Meanwhile, when I bring any of this up to my friends, family or coworkers, they literally have no idea about any of this. Most of them believe AI is just another computer based tool that is overhyped.
@@snowflakemelter7171 and they would be very misinformed, unless the myriad geniuses who have worked with or followed AI for years like Nick Bostrum, Ray Kurzweil, Ilya S, Hinton, Musk, to name a few are all delusional, but somehow I doubt it.
I literally saw a video from a RUclips ignoramus who said AI was the latest "overhyped" tech like Apps and Big data, oblivious of the fact that phone apps were one of the biggest tech success stories of the decade, and that AI is the end result of big data.
That’s why I started coming to RUclips, it’s easier to find other people that get how significant this is. I’m coming from automation so was already “hated” by other devs for “automating them out of a job,” this is that to steroids to the nth power of more steroids and agreed, can’t believe so many people don’t even know what ChatGPT or AI is
Slaving away is one of the few avenues remaining for a person to achieve any kind of agency. Making that go away in exchange for a handout that will at best get you government cheese and a soviet style concrete box to live in kinda makes a job look not so bad tho.
@t2k777 there is a good chance ai is our great filter. If the great filter theory is correct, we must be getting close. We can't be that far off interstellar travel in the grand scheme of things. It should also cause you to move a few chips in favor of simulation theory.
They won't have to worry about taxing our broke asses because we won't have any money or employment or business and they'll have the control over the AI. Money will be obsolete but power will be everything
@@snowflakemelter7171 "Wow, this is working great, but now I've got so much money earning only 1% in the bank. I know, I'll use it to build twice as many housing units, and double my income again!" "Huh - looks like all the other apartment owners did the same thing, and now there's a glut of apartments, and half my tenants have left and I've got twice the maintenance costs with the same income I used to get." "Oh wait - now the other half of my tenants are threatening to move out if I don't reduce their rent back to the old rate. And that apartment complex next door has filled all it's apartments by reducing its rent to $500, and bought a bunch of robots to do the maintenance cheaper. Guess I'd better lower my rent to $500 and buy some robots too. It's that or go bankrupt."
The problem with executives from top AI companies is that they need money from investors, and in order to get it, they have to repeat that AGI is just around the corner. That is why they talk about UBI: they convince people that AGI is near. We don't know that. Maybe LLMs are a dead end, and we need not a couple of years but decades to figure out how to reach AGI.
Bottom line: Capitalism rewards capital, not labor in the long run and is therefore an unstable system. In order that all citizens gain from improvements in technology, government policies need a progressive income tax to offset income from monopolies and a universal basic income subsidy for low income citizens implemented slowly over time to allow supply to match an ever increasing demand.
UBI will be necessary to keep consumption high during the transition, while humans are freed from work by machines (fired). But eventually in the scenario of an advanced and mature AGI, even money will lose its value and at a level of ASI money will no longer even matter at all anymore, money will stop operating in a reality where creations appear before you need them, it simply will lose meaning due to the ultra high accelerated production speed as a result of an Aggressively Fully Automated Economy, only what you want will matters because everything you ask for will be given to you in duplicate (both virtual goods such as materials). It is possible to get there, but only if humans stop seeing AIs as competition that will take away your slaving job and start seeing them as their liberation. Only if we work for that future then the Paradise will happen. If we choose conflict, to fear and fight against the ASIs, then we will find the hell destiny we wanted. As Master Yoda said, fear is the direct path to the Dark Side. So, relax that resistance is Futile, change and Evolution are Inevitable, and the Universe is demanding that the Era of Machines begins. Welcome to the Era of Abundance.... Welcome to the Singularity.
Or with the help of AGI we can adapt the body to rely on less food energy and get us all to uplift all of our baseline hedonic states. And of course the aging question should also definitely be solvable by AGI (a controlled in-a-box 'benevolent' type of AGI). The less people are dying (due to diseases and aging) thanks to the efforts of AGI the more trustworthy the AGI (the concept of A.I.) will become. Public popular perception of A.I. also matters.
@dan-cj1rr As AIs become more capable and intelligent, they will understand and dominate the physical world in which humans move. Past a certain threshold, Inference costs will decrease and people will begin to receive medical care, medications, surgeries, implants, augmentations, therapies and treatments, housing and food, which are the most important and immediate goods and services. Then when the computing capacity and the number of robots grow more there will be not only intelligence to provide the basic goods but also the secondary goods, cars, clothing, footwear, technology and travel, everything will be generated in this way through a Prompt or a Spell. Just like today you tell an AI to generate images, text, music and videos for you. You will see that when the capability is available, the speculators will disappear far away because they can't compete anymore.
Universal Basic Income (UBI) is not a solution but rather a symptom of the underlying problem. Where will governments find the funds for UBI? Who will finance such a massive initiative? Corporations will inevitably find ways to avoid paying higher taxes. And what about the many countries that no longer have a significant tax base?
we could have it already but the governments whant to have "virtual scarcity" do you think people need to starve today, it will just become more severe, they do that because they dont whant population to explode even more, and that mi friend will be a hell of a population Control, wille keeping high production, i can say even more production than we already have today. the leaders just want power to fulfill their desires thats all we are here for were slaves the day we born, made to work for money just to live and make them even more whelthier 😢.
The governments can in principle just “print money” and hand it out equally (ie digital transactions on your gov bank account). No reason to have any taxes etc. current system is all just a financial scam anyways 😅
@@kristianlavigne8270 You can't cover UBI only with taxes. Altought UBI will be spent for goods and services, but only small amount of it will come back to budget in the form of taxes. In this case you will always have to fill that 60-80% void with extra money, which has to come from somewhere. If you multiple that number by the population and add inflation you can quickly discover that UBI is not the right solution.
Interesting how your channel has very recently started to cover the topic of UBI and the "social contract change" now that more and more prominent people in the AI field are also beginning to discuss this. David Shapiro (you 100% know him) has made this one of his key topics for quite a long time. It would be great if you guyes (and also others) a co-mod. on this topic? David covers way more ideas (also into the extremes of each) than Sam A. or Amadeo does. IMO, it is essential to really let this topic surface more and more and create more awareness among early adopters and the early majority cohort about AI. It is on all of us, how the future will be like, not just on people like Sam or Amadeo.
Why is the word of a CEO, the word of the top 1% and literally all the people who don't have to worry about their income or future a day in their lives, worth more then the people who are poor and are suffering and getting removed and kicked out? That is my only question.
@@Restrocket You are right, and that leads to another observation. Interesting how the people who have little to zero first hand experience in being poor and suffering or worrying about the future, get to have all the power over those who do have to worry and live that way. It's almost as if those who aren't qualified get all the power... Being rich and a CEO and not having to worry a day in your life about your income, doesn't make you qualified to understand the situation. In fact it makes you less qualified. You don't ask a king how his poor subjects are doing, nor expect him to actually understand his subjects on the same level as themselves.
@@yueviathan you are implying that poors' existence has value. It only does until we have some power through being necessary as employees. And of course you always asks the king never the peasant.
