How multi-stage crossings can be pedestrian-friendly
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Traffic signals in the Netherlands are far safer and more responsive than those in North America. Multi-stage crossings are a key factor which makes this possible.
Thanks to Matt Pinder from Beyond the Automobile for reviewing the script.
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Dutch intersections shown:
0:35
Westzeedijk & Pieter de Hoochweg, Rotterdam
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1:03, 2:24, 4:02, 5:51, 6:42, 7:06
Vierhavenstraat & Keileweg, Rotterdam
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2:03, 6:24, 8:02
Stormrugbaan & Spoorsingel, Vleuten
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2:39
Schiedamseweg & Vierhavenstraat, Rotterdam
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3:13, 7:23
Mozartlaan & Brederostraat, Schiedam
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5:08
Kruithuisweg & Schieweg, Delft
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8:40
Burgemeester van Harenlaan & 's Gravelandseweg, Schiedam
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Ontarian intersections shown:
0:02 Highway 7 & Interchange Way, Vaughan
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7:41 Davis Drive & George St, Newmarket
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I never knew this was not normal. Seems so logical, I love my country
The Netherlands is small as f*ck. That's why people walk and cycle a lot. We need our cars in the U.S.A.
@@Maartun true. but that doesn't mean we don't use cars. we are small but very populated so much traffic. and in the rural areas we don't bike that much.
@@Maartun The size of the country doesn't make any difference in terms of walking and cycling because hardly anyone walks or cycles between cities regardless. What matters more is the design of cities and their transportation networks.
Although Dutch cities are definitely far more compact than American cities there are still plenty of people with very long-distance commutes in the Netherlands. And plenty of those long trips happen without a car. Most commonly, people will walk or cycle to a train station and take the train most of the way. At the other end, they walk, take public transport, rent a bike, or use a second bike that they store at the other station.
Immigrant Mentality Stiopic I don’t think size of country matters that much. Netherlands used to be very car based as well, until government changed everything, they put a lot of focus on bicycles and made roads everywhere for bicycles only.
If you are in a city you will also see everyone walking or using a bicycle as opposed to other cities in other countries where you use cars a lot or also just people walking in most cases. People in the Netherlands don’t have a disadvantage as well when using a bicycle, traffic is better organized which wouldn’t give you a reason not to use one, it’s better for the earth unless you are very lazy 😂
@@Maartun Some of my colleague bike 15 km to their work, they are all healthy and fit. Better then drive 10 miles by car and be obese.
Let's not forget how safe multi stage crossings will make you feel. It's so much easier to cross 2 lanes 4 times than it is to cross 8 lanes in one go. It also just makes sense: You keep a short protected section around the pedestrian, and keep that protected section moving along with them, instead of just blocking off a massive length and keeping it blocked off for ages.
Gotta love the similarities with Not Just Bikes here though, both from Toronto, CA, both comparing ped/bike infrastructure between NA and NL.
Just imagine how surprised I was to discover the "Not Just Bikes" channel! I did not expect that there would actually be competition in the niche of "people from Toronto who live in the Netherlands and make videos in English on RUclips about Dutch transport infrastructure".
@@OntarioTrafficMan ga zo door
The Dutch design for the highest number of persons per unit of time, and not the highest number of cars.
They also often detect and react to actual traffic.
Only in city or busy roads
I dont know why detection loops arent allready used everywhere, its not that its something new, we have had it here for decades and it doesnt even cost that much
@@daileydeleeuw7437 I would like to see some evidence here. I'm sure less busy roads outside built up areas may well show little evidence of being designed for optimal throughput of all modes of transport, but I'll assure you they actually are.
@@swamidude2214 My country has them but sometimes the traffic lights sometimes still aren't very intelligent. They may change the lights to red even if there aren't any cars waiting at the junction on the intersecting road, while at other junctions they may continue to favour oncoming straight-going traffic over right-turning ones (my country is RHD), even when the former is arriving in dribs & drabs, but there's already a Q of 25+ vehicles for the latter
@@daileydeleeuw7437 Not entirely true. They're also on less busy roads, but on roads they expect to be more congested without those loops. We just aren't aware of them because of how smoothly traffic flows.
There's even traffic lights that go faster in rain or snow just so walking and biking peepz getting soaked by waiting
That's a myth lol. I have asked about that it's not true
@@metalvideos1961 they exist, but they aren't as common. I think there's just a few of them around the country.
not true i live in a big city in the netherlands
@@Mizai that doesnt say anything LOL, pretty sure theres one in Eindhoven
thats a big cap
Ah yes, the thing we dutch people are known for.
Traffic lights.
😂
LETSS GOOO🥴😔😂😂
Yeah, is a pain in the ass for any driver! And the 'best' part: Pedestrians and cyclists will cross anyway, no matter the colour of the light! As you saw in the video. The rules are just a sort of guidelines for the Dutch, so 'red' means like: "OK, you can expect some traffic when you cross", or "be extra careful", but stopping and waiting are no options.
Ewout van Megchelen I hate people like that. I'd rather not risk getting ran over, so I always wait.
You do not want to know how bad Hengelo is..
There are even traffic lights with rain sensors, so that pedestrians and cyclists do not have to stand still in the rain for long. Even when there is a lot of traffic
then you should bring a bottle of water and throw it over the sensor
@@bertapos id rather keep the system as it is, rather than abusing it and risking them removing the system because of abuse
@@elscientist dude, I was just joking, I don't want to bring a water bottle with me all the time😂
@@bertapos Bruh, what is that mentality.
@@ls200076 dude.. I was joking again
In the US, my experience has been that the traffic signals are timed to benefit the flow of cars, with the occasional annoyance of letting pedestrians cross. In the Netherlands, cars do not rule; pedestrians and bicyclists do. It must make walking or biking around the cities a lot easier.
(An aside: I note that in the Netherlands motorized bikes follow pedestrian rules, whereas in most places in the US they are treated the same as cars and would not be permitted to use a crosswalk.)
