HVAC AC Compressor Locked Up ( LRA )
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2020
- HVAC AC compressor locked up. This video is about how to check locked rotor amps ( LRA ) on a HVAC AC compressor. If the air conditioner is trying to start but is failing to do so, it's possible that the compressor is drawing locked rotor amps and is seized up. In this video I explain what LRA is, how to measure it, and what can be done to fix a seized up compressor.
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I installed a 5-2-1 on my 2 Ton Condenser even though it did not need it. The in rush current went down dramatically ! It now starts even smoother that it did before.
A technician tested my home AC and said I needed a new compressor because it would not start. A few days later another technician arrived with the new compressor. Thanks to your website I asked a few questions. The technician put in another capacitor and a booster. The AC started and all diagnostics tests were fine. This saved me $1,750.00. This video helped me understand enough to ask the right questions. Super. Thanks.
I’ve watched thousands of Hvac videos (don’t ask) and this guy is by far the best in terms of clarity and teaching. I’m glad you were able to save almost 2k
Thank you so much for making the life of an HVAC student like me A LOT EASIER!!!
Happy I could help! :) Thanks for watching and commenting!
Your a hero to us newbies. You have pulled me out of some tough times. I feel confident watching your videos. This makes me feel good and I treat people nice because I am having a good day.
Just made a donation to u via PayPal. U have helped me over the weekend to get my furnace working again. I can’t thank u enough for all that u do. U r a true lifesaver and I feel that I need to pay u for ur time and knowledge. Thank u again and keep up the great work.
I appreciate that, thank you! Glad to hear that you were able to get the furnace fixed and my videos helped in the process. Stay warm! :)
Great info Jay, and well presented. Been out of the business since finishing college, but decided to rebuild my outside units and needed a refresher, also needed info on the new refrigerant comparisons (22 drop-ins and such. Great series of vid's. Thanks
I'm glad that you broke it down very effectively.
Thanks dude you are much more resourceful and clear cut them most technicians. Keep building my guy 💪👍👍
Thank you Jarvis! Glad to hear the videos are easy to follow!
Awesome video for the young cats very useful not everyone can explain it like you thanks for your patience an help keep up the good work and I'll wait for the next video.
Thank you Jaime!!
I owez get it 💯 when u explain Man.. God bless you 🙏
awesome presentation! thank you so much for sharing! your work is really great! love all your videos.
Cleaning those coils would extend the life of that compressor.
what coils
Right? Lol let's overlook the biggest compressor killer
Great video with bunches of information
Bingo Bango! Another welcome video buddy! Nothing better than a quiet Sunday morning sipping on some java and listening to Jay on another instalment of Word of Advice! Thanks again Jay, hope you and the family are very happy in your new location and thanks for the after the video information. I LIVE for that part of the video. LOL. Take care!
Lol, thank you Patrick! We appreciate you always joining in for the videos! The family is doing great! We are enjoying Hawaii :) I should film an update video in the next few weeks on how things are going over here. Good to hear that you enjoy the endings of the videos! Sorry that they are not always great, sometimes it's just a lame dad joke lol. I almost feel bad about doing that since people like you are actually looking forward to the ending... But then again, it also gives the interesting aspect of not knowing what to expect at the end. Almost like opening a fortune cookie. Some are meh and some are good ;)
Love your vidios Jake, keep up the good work.
Excellent, continue making more videos from Hawaii. I really like your videos. Thanks.
Compressor savers do NOT reduce the maximum inrush current. They provide extra starting torque, causing the amount of time that the compressor is pulling LRA to be reduced, but for the moment of inrush, the compressor saver INCREASES the current.
So after installation if the inrush current doesn't drop much, how can you verify that the compressor saver is working correctly?
Thanks for posting another video.
And thank you for watching yet another one! :)
I initially measured my HVAC AC compressor, that has a LRA of 95 amps, with a min/max clamp on meter and got a reading of 75.7 amps and I thought that's good. Then a friend of mine got in my head and told me I needed an inrush meter for that measurement. I caved and bought one and then got a reading of 95.7 amps. I just ordered a hard start kit and hopefully that helps.
FROM CHICAGO EXLENT VIDEO THANK YOU SO MUCH
Great information! Awesome
Great videos! ✌️
Great video like always keep them videos coming
I recommend changing them every 5 years. Only use Hard Start Kits that use a true Potential Relay. The RectorSeal Kickstart (2 wire) and the 5-2-1 Compressor Saver (3 wire) use a Potential Relay. I recommend the RectorSeal Kickstart (it uses 2 wires that connect to the Run Capacitor - HERM and COM). But the Compressor Saver is also good (3 wires with one connecting to the common / ground on the Contactor).
