Different Kinds of Players | Running the Game
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- Опубликовано: 24 ноя 2024
- Episode 11: This is largely the same list you find in the front of the DMG, but properly sourced and with my own commentary and additions.
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Ken Hite's game based on the same rules: Night's Black Agents!
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Ken & Robin's Podcast!
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Some classic and new "Funhouse Dungeons"
White Plume Mountain, contained in the Dungeons of Dread PDF
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Castle Greyhawk, hated by fans of Gary Gygax's unpublished masterpiece, I've played through this and it was hysterical!
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#RunningTheGame #MattColville #MCDM
"I'm a mortal"
Sounds like something an immortal would say. >.>
I am mortal
I'm mortal
immortal
*poof*
He says that, but I remember immortal vampire matt colville fighting vampire gary gygax to save critical role.
But what rank of immortal and what sphere of power?
@@lord6617 you could tell not all of them were familiar with that rule system and was kind of dragging and that scene made the entire first session worth it.
Only the true Messiah denies his divinity!
"Most bands aren't like Rush, where they're all friends for 40 years. Most bands are like the Police: they all hated each other and we're lucky we got one good album from them."
My friend uses this ALL the time when explaining different D&D campaigns. Now I know where he got it from...
Matt absolutely love some things you said in this show, just fascinating that you can bring Thomas Aquinas into a discussion about players.
I think the success of the group is partially determined by group dynamics, which is something every group can work on. If you want your group to be Rush, start communicating! The risk of hating eachother decreases if you understand eachother.
As a starting out DM who has attempted to expose D&D to 9 year olds I have two words that make it all fun: Goblin Campaign.
You want to see some hillarious stuff? Get a couple 9 year olds together and make them play as goblins. No goat will be spared.
Yes
That is genius! I love you!
wayward Aw thanks man, I appreciate the sentiment. :D
most notably the "We Be Goblins" adventure for Pathfinder
I was already considering doing this with a bunch of 30 year old and expecting similar results...
I like how matt gives advice on how to make the types of players have fun, instead of advice on how to make them conform
"They play THE same character, often with the same name"
_conspicuously squints over towards Joe Manganiello_
I resemble that statement! :)
There is one player in my games who always brings this really deep, usually dark backstory with, "guys, I'm going to be a really serious character this time." Proceeds to play the same lovable goon he always does because he just is that person and it's great. We tease him about it.
@@timothyheimbach3260 I'm just like that lmao
Me about my character: he really doesn't care about anyone but himself
Me, roleplaying: you guys can go sleep, I will be here awake making sure that nothing bad happens, ok?
One of my very first players when I was just starting was like this. I tried to fix him, and he resented me for it, as well he might. That was a long time ago; I like to think I've matured and could deal with it much better now.
There is a difference between importing your actual character and progressing their story and what Matt was talking about.
The problem is when a player is just creating clones of the same character no matter what game or campaign they are playing.
"Sometimes it doesn't work out - and that's OK. Not every band is Rush."
This is so incredibly well stated. Thanks, Matthew.
What is Rush?
Nick Mozzicato A very good prog-rock band. They stayed together and made great music for about 40 years.
A prog rock band. They stayed together and made music for 40 years.
@@cholulahotsauce6166 They made inspiring music for 40 years. There will never be another band like Rush.
Some bands, sadly, are like the Mötley Crüe
1. the power gamer/min-maxer 4:43
2. the butt-kicker/murder-hobo 6:07
3. the tactician 7:11
4. the specialist 9:51
5. the actor 11:09
5.5. the wang-rod 12:08
6. the storyteller 13:54
7. the casual gamer 15:13
8. the mad scientist 15:45
The best advise: 17:28
josemolivera 5.5 Wang Rod
send this man to the top
Er... spelling nazi... nerves...tingling....
*advice. Couldn't hold it in :-/
I appreciate wang rod instead of dickwad. Well done, Matt.
The Tactician = Mr. Pink
Quite honestly, the description of 'the audience' actually blew my mind. I, somehow, never considere in my ADHD extroverted mind that somebody may just WANT to sit quietly and watch the world around them develop. That is something important to learn, and I have already begun adjesting how I DM in my head. Thank you.
Indeed, some people are perfectly okay having their characters be the secondary characters in someone else's story, so long as it's an interesting and engaging story. Some people have no problem being the Watson so someone else's Sherlock Holmes. And that's fine, so long as they have fun.