Motorized bikes that can go to 40 Km/h in the netherlands are usually on car lanes (in town) as much as possible to keep them seperated from bikes, even if there are bikelanes present. This is a safety issue as the relative speed between motorized bikes and bikes is too high. Motorized bikes are however directed to use bike lanes when the situation demands it (not allowed on most roads outsided towns) and use the "crossdrives" on bike lanes . They do NOT use pedestrian crosswalks. Here you have an example of a redirection from car lane to bike lane: www.google.nl/maps/@51.4487674,3.5847646,3a,75y,47.53h,73.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-KmT3ZHI3dhhSZt__dMX3A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=nl and here is a double crosswalk for pedestrians and bikes/motorized bikes next to each other : www.google.nl/maps/@51.4494473,3.5852567,3a,75y,292.12h,69.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWwhhrUHgVGFdWBYodvtusQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=nl Variations are possible...pedestrian crosswalks are usually zebrastriped for example. Besides that, we have electric motor assisted bikes that can go to 25Km/h and they use the bikelanes when present, else they are also on the car lanes but not on the main roads outside town :)
Your latter observation is incorrect. I know which part of the video you're referring to, but that was just someone ignoring traffic rules to get across sooner :-) If there had been a police officer there, he would have been fined.
@@danc4590 Thank you! That clears up that question.
As a dutchman, It depends on what motorized bike it is, Lets say its a slow scooter, Its only allowed to drive on bike lanes, Fast scooters have to use the road,
The pedestrian at 0:37 really walks like a GTA npc
What some of us got is good suspension
Lol
That is by my school
He also walks perfectly on the beat
2:30 Look at the guy checking the pededstrian light, and is like: "Fuck it, if they can go, I can go too!"
Dutch cycling at it's best.
i do that all the time, dont see the problem
Via social media I learn stuff about my country I didn’t realise it is special.
Yeah our traffic infrastructure is pretty well engineered.
There are even differences between cities in Germany. For instance:
Frankfurt : Long pedestrian / bicycle waiting times: More people crossing on red signal
Berlin: Shorter phases: Less people crossing on red signal.
In The Netherlands: Highly optimized times for everyone using sensors and real time algorithms: Barely people crossing on red signal.
I'm very sure that if you'd make car drivers wait more than 2 minutes on an empty road, they would also skip the light.
Also the Netherlands, just an orange warning light if there comes a Bus. You determine yourself if you can make it before the bus crosses. No possibility to cross on a red signal, you just get run over. LOL
I was shocked with the infrastructure in germany in some places. No bicycle areas etc. I have never seen better outside nl
@@somewhereintime8672 Hamburg has deployed self learning traffic lights powered by AI technology, really depends where you visit. Also, it's easier to deploy such systems in a small country like The Netherlands compared to Germany, France etc. Doesn't take anything away from the technology deployed in The Netherlands at the moment, but explains atleast a small bit why there may be such wide differences across countries/Europe.
@@lillexus5589 In The Netherlands infrastructure is built on a provincial level, so the same can be done in Germany, which is more federal than the Netherlands.
"Barely people crossing on red signal." Hahahaha that's simply not true. Maybe, because the light is never red, but we don't follow rules at all.
This is one of those things i thought was normal but its just a dutch thing
Probably exists in Germany and Scandinavia as well. Maybe also Japan and China
tijmen131 much less, in holland there are much more, even tho its not that big
@@fransgerritsen5008 *The Netherlands. But this is definitely common in other countries as well. But not that much no. It's a good thing we are among the lucky few 🙂
For this to work the centre median will have to be quite wide (which would be challenging in more land scarce countries,), or the green man @ both crossings be timed quite close to one another, otherwise the centre median will be overcrowded & pedestrians waiting there for the next crossing stage to turn green might spill out onto the road. That has happened before in my country I think, where the govenment had intentionally made some crossings 2-stage to deter pedestrians from dashing across the street if the buses they want to catch is arriving at a bus stop across the road
im jealous of you
Wow, I’m learning all this stuff about my country that I never even thought about... Thank you! It looks pretty efficient, although it doesn’t always feel like it when I’m cycling in Amsterdam during rush hour lol
The overall delay at Dutch signals is not that different than in other countries, because the efficiencies are generally used to make the intersection safer while maintaining acceptable delays. The most noticeable difference is the prevalence of fully-protected (conflict-free) signal phases.
So the efficiency is not that noticeable to typical road users, but it is very obvious in crash statistics.
Ja maar spreek ook nederlands tegen me alsje naar ons land komt !
@@ympymp9534 In mijn dagelijks leven spreek ik meestal Nederlands, maar als iemand een reactie plaatst in het Engels ga ik het in het Engels antwoorden.
Ik vind als die mensen naar ons land komen op vakantie of hier imigeren moeten ze nederlands leren spreken want als wij in hun land op vakantie zijn moeten we ook Engels spreken dus als zij hier komen waarom moet ik Engels spreken want ik woon in nederland en spreek hier nederlands en geen engels en als ik hun land ben dan pas spreek ik Engels
@@ympymp9534 Je logica heeft wat kaas gaten.
Het is toch logisch dat je Engels moet praten als je naar een ander land op vakantie gaat. Het is de meest gebruikte voertaal van de hele wereld. Bijvoorbeeld, je gaat naar Korea op vakantie. Welk taal moet je spreken? Engels of Koreans.
Effe een ander voorbeeld: Een Koreaan gaat op vakantie naar Nederland. Welke taal moet de Koreaan spreken? Nederlands of Engels. Want Engels is de wereldtaal en Nederlands is de taal van Nederland.
Bravo! You've explained Dutch signals in a way that I hope non-Dutch people can understand and appreciate!
never heard someone talk this in-depth about traffic lights before.... it was oddly interesting ^.^ coincidentally, I live near the crossings shown in this video :)
Haha yes Rotterdam Delfshaven hahaha place of students 😂
1 of the crossings at the junction beside my house is 2-stage too, but the only way to activate them 1 after the other is to cross 1 stage, press the button on the traffic light in the centre median, then wait until the next traffic light cycle (~150s long) to cross the next stage. If you want to be able to cross 1 stage sooner after the other, both stages need to be activated simultaneously, for which you also have to hope that there is some one else at the centre median or on the other end of the crossing to activate the 2nd stage for you. 1 of the 2 stages has a significantly shorter green man too (~10s, as there're a lot of right-turning traffic @ that junction that's in conflict with that stage of the crossing). So if you're crossing starting from the other stage of the crossing, you have to run if you want to be able to cross both stages in 1 go, otherwise you'll be stranded in the centre median & have to wait until the next traffic light cycle (~150s long) to cross the 2nd stage
Nice and informative video. I'm reminded of a crossing where I live (NL) which sees a lot of cycle traffic; so the bicycle light is turned green by default, and turns red only when cars arrive that need to cross over the bicycle path. It's a very special light, I don't think there are many that do that.
