Here in Switzerland this system is very popular. In Commercial building it is run through big cable channels and every socket is taped of it. Another Place where I see it used is Christmas markets where it is just temporarily run from market stall to market stall and a short extension lead is connected to each tap-of so that every stall gets power
How do they get away with not fusing each drop to protect the thinner cable? OK the chargepoint tells the car how much to draw but is that sufficient to guarantee safety?
That end termination kinda scary. I know it's probably polycarbonate. But probably should have something else to cover the individual conductors. For a secondary security if it gets smashed. Working in the industrial field if it may happen it will. Don't underestimate the ignorance of the everyday person.
I’ve always thought it crazy how we need to adhere to cable bending radius when clipping SWA etc, but that rule goes straight out the windows when bending cores into a terminal box, like the 16mm conductors in this video!
Looks good. Initial thought was if somebody smashed a tap off box how good would the connection be when installing a replacement as the cables would have been screwed into already. And also if you wanted to remove charge points you would have to leave the tap off in place as there would be exposed live parts if removed completely and damage to the copper cores of course.
@@funhaus_crew haha trust me I’m in the comments all over RUclips ! even tons of none electrical related stuff 👀 keep your eyes peeled ! Yep I know the builder that wired them like that ! Enough to block his number 😂
Good looking system. As an aside, Doncaster cables told me last year that 'Hi-Tuff' cable is made by Draka, but is now no longer sold in the UK, but is in Europe and other places, while 'Tuff-Sheath' cable is Doncaster's own version of Hi-Tuff.
Very nice, glad to see cables evolving in the EV install market at last.Great system, I could fit that all day... neat, safe, and could be a standard to follow. We should use more flat cables in this country with insulation displacement around buildings to drop lighting down walls etc. much neater.
Nice system but the cable outlet of the junction box should be on the bottom of it rather than on the sides. That would make the cable to the charging point straight rather than having a 90 degrees curve... Would look much more cleaner and would make mounting these cables on the wall easier.
Ahh, but with this layout, you can drape two drops off of a single tap. So center the tap between two parking bays and bring the branch cable/conduit down to the respective charge points in those bays.
piggy backing off this question. as for adding to an existing install. is there a joint system or is it done via 2 of the take of boxes and then 2 end caps?
watching from the states, the first thing I notice is that here, things which want a specific length of cable and strip have a gauge somewhere on the thing which makes it easy to cut, strip, and terminate without pulling out a measuring tape.
@@efixx what I meant was that rather than writing a number on the device, our manufacturers stamp a gauge so you hold the wire to the device to measure it.
Looks like a great system from IDACS. I am having trouble understanding how 1 circuit can support 101 chargers. Surely there would be some disappointed drivers wanting to go to work in the morning if all say 80 charging units were in use overnight. I know the system with the EASEE units gas quing and load balancing built into it, but it just seams an impossible ask to have all those vehicles ready for use every morning. Please tell me my fears are wrong?
Valid question Brian - The limiting factor with EV charging is the supply in to the building - 100 chargers at 22kW or even 7kW is a massive demand. So clearly some form of diversity is needed somewhere in the system. In reality not all 100 cars would have empty batteries and not all cars will be expecting to make a journey of 100's of miles everyday. Not all cars arrive and leave at the same time. At the same time you wouldn't want to move your car from a charger in the middle of the night to free up a charger. So the Easee system matches available power to demand. You can of course share it out equally or set priority for certain chargers based upon need. - Hope this helps - We'll ask Joe to pick this up in a Q&A.
100 is a bit much, but using the average daily driving distance for Europe and some average consumption numbers and assuming cars are parked for 10 hours overnight, the math says that a 22kW supply can support 31 cars. Probably more because the average includes long-distance miles, which are typically not charged at home. However, this needs a charge point that can switch any of the Ls onto pin 1 of the plug for cars that only support 1-phase charging. Otherwise the heavy bias to L1 would be the limiting factor. Rotating the Ls would help, but the statistical distribution doesn't work too well for such small numbers and you could end up with all 1-phase cars on the same L again.
Something I'm curious about with these EV chargers is how you balance the phases, a lot of cars only have single phase on board chargers, presumably they're always wired to L1 on the car (?|) in that case, so when doing multi-drop charger installations should you rotate the phases at each point to improve the balance?
@@JimWhitaker They would need to switch which phase they physically connect to pin 1 of the plug. That's not impossible, but it's also not trivial at all.
@@HenryLoenwind I don't see an easy answer on google, but I would think an advanced charging system would choose which phase each charge point draws from according to what is plugged into it.
So this is just for the EV chargers? Surely it would be even better if the tap of points had some sort of over current protection or built in RCBO? As the smaller cable feeding each EV point is small than the supply and rated at 63amps?
what happens if you install a tap off then it need to be moved to another position, youd be left with the cable pierced holes in it , is ther a type of cover plate if you have to remove the tapp off point
Finally I’ve only been in suspense since the last video I watched looking at the weird things on the wall..... It’s even got Flexi con. Interesting system. The attachment points for the wire seem a little bit shaky when tightening otherwise I can’t find fault with it unless somebody removes the endcap or a box or the cable gets damaged. Seems like the screws don’t go through they just kind of pinch really interesting system.
