Don't know that I've ever rushed to a video faster. Appreciate you brother and just all of this. You are the man. P.S. Still my preferred doubles partner in the whole world.
Funny how things jump out at you sometimes exactly when you need it... both you and Robbie inspired me to get into coaching since i love the sport and i've helped a lot of my friends. But i have yet to try coaching because of exactly this video title... I'm not that good at disc golf... so thank you both for helping me move forward and reaching a goal :) @RobbieCDiscgolf @OverthrowDiscGolf
Thanks @OverthrowDiscGolf and @RobbieCDiscgolf you both have given me the drive to start coaching even if I’m not great at disc golf… Never has a video I needed so much come at such a great time! Thanks!!!
If I had to wager I'd put money on the success of your channel being due to your good looks. People are like 'This coaching is awful but I just can't look away". Thanks for all the content, its made a positive difference for me.
Give me a coach that watches, observes and understands the fundamentals over a great player trying to tell folks what "they do" any day. I really appreciate your heart to learn, teach and serve... Remember to listen to the ones who you have helped and ignore the keyboard haters. You are a good man... full stop!
Crazy how one person can be so loud and bold and make someone question themselves just because of their demeanor... You seem like a solid coach. You're not a high-pressure athlete, you're a coach. Those are not the same, they're both unique and both needed. Keep up the good work despite the critic!!
I wouldn't try to mold myself into an interpretation of a pro. That's a mistake made in my opinion by too many disc golfers. Too many want to do an impression of a pro and that's just not going to yield the best version of themselves. Not in this sport anyway.
Here's to praying robbie c is able to make it to the next one, because a little robbie brodie tension on the course sounds like an incredible viewing experience.
I've been playing for just over a year now and your videos took from 250 on a good throw to a 330-350 average and I can break 400 with some amount of regularity. You rock and I love the content. I'm not a good player by any means, but I've used what I have learned from your videos to help several friends start breaking the 300 barrier and improve their accuracy. You rock, I love the content, and thank you for making the sport approachable.
It comes down to the old adage of those who can do, those who can’t teach. Knowing what makes a good form for throwing is easier than being able to control your body movements to produce a good form consistently.
You are unequivocally the best coach in disc golf. I may be a little biased. ;) Appreciate your friendship and how you have transformed my game. This is one of the best videos I've seen in a while. Thank you, brother.
I am so glad that someone is finally saying that playing and coaching are different skill sets. Every time I have said that on Facebook for a dozen years I have gotten nothing but laugh reactions. Most of the top players can't tell you why they are good. They just do it and don't understand what or why. Good coaches can't make you win, but they can give you the tools to use to get there yourself. My grandfather was both a national champion freestyle wrestler and an award winning wrestling coach. When I was young he would tell me things (on a wide variety of subjects) like, "I can't tell you what to do, all I can do is give you the knowledge to make the best decision for yourself."
Thanks for sharing. From the very beginning you, your brand, and your team were clearly coach-like. Your channel grew because of the value you added to the Disc Golf space. You are correct that there are multiple aspects of the game that require coaching. You have the opportunity to build a brand that covers those aspects. Keep up the good work.
As a fellow bad player, good coach I feel so grateful for this video. You inspire me to keep pushing my dg coaching efforts further even though my personal player rating isn't great. Thank you.
This came at such a good time for me. I found the sport early this year and fell in love. I have been told by my peers i am good a breaking down the fundamentals and i love it so much. I am working to better my game and try to start coaching myself. I really needed to hear this! Thank you for all the great content your team has helped me get to where i am now.
I have learned SO MUCH from this channel. You're an excellent coach! I might look elsewhere for putting tips....Keep bringing it. You're an awesome communicator and clearly continue to do your homework. A+
Working with you and Mikey over the last 3 months has taken me from throwing 275 to 375 and made me so much more consistent. Love the vids and content!
Coaching is about talking to others. Playing is all about self talk. You are very good at what you do because you have put in the time. Lots of it. Music teachers are a cool breed to observe. They instruct with their voices but the musicians self talk is actually a conversation that takes place between their ears and their brain. No matter the profession, time spent is the key element. You spend time coaching and teaching yourself how to be better at it. Teaching and playing are two totally different spaces in the brain. Thank for doing what you do. Your’e very good at it.
“im not a good player” proceeds to lace 90% of the fairways. ik it is all relative lol. i think videos like this legitimatize to others how hard to work and how much you think about being a good coach. love to see it
I had always assumed you are a good player, but I don't give a heck how good (or bad) your scores are. Your coaching (and Mikey's!) have helped me a lot with my backhand. I waited two hours at the first NEDG expo to have you critique my form rapid fire, and the quick tips you gave me then put me on the right track. Since then, I've gone from throwing a messy 250 to a semi-consistent 325. I'm all in on your view of the throw, so keep up the ocntent.
I really appreciate this insight. Personally, I literally couldn’t watch that video because Brodie’s demeanor is so abrasive to me, but I enjoyed this breakdown of the events a lot. Coming from a background in the world of education, it is absolutely understandable and demonstrable that being an expert in the sense of performing or having immense raw knowledge on a skill/topic in no way equates to being an effective teacher for said subject. The inverse is also often true; one can be excellent at conveying and explaining information to a variety of students without being anywhere close to the top of the field they’re discussing in terms of achievement or individual performance. I never thought about your play before and it doesn’t impact my thoughts on your coaching at all, but it was still nice to have you break down your thoughts this way. Getting insight into the person and the approach in addition to the more coaching-oriented content is always a nice touch. Cheers!
Wouldn’t be any good at the sport without you Josh. You’re still a great player! Every great players makes a bad mistake every now and again. We are all human and we all deserve some grace on how we play the game.
I wouldn’t say you are an awful player and I totally agree with you that there isn’t always a direct correlation between coaching and playing. Appreciate your transparency and courage to put yourself out there the way you did.