I myself have played the Watson on many occasions, despite preferring the tactician position. It can be more fun that you may realize to play the silent backseat driver by focusing your strength into exposing and enabling the path you wish the party to take. These players may be secretly plotting in the shadows and gently guiding the main players in the most subtle ways, and it is very pleasing to them. Choosing who to heal, who to buff, who gets to succeed on a save, which enemy to immobilize, and even which information to remind the party of... there are many more types of players than may be recognized on this list, they just aren't obvious because they are so secretive.
This list makes a lot of sense to me, I joined a group at the same time as a guy who was obviously part of the “audience” archetype. And neither of us were really good or experienced with dnd but I just turned to him and said “want to do a dynamic duo? You build your character first and then we’ll work on mine” do we ended up with the strong but silent orc barbarian fighter and the motor mouth human bard. I talk and he plays, in combat he optimises our turns so we actually have good teamwork.
In a new group now and I still miss that partnership that I started the game with.
As an uber introvert, yeah it can be totally fun just to watch the world around happen and other players interact with each other.
They left out mine: The joker they think the game is a joke and they're the punch line. They get into character and have elaborate back stories but not dramatic it's comedic like the charlatan wearing a fake mustache. They don't play optimally or sometime even logically they just act like they're in an episode of spongebob or a side character in Borderlands. They're plans usually involve some sort of trick that no one with a brain would fall for if the guards ask what they're doing they'll awnser with something along the lines of "Don't worry Officer there is definitely no Tax Fraud in progress and sense nothing remotely suspicious is going on you should leave."
I used to DM a player that was a "butt kicker", but I refered to his boredom while not killing stuff as 'being in the elevator'. He would stare at the ceiling or just look around like he was in an elevator that went 'ding' when the fights started. His character was a dwarf with a big axe that usually just said different variations of 'kill stuff'.
Here's the important takeaway: "If they're having fun, you did good."
This is important. Yes, you did well, but this wasn't a mistake in grammar.
You did *good*
You brought something *good* into this world by delighting your players.
"In the doobleydoo" makes me smile every time I hear it.
DFTBA
@@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-YourselfI think it was actually originally weezy waiter.
One of my fellow players is a Tactician. He's not bad at all, he enjoys the game from a militaristic level. He does see us as his units, with him as commander. But he works with us. He said recently "Chess isn't chess when all the prices move like queens. The "personality" of the pieces is part of the game, and part of the fun.
"this is cool"
*This is good, this means that they're having fun*
I knew I'd made it as a DM when my deadpan coworker told me something I came up with on the fly was "badass"
I like Treantmonk's term for power games: "Optimancers"
I like it too. It seems to me to be the least pejorative.
It's completely subjective nomenclature, but for me optimizers and power gamers are two different things. Optimizers are people who try to build the most effective characters they can, but are otherwise just there to have a good time, so long as they aren't outshining the party to the point where the other players feel irrelevant I don't have a problem with them, and if they are then I can just ask them to dial it back a notch or give the other party members a slight boost (treantmonk, the dungeon dudes, and many other DnD RUclipsrs fall into this category, I would absolutely love to have any of them at my table, and the dungeon dudes are what got me into DMing in the first place)... Power gamers on the other hand go out of the way to try to break the game, whether it be from arguing and twisting the rules or just trying to squeeze out every little advantage from every possible thing (including but certainly not limited to character builds), they will convince the party to give them their magic items, and you can expect an hour long conversation (if you're lucky) every time that you introduce an NPC or plot point about how they want to manipulate it or them. To the point where you begin to overthink every little thing you put in the game and can't just have a friendly dryad NPC meet them in the forest. Those types I have a big problem with.
That's honestly my favorite part of being an "audience"member . I literally love watching it in my head and imagining all the details and get lost in the story I love it
But don't you want to participate and lead some things?
I used to love sitting in on games that I wasn't a player in. I honestly just enjoyed watching them game even if they were already full or I didn't have time to be fully invested.
I dunno how to feel about that because I'm wondering why even play the game rather than, say, watch a twitch stream?
@@YukianesaDrivebecause you can interact with the people without becoming the focus
@@elgatochurroI'd rather enjoy what exists
Players and Audience Members.
You sir, are literally the best. You just turned what had been a terrible game tonight, into something completely different. That mere piece of advice was priceless. And for that, I salute you.
I think an episode on types of DMs would be interesting to hear about too.
+Buffaloguy1991 I think that video will be the Railroad vs the Sandbox video. We'll see.
Matthew Colville cool can't wait! Also preemptive congratulations on 5000 since it looks, like you'll reach it today or tomorrow.