@@jmonsted 10 what wiring lol I'm not that old but I did do a bit of reading on the subject way back when. What an interesting method of connection and it's not documented that well on the Internet. I would love to make a video if I was crazy enough to buy the equipment. Although I did re-buy 10base2 equipment because I accidentally Fried my free hub. Found a good deal on eBay for a new one and manage to find the exact same model I had for a good deal too. I bet you know where this is going yes I wanted to set up a 10-Base2 network for fun. I even managed to hack it into running on 75Ω coax for about 50 feet. Someday I plan to retest with more than two nodes I have a printer, network card and actually have terminators now. I originally only had one so I was playing around with some resistors but managed to find a 10k volume pot amateur that actually gave me 50k ohms across terminals.
@@efixx it was and I'm looking forward to the next video too. Yeah they didn't look like they were attached for the amount of torque that was needed. I could also see scenarios where suddenly somebody wants a connection point to be removed and a wall to be nearby or something to close that it interacts with the housing. It's an interesting flexible bus bar system.
Thanks for this gents, I like the thought of this install and how it is an easy solution to allow for future additional chargers. Are there any issues with using this type of install on a TNCS supply? Apologies but I wasn't aware of this EV charger manufacturer either, I'm assuming the billable metering is via GSM? Thanks Ryan
If you'd like to talk to us about our flat cabling system - and our other EV charging solutions - we'll be at Southern Manufacturing & Electronics, 8-10th Feb in Farnborough. Stand H150
What about uninstalling an EV points? If a branching box is removed is there a blanking plate for the cable to allow it to A) retain basic protection and B) maintain Insulation resistance? Or do the boxes just get left in place?
That’s a clever bit of kit. One thought, If it is is used outdoors exposed to rain and say a tap off box has been installed onto the track and then later removed or repositioned, how is the ip56 rating achieved of the track with piercing through the sheathing? I’m not knocking it I think it is a great system with as you say I can think of lots of applications for it, not just EV👍
I had the same thought. Presumabley the connection boxes are not intended to be removed, only the appliance cord. You would therefore need to blank off both cable exit holes.
We can provide some tape that would help with this issue and keep the IP65 rating. You're right, this cable has been used in lots of different applications such as hotels, railway stations, ships and large warehouses.
One plus point is that the supply could be in the centre of the cable rather than at the ends . Not sure about 60A via compression connection but it must have been tested to overload conditions
@@edc1569 the calculation uses the average load and average length as a basis. I did it many years ago, and it's a relatively simple formula, though I'd have to look it up to do it again. and yes, feeding from the center is the best design .
@@efixx obviously the screws will need to be rated at least to 63A then so you wouldn't be able to to use any old screws should one get lost somehow - believe me I've seen many a strange "modifications " of equipment where I live in Africa.
This looks brilliant and I can think of one reason not to use it… What about use metering? Somehow I don't see landlords picking up the electricity bill.
Hi guys, with your 3 phase busbar style wiring used for carpark Ev Chargers how do they charge the customers for their electricity bill as some might use them ever day and others use them only once a week.......enjoy your videos, cheers
We use a system at work called Tyco clips for extra low voltage stuff, it works so well. Could never see why it couldn't be beefed up for low ( 110v 240v) stuff. Now it has.
Great product and superb explanation of its install. ( Where are the ferrules though?.....:)). I am pretty sure the next step up from this will be, fully contactless , where no physical screwing in of the wires to achieve termination will be necessary.
Nice system, but I prefer Canalis rail systems (Schneider Electric). They're rated IP55, so still sufficient. That's their small system, rated for 160A/phase: www.se.com/uk/en/product-range/1752-canalis-kn/ The advantage is, you can open an access point on the rail. Clip in the tap-off. If you want to relocate it, you remove the tap-off and close the lid. With this cable this is not possible, once you've penetrated the cable you can't relocate the box at a later time. Inside of the rails are bare copper rails, and the tap-off modules clamp directly on the copper rails but the system is actually idiot proof. Even if you open the lid, live parts are not directly accessible. Due to the lack of insulation inside, there will be no problems with fumes in case of a fire caused by halogens in the insulation of cables. This system is mostly used in industrial installations, there are also versions which go up to 1000A. I've also seen such systems in bigger apartment buildings. That could also be an alternative.
@@jmonsted I would agree, it's likely a case of simply removing only the branch conductors, then installing a plug to seal the opening. But leave the splicing box in place on the flat cable.
If the IP rating of the box to cable is IP65 why have an IP68/69 as in the example of the steam cleaning in the food industry the IP65 would be inadequate, or am I missing something?
Errr... You can't install that charger like this and still meet the requirements according to IEC 61851, which regulates EV charging stations and installations. Each charger needs to have an RCD type B, so both AC and DC leakage interruption AND an MCB for over current protection. While the Easee charger does DC interruption by means of the charger's own contactor, it doesn't qualify as an RCD according to IEC 61008-1, IEC 61009-1, IEC 60947-2 and IEC 62423. It also lacks over-current protection, e.g. an MCB. Other chargers have integrated RCBO and digital DC interruption, which DO qualify for flat cable installation, but not these chargers.