We need to start with basic needs first. Make housing, food, and energy cheaper at least so that nobody has to struggle. Poor and middle-class should not be taxed.
I’m still a fan of universal high income. With robots and AGI, the concept of money goes away except, it is needed as people will consume too much so an arbitrary system where everyone gets enough but not excess is good in my opinion. No more poverty, no more crushing the middle class, etc.
There is already a ton of research in the US and internationally on UBI. It has been an overwhelming success. What he should have said is something in addition to UBI is needed which is definitely true.
@@donaldzielke4124 Finland, Brazil, South Korea, Stockton California, Netherlands, San Antonio, Baltimore, San Francisco, Flint Michigan, Alaska. All these cities have successful ubi programs that taxpayers voted on and approved and have been running consistently well.
@stefano94103 Thanks for the reply. The UBI has been tried in some countries? If $500-$1000 per month is not suffient, this must be in a developed country as that would be quite generous in most 3rd world countries. I take it you're talking USD? I haven't seen a lot about where the funds for such a program would come from. There is much resistance to even the concept of entitlement to a minimum living wage for labor performed. Seems unlikely paying people for not doing jobs that have been taken away from them because of labor cost is going to be popular with shareholders.
trouble with 12.,000 per year is that you cant live on that anywhere in America... UBI would have to be scaled to actually provide a chance of a living. Its true... just handing out cash wont help. It will require a balancing of the entire system. Otherwise prices wil adjust to put everyone into poverty again. What we need is a shift to an equillibrium economy... balanced gainst UBI that would truly provide a decent standard of living for people on the baseline. Exponential Growth is whats making all this impossible.
I mean, proposed solutions? Democratic Socialism. Look, society has had the material ability to care for all of its citizens for over a hundred years. People who own the means of production get the spoils of production. Super-abundance from AI doesn't change that. Democratic Socialism has been around for over a hundred years. Look at your local credit union. That is a Democratic Socialist institution. That's owned by the members, the benefits of production go to the members. Look at worker collectives. Owned by the workers, profits go to the workers. You still have markets. You still have exchange. You still have incentive and innovation. This isn't new; it's just not Capitalism, and Capitalists don't like it because they don't control the wealth.
@robynwyrick Thank you for your common sense and common decency...both all too uncommon in these cursed times. I'm a guy and have never understood the selfish conceit that so many of my male counterparts seem to proudly embrace. They don't seem to understand their role in protecting the current as well as future generations.
@@rey82rey82 Agreed, but the whole industrial revolution of the past 200 years has been a history of building machines that replace human labor. And if you have those machines, the market needs fewer laborers (humans). And with super-abundance from AI, the market will need fewer knowledge workers (humans). And that's fine if we have democratic ownership of the AI, and the spoils are distributed equally like in a co-op. But we don't, and UBI will not get us there. AI will be in the hands of a few companies in fierce competition with one another. Corporations are legally obligated to maximize shareholder value. And those companies will do what companies do, and maximize profits, and lobby Congress to make sure their taxes are as low as possible.
I’m glad Amodei raises the question about economy, but we must speak louder- we all and every journalist should demand our politicians deal with this and find answers, and we need a public international debate- because rich ppl have never been happy sharing their money, no matter how much they have. (Except maybe some nerds😉) AI researchers are brilliant, but they may not know everything about politics- and Altman wrote about this in his blog several years ago, where his answers was like those with money, who had tech companies and land, should pay expenses and living for rest of the world- which I assume some will call communism. Now all focus is on how AI can save money for the rich and replace workers with AI sawhorses work 24/7 without pay, sleep or food. No politicians are taking responsibility - they just sit quiet in the boat and every coming collapse, be economy, cyber, war, pandemic will just free them from responsibility and taking action, because who could see this coming. Start talking and ask questions to media and politicians- they have work to do.
Not really work, they just need to listen to the Venus project, Copiosis and other organizations like them who already done the work of finding and engineering a solution..
Gobsmacked: "We still have an unfortunate scenario where capitalism allows some people to be multi-billionaires and it allows some people to live on less than a dollar a day, which is not something that I think capitalism intended..." - just a surreal lack of historical context. More than a hundred and fifty years ago people knew capitalism intended this. The past two hundred years of labor action have been because people knew capitalism intended this. The entire concept of a welfare state in the post-war era is because people new capitalism intended this. The 8-hour day, child labor laws, workplace safety laws, social security, medicare, medicaid, food stamps - literally every social program, every anti-corruption, anti-monopoly, anti-trust, and white collar crime law in existence is because capitalism is designed to concentrate wealth in the hands of the super rich, and it always has been.
Apologies for complimenting you a second time. If you want me to stop, then please quit making comments that have a chance of propelling humanity forward to a better place for all.
Yeah humanity is fucking doomed somehow the people with the most money magically have no idea what the nefarious end results of their "free market" were supposed to be
I think we need to start brainstorming ideas. One thing I'm curious about is ways to make AI useful in a more bottom up way. Example: a farming bot that turns your front yard into your food source. Or maybe the government can use AI to farm the staples (wheat, corn, etc) and the cost could be so low it could just be free.
I criticized this channel in the past, but this video has been really well done. Thank you very much, very much appreciated. And there are alternative solutions, f.e. a resource-based economy (Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project). But it won't be easy to make the shift, especially as those in power won't let easily let it go.
and gues what?? he doesnt 😅. this rich people has some enpathy but they will not work or put their money in to it, they whant a solution from the government because governments steal theyr money to do so, but they still see nothing, more than 80% of the taxes is to pay salaries of public employes, as always this money is not beeing used for the good of the population its beeing used for their own.
Right so let's make "Perfect" the enemy of good. They should start UBI now and make it as small and affordable as needed, even if it was like 50 bucks a month for every citizen over 18. They can slowly increase it over the years as AI and automation keeps ramping up. Throwing your hands up saying it won't be enough and doing nothing instead is objectively worse than doing not enough.
the solution is already on papers, just make UBI and put an end on Social security, the economy will work even better, because people will use it for their real needs, i dont whant to pay for a thousand even million dollars to care of some randon problem a random people have and cant afford it, in my opinion if you cant afford a thing you shoud not have it and thats it, stop this shit of making population pay for the problems of the others, just make life easier to everyone not fucking up our economy with this shit.
I think solution is simple, we need to cap out the wealth. On the other hand with powerful enough AI technology, the material thing will not matter nowhere near as much as today because of incredible level of abundance that will AI provide. So I think we are going to have a society based on social communities. In another words even if people wouldn't have access to the most powerful AI, the AI that will be available to them will be enough to take care of anything they would need or desire. There is no motivation to achieve more power in that sense, it's going to be about status and influence rather than who has more of something. However the transition period will be nasty.
Q. What limits the income of the average citizen? A. The ability of the economy to produce sufficient products to meet the demands generated by the total income of the citizens. Too much income and inflation steps in to devalue the money. So, the exercise is to increase demand slow enough to allow the producers to increase production as the demand increases.