I always wondered, why these are so few multi-stage crossings - so the North American traffic engineers have found a way to turn this feature into something to make streets even more hostile to cars…
In Germany the green time is usually designed to at least allow a full crossing. Then the light turns red instantly, which however has a clearance time - timed, so you can make your way to the next island before the cars get green. So you only end there, when you are very slow or very late.
I really like the diagrams! They're really really useful to get a clear idea of what's going on.
Also, in case you've not seen NotJustBikes has linked to your video from his most recent one one.
Thanks!
Yes, Jason let me know a few weeks ago that he would be mentioning my video in his video.
2:32 ain't got no time for that
Extra plus point of 2 stage-crossing. People with reduced mobility like with elderly wheelchair, crutches, limps, etc. can take the time they need to reach the halfway point safely without having to fear for their lives crossing the complete crossing when there is dangerous traffic.
Sidenote : When a emergency vehicle arrives in the netherlands at a regular crossing the crossing will automaticlly turn the side the ambulance is coming from to green and all others to red.
At Public Transportation we use the KART System and the KAR System
KART : Always asks priority for Public Transportation and Emergency Vehicles
KAR : Newer version for Public Transport only , looks if you're late or not.
Late : High Priority
On Time : Priority
Early : No Priority at all
:-)
Actually at different intersections there are different arrangements for which buses/trams get priority. Usually it's like you said, but at some intersections (e.g. along R-Net bus lines in Noord Holland) all buses get priority regardless of schedule. At some other intersections all buses get priority, but different levels of priority depending on the schedule (low, medium, or high)
What does KART stand for? Is that another term for the older VECOM system? I'm only familiar with the newer Korte Afstand Radio system.
did you know in the nethetlands sometimes pedestrians and bikes have the shame light in this chase the pedestrian button makes the light longer green
on the road itself we use on different spots from let's say 70 meteres towards the traffic light sensor lines in the road. Meaning the system sees a car approaching and can also meassure how many cars are approaching, giving it a longer or shorter green light.
This also works great let's say in the middle of the night when there is almost no traffic. Once you approach a red light it turns into green just before approaching the stop line. If I see other countries around us not using this system you often have to wait for a minute or longer while there is no other traffic at all from the other sides.
Never knew that the traffic signals here in the Netherlands were so complex. Also, why are you next to my house @ 2:03 haha
This is barely scratching the surface! There is an incredible amount of thought that goes into the operation of each signal in the Netherlands. And also a lot of thought about whether there should be a signal at all.
I was actually at Vleuten station to film some Sprinters that pass through the station at full speed, which is very unusual. I had about twenty minutes between trains so I wandered around a bit near the station.
I saw on the thumbnail that it was in vleuten. I live 5 minutes or so form there.
Weird, I recognized this exact intersection as well and live close by.
From the looks of those intersections, it also makes u-turns safer and easier. Since a wider median would allow drivers to turn into the closest lane instead of having to cross multiple lanes only because they cant turn sharply enough.
U-turns at crossing are (almost always) prohibited in The Netherlands. In that case there will be a traffic sign at the isle that shows it is prohibited.
Multi stage crossings can be great! I've always noticed that some of them aren't timed great for pedestrians, but overall had a positive opinion on them, mainly for letting you cross part of the road while the other direction still has cars going. It's also easier to cross with a stop in the middle when the lights are off at night.
Yeah even in the Netherlands are multi-stage crossings sometimes annoying to pedestrians. There's a signal I use sometimes that forces me to wait a lot more than seems necessary. It's a highway interchange and they clearly focused entirely on moving car traffic
Yeah, I guess in some cases it makes sense to prioritise car traffic. Although in those cases it might be worth thinking about getting other traffic completely off the streets, with an under- or overpass.
@@KarolaTea Yes and fortunately that is exactly the policy in the Netherlands. In the meantime at the intersection in question there are some timing changes they could make which would reduce ped/bike delay whole maintaining vehicle capacity, albeit at the expense of vehicle delay.
I believe that cars get priority over bicycles and pedestrians if there could be a dangerous situation in The Netherlands. At the exit of the highway I always took, in rush hour there was a clogging of the exit and therefore a buildup on the highway at the approach of the exit. That is very dangerous and a possibility of a pileup. Cars were stopping on the right lane signaling to enter the exit and also cars on the emergency lane standing in line for the exit. Those are dangerous situations. They changed the traffic lights for bicycle lane and pedestrian crossing (they shortened their green fase) so car traffic exiting the highway could flow faster through the crossing. That meant very long waits for the bicyclists and the pedestrians. That’s unfortunately, but in my eyes necessary for safety. But only in rush hour, to avoid dangerous situations. Safety first, any time.
@@RealConstructor Yes if there is a risk of spillback onto a motorway then that traffic will indeed receive extra green time. But the rest of the time it is simply a choice of how to distribute delay among the road users.
the dutch traffic lights can even detect aproaching emergency vehicles such as ambulances, giving them green to clear the road ahead of the vehicle for a smoother ride to and from a call out.
Many North American traffic lights can do that too, it's called "preemption".
We have that in Australia too. Some intersections do the same thing for busses and trams as well.
Lol, I saw my house, didn't expect that 😂
I'd say it depends on the area.
Most are indeed quite efficient. But some specific intersections keep you waiting in the middle as well. But that's usually just a few within a city.
Yes definitely. My point is not that all signals in the Netherlands are perfect (they certainly aren't), it is that there are some unique signal timing strategies which would be good to try in Canada as well.
There's one intersection in Schiedam which also drives me crazy with how the crossings are set up.
@@OntarioTrafficMan yeah definitely. Haha
Stage crossing in my opinion only works when there’s a large median refuge island and not too many people crossing at one time. If the median island is too small and/or too many want to cross at each cycle, stage crossing don’t work well.