@@efixx Actually no; to be compliant with IEC61851 you can use the contactor in the charger to provide the DC leakage interruption function, which means that you only need to add an RCD type A (compliant with IEC 61008-1, IEC 61009-1, IEC 60947-2 and IEC 62423). Some stations have an RCBO built in (DIN rail component) in addition to the integrated DC leakage interruption functionality - these you CAN install on a flat cable like this and still comply. But this does not apply to any of the ones you mentioned.
With the Easee chargers, you can have up to 101 commercial chargers on one circuit. However, you can fix the flat cabling in and install 1 charger initially, as the demand for EV chargers grow, you can simply branch off the cable at any time to add more chargers, without the need to install more cabling infrastructure. The Easee chargers talk to each other wirelessly to balance the power load.
Looking at table 4E2A of BS7671 the It for a 16mm 90 degree, non armoured cable, installed to reference method C (three phase) is 96A. if you put 11kW chargers (16A three phase) and assume a diversity of 1 (which is likely) then you only be able to have a maximum of 6 x 11kW chargers. 11kW chargers can charge a Tesla Model S in approx 6-10hrs other electric cars are not as efficient. for a car park, people may not need full charge, but you can see how the chargers quickly loose their utility if people are only able to receive a small charge, whilst popping to the shops. the key here is managing the clients expectations. if its just a planning or property developer, box ticking exercise to increase the value of their development then this isn't really a consideration. Ultimately, my opinion is that its use depends largely on the client expectations. voltage drop will also limit its use. it would be good to see how it performs after the electrical installation is properly designed.
Remember that averaged out over all cars, each car only needs about 7kWh per day if it's plugged in daily. The "fill up from empty to full" is not the typical use case unless you look at DC fast charger stations.
That’s down to the building owner / installer - usually these chargers are paired to a back office billing system and controlled via and app or RFID tag.
Cant see a use for it in big car parks, easier to take an armoured to a pillar, fit a rotary isolator , bobs your uncle, future proofed ... plus the local thieves would be whipping the end caps off, n-e it and kerching off to the scrappy they go ... be interested to see how those pins fair over time , used to use a Bakelite system years ago and after 4-5 years they would arc out due to the copper work hardening ... marine use? have they installed it in a car park in a port or fitted on ships? companies do love the term Marine to back up claims.. its us poor ETO's that have to put it right when the s**t hits the fan
As ive seen a comment before, i would question the end piece, as it appears to be single insulated, unless due to the end cap being ip rated, does that negate that issue?
Can you have a Smart EV charger without a smart phone for older people or won’t you be able to use the charger? Or RV is not for older people and people not good with tec
What was the name of the clips used on the cable to the charger please? Couldn’t quite catch it. If anyone is feeling generous they could even add a link... 🙂
That configuration would likely be a problem for EV charging regardless of product. I imagine this could be run along the ceiling, then bring the conduit or branch cable down to a charge point attached to a board suspended from the ceiling at a reasonable access height.
Not installation related but practicality related instead. In your hypothetical (or any other multiple occupancy situation) who pays for the energy use-age? Its all well and good having a single wiring solution to easily supply electricity to multiple chargers but how do you apportion the billable electricity used to the properties? Last I checked the EV Chargers don't have that type of functionality integrated enabling them to talk to an installed Electricity meter. And even if they did the Electricity Meters installed by the Suppliers/DNO's (in the United Kingdom) don't have the ability to talk to the EV Chargers. They can barely get Smart Meters to work properly and/or communicate with the smart meter "Interface units" inside the home.........
indeed I thought the same, and given the amount of energy used most custo ers would like to be able to shop around for suppliers, so the landlord paying the bill and then billing the tenant may not go down well
Good system , but not much use if you block of flats has no covered car parking. . Most flats I've worked on the car parking spaces left open to elements. Most work done for landlords wants each tennant billed separately for the electricity they use and most tennant won't pay a community charge to charge there neighbours car. My main concern is it resistance to impact damage . If you have a block of 10 flats you going to need 20 chargers so what cable sizes are there ? Plus I would want an isolation switch between that flat cable and the charger so I could work safely to maintain the chargers . Plus I would want to supply a minimum of 30 amps per charger , if you cant and each car is charging on a few amps it going to take for ever for every on to charge there cars , so the side of those conductors aren't going to the mustard in any situation were you doing to draw a lot of currant . I've done work in factories and hotels were your often installing 35 and 50mm sq and even larger cables a small block of ten flats are going to need 20 chargers at 30 amps a piece that. 600 amps , that cable ain't going cut the mustard . Great system but in the real world limited use . People want there cars charged in the shorted possible time .
Don't worry about guaranteeing 30A to every vehicle, a lot of people misunderstand the needs to home charging, they aren't the same as long distance driving, cars are plugged in for many hours and most people's commute requires
Salve! Sono sicura di avere fatto un grande affari, sarà e già è un vero business!!! Dobbiamo entrare in contatto..espero più presto possibile grazie! Around the world!!!
