honest question.
A fade is absolutely possible from an inside approach of the club head into the ball. An open club face will create the side spin to fade the ball. Inside to square to inside swing path is the key.
Johnny Miller is an absolute legeng in golf and knows more about the golf swing than 99.999999% of people in the golf industry today , "not a hard putt "every putt is easy from the booth Mr Miller 😅 great video .
the palm of hogan's left hand points to the target due to the pressure that he applies with the joint of his left wrist and the twirly move with his right arm is caused by releasing with the left side of his right forearm in the hitting area
This was the move that allowed Hogan to hit the ball as hard as he wanted without fear of a hook, but that one alteration is hardly the secret of Hogan's swing. As he said one time, if he wrote a book about all that he could say about the swing, it would be "this thick" and held his fingers 4 inches apart.
I still remember when Tiger was taking the tour by storm in the late 90's and early 2000's...an interviewer asked Jack Nicklaus about Tiger and Jack had nothing but the highest praise for him and then the interviewer asked Jack, So is Tiger the best ball striker you have ever seen? And without even taking a breath Jack answered, Oh No, that would have been Hogan.
There are different swing moves in golf, of course. I play to a 2 cap, so no, I do not know more than Miller. I do shoot in the 60's fairly frequently though. The engine of every type of swing, is the body's pivotal movement. In order to release to such a palm facing finish, means that your hands are less active through the ball's position. So the finish isn't a rolled over hand movement but simply completing the follow-through without manipulating the wrist or hands at any point of the arc swing. Golf is like playing hockey. In tennis and baseball, when you step into the swing, your stance is opening during that weight shift. In golf our feet are stationary. In hockey, they set their lead skate prior to the shot, and most actually lift their trailing foot through impact (somewhat like in golf.). Also, if the hands come near the thighs coming back down, it causes the club head to swing outward through the ball's position, and encourages a completed swing towards the target side of the player. Meaning the swing is faster and more powerful because it is complete on both sides of the body when completed, and no hesitation or stop, but is fluid on both sides of the player. Newtonian physics states that a change in direction creates acceleration. So that swinging outward of the club head is an acceleration aspect. THIS is why you don't have to swing hard to hit the ball far, just use proper swing mechanics. I am now 64 years old, and I carry 265-280 (depending on elevation and air moisture content). Course conditions dictate the run-out. Learn to pivot correctly. keep the hands close to the thighs, and limp wrist (relaxation), and let physics power to shot for you. Once learned, you can speed up the shoulders for more power. (Like Speith does.)
You’re a liar lol. A 2 hcp doesn’t shoot in the 60s “fairly often” otherwise you wouldn’t be a 2 hcp. If you are a 2 hcp then your golf swing must be Jeckyl and Hyde so people shouldn’t listen to you.
I looked at a lot of the swings of the Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus, Miller eras....many faced their left hands toward the target at their finish, including Palmer and Nicklaus. I think Johnny gives great advice but I'm not sure why that claim about the Hogan finish "no one when I played did that." I think it is simply an indication that Ben Hogan held off left palm facing the target, with a fade, on that famous 1 iron at the US Open.
The reason they do it is because they're all laying the shaft off at the top so they're below the swing plane and dropping the hands straight down to keep it there for the duration of the swing. The result is that when you finally get the face to impact, pulling the shaft parallel to the swing plane, you're doing so with a tremendous rate of closing on the face creating a natural draw. If you fully release the old way on top of that you risk snap hooking shots. You have to sweep under with limited release to control this Hogan/Sergio/Haney/08-13Tiger/Foley shallow swing. They still hit it super far in spite of a controlled release because they're able to fire the hips way out in front and still hit square thanks to the shallow shaft angle which naturally closes the face to square at impact.
Fading the ball from an in to out path is hogan's one of many moves, this was also Trevino's move as well. There are alot of ways to hit a golf ball and just because you don't agree on how to hit a draw or fade, I would like to see you win a major or a PGA tournament like Hogan, Trevino, or Miller.
I like Johnny Miller and I agree with what he's saying, but I think I think Hogan's secret was a cupped left wrist on the backswing (that stopped his hook) which results in your palm being faced towards the finish on the follow through. That is an iconic finish that I do see a lot of tour players doing now that Hogan started doing. Johnny definitely knows what he's talking about to all the haters and anybody that's played at his level knows something about the swing. Hate on me, I'm just a guy that likes golf. Peace.
Brave man saying he knows. I personally see mostly everyones finish in that "cut" position. Actually, I'm now working on a club twirl like Tiger's and I'm pretty sure it'll give me the 300yds I've been searching for.
No, of course it doesn't, but the move Miller's talking about revealed what happened before and at impact, Hogan cutting just enough under the ball to create a power fade. I'm interested in Hogan's performance (in colour) in Shell's wonderful World in 1965, available here on RUclips. Of course he's in his 50s then, he was drawing or fading his drives at will, but all his iron shots were beautiful draws. Have a look if you haven't seen it, ludicrously his entire magnificent round isn't shown by Shell, only about half of it.
That move is covered in The Golfing Machine. It would be either an Angled Hinge or Vertical Hinge release. Considering the shot it was an angled hinge release. No surprise he hasn't heard of it though. Even if he heard those terms, he probably wouldn't know what they meant.
@@terrybader8595so what's your record in the PGA or are you saying you know better than hall of fame Johny Miller that may hit his 7 iron farther than your driver? How's that slice coming?