They both work the same way - the Potential Relay detects the pickup voltage (back EMF). This causes the relay to disconnect the start capacitor when the compressor reaches about 75% speed (less than a second).
Note: Before any hard start kit is installed, the compressor run capacitor should be replaced or at least checked to confirm it is still within its rated specifications using a capacitance meter.
Note: Supco does have hard start kits with a Potential Relay (Models 3W1, 3W2, 3W3, MPR1, MPR5, SPR5, SPR1, SPP4E, SPP5E, SPP6E, SPP7E, SPP8E, SPP9E, SPP10E) but some don't!
Thank you for all the additional info Capt!
Thanks
@@WordofAdviceTV
Thank you so very much pal
You are very good at your work and also a very good teacher
Thank you again
Excellent! Really like your channel! 👍👍
Jay! Just received my first HVAC contractor job this week! 10/12/20 was my first day, your UEI meter that I got because of you surprised the guy field training me. Cheers bud, thank you so much for these videos. I may rock a GoPro at one point and make some of my own. In the meantime, maybe you should do a video or truck stock and/or how you organize your truck?
That's awesome David! Good luck with the new job and any future ventures with a GoPro! We just moved to Hawaii so my van is gone. I only took my tool bag with me so it may be a while before I can make a video like that.
@@WordofAdviceTV I've been in Hawaii before (Kona area) and I loved it. I hope you and your family are having a blessing stay.
Learn how to distinguish a compressor muffler from a factory installed filter drier and you will be heads and shoulders above most of the guys who are field training new guys.
Not sure that using the Max button and Inrush are equivalent. To measure Inrush, you need a clamp meter with an actual Inrush button, because it measures current in the first 100 milliseconds of startup. Max doesn’t capture current in that time frame. Soft start kits are more effective at reducing startup amps than hard starts which actually spike the compressor start winding with higher amps to kick start the compressor.
good info, soft start kits reduce amps
You are awesome man!
Thank you! :)
Another great video 👍👍👍
Thanks Harry! Aloha from Hawaii 🤙🤙🤙
Jay, again a great YT video! Can you show how you installed the compressor saver kit, and is it different than just adding a hard start kit?
Great video thanks for posting! Kind of curious if you measure the amps from the L1 and L2 wires Individually will the sum of those two equal the amperage measured on the common? Thanks for another great video
I couldn't have clicked on this fast enough !!!! So excited 🙉
Haha glad to hear that! :) Thank you for watching and commenting!
Fine video, thanks!
Glad you liked it! Thanks for leaving a comment!
Hope you’re do a video on the “Micro-Air EasyStart” soon. It’s a soft start, just the opposite of the hard start. It will drop the inrush amps 60 to 70%.
Thank you for the suggestion! I will add this to the list.
@@WordofAdviceTV I have installed two, plan to do 4 more this coming week. They do what they claim!
Very good video
GUAUUUUUUU very usefull for me thank you so much
Just your positive attitude was worth the watch
Nothing like European morals in America shining
Nice video
You are life saver
Very good one
Nice information
Can you make a video on AC Staybrite 8 (soft solder) vs using 'regular' silver brazing in HVAC applications?
Can we use a propane torch instead of Oxy-Acety?
Thank you I love your videos always to the point and informative! :)
I am seeing your refrigerant videos are really great I learn many thing. Salute from The Island of Puerto Rico . Are you a technician
I checked the max amps and amp draw right at the main panel for the double pole circuit breaker that supplies the AC. . Each leg had a max draw of -80 amps (81 on one and 77 on the other) on start up and ran at 17.5 amps steady state. Used a Fluke 87V in high res mode. The RLA is 23.7 amps and the LRA is 129.0 amp per the specs on the unit. It’s a 4 ton (48,200 BTU) unit. I do have a 5-2-1 kit on it as well. I’ve never tried it but I don’t think my 7500 W peak generator will start this unit.
PS those coils are very dirty! Thanks for posting
My 4 ton RLA 22, but runs hot 32 amps. It may be suction line is too small 3/4" when is should be 7/8". I'm trying to learn what is needed to start compressor using solar battery backup to help offset cost of DIY solar. I've not yet tested LRA that is listed at 117 amps that I'll need to get as low as possible.