I've taken lessons from some top pros. They give good tips but are just naturally gifted in a lot of areas. You know wayyy more about swing mechanics, drills, etc.
I just want to say that you arent just a good coach but a phenomenal one. Ive know a lot of different people that have done your coaching in a lot of different situations and goals. I dont think that a single one of them havent gotten to their goal. Thats a mark of a great coach
You're doing good work, Josh. Don't sweat the surface-level, knee jerk reactions. Anyone willing to take non-zero amount of time to look at what you do can tell you exemplify what it means to coach.
Yes, there is a lot of "coaches" who know how to play, but don't know how to coach. I'd say majority of pro disc golf player youtube videos are like: "look at me, I am so good". Yeah, that does not help me one bit. You can transfer knowledge and that makes all the difference. Thank you for that, don't ever change!
Being a coach or someone with an analytical mindset, the 'swing' is usually comprised of every aspect of the throw to a degree. Now do this, wait, feel the tug, etc... After a decent amount of training, fully letting go of the mechanics for a session can be a learning tool. That helped me realized that I needed to release my putters as early as my putt allows. (as you know!)
As a person who is very skilled in specific areas, I agree 100% with this. I am not a very good teacher in those skills but give me something that I recently got into, I can teach all day.
Enjoying that Foundation series. Didn't think that you were the imposter that episode.... but I do wonder why some people have that wide swing putt like a bowling bowl going for a strike. Thing with bowling is it's always the same distance reducing variability. I used to do that hyzered putt but for near-to-mid I trya get it as straight as possible these days, much better % lands nowadays.
Thanks for sharing this. Sentiment is especially true in teaching musical instruments. In my experience, those who naturally “get it” often can’t teach as well as those who have to work to understand it.
100% true. Communication skills are probably the most important and OT has truly grown the sport by reframing and re-examining how we teach and learn disc golf
I’m an MP40 player who throws around 400’ and is rated 925. I’m a form-matters player who constantly works on mechanics. My opinion is that you are definitely not a bad player but likely fit into the MA1 to MPO field based on what I’ve seen. Keep up the good work. Love your videos.
Even Tiger Woods had a swing coach. People that think you have to throw 500 feet or be a 1000+ rated to coach have their heads firmly up their ass. You can be a GREAT coach, and be able to articulate what is wrong with a throw, and not even throw 300 feet, or shoot under par. Disc skill does NOT equal coaching skill. Keep it up! You guys rock.
As someone who's played more than a few rounds with you i feel quite comfortable in saying regardless of where you see your skill level as a player, you're a wonderful and great person to play with. And to me that's way more important and valuable than being 1000 rated
Theres a patience virtue in coaches; the ability to see and conceptualize is the value to the athlete who simply cannot. Regardless of skill, if you see it you see it....I think youre a seer. Keep teachin Josh
Mindset is hard to learn. My friends in baseball always told me my "mound presence" was a huge part of my success. I'm a really calm person but when I pitched the only belief was "this is my field and you're only getting on base if i let you on base". "Let" being make a mistake. It's a realization that the only person who can beat you is you, and you're too good to be kicking your own ass.
Putting tip for Josh: I've struggled a lot with 25-50ft putts for years and this summer I found solution that works for me. 25-50 ft is distance where you need a solid putt and i used to over-turn my wrist open on followthrough quite often even when i knew about it and tried to avoid it. Thus missing right and weak saucing putts. The key was to focus on keeping the tip of pointer finger pointed backwards towards my torso when loading, when putting AND on followthrough. Why? Because this limits wrist motion and forces the lower 3 fingers to pop upwards minimizing deviation from target. Movement is more consistent this way because all fingers but thumb follow each other. So when loading pointer backwards all four turn backwards. And even when trying to keep pointer backwards on putt and followthrough it will open because other three opened. Its all about minimizing variables :)
Two quick tennis stories that relate to this video: I played a ton of league tennis and played 8.5 doubles a lot. We had pros at the local clubs that were good 4.5/5.0 players but they would never play league tennis because the felt that if the local people beat them they would not be taken seriously as a pro. Which was silly, in my opinion, but I could see where they were coming from. Second, we live in FL and my wife is a teacher. She had a class where everyone was setting a goal for the year and she had a student that could not come up with anything and my wife knew that the student played tennis. So my wife suggested that she set a goal of beating her dad in a set of tennis. The student replied saying that her dad was Venus Williams' coach, so probably not. Remember that those who can't do, teach. Those that can't teach, teach gym. I have only been playing disc golf for a year and Overthrow is one of the main sites that I have utilized to help me improve. Your instruction has been instrumental. The fact that you and Robbie and Nick Krush and Slingshot and all of the rest actually put this content out there and love what you do is great for the community. And it is videos like this that cause people that meet you out in the real world to treat you as a friend because they get to know you through this sort of content. Keep it up and thank you.
Looks like you play just fine to me. What you do FOR me is give me techniques to practice. I practice a lot. Over 200hrs of fieldwork this year, and its my first year. I went from 20+ over to a couple par rounds at my home course. When i play tourneys i am 8+ over. Im 55. Im getting better and most of that is technique ive learned from you.
I feel like if you focused your putt on shaking hands with the pole it would get you back on track. Was interesting watching you play and how you dealt with the pressure.
What’s the old saying? Those who can’t do, teach. Look at any professional sport today. It’s very rare for a coach to be able to perform at a pro level or they would be a pro. I’m just sorry that you doing the imposter disc golf video, which was awesome btw please be in more, made you feel like you had to explain yourself. I have seen many videos and tried plenty of your suggestions and had success and reading comments many others have as well. You’re a kind soul Josh keep up the good work!
I certainly didn’t have to say any of this but, having spoken to many coaches in the sphere, felt like it was helpful to say and was good to have a video out there with this concept front and center. The foundation series just gave me a good reason to do it.