These systems are great, provided that everyone in a block pays into a maintenance/ charging fund for EV's. If they don't already have something set up many of those flats are going to find their bills going up and subsidizing other residents that may have larger battery EV's etc. Thus any new build should have individual bay meters or EV chargers linked to the flat. It's a great idea but voltage drop and total loading will be an issue as you're not going to find it able to do more than 3x 22 kw chargers if they're all plugged in over night on max demand - people will find themselves with less charge than they expected when heading off to work. Which very much feels like throwing good money at bad until the rest of the fast charging infrastructure is built out.
I don't think anyone would find it acceptable for residents to by paying for other residents car charging. With 250 mile EVs becoming the standard, I really can't imagine people having much worry about having enough energy for the commute, even at 3kW you can get over 30kWh into a battery in a 12 hour stint, that's enough for an easy 100 miles. Most EVs don't have a 22kW on board charger, 7kW single phase and 11kW 3 phase is common.
Here in Switzerland this system is very popular. In Commercial building it is run through big cable channels and every socket is taped of it. Another Place where I see it used is Christmas markets where it is just temporarily run from market stall to market stall and a short extension lead is connected to each tap-of so that every stall gets power
Great insight thanks 🙏
I'm going to fit this in my living room, just above the skirting boards, perfect solution.
🤣
For a moment I thought you were serious 😅😅😅
If the price was right, i'd do that in my garage.
This looks brilliant, fairly certain there's going to be way more uses for this system in the future
Looks a good product but l worry about possible damage caused by vandalism in certain applications. Keep up the good work and stay safe.
Was thinking the same myself, what if some moron comes along and starts wacking it with a pole or something.
I've just fitted 9x 16a 3 phase isolators in a warehouse. It would have been a quarter of the installation time if I had this product
How do they get away with not fusing each drop to protect the thinner cable? OK the chargepoint tells the car how much to draw but is that sufficient to guarantee safety?
The fuses are in the Easee charging stations, the European Norm allow for a drop of 2 sections without fuse, if the lead is shorter than 3 m.
That end termination kinda scary. I know it's probably polycarbonate. But probably should have something else to cover the individual conductors. For a secondary security if it gets smashed. Working in the industrial field if it may happen it will. Don't underestimate the ignorance of the everyday person.
prospective demand vs fault current. it looks fine to me
I’ve always thought it crazy how we need to adhere to cable bending radius when clipping SWA etc, but that rule goes straight out the windows when bending cores into a terminal box, like the 16mm conductors in this video!
We used Tri-rated class 5 conductors for the 16mm sq - it would have been a struggle with regular conductors.
What an excellent system, and so well presented too.
Learn something everyday. Thanks chaps.
Looks good. Initial thought was if somebody smashed a tap off box how good would the connection be when installing a replacement as the cables would have been screwed into already. And also if you wanted to remove charge points you would have to leave the tap off in place as there would be exposed live parts if removed completely and damage to the copper cores of course.
Similar to line taps then with regards to the terminals in the branch box?
Wonderful when manufacturers consider installation techniques.
Marvellous
Thanks for keeping us up to date with new products
Looks excellent lads, looks like plenty of room inside the tap offs too 👌🏼
The cablesmith himself popping up on efixx. Have you found the culprit who wired the smoke alarm into the switch wire lol
@@funhaus_crew haha trust me I’m in the comments all over RUclips ! even tons of none electrical related stuff 👀 keep your eyes peeled !
Yep I know the builder that wired them like that ! Enough to block his number 😂
Good looking system.
As an aside, Doncaster cables told me last year that 'Hi-Tuff' cable is made by Draka, but is now no longer sold in the UK, but is in Europe and other places, while 'Tuff-Sheath' cable is Doncaster's own version of Hi-Tuff.
Thanks John - we mix up the names all the time - you are right it’s the Doncaster version we use.
Very nice, glad to see cables evolving in the EV install market at last.Great system, I could fit that all day... neat, safe, and could be a standard to follow. We should use more flat cables in this country with insulation displacement around buildings to drop lighting down walls etc. much neater.
my best wishes from Greece!!
Been waiting for this, great video!!
Thanks Jason 👍
Great video chaps! So simple 👌👌😍
Looks cool, not sold on screwing into quite high current cables that are not that far apart
looks like a really good bit of kit now to tender for the multi-storey carpark EV chargers in my town👍🏻
What a fantastic system!
Fantastic product and another great video. Thanks so much.
Merry Christmas 🎄 and happy new year to team eFixx
So simple that even an electrician could install it!
Good explanation
Nice system but the cable outlet of the junction box should be on the bottom of it rather than on the sides. That would make the cable to the charging point straight rather than having a 90 degrees curve... Would look much more cleaner and would make mounting these cables on the wall easier.
Ahh, but with this layout, you can drape two drops off of a single tap. So center the tap between two parking bays and bring the branch cable/conduit down to the respective charge points in those bays.
How impact resistant is the cable?
Is it supplied at say 3 metres lengths and joined at intersections or on a roll and wound out?