With a narrow median, Dutch intersections use a signal design which guarantees the green wave for pedestrians, so they never get stopped at the median.
Now I get why so many big intersections have these big regulation boxes that regulate what signals go on when
They are called Verkeersregelinstalaties or VRI in Dutch
"As long as there isn't a stop right before the intersection" Well, they almost always do that wrong here. Trams often wait needlessly with the doors closed until it gets a green light.
Most stops right in front of an intersection have stopping sections for the actual stop, and need to drive up to a detection loop or a contact that is close to the stop in order to request a green light.
If trams are early, the system in general will halt the tram to bring it back to being on-time with it's schedule.
Next to this: some times it happens that the system responsible for this (I know that EBS in Waterland uses a transponder system that on a particular intersection was malfunctioning badly, we had to cross through red lights A LOT) is not working correctly, and a vehicle on the tram tracks as the actual tram is treated like a taxi or an emergency vehicle not using lights and sirens, and is basically treated with no priority at all.
(And then there's the simple mistakes of drivers advancing up to the point of requesting a green, letting people on and off right there, and getting an early green but not being able to depart quickly because people are still buying tickets or getting on and off the tram).
Cool! I think the coolest American multi-stage crossing I ever saw was on Pennsylvania Ave in Washington DC..
What happened was that the signals started going to FDW only for those entering the crosswalk from either side of the street while still giving a walk to those clearing the street. This way no one was stuck in the middle (Where a protected bikelane is).
Neat! This seems like the kind of thing the Netherlands might do, but I can't think of any examples of it.
Another neat North-American example is the intersection of Church St & Front St in Toronto, where pedestrians get a partial north-south Walk during the applicable eastbound or westbound left turn phase. The eastbound and westbound left turns happen at different parts of the cycle, so actually it's possible to completely cross the street north-south before the north-south signal phase even starts.
Sorry, the Dutch see these crossings as terribly unsafe. The cycle lanes are in the middle of the road, in between the fastest cars, with no protective / guiding traffic islands, just some paint and flexible bolders: that's unsafe. Pedestrians and cyclists are forced to use the same space (turn = use X-walks) on crossings: unsafe. On Streetview goo.gl/maps/DSFNUFpGPFTkbQ5QA people are waiting (stuck) in the middle, on several crossings. Cyclists have no access to buildings along the street, so they are using the pedestrian's sidewalks. Unacceptable. Bad design!
@@peterslegers6121 I absolutely agree that the Pennsylvania Avenue bike lanes are poorly designed. We were merely saying that it is an interesting idea to have asymmetrical timing on a pedestrian signal, not that that street is actually a good example of a bike lane.
Not Just Bikes sent me here.
in the toronto policy where it shows how long to provide for pedestrians, you can see that they know assuming 1m/s is too fast for some people to safely make it across the street, but refuse to use a safer timing until certain thresholds are met. which means they're saying its okay if 19% of people can't cross the street in time to not get hit by a car (because making them all on a 0.8m/s assumption would be inconvenient for people driving cars)
Pedestrians who legally entered the intersection (i.e. during the Walk light) retain priority until they finish crossing, regardless of the colours of the lights.
Applying a 0.8 m/s walking speed everywhere would make Flashing Don't Walk durations insanely long, taking away legal Walk time for pedestrians. Of course with a longer FDW people would just continue walking long after FDW begins (which is illegal), further diminishing the respect that people have for traffic signals.
A better solution is to use radar detection to add extra Walk time in the extremely rare cases that someone is actually walking slower than 1.0 m/s (which is already extremely slow).
Unlike North America (that being the US and Canada respectfully) the Dutch do not focus so heavily on cars and other motorized traffic. Traffic is over all equal in a large sense of the word. So it really does depend on the situation whether you as pedestrian or cyclist get a green light faster or not. Within a city center it would be more likely for you to get a green light while connecting to large traffic junctions or those leading towards the highway (or freeway if you like) you will likely see motorized traffic go first. The general rule is to make sure traffic flows well, this means in city centers you will find more pedestrians and cyclists while near highways you will get more motorized vehicles which clearly shows in how traffic is handled.
This however may be different in small towns and in the middle of nowhere type roads.
You won't have the fancy lights, you won't have lights that care about the weather nor get the same treatment. The roads are often more narrow so a multi-stage crossing won't be needed or is more a hassle. Also local governments can't be bothered by weather or other details. It needs to work in a basic way and nothing more as funding is often directed more at the large cities and not towards any small town. So financially it's a better idea to handle what you can do instead of what you would like to do. Pretty sure this would also be the case in North America over all.
The larger cities also have huge numbers of tourists visiting every single day, this also means you need to make sure traffic keeps flowing and pedestrians won't be standing still to wait for a green light too long. Accidents will start to happen real soon as people get inpatient rather quickly.
The problem comes where the multistage crossings get one uniform pedestrian stage and some going from top left to bottom right has to wait 4 full cycles to make the crossing. The Dutch system is so much better where pedestrian phases are inserted at the first phase that would enable them safely and will skip car phases with no waiting traffic while in most UK systems at big junctions pedestrian phases are only inserted once in the cycle even where clearance times would allow multiple insertions.
This also shows why you can in some cases safely cross (or half cross) the road even while the light is red when the dutch style system is not used. It is just not permitted.
Also smart lights like those used in the netherlands can not be predicted beforehand and so you need to wait for it to change to make a safe crossing. Also it very often is not safe when the light is red. When you keep pedestrians just standing there without any good reason you will encourage them to jaywalking.
It would be nice if you could share some of the intersections you showed in this video for google maps snooping purposes. One thing that strikes me about dutch junctions is that they are often quite large relative to the typical roadway size to allow for medians/refuges. I wonder how easily it could be retrofitted to NA cities, especially those where the corners of the intersection are built up.
The intersections in this video are pretty arbitrary, they're just places I happened to be anyway. You can look at pretty much any random traffic signal in the Netherlands and you'll find similar multi-stage crossings.
The medians do indeed add width, and that is partly offset by the fact that there tend to be fewer through traffic lanes in urban areas. Thru traffic is instead diverted onto new highways and highway-like roads without any sidewalks, bike lanes, driveways or street frontage.