There are surely examples in even the top level of every major sport where top coaches are poor players. No worries!!! And lots of your content is free for us on RUclips, so can't complain about that! Thanks.
A good coach has knowledge and can communicate that to someone in a way that is effective. I know what you should do.. Can I or do I I do it? Nope. BUT. Becuse Im always watching you guys, am a value add when playing a casual round when I see something and say "hey try this.. I saw it on youtube "? Sometimes its helpful from an outside perspective. Also, a good coach knows when to STFU too. The imposter series is awesome! For what its worth, I was empathizing with you the most and the "yips". I could coach self sabotage easy! HA. Good work man. Didn't skip a beat when it comes to your advise.
For those of you who haven't played a tournament, 13 min to 14 min 13 sec to me is the perfect example of what Will happen to you in your early days of tournament play. That's not what's happening to Josh but that script will play out. Every tournament I've played I started cold. Instant adrenaline, mind races, and paralysis of over analysis can set in. Maybe it's luck, but what saved me in those situations was thinking ahead, not off the tee pad, not the current hole. I was thinking, just make it to the woods that's when the discs will awaken. I've never counted how many tournaments I played. More than 5, less than 10. I'm a novice, but this will happen to you starting out. For those that are like me, when you're jammed up, the best way to get out of your head is to look ahead to the trees, not to the current hole
A reporter asked Lee Trevino once why he didn’t have a “swing guru”, like most of the other top players did. His response was hilarious: “when I find one who can beat me, I might listen to what he says”
Watched the imposter video after watching this, it confirmed what I already believed. Anything with Brodie Smith is pretty unwatchable. He may be a great guy in person, but on video he just reminds me of my neighbors dog. Always needs to make sure he’s barking loud enough for the whole neighborhood to know he’s there. Love your guys content, keep up the good work, it’s been super helpful!
You really are a good player, not just a great coach. You're too hard on yourself, which is common for players and coaches, but you've earned the right to be proud of where you're at right now Josh. 🙂
Josh has helped my game and is a good coach. Being able to do a thing is not the same as being able to TEACH a thing. Also if Josh is a bad player, I am absolutely terrible LOL.
I come from the world of Opera Singing, and also play disc golf. It may help you to know that in the high-level classical singing world, the great teachers are very rarely good singers. Great singers often lack an understranding of how they do their magical thing that is innate. Great singing teachers often are far too cerebral and analytic to perform at a high level. Performing at the top level involves other skills, ego, self-belief, stage presence, acting... all kinds of things besides the mechanics of the voice. Also, great singers looking for great teachers do not expect that their teacher be a great singer. Great teachers understand physiology, phychology, mechanics and technique. Great teachers are judged by their students and their accolades not their own performances (even if they are also a performer) I would think the same is true about Disc Golf. My own teacher was elderly with significant health challenges; no one had heard her sing in over a decade when I worked with her; but her students were working all over the world at top houses and there was a mile long waiting list to study with her. Go figure
It's funny, as I've personally continued on my disc golf journey every time i ask others for tips and tricks to better my game..eveyone recommends your channel lol 😂 and DGdoctor. They wouldn't be coming at you if you weren't doing it right. 💫
Good or bad player is all relative. You're top 1% among players and top .01% of coaches Pros have the opposite stats. Coach better than 99% Play better than 99.99%
Good players who do stuffy by instinct, cannot explain what they are doing. Bad players have to spend a lot of time figuring out what to do, and find many different things that work. Once you are able to explain these things for yourself, you can also explain these to other people. I've coached many different sports and when I started focusing on disc golf I mainly noticed that my friends started playing much better 😅. I'm just focusing on the details too much and can't get the overall timing figured out, something that you cannot think yourself to...
Actually, for me it is not difficult to "show" the correct technique, but as soon as I get the disc in my hand, I just cannot do the same thing. This is because of the inertia in the rim so the hand accelerates in a very different way with and without the disc in your hand (a towel does not help). If you have any thoughts and help with this, I would love to see your take on this in a future video!! ♥
For instance, a golf swing is more or less the same with and without the ball, so it's easier to get some use of practice swings. I learn martial arts fast for the same reason (all movements can be practiced the same way you actually do it in the end). But put a disc in my hand and I'm lost...
You can know what good looks like and how to get there but not have the coordination or physical ability to do it yourself. I know what my form should look like, but my rotorcuff gets an unproportion say in how my throw goes.
"Those who can't do, coach." Now, I know that is usually perceived as a negative saying. But even in most sports, you can see countless examples of excellent coaches who weren't star players. There's a big difference between understanding the fundamentals of what you need to do, and doing it. And then there's a big difference in understanding the fundamentals, and being able to communicate them. Good coaches only need to be able to know and communicate. Whereas top players only need to know and implement. Besides, I've gone to quite a few pro clinics over the years. And I firmly believe that your average 870-890 rated player is going to get more from learning from a 930-970 rated player than they would trying to emulate Eagle McMahon.
Years back Will Schusterick had a clinic describing at that time Paul Ulibarri's form. His present form is so different Paul wouldn't recognize himself looking back. When students see a pro, they look forward to throwing like them but unless you walked in their shoes, I think you're just doing an impression of a pro. That's where you have to trust the coach; Do you want to do an imitation of a pro or become your best version on the disc golf course? If it's the latter, I say OT is the way to go. Except for putting. Just kidding
It seemed like you took it more personally than Brodie meant for it to be, but he also said and gestured some disrespectful shit during that imposter vid. I am very empathetic and it seemed like he was belligerant even if he was just trying to drum up engagement or excitement for the vid bc it didn't seem like you reciprocated the same energy in the moment. This is all just my own little world of how things appeared, however he we are watching a vid where you are defending your livelihood and I imagine it is due in no small part to Brodie's brash statements. If anything I hope this generates views and comments for you as I've gained insight from your shit before and feel like you are positive for the disc golf community. I can understand people assuming great coaches are or at least once were great players but that isn't the case for almost ANY sport. Coaching/Teaching is an entirely different skillset from performing. Understanding theory as well as being good at communication are incredibly important for coaches but can be completely disregarded in the case of innate talent when it comes to performance. Theory and communication may be extremely helpful for a great athlete but it is entirely possible that someone's understanding of their personal body kinesthetics are enough for them to be competitive at a high level. However, being competitive at a high level does not guarantee that they know how to communicate their own actions in any meaningful way. The main reason for this is that people learn in many different ways and if your only teaching method is to show people how good you are then you are leaving a majority of the population out of the equation. I'm of the opinion that realizing how an individual learns is just as important as knowing what to teach them. Incorporating many different ways of explaining the same theory and determining which of those methods helps an individual is extremely beneficial if your goal is to be effective at conveying knowledge. This was longer winded than I meant for it to be but basically just wanted to say that you are appreciated. Good luck bud.