Tactician: "your fun is wrong"
Storyteller: "But we have to lose first or we can't complete the hero's journey?! (BTW shouldn't we have an 'Old Man' NPC in this scene)."
Me IRL
So true... My BIL seems like a tactician to me. I think I may be mostly an actor, the funnest party for me is character building and seeing how the character interacts in the DM's world
Your sentence is sub optimal
Oof. I've actually had a campaign end due to a tactician player saying this of other party members and making a huge deal out of it. I haven't played D&D with that player since, although we still are close friends and play plenty of other games together. Like Matt said, not every band is Rush, I guess.
I've actually killed a fellow PC who was acting completely in character. Because it was completely in character for my character to use lethal force to save an innocent civilian from a psychopathic killer.
watching this in 2019 so happy you blew up you deserve it great vid
+++
Perhaps one of his most important lessons.
@To Release is To Resolve name checks out
You should check out 2020
2022 here and I'm glad to have watched. Some guy on reddit linked it.
Damn, this guy is good. Best cheerleader I could have hoped for in returning to the table after 20 years away.
I love how much he gets into it 11:25-11:27 is on point! XD
I'm definitely an actor/storyteller. I personally hate when my other party members don't attempt to roleplay or when the DM just jams enemies in a room with no motivation and tells players to fight them, because it gives my character little to work with.
WhAt'S THe DeaL WiTh AlL oF THese MiNDflAyeRs?
You could put some rank in intimidate and demoralize your enemies. Use Illusions and other flavor stuff for fights so you don't get bored in fights.
Me too. And, oh my God, did I ever get into fights with the type 1 min/max powergamer for a while because he was all about rushing to the next fight and stealing the show. Alas, I finally finally finally... learned to sit back and let him do his thing. He would get us all (or in many cases, just himself) into trouble and, without tooting my horn too much, I would very often be the one to get us out of that very trouble. So maybe I should have been thankful for him instead of fighting him all the time. He moved the adventure forward. And whenever it seemed like the space was tight and someone might die... I would often be the one to get us out of that tight squeeze. Yep, I really should have been thankful for him and just let him be the badass instead of trying to smack him down all the time. D&D regrets. Time for the next adventure. I have learned my lesson.
Same
If critical role has taught us anything, it’s that role play doesn’t have to end when combat begins.
I was in a group of mostly actors or actor combos, and there was this girl who would show up from time to time and she was just an audience member. I felt bad for her because they considered her style as a problem and consistently tried to draw her out and would even start arguments with her and how she played.
As an actor, it was fun being in a group of other actors. But their need to get others to play exactly the way they did drove me away. They would really benefit from watching this video.
Yeah this video REALLY puts it in perspective, sometimes things won't go your way and that is okay!
I sort of disagree, I honestly think the game is going to be more fun when you have similar players together. It's a roleplaying game in the end, not a combat simulator, not really a spectator game either. I get you wanna play with your friends which is fine but you're still playing a roleplaying game. Many people aren't into that and this video is evident of the different player types, that's okay I'm not into soccer so I'm not going to play it. There seems to be this need in many DnD communities to include everybody, mostly because they're irl friends but that simply doesn't work well.
You would think "actors" would be more welcoming towards an "audience member" isn't that what most of the entertainment industry is based off.
Great video. You have a golden voice by the way!
Voice is great. I wonder if he does any narration (outside of D&D).
@@bridgesgijsbers6349 I would pay matt a golden treasure if he were to read his own books
yes so ture
He uses audio processing to enhance the sound of his voice, it doesn't sound like this IRL. He demonstrated in one of his videos.
@@Sephysogaku he did but it didn't sound that much different. At least not to me anyway.
"Not every band is Rush" Damn good quote
"wow, we're getting close to 5000 subs!"
now has 132k
And 1 year later.. 313k.
And 4 years later...339k
And (probably not too long after Trish07 replied)... 340k
346k so far
49k away from 1m
(951k)
I am pretty sure you just made me a better human being in less than 20 minutes. (^_-) Wow...... just, thank you, THANK YOU! I laughed and learned something. You are a gift.
I might add an extra one (3 years late), the engineer. This is the kind of player who prioritizes coming up with clever, unique, and perhaps unexpected solutions to problems above anything else; the kind of person that will stick an anti-magic ring at the end of a pistol and fill it with magically-reduced cannonballs. They're kind of like a mixture between a tactician and a storyteller, but rather than having a focus on solving problems in the most efficient way possible within the rules, it's more about solving problems in a way that takes advantage of a loophole, even if the "normal" way is technically better. Fluffernutter * 10
I'm like this, albeit that I'm a combination between power gamer and storyteller (and a hint of mad scientist). I love to find a small loophole for clever solutions, especially with magic. Because of this I sometimed forget that there a easier solutions.