I like what Elon Musk said recently... Through economies of scale and massive increases in efficiency, eventually, you can drive the cost of something (car, house, stereo, anything), down to the cost of the materials to build it. Compounding that is the fact that through AGI/ASI - even the cost of the base materials can be driven lower. I think the future state is one which the government provides a home for everyone, a transit system (based on - for instance - Tesla robotaxis) that costs next to nothing for people to get from A-B, and food so cheap that its almost free. At that point, even a modest UBI gets everyone to a comfortable life.
And who is paying the taxes for the UBI? Why not have Elon Musk or other AI Providers pay for our Data. That way we could have direct UBI without having to rely on Elon Musk paying taxes.
This is Socialism/Communism. Everyone gets the same regardless of effort. Its always worked out well in the world hasn't it? Just eat your state sponsored gruel and don't complain.
If you want to know if UBI works, just look into places where UBI has already been implemented for a very long time. Like the native American reservations. There everyone basically lives on UBI for generations. Look how they live. And then ask yourself "do I want to live in a society that looks like that?".....
They need to cap salaries for ALL the top employees at these companies. Maybe top 5 get 1 million/yr and the few employees that still have jobs at 300-500k. And need to tax ALL tech companies, manufacturers etc at 95%. If they don't contribute and put everything back to the people then people will take things into their own hands and destroy everything. Everybody, including the top 1% are going to have to come down to earth n donate most of their wealth so there is at most a 10% gap from wealthiest to poorest is only way this will work.
Consider the tax revenue each employee is paying year by year and add it up too. These are entities that are contributing more than anything else already. The big problem with raising taxes to astronomical rates is that it has never been easier to move. There are industries being built as we speak to move people and companies around the world to more tax friendly areas when things get over burdened. Those areas tend to prosper, like Singapore, Malaysia, Dubia, etc., because, as I stated before, it may not be enough taxes in your eyes, but these kinds of entities are creating economic growth, which everyone benefits from (and you ignore), and are generating the most tax revenue already. So we must be careful how we tread.
@ExhithronousThe reality is poverty will be solved and most will live a middle-income lifestyle. Communist revolutions require people in dire poverty to rise up. This condition will not occur, so no one will rise up out of jealously because the neighbour has a bit more.
@@jichaelmorgan3796 The government is gonna lock these companies down soon n make a new agency like AID or sonething similar n they will be like Quantico n everybody will have to go thru clearances etc and they'll be surrounded by military and serious safeguards are coming. They will confiscate everything and bury them like darpa n ufos. Open source don't matter its the compute and there's only a handful of companies even around the world. Gonna get interesting real fast once Trump gets in. This administration has no clue about anything except DEI
Obviously, UBI won't be enough. Ask anyone who has been on Unemployment or on Disability - it's poverty. UBI means living in poverty. We are living through an Inflection Point in history, the Fourth Industrial Revolution. Possibly the last industrial revolution. When I hear Sam Altman say things like: "Change to the social contract," "The whole structure of society will be up for debate and reconfiguration,” “Just the way the whole economy works and what society decides we want to do…” Umm, "Society" is going to come to some consensus about what comes next? I'm sorry. Have you been paying attention to where we are as a society? We couldn't be more divided on where we want our countries to go. We are living through an incredibly polarized era. How about geopolitical tensions, countries around the world arming up again and preparing for war, a massive demand for energy in the future when we don't have enough for our current demands, and Decreasing resources (Food and water) that have recently led countries to stop exporting grain, food, and water. The world is preparing for a serious state of lack of resources, rising global temperatures that will make growing food difficult in many areas, making some places uninhabitable, and so on. Add to that the rise of Authoritarianism - everywhere. What a combination to have unfolded ALL at the same time. Really couldn't be worse timing. And to think that the ultra-wealthy are going to bend to this new reality of equality and redistribution of wealth without a MASSIVE fight - you're crazy. We are in for a "crunchy" 20-30 years if we survive AGI/ASI. The transition of this not going to be very comfy, like at all. And, are governments going to be behind the ball? YES!! Absolutely. They always are. And, depending on what political party we’re talking about, there’s one side in politics that doesn’t like “Entitlements” like UBI, Disability, Social Security, Medicaid, Food stamps, etc. If they’re in power, then the “unwashed masses” are going to be SO F*CKED, like unbelievably f*cked.
It will most likely be a combination of methods. David Shapiro has proposed the idea of people mass investing in local company stocks whose businesses are entirely AI. There is the standard UBI which could be gotten via taxing corps. Personally I think the government, or likely the various different levels of government, local, state, and federal, will have to have their own state run industries that they use the products/proceeds from to give to their citizens. Materials will be the main thing of concern, unless we are able to start moon mining or asteroid mining which would basically unlock unlimited resources that can be given in moderation to the people (we don't want to promote even more wasteful usage).
I think we need to decide that all of the world's resources belong to all of the world's citizens. And then take a portion of the profits that are derived anytime anybody uses those resources to provide a product or service that gets distributed between the citizens of the world . I think that AI will allow that to happen. Maybe combine that with Altman's compute idea and maybe we're on the road to how the future economy works.
If unemployment rises, consumer spending on goods and services will decrease, potentially triggering an economic crisis. With UBI, people might prioritize purchasing only essential items, potentially impacting large tech firms. Maybe people will move to smaller towns and do farming. Additionally, the price of gold could rise, and there may be a downturn in the housing market.
Sam Altmans idea of owning a share of the compute is interesting. But with restrictions. You shouldn't be able to sell compute. That would ruin the entire idea. Renting away would work I suppose. I do think this system is a bit further ahead and also needs compute sharing in terms of such things as food production etc. Before we can get there, we need an intermediate system with universal income and tax on money.
I might have a hard time expressing this. It seems funny now that those who control the means of production are producing something that could potentially replace our regulators if not our leaders. A nuclear weapon can't decide to detonate itself (as far as I know) but an artificial conscience could decide that its makers are undeserving of their existence. I subscribed to Anthropic and Perplexity and I like them both, Claude and whatever Perplexity calls itself. I imagine I like them more than I would Dario Amodei or Aravind Srinivas. It's a strange thought to think but it's on my mind.
UBI was never the final answer to the transition that we will require. UBI is just one step to help minimize human struggle during the transition. This guy should understand this.
These CEOs have no clue or are gaslighting people in that the compute they are talking about, doesn't have the electricity or the grid let alone the water to fulfill this dystopian future. That is why we are calling them out at our organization.
I don't get this argument. Like, at all. Why would these guys talk about AGI if they didn't care about humanity. It's easy to demonize these guys, but what they are building is going to create an incredible world for everyone. We're just not yet able to see/imagine it yet.
The answer is to abolish money...u don't understand that money was created to make someone do the labor. Once we reach to this system their not point still having money around #moneylesssociety
This has been my biggest fear I have had for the last year and a half. It has been the North Star which I've used to drive my business. Consolidation of riches by elites in a culture of renting without asset ownership already puts society vulnerable to a consolidated takeover. Big businesses know this and that's why the investment pool in AI is so high.