Also real quick, no hate on brodie. I think he's a bit rough around the edges but usually seems like a decent guy. I think he took something too far w/o realizing it, he may struggle with some social que's and couldn't tell he was being over bearing OR you guys have beef I don't know about and he was trying to push as far as he could w/o being obviously hateful but I doubt that.
How many Hall of Fame Coaches were also Hall of Fame players in their respective sports... It doesn't seem to be something that's very common because the skill sets related to the game are different.
I'm terrible. Haven't even had a udisc round score 200 yet. But on the form check group on facebook I can almost always pick out an issue with other people's form just from how much form content I've taken in while trying to fix myself (and so far have not been able to execute). Certainly someone can geek out on the technical part of any hobby and yet struggle with it in practice. Same with my photography hobby. My ability to geek out on photography outpaces my skill there too.
Played professionally? Half or more. How many were standouts? Pretty close to zero. How many played collegiately? Basically all, equivalent to all disc golf coaches being at least amateur players. Again, coaching and playing are different skill sets.
So many people think form is all you need to be a like a top player. I would say the best players have genetic gifts. There are plenty of pros that dont have much better form than a good a mount amateurs. A good coach help players improve, not take them to a super high level because that’s not realistic
Personaly understanding the mechanics added with the ability to see faults in others form and or mind set is more important in good coaches than thier personal abilities to actually play. Just because one can play. Doesn't mean they will be a good coach
bad players can absolutely be great coaches! same as the best sports players have coaches, and why are those coaches not the worlds greatest athletes? A good coach will apply their understanding of a physical mechanic and apply the best available technique to your build.
There's a reason that the best players in any sport cannot coach: They do things naturally, and can't tell you why. In other sports, people who were average athletes, but worked hard to understand the fundamentals and the game, are the best coaches, because they had to do the work to learn the skills and strategies. These channels that have some top pro selling a teaching website make me wary, because I don't think Simon or AB would be good coaches for this reason.
same with personal trainers. statistically, the ones on steroids get more clients and csn charge more money because people have this idea that big muscles means big knowledge and it's just not true. some of the best trainers I know don't have mich muscle and it's because they are health conscience and don't do steroids. also, bodybuilding as a whole is just not healthy. keeping about 15% body fat while slowly progressively overloading and doing your cardio is what's healthy. yet the healthiest trainers make less money then the steroid using mobsters who bulk and cut and never stepped on a treadmill in there life.
Natural talent can allow one player to outperform opponents with the same level of experience and game knowledge, but is the more talented player going to be better able to effectively communicate what a new player needs to hear just because they themselves can execute at a higher level? Absolutely not. In coaching, knowledge of good technique and strong communication skills are tested much more than personal skill.
1 confession. Robbie C is my putting coach. Ok, I said it. We can confront my betrayal of OT at last. Sorry boss, I wanted to tell you. Now the weight is lifted and we can move on
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Mitch, the PT like Lauren; I noticed a similarity on their RHBH. I think I just recognized what I saw Mitch doing on Robbie C (spin putting). The nerf Mike Strauss method. Was oblivious to it, and Mitch didn't putt like that till this summer. I was like wtf? but that was absolutely what he was doing inside circle 2 I have to say, for Mitch it worked really good
Don't know that I've ever rushed to a video faster. Appreciate you brother and just all of this. You are the man. P.S. Still my preferred doubles partner in the whole world.
Love you Robbie
It doesn’t take a genius to know you’re a great coach. The breakdowns and things you bring to the table is stuff I’ve never even considered
🖤
Funny how things jump out at you sometimes exactly when you need it... both you and Robbie inspired me to get into coaching since i love the sport and i've helped a lot of my friends. But i have yet to try coaching because of exactly this video title... I'm not that good at disc golf... so thank you both for helping me move forward and reaching a goal :) @RobbieCDiscgolf @OverthrowDiscGolf
Thanks @OverthrowDiscGolf and @RobbieCDiscgolf you both have given me the drive to start coaching even if I’m not great at disc golf… Never has a video I needed so much come at such a great time! Thanks!!!
If I had to wager I'd put money on the success of your channel being due to your good looks. People are like 'This coaching is awful but I just can't look away". Thanks for all the content, its made a positive difference for me.
Thats what my wife has been telling me. I just didn’t believe her
Give me a coach that watches, observes and understands the fundamentals over a great player trying to tell folks what "they do" any day. I really appreciate your heart to learn, teach and serve... Remember to listen to the ones who you have helped and ignore the keyboard haters. You are a good man... full stop!
Crazy how one person can be so loud and bold and make someone question themselves just because of their demeanor... You seem like a solid coach. You're not a high-pressure athlete, you're a coach. Those are not the same, they're both unique and both needed. Keep up the good work despite the critic!!
I wouldn't try to mold myself into an interpretation of a pro. That's a mistake made in my opinion by too many disc golfers. Too many want to do an impression of a pro and that's just not going to yield the best version of themselves. Not in this sport anyway.
Here's to praying robbie c is able to make it to the next one, because a little robbie brodie tension on the course sounds like an incredible viewing experience.