I'm just thinking how rigid
piggy backing off this question. as for adding to an existing install. is there a joint system or is it done via 2 of the take of boxes and then 2 end caps?
The cable comes on a reel.
Yes it would be 2 take off boxes and end caps
@@efixx would it be the take off or the supply boxes? Just thinking about the load and the cable size reqd to link up
watching from the states, the first thing I notice is that here, things which want a specific length of cable and strip have a gauge somewhere on the thing which makes it easy to cut, strip, and terminate without pulling out a measuring tape.
This is a pretty unique cable and the first time we’ve used it, hence of careful measurements.
@@efixx what I meant was that rather than writing a number on the device, our manufacturers stamp a gauge so you hold the wire to the device to measure it.
Good cable for a workshop/warehouse installation
Looks like a great system from IDACS. I am having trouble understanding how 1 circuit can support 101 chargers. Surely there would be some disappointed drivers wanting to go to work in the morning if all say 80 charging units were in use overnight. I know the system with the EASEE units gas quing and load balancing built into it, but it just seams an impossible ask to have all those vehicles ready for use every morning. Please tell me my fears are wrong?
Valid question Brian - The limiting factor with EV charging is the supply in to the building - 100 chargers at 22kW or even 7kW is a massive demand. So clearly some form of diversity is needed somewhere in the system. In reality not all 100 cars would have empty batteries and not all cars will be expecting to make a journey of 100's of miles everyday. Not all cars arrive and leave at the same time. At the same time you wouldn't want to move your car from a charger in the middle of the night to free up a charger. So the Easee system matches available power to demand. You can of course share it out equally or set priority for certain chargers based upon need. - Hope this helps - We'll ask Joe to pick this up in a Q&A.
It's all to do with that load balancing, we'd be happy to talk it through with you if you give us a call on 02380 279999 :)
100 is a bit much, but using the average daily driving distance for Europe and some average consumption numbers and assuming cars are parked for 10 hours overnight, the math says that a 22kW supply can support 31 cars. Probably more because the average includes long-distance miles, which are typically not charged at home.
However, this needs a charge point that can switch any of the Ls onto pin 1 of the plug for cars that only support 1-phase charging. Otherwise the heavy bias to L1 would be the limiting factor. Rotating the Ls would help, but the statistical distribution doesn't work too well for such small numbers and you could end up with all 1-phase cars on the same L again.
Something I'm curious about with these EV chargers is how you balance the phases, a lot of cars only have single phase on board chargers, presumably they're always wired to L1 on the car (?|) in that case, so when doing multi-drop charger installations should you rotate the phases at each point to improve the balance?
Yes rotate the phases
Don't the charging units distribute the phase loads?
@@JimWhitaker They would need to switch which phase they physically connect to pin 1 of the plug. That's not impossible, but it's also not trivial at all.
@@HenryLoenwind I don't see an easy answer on google, but I would think an advanced charging system would choose which phase each charge point draws from according to what is plugged into it.
Are the tap off boxes fuse able
Shouldn't the tap off boxes be fused since dropping down to a smaller cable size?
A few specific regulations cover this situation - similar to tap offs on under floor bus bars in offices. We will explore this in a future Q&A video.
Ok, thanks.
So this is just for the EV chargers? Surely it would be even better if the tap of points had some sort of over current protection or built in RCBO? As the smaller cable feeding each EV point is small than the supply and rated at 63amps?
We have a video coming out soon which looks at how the regs allow for this situation.
@@efixx has this video come out yet?
what happens if you install a tap off then it need to be moved to another position, youd be left with the cable pierced holes in it , is ther a type of cover plate if you have to remove the tapp off point
Or just leave the tap in place and plug the gland holes
There's no cover plate available, but we can provide a self amalgamating tape which will help if you need to move the tap off point
Finally I’ve only been in suspense since the last video I watched looking at the weird things on the wall.....
It’s even got Flexi con.
Interesting system. The attachment points for the wire seem a little bit shaky when tightening otherwise I can’t find fault with it unless somebody removes the endcap or a box or the cable gets damaged. Seems like the screws don’t go through they just kind of pinch really interesting system.
🤣Hope it was worth the wait. The connection to the wire needs a significant amount of torque.
Works just like the "vampire taps" of ancient ethernet 10base-5 wiring. Those clever swiss :)
@@jmonsted 10 what wiring lol I'm not that old but I did do a bit of reading on the subject way back when. What an interesting method of connection and it's not documented that well on the Internet. I would love to make a video if I was crazy enough to buy the equipment.
Although I did re-buy 10base2 equipment because I accidentally Fried my free hub. Found a good deal on eBay for a new one and manage to find the exact same model I had for a good deal too. I bet you know where this is going yes I wanted to set up a 10-Base2 network for fun. I even managed to hack it into running on 75Ω coax for about 50 feet. Someday I plan to retest with more than two nodes I have a printer, network card and actually have terminators now. I originally only had one so I was playing around with some resistors but managed to find a 10k volume pot amateur that actually gave me 50k ohms across terminals.
