Project Mold Smoothie Pt. 2- The FINALE! Let's compare to a real Old Smoothie!- LowEndLobster Builds
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2020
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Hey everyone! Project Mold Smoothie is now complete! Today we're going to be comparing it to a real Old Smoothie and see how close we can get to this $2500 handbuilt masterpiece with a $300 bass and about $200 worth of parts. Is Mold Smoothie smooth enough to hang with the real thing? Let's find out!
Part 1: • Project Mold Smoothie ...
Part 1.5: • Project Mold Smoothie ...
Part 2: • Project Mold Smoothie ...
Part 3: • The RETURN of Project ...
Bridge mutes: banjowarehouse.com/product/mu...
Pickup: www.ebay.com/itm/Wilkinson-MW...
Preamp: www.mojotone.com/Pickups_x/Mo...
Big thanks to Dom @ ThirdFloorGuitars for setting up my instruments. You can find him at www.thirdfloorguitars.com
Discord: discord.gg/dzrFMzD
Facebook: LowEndLobster
Twitter: @LowEndLobster
Instagram: LowEndLobster
Reverb: reverb.com/shop/lowendlobster 
Развлечения
Oddly enough, I preferred the tone of the mold smoothie in the blind listening test. I didn’t expect that.
When listening with my “eyes” I preferred the real old smoothie.
I really appreciate the bridge modification. Nice touch.
Thank you! Moldy is interesting, definitely has a bit of its own vibe going with the deeper sound and less high end. Glad you enjoyed it :)
I got the exact impression.
You did a fantastic job. Your mold smoothie sounds just fine for a fraction of the cost
Thanks Richard!
Old smoothie. Mold yikes. Sorry Lobster
@@Solelova67 No apology needed! :)
Ahahaha 2 years later and the Verge PC Build guy still catching them memes!
He will never live that down... so epically bad.
Those cats sound really good, honestly!
Kitty pickups are the best!
Cheers,
Jöe
Haha thanks!
I prefer mold smoothie. Great job with the mods! Your channel is a lot of fun.
Thanks Rick!
Woah! A Stingray I actually like the tone of! Unheard of! Call the press!
Now we need a Mint vs Mold Head to Head! to compare budget MM builds
What a great idea! Someone's already offered to buy Moldy, but I will shoot that before I send 'er out.
Thanks for this I’m just waiting for my Sub delivery at the moment! All noted. Cheers.🇬🇧
wow, that sounds really nice, definitely an awesome budget option. I think i'd just use a sponge instead of doing all the work on those mutes though.
Thank you! Yep, sponge would do the trick. I just wanted to see how close I could get to an OG smoothie bridge with this thing and some elbow grease ahaha. Pretty happy with the result!
I wonder if that Wilkinson pickup is the cause of the lack of highs in comparison to the Real Old Smoothie. Perhaps spending the $100 on the Aguilar or equivalent pickup would be worth it at this point. I actually have Kiesel MM pickups in one of my projects, and they sound fantastic.
Indeed! However, this project has found a new home.
Awesome job smoooth
Thank you! There was a follow up to this that was more recent with an Aguilar pickup, definitely worth watching!
The difference in the mids is unmistakable the musicman is so much more
defined
Absolutely. I wasn't satisfied with the result here. Check out my follow up where we swap in am Aguilar AG5M and get much closer
Sounds like it turned out well. More fuel for the "modify a Sterling" fire that rages in my brain.
Thanks Josh! These things are so much fun to mod. The basswood is super easy to dremel away too, the cavity mod was painless.
On a related note, my Squier has been getting a lot more play than my Fender Road Worn and American Pro and I think that says a lot.
I play my modded SBMM Ray4 as much as I play my Pedulla Buzz. With a few mods, these cheap Rays are excellent pro quality basses.
Presta chuck dang. That’s even more of a price difference. I’m looking into SBMMs as well! Thanks for the insight, that’s incredible.
11:53 damn you're right, i really like that tone
Thanks Ruben! :) Though it sounds a bit different than the real smoothie, I really like how it came out overall.
On the mold smoothie- the bass cut 100% and the treble at 50% has a more comparable tone to the old smoothie on any setting.
Thank you! Indeed, the more heavily round wilkinson was bassier overall but just boosting the treble definitely put it in the same neighborhood.
Sorry to say but I think the aguilar pickup would be better value for money. For me the top end is a bit closed in, less bandwidth. Maybe its the hardness of the woods (roasted etc) that gives that top end snap too. Mold smoothy is just a little rubber bandy.
