Comparison of Jaw and Mouth Opening in Classical and Non-Classical Styles of Singing
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- Опубликовано: 4 сен 2024
- In singing, the degree of jaw and mouth opening should be determined by the pitch, dynamics, resonance needs, and aesthetic goals of the singer. Here, I compare the jaw and mouth opening of some famous opera singers to some well-known musical theatre, pop, and rock singers and talk about when a large jaw and/or mouth opening is desirable. / singwisevocals
Very helpful distinctions and examples between classical and pop/belting. Thank you.
Thanks so much Karyn. What you say at 1:20 to 1:40 is such an overlooked or misunderstood aspect of singing well.
The megaphone shape: Clear sound. Reversed megaphone: Darker sound.
Did you know Idina Menzel and Chris Daughtry had the same voice teacher? This voice teacher studied under the same voice instructors Pavarotti studied with in Europe.
I did not know that! Interesting!
❤omg thankyou this makes so much more sense now that I have begun singing lessons. Fascinated by your teachings. /learned some pretty detailed anatomy + theory before that as well, it complements well.
Thank you so much! I wanted to ask: Pavarotti visibly arches and retracts his tongue on high notes; is it normal to retract the tongue in opera singing?
Here I am in 2021 getting knowledge from your channel. Thank u so much
I am loving these posts Karen, thank you so much! I am learning so much with your scientific approach :)
The nerd inside me loves seeing Bozeman get the credit he deserves! Such a wonderful and kind scholar who has made acoustic approaches easy for all to understand!
His book is fascinating. As soon as I found out that it was coming out, I pre-ordered it. Then when I got it in my hands, I was like a child on Christmas morning!
Would you please tell me the complete name of the book made reference by you two? I´d like to read it too!
In this comment, we were talking about Kenneth Bozeman's Practical Vocal Acoustics: Pedagogic Applications for Teachers and Singers. In the video, I also cite other researchers, including Ingo Titze (he has published a ton of research articles), Donald G. Miller (Resonance in Singing: Voice Building through Acoustic Feedback), and Johan Sundberg (published research articles, as well as his book The Science of the Singing Voice).
Great video as always! Thank you. I liked Kaela's question (below) because I was thinking the same thing during the clip. Karyn, I really appreciated your explanation. My question is: does excessive mouth opening push the larynx down and cause rigidity?
I think it depends on the position of the jaw. Oftentimes, the CCM singer moves the jaw slightly more forward in order to accommodate the rising larynx. The classical singer may be instructed to slightly raise the skull away from the jaw and 'sing toward the lower balcony.'
On the higher notes in opera it becomes more of a jowl retraction than the smile you find in modern commercial music, but the jaw still drops low.
Hello again, another question for you, wise one! What is your opinion on the "belters bite," a slight protrusion of the chin when belting that some people teach? I figure maybe it helps narrow the epilaryngeal sphincter... but I've been taught never to stick the chin out because it thins the voice. thoughts?
I was always taught that the jaw should stay "wrapped down and back.' And for the classical aesthetic, this is certainly the case because it can create a thinness in the tone. But in belting a very slight forward position of the jaw can allow a bit of extra room for the elevated hyoid bone - I believe it's Titze who suggests this - that is part of the belting vocal tract configuration. It doesn't have anything to do with the narrowing of the aryepiglottis itself, which can be narrowed even with a low larynx and 'collected' jaw (e.g., to help create the singer's formant in classical singing). In CCM, voices are generally 'thinner' (by classical aesthetics) because they're highly chiaro (bright). And if the slight protrusion of the jaw helps to achieve a belt aesthetic, then it's fine. I wouldn't encourage that position all the time because it can create muscular stress on the jaw muscles and joints (even if only a tiny bit protruded), but we don't belt every note, anyway.
The jaw should never come forward. Even when belting.
Wonderful and instructful hope to se more of this!
I'll try to make it happen!
You are a great teacher!
Hi Karyn, thanks for this video. I agree that the 'three-finger-rule' actually causes a lot of tension in many learning singers, including myself currently since we tend to shove our jaw too low in the process. We tend to have mistaken this to help improving diction when on the contrary it distorts the vowels A LOT and makes it not sound like 'singing like speaking' anymore.
Very true! Thanks for commenting and sharing your thoughts and experiences.
The video examples were great!
I'm so glad!
Another great video, Karyn. Would love a video sharing your perspective on how anatomical differences can influence your approach.
Great video suggestion!
Awesome and unique info as always. Thank you Karyn
:)
Excellent video!
I really appreciated the examples. Please do more with examples! Can you provide a list of the researchers you cited? Thanks!
I'm glad you liked it! In this video, I cited Ingo Titze (he has published a ton of research articles), Kenneth Bozeman (Practical Vocal Acoustics: Pedagogic Applications for Teachers and Singers), Donald G. Miller (Resonance in Singing: Voice Building through Acoustic Feedback), and Johan Sundberg (published research articles, as well as his book The Science of the Singing Voice).
singwisevocals thanks! !!!
You're most welcome!
Dear karyn, I asked this question before about where to aim the sound and you replied that there is no aiming aspect. but I'm still wondering that even if I correctly follow the posture, relax jaw and etc, I can manipulate the sound that I can produce.