Love ur vids bro. So when checking for amps you only check the black wire
Wow! Awesome info. Can I install this on my Senville LETO 24k BTU...? Thanks
great video...
I have got two questions on LRA
1 what do you mean when you say that the compressor is locked?
2 how do I know that my compressor is locked is it when it draws amps more than the lra or less than the lra?
Fantastic videos Jay!! Your channel videos have really motivated me to learn more about my home HVAC system and...make HVAC great again!
**Would this LRA compressor struggle also apply to heat pumps (running in heating mode) in cold weather?** Yesterday it was just above 0º C / 32ºF freezing (Toronto, Ontario) and the compressor and fan unit both seemed to be struggling to start...but eventually did after about 5 seconds of "whining". It happened only once and ran fine later. The outside unit is going on 7 years, so it is not too old. I will have to diagnose the LRA and the start capacitor properly after going over your videos again.
Btw, any plans to make videos on heat pumps? :-) Not sure how common they are in Minnesota / Hawaii, but it would be terrific to hear your thoughts on the topic of heat pumps in general.
God bless you and your family.
Yes it doesn’t matter the season. Remember the start assist ckt does not stay in circuit. Back EMF takes it out once unit starts up. You may have been listening to ur heat pump coming out of defrost mode.
Hey jay would it be more affected if the condenser coil is cleaned ?
Hello buddy ✌️😊👍😁🐕🐕 good to hear from you again my friend I hope all is well with you all my friends I have been looking for starfruit but I haven't been able to find any so far..
Hey David! Hope all is well with you and the dogs over there too! Star fruit is good but not amazingly good so to be honest you are not missing out too much. I even prefer a banana over starfruit
I installed an EasyStar from Micro-Air and allowed my Trane XL14i 3Ton 83LRA rating to drop so low I could run my central air on a 9k portable generator! I live in Fl and I wanted to have AC after any hurricane.
Hey Jay, this is Jay too. I have some issues with my compressor the start-up Amps is around 94 but the LRA is 75 amp in the label. I checked your other video first (How to Install a Hard Start Kit in Your Air Conditioner). But during the video, you said 'don't put in a hard start kit if you already have a start capacitor in your unit'. But in his video, you seem to have the start capacitor but do you still recommend the Hart Start Kit? Would you mind explaining a bit to me and I appreciate it.
Ha: the anti climax at 7:18 gotta love it when that happens! 😁.
Can we presume gas pressures have equalised by the 2nd test? Repeat the test too quickly : residual back pressure may affect LRA
Haha yeah, I was briefly surprised before realizing what's up.
And yes! I always give it time to equalize when powering on the condenser multiple times
HVAC parts guy told me today when I was trying to buy a Hard start kit that if the compressor is not even trying to start that it would be a complete waste of money.
Could replacing a furnace without replacing AC at the same time be a problem? We were told that AC temperature won't get as cold. But why?
I’ve got a 10 year old Rheem heat pump that as soon as it gets the call for heat or cool, it pops one of the two fuses in the disconnect or trips the breaker. The outdoor fan gets barely enough power to turn the blades a 1/4 turn. I replaced the contractor and same problems. I take the outdoor fan motor out of the loop completely and same problem. Ohm out compressor at its plug and it’s fine (OL).
I believe you'll get less drop on a scroll compressor than a reciprocating compressor however 3 Amps drop definitively helps.
Hey Jay when would you recommend installing this kit ? When the unit is new or after a few years ? Thanks for the video.
If installing when the condenser is new, it will likely add to the life of the compressor as it starts with less stress due to the assist in initial current draw. On older systems, it helps as well. After installing, you'll definitely notice the lag time from when the compressor begins to engage and full run diminish.
Manufacturers used to preinstall these kits on all new units to extend the life of the compressor. Most don't anymore - to save $20 in manufacturing cost!? Some manufacturers like Trane actually sell their own brand of hard start kits.
Talking about Inrush, I have tested Fieldpeace, Fluke, UEI, Klein, with the Min Max and I have seen little to no difference with a meter that actually has an Inrush setting. Im kinda wondering if its just a selling point.
I wanna do residential service but I’m kinda nervous tho. I heard you gotta be by yourself when you get calls 😐😯. You do service? Or is it called service tech?