Somewhat like me. Im a cross between min max - with crazy solutions - but also like to act my char. which lucky for me is an artificer its litrally my job to be inventive lol
That’s kind of like the ‘Thor’ one he mentioned earlier and even mentioned it as ‘the engineer’ that looks to solve game mechanics (playing with the games’ guts) but I agree it is very nuanced in comparison. IRL engineers, chemists, and soldiers are the ones I think who typically do this (and those with such an inclination).
Antimatter arrows (BoH and Portable hole engineered to an arrow either blackholing everything in radius or shunting it to the Astral Plane), Portable Holes strapped to tower shields, Mold Earth+Shape Water to make hydroelectric power, etc. this bunch are a blast to play but can break the game (and sometimes that is the point lol - like hackers, it’s not about ruining others’ fun, it’s seeing what you can do with the tools and limits given).
I'm terribly sorry to break your example of a clever solution, but... have you heard of momentum? :P
If I was the DM (same probably goes for most real-life engineers), that cannonball wouldn't fly very far, only carrying the momentum of a small bullet...
Although I imagine a lot of DMs would totally let that work via the rule of cool, which is also fine.
I’m guilty of being a “Mad Scientist” although I feel I also fit “The Actor” description. Recently my accomplice and I came to the realization that even though everyone was mostly having fun the DM was changing a lot of the adventure he was running to give us more opportunity to try and break stuff. To a degree this was great but it would lead to the players getting upset at the DM instead of us so we decided to reel it back. I think the moral of the story is: when trying to accommodate a player make sure you aren’t stepping on the other players fun.
Regarding the part about being a mad scientist but also an actor. Like Matthew said, not everyone fits a single archetype, hell most people object being so pigeonholed and with reason. Some people might even change roles depending on the campaign or the character. So it's not a bad thing that you feel resonance with two (or more) archetypes. Hell, i might swing between being a power gamer (i like to optimize my characters, not necessarily to a full min-max munchkin degree, but to be useful in several situations, in and out of combat) and storyteller and a casual. Maybe depending on the campaign, situation and character i might be something else as well.
"As teenagers" brings back memories. One of my first experiences 20 years ago with 3rd edition was a DM giving us a quest to kill Satan to save the world. And his only weak point was his nutsack. Which also happened to be the size of a dwarf.
"9 year olds don't want to *talk* to everyone they want to *kill* everyone!"
I died! But yeah, great and fun advice :)
Re: the Tacticians: "You can certainly try that."
Also, I'm totally an "Actor" type. (Complete with downside, as my Cypher System DM can attest) With a dash or two of Storyteller.
Im definitely an actor. My current character (for a campaign that's been running for 2 ½ years ) is a painfully lawful good and naive Bard. Sometimes the other players/PCs get mad at my choices and build (for example, a lack of Vicious Mockery) but I want her to play as genuinely as possible and I think she's had awesome character growth that reflects whenever we level up :)
Yeah I'm an actor too 😅
My current character is a pacifist who has DEFINITELY not played each combat as tactically as possible- namely, he won't kill anyone, and prioritizes trying to talk people out of combat whenever possible.
2:07
Not gonna lie, I just started my first campaign and I'm one of these players. I didn't realize that until now and I was constantly trying to push myself to engage more even though it was stressing me out. While I love to build characters, and I love to push the story, I'm very happy to enjoy the story and put in my own ideas once in a while.
So thank you, you quelled my fears.
Wow, way to bring Thomas Aquinas in. Not being sarcastic. Thanks a lot this was really helpful.
random question 100 years later : do you have the actual quote please?
@@sylgo I assume it's the part in the Suma Theologica where Aquinas discusses the morality of the artist. Part of his anti-consequentialist argument.
Thanks for talking about audience members vs players. I needed to hear that I think. >.>
13 years of age and about to run my first game, also the first game i've ever played. The good thing is im playing with two friends that know nothing about d&d so they won't know when destroy the rules i skimmed through wish me luck.
Good luck! When I started at 16 all my friends had already been playing for years!
Sloth Dude175 I'm 20 and in a similar situation and it went great. I'm sure you did fine!
morphias1008 They loved it, apparently im a great writer, threw 90% of it together the night before XD
Sloth Dude175 Hello. Are you my clone?