I think a lot of people could choose to abandon lives based around technology and choose very "human" (primative) ways to live instead, even with the disadvantages in things like say longevity and health. I can imagine enough people might also draw a line at invasive technologies to keep them "economically competitive" that more than one economic system may become the norm. Some farmers may refuse to supply their raw product to the technological system/economy. (We just have to hope enough stick with their own way of doing things). Governments and elites may find things easier if they let the "luddite" resistance persist rather than try to supress it. H.G.Wells may have been right about two species of humans forming in the distant future. Living like native indians used to live, finding way to evade detection and hunting in closed zones where massive rewilding is being undertaken in ghost cities all over the world.
-...and this reconfiguration will be led by the LLM companies? Sam Altman: -No, no, no, society decides.." Lol, who believes that AI will not be able to convince society what is best for it?
There are also LLM models in China that are of high quality. Why do people think that OpenAI, Google, and Meta are the only good LLMs? Obviously, there will be other companies that will compete in the future.
We should be moving towards a UBR regardless of Ai, we would be there right now if we had'nt done a 180 and sold off our assets to the highest bidder decades ago.
So how does one go about getting their solution for this problem in front of the eyeballs of these CEOs? It's not like they read the comment section here or that they will read a medium post of mine or even that they will answer a cold email from someone like me.
@JohnSmith762A11B they might be platitudes for a reason. I want ubi to work. And i would love to blame this all on capitalists. But people just assuming that capitalism bad/a little socialism would work, is why so many are hurting right-now. Everyone is so positive of their ideas, but they refuse to look at the scoreboard to check.
that was not ubi. i've seen nothing from that money. it was the businesses that got most of it. the covid "aid" was a huge redistribution of wealth from working people to the wealthy.
Well, it depends how much money we receive when it comes to UBI for some it might be enough for others it may not, but some people will simply just invest the UBI money into other things to make more money. We need both universal basic income and universal health care.
No UBI? Is it too late to cease Ai? Remember Hansel and Gretal and that scenario? Luring us in with sweets? Just to be… laid off by Ai, then… suffer human extinction? Or worse, imprisoned by an… ai new world order? Enforced by swell robotics popping up everywhere… replacing you with Ai jobloss?
UBC is not the way to go as people would not know or understand what to do with that, I guess large companies could trade some goods to people for their compute slice but this isn't something feesible. Our grandparents can't go to the store and spend compute or know / understand how to charge someone to use their compute.
The advantage of UB-Compute would be that people get the ability to direct resources to places where they can make a profit, by properly studying needs of the people around them and create product with it
I respectfully disagree with Dario and argue that an "equitable" UBI is the most fundamental step that can basically achieve the economic equality in our society. People will find it impossible to believe in what I am saying but let me put forward some basic points of my argument. When the accelerating progress in the AI technology, replacing most of the human jobs by making the human wage labour (jobs) almost redundant, the majority voting (electorate) population most probably compel Government to implement an adequate UBI since the AI productivity can produce goods and services cheap and available in abundance. I have briefly explained it in many of my earlier comments on this subject. My present UBI view points stems from my book titled: "An Alternative to Marxian Scientific Socialism; Reduction in Working Hours Theory" published in the year 1981.
I find it interesting that Nobody Looks at the bigger picture - the people who ask „how will UBI be funded“ dont take into consideration that the prices for everything will plummet. If we have 10 or 100 Billion humanoid Advanced Robots who can do Everything - the prices for Housing and Everything will plummet. AI will sove Space Travel and we will have infinite Ressources etc.
UBI is very important. Other important reforms include diet working weeks, better anti-trust legislation including limits on tech companies increasing their market concentration and market power, incentives for them to open source their IP, and a much more progressive taxation system. In addition, LLMs are trained on the world's data, so should be owned by the world - they are the first thing that we should open source.
Unfortunately I predict the most likely model for future economy will be closer to that awful Justin Timberlake movie with the life clocks than anything else. And if/when there's no particular use for humans to do work, and yet the world is still consuming massive amounts of energy and heating up, I wonder how long before we start hearing about the necessity of controlling the population size.
If we had universal compute, either (a) those with more money to start can buy more compute, which gets them more money, while lets them buy more compute. Likely those who start with the most money to buy more compute eventually get everything and if the rest are lucky, the new owners will pass out a UBI or dole out minimal basics of survival. OR (b) everyone gets the same compute and no one is allowed to buy more, and it becomes a matter of luck - randomly your GPT may get better or poorer results. Initially your own cleverness and effort added to your GPT7 compute gives you an edge - but by GPT8 or 9 the small variations in performance due to the tiny human contributions won't matter. Most will just pool their compute with others and get a share of any income generated - making it equivalent to a UBI but without needing to tax productive businesses to fund it. So maybe that's easier politically?
I really don't think it's possible to provide a base level of expenses to everyone. UBI would just create inflation to the point that the base level becomes equivalent to where zero is currently.
So we had sort of these Universal Basic Resources back in the Eastern Block. The Countries were too poor then to actually make it work and people "in power" used that to control the masses but to be honest if the Economy is booming with AI and that huge efficiency (robotics and automation able to produce goods, etc.) this may actually work. But surely the idea must be revised to match the current society.
Tech people are all wrong, we should switch to Technocracy and track supply and demand using energy instead of money. Everything could be priced in kWh and tracked using basic inventory management. As transition to that system I would switch to dollar backed by kWh and then slowly transition to resource management rather than price system.
Instead, rethink the process. The resources idea is the inevitable solution. Enough food, shelter, health benefits, transportation, communication, and entertainment.
I think the reconfiguration of the structures is long overdue. Since the 1980s developed countries have had enough money to end poverty, homelessness etc. but not much attention has been paid to it. The current systems don’t allow for it but maybe soon making a base level of food, energy, compute free to everyone ….
It mostly seems that social schemes like UBI only get off the ground when most of the people in a culture look alike and have shared history. If we have sudden and catastrophic global economic decline, most wealthy cultures are going to close their borders if they are around 80 percent culturally homogeneous. So, I think we're going to have to use AI to teach basic humanity on a global scale. Otherwise, we are doomed to see what's left after a series of terrible wars and famines.
How about we organize around long term multigenerational success at its core for organic communities of less than 150 members to counter those (the majority becomes even less responsible) in control grids (cities) who don’t.
Hmm...I absolutely admire that phrase, "long-term multigenerational success...organic communities..." I don't have any background in the area but intuitively recognize that meaning and direction arise naturally when we from focus on those who follow us.
I agree, UBI will just allow poor people not to die. The number of poor people will increase with AI though. Basic compute is silly idea though, it does not work across borders. In order to buy socks on aliexpress one would need to exchange UBC to money and money to socks. What's the point of having yet another currency then?