Liking the new intro
Liking the new intro
Thanks James!
I had this dream the other day where I wanted to build a "modern smoothie", which was basically a 5-string version of an old smoothie with two pickups, but said pickups being 6-string bongo pickups...and i had it tuned to A so when I knocked the mids it sounded like freaking Korn's tone xD
Ah man, I gotta try that some time.
You're a madman! I like it :)
@@LowEndLobster I'm sure it isn't too hard to pull off, but it'll require sooooo much patience.
Maybe I could throw in either a Tone Monster preamp, or a Darkglass Tone Capsule for good measure!
@@WildWildWeasel :O... his power level... is over 9000
@@LowEndLobster I have abit of experience man, I used to treat bass and guitars like legos haha.
Great vid. It's a lot of fun modifying guitars.
Thanks Peter! It really is. These mod projects are great :)
The winner of the blind test is: Cats grooming?
Always ahahaha
Hey Lobster, Ive since heard Carey Nordstrand based his MM4.2 and MM5.2 on the preEB pickups. He makes them in 19mm Lakland spacing.
From the moment you hit the first note on Mold Smoothie I thought, "That sounds like the Barney Miller bass!" Was hoping you'd play that old theme on it. Oh, well... anyway, it certainly wasn't anywhere near as bright or clear as the real Old Smoothie, I'm thinking that might be the pickup as it definitely sounded a lot brighter and clearer in your last video with the new preamp/original pickup combo. Really wonder what it would sound like with the Aguilar. .🤔
Thanks Michael! Interestingly enough, I was trying to get some info out of EB the other day on the smoothie special sauce... no luck. From what I understand, the smoothie pickup has like half the winds compared to this Wilkinson. Not sure how I'd get a smoothie-esque pickup without going the custom route.
The old smoothie has that top end zing typical of a stingray
Indeed it does!
Great job! Maybe an alnico pickup would tame it down a little, you might want to consider that.
Thanks Bob! Yep, I think an Aguilar alnico MM5 pickup would have been best here, but it's much more expensive than the wilkinson in here and would make this go way over budget. However, something for the next owner to consider ;)
@@LowEndLobster True dat. Anyways, great job, love the channel!
Love the intro
Thanks Mike!
Ok, just edumacated myself the original can be found under old smoothie $2500 - $ 3000 on Reverb(which I have no love for). So now to track down the reissue.
Hey Alan! So the Reissue is what you're seeing on Reverb. There's only one original smoothie, prototype #26. The "Old Smoothie" Anniversary basses are reissues, and this Mold Smoothie is a DIY replica.
Yo lobster I placed that Aguilar MM4 on my Sterling ray 4 sub. The Sound is unbelievable playing it through a sansamp going a GK 500 unbelievable
Awesome! Great to hear!
@@LowEndLobster now I want to replace the 2 band EQ any suggestions?
John East if you want the best, Mojotone if you want a nice budget replica of the OG 2-band.
@@LowEndLobster Ok thanks, so the name I have to lookup is John East mojo tone 2 band EQ ?
@@victorencarnacion4696 Mojotone 2 band is one preamp (cheaper), John East MMSR 2 band is the nicer one.
Now you have to make Cliff Williams 'Ray before EBMM releases it's version :D
:O
I saw that... it's so purdy
@@LowEndLobster That sunburst... and yellow neck...
Can’t pay attention to bass, too much cuteness !
Your cats are such good buddies
My kitty needs a pal
Thanks Ras! Yes they are. They were buds from day 1 which is super unusual. On 7.5 years with em now :)
LowEndLobster
My kitty is 15 or so
Don’t think she would be into it but you never know
@@rasmillion Ah, I got Bebe when she was 8 months old. Previous owners had a baby who was allergic. I got Goon a few months earler when she was between 1.5-2 years.
Blind test
1. Mold
2. Old
I think if the moldy had the treble tweaked up just a bit it would have been identical.
Thanks James!
Loving the channel, Lobster! Are the mutes you linked to always engaged? And can you adjust them on the fly? And individually?
Thank you! They're adjustable with the little thumb screws just like they would be on the real thing
ok, i'm in love with the cats ahahahaha
They're great :)
@@LowEndLobster oh yeah! but now, i'm loving the bass too ahahah
Low end lobster Signature Musicman SUB?👀👀👀
I've said it before it has some P Bass vibes from the punchy warm woody sound but tighter? And I LOVE that Ngl it sounds gorgeous. Frankly liked the warmth of the monotone pre amp one 👀 it sounded Warmer and more round to me
Thank you :)
Mold smoothie is awesome but old smoothie slaps better
I had difficulty distinguishing much difference between the oem and the wilkinson pickups. They both generate quite a lot of distortion when the bass is boosted to 50% or above. That being said, the Mold Smoothie with the bass flat and treble boosted sounds a lot like the Old Smoothie does flat. I don’t really like the clickiness of the Old Smoothie. It doesn’t sound very smooth. I wonder how the Mojotone preamp might sound with a better pickup. I might have to find out for myself. Great video! Thanks!