Nikolay Ionidis Yup hello brother
Hey Matt, just gotta say your series is just as important for players as for GMs. i think critical roll has skewed the field so more players are becoming actors or storytellers. this is not a bad thing but i have noticed our group (me included) have turned up the ROLEplaying elements of the game.
keep up the good work :)
"Not every band is Rush." TRUTH
My brother fits in a weird type, loves fights and weapons, but loves dialogue and stays in character, curious of political intrigue and will not do something out of character. Has character traits that he likes to keep to himself with the other characters aren’t around, even started a business in the game. This dude 👍🏻
"Most bands are like The Police; they hate each other"
Hahahah, so true.
So true about player/audience member. All participants can’t be the main character of every session, sometimes it’s enough to just be part of the adventure and helping the party
I say, don't get a cool intro with music and all that stuff. I understand the allure of having it, but it's unnecessary. And more importantly its another thing that viewers have to sit through before getting to the content. It's like a loading screen. I watch a lot of youtube and if I added up all the unnecessary intros I've seen i'm sure it would be a several hours worth. You already have a style of video, and a cool background. Keep it simple and to the point. It works for you since you talk fast. A better camera and microphone never hurts. Though your current setup is completely adequate from my perspective.
Loved the advice. I think the big takeaways are "Communicate with your players about what you want and what they want", "Make having fun your goal, and don't get tied down to certain events or NPCs " and always remember "not every group of people can be a good party, and it's not always your fault."
+unchartedexe Alternatively, an intro can have a pavlovian effect. There are some that when I hear that music, it immediately puts me in a good mood and excites me to see the show. I think it's important to keep it short though. Five seconds or so. A jingle and title screen quickly before starting the show seems appropriate to me.
Tactician and a storyteller, classic exchange.
+theslyder I have seen 30 second intros...
tangopup10 I’m sure there is but I don’t think that’s the point they were trying to prove. They said putting a intro on here but keeping it about 5 sec would be appropriate (I agree tho a 30 sec intro is a bit much).
I think intros are like the rule about websites where if everything doesn't load with a few seconds I'm bored and will click off it.
I actually wanted to say that, as a Level 1 DM (just started my campaign on 4/21/2019!), I actually really love your videos. They have helped me a lot so far, and I'm still watching them. I did want to say that... I put a tribute to you in our game. XD In our 2nd encounter, the players find this tomb with a statue in it (based loosely on your tomb with the goblins and knights!) and the statue is of Captain William Colville, the Hero of Acxeron! Of course, they have no idea the significance of the knight's surname, but still! It was my way of saying Thanks for the videos. I subbed the channel, and it's wonderful.
Hows it going lol
@@maxklein8286everyone quit
My mom: YOU FORGOT TO FINISH YOUR ROOM LAST NIGHT!
Me: “I am mortal”
Lmao
Not only your voice is so pleasant to hear but your script is very well writen... realky you deserve so much more views !
"Sometimes the book you want to write is not the book they want to read" damn that's good and very true !
Great episode! Glad that you're emphasizing that there's no "wrong" way to play tabletop RPGs, as long as everybody's having fun, and your fun isn't inhibiting somebody else's fun (within reason).
+sanityismadness This. Min/Maxers have been getting a bad reputation recently, which is bad, no player should feel like their way to have fun is wrong, so what if I like to optimize my character milimetrically and I pick race/class/feat combos purely mathematicaly? This doesn't automatically mean I will be less invested in his/her backstory, and engaging in the world.
The kind of player that is bad is the disruptive one, and rarely it boils down to his/her playstyle, mostly it is about their general conduct as a person.
+Matthew Colville I watched this video shortly after having a catastrophic session where I was ready to hang up my DMing guns for good. This video gave me hope and got me back on the horse. Several months later the campaign is alive and well and I am a better DM for it. Thank you sir. If you are a river to your people then I name you Euphrates.
Best words of advice: "Not Every Band Can Be Rush"
“Number 3. The tactician: related to the murder-hobo and Thor…”
Quite the family tree.
No, You don't
@@SamwiseGG D:
@@TeshnosFire your name.
(Just explaining the joke... Sorry.)