People should practice cutting, hooking and hitting the ball straight. That is if they practice. You will easily learn that right palm up= fade, square = straight, down = draw. I suggest a visualization of the shot path since the hands do not have brains!
I don't think there is anything wrong in what Johnny is saying, I just think the title of this video is crap. In fact, anyone who talks about Hogan's secret is full of crap. Look up the simple definition of "secret." We have so much video of Hogan, and software to analyze the swing, what could he hide from us? The major keys to his swing are well known. He showed us how to swing the club in SHell's WWofG video. He wrote a book about it. Just because people can't copy it doesn't mean there's a secret.
A lot of Johnny Miller’s ideas about the swing are personal images or swing thoughts that mean something to him. It can be unintelligible to a lot of people. Learning to swing a golf club is very tough because of that, IMO. Hit down on your irons, for example. Lay the sod over or slightly brush the grass? Loved watching Johnny play or talk about the game.
For half a century The Golfing Machine has called this "angled Hinging". Over half a century ago Hogan talked about how he did not want his right hand rolling over his left. Arnold Palmer and Jim Thorpe exaggerate this "hellicopter" anti hook move. In His book on Hogan David Leadbetter not only talked about it but shows pictures of Hogan actually demonstrating this move but in typical Miller fashion he discovered "the secret" that no one has ever talked about :)
Johnny used to say things like " nobody did that " Which is just silly. Because lots of people did. I think that's the only thing that ever really diminished his comment was his over exaggeration of his point
I attribute years of torment on the golf course caused by me trying to mimick Johnny Miller's swing. I agree with most of the comments here that this is not Hogan's secret. Plenty of other good youtube vids show much more insight into Hogan's secret. Keep looking, just ignore this one.
It’s part of Hogan’s “secret”. The secret was eliminate the left side of the golf course, most golfers don’t have that problem though, so Hogan’s secret doesn’t help. And why would anyone mimic Miller’s swing? That early set and wild leg action is, well, I’ll call it unique. Nothing to try to emulate.
People just like to talk crap. Miller was great in his day. Saw him play many times in person. His videos are really informative and he is a good announcer.
Hogan used to hook so bad he almost quit golf - what Miller is describing allowed Hogan to swing freely without fear of hooking, he never allows his right-hand to go over the left, if that makes sense.
At Golf Swing Prescription, we teach Hogan's move in the follow through regularly...I just shot 69 at Pga West Nicklaus Private with 8 Birdies with this move..i love this Johnny!
Not so secret is that Hogan consistently attacked a target with a fade shot. Virtually took out 50% of area on the left side of it during the second half of his career. He was all too familiar with draws and hooks. He could set for those when the shot was demanded by circumstance. His not so secret methodology was utilized by Jack Nicklaus with great success. Many players take the same approach today.
"As G.S.E.D. (TGM): "angled hinging post-follow-through to stroke finish," inclusive Fundamental Attribution Theory of club selection (shaft length relative swing-plane & club face angle) to shot production-adaptation/manipulation-performance, specifically bi-laterally a, "full-roll/release," i.e., right index finger accumulator #3 turned-over/rolled as, "Primary Lever Assembly," relative timed participation with accumulator/pressure point #1 the Right Hand, &, "angled-hinge," (accum. #2 The pre-release secret, "Hogan feeling," per Mr. Hogan's telling us personally of his noted, "pronation," whether slice-fade-straight-draw-hook purposive swing adaptation, etc., the draw-pronation of non-hook & fade-pronation of non-draw facilitations What is the active participation of momentum from the top when Force = Mass X Acceleration?, the moment of inertia through the ball I as last pupil of Bobby Jones, Jr. heard so much a bout about; a swinger's Longitudinal Acceleration to a hitter's Radial Mass, a gain again, "From the Top;" "...Down, ...Out, ...Forward," to the intended swing-plane for the intended impact-separation sequence to the shot at hand, "'fore!," that Moment of Truth," IN VICTORIA GLORIA
AMERICANUM REX AUGUSTUS given that the programming for the shot power and direction is given to the ball at impact and prior to ball separation I fail to see how any additional hand action or alignments are relevant when the hands are head high in the follow through and the ball is already seventy yards down the fairway. Unless Miller’s reference is that Hogan’s hand position is a symptom of a Component Variation stemming from impact. I might accept that as the fade shot he claims it produces is itself a symptom of a ball flight produced through a few possible variations. The club face control being mostly a duty of the lead wrist flv obligation. I find it misleading that this Hogan-esque feature would be prescribed as a treatment rather than seeing it as a symptom of other conditions. Samenesses vs differences? Loosely. Leafs still suck, Go Vegas!!
Hogan fought the hook all his playing days, his driver was weighted to prevent a hook (even Paul Azinger couldn't draw the ball using Hogan's driver) he contorted his left hand to produce a fade, which contradicted with his over-powerful hooking right hand culminating in the "Hogan fade" a straight shot which fell to the right at the apex which was what he aimed at and named his clubs after. Therefore unless your'e also a natural left hander with a right hand hook don't copy Hogan,s swing copy his book instead.
Apologize for sounding like a JA in that first comment. Mr. Warren mistakenly wrote that assuming he was naturally left handed because thats how he started the game. Here is the answer from the 1987 video interview transcript GOLF: You were a natural left-hander who took up the game right-handed, weren't you? HOGAN: No, that's one of those things that's always been written, but it's an absolute myth. The truth is, the first golf club I owned was an old left-handed, wooden-shafted, rib-faced mashie that a fellow gave me, and that's the club I was weaned on. During the mornings we caddies would bang the ball up and down the practice field until the members arrived and it was time to go to work. So I did all that formative practice left-handed. But I'm a natural right-hander.