Hey Jay is this the same device calld a hard start kit?? I remmber it go in series whit the run cap .. by the way great video every time u make a video I allways take note you the man .. and congrats on movie to Hawaii
Thanks Juan! Yes, the 521 Compressor is a hard start kit. There are a few different styles but they are all basically a start capacitor and some kind of relay that takes the start capacitor out of the circuit after the compressor is up to full speed at start-up. After answering this comment, I will put some Amazon links to different hard start kits in the description for anyone interested.
You have any video on size of compressor for fridge and freeze small refrigerator
Hi Jay
Thanks for all great videos!
Question: for 7.5 ton RUUD unit 3 phase compressor
Is there such a kit?
Thanks
Robert
There is no need for a hard start kit on a 3 phase unit as the phase shift that the hard start kit provides is already "built-in-to" 3 phase.
This AC Comp. Saver Kit. Is it one size fits all?
Subscribed!!!!
I appreciate that! You even left a comment too, now that's going above and beyond! ;)
Aloha Jay and family ... Great vid and like you , I thought the amp drop would be much more ... Could it be that this brand would differ from another brand ... Hmmmm ...
Aloha Eddy! Mahalo! I am suspecting that the brand does have something to do with it as well... Since I have no proof I decided not to mention it though heh
Fun Fact: The "IN RUSH" current being so high is due to the necessity to generate the electro-magnetic field surronding the coils. An electro-magnetic field is stored energy, and the collapse or creation of an EM field is done so (likely) at the speed of light (this has never been measured to my knowledge). That In Rush of current is the field being established. This is why draining resistor banks or field breakers are necessary when cutting large motors off, the field collapses back down (stored energy) and actually uses whats called a hysteresis cycle to convert magnetism into dielectricity. Magnetism in an electric circuit is always linked to current/amperage while dielectricty is linked to the volatge. And the system is constantly fluctuating (in AC power) between the two at 60hz. This is all according to C.P. Stiemetz, the guy who reversed engineered Teslas AC motor, and was the founder and director of General Electrics R&D division until his death. Anyone interested should get his book "Elementary Lectures on Electric Discharges, Waves and Impulses and other Transients."
Wow, so much to learn.
This is the video I needed a few weeks ago. I wish you could combine this video with the other hard start kit video you made and using an AC with a better label would have helped for clarity! The videos are great! I left a comment on the other one! I got the UEi DL389B but it doesn't have the LRA feature, so I bought the DL 489 instead. What do you think of that meter over the one you have for this purpose? What is a good percent decrease to have usually? Is it okay to click on the contactor and compressor for such a short time like that? Will that cause any damage to the unit as AC usually don't want you to restart so soon after shutting down? Also, why not use a megaohms meter and do a video on one of those? I was considering getting one of those for $100 to see how much life left I have on my 17-year-old AC compressor.
The DL489 is a great meter too and like you said, it can measure inrush current so that's nice. I think both meters are good but I prefer 379 or 389. The percent it decreases varies from unit to unit so there is no set average number. My video has a lot of edit cuts so I should have mentioned this but every time I turn on the condenser twice in a row, I always give it a few minutes to equalize pressures before I power it on. I don't have a megaohms meter but if I get one, I will see what I can do for a video. Thank you!
@@WordofAdviceTV Outstanding!
If the compressor is already locked, can I use the compressor saver to get it to work?
Will the compressor wire always be on the top of the relay ??
What to do when your compressor get locked sir ? Do you have any video for it .
so if it is starting at 56 Amps , wouldnt it immediately trip the breaker before locking up? unless its a 60 amp breaker?
Can we measure lra correctly when Contactor pulls in when tstat sends signal to Contactor instead of pushing Contactor with a screwdriver?
How do I tell if my furnace and hot water tank are natural draft or fan-assisted? I think they are both natural draft but want to confirm. The furnace is category 1 (80%) - 1990 Olsen furnace and hot water is John wood 2012. Thanks in advance you are very helpful!
For your furnace just remove the access door and then trace your flue pipe back to the furnace. If it’s induced draft (fan assisted) you will see the inducer fan and motor. Basically follow the same method for your water heater.
hi gOod day, may I know why my aircon compressor sweaty?
Jay my man! Do you have a vid on how to install a fuse or breaker inline with hvac transformer to prevent burnouts due to thermostat wire shorts?? Thx n advance brotha!
Hey Justin! I do not have a video like that unfortunately.. But in this video right here, I do show an example of how I spliced one into my furnace: ruclips.net/video/52iq9rYI0mI/видео.html
Start watching at about 5:30
@@WordofAdviceTV thank you sir!