@@efixx it was and I'm looking forward to the next video too. Yeah they didn't look like they were attached for the amount of torque that was needed. I could also see scenarios where suddenly somebody wants a connection point to be removed and a wall to be nearby or something to close that it interacts with the housing. It's an interesting flexible bus bar system.
But very interesting and looks a good system.
Thanks for this gents, I like the thought of this install and how it is an easy solution to allow for future additional chargers.
Are there any issues with using this type of install on a TNCS supply?
Apologies but I wasn't aware of this EV charger manufacturer either, I'm assuming the billable metering is via GSM?
Thanks
Ryan
what about the removal of a drop? can this be achieved without replacing the cable?
I imagine you would just leave the branching box in place. Remove the drop cable and add a second blanking plug.
If you'd like to talk to us about our flat cabling system - and our other EV charging solutions - we'll be at Southern Manufacturing & Electronics, 8-10th Feb in Farnborough. Stand H150
What about uninstalling an EV points? If a branching box is removed is there a blanking plate for the cable to allow it to A) retain basic protection and B) maintain Insulation resistance? Or do the boxes just get left in place?
There is a kit to cover the cable if a box is moved. It looks like self sealing tape. We haven’t tried it. We would probably leave the box in situ.
That’s a clever bit of kit. One thought, If it is is used outdoors exposed to rain and say a tap off box has been installed onto the track and then later removed or repositioned, how is the ip56 rating achieved of the track with piercing through the sheathing?
I’m not knocking it I think it is a great system with as you say I can think of lots of applications for it, not just EV👍
I had the same thought. Presumabley the connection boxes are not intended to be removed, only the appliance cord. You would therefore need to blank off both cable exit holes.
We can provide some tape that would help with this issue and keep the IP65 rating. You're right, this cable has been used in lots of different applications such as hotels, railway stations, ships and large warehouses.
Same as with a junction box on a normal cable run. You wouldn't expect to be able to remove that and "uncut" the cable going through it either...
Great idea 😎
What size holes does the tap off make in the busbar cable once the tap box is relocated after installation. Do they make a IP65 blanking plate?
Great if you have a long flat wall and there are no pillars 👍
One plus point is that the supply could be in the centre of the cable rather than at the ends . Not sure about 60A via compression connection but it must have been tested to overload conditions
It would be 32A max, not 60A
@@mikeselectricstuff it shows a C63 mcb so I assumed 63amp supply
Hi eFixx, does this system pass current regulations? All charge points need to have their own supply.
I think its fantastic but what gives it its mechanical protection? Good video btw. @efixx
It’s got a tough outer sheath - similar to the Tuff Sheath we featured last week.
Fuse protection for each EV charging point .. isolation switch ?? . 👍👍 different cable size used .
Great question John, watch this space!
They need a tool for calculating voltage drop with different loads at different distance tap offs.
If you have the option its would be best to put the supply mid-span.
@@edc1569 the calculation uses the average load and average length as a basis. I did it many years ago, and it's a relatively simple formula, though I'd have to look it up to do it again. and yes, feeding from the center is the best design .
Surely, the screw will be damaging the core? How far in does it go??
No, the screw goes into the strands and pushes them apart rather than screwing onto them.
@@efixx obviously the screws will need to be rated at least to 63A then so you wouldn't be able to to use any old screws should one get lost somehow - believe me I've seen many a strange "modifications " of equipment where I live in Africa.
This is superb
This looks brilliant and I can think of one reason not to use it… What about use metering? Somehow I don't see landlords picking up the electricity bill.
The back office of the Easee charger can deal with that - you have to use a Tag or an App to receive a charge.
Hi guys, with your 3 phase busbar style wiring used for carpark Ev Chargers how do they charge the customers for their electricity bill as some might use them ever day and others use them only once a week.......enjoy your videos, cheers
We use a system at work called Tyco clips for extra low voltage stuff, it works so well. Could never see why it couldn't be beefed up for low ( 110v 240v) stuff. Now it has.
Great product and superb explanation of its install. ( Where are the ferrules though?.....:)).
I am pretty sure the next step up from this will be, fully contactless , where no physical screwing in of the wires to achieve termination will be necessary.
Have been waiting and waiting and waiting for this video..... it’s gonna be good !
You mentioned how close the cables were! How much closer with the screw inside?
Very nice system from the looks of it! I take it all good figures when you checked continuity, etc?
Looks good.
At 10:37 you say you are using Hi tuff cable ?? Should it be tuff sheath ??
Yes 🙌 it is of course Tuff sheath 👍
Is it easy to strip for scrap?
why still philips heads when torx is invented?
good point - very few electrical items use Torx and it would be an improvement.
Similar to old pre-wired conduit that I've came across a couple of times.
Is that only single insulated at the end piece?
its an equipment enclosure, not a cable.