Sir Shanks a Lot No apology needed & thanks for the info'. Shocked to find his book was ghost written, thought Herbert was only there to help with the spelling, if it's from the horse's mouth then I must accept it! There is another story of an older caddie threatening to kick his ass if he caught him playing left handed in Gary Wiren's PGA manual but even he is sceptical about it!
STEVEN MCKECHNIE The partnership between Herbert and Mr. Hogan when they wrote the articles isn't well known. Tough to say how much was Mr. Hogans actual thoughts and how much was Herbert's interpretation of his thoughts. Seems that video is the sole source to find his pure thoughts. There's a Facebook Page that shares 160 short articles written by Mr. Hogan and his ghost writer (Tom Shehan). Still pretty Interesting facebook.com/benhogangolf
25 PGA Tour wins and 2 Majors, he probably knows a little bit about golf. Hogan fought a hook. Miller was simply showing a way he held the face open to keep the ball from going left.
Hogans real secret was that he learnt to play a fade which gave him the understanding of how to shape the ball both ways giving him control over it. Im pretty sure thats what he meant when he said he had a secret. The only way to improve is to experiment experiment experiment out on the course
How's this for a quick reply - yes you're right. Trevino's left hand faced the target after his swing too - I've always thought he had the best action of all - Hogan thought he was magnificent too, he would send Trevino his latest clubs to try out and give feedback. Miller's written extensively about Lee's game, It's baffling that he didn't mention him here.
@@jamesfitzgerald6636 that's the whole point. Johnny is talking about what players are doing "today" to hit a fade. What's really dumb is Arnold Palmer did this too like Lee. So basically all Johnny is really saying is that during his "era" it was more popular to play a draw than a fade.
He could have explained it to literally anyone, golfer or not. I think he believed that it would "level the playing field" too much? Or he just felt it belonged to him, but I tried some things I saw him doing with his wedges, and it quickly became clear that his grip was NOT used the way he said it was, and that 2 very specific things allowed him to repeat this every time, with one adjustment from longer to shorter clubs etc. Anyway. Post here if you want proof, or whatever. I'm done pushing it.
Lee Trevino made this move that he's talking about too...Nicklaus said he never wanted to feel the toe crossing over through impact either. It's just a "feel" that they had...through impact, they all release the golf club...It's just a passive release of the golf club..Also, I believe that Hogan got rid of his duckhook by simply cupping his left wrist at the top of the backswing...I took lessons from Harvie Ward, and that's what he taught me when I was young, and hit a hook. He said the golf swing is simply, "Toe up, toe down, toe up." The part that eliminates the hook is the "toe down" position at the top of the backswing...You will NEVER hit a hook with the toe down at the top of your swing. That's what Hogan did. Cupped his left wrist a little.
If you want to learn Hogan's real secret read "Ben Hogan's Magical Device" (subtitled "The Real Secret to Hogan's Swing Finally Revealed " by Ted Hunt.
I'm just tired of people saying to grip it in your fingers with your lead hand. It's a bunch of rubbish. Best golfer of all time (and I say that because he was the most humble, which tiger is not) Jack Nicklaus palmed it with his lead hand. I can't put a club in my hand with it resting on that heel pad. It changes my plane considerably and takes out almost all of the feel for distance. I'm sure plenty have grooved it over time into the fingers/heel pad, but naturally, we start gripping it with the palm for the most part. Best way to figure it out is to let your arms dangle and grab a club with the face pointed in the direction you have at setup.
It was going well until Johnny mentioned he was the first one to ever notice this 😂😂😂😂. While he's right, players are finishing more line this than they ever have, I've been in golf for 56 years and I've heard this before and noticed it myself when I was a kid playing in the 70's. It's not a new revelation. 😂 It's also a product of Hogan's very astute feel for the club head, what's known as club head lag, that controls club acceleration. He could swing the entire club through the impact area without the club head passing the hands until well after impact. His description of the grip pressure points in 5 lessons and power golf allow this to happen. If every amateur player would learn the points of grip pressure their games would vastly improve. Homer Kelley talks about this in the golfing machine. His pressure points are a little different but no less effective.
Great stuff. Always loved J.M. analysis and tournament commentary. Didn’t always sugar coat it and gave some tough love to the Pro’s. Love it..
Ken Venturi (CBS) and Johnny Miller (NBC) were my favorite analysts on PGA Tour broadcasts.
Say what you want, Johnny Miller was a deadly iron player. Saw him stiff many a pin within 6 to 10 feet. and I’m not talking short irons either. Wasn’t very fan friendly but a pleasure to watch attack a golf course. You are a legend in your own right JM. Miss him broadcasting also. He called it like it was
Yes sir!
Nicklaus said JM had the best iron shots he agrees with you.
I use that move. Helps prevent the hook, and feel a nice cut on the ball. I've also never heard anyone mention it, nor did I put much thought into it. Thanks Johnny.
I miss hearing Mr. Miller announcing PGA tournaments. He would sprinkle in tips and lessons. 👍👍
Roger that!
I love listening to Miller for the economy of language. Simple points, clear and strong. I don't want to see my swing, and never have. It works sometimes. I love the game far too much for that.
I agree with you 100%. I seen my swing one time and instantly decided that i never wanted to see that hack ever swing a club again. I love playing golf and i dont want want to see anything discouraging.