I've been playing for just over a year now and your videos took from 250 on a good throw to a 330-350 average and I can break 400 with some amount of regularity. You rock and I love the content. I'm not a good player by any means, but I've used what I have learned from your videos to help several friends start breaking the 300 barrier and improve their accuracy. You rock, I love the content, and thank you for making the sport approachable.
It comes down to the old adage of those who can do, those who can’t teach. Knowing what makes a good form for throwing is easier than being able to control your body movements to produce a good form consistently.
You are unequivocally the best coach in disc golf. I may be a little biased. ;) Appreciate your friendship and how you have transformed my game. This is one of the best videos I've seen in a while. Thank you, brother.
I think you’re a great coach Josh. I started a little over a year ago and thanks to your videos and coaching I have gained over 250 feet of distance.
I am so glad that someone is finally saying that playing and coaching are different skill sets. Every time I have said that on Facebook for a dozen years I have gotten nothing but laugh reactions.
Most of the top players can't tell you why they are good. They just do it and don't understand what or why. Good coaches can't make you win, but they can give you the tools to use to get there yourself.
My grandfather was both a national champion freestyle wrestler and an award winning wrestling coach. When I was young he would tell me things (on a wide variety of subjects) like, "I can't tell you what to do, all I can do is give you the knowledge to make the best decision for yourself."
Thanks for sharing. From the very beginning you, your brand, and your team were clearly coach-like. Your channel grew because of the value you added to the Disc Golf space. You are correct that there are multiple aspects of the game that require coaching. You have the opportunity to build a brand that covers those aspects. Keep up the good work.
As a fellow bad player, good coach I feel so grateful for this video. You inspire me to keep pushing my dg coaching efforts further even though my personal player rating isn't great. Thank you.
This came at such a good time for me. I found the sport early this year and fell in love. I have been told by my peers i am good a breaking down the fundamentals and i love it so much. I am working to better my game and try to start coaching myself. I really needed to hear this! Thank you for all the great content your team has helped me get to where i am now.
I have learned SO MUCH from this channel. You're an excellent coach! I might look elsewhere for putting tips....Keep bringing it. You're an awesome communicator and clearly continue to do your homework. A+
Working with you and Mikey over the last 3 months has taken me from throwing 275 to 375 and made me so much more consistent. Love the vids and content!
Love the transparency you’ve always had on this channel, Josh. Keep of the good work!
Coaching is about talking to others. Playing is all about self talk. You are very good at what you do because you have put in the time. Lots of it. Music teachers are a cool breed to observe. They instruct with their voices but the musicians self talk is actually a conversation that takes place between their ears and their brain. No matter the profession, time spent is the key element. You spend time coaching and teaching yourself how to be better at it. Teaching and playing are two totally different spaces in the brain. Thank for doing what you do. Your’e very good at it.
I have a music education degree 😀
“im not a good player” proceeds to lace 90% of the fairways. ik it is all relative lol. i think videos like this legitimatize to others how hard to work and how much you think about being a good coach. love to see it
I had always assumed you are a good player, but I don't give a heck how good (or bad) your scores are. Your coaching (and Mikey's!) have helped me a lot with my backhand. I waited two hours at the first NEDG expo to have you critique my form rapid fire, and the quick tips you gave me then put me on the right track. Since then, I've gone from throwing a messy 250 to a semi-consistent 325. I'm all in on your view of the throw, so keep up the ocntent.
I really appreciate this insight. Personally, I literally couldn’t watch that video because Brodie’s demeanor is so abrasive to me, but I enjoyed this breakdown of the events a lot.
Coming from a background in the world of education, it is absolutely understandable and demonstrable that being an expert in the sense of performing or having immense raw knowledge on a skill/topic in no way equates to being an effective teacher for said subject. The inverse is also often true; one can be excellent at conveying and explaining information to a variety of students without being anywhere close to the top of the field they’re discussing in terms of achievement or individual performance.
I never thought about your play before and it doesn’t impact my thoughts on your coaching at all, but it was still nice to have you break down your thoughts this way. Getting insight into the person and the approach in addition to the more coaching-oriented content is always a nice touch. Cheers!
Man I am just so glad that guys like you do what you do - and the best coaches are NOT the best players by far, in any sport. Keep going bro…
Wouldn’t be any good at the sport without you Josh. You’re still a great player! Every great players makes a bad mistake every now and again. We are all human and we all deserve some grace on how we play the game.
I wouldn’t say you are an awful player and I totally agree with you that there isn’t always a direct correlation between coaching and playing. Appreciate your transparency and courage to put yourself out there the way you did.
I've taken lessons from some top pros. They give good tips but are just naturally gifted in a lot of areas. You know wayyy more about swing mechanics, drills, etc.
I just want to say that you arent just a good coach but a phenomenal one. Ive know a lot of different people that have done your coaching in a lot of different situations and goals. I dont think that a single one of them havent gotten to their goal. Thats a mark of a great coach
Charley Lau was a .255 hitter but he was among the best hitting instructors in the show
How was Michael Jordan as a coach? hehehe 2 totally different sets of skills.
You're doing good work, Josh. Don't sweat the surface-level, knee jerk reactions. Anyone willing to take non-zero amount of time to look at what you do can tell you exemplify what it means to coach.
I've learned a lot from you. I really appreciate what you do man. Thank you
You Josh are the best coach on youtube! Bummer that you dont coach on site in Finland
Yes, there is a lot of "coaches" who know how to play, but don't know how to coach. I'd say majority of pro disc golf player youtube videos are like: "look at me, I am so good". Yeah, that does not help me one bit. You can transfer knowledge and that makes all the difference. Thank you for that, don't ever change!
Hoping to make the pilgrimage to Lynchburg one day just to take a few lessons from you. Keep up the great work!
This is so good. I wouldn’t call you a bad player, definitely in the good category. I would love to have a lesson with you.