It is also possible to provide narrow median and use asymmetrical walk displays (sometimes showing Walk in one direction, but Don't Walk in the other) to prevent people from getting stopped in the middle.
I've updated the description to include google maps links for all the intersections.
how did you make that animation?
I created some "objects" in Blender. The stop lines are actually rectangles with different colours on different sides (red, yellow, green, white), and I just rotate the object to whichever colour I want to see (from above). The different stop lines are linked together so I don't have to manually animate each one, they just follow each other. The cars are just rectangles, and I fit a position curve to them.
Clearly in the Netherlands, crossings are made with ALL road users in mind. In USA and Canada maybe too, crossings are designed for cars only and the rest is added. Hence, you see may 4-way stop crossings, traffic lights that control 1 side at a time. I can only suggest to the poster to also look (study) Dutch railroad crossings. The waiting time is minimal and trains ride at high speeds on a very densely used network.
Whenever I visit the UK, I notice that the waiting time for pedestrians is also very long. Too much preference is given to cars.
The UK is like the 51st state of the USA in many ways.
Not only is the waiting time long, the crossing time is far too short for those of us with limited mobility.
4:11 if that crossing doesn't conflict with left turns, why are those cars pulling U-turns? Those are conflicting
People making u turns have too slow down alot due too the sharp turn which means they have time too stop if they see pedestrians crossing ifnfront
They were doing U turns because traffic is backed up. That is not a U-turn signal so U-turning drivers need to yield to any other traffic while turning.
@@OntarioTrafficMan okay good to know
When crossing a single stage crossing. There is always one side that gets the green light before the other side. This is in case a car might cross on late orange, pedestrians he would hit, are still on a red light for an extra second or two. This was the first thing I noticed about Dutch traffic lights. At least this is why I think it is. As the long corner made by cars always goes green later than the short corner.
If this even makes sense lol
Jij hebt het over ontruimingstijden die per richting verschillen, denk ik? Like if it takes longer for cars to clear one side of the crosswalk, the pedestrians starting on that side get a slightly later start of green than the pedestrians on the same crossing starting from the other side?
If so, that's literally the topic of my next video. I also find it very cool how Dutch clearance timings take into account the individual movement of vehicles and pedestrians. The timings in Canada do not.
@@OntarioTrafficMan Yes!
That is exactly what i meant, that was the first thing i noticed myself about the traffic light effiency. Cool, cant wait to check out your next video then!
8:55 Actually, they can! It is common for public transit to have support for the KAR system, which allows the driver to request a green light in advance. The driver presses a button when they close the door, and they're basically guaranteed a green as soon as they are able to depart!
True, but it can be somewhat limiting because the time from starting to close the doors to starting to move is only about 5 seconds, which depending on the intersection may not be enough time to get a green.
@@OntarioTrafficMan but it's still quicker, more comfortable and better for the environment than having to move 5 meters to drive to the "detectielus" to get in line for a green light, because the light knows the bus is ready 5 seconds earlier.
@edewaal97 Yes indeed better than waiting till the bus/tram rolls forward. But from what I've heard, there is a lot of inconsistency between tram/bus operators: some press it too early, some press it too late, and some don't press it at all. I think it is better to have the request sent automatically when the operator starts to close the doors. That way signal engineers have a predictable entry time into the intersection without driver variation.
Very good video! Thank you!
As far as i know vluchtheuvels (flight hills) in between opposing traffic are mandatory in urban 50-roads so by definition you will find only multi staged ped crossings in the Netherlands unless theres a specific reason why its either very impractical or impossible
We call those center dividers in English, and are officially called middengeleiders in Dutch (and as a result not far off from the English translation). ;).
Will you do a video on the 'Tegelijk groen' cycling traffic lights in Groningen? These intersections are quite a sight to behold at peak hours.
No because I'm personally not a fan of that design as a general practice. It works well in some specific circumstances, but in most situations it's more efficient (and equally safe) to allow cyclists to cross while parallel vehicles are crossing.
And around 23:00 till 06:00 in the morning we turn the most not all licht off or on orange in the city !!! We even dont have to press the licht, the light know you stand there or on a bike. Its in the floor.
I find it kind of funny, well a lot of funny that you're doing a video on Dutch Traffic lights and within the first minute we see an old fart on a bike simply ignoring the red traffic light :D
Us Dutch are savage hahahaha
i want to point out he really didnt go through the red signal because the walking signal was still green when he crossed.
@@meinte12 ah, didn't catch that, still... Our cyclists are pretty infamous for treating traffic lights as optional. Or Christmas ornamensts. I confess to having done that myself on ocassion... 😇
@@markbigbadbear true i cant deny that but i also think its because of the so many cyclists in the netherlands there are more who break the rules i believe then. and you are not the only i have been a bad boy myself traffic lights concerned
@meinte12 well yes the signal for the pedestrians was green, but the man was a cyclists so either way he ignored the light, if he walked with his bike on the pedestrian lane he wouldn’t have ignored the signal however
For cyclists green means go, red means watch out first, then go. Though if you like to annoy motorists than first press the button for a green light and then cycle through the red light anyway.
u know all the lines on the street are for when the traffic lights arent working. than we use the rules that are on the street. when its snowing and the trafic lights dont work. the extra bords placed on the crossings go in to work. u have to follow them when its snowing anf u cant see the lines on the street
Longueuil uses a lot of multi-stage crossings, but I don't know how they are phased. I think they can really benefit from watching this.
I live in the Nederlands and I approve this video 👍🏽
I never thought I'd watch a video about traffic lights XD
Soms zijn zo rood, soms zijn ze groen,
in Almelo is altijd wat te doen.
@@dutchman7623 nice
Dude Ive biked so many times on that intersection!!!! So weird to see it here on youtube analysed by a random Canadian. I worked very near there. If you want to see this intersection yourself on google maps its Schieweg in Delft near the N470.
All the Google Maps links are in the description
Same
Do the Netherlands have anything similar to the North American Accessible Pedestrian Signal? If so, how do they message that the WALK indication is on only enough to cross the specific crossing rather than the whole crossing?