Hey Johnny Leslie King wrote about this move. In fact he had golfers practice the finish in this manner before learning anything else. Love the info you are sharing. Allen Lenth
Hey Johnny, players from Nicklaus and your era set the golf swing back 30 years. From hinging the wrists early in the takeaway, square to square, upright swing plane to the reverse C finish, you guys really hosed the swing and the fundamentals that Hogan, Snead and Nelson established.
Robert Badaracco Bingo.
Dustin Johnson sets them right away! reverse C hurts your back but the Club travels square along the target line for 4-6 inches unlike the rotation move
I know Jack was a terrible golfer lol
A guy once went up to Hogan and said: "Mr. Hogan, can you help me? I hit my driver 250 yards and my 3-wood 230 yards with a fade. What should I do?" Hogan replied: "Go pro."
I can go pro?
sorry not today
Johnny is the best golf announcer ever. Truthful!
Thanks. You added something new to my Hogan six decade study.
This 2nd time Ive ever heard anyone reference that cause its how I hit a fade.... Thanks Johnny!
If Mr. Miller is talking about golf, I am paying attention. Thank you for posting this.
nice for Johnny to share this.
THE BEST LESSON THAT WORKED FOR ME FROM A PRO NAMED PAUL KERN. HE TOLD ME, STAND UP MORE, STAND CLOSER TO THE BALL, MAKE A SHOULDER TURN, DROP YOUR HANDS, AND FOLLOW THROUGH. IF IT'S MORE DIFFICULT FOR YOU THAN THAT, TAKE UP FISHING.
I like it; I tried it and it worked fairly well. Will continue.
Love him or loathe him, you cannot dispute the fact that Johnny Miller KNOWS the golf swing. Keep up the great work, Johnny! Some of us have a huge respect for the body of knowledge you possess about golf, in general, and the golf swing in particular.
This is it! A fine underhanded release which makes it almost impossible to miss shot left. Trying to keep the palm of the right hand through the ball and up to the finish always square to arc to the swing. Maybe this is the most important golf video on RUclips.
The hands dropping feeling?
@@paullee1521 ..the “skimming a stone” feeling.
Do what Johnny says with left palm facing forward after impact, you’ll figure out the earlier part of the swing simply by trying out a few moves which would allow u to end up with left palm forward
Thank you! Have an upvote. Hogan's secret was his right knee moving toward the target and getting the lower body to start the forward swing once he got set at the top of his backswing.
I think it was cupping his left wrist
.. spoiler alert: this whole “Hogan’s secret” is a marketing ploy. He has no more secrets than Sam Snead or Jack Nicklaus. It’s childish and naive to talk about it but hey don’t forget to pay your monthly subscription
Johnny Miller is a legend. At the height of his game there was no one and I mean no one who could beat him including Niclaus or Trevino!
Golf is about how good your misses are, so that’s why he didn’t win many majors compared to Nicklaus etc...Nobody hits 32 perfect shots 4 times a week.
And a legend at the buffet table by the looks of it.
Johnny's problem was is that he couldn't putt!
@@scottbieber1731Hogan wasn't a good putter either.
I use the "curl" move a lot, and successfully. The ball comes off with a slight fade, and lands soft. Not so much with a driver, but with mid to short irons its a keeper.
On a somewhat related note, I was an immediate neighbor to former U.S. Open winner Tommy Bolt (deceased) at Black Diamond Ranch in Florida. I got to know him a bit. He CLAIMED it was he that spotted Hogan letting go of the club at or near the top with the last three fingers of his left hand (a golfing no-no). He claimed to have ended a longish Hogan slump with this revelation to him. Google Tommy on those last three fingers. He is famous for that advice. I have witnessed him go up to touring pros on the golf course there and correct them too on the tee. Fortunately for me, this is something I learned early on in my golfing life. It is very easy to keep slipping back over and over again into this bad habit. I've probably had to tighten them up again at least 100 times in my prime golfing days. And every time the game comes back almost instantly.
Most these people know nothing of the Bolt...Please share a story if have one!
@@BytorTheSnowDog I have more stories than I have room or time to tell. That's because I was taught the game by Ivan "the terrible" Gantz in Elwood, Indiana. Ivan and Tommy were best buds on tour. Ivan told me all kinds of thing about Bolt and read me his letters from him. It was mainly because I knew Ivan that Tommy later took me in in Florida. Arnold Palmer once told Tommy, "always throw your club down the fairway, dumb ass".
The best move in golf is buy a $650 driver two $300 fairway woods one $275 hybrid Then a set of irons 5 thur PW for $2000 but you need three wedges for $500 and a $450 putter. This will make you the best $4125 golfer not including two more putters and a mid season driver replacement.
Ben Hogan real secret himself and his love for the game golf. Please check out another video by him about leg movement. Superb player
I never knew he did this, but I do this move based on feeling to produce a certain shot. I typically do it if I hit a punch shot.
I could be wrong here, but I thought Hogan worried about a hook. Is this move him taking the hook completely out of the shot probability set?
J.M. , like him or not , has tremendous insight to the swings out there and could compete with any of them . IMO
I'd love to see a golf match between The Hawk 9 (Hogan) - and The Desert Fox (Miller) in their primes on a tight course. Both were all about accuracy and ball striking. Both expected their irons into the green to be within a 15 foot circle. Great stuff here by Johnny
Hank MoHank What are you, a naturalist? It's golf my friend. One of these two had exceptional balance, hand eye coordination and timing. The other one is Johnny Miller.