Any combination is possible. For instance I’m a bad coach AND a bad player. But I still have fun. Love your channel.
We love you Josh!
Being a coach or someone with an analytical mindset, the 'swing' is usually comprised of every aspect of the throw to a degree. Now do this, wait, feel the tug, etc... After a decent amount of training, fully letting go of the mechanics for a session can be a learning tool. That helped me realized that I needed to release my putters as early as my putt allows. (as you know!)
As a person who is very skilled in specific areas, I agree 100% with this. I am not a very good teacher in those skills but give me something that I recently got into, I can teach all day.
Enjoying that Foundation series. Didn't think that you were the imposter that episode.... but I do wonder why some people have that wide swing putt like a bowling bowl going for a strike. Thing with bowling is it's always the same distance reducing variability. I used to do that hyzered putt but for near-to-mid I trya get it as straight as possible these days, much better % lands nowadays.
Thanks for sharing this. Sentiment is especially true in teaching musical instruments. In my experience, those who naturally “get it” often can’t teach as well as those who have to work to understand it.
I’ve got a music education degree sitting on a shelf somewhere 😊. I love teaching music, but am not so good at the classical side of it oddly enough
100% true. Communication skills are probably the most important and OT has truly grown the sport by reframing and re-examining how we teach and learn disc golf
Also yes to that additional content and time to go find that Foundation video
Keep it rolling Josh!
We appreciate ya Josh! :)
I’m an MP40 player who throws around 400’ and is rated 925. I’m a form-matters player who constantly works on mechanics. My opinion is that you are definitely not a bad player but likely fit into the MA1 to MPO field based on what I’ve seen. Keep up the good work. Love your videos.
Even Tiger Woods had a swing coach. People that think you have to throw 500 feet or be a 1000+ rated to coach have their heads firmly up their ass. You can be a GREAT coach, and be able to articulate what is wrong with a throw, and not even throw 300 feet, or shoot under par. Disc skill does NOT equal coaching skill. Keep it up! You guys rock.
17 and 18 looked silky smooth off the tee pad👍
Yeahhhhh! Glad to finally watch you play!
As someone who's played more than a few rounds with you i feel quite comfortable in saying regardless of where you see your skill level as a player, you're a wonderful and great person to play with. And to me that's way more important and valuable than being 1000 rated
Theres a patience virtue in coaches; the ability to see and conceptualize is the value to the athlete who simply cannot. Regardless of skill, if you see it you see it....I think youre a seer. Keep teachin Josh
👀
Mindset is hard to learn. My friends in baseball always told me my "mound presence" was a huge part of my success. I'm a really calm person but when I pitched the only belief was "this is my field and you're only getting on base if i let you on base". "Let" being make a mistake.
It's a realization that the only person who can beat you is you, and you're too good to be kicking your own ass.
Putting tip for Josh: I've struggled a lot with 25-50ft putts for years and this summer I found solution that works for me.
25-50 ft is distance where you need a solid putt and i used to over-turn my wrist open on followthrough quite often even when i knew about it and tried to avoid it. Thus missing right and weak saucing putts.
The key was to focus on keeping the tip of pointer finger pointed backwards towards my torso when loading, when putting AND on followthrough. Why? Because this limits wrist motion and forces the lower 3 fingers to pop upwards minimizing deviation from target.
Movement is more consistent this way because all fingers but thumb follow each other. So when loading pointer backwards all four turn backwards. And even when trying to keep pointer backwards on putt and followthrough it will open because other three opened. Its all about minimizing variables :)
I’ll give it a go!
Two quick tennis stories that relate to this video:
I played a ton of league tennis and played 8.5 doubles a lot. We had pros at the local clubs that were good 4.5/5.0 players but they would never play league tennis because the felt that if the local people beat them they would not be taken seriously as a pro. Which was silly, in my opinion, but I could see where they were coming from.
Second, we live in FL and my wife is a teacher. She had a class where everyone was setting a goal for the year and she had a student that could not come up with anything and my wife knew that the student played tennis. So my wife suggested that she set a goal of beating her dad in a set of tennis. The student replied saying that her dad was Venus Williams' coach, so probably not.
Remember that those who can't do, teach. Those that can't teach, teach gym.
I have only been playing disc golf for a year and Overthrow is one of the main sites that I have utilized to help me improve. Your instruction has been instrumental. The fact that you and Robbie and Nick Krush and Slingshot and all of the rest actually put this content out there and love what you do is great for the community. And it is videos like this that cause people that meet you out in the real world to treat you as a friend because they get to know you through this sort of content.
Keep it up and thank you.
Yep. I only got up to a 4.5 level myself. Mikey was a 5.0 guy.
Bad player decent coach myself and I love your content.
Looks like you play just fine to me. What you do FOR me is give me techniques to practice. I practice a lot. Over 200hrs of fieldwork this year, and its my first year. I went from 20+ over to a couple par rounds at my home course. When i play tourneys i am 8+ over. Im 55. Im getting better and most of that is technique ive learned from you.
I feel like if you focused your putt on shaking hands with the pole it would get you back on track. Was interesting watching you play and how you dealt with the pressure.
What’s the old saying? Those who can’t do, teach. Look at any professional sport today. It’s very rare for a coach to be able to perform at a pro level or they would be a pro. I’m just sorry that you doing the imposter disc golf video, which was awesome btw please be in more, made you feel like you had to explain yourself. I have seen many videos and tried plenty of your suggestions and had success and reading comments many others have as well. You’re a kind soul Josh keep up the good work!
I certainly didn’t have to say any of this but, having spoken to many coaches in the sphere, felt like it was helpful to say and was good to have a video out there with this concept front and center. The foundation series just gave me a good reason to do it.
There are surely examples in even the top level of every major sport where top coaches are poor players. No worries!!! And lots of your content is free for us on RUclips, so can't complain about that! Thanks.