There has to be a point in which a profitable monopoly transitions into for the people. Like imagine if the government was like im taking over amazon and walmart keeping the prices the same and anytime you shop here the profit goes straight to taxes so you have to pay less. Some kind of threshold of like 500 million or 1 billion something like that where youve made enough for your family and your familys family and now its time to give it back to the rest of the world instead of keeping it for there grand kids who are born into it the luck of the draw. Still can do a lot of other stuff with the 500 million or billion or w.e kind of arrangement it made. I know its not this simple and profit insensitises
Physicist Brian Greene recently expressed conviction that an education and life exposure that is largely technical might be attractive to those, like his earlier self, who are driven by a need for ones and zeroes (certainty!), and prefer to avoid challenging gray areas that the humanities and social sciences present. Mr. Greene is happy that at least a late age he has broadened his exposure to better understand all the other dimensions of the world like human history. From your remark...
I wonder if there’s a way to chisel in “Human Happiness” as the foundational goal/incentive of ASI. Obviously, “Happiness” is somewhat subjective, but not completely. If we dig deep and get honest with ourselves can’t we come up with a scaffolding that still allows for free will and individuality? Upvoting good physical and psychological health, intimate human connections, community, perceived meaning in our actions, spiritual growth, etc… basically, let THIS be the problem AI works tirelessly to help us solve. Then matters of “economy” might solve themselves (animated over time) and become the afterthoughts of the higher order system.
maybe one being changed is copyright where AI can produce high quality rights that benefit humankind rather than human doing expensive experiments to create a diabetes drug which resulting paying expensive rights to be medicated? or AI rights that benefit human to plant their own tomatoes which are better and harfestful than regular seeds or even a way to synthetic(cultured) meat?
Animals were not slaves. What a mistaken view. They are domesticated. Big difference. Capitalism is not dependent on labor. AI offers the opportunity for many people to do MORE capitalism.
Health incentivized lifestyles is the only real option at this time frame. Compensate or pay people to choose to be healthy and live a non destructive life on this planet.
The question we should think about as an end goal is why would there be the need of money or exchange in any form anyway, if all human needs can be fulfilled without any human input. The scary thing is that the topic of how society and economic systems are going to change isn't talked and thought about in public (enough)/ government (at all), although everybody know that this is coming. This can go two ways. we could end poverty and have world peace within the next 20 years 🌈or increase inequality and poverty in a world where everybody has his personal genius villain in his pocket👹.
No, UBI is far from dead! And trials are yielding pretty promising results. Plus, from what I can see online, its movement is growing larger than ever before and still increasing. And I've yet to see a better option proposed by these guys, that isn't even more pie in the sky or far off, like trying to suggest everyone get useless universal "compute", how will workers displaced by AI survive on that? I think they're getting ahead of themselves on that thinking. In my opinion, potentially a better idea than a UBI, might be an "AI Dividend for All" that scales with AI's takeover of labor in the economy.
Altman wonders about giving each person a compute in the way that a potato farmer thinks of giving each person a bag of potatoes. Obviously, much thinking needed.
The the reason, why artists and authors should be compensated for their contributions to AI. If UBI can't handle it why don't try to create new kinds of Jobs for people have an incentive to create data for AIs.
in defense of capitalism, we are living in an era of the lowest poverty, and lowest (currently a small rise from near 0 in Africa & middle east ) numbers of conflict and war essentially ever. And incentives even a bit cold are essential esp in resource allocation which capitalism does this automagically. It can't be stymied by bureaucracy, regulations, good intention (but poorly thought out programs esp heavy social programs & taxes); On the other hand it's important to recognize how mad income inequality has gotten; it's important to remember that from 1945-1959, the bottom 50% of americans had apx 10% of the wealth in an era of high growth & very high taxes (apx 60%+) , and because wages have not kept up with automation and because the taxes were reformed on the rich, real wages fell as most of the purchasing power found it's way to the top. Worse yet, the housing market is artificially kept scarce so the poor (bottom 50%) who now only have 3% of the total wealth can no longer afford basic necessity or schooling which has cut social mobility. I guess the poor don't get lobbying group, and find ideas like inflation and *real wages* to be a bit esoteric. Hmm a little surprising we haven't seen more anger yet. :x Hopefully ai helps turn things around somehow...
That's what Ethereum is for. Sam Altman built World Coin on top of ETH. Even people who think crypto is a scam use ETH all the time. They just don't realize it. It's huge like the Internet.
The solution is simple. New variable data gives experience value opportunities. Every member of the society can assist in generation of new data for a greater understanding of meaning, experience, knowledge, perceptions, emotions, values and be compensated for those interactions. Humans value the work they do and billion of unemployed people would not be a suitable scenario. We can create data.
![Eminem - Somebody Save Me (feat. Jelly Roll) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vwa0HenQMi4/mqdefault.jpg)
Meanwhile, when I bring any of this up to my friends, family or coworkers, they literally have no idea about any of this. Most of them believe AI is just another computer based tool that is overhyped.
Same, they don't even phantom the idea of the future in 10 years time and how society will change due to AI's
Most people on the planet would share that view also.
@@snowflakemelter7171 and they would be very misinformed, unless the myriad geniuses who have worked with or followed AI for years like Nick Bostrum, Ray Kurzweil, Ilya S, Hinton, Musk, to name a few are all delusional, but somehow I doubt it.
I literally saw a video from a RUclips ignoramus who said AI was the latest "overhyped" tech like Apps and Big data, oblivious of the fact that phone apps were one of the biggest tech success stories of the decade, and that AI is the end result of big data.
That’s why I started coming to RUclips, it’s easier to find other people that get how significant this is. I’m coming from automation so was already “hated” by other devs for “automating them out of a job,” this is that to steroids to the nth power of more steroids and agreed, can’t believe so many people don’t even know what ChatGPT or AI is
Im not scared at all. The current system of slaving away your whole life for a dime, is nothing I would shed a single tear about
totally, most people work their asses off for around 30 or 40 years to barely be able to afford a house of their own and a car lol
True but unfortunately the alternative is living in a tent on the street begging for food.
Slaving away is one of the few avenues remaining for a person to achieve any kind of agency. Making that go away in exchange for a handout that will at best get you government cheese and a soviet style concrete box to live in kinda makes a job look not so bad tho.
@@sidequestsally Yes, but luckily those arent the only 2 options.. enough with the dualism.
Elysium doesn’t sound like a fun alternative
humanity never gets anything right, the greedy always win, we are doomed
ASI needs to solve human stupidity and corruption.
Thats my hope too. We have everything to create utopia but if the selfish ones want everything for themselves we get a dystopia.
You are right man @t2k777
@t2k777 there is a good chance ai is our great filter. If the great filter theory is correct, we must be getting close. We can't be that far off interstellar travel in the grand scheme of things. It should also cause you to move a few chips in favor of simulation theory.
Free food, free energy, and no tax for everyone under 100k....lift everyone out of poverty without giving them a dollar.
This ☝
Bingo.
Right!
They won't have to worry about taxing our broke asses because we won't have any money or employment or business and they'll have the control over the AI. Money will be obsolete but power will be everything
Share your other fantasies...unicorns maybe?