These new ethernet cables are bananas 😅
Nice system, but I prefer Canalis rail systems (Schneider Electric). They're rated IP55, so still sufficient. That's their small system, rated for 160A/phase:
www.se.com/uk/en/product-range/1752-canalis-kn/
The advantage is, you can open an access point on the rail. Clip in the tap-off. If you want to relocate it, you remove the tap-off and close the lid. With this cable this is not possible, once you've penetrated the cable you can't relocate the box at a later time. Inside of the rails are bare copper rails, and the tap-off modules clamp directly on the copper rails but the system is actually idiot proof. Even if you open the lid, live parts are not directly accessible. Due to the lack of insulation inside, there will be no problems with fumes in case of a fire caused by halogens in the insulation of cables.
This system is mostly used in industrial installations, there are also versions which go up to 1000A. I've also seen such systems in bigger apartment buildings.
That could also be an alternative.
L2 and L3 doesn't require sleeves ?
Imagine the mess of holes when you remove them again, or have to move them.
Once you install the box, you're not allowed to remove it, i'd imagine.
@@jmonsted I would agree, it's likely a case of simply removing only the branch conductors, then installing a plug to seal the opening. But leave the splicing box in place on the flat cable.
If the IP rating of the box to cable is IP65 why have an IP68/69 as in the example of the steam cleaning in the food industry the IP65 would be inadequate, or am I missing something?
Wow. This does not look safe in several ways. But I'm an electrician in 🇺🇸 . Very different.
Errr... You can't install that charger like this and still meet the requirements according to IEC 61851, which regulates EV charging stations and installations. Each charger needs to have an RCD type B, so both AC and DC leakage interruption AND an MCB for over current protection. While the Easee charger does DC interruption by means of the charger's own contactor, it doesn't qualify as an RCD according to IEC 61008-1, IEC 61009-1, IEC 60947-2 and IEC 62423. It also lacks over-current protection, e.g. an MCB. Other chargers have integrated RCBO and digital DC interruption, which DO qualify for flat cable installation, but not these chargers.
See this video - ruclips.net/video/r1VzrJVRgLo/видео.html lots of EV chargers use the contractor as RCD function - Zappi, EO, wall box etc
@@efixx Actually no; to be compliant with IEC61851 you can use the contactor in the charger to provide the DC leakage interruption function, which means that you only need to add an RCD type A (compliant with IEC 61008-1, IEC 61009-1, IEC 60947-2 and IEC 62423). Some stations have an RCBO built in (DIN rail component) in addition to the integrated DC leakage interruption functionality - these you CAN install on a flat cable like this and still comply. But this does not apply to any of the ones you mentioned.
It seems that the comment above was entirely correct given the recent news about Easees non compliance
Is this for one unit's parking space or two? How would it be monitored?
With the Easee chargers, you can have up to 101 commercial chargers on one circuit. However, you can fix the flat cabling in and install 1 charger initially, as the demand for EV chargers grow, you can simply branch off the cable at any time to add more chargers, without the need to install more cabling infrastructure. The Easee chargers talk to each other wirelessly to balance the power load.
Looking at table 4E2A of BS7671 the It for a 16mm 90 degree, non armoured cable, installed to reference method C (three phase) is 96A. if you put 11kW chargers (16A three phase) and assume a diversity of 1 (which is likely) then you only be able to have a maximum of 6 x 11kW chargers. 11kW chargers can charge a Tesla Model S in approx 6-10hrs other electric cars are not as efficient. for a car park, people may not need full charge, but you can see how the chargers quickly loose their utility if people are only able to receive a small charge, whilst popping to the shops. the key here is managing the clients expectations. if its just a planning or property developer, box ticking exercise to increase the value of their development then this isn't really a consideration. Ultimately, my opinion is that its use depends largely on the client expectations. voltage drop will also limit its use. it would be good to see how it performs after the electrical installation is properly designed.
Thanks - The main target for this kit is car parks within apartment blocks. Our previous Easee videos explain how the power sharing works.
Remember that averaged out over all cars, each car only needs about 7kWh per day if it's plugged in daily. The "fill up from empty to full" is not the typical use case unless you look at DC fast charger stations.
Who pays for the charging? Would it be part of the building fees?
That’s down to the building owner / installer - usually these chargers are paired to a back office billing system and controlled via and app or RFID tag.
Cant see a use for it in big car parks, easier to take an armoured to a pillar, fit a rotary isolator , bobs your uncle, future proofed ... plus the local thieves would be whipping the end caps off, n-e it and kerching off to the scrappy they go ... be interested to see how those pins fair over time , used to use a Bakelite system years ago and after 4-5 years they would arc out due to the copper work hardening ... marine use? have they installed it in a car park in a port or fitted on ships? companies do love the term Marine to back up claims.. its us poor ETO's that have to put it right when the s**t hits the fan
Or travelers screwing through and hooking up their caravan supplies.
Just wanted to point out that it's not actually a charger - just a protected power supply
As ive seen a comment before, i would question the end piece, as it appears to be single insulated, unless due to the end cap being ip rated, does that negate that issue?
Every plastic enclosure is the same.
The end-pieces also have an IP65 rating
reinforced insulation, presumaby
Can you have a Smart EV charger without a smart phone for older people or won’t you be able to use the charger?