Yes they do! It's called the "ratteltikker" because it makes a rattling noise for "walk" and a ticking noise for "don't walk". The speakers (or physical bells) are located on the outside pedestrian poles only, so you can clearly hear from the median which half of the crossing is green (rattling) and which half is red (ticking).
@@OntarioTrafficMan We have similar all around town here in Madison. They were the 'old' way to help visually impaired but do not meet requirements for Accessible Pedestrian Signals.
One thing I've found with the APS devices here is what message to give people to let them know to cross to the median, and when they can start crossing to finish the street? Even when the ped movements are coordinated, there could be a chance someone keeps walking before the next WALK starts up.
Good video, thanks! Love to learn how to better time traffic signals!
@@EngMadison Giving intuitive APS indications is something I've been pondering a lot recently. One idea I had is that if there is an APS call, both halves of the crossing could be forced to stay in Walk for the amount of time for someone to reach the second half of the crossing in both directions. In the absence of a APS call, the two halves of the crossing would operate independently (with green waves or whatever).
It's always great to hear from others who are interested in the topic! My next video will also be about traffic signal timing - it's about the unique Dutch clearance time calculations.
@@OntarioTrafficMan Looking forward to it!
After watching 2 videos on similar subject, it's quite clear that NL's traffic is system is much more complex, advanced, well thought and definitely much more costly
It's more where to have to pay for.
The double light system in the VS cost extra cables. In NL we use that for that multi-stage solution.
The control unit is a standard system that is be programed for the crossing. But that also has a basis.
The Netherlands does spend more per signal, but they have far fewer signals per capita. Instead they only install them where actually necessary, and everywhere else on main roads there are roundabouts, carefully designed priority junctions and zebra crossings.
2:17 Just curious of what the alternating red signal labeled with warning signs main purpose is?
It's the traffic sign in Europe for 'Attention'. So in this case it's an extra reminder for pedestrians to watch out for the (heavy) bus.
2:31 Welcome to Spangen, Rotterdam;))))
I live here and still don't really understand what you say. What I can hear is that our pedestrians have a good life compared to north american pedestrians
Ik heb niet op de ondertiteling gelet. Als Nederlander, die getrouwd is met een Canadese, is mijn Engels goed genoeg om deze zeer interessante video zonder ondertiteling te volgen. Maar er zijn wel wat spelfouten in de benaming van de kruisingen in Rotterdam, te weten:
1. kruising Westzeedijk - Pieter de Hoochweg
2. kruising Vierhavenstraat - Keileweg.
Dankjewel! Ik heb die typefouten gecorrigeerd.
Aangezien de ondertitels al een paar jaar oud zijn (en ik dus een paar jaar minder ervaring had met het Nederlands toen ik ze geschreven heb), heb ik de ondertitels beoordeeld en daar ook een paar taalfouten gecorrigeerd.
@@OntarioTrafficMan tja... die typefouten in die kruisingen vielen mij op omdat ik in Rotterdam woon en zelfs in de buurt van de Pieter de Hoochweg.
@@Mandobanjoman Toen ik deze video heb gemaakt woonde ik ook in de buurt van Marconiplein... Ik had beter op moeten letten.
@@OntarioTrafficMan Écht?... ik woonde daar tot voor kort ook in de buurt...
Zometeen blijkt nog dat we buren waren... hihihi...
1:13 Vierhavensstraat, Marconiplein. I live nearby :)
I wish traffic planners in Queensland could adopt this. There are quite a few median refuges but the signals are ‘dumb’. The current aim is to have cars go through intersections and particularly slip lanes at the highest possible speed, pedestrians be damned!
In victora people just cross wherever they bloody want. You're not allowed to run them over even if they're jay walking, so its safe as!
man you got lucky in dutch its always raining lol good video man learning alot :)
greetings from the netherlands
Right now you'd be roasted in Western Canada and Western USA.
In the Netherlands we enjoy two meter high green wild herbs, poppies, and cornflowers in the cities!
@@dutchman7623 Yeh true but now it's storming as hell
@@nicecleandough1587 Yeah! Just cycled 8 km to a short appointment and back. My legs hurt, came to a full stop several times because of the wind.
G E K O L O N I S E E R D
2.32 s: but what do you do as a cyclists when the pedestrian direction turns green while the bicycle signal stays red?
This is exactly the topic of a video I'm planning to make! I initially found it odd when I moved here, but after becoming familiar with the signals it actually makes sense given the different travel times, like you can see at 2:53.
The safer the roads, the more rule-abiding people use them. So, normally people will wait untill they get the green. But there are some in a hurry, who bend the rules. Just like that guy on 2:32 or the moped on 6:00 who premeditatedly but illegally used the cycle crossing. And of course we too have mindless idiots who ignore any rules or danger. Those are the ones who will still cycle when streets are truly dangerous, or put their kids in danger because they ignore any signs: ruclips.net/video/EOXwpDZr7G4/видео.html
@@peterslegers6121 But at a two-stage bike crossing it's often actually faster to wait for the first crossing's green than to run the red, because when the second crossing becomes clear you have already accelerated, and can pass the prople who are in the middle and are starting from a standstill.
The moped at 6:00 was strange. They wanted to go straight, but were standing in the right turn lane. So of course the signal kept providing a right turn arrow and never a straight through green. After waiting a very long time, the scooter decided that their light would never change (which is true given where they were standing) and went through with the green that some cyclists had called.
I mean, you have your own eyes you can use to see if the traffic is clear.
If you see there are no cars going that way, you might as well just cross.
Note how the guy did still stop to check if the coast was clear.
@@PerfectAlibi1 Except that the traffic signal knows better when it will stop traffic at the next crossing than you do. Because once you identify that cars are stopping at the second crossing, you have already come to a stop in the middle of the street. But people who obeyed the lights are approaching the light having already accelerated and will arrive at the second crossing just as it turns green.
It's remarkable how foreigners can make the obvious and most simple solutions appear to be of an unearthly geniality while they are the norm in the Netherlands since the 1970's. I can't even remember the times where bicycles didn't have ultimate legal protection and where roads weren't designed to favor "slow traffic" over motorised vehicles. With exception of the highways, each and every road in the Netherlands favors the slower traffic (pedestrians and bicycles) over motorised vehicles. Add to this the legislation that states that the weaker party in an accident is always right and it's not very hard to see why pedestrians and bicycles are very confident moving around in traffic.