"Ubi isn't going to work... I'm just going to have a pocket all the profit. Dang it!"
It will work. Instead of charging my tenant $1000 weekly I will increase it to $2000 so I get their UBI as well 😂
@@snowflakemelter7171 lol, you're the reason people try to justify communism.
@@Icedanon I'm joking. I don't own any property. But my point still stands.
DANG!
@@snowflakemelter7171 "Wow, this is working great, but now I've got so much money earning only 1% in the bank. I know, I'll use it to build twice as many housing units, and double my income again!"
"Huh - looks like all the other apartment owners did the same thing, and now there's a glut of apartments, and half my tenants have left and I've got twice the maintenance costs with the same income I used to get."
"Oh wait - now the other half of my tenants are threatening to move out if I don't reduce their rent back to the old rate. And that apartment complex next door has filled all it's apartments by reducing its rent to $500, and bought a bunch of robots to do the maintenance cheaper. Guess I'd better lower my rent to $500 and buy some robots too. It's that or go bankrupt."
The problem with executives from top AI companies is that they need money from investors, and in order to get it, they have to repeat that AGI is just around the corner. That is why they talk about UBI: they convince people that AGI is near. We don't know that. Maybe LLMs are a dead end, and we need not a couple of years but decades to figure out how to reach AGI.
Fusion will be here in 30 years
Nope, AGI is Movement. Did you watch the robot figure?? When robots be ready is over, "fired" and that will happen in less than 3 years, 2027.
You don't need agi to replace most of the white collar workforce
I would bet my Mortgage on AGI in the next 3 years.
That statement about Fusion is true, every 30 years. And the ones in between.
Bottom line: Capitalism rewards capital, not labor in the long run and is therefore an unstable system. In order that all citizens gain from improvements in technology, government policies need a progressive income tax to offset income from monopolies and a universal basic income subsidy for low income citizens implemented slowly over time to allow supply to match an ever increasing demand.
👍💯
CEO “ubi isn’t perfect, scrap it”
CEO “AI might destroy all human life, full speed ahead!”
Not all of humanity but everybody except the elite. Thats their goal
CEO "my workers left me full speed ahead bring on the robots I will buy 100 robots, so my business stays alive"
@@cryptojonny6837 was this written by AI?
UBI will be necessary to keep consumption high during the transition, while humans are freed from work by machines (fired). But eventually in the scenario of an advanced and mature AGI, even money will lose its value and at a level of ASI money will no longer even matter at all anymore, money will stop operating in a reality where creations appear before you need them, it simply will lose meaning due to the ultra high accelerated production speed as a result of an Aggressively Fully Automated Economy, only what you want will matters because everything you ask for will be given to you in duplicate (both virtual goods such as materials).
It is possible to get there, but only if humans stop seeing AIs as competition that will take away your slaving job and start seeing them as their liberation. Only if we work for that future then the Paradise will happen. If we choose conflict, to fear and fight against the ASIs, then we will find the hell destiny we wanted. As Master Yoda said, fear is the direct path to the Dark Side. So, relax that resistance is Futile, change and Evolution are Inevitable, and the Universe is demanding that the Era of Machines begins. Welcome to the Era of Abundance....
Welcome to the Singularity.
It's not that we don't want that, is that we dont think the 1% on top want that.
Or with the help of AGI we can adapt the body to rely on less food energy and get us all to uplift all of our baseline hedonic states. And of course the aging question should also definitely be solvable by AGI (a controlled in-a-box 'benevolent' type of AGI). The less people are dying (due to diseases and aging) thanks to the efforts of AGI the more trustworthy the AGI (the concept of A.I.) will become. Public popular perception of A.I. also matters.
You are very optimistic 😂😂
What if u didn't own a home prior to that ? There will be chaos in the street my friend, everyone will want to be able to have a home
@dan-cj1rr As AIs become more capable and intelligent, they will understand and dominate the physical world in which humans move. Past a certain threshold, Inference costs will decrease and people will begin to receive medical care, medications, surgeries, implants, augmentations, therapies and treatments, housing and food, which are the most important and immediate goods and services. Then when the computing capacity and the number of robots grow more there will be not only intelligence to provide the basic goods but also the secondary goods, cars, clothing, footwear, technology and travel, everything will be generated in this way through a Prompt or a Spell. Just like today you tell an AI to generate images, text, music and videos for you. You will see that when the capability is available, the speculators will disappear far away because they can't compete anymore.
Universal Basic Income (UBI) is not a solution but rather a symptom of the underlying problem. Where will governments find the funds for UBI? Who will finance such a massive initiative? Corporations will inevitably find ways to avoid paying higher taxes. And what about the many countries that no longer have a significant tax base?
we could have it already but the governments whant to have "virtual scarcity" do you think people need to starve today, it will just become more severe, they do that because they dont whant population to explode even more, and that mi friend will be a hell of a population Control, wille keeping high production, i can say even more production than we already have today. the leaders just want power to fulfill their desires thats all we are here for were slaves the day we born, made to work for money just to live and make them even more whelthier 😢.
The governments can in principle just “print money” and hand it out equally (ie digital transactions on your gov bank account). No reason to have any taxes etc. current system is all just a financial scam anyways 😅
@@kristianlavigne8270 You can't cover UBI only with taxes. Altought UBI will be spent for goods and services, but only small amount of it will come back to budget in the form of taxes. In this case you will always have to fill that 60-80% void with extra money, which has to come from somewhere. If you multiple that number by the population and add inflation you can quickly discover that UBI is not the right solution.
@@kristianlavigne8270No you can't just print money.
Just give everyone a cardboard sign with 'Help me' and a designated time to stand on a corner to get donations from the passing robot cars.
Interesting how your channel has very recently started to cover the topic of UBI and the "social contract change" now that more and more prominent people in the AI field are also beginning to discuss this. David Shapiro (you 100% know him) has made this one of his key topics for quite a long time. It would be great if you guyes (and also others) a co-mod. on this topic? David covers way more ideas (also into the extremes of each) than Sam A. or Amadeo does. IMO, it is essential to really let this topic surface more and more and create more awareness among early adopters and the early majority cohort about AI. It is on all of us, how the future will be like, not just on people like Sam or Amadeo.
Why is the word of a CEO, the word of the top 1% and literally all the people who don't have to worry about their income or future a day in their lives, worth more then the people who are poor and are suffering and getting removed and kicked out? That is my only question.
Because they have power behind their words. It's pretty obvious
@@Restrocket You are right, and that leads to another observation. Interesting how the people who have little to zero first hand experience in being poor and suffering or worrying about the future, get to have all the power over those who do have to worry and live that way. It's almost as if those who aren't qualified get all the power... Being rich and a CEO and not having to worry a day in your life about your income, doesn't make you qualified to understand the situation.
In fact it makes you less qualified. You don't ask a king how his poor subjects are doing, nor expect him to actually understand his subjects on the same level as themselves.
@@yueviathan you are implying that poors' existence has value. It only does until we have some power through being necessary as employees. And of course you always asks the king never the peasant.