I will occasionally find my self rewatching this series, especially when I haven't run D&D in a while and am about to get behind the screen again
Thanks for this video. It made me totally re-think my DM style. My group would probably tell I'm a good enough DM. But I realized I had an idea in my head of how players "should" be playing. I realize now that whatever my idea was of the "best" way was wrong, and the best way is whatever way makes them have the most fun. I believe everyone is a mix of different types, but I also believes some are more one than another. For example I have a couple "audience players" who always get nervous when I put them on the spot for role playing purposes. This isn't too terrorize them, but to encourage them to not be left out and participate in what the party does in the grand scheme. But really if they aren't comfortable with that, they don't all need to that. I realized I can just find out what they like and give them opportunities in the game to do what they like, rather than force all the players to do everything because that's what a player should do. So this was very helpful.
I feel like this is actually a very helpful video for players to watch as well. You brought it up with Tacticians, but just about any kind of player can feel like their way of playing is “right” and that something is wrong if others aren’t engaging with the game like they are. Actors and Storytellers can get frustrated if you aren’t role playing, Powergamers can feel like they’re hogging the spotlight or that you’re lagging behind them. Casual gamers can be treated like they aren’t taking things seriously enough, or a group of them can treat any of the others like they’re taking the game way too seriously. Basically, I think a lot of players, myself included, can benefit from hearing, “here’s how a lot of different people *enjoy* dnd, and they are not wrong to enjoy it that way.”
Oh my god that first self-criticism you mentioned, “If only I were a good enough DM” killed my first two DMing campaigns. I got so self-critical and anxious about it (big surprised, diagnosed with GAD) that I eventually had to stop the campaigns. That self-criticism you mentioned spoke to me so much.
Love hearing you say you had 5000 subs - flash forward to today - 245,000 - changed the game much? Rock on.
Matt, you're amazing. Seriously, the content, the editing, the energy...all of it is just great. Thanks so much for doing this.
I’m tempted to make a monk and give him a staff known as “the rod of wang”.
It’ll be difficult to continue playing after the endless tirade of jokes.
I sincerely hope you did end up doing this, and have some wonderful stories to share :D
As a new DM, thank you for this! I have some serious "audience members" in my game. Thankfully I also have a couple "players" to help move the story along
I have been a supporter since the early days and I still direct first time dms to this series and I rewatch them on occasions
my fav quote from this ep is "not every band is rush"
I'm a mix between actor, storyteller and min maxer. The min maxing, generally isn't about being super OP but as efficient as I can make my character based on what all the other party members are doing, if I see my party needs a particular thing I think they're missing I try and include that to the best of my ability as I want to make things easier for us.
I only recently began to DND-ing as my boyfriend started running campaigns. Outside of campaigns him and I write stories together so being part of his campaigns are immensely fun for me as I love the way his mind works and the stories he creates, I've never once viewed my DM as a problem to overcome though, more someone fun and interesting to bounce off of.
A teamplayer basically (which is excellent, need more of those). That’s a healthy balance, games I’ve been in can be so actor/storyteller heavy that when it comes time to throw down it devolves into individuals running around in chaos instead of an at least competent adventuring party. Characters can be quirky, RP-heavy, and flavorful without being an unnecessary detriment to the party when it gets dangerous.
I'm that same type of min maxer. I found my favourite class that way too!
I accidentally clicked on one of your videos yesterday or RUclips auto played one of your videos. I got about half way through before I had to shut it off bc of life. Today I went back through trying to find the video and found this one. Just subscribed. This is amazing and I feel worthwhile info for me, someone who is thinking of taking up the gm chair.
You know you find the right hobby when your mentor sais "you will spend the rest of your life getting better at it" and your invulentary automatic response is to smile. I didn't even know I was capable of loving a hobby this much
Came by here to refresh the lessons of a few years back. "On our way to 4 thousand" subscribers got me, as I look at "306K" in the corner.. Like when you're 18th level reminiscing back on the time you were 10XP away from the verge of 3rd.
"Sci-fi anime character in medieval fantasy"
That video gave me a whole new outlook on players and d&d in general. Great Work!
2:36 They're just simple men with simple goals, simple as that.
When you said "solve their solutions" you so totally said all of the things that I like doing as a DM in just three words. I like to think of myself as the kind of DM that creates problems but leaves the solutions to my players and you saying it just made my day. Thanks!
I was having the issue of all players being audience members so everyone sat back to see what the others would do, ending up with nothing happening.
I used to think I was just a bad DM and every time a campaign or a session fizzled out into nothing, I blamed myself and felt bad for a while. Because of this video I thought to find new groups to divide these audience members under so both them and me could actually have fun with d&d.
It worked!