Miller was bloody great!
@@chompyb BS. Nobody's Ben Hogan. But, Johnny Miller was a fantastic ball striker. Saying anything to the contrary is pure ignorance.
It wouldn't be a match. Hogan would win going away.
Miller no doubt understands golf way better than I do. I'd have thought though that the release pattern and the orientation of the club at impact could be set independently from each other. Loved his description of it anyways though.
Clearly a deep astute understanding of golf and the mechanics of the swing. JM called golf without fear. Peter Alliss did as well but more with more humor. The old days for sure.
I love Johhny Miller. That old man can belt a magnificent iron shot with total confidence. We can only dream of doing this.
Hogan played golf from the right side, and played baseball from the left. Also, as a caddy, he would wait at the green and watch his player approach the green from 150 to 200 yards, giving him a different perspective than from the fairway, there seems to be more room from that view. I learned that on my own as a kid and it changed my game. Try it.
Johnny is left handed as well….hit a driver with just his left hand 230 in a clinic
Hogan once asked his caddie for the yardage and the caddie replied: "175, 176 yards to the pin." Hogan replied: "Make up your mind!"
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The real secret is hard work and practice, whether it is Ben Hogan or Moe Norman. They both hit millions of balls, but it needs to be focused and to achieve the goal of a better outcome.
Thanks Johnny. Always love your comments. Very insightful.
THEIR ARE SO MANY VARIABLES TO THE GOLF SWING. ALL I KNOW IS I PLAYED AT FIRESTONE FOR 35 YEARS. EVERY YEAR THAT MR MILLER CAME TO PLAY IN THE GOLF CLASSIC, OR THE WORLD SERIES OF GOLF, MY FRIEND FRANK HARNED A OLD PRO FROM OHIO USED TO MEET ME WHERE MR MILLER WAS HITTING PRACTICE BALLS, AND I STILL REMEMBER HIS LONG IRONS WERE SO ACCURATE YOU COULD COVER THEM WITH A WASH CLOTH. I DON'T THINK MR HOGAN WAS THAT ACCURATE. SURE DO MISS HIM PLAYING THE GAME. WHATEVER HE SAYS YOU BETTER LISTEN. THANKS FOR WHAT YOU HAVE GIVEN US SIR...
why is he calling this a fade move? what if you hit it from an inside attack line? Isn't it as simple as the stone skimming move with the right elbow delofting the club face? honest question.
A fade is absolutely possible from an inside approach of the club head into the ball. An open club face will create the side spin to fade the ball. Inside to square to inside swing path is the key.
Johnny Miller is an absolute legeng in golf and knows more about the golf swing than 99.999999% of people in the golf industry today , "not a hard putt "every putt is easy from the booth Mr Miller 😅 great video .
..no some putts are genuinely easy omg
Worked today Jonny thanks 👍😎❤️👏
the palm of hogan's left hand points to the target due to the pressure that he applies with the joint of his left wrist and the twirly move with his right arm is caused by releasing with the left side of his right forearm in the hitting area
This was the move that allowed Hogan to hit the ball as hard as he wanted without fear of a hook, but that one alteration is hardly the secret of Hogan's swing. As he said one time, if he wrote a book about all that he could say about the swing, it would be "this thick" and held his fingers 4 inches apart.
I still remember when Tiger was taking the tour by storm in the late 90's and early 2000's...an interviewer asked Jack Nicklaus about Tiger and Jack had nothing but the highest praise for him and then the interviewer asked Jack, So is Tiger the best ball striker you have ever seen? And without even taking a breath Jack answered, Oh No, that would have been Hogan.
I believe Jack also added, "easily" at the end of that response.
There are different swing moves in golf, of course. I play to a 2 cap, so no, I do not know more than Miller. I do shoot in the 60's fairly frequently though. The engine of every type of swing, is the body's pivotal movement. In order to release to such a palm facing finish, means that your hands are less active through the ball's position. So the finish isn't a rolled over hand movement but simply completing the follow-through without manipulating the wrist or hands at any point of the arc swing. Golf is like playing hockey. In tennis and baseball, when you step into the swing, your stance is opening during that weight shift. In golf our feet are stationary. In hockey, they set their lead skate prior to the shot, and most actually lift their trailing foot through impact (somewhat like in golf.). Also, if the hands come near the thighs coming back down, it causes the club head to swing outward through the ball's position, and encourages a completed swing towards the target side of the player. Meaning the swing is faster and more powerful because it is complete on both sides of the body when completed, and no hesitation or stop, but is fluid on both sides of the player. Newtonian physics states that a change in direction creates acceleration. So that swinging outward of the club head is an acceleration aspect. THIS is why you don't have to swing hard to hit the ball far, just use proper swing mechanics. I am now 64 years old, and I carry 265-280 (depending on elevation and air moisture content). Course conditions dictate the run-out. Learn to pivot correctly. keep the hands close to the thighs, and limp wrist (relaxation), and let physics power to shot for you. Once learned, you can speed up the shoulders for more power. (Like Speith does.)
Thanks man...great info in wisdom of some one experience
Grand Slam!
You’re a liar lol. A 2 hcp doesn’t shoot in the 60s “fairly often” otherwise you wouldn’t be a 2 hcp. If you are a 2 hcp then your golf swing must be Jeckyl and Hyde so people shouldn’t listen to you.