Or RV is not for older people and people not good with tec
What was the name of the clips used on the cable to the charger please? Couldn’t quite catch it. If anyone is feeling generous they could even add a link... 🙂
Review coming later this week - they are from D-Line - www.d-line-it.com/products/safe-d-adjustable-clips/
You can get them in CEF
I'm supprised nobody asked about right angle bends or Tee off. How would it do that?
The apartments my son lives in, 40% of the car parking spaces are not near a wall or pillar. the ceiling is about 4 meters. any ideas.
That configuration would likely be a problem for EV charging regardless of product. I imagine this could be run along the ceiling, then bring the conduit or branch cable down to a charge point attached to a board suspended from the ceiling at a reasonable access height.
Looks like a great system I wonder what size the flat 5core goes up to, if it’s potentially going to be used for multiple EV chargers 🔌
It goes up to 16mm2 👍
Having spoken to Idacs last week they have told me they do a 25mm2 version now 👍🏻
Not installation related but practicality related instead.
In your hypothetical (or any other multiple occupancy situation) who pays for the energy use-age? Its all well and good having a single wiring solution to easily supply electricity to multiple chargers but how do you apportion the billable electricity used to the properties? Last I checked the EV Chargers don't have that type of functionality integrated enabling them to talk to an installed Electricity meter. And even if they did the Electricity Meters installed by the Suppliers/DNO's (in the United Kingdom) don't have the ability to talk to the EV Chargers. They can barely get Smart Meters to work properly and/or communicate with the smart meter "Interface units" inside the home.........
indeed I thought the same, and given the amount of energy used most custo ers would like to be able to shop around for suppliers, so the landlord paying the bill and then billing the tenant may not go down well
I do not like it in principle. A sharp point piercing insulation and then into a live copper conductor!
Its not a system to allow live working, you should be isolating before adding in any junctions.
@@iScoTT29 Thanks for the clarification. As an ex-Brown Boveri employee I have a great respect for Swiss engineering.
Good system , but not much use if you block of flats has no covered car parking. . Most flats I've worked on the car parking spaces left open to elements. Most work done for landlords wants each tennant billed separately for the electricity they use and most tennant won't pay a community charge to charge there neighbours car. My main concern is it resistance to impact damage . If you have a block of 10 flats you going to need 20 chargers so what cable sizes are there ? Plus I would want an isolation switch between that flat cable and the charger so I could work safely to maintain the chargers . Plus I would want to supply a minimum of 30 amps per charger , if you cant and each car is charging on a few amps it going to take for ever for every on to charge there cars , so the side of those conductors aren't going to the mustard in any situation were you doing to draw a lot of currant . I've done work in factories and hotels were your often installing 35 and 50mm sq and even larger cables a small block of ten flats are going to need 20 chargers at 30 amps a piece that. 600 amps , that cable ain't going cut the mustard . Great system but in the real world limited use . People want there cars charged in the shorted possible time .
Don't worry about guaranteeing 30A to every vehicle, a lot of people misunderstand the needs to home charging, they aren't the same as long distance driving, cars are plugged in for many hours and most people's commute requires
Its an overgrown Posi-Tap 😁
Philips? That's pretty nasty. Surely Pozidrive?
It says Philips in the instructions
Salve! Sono sicura di avere fatto un grande affari, sarà e già è un vero business!!! Dobbiamo entrare in contatto..espero più presto possibile grazie! Around the world!!!
Let me guess... Gary would do anything for money 😅
not exactly everything, but he is generous with his time to support the electrical community
Scary cable
stupid simple... nice cable
These systems are great, provided that everyone in a block pays into a maintenance/ charging fund for EV's. If they don't already have something set up many of those flats are going to find their bills going up and subsidizing other residents that may have larger battery EV's etc. Thus any new build should have individual bay meters or EV chargers linked to the flat.
It's a great idea but voltage drop and total loading will be an issue as you're not going to find it able to do more than 3x 22 kw chargers if they're all plugged in over night on max demand - people will find themselves with less charge than they expected when heading off to work. Which very much feels like throwing good money at bad until the rest of the fast charging infrastructure is built out.
Hi this other video may answer some of your questions - REVIEWED: Easee EV charger - the clue is in the name! ruclips.net/video/e_aJRe5bf04/видео.html
I don't think anyone would find it acceptable for residents to by paying for other residents car charging. With 250 mile EVs becoming the standard, I really can't imagine people having much worry about having enough energy for the commute, even at 3kW you can get over 30kWh into a battery in a 12 hour stint, that's enough for an easy 100 miles. Most EVs don't have a 22kW on board charger, 7kW single phase and 11kW 3 phase is common.
Was phillips 2 a mis-speak? nobody but plasterboarders uses phillips....
That's a Swiss/Austrian thing! PCE from Austria also uses Ph2 exclusively. And if you are unaware of that...
i ALSO HATE xlpe... it's abnormal, even for swa, swa is pvc
I see phillips wasn't a typo. utterly useless to anyone with modern screwdrivers
Don't safe
useless cable type. addressing a need that isn't there The required RCD would trip every few seconds.
So we don’t need EV chargers in car parks? Why would this cable cause an RCD to trip?
Please do explain!
Electric cars are a sham.
birds aren't real
@@edc1569 you are a smart man.