Thanks Chuck! So it turns out the OEM smoothie pickup has about half the winds of the wilkinson and I guess the EBMM pickups are lower output in general and leverage the preamp a bit more, where the Wilkinson and the SUB pickups appear to be "passive" in the sense that they are more geared for vol/tone vs a powerful preamp IMO. I'm curious about the Mojotone with a better pickup as well. I sold this project already but there will be more SUB projects ahead for sure, and another Mojotone will make an appearance :)
Was the pickup simply a drop in with just having to rewire it? Really interested in doing what you did
Did you have to route out the pickup cavity to fit the 5 string pickup or does it fit into the SUB 4 string cavity?
Mold sounds great, Old a bit better. Nice to know you get something for 4-5x the price. Do the mutes work or are they just decorative?
Thank you! Mutes are fully functional :)
I would recommend Donlis MM Alnico V pickups via Aliexpress.
Thank you!
@totomo, Post a video with a comparison between the oem and the donlis pickups. I see one person plugging that pickup on youtube, and one person plugging that pickup on the Talkbass forums, but no testimony or video comparison from an actual customer. For less than $100 more, there are name brand pickups available that are well known proven performers.
@@prestachuck2867 the Donlis mm pickups are cheap around USD29.00 and available white pickups cover currently. I suggest you get one and figure it out.
Do the screws for the mutes have metal inserts or were they stable just going into the wood?
They went into the wood. I may re attempt this bridge mod with inserts to see if I could get better results as they were more for show than anything
2. Old Smoothie - - - Mold smoothie lacks the distinctive click that is inherent in MM...
Yup, agreed. Thank you :)
What did you think about the preamp itself? Does it mimic the original MM? Is it a worthwhile upgrade?
Honestly, it's hard to say. I did part 1.5 with just the preamp, but the stock pickup is IMO really not great. I'd like to do another SUB project but with a more traditional (and better) aftermarket pickup and the mojotone. Next SUB mod project for sure.
@@LowEndLobster I thought this might be difficult to answer because you probably did the pre and pup at the same time? (I must have missed part 1.5?)
As you know I have the same bass except it's a 5 string and it sounds more like my SR5 than any of the three Ray35's I used to own. The only issue I had with the sound of the sub was the "B" string, it was way louder than the others and i had to lower the pup on the bass side to compensate, however it was the strings that caused because as soon as I changed the strings I had to raise the pup back up to normal level, I have never seen this before. I no longer have the Sr5 so I can't do a comparison but I'm real happy with this Ray5 and the way it sounds, to my ears it has that Stingray sound or it's close to it.
There was a definite difference between the two - although you did a good job.
The genuine smoothie was... well, smoother.
Wilkinson pickups are a bit bass heavy; my P Bass pickup had to be adjusted to make sure it was even across the range. But once you get it right they are a wonderful pickup for the price.
Is Mold Smoothie going to be the next giveaway? ::hint, hint::
Thanks Rev! Smoothie's actually already sold to another viewer haha. Another Giveaway will be happening soon though ;)
LowEndLobster - Dammit!!
would sound great with a fretless neck and some tape wounds i think
The real one has that clanky RHCP sound, more treble on the cheaper one brings only noise level up.
Agreed! I think it's the pickup choice here, someone made a very good observation regarding how the pickup is made. This one has almost double the winds of the original one.
Oh yeah bass 2
Thanks Jonathan :)
BTW - what is that fingerstyle riff you use?
I made it up a month or so ago and just enjoy playing it :)
I have a cort gb75 jh 5 string, I really like it but the jazz pickup is alot lower sounding than the mm pickup what can I do for that and have you played one
Thanks Jonathan! I haven't played one of those, but jazz pickups have different tonal characteristics to a mm pickup, and with the J pickup in the neck position it's going to sound deeper.
I prefer the sound of the moded sterling except when being slapped the real one sounds way better then. Have you sold it yet?
Thanks Paul! Yep, this one sold fast to a viewer on the discord :).
@@LowEndLobster oh damn.You did a really nice job on that too. Guess I'll have to put one together myself. Thanks for the great idea tho.