I looked at a lot of the swings of the Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus, Miller eras....many faced their left hands toward the target at their finish, including Palmer and Nicklaus. I think Johnny gives great advice but I'm not sure why that claim about the Hogan finish "no one when I played did that." I think it is simply an indication that Ben Hogan held off left palm facing the target, with a fade, on that famous 1 iron at the US Open.
I remember getting Hogan’s book when I was starting to play golf. Set me back a year or two!
Haha very good
I don't always do this Hogan move, but when I do, the ball is heading for the target. Thanks, Mr. Miller, that's a great tip.
Yeah me too. Anytime I hit one at the target I credit Hogan. Gimme a break.
@@jimmyReesby Which leg?
@@tvs3497 not the left🤣🤣🤣
The reason they do it is because they're all laying the shaft off at the top so they're below the swing plane and dropping the hands straight down to keep it there for the duration of the swing. The result is that when you finally get the face to impact, pulling the shaft parallel to the swing plane, you're doing so with a tremendous rate of closing on the face creating a natural draw. If you fully release the old way on top of that you risk snap hooking shots. You have to sweep under with limited release to control this Hogan/Sergio/Haney/08-13Tiger/Foley shallow swing. They still hit it super far in spite of a controlled release because they're able to fire the hips way out in front and still hit square thanks to the shallow shaft angle which naturally closes the face to square at impact.
Well thank you Hank Haney! 😆thats exactly what everyone thinks about during the swing.
Fading the ball from an in to out path is hogan's one of many moves, this was also Trevino's move as well. There are alot of ways to hit a golf ball and just because you don't agree on how to hit a draw or fade, I would like to see you win a major or a PGA tournament like Hogan, Trevino, or Miller.
I like Johnny Miller and I agree with what he's saying, but I think I think Hogan's secret was a cupped left wrist on the backswing (that stopped his hook) which results in your palm being faced towards the finish on the follow through. That is an iconic finish that I do see a lot of tour players doing now that Hogan started doing. Johnny definitely knows what he's talking about to all the haters and anybody that's played at his level knows something about the swing. Hate on me, I'm just a guy that likes golf. Peace.
Great explanation of the best of all time!!!
I guess the guy who said he had a 63 at Oakmont was referring to puts
Interesting point i never thought of before!
That's amazing. A move AFTER impact affects impact?
Diver Follow through has NOTHING to do with impact! Unbelievable nonsense from Miller! (As usual)
Brave man saying he knows. I personally see mostly everyones finish in that "cut" position.
Actually, I'm now working on a club twirl like Tiger's and I'm pretty sure it'll give me the 300yds I've been searching for.
Diver lol! Follow through PREVENTS INJURY! It doesn’t matter how you play-as long as you look good! 😂
@@jimmcgarry2880 Exactly!
No, of course it doesn't, but the move Miller's talking about revealed what happened before and at impact, Hogan cutting just enough under the ball to create a power fade.
I'm interested in Hogan's performance (in colour) in Shell's wonderful World in 1965, available here on RUclips.
Of course he's in his 50s then, he was drawing or fading his drives at will, but all his iron shots were beautiful draws. Have a look if you haven't seen it, ludicrously his entire magnificent round isn't shown by Shell, only about half of it.
Can you explain to me how he arrived to this finish..???he did not know how!!
That move is covered in The Golfing Machine. It would be either an Angled Hinge or Vertical Hinge release. Considering the shot it was an angled hinge release. No surprise he hasn't heard of it though. Even if he heard those terms, he probably wouldn't know what they meant.
If you really want to be confused about golf technique, just listen to Johnny.
..maybe you’re easily confused
@@cdunne1620 Good luck with that "curl under" move Miller describes. Sounds good, except that's not how Hogan released the club.
@@terrybader8595so what's your record in the PGA or are you saying you know better than hall of fame Johny Miller that may hit his 7 iron farther than your driver? How's that slice coming?
By ug
Thanks Mr Miller seems straight forward, I'll try it.
Wonderful info...Thanks Johnny!
People should practice cutting, hooking and hitting the ball straight. That is if they practice. You will easily learn that right palm up= fade, square = straight, down = draw. I suggest a visualization of the shot path since the hands do not have brains!
I don't think there is anything wrong in what Johnny is saying, I just think the title of this video is crap. In fact, anyone who talks about Hogan's secret is full of crap. Look up the simple definition of "secret." We have so much video of Hogan, and software to analyze the swing, what could he hide from us? The major keys to his swing are well known. He showed us how to swing the club in SHell's WWofG video. He wrote a book about it. Just because people can't copy it doesn't mean there's a secret.
A lot of Johnny Miller’s ideas about the swing are personal images or swing thoughts that mean something to him. It can be unintelligible to a lot of people. Learning to swing a golf club is very tough because of that, IMO. Hit down on your irons, for example. Lay the sod over or slightly brush the grass? Loved watching Johnny play or talk about the game.
..eh saying the left palm faces forward is not that cryptic in fairness
For half a century The Golfing Machine has called this "angled Hinging". Over half a century ago Hogan talked about how he did not want his right hand rolling over his left. Arnold Palmer and Jim Thorpe exaggerate this "hellicopter" anti hook move. In His book on Hogan David Leadbetter not only talked about it but shows pictures of Hogan actually demonstrating this move but in typical Miller fashion he discovered "the secret" that no one has ever talked about :)
Johnny used to say things like " nobody did that " Which is just silly. Because lots of people did. I think that's the only thing that ever really diminished his comment was his over exaggeration of his point
I attribute years of torment on the golf course caused by me trying to mimick Johnny Miller's swing. I agree with most of the comments here that this is not Hogan's secret. Plenty of other good youtube vids show much more insight into Hogan's secret. Keep looking, just ignore this one.