One player did leave because they wanted to specifically play with the first group and not with random strangers :/
good vid, i had a "wang rod" in my game and i just had to kick him out of the party. he is/was (this only happened last week so i don't know if he still is) a good friend but he was getting so hard to play with, hording loot, not wanting to go alone with other party members back story quest, leaving party members in pit traps full of poisonous snakes to go loot and saying "thats what my charter would do". worst of all to me he was telling players that "you can't do that, your a good aliment and i don't think thats a good thing to do". love the info keep them coming.
ps id love to see sum gameplay of you DMing maybe get Critical Role's Matthew Mercer and sum other DMs (as a DM i know that a DM wants to play as well )and run a one shot game
been watching your videos all day and i love your voice and i love your message (particularly liked your sociology video but comments were disabled (i can guess why)) , thank you for helping me (a girl, a muslim, a noob etc etc etc) feel excited about reaching out to people to play dnd
You will be a great DM and your friends will have a blast!
thank you so much
I hope that you got to try DM'ing out since commenting this. :)
& I hope you're still DM'ing and having fun 👍
Another great video. I'm probably along the lines of a Storyteller, and those are the players I enjoy the most. No surprise, then, that Mad Scientists drive me crazy. "The things I've always been denied, an early promise that somehow died..."
Rewatching this now and seeing how excited Matt is about nearing 5,000 viewers is such a nice bit of perspective
This series is fantastic. Thanks for making it. I wish I had found it earlier.
And referencing Aquinas in a ttrpg video. Top tier content :D
Brilliant insights. This is one of the best vids about DM'ing I've ever seen...although I say that a lot about your vids. I actually got misty eyed. "Not every band is Rush." Sometimes not every DnD session is a hit - that's not always the DM's fault. Thank you!
Matt's Player Types:
Players 1:40
Audience Members 2:05
Laws' Player Types (in no particular order):
Power Gamer 4:44
Butt-Kicker 6:07
Tactician 7:12
Specialist 9:52
Actor 11:09
("Wangrod") 12:07
Storyteller 13:55
Casual Gamer 15:14
Matt's Humble Addition:
Mad Scientist 15:43
Is there a tactical story teller? I love collaborating with GMs, assisting teammates and offering suggestions.
This video honestly helped me so much as a GM and I'm still comming back to it.
Just understanding that some players are happy to turn up, quietly roll dice and they're having fun and that's okay... that made my whole experience of GMing much more relaxing.
This video, especially the beginning remarks fostered and nurtured my DM ego. Thank you Matt, Every Game Master needs this info.
I am a bit of a tactician bit this largely boils down to me having to help others make their characters because they don’t know how the game works
I think I'm sitting somewhere in the middle between the strategist, the mad scientist and the roleplayer.
I think there can be a difference though between mad scientists who come up with odd/chaotic solutions to problems that don't break immersion and mad scientist who are just odd/chaotic problems.
For example imagine a scenario where the party is dragged in front of an evil lord who the party is too weak to defeat and are about to be imprisoned and the rest of the party are out of ideas.
A bad mad scientist would likely intentionally incite the lord by trying to pee on him or something equally weird.
A good mad scientist would try to come up with a plan such as pretending they're rigged with explosives or by trying to trick the evil lord into thinking he should recruit the party to recover a made up artifact.
The second example is just smart play, not tied to a player type.
And a correction to the first example, a mad scientist would pee on a random powerful npc, hostile or not, for no reason at all.
“We’re close to 5000 subs” Wow. You grew up fast lol. Thanks for being you.
I LOVE the point you made with the Thomas Aquinas quote. As a recording engineer, I have always told artists that "The moment it touches someone else's ear, that song is not yours any more." Your song belongs to them now. We perceive what we perceive. We connect with what we connect with. There is no right or wrong, and every artist has to come to grips with the thing you said may not be the thing they heard.
I will put that quote in my armory. Thank you, Matthew.
I love how you are so respectful, and even loving of each kind of player, but still completely up front about their shortcomings and potential issues. This was INCREDIBLY helpful, as a new DM about to start her first campaign. Thank you!
Do you find that certain kinds of players tend to influence others? As in, if you have more Audience Members, maybe the Actor doesn't want to step out as much, making for more Audience Members? Or vice versa?
thank you. I thought half my party being an audience was something only I had
Ok you mentioned Rush in the first minute of the video. I have subscribed. New GM here, thanks for the info.