Why a 5 strings pickup in the 4 strings? How it affects the tone? By the way congrats for the channel, really like your reviews. Subbed.
Thanks Peter! This was to replicate the "old smoothie" which has a similar pickup. Here's Sterling Ball talking about the history of the Smoothie: ruclips.net/video/R2ZRWzEBIzE/видео.html
having seen the video where you change the pickup and leave the original preamp, i would rather put the aguilar pickup and leave the stock preamp
Indeed! I agree that the pickup swap is definitely more impactful than the preamp swap
Hey Lobster, what are the size of the metal inserts you put into the wood below the bridge to be able to screw in the adjustable bridge mutes? I'm finding it really hard to source the right part for that in trying to install the mutes on a SUB Ray4. Got a link to the part? I've tried a few different sizes, but they are UK sizes, and I suspect I need a USA specific size/part...
I didn't use inserts, screwed right into the wood after I drilled a hole ;P
@@LowEndLobster huh, well, ok then, lol!! I that basswood was a bit soft to tolerate that...
@@SuperFunkyPete It held without issues, the mutes aren't really offering any real resistance. The plate that they're on is pretty thin and flexible. I sold this bass but still talk with the owner, we'll be revisiting this bass next month and taking it a step further ;).
Oh sweet, can’t wait to see. Added an Aguilar AG4M and a John East MMSR 2 band to mine and it sings. Thanks so much for your reviews, they helped make the decision!
Hello, did you sell Mold smoothly? Would like to own something you have setup and worked on. One of the Low End specials. Thanks
I did! Best way is to keep an eye out on my Reverb store and join the Discord channel. :)
Mold Smoothie is way smoother than Old Smoothie. May not be as Stringray in it's sound but it is smoother.
Thanks Russell!
I agree .
hi what is this color of SUB ray 4 called ? i cant seem to find the same on any website... there is a sunburst with maple fretboard but it doesnt look like the one you have here ( yeah i know you have changed the pickgaurd to white )
This is the matte vintage sunburst. Looks different on the SBMM webpage, but this is it IRL
@@LowEndLobster what looks better in person,this or mint green?
@@pratyulmusic IMO this. The matte sunburst is gorgeous, and feels like a high quality finish - not rough feeling like the Squier Active J in matte black.
@@LowEndLobster trust your judgements , so in person sunburst is a better looker than mint green , right ? 🙂.... sorry for too many questions , websites do not depict colors accurately :(
To me mold smoothie was a bit deeper and had better sustain 🤷🏻♂️
:)
Sterling needs a better preamp in my opinion. Can't seem to hear enough treble even at 100%. Not enough treble to help with clarity. I think a pickup or preamp swap should do the trick.
Yeah I noticed the same thing, I think the $40 pickup from Wilkinson wasn't that much of a step up in quality either. I'd be curious to see what this would sound like with an Aguilar pickup as those have the same pole spacing as the actual Smoothie pickup and better materials overall. Didn't want to go that far over budget though.
It is the pickup! Leo's original pickup design and MM's has lower impedance in parallel something like 1.5kOhm while oversee knock off's has 3kOhm in parallel. Basically, this means that Chinese pickups have more windings than MM's (double!). That's because they are made for passive operations. More windings mean more output level and with more copper wire you get less highs. Copper acts like a Low Pass filter when it is a lot of copper. So Leo was thinking this way "I will put less windings and have low output and richer tone and than I will add a preamp to compensate for output. And I will put two-band EQ while I am here". This was my imagination of Leo's thinking but it is not far from the truth when you listen to stingray.
Thanks Bro Cetta 🙏 I didn't know that and I'm happy for the information
@@myhapylife DUDE! THANK YOU. I literally called EB yesterday to try and get that info. I was sure that the real smoothie pickup had a lot less winds but had no documentation on it. It would be interesting to get a custom "replica" made, but probably not worth the price for the project. THANK YOUUUUU!
Bear in mind, this is oversimplified, the pickup sound is affected by many other factors. BTW you can try to "unwound" cheap pickup. I am in process of doing that as an experiment.
Are the big screws on the side of the bridge necessary if I want to install mutes?
No, just aesthetic
@@LowEndLobster cool! Also, for the 10 pole pickup, did yo7 use a dremel to drill a larger slot for the pickup?
Never mind just saw it!
@@LowEndLobster Hey, just one more question. I wanna make my Ray 24 have the original music man mute bridge. If I want to get the stock Ray 4 bridge, are the side anchors necessary? Would it provide stability and extra strength to the bridge if I have them on the side or they just for cosmetics?