PTAC compressor is humming then clicks off. LRA is 33 but only drawing 23amps on common with hard start kit. New capacitor installed. Changed the board as well. What else could this be? Thx
Whats up brother ive always wondered why arent hard starts included in unit from manufacturer or recommended to add after if it seems like it would help with the wear and tear during start up. Any ideas why?
It’s all about cost.
@@vladekvladinov5753 Yes, because they're on higher-end units from the factory, but you don't need these in all climates and since they sell these units all over it doesn't make sense, but only in the warmer climates.
Manufacturers used to preinstall these kits on all new units to extend the life of the compressor. Most don't anymore - to save $20 in manufacturing cost!? Some manufacturers like Trane actually sell their own brand of hard start kits.
I have the same question as Jeff.
I took out the one that I had put in the old unit, so should I install it in the new unit?
There is less strain on the compressor when it starts if there is a hard start kit installed. So I would say why not put in? :)
If a compressor is locked up can you get to unlock or is it just shot
Rated load amps or running load amps?
FYI "Compressor Saver" or all capacitors in general should be installed upright, they'll last longer. Per my Microbiologist turned HVAC single man contractor professor & capacitor makers he's talked to.
I have heard that before too, thank you for pointing it out!
Thanks for this because 2 other tutorials I saw have them mounted sideways. I put mine in sideways yesterday and am going out to fix it now. The hard start kit relay also needs to be oriented correctly too which I luckily knew beforehand.
So. Why such a small change? How does this thing work? Is it a staged (timed) capacitor engagement?
I am not entirely sure why the small change. It varies from unit to unit, how much the start up amps go down by.
The start capacitor stays in the circuit for only a second or less before getting taken out by the potential relay. It's only there to assist the compressor at start-up.
Unrelated to this thread. I have an older trane furnace. The igniter lights, flames start and shut off almost as fast. What could cause this
Check flame sensor
Just need a meter designed to capture inrush, like Testo 770-3 or a higher end Fluke or Ampro...
If the compressor were to lock up well that damage the Freon to where you could reuse it?
Compressor lock-up alone will not damage the refrigerant, but if the winding wire are burnt than that "burnt" could .
That made a huge difference o amps lol
👍
when i set 2amp om my metertagg, its shows 0,5 amps on black. (ground)
When i check fase L1 L2,L3 3,5 amp each. why?
When I checked for LRA, the meter is reading OL. What does an open line mean for a compressor?
It means the reading was out of range.
How can you tell if someone hotwired their compressor to yours
Hi Sir, I have replaced a breakage compressor of Electrolux by a new GMC one same 2.25 hp. But the unit stops after 5 minutes n the compressor gets so hot. Temperature reduces from 30 to only 27. RLA is not the same, is this the reason? n how to solve the problem
I’m having similar issue
I was under the impression that a locked rotor is a compressor that has internal damage and needs to be replaced?
A compressor that does not have enough amps to spin it up is not locked same as if you lost half the leg in or a bad capacitor.
Correct me if i'm wrong.
A seized up compressor does not always indicate that there is internal damage although it is likely to be the case. It's possible that the unit had a weak run capacitor for a long time which eventually led it to lock-up. I have come across many locked up compressors that I was able to kickstart using a hard start kit. The dual run capacitor is good, power is good, compressor checks out good, yet it fails to start. Put in a hard start, and there's a good chance it will start right up. I have also had times where the unit would only turn on a couple times before it would fail to start again even with a hard start. If it gets to that point, then it's truly game over for that compressor.
Hi very great video 👏
I have question,I checked the ac of the client ,the compressor did not run ,
I put hard starter kit ,the compressor runs but the run wire is 40 ramps and breaker trips.
What's the reason ?
My old contractor says 150 LRA. I was looking at a new one it says 180 LRA. Can I use the the 180 LRA?
Yes, that should be fine.
@@WordofAdviceTV Thank You!
7:20 huge difference zero amps:)
I dont get it, i have 0,5 amps on common (ground) and 3,45 on T1T2T3 each 3phase. copeland, how can i have only 0,5 amps on common ? Full load should be 5,2 when i read on the kompressor.
I thought the LRA was the size of the compressor how do you know the size of compressor small one for refrigerator thanks but you don't respond to the question
Another reason it hums, it's because it doesn't know the words! Haha I know you like a good corny joke!
letslockit, 😂
Lol, nice one :)
can you come fix my hvacs? i have 10 that can use your help?