A good coach has knowledge and can communicate that to someone in a way that is effective. I know what you should do.. Can I or do I I do it? Nope. BUT. Becuse Im always watching you guys, am a value add when playing a casual round when I see something and say "hey try this.. I saw it on youtube "? Sometimes its helpful from an outside perspective. Also, a good coach knows when to STFU too. The imposter series is awesome! For what its worth, I was empathizing with you the most and the "yips". I could coach self sabotage easy! HA. Good work man. Didn't skip a beat when it comes to your advise.
For those of you who haven't played a tournament, 13 min to 14 min 13 sec to me is the perfect example of what Will happen to you in your early days of tournament play. That's not what's happening to Josh but that script will play out. Every tournament I've played I started cold. Instant adrenaline, mind races, and paralysis of over analysis can set in.
Maybe it's luck, but what saved me in those situations was thinking ahead, not off the tee pad, not the current hole. I was thinking, just make it to the woods that's when the discs will awaken. I've never counted how many tournaments I played. More than 5, less than 10. I'm a novice, but this will happen to you starting out. For those that are like me, when you're jammed up, the best way to get out of your head is to look ahead to the trees, not to the current hole
A reporter asked Lee Trevino once why he didn’t have a “swing guru”, like most of the other top players did. His response was hilarious: “when I find one who can beat me, I might listen to what he says”
Watched the imposter video after watching this, it confirmed what I already believed. Anything with Brodie Smith is pretty unwatchable. He may be a great guy in person, but on video he just reminds me of my neighbors dog. Always needs to make sure he’s barking loud enough for the whole neighborhood to know he’s there. Love your guys content, keep up the good work, it’s been super helpful!
Dude just seems like an all around jerk.
You really are a good player, not just a great coach. You're too hard on yourself, which is common for players and coaches, but you've earned the right to be proud of where you're at right now Josh. 🙂
Josh has helped my game and is a good coach. Being able to do a thing is not the same as being able to TEACH a thing. Also if Josh is a bad player, I am absolutely terrible LOL.
I come from the world of Opera Singing, and also play disc golf. It may help you to know that in the high-level classical singing world, the great teachers are very rarely good singers. Great singers often lack an understranding of how they do their magical thing that is innate. Great singing teachers often are far too cerebral and analytic to perform at a high level. Performing at the top level involves other skills, ego, self-belief, stage presence, acting... all kinds of things besides the mechanics of the voice. Also, great singers looking for great teachers do not expect that their teacher be a great singer. Great teachers understand physiology, phychology, mechanics and technique. Great teachers are judged by their students and their accolades not their own performances (even if they are also a performer) I would think the same is true about Disc Golf. My own teacher was elderly with significant health challenges; no one had heard her sing in over a decade when I worked with her; but her students were working all over the world at top houses and there was a mile long waiting list to study with her. Go figure
Yep. It’s a good reminder. My bachelors is actually in Music Education with a vocal specialization so that’s kind of my home world
It's funny, as I've personally continued on my disc golf journey every time i ask others for tips and tricks to better my game..eveyone recommends your channel lol 😂 and DGdoctor. They wouldn't be coming at you if you weren't doing it right. 💫
Also, I've never seen someone play hole 5 at Sandusky forehand that's wild.
If you’ve got 360’ on a forehand it’s a pretty simple birdie. Dinked the pole with it yesterday and usually have a birdie look.
you're a great player in my opinion and awesome coach love the vid
Good or bad player is all relative.
You're top 1% among players and top .01% of coaches
Pros have the opposite stats. Coach better than 99%
Play better than 99.99%
Good players who do stuffy by instinct, cannot explain what they are doing. Bad players have to spend a lot of time figuring out what to do, and find many different things that work. Once you are able to explain these things for yourself, you can also explain these to other people. I've coached many different sports and when I started focusing on disc golf I mainly noticed that my friends started playing much better 😅. I'm just focusing on the details too much and can't get the overall timing figured out, something that you cannot think yourself to...
Actually, for me it is not difficult to "show" the correct technique, but as soon as I get the disc in my hand, I just cannot do the same thing. This is because of the inertia in the rim so the hand accelerates in a very different way with and without the disc in your hand (a towel does not help). If you have any thoughts and help with this, I would love to see your take on this in a future video!! ♥
For instance, a golf swing is more or less the same with and without the ball, so it's easier to get some use of practice swings. I learn martial arts fast for the same reason (all movements can be practiced the same way you actually do it in the end). But put a disc in my hand and I'm lost...
You can know what good looks like and how to get there but not have the coordination or physical ability to do it yourself. I know what my form should look like, but my rotorcuff gets an unproportion say in how my throw goes.
"Those who can't do, coach." Now, I know that is usually perceived as a negative saying. But even in most sports, you can see countless examples of excellent coaches who weren't star players. There's a big difference between understanding the fundamentals of what you need to do, and doing it. And then there's a big difference in understanding the fundamentals, and being able to communicate them. Good coaches only need to be able to know and communicate. Whereas top players only need to know and implement.
Besides, I've gone to quite a few pro clinics over the years. And I firmly believe that your average 870-890 rated player is going to get more from learning from a 930-970 rated player than they would trying to emulate Eagle McMahon.
Years back Will Schusterick had a clinic describing at that time Paul Ulibarri's form. His present form is so different Paul wouldn't recognize himself looking back. When students see a pro, they look forward to throwing like them but unless you walked in their shoes, I think you're just doing an impression of a pro. That's where you have to trust the coach; Do you want to do an imitation of a pro or become your best version on the disc golf course? If it's the latter, I say OT is the way to go. Except for putting. Just kidding
I mean you kinda smoked that course even with the off putt..