It's just cosmetic from what I understand. The stingray specials don't have em, so I don't think they'd have that big of an impact.
Why did you use a five string pickup as a posed to a four string one? . The mold smoothy sounds slightly like your running it through a flanger , only mildly but I can definitely hear it.
That's how the musicman prototype was done and it was reissued. It puts your thumb in a funny place compared to the four pickup I think that's what Leo was going for.
If you look at the original Smoothie, there's 10 poles instead of 8. This was the cheapest decent option out there to replicate that without spending a hundred bucks :)
@@LowEndLobster yeah I've been looking around myself and I does seem to be that the ten pole ones are cheaper than the eight for some strange reason, especially on Ebay.
Have you sold it?
Yes, but we have a revisit coming :)
Videos like these make me glad I have a subwoofer. I think the Old Smoothie is, smoother. Does the cat video classify as "kitty porn"? I'll show myself out.
XD
So I got the mojotone pre...wired it up..:nada...Andy help bro?
You're getting no output? Hop onto our discord server for help :)
@@LowEndLobster how do I find it...nube for sure 🤣
@@andrewgibson333 discord.gg/dzrFMzD
@@LowEndLobster you the man for helping me get my bass up and running bro 🦞✌️
Ok he used a Sub Bass sounds nice. Being a noob I have no idea what an Old Smoothie sounds like.
Lobster made (what to my ears) was his first snob comment. Lobster it is great when any musican can earn anything like a decent living with music whatever angle they come at it from.
It is somewhat of a letdown when a comment dismissing an instrument and potential buyer as less than because you own the high end original therfore have no use for said instrument.
Stanley Clarke comes off as kinder and more personable than Marcus Miller(given) Mr. Miller's performance on Thomann's Bass Summit. He ignored the obvious awed Julia over the more confident and flashy guy who was on stage also. If I were to buy a Bass from either one of them it would be Stanley.
Your just a Bass guy persona and your info keep me coming back. You generally make a noob feel comfortable.
Hey Alan! This is a pretty old series, but I did end up revisiting this bass and installing a better pickup. I also did a side by side comparison with my Old Smoothie. The results were MUCH better! Check it out - ruclips.net/video/nFHk_UxhqRg/видео.html
Ok, edumacte a noob. Scale length, catalog designations(or can I search) musicman stingray ernie ball old smoothie to find this $500 pre mods replica/reissue Bass?
Hey Alan! So this bass here is a DIY replica which cost around $500 or so in parts at the time (though the preamp is discontinued now). The Old Smoothie reissues from Music Man were made for a bit in the mid 2010's. That's what my Old Smoothie is (not this Mold Smoothie). There is only ONE original smoothie, that's prototype #26 that was made in the mid 70's by Leo Fender.
Blind test was pretty "obvious")
Aye, the Wilkinson didn't really hit the mark. Check out my revisit of this bass where we swap in am Aguilar pickup and nail the smoothie vibe
@@LowEndLobster ok, maybe later. But, I'd like Wilkinson all in all more, than original - it's got more lows. In my taste.
Musicmans are different, in my taste lots of them like jazz bridge pickup on steroids. But there are some exceptions. Wilkinson pretty can make that sound.
Question is, how does Moldy FEEL compared to Oldie?
Sounds great by the way.
And what would it sound like with roundwounds? I find flatwounds more difficult to play.
It feels like a SUB ;P. I like the feel of the SUB basses but it's night and day between one of those and a classic styled EBMM USA.
@@LowEndLobster Does a Ray34 feel like a EBMM USA?
@@MrJohnnyorange Great question! Yes and no. Neck dimension wise, yes the Ray34 has the same profile as the USA 'Rays vs the Ray24 and Ray4 which use the J-bass/Sterling profile. However, they won't feel the same as the USA uses the wax/oil finish, so the texture is a little different but both feel good.
Does Mr Lobster have a email?
Channel name at Gmail :)
Mold Smoothie actually sounded MORE vintage. More of the glassy attack and hollow resonance
This is heretical but the Old Smoothie sounded... meh. Maybe it's because Mold came first in the sound test, and my ears were comparing one to the other, but Old sounded... well, new. More modern. Less disco, more modern
These Sterling mod videos are going to be bad for my wallet. I've only been playing a month now and my SUB is giving me worried looks from the corner...
:) they're a really great mod platform
I can't subscribe. The whole Lobster thing is just too goofy.
Now my hand will never be able to change back! LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE! Channel over. ;P