1- I can send the sound to the back of my head and still have strong resonance in the mask with open throat as a result.
2- aim the hard palet that has a powerful resonance result and narrow throat.
I know that the question may look weird but I want to know when everything has been done correctly what kind of feeling should I get and what is the pathway of the air flow in CCM singing especially in the high range.
I can't tell you exactly 'where' and how you're going to experience the sensations of resonance, but I can describe where I feel them. (I actually recorded a section for Mixed Voice Part 4 that described the different sensations and 'locations' that I experience when I'm singing the same note in pure chest, mixed voice, and head voice, but I decided to edit it out for the sake of time and relevance.) In pure chest voice, I feel a lot of sensations in the oropharynx and soft palate area. When singing in a CT dominant coordination (head voice) on the same pitch, the source signal (and thus the sensation) isn't as strong and the sensations are more dispersed throughout the entire vocal tract and there is a kind of 'cushion-y' feeling, as though the air and resonance are floating around. When I sing in a mixed voiced (chest mix), it definitely feels more 'forward,' and 'laser-focused,' as though it's 'hitting' the upper gum ridge, and the throat feels very passive. Most singers that I know also experience similar sensations, with mixed voice feeling more 'forward' and 'laser-focused.' But know that if you don't experience the same thing, this doesn't necessary indicate that you're doing something wrong in terms of the physical coordination. I hope this helps.
Amazed by your knowledge and logical explanation
Wow. Nice to hear someone talking about the theory behind that!
Hi i have some question,
- i felt when i did little retraction of my tongue near the end of singing, i mean before the resting space, help me to have more stable pitch…
What is you oppinion, am i right or wrong?
-So we choose the different embouchure depends on the song type? Or we should stick to one type embouchure for all song?
Thank you for your answer…
Hi Karyn, I was wondering what you think of Demi Lovato's vocal technique since you shared a clip of her. I've always thought her technique sounds unhealthy and strained. Also, is the movement of the jaw on melismas or whenever okay sometimes, because she does it a lot in the original video.
Early on, Demi's technique sounded very unhealthy - around the Skyscraper period (but even in the Camp Rock movies). It sounded hoarse, strained, and limited in range. She suffered a vocal injury and had to cancel shows. But I think she's done some retraining since then because her technique has improved significantly and the voice sounds much healthier to me. She's been focusing a lot more on belting high notes in her newer material. Jaw movement during melismas is not harmful in and of itself. It may be a sign of tensions, but not necessarily. I believe in economizing our movements as much as possible, so I believe that it's unnecessary to move the jaw up and down with each note when singing the same vowel sound - it makes the jaw muscles have to work harder/more and also affects resonance by changing the shape of the vocal tract, which can create a bit of unevenness in tone.
singwisevocals is her raspiness a bad sign?
Only if she isn't doing it intentionally as an artistic effect (i.e., if that's the only way that she can sing - but it's not). Singers can use rasp and distortion safely - I'm not an expert in the techniques, though. With the exception of the occasional use of vocal fry, I tend to have pretty clean vocals and haven't spent a lot of time experimenting with those qualities in my own voice.
This video stimulated me intellectually a lot, good job, thank you. Regards
my jaw always opens out of its hinges when i’m talking or even just resting it feels like i have a disconnect unless i create a smile shape with my closed mouth...? do you know how i can fix this, Karyn?
Please check Regine Velasquez singing and observe her mouth opening. There's one particular video called What Kind Of Fool Am I (highest version). Ms. Velasquez looks, and sounds, as if you've been teaching her!
Love this video!
Idina’s technique doesn’t sound very healthy to me.
Her voice sounded stunning on the Wicked studio recording, but I feel like she pushes a lot during live performances. And, in recent years, she seems to be trying to 'do' more with her voice, which results in an imbalanced technique and some weird 'artistic/stylistic' choices.
I like the demostration of differences singers so I can lean easier . Thank yo
Heh, great video. This video was a real mouthful. ;-)
Do you have a video on falsetto, how to do it? A piece of music says to sing the tenor part at the very end in falsetto, even though the note is singable normally, it is not that high. So how is that done, what does it sound like?
Thanks for your time and talents!
Please analize Mariah Carey Technique in Daydream and Music Box Era .. thank you:)
Hail and blesing. How large should the jaw opening be when we are at the lowest part of our tessiture?
As always, it depends somewhat on dynamics and always on the vowel being sung. But generally speaking, in the lower part of your range, your mouth should be shaped and your jaw positioned just like it is during speech.
Ive definitely been thinking on this very subject lately. On occasion I find im being lazy and not opening my mouth but on other occasions Im more or less "chasing the vowel" way too much and when i realize it and close the jaw some it gets way easier to hit the note. I think its massively helpful to study vids of great singers to see what they are doing for certain sounds and intensities etc. This guy, John Sykes, is one of my absolute fave singers. Ive noticed he keeps his mouth pretty closed in general but he does open it in key situations. Dude gets a rich tone from a VERY relaxed effort level ruclips.net/video/ds5Gdf9IWDo/видео.html
Talking a bit too fast for me 😅
In conclusion: contemporary singers just dont know how to use their voice in a healthy way!