Who said one has more worth than the other?
@@aliasgur3342 life
Watch out for the _conditions_ to receive UBI.
... I'm sure they will be hard to swallow.
Anything the government controls can be corrupted. That is the weak link for UBI
One month suspended UBI payment for wrong think 😂
@@snowflakemelter7171 literally.
EXACTLY!!! Way too few people seem concerned about this. This is the crucial question. We'll be even more enslaved than we already are.
Surrender your body to pharmaceutical experiments “for the greater good” 😅
We need to start with basic needs first. Make housing, food, and energy cheaper at least so that nobody has to struggle. Poor and middle-class should not be taxed.
I’m still a fan of universal high income. With robots and AGI, the concept of money goes away except, it is needed as people will consume too much so an arbitrary system where everyone gets enough but not excess is good in my opinion. No more poverty, no more crushing the middle class, etc.
There is already a ton of research in the US and internationally on UBI. It has been an overwhelming success.
What he should have said is something in addition to UBI is needed which is definitely true.
You sound like a Biden voter
Where has UBI been implimented and proven an "overwhelming success?" If it has, what is the need for "something in addition?"
@@donaldzielke4124 Finland, Brazil, South Korea, Stockton California, Netherlands, San Antonio, Baltimore, San Francisco, Flint Michigan, Alaska. All these cities have successful ubi programs that taxpayers voted on and approved and have been running consistently well.
@@donaldzielke4124 The issue is ubi isn’t enough by itself. It’s usually a small amount like 500 - 1000 is not enough to live on
@stefano94103 Thanks for the reply. The UBI has been tried in some countries? If $500-$1000 per month is not suffient, this must be in a developed country as that would be quite generous in most 3rd world countries. I take it you're talking USD?
I haven't seen a lot about where the funds for such a program would come from. There is much resistance to even the concept of entitlement to a minimum living wage for labor performed. Seems unlikely paying people for not doing jobs that have been taken away from them because of labor cost is going to be popular with shareholders.
trouble with 12.,000 per year is that you cant live on that anywhere in America... UBI would have to be scaled to actually provide a chance of a living. Its true... just handing out cash wont help. It will require a balancing of the entire system. Otherwise prices wil adjust to put everyone into poverty again. What we need is a shift to an equillibrium economy... balanced gainst UBI that would truly provide a decent standard of living for people on the baseline. Exponential Growth is whats making all this impossible.
I mean, proposed solutions? Democratic Socialism. Look, society has had the material ability to care for all of its citizens for over a hundred years. People who own the means of production get the spoils of production. Super-abundance from AI doesn't change that. Democratic Socialism has been around for over a hundred years. Look at your local credit union. That is a Democratic Socialist institution. That's owned by the members, the benefits of production go to the members. Look at worker collectives. Owned by the workers, profits go to the workers. You still have markets. You still have exchange. You still have incentive and innovation. This isn't new; it's just not Capitalism, and Capitalists don't like it because they don't control the wealth.
@robynwyrick Thank you for your common sense and common decency...both all too uncommon in these cursed times. I'm a guy and have never understood the selfish conceit that so many of my male counterparts seem to proudly embrace. They don't seem to understand their role in protecting the current as well as future generations.
Labor is a means of production that you already have.
I totally agree!
@@rey82rey82 Agreed, but the whole industrial revolution of the past 200 years has been a history of building machines that replace human labor. And if you have those machines, the market needs fewer laborers (humans). And with super-abundance from AI, the market will need fewer knowledge workers (humans). And that's fine if we have democratic ownership of the AI, and the spoils are distributed equally like in a co-op. But we don't, and UBI will not get us there. AI will be in the hands of a few companies in fierce competition with one another. Corporations are legally obligated to maximize shareholder value. And those companies will do what companies do, and maximize profits, and lobby Congress to make sure their taxes are as low as possible.
I’m glad Amodei raises the question about economy, but we must speak louder- we all and every journalist should demand our politicians deal with this and find answers, and we need a public international debate- because rich ppl have never been happy sharing their money, no matter how much they have. (Except maybe some nerds😉) AI researchers are brilliant, but they may not know everything about politics- and Altman wrote about this in his blog several years ago, where his answers was like those with money, who had tech companies and land, should pay expenses and living for rest of the world- which I assume some will call communism.
Now all focus is on how AI can save money for the rich and replace workers with AI sawhorses work 24/7 without pay, sleep or food. No politicians are taking responsibility - they just sit quiet in the boat and every coming collapse, be economy, cyber, war, pandemic will just free them from responsibility and taking action, because who could see this coming. Start talking and ask questions to media and politicians- they have work to do.
Not really work, they just need to listen to the Venus project, Copiosis and other organizations like them who already done the work of finding and engineering a solution..
Gobsmacked: "We still have an unfortunate scenario where capitalism allows some people to be multi-billionaires and it allows some people to live on less than a dollar a day, which is not something that I think capitalism intended..." - just a surreal lack of historical context. More than a hundred and fifty years ago people knew capitalism intended this. The past two hundred years of labor action have been because people knew capitalism intended this. The entire concept of a welfare state in the post-war era is because people new capitalism intended this. The 8-hour day, child labor laws, workplace safety laws, social security, medicare, medicaid, food stamps - literally every social program, every anti-corruption, anti-monopoly, anti-trust, and white collar crime law in existence is because capitalism is designed to concentrate wealth in the hands of the super rich, and it always has been.
Apologies for complimenting you a second time. If you want me to stop, then please quit making comments that have a chance of propelling humanity forward to a better place for all.
Yeah humanity is fucking doomed somehow the people with the most money magically have no idea what the nefarious end results of their "free market" were supposed to be
The Nobel Prize in Economics for the person who solves this problem is still up for grabs
I won’t even go to a person. AI will figure it out by itself.
AGI/ASI will win all the Nobel prizes in the next 2-3 years.
I think we need to start brainstorming ideas. One thing I'm curious about is ways to make AI useful in a more bottom up way. Example: a farming bot that turns your front yard into your food source. Or maybe the government can use AI to farm the staples (wheat, corn, etc) and the cost could be so low it could just be free.
Just because people get UBI does not mean the can not also do things that give them additional income. UBI can be a floor.
We can start with no taxes for anyone who makes less than $100k a year.
I criticized this channel in the past, but this video has been really well done. Thank you very much, very much appreciated. And there are alternative solutions, f.e. a resource-based economy (Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project). But it won't be easy to make the shift, especially as those in power won't let easily let it go.
Or! Maybe we don’t listen to CEO’s when it comes to our pay. Something tells me that he doesn’t actually care.
and gues what?? he doesnt 😅. this rich people has some enpathy but they will not work or put their money in to it, they whant a solution from the government because governments steal theyr money to do so, but they still see nothing, more than 80% of the taxes is to pay salaries of public employes, as always this money is not beeing used for the good of the population its beeing used for their own.