Hearing these lists I feel even more alienated. Is it so impossible to have spiraling levels of context? I want to tell the best story I can, so I build the best character I can to be a valid protagonist of this story, accepting the protagonist role I have a call to action to engage the world in earnest and interesting ways, because I respect my relationship to the environment as the protagonist I make my character incredibly capable, because I am incredibly capable I have the freedom to roleplay and act in the moment while moving the larger narrative forward, because I have the freedom to act as I want in roleplay I have a responsibility to help the narrative in building to something larger, because I have made a character who is capable of and willing to move the narrative to something larger, I have a responsibility to tell the best story possible...
I know it’s almost 3 years later, but I sent this video to my players and it sparked a great discussion on what players they think they are (and you were right about them being a mixture of player types) and what they thought about each other. Thanks so much for this!
Man I would love to play under you.
I'd say I'm 70% actor and 30% mad scientist, depending on the day.
yo I can't even believe 4 years passed tf??!!
I’m a tactician. I do my best not to “nag”, but I don’t always succeed...
I wish your parents would have "tactician"-ed you to not grow up a furry
I feel that. As a tactician I try to just advise the best course of action, and let everyone make their decisions after my suggestions. I feel like trying to get the group involved in a plan is better than micromanaging them during a fight. I dont always succeed either, and I think just making sure your group doesnt feel like you're being a nag, is what matters in the end because you dont want to drive away your other players/friends
I've played other co-op games and it was pretty demoralizing when I had two tacticians basically talk over me when it was my turn about what I needed to do. It felt like I may as well not be there and just have my character there as a friendly NPC they could steer. I respect the plan making when it's a(n in character) "meeting" in game, but when it comes to deciding what to do as individuals, it's really nice to have your autonomy be respected. :) (which I'm sure most tacticians can manage.)
As a DM I try to spot when this is happening and remind the player (or perhaps remind the table if I'm being less subtle) that it's THEIR character and to act as they think their character would act. It is usually enough to give them the confidence to do the thing they want to do, especially when its a new player who might not understand that D&D isn't a competitive game and that a sub-optimal choice isn't a wrong a choice, unles it really is but even that might be in-character :P
Know what's rhe best way to indulge yourself without nagging? Make generic call-outs. For example instead of "cut that rope bridge off!" Say "we need to block their way somehow!". Now everyone will think what to do and sure, it's likely they will come up with worse options but it will be entertaining and make them (usually) feel smart.
I know this is old, but man this is GREAT. So much excellent advice, and you cover so many things I've thought about as a DM. Usually I fear that my "audience member" players are simply not having fun, but you've given me a brand new perspective. I've definitely spent a lot of time trying to gently encourage my audience members to become players, mostly with the assumption that they were just too shy or intimidated to really engage. Now I know I can sit back and simply let them enjoy themselves.
I'm running 2 campaigns of the same module right now with 2 different friends groups and getting some friction with one of them. I think it's been well over a year since I last saw this. I needed to see it again.
This man knows the glory that is Rush. All hail Geddy Lee! All hail!
Yes !
...you did save me a headache with your two categories....
I actually have a few types you could add to your List:
The Loaner:
This guy has a big Bag of Holding (or a Crown Royal bag) that has enough dice for all the players to use. Should a new player join the table, or someone forget their dice, this is the guy who will loan them a set for the session (I actually had to borrow dice from other players who had extra sets until I got my own). Sometimes they make a Quick Loan, where in a player needs to roll 3 4-sided-dice, but only has 1, this guy will pass them the other two so that they can make their attack (had this happen to me a few times until I got my own).
The Librarian:
This guy has the books for the game, especially in a physical form or on an easily accessible device. Very useful for fact checking and character building.
Random Character Maker:
This guy makes several character sheets, (just no names or alignments (unless the character traits specify them)) but only uses them if the character they are using dies, or if there's a new campaign. As it is, should someone join in the middle of a session without a character ready, or is new, and there isn't time to build a character, this person will show the other some of the available sheets, and let that person pick a character from them.
Helpful DM/Veteran Player:
This guy will help out a new player, or someone using a character that differs from what they usually use, so that they can figure things out at a reasonable pace.
Secondary DM:
Very useful for when the main DM gets Creativity Block or is dealing with an illness/injury that will take some sessions to recover from. The secondary campaign might be simpler, but it does the job of buying time for the main DM to recover from their current issue.
Thank you so much for pointing out the Audience type of player; how to deal properly with players like this took me years. Knowing there's a resource out there to help others not make the same mistakes is a great comfort.
Coming back to this after watching it 4 years ago, the audience member part is such a good description and really helps me be at peace with most of my players as I really thought something was wrong but everyone seemed to have fun.