It's an observation that I've never noticed. This can be tried in 10 balls and I'm going to.
It’s part of Hogan’s “secret”. The secret was eliminate the left side of the golf course, most golfers don’t have that problem though, so Hogan’s secret doesn’t help.
And why would anyone mimic Miller’s swing? That early set and wild leg action is, well, I’ll call it unique. Nothing to try to emulate.
People just like to talk crap. Miller was great in his day. Saw him play many times in person. His videos are really informative and he is a good announcer.
I had someone recently recognize me from my swing that I filmed on a course 2 years ago. I guess it stands out.
No one knew his secret because he didn't have one, he just took names and whipped their ass, period.
Hogan used to hook so bad he almost quit golf - what Miller is describing allowed Hogan to swing freely without fear of hooking, he never allows his right-hand to go over the left, if that makes sense.
JM creative and deadly with probably the shortest backswing of all
At Golf Swing Prescription, we teach Hogan's move in the follow through regularly...I just shot 69 at Pga West Nicklaus Private with 8 Birdies with this move..i love this Johnny!
Ass kisser.
Not so secret is that Hogan consistently attacked a target with a fade shot. Virtually took out 50% of area on the left side of it during the second half of his career. He was all too familiar with draws and hooks. He could set for those when the shot was demanded by circumstance. His not so secret methodology was utilized by Jack Nicklaus with great success. Many players take the same approach today.
"As G.S.E.D. (TGM): "angled hinging post-follow-through to stroke finish," inclusive Fundamental Attribution Theory of club selection (shaft length relative swing-plane & club face angle) to shot production-adaptation/manipulation-performance, specifically bi-laterally a, "full-roll/release," i.e., right index finger accumulator #3 turned-over/rolled as, "Primary Lever Assembly," relative timed participation with accumulator/pressure point #1 the Right Hand, &, "angled-hinge," (accum. #2 The pre-release secret, "Hogan feeling," per Mr. Hogan's telling us personally of his noted, "pronation," whether slice-fade-straight-draw-hook purposive swing adaptation, etc., the draw-pronation of non-hook & fade-pronation of non-draw facilitations
What is the active participation of momentum from the top when Force = Mass X Acceleration?, the moment of inertia through the ball I as last pupil of Bobby Jones, Jr. heard so much a bout about; a swinger's Longitudinal Acceleration to a hitter's Radial Mass, a gain again, "From the Top;" "...Down, ...Out, ...Forward," to the intended swing-plane for the intended impact-separation sequence to the shot at hand, "'fore!," that Moment of Truth," IN VICTORIA GLORIA
AMERICANUM REX AUGUSTUS given that the programming for the shot power and direction is given to the ball at impact and prior to ball separation I fail to see how any additional hand action or alignments are relevant when the hands are head high in the follow through and the ball is already seventy yards down the fairway. Unless Miller’s reference is that Hogan’s hand position is a symptom of a Component Variation stemming from impact. I might accept that as the fade shot he claims it produces is itself a symptom of a ball flight produced through a few possible variations. The club face control being mostly a duty of the lead wrist flv obligation. I find it misleading that this Hogan-esque feature would be prescribed as a treatment rather than seeing it as a symptom of other conditions. Samenesses vs differences? Loosely.
Leafs still suck, Go Vegas!!
Johnny Miller was the BEST. No BS with him.
Hogan fought the hook all his playing days, his driver was weighted to prevent a hook (even Paul Azinger couldn't draw the ball using Hogan's driver) he contorted his left hand to produce a fade, which contradicted with his over-powerful hooking right hand culminating in the "Hogan fade" a straight shot which fell to the right at the apex which was what he aimed at and named his clubs after. Therefore unless your'e also a natural left hander with a right hand hook don't copy Hogan,s swing copy his book instead.
Umm ....Mr Hogan was right handed. Just giving a friendly heads-up in case your planning to share future theories about his swing.
Page 30 of Five Lessons contradicts your comment by the man himself!
Apologize for sounding like a JA in that first comment. Mr. Warren mistakenly wrote that assuming he was naturally left handed because thats how he started the game.
Here is the answer from the 1987 video interview transcript
GOLF: You were a natural left-hander who took up the game right-handed, weren't you?
HOGAN: No, that's one of those things that's always been written, but it's an absolute myth. The truth is, the first golf club I owned was an old left-handed, wooden-shafted, rib-faced mashie that a fellow gave me, and that's the club I was weaned on. During the mornings we caddies would bang the ball up and down the practice field until the members arrived and it was time to go to work. So I did all that formative practice left-handed. But I'm a natural right-hander.
Sir Shanks a Lot No apology needed & thanks for the info'. Shocked to find his book was ghost written, thought Herbert was only there to help with the spelling, if it's from the horse's mouth then I must accept it!
There is another story of an older caddie threatening to kick his ass if he caught him playing left handed in Gary Wiren's PGA manual but even he is sceptical about it!
STEVEN MCKECHNIE The partnership between Herbert and Mr. Hogan when they wrote the articles isn't well known. Tough to say how much was Mr. Hogans actual thoughts and how much was Herbert's interpretation of his thoughts. Seems that video is the sole source to find his pure thoughts.