It seemed like you took it more personally than Brodie meant for it to be, but he also said and gestured some disrespectful shit during that imposter vid. I am very empathetic and it seemed like he was belligerant even if he was just trying to drum up engagement or excitement for the vid bc it didn't seem like you reciprocated the same energy in the moment. This is all just my own little world of how things appeared, however he we are watching a vid where you are defending your livelihood and I imagine it is due in no small part to Brodie's brash statements. If anything I hope this generates views and comments for you as I've gained insight from your shit before and feel like you are positive for the disc golf community. I can understand people assuming great coaches are or at least once were great players but that isn't the case for almost ANY sport. Coaching/Teaching is an entirely different skillset from performing. Understanding theory as well as being good at communication are incredibly important for coaches but can be completely disregarded in the case of innate talent when it comes to performance. Theory and communication may be extremely helpful for a great athlete but it is entirely possible that someone's understanding of their personal body kinesthetics are enough for them to be competitive at a high level. However, being competitive at a high level does not guarantee that they know how to communicate their own actions in any meaningful way. The main reason for this is that people learn in many different ways and if your only teaching method is to show people how good you are then you are leaving a majority of the population out of the equation. I'm of the opinion that realizing how an individual learns is just as important as knowing what to teach them. Incorporating many different ways of explaining the same theory and determining which of those methods helps an individual is extremely beneficial if your goal is to be effective at conveying knowledge. This was longer winded than I meant for it to be but basically just wanted to say that you are appreciated. Good luck bud.
Also real quick, no hate on brodie. I think he's a bit rough around the edges but usually seems like a decent guy. I think he took something too far w/o realizing it, he may struggle with some social que's and couldn't tell he was being over bearing OR you guys have beef I don't know about and he was trying to push as far as he could w/o being obviously hateful but I doubt that.
How many Hall of Fame Coaches were also Hall of Fame players in their respective sports... It doesn't seem to be something that's very common because the skill sets related to the game are different.
I'm terrible. Haven't even had a udisc round score 200 yet. But on the form check group on facebook I can almost always pick out an issue with other people's form just from how much form content I've taken in while trying to fix myself (and so far have not been able to execute). Certainly someone can geek out on the technical part of any hobby and yet struggle with it in practice. Same with my photography hobby. My ability to geek out on photography outpaces my skill there too.
I was never a fast swimmer but I coached kids who went on to swim for D1 schools. You don’t have to be the best to coach the best
I was awful with my legs in swimming. All arms for me 🤣
Crazy that anyone would watch this...
And not leave a like and enjoy all 18:48 seconds of it.
🖤
how many NFL/NBA/ETC coaches played professionally?
Played professionally? Half or more. How many were standouts? Pretty close to zero. How many played collegiately? Basically all, equivalent to all disc golf coaches being at least amateur players.
Again, coaching and playing are different skill sets.
Bill belichick was not a great player, but ended up being one of the best coaches in the nfl
For real though... what's the deal with the putt?
To be explained
So many people think form is all you need to be a like a top player. I would say the best players have genetic gifts. There are plenty of pros that dont have much better form than a good a mount amateurs. A good coach help players improve, not take them to a super high level because that’s not realistic
Just read a book called The Sports Gene which is a great read on this topic.
The best coaches in all other sports never played those sports at anywhere near the level they coached.
I've heard gannon try to coach ppl. Good players dont make good coaches
Personaly understanding the mechanics added with the ability to see faults in others form and or mind set is more important in good coaches than thier personal abilities to actually play. Just because one can play. Doesn't mean they will be a good coach
Simple answer yes. Athleticism will always beat good form. A good player may not even know why they throw far
Got more of a Phil Jackson than a Larry Bird!
Those who can't - teach. Those can - do. Those people that can throw and play incredibly can't teach it.
bad players can absolutely be great coaches! same as the best sports players have coaches, and why are those coaches not the worlds greatest athletes? A good coach will apply their understanding of a physical mechanic and apply the best available technique to your build.
the worst math teacher I ever had was a math prodigy it was just easy for him he never had to learn he just got it, how could he be a good teacher?
Ofcourse! Without even watching the video; just look at other sports. Some of the best coaches in PL never played professionally.
The answer is in the thousands of disc golfers you have already successfully helped.
There's a reason that the best players in any sport cannot coach: They do things naturally, and can't tell you why. In other sports, people who were average athletes, but worked hard to understand the fundamentals and the game, are the best coaches, because they had to do the work to learn the skills and strategies.
These channels that have some top pro selling a teaching website make me wary, because I don't think Simon or AB would be good coaches for this reason.
Oh man, I'm sorry but those putts.. you needed to go on the first vote.. that was kinda rough tho.
Hey I agree. Like I said, I would’ve been voting me off too!
same with personal trainers. statistically, the ones on steroids get more clients and csn charge more money because people have this idea that big muscles means big knowledge and it's just not true. some of the best trainers I know don't have mich muscle and it's because they are health conscience and don't do steroids. also, bodybuilding as a whole is just not healthy. keeping about 15% body fat while slowly progressively overloading and doing your cardio is what's healthy. yet the healthiest trainers make less money then the steroid using mobsters who bulk and cut and never stepped on a treadmill in there life.
The bodybuilding world is fascinating to me.
Natural talent can allow one player to outperform opponents with the same level of experience and game knowledge, but is the more talented player going to be better able to effectively communicate what a new player needs to hear just because they themselves can execute at a higher level? Absolutely not. In coaching, knowledge of good technique and strong communication skills are tested much more than personal skill.
1 confession. Robbie C is my putting coach. Ok, I said it. We can confront my betrayal of OT at last. Sorry boss, I wanted to tell you. Now the weight is lifted and we can move on
He’s mine too
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Mitch, the PT like Lauren; I noticed a similarity on their RHBH.
I think I just recognized what I saw Mitch doing on Robbie C (spin putting). The nerf Mike Strauss method. Was oblivious to it, and Mitch didn't putt like that till this summer.
I was like wtf? but that was absolutely what he was doing inside circle 2
I have to say, for Mitch it worked really good
Bill Belichick is no Tom Brady or Jerry Rice.