RUclips recommend dit waarschijnlijk aan alle Nederlanders
Ja het blijkt wel zo. Mijn doel was om Nederlandse ideeën over verkeerslichten met Canadese mensen te delen, maar dat is niet wat gebeurt...
@@OntarioTrafficMan haha maar toch wel leuk om te weten wat hun perspectief is op onze verkeerslichten.
@@1ivestreamer ja inderdaad
Why are there so many shitty toxic comments on such a nice, peaceful innocuous video? Like, just chill, enjoy the video and if you have to discuss something, discuss it in peace for fucks sake
Check 7:42 to see how well this all works hahaha first clip of a general response to a traffic light in the NL 😉
The future of a small country😎
Well, you see: here in UA you should only go counter clockwise to cross multistage. Reason: it is simply faster. It is set up this way. Idk how to explain. It is a fact. Tho it cycles on a clock (wo/ button)
Did you use PTV Vissim for the signal animations?
I was planning to, but I ended up just animating it manually using Blender.
It's a subtle question, coz there are several kinds of "multistage crossing". And each of them requires its own prerequisites to be implemented.
In general, they are more sophisticated and as a result more dangerous for pedestrians (especially for children).
There are three main types of multi-stage crossing in the Netherlands:
Hard-coupled crossings are where the first stage only receives a green when it's guaranteed that the pedestrian will get a green at the second crossing by the time they reach it. These are used where the median is too narrow to wait. The crossing at 3:13 is hard-coupled.
Soft-coupled crossings are where the first stage can begin whenever it has a chance and once the second crossing turns green, it will be held in green until pedestrians reach it, but in some cases, pedestrians may need to wait in the median. These are used where the median is wide enough to wait, but narrow enough to accurately estimate the arrival time of pedestrians. The crossing at 4:03 is soft-coupled.
Uncoupled crossings are where the two crossings operate independently, though the crossings may send requests to each other to provide advance notice of approaching pedestrians. These are used with very large medians where it's difficult to estimate when the pedestrian will arrive at the second crossing.
In general the extensive use of multi-stage crossings vastly improves safety, because they enable the use of fully-protected signals for turning motor traffic. This is especially beneficial for the safety of children and visually-impaired people, since they don't need to watch out for turning traffic. The multi-stage crossings also improve safety by improving respect for traffic signals. With single-stage crossings, pedestrians may be held at a red light even though there's no traffic conflicting with the first half of the crossing. This would encourage people to disobey signals.
There is little to no risk of someone looking at the wrong pedestrian signal head, because they are all placed in a straight line. So while you're at the first crossing and you look toward the signal for the second crossing (the wrong signal), the signal for the first crossing (the first signal) will be directly in your line of sight, or even completely block your view of the second signal. For visually impaired pedestrians, the audible signals are only played from the outer signal heads, so that someone on the median can clearly hear which half of the crossing is active.
@@OntarioTrafficMan
For hard-coupled :
there's a risk, that too fast moving pedestrian(for example running people) will reach second crossing before green light is turned on, and Wil not have idea about "two-stage" crossing, he has a high risk to be hitted by left turn car (what is much more dangerous than right turn because of higher speed). That's why in my country such approach demands at least "z-shape" of crossing.
For soft-coupled: the same objections + pedestrian here can be hitted by right moving car.
The main claim - pedestrian should be able to easily recognize (and prepared for) two-stage crossing, but it's not easy to organize (as an example - to use "z-shape crossing". Otherwise you put pedestrian in danger (especially fast running children).
@@__-de6he If a pedestrian is moving faster than expected, they might indeed arrive at the second crossing before it is green. But not necessarily, (see for example at 3:35). This is not a problem, because they will have already passed the first signal, and the only signal they can see is red. So they obviously need to stop. Even children can figure this out.
All traffic designs include some level of danger, but the goal is always to minimise that danger. The risk of someone not understanding the very simple concept of multi-stage crossings, is much lower than the safety benefits they create: namely by reducing the amount of unncessary red lights for pedestrians, and by facilitating the use of fully-protected signal phases.
The thing is multistage crossing is less widespread compared to usual crossing, so the running pedestrian will not be expected that signal heads might work not synchronously And since usually pedestrians do not look all the time at signal heads, he can easily get in trouble, especially children.
As to benefits to peds, it's a common question for traffic engineers - what is more preferable : safety(single stage crossing) or delay(multiple stage crossing).
But what about the blind? It's safer for them in Ontario because traffic isn't 'coming from all directions.' I am for adapting our traffic setups, but I do believe we have to accomodate the disabled here. It's not something the Europeans do as often.
Without changing any equipment, I would like to see croos signals remain showing the red hand, unless a pedestrian pushes the button. I am so tired of sitting at long (OVERLY) traffic cycles where there's seldom a pedestrian.
Do you think you could teach the nimrods at Ottawa City Hall a little about traffic management?
The blind benefit especially from the multi stage crossings because they facilitate fully-protected turning phases. That means that there are no turning vehicles during the pedestrian phase. Blind people are especially vulnerable to such vehicles since they are less able to react if a driver fails to yield.
Blind pedestrians have been accommodated in the Netherlands for far longer than in Ontario, using audible tones on the signals. At multi-stage crossings, the audible signals in the Netherlands indicate which half of a given crossing is currently displaying Walk by only sounding the "walk" tone on the side of the street which is displaying Walk.
I saw the Dutch flag and I immidiatly clicken on the video becuase im Dutch.
I love to see my home town (Rotterdam) in an American video 😀
Hoezo is dit een Amerikaanse video?
@@OntarioTrafficMan Ik dacht, je woont in Amerika, maar nu snap ik beter waarom je zoveel over Nederland weet. Als ik jou was zou ik terugkomen en in Rotterdam wonen. O ja, en de video was in het Engels
@@DiePersoon Ik woon nu in Delft maar toen ik deze video heb gemaakt woonde ik wel in Rotterdam
@@OntarioTrafficMan ik dacht in Amerika, ook wegens de naam “Ontorio” (ik dacht in Amerika). Hele interessante video trouwens
@@DiePersoon Ontario is een provincie in Canada. Canada ligt wel in Noord Amerika, maar als je "American" zegt in het Engels betekent het tegenwoordig "uit de Verenigde Staten"
Great video as always. What are your thoughts for potential implementation on iON?