There's a Facebook Page that shares 160 short articles written by Mr. Hogan and his ghost writer (Tom Shehan). Still pretty Interesting facebook.com/benhogangolf
25 PGA Tour wins and 2 Majors, he probably knows a little bit about golf.
Hogan fought a hook. Miller was simply showing a way he held the face open to keep the ball from going left.
I miss Johnny Miller, told it like it is
Talking crap though Hogan was just playing a cut ain't rocket science
Clubs for sale, sweet spot never hit.
Johnny is a humble guy. Says no one... I do however, have tremendous respect his golf IQ.
..being humble is overrated, if one is sure of oneself why undermine it to come across as fake humble, just tell the truth, it’s not that hard
Well said Johnny
I still believed that Johnny Miller was the best Trapper of a golf ball I have ever seen.
I've done some trapping for rabbits and such, never tried trapping golf balls. I bet you'd have a lot of luck around the water on a golf course.
I once trapped a TopFlite but as I approached it made a chilly dip dive into the lake in front of the green never to be trapped again
Huh, look at Nick Faldo’s swing back in the 1980s. Same ending position.
RIT vs LOP. You must know your swing. Hogan was battling a very nasty hook, hence the weak grip and all. Hogan turned to a RIT (right inside throw)
Hogans real secret was that he learnt to play a fade which gave him the understanding of how to shape the ball both ways giving him control over it. Im pretty sure thats what he meant when he said he had a secret.
The only way to improve is to experiment experiment experiment out on the course
"nobody did it in my era"
errrr Lee Trevino
How's this for a quick reply - yes you're right.
Trevino's left hand faced the target after his swing too - I've always thought he had the best action of all - Hogan thought he was magnificent too, he would send Trevino his latest clubs to try out and give feedback.
Miller's written extensively about Lee's game, It's baffling that he didn't mention him here.
Could lee hit a towering high draw! Nope
@@jamesfitzgerald6636 that's the whole point. Johnny is talking about what players are doing "today" to hit a fade. What's really dumb is Arnold Palmer did this too like Lee. So basically all Johnny is really saying is that during his "era" it was more popular to play a draw than a fade.
What...?. Ben's secret? I'll tell you Ben's secret, don't have children...
Jack had 5 kids, won 18
@@Daniel-ln6jn Trump loon
@@melsteffano6189 lost all respect for Jack when he backed that loser/grifter.
Tell me Johnny, do you read books?
Maybe Hogan did it to avoid hitting his hook, which was his tendency.
He could have explained it to literally anyone, golfer or not. I think he believed that it would "level the playing field" too much? Or he just felt it belonged to him, but I tried some things I saw him doing with his wedges, and it quickly became clear that his grip was NOT used the way he said it was, and that 2 very specific things allowed him to repeat this every time, with one adjustment from longer to shorter clubs etc. Anyway. Post here if you want proof, or whatever. I'm done pushing it.
Ben moved from draw to fade to cure the hooks and gained all kinds of ball flight control.
That title is wrong. That wasn’t Hogans secret. His secret was a weak left hand grip.
OH look, 55 amateur dweebs know more than one of the greatest golfers of the last 50 years. The Internet is the great equalizer, I guess. LOL
Moe Norman? Did you hear of him and his skill level?
What do you see Johnnie?
Lee Trevino made this move that he's talking about too...Nicklaus said he never wanted to feel the toe crossing over through impact either. It's just a "feel" that they had...through impact, they all release the golf club...It's just a passive release of the golf club..Also, I believe that Hogan got rid of his duckhook by simply cupping his left wrist at the top of the backswing...I took lessons from Harvie Ward, and that's what he taught me when I was young, and hit a hook. He said the golf swing is simply, "Toe up, toe down, toe up." The part that eliminates the hook is the "toe down" position at the top of the backswing...You will NEVER hit a hook with the toe down at the top of your swing. That's what Hogan did. Cupped his left wrist a little.
I doubt this conscious effort was Hogan's secret, but instead the fact that this position is in Hogan's swing is a consequence of his secret.
If you want to learn Hogan's real secret read "Ben Hogan's Magical Device" (subtitled "The Real Secret to Hogan's Swing Finally Revealed " by Ted Hunt.
Totally off topic but my gosh, Ben Hogan had the most handsome, lovely face when he was young...!
Johnny Miller was some player. Hit long irons as good as anyone. Sandy lyle was similar.
I'm just tired of people saying to grip it in your fingers with your lead hand. It's a bunch of rubbish. Best golfer of all time (and I say that because he was the most humble, which tiger is not) Jack Nicklaus palmed it with his lead hand. I can't put a club in my hand with it resting on that heel pad. It changes my plane considerably and takes out almost all of the feel for distance. I'm sure plenty have grooved it over time into the fingers/heel pad, but naturally, we start gripping it with the palm for the most part. Best way to figure it out is to let your arms dangle and grab a club with the face pointed in the direction you have at setup.
It was going well until Johnny mentioned he was the first one to ever notice this 😂😂😂😂. While he's right, players are finishing more line this than they ever have, I've been in golf for 56 years and I've heard this before and noticed it myself when I was a kid playing in the 70's. It's not a new revelation. 😂 It's also a product of Hogan's very astute feel for the club head, what's known as club head lag, that controls club acceleration. He could swing the entire club through the impact area without the club head passing the hands until well after impact. His description of the grip pressure points in 5 lessons and power golf allow this to happen. If every amateur player would learn the points of grip pressure their games would vastly improve. Homer Kelley talks about this in the golfing machine. His pressure points are a little different but no less effective.
No secret The golf swing takes everything u have. A lot of people don't take the time to think properly.