At a quick glance, it appears that there are many places that they chose to not implement multi-stage crossings along the existing iON route, even when there's already a physical median that would be sufficiently wide. Splitting these long crossings into two separate crossings while keeping the same timing would allow the signals to respond more quickly to approaching light rail vehicles, without making any difference to pedestrians when there isn't a light rail vehicle approaching.
Wait, was the first street hwy 7, in Toronto?
In Vaughan actually, but yes it's Highway 7.
@@OntarioTrafficMan i was like i recognize it c:
Most of those pedestrian / bike buttons in the NL are actually fake and just there to make sure people waiting there feel like the traffic light knows they're there. But in reality there are sensors under the pavement that have already detected the pedestrians or bikes and are estimating how many there are.
The buttons are not fake. For pedestrians there are some intersections with radar or other detectors, but these are extremely rare. At nearly all intersections pedestrians must press the button to get a green light. For cyclists you are correct that there is almost always a detector in addition to the button. But the button still works too. One advantage of the button is that the request is processed immediately, whereas the detector typically has a delay time of a couple seconds to avoid detecting a cyclist who is running the red.
I can tell you that here in Rotterdam there are plenty of intersections that will _never_ turn green for pedestrians unless you actually push the button. If the intersection is completely devoid of traffic of any type (e.g. late at night), all lights will remain red and the moment you push the button the pedestrian signal instantly turns green.
Currently these intersections are a bit more rare during the day since many have been configured to automatically trigger pedestrian phases without requiring any manual trigger, as a temporary COVID measure, though people frequently push the button anyway. It puzzles me why people don't just use their elbow instead of touching those (undoubtedly gross) buttons with their hands, which I still see people doing all the time. I appreciate that a pedestrian crossing near the Erasmusbrug actually has a sign below the button with a pictogram of someone pressing the button with their elbow, I wish those were more common.
The Guy at 2:30. "Red light?, What red light, I didn't see that!"
You see him looking to the right. At the moment when he crosses the pedestrian light shows green. That of course means that he as a cyclist, who would typically be faster, will be able to cross without a problem. As such, I see no problem with this to be honest. Near my work the light for cyclists usually turns green 2 full seconds before the pedestrian light does. It results in an easier full crossing at this wide street than if I would really wait for the pedestrian light to turn green. Many times I'm able to safely cross the whole street while many others who work in the same building have to wait on the next phase. (also.. I walk relatively fast :P)
Love this.
So why are North American signals done the way they are?
Two-stage crossings are opposed by pedestrian advocacy groups in North America because of the history of North American authorities implementing them in a way that was really horrible for pedestrians.
Cool comparison.
Thats funny...that crosding,stroomrugbaan in Vleuten...is at my street...i live there.
2:10 is in Vleuten its next to where i live
It's not all safe. There is a type of trafficlight for cyclists that has a circle of small white lights around them. The white lights disappear one by one to give you an indication when the light is about to go green. When it's busy they disappear slow and on quiet moments they almost vanish instantly. I've seen cyclists anticipating the light to go green and already pulling up while the light remained red for sometimes even 20 seconds. Can't blame them, instead I blame the companies who implemented this system. The circle of lights is meant as an indicator, so people anticipate. You don't expect two lights to hang for ten seconds, while the previous fifty lights disappeared quickly.
Most municipalities have a rule that once the number of white lights drops below a certain number, the green light is guaranteed. That rule is specifically intended to prevent the situation you described. However the exact policy varies per road authority.
In The netherlands we have the best and smartest trafic lights in the world. I am Always annoyed by simple timed traffic lights in other countries.
Not anymore, that place has been taken by the german city of Hamburg who have deployed self learning traffic lights, powered by AI based technology.
@@lillexus5589 AI is such a misnomer often. What it usually means is a self adjusting algorithm. It's far from being some form of intelligence. Dutch traffic light systems have been auto readjusting for many years already. There's lots of technology and programming behind it.
@@lillexus5589 Doesn't come close Germany
Rofl .. that was Rotterdam (01:12) , about 500 meters from my house by Marconiplein :)
Yeah I filmed there because it was also about 500 meters from my house by Marconiplein.
Trafficlights: gekoloniseerd!!
3:32 So last day I was waiting for the red sign in my car and there was a pedestrian just standing whilst he had green light 🤷🏻♂️
Why youtube recommand me this?
It seems that RUclips really wants it to be G E K O L O N I S E E R D. This was not my intention at all, sorry about that.
@@OntarioTrafficMan np bro i rlly liked the video lol
In the Netherlands a lot of people just look if they can walk and walk if they can regardless of the color of the light 😂
Is amsterdam living in the future....?
Basicly we have no choice, we need efficiant road designs and efficiant traffic lights. We have a small country and the population keeps growing rapidly. So the ammount of car owners and other traffic members wil grow aswell. One of the main reasons our population grows so fast is because we accept so much refugees, it's insane.
Lekker bob
Also too much expats if you ask me. Very disrespectfull that most of them do not learn Dutch.
Just came to this channel from NotJustBikes recommendation. It's interesting material although higher resolution videos would be better.
I work with zero budget. My software only supports up to 720, and one of my cameras also only supports 720p.
@@OntarioTrafficMan understand, not blaming, just wanted to give a friendly advice
@@mishamovdivar Of course! Always good to hear what people think. Just saying that it's not something I can easily change.
That guy at around 2:38 drove through the red light lol
No, the pedestrian light was green, so consequently you can treat the bike light to be green as well. Even though we might have efficient traffic lights, most pedestrians and cyclists here cross the street as they see fit, regardless of the traffic light color.
6:57 wait what?! i've watched enough of these videos to know that we're blessed in the Netherlands but this just seems ridiculous
We too have a few of those crossings, but cars always have to give way to the pedestrians/cyclists.
@@_JoyceArt Cars always have to give way in Canada as well, but the problem is that drivers often consider swerving around the pedestrian to be a suitable form of giving way, like you see in the video.
Omg hey. I live there 😂 02:11 vleuten
Cool video
Greetings + like from Madrid
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