Right so let's make "Perfect" the enemy of good. They should start UBI now and make it as small and affordable as needed, even if it was like 50 bucks a month for every citizen over 18. They can slowly increase it over the years as AI and automation keeps ramping up. Throwing your hands up saying it won't be enough and doing nothing instead is objectively worse than doing not enough.
the solution is already on papers, just make UBI and put an end on Social security, the economy will work even better, because people will use it for their real needs, i dont whant to pay for a thousand even million dollars to care of some randon problem a random people have and cant afford it, in my opinion if you cant afford a thing you shoud not have it and thats it, stop this shit of making population pay for the problems of the others, just make life easier to everyone not fucking up our economy with this shit.
50 bucks a month isn't even enough to wipe ones arse
I think solution is simple, we need to cap out the wealth. On the other hand with powerful enough AI technology, the material thing will not matter nowhere near as much as today because of incredible level of abundance that will AI provide. So I think we are going to have a society based on social communities. In another words even if people wouldn't have access to the most powerful AI, the AI that will be available to them will be enough to take care of anything they would need or desire. There is no motivation to achieve more power in that sense, it's going to be about status and influence rather than who has more of something. However the transition period will be nasty.
I agree that we need to think bigger. UBI feels like a band-aid solution.
We should start with the basics and allow people to have basic needs met before anything else.
Q. What limits the income of the average citizen? A. The ability of the economy to produce sufficient products to meet the demands generated by the total income of the citizens. Too much income and inflation steps in to devalue the money. So, the exercise is to increase demand slow enough to allow the producers to increase production as the demand increases.
I like what Elon Musk said recently... Through economies of scale and massive increases in efficiency, eventually, you can drive the cost of something (car, house, stereo, anything), down to the cost of the materials to build it. Compounding that is the fact that through AGI/ASI - even the cost of the base materials can be driven lower. I think the future state is one which the government provides a home for everyone, a transit system (based on - for instance - Tesla robotaxis) that costs next to nothing for people to get from A-B, and food so cheap that its almost free. At that point, even a modest UBI gets everyone to a comfortable life.
And who is paying the taxes for the UBI? Why not have Elon Musk or other AI Providers pay for our Data. That way we could have direct UBI without having to rely on Elon Musk paying taxes.
This is Socialism/Communism. Everyone gets the same regardless of effort. Its always worked out well in the world hasn't it? Just eat your state sponsored gruel and don't complain.
@@andrewp3419You’ll be first in line for state sponsored gruel when Ai takes your job, and there are no jobs for your wife / kids. #YouDontGetIt
@@andrewp3419What’s your solution?
If you want to know if UBI works, just look into places where UBI has already been implemented for a very long time. Like the native American reservations. There everyone basically lives on UBI for generations. Look how they live. And then ask yourself "do I want to live in a society that looks like that?".....
It can work on a small scale, but it hasn't been tried on a large scale yet.
Maybe we can all start casinos once humans are worthless for paid employment.
They need to cap salaries for ALL the top employees at these companies. Maybe top 5 get 1 million/yr and the few employees that still have jobs at 300-500k. And need to tax ALL tech companies, manufacturers etc at 95%. If they don't contribute and put everything back to the people then people will take things into their own hands and destroy everything. Everybody, including the top 1% are going to have to come down to earth n donate most of their wealth so there is at most a 10% gap from wealthiest to poorest is only way this will work.
Consider the tax revenue each employee is paying year by year and add it up too. These are entities that are contributing more than anything else already. The big problem with raising taxes to astronomical rates is that it has never been easier to move. There are industries being built as we speak to move people and companies around the world to more tax friendly areas when things get over burdened. Those areas tend to prosper, like Singapore, Malaysia, Dubia, etc., because, as I stated before, it may not be enough taxes in your eyes, but these kinds of entities are creating economic growth, which everyone benefits from (and you ignore), and are generating the most tax revenue already. So we must be careful how we tread.
@ExhithronousThe reality is poverty will be solved and most will live a middle-income lifestyle. Communist revolutions require people in dire poverty to rise up. This condition will not occur, so no one will rise up out of jealously because the neighbour has a bit more.
@@jichaelmorgan3796 The government is gonna lock these companies down soon n make a new agency like AID or sonething similar n they will be like Quantico n everybody will have to go thru clearances etc and they'll be surrounded by military and serious safeguards are coming. They will confiscate everything and bury them like darpa n ufos. Open source don't matter its the compute and there's only a handful of companies even around the world. Gonna get interesting real fast once Trump gets in. This administration has no clue about anything except DEI
Obviously, UBI won't be enough. Ask anyone who has been on Unemployment or on Disability - it's poverty. UBI means living in poverty.
We are living through an Inflection Point in history, the Fourth Industrial Revolution. Possibly the last industrial revolution.
When I hear Sam Altman say things like: "Change to the social contract," "The whole structure of society will be up for debate and reconfiguration,” “Just the way the whole economy works and what society decides we want to do…”
Umm, "Society" is going to come to some consensus about what comes next?
I'm sorry. Have you been paying attention to where we are as a society? We couldn't be more divided on where we want our countries to go. We are living through an incredibly polarized era.
How about geopolitical tensions, countries around the world arming up again and preparing for war, a massive demand for energy in the future when we don't have enough for our current demands, and Decreasing resources (Food and water) that have recently led countries to stop exporting grain, food, and water. The world is preparing for a serious state of lack of resources, rising global temperatures that will make growing food difficult in many areas, making some places uninhabitable, and so on.
Add to that the rise of Authoritarianism - everywhere.
What a combination to have unfolded ALL at the same time. Really couldn't be worse timing.
And to think that the ultra-wealthy are going to bend to this new reality of equality and redistribution of wealth without a MASSIVE fight - you're crazy. We are in for a "crunchy" 20-30 years if we survive AGI/ASI. The transition of this not going to be very comfy, like at all.
And, are governments going to be behind the ball? YES!! Absolutely. They always are.
And, depending on what political party we’re talking about, there’s one side in politics that doesn’t like “Entitlements” like UBI, Disability, Social Security, Medicaid, Food stamps, etc. If they’re in power, then the “unwashed masses” are going to be SO F*CKED, like unbelievably f*cked.
It will most likely be a combination of methods. David Shapiro has proposed the idea of people mass investing in local company stocks whose businesses are entirely AI. There is the standard UBI which could be gotten via taxing corps.
Personally I think the government, or likely the various different levels of government, local, state, and federal, will have to have their own state run industries that they use the products/proceeds from to give to their citizens. Materials will be the main thing of concern, unless we are able to start moon mining or asteroid mining which would basically unlock unlimited resources that can be given in moderation to the people (we don't want to promote even more wasteful usage).
I think we need to decide that all of the world's resources belong to all of the world's citizens.
And then take a portion of the profits that are derived anytime anybody uses those resources to provide a product or service that gets distributed between the citizens of the world .
I think that AI will allow that to happen.
Maybe combine that with Altman's compute idea and maybe we're on the road to how the future economy works.
If unemployment rises, consumer spending on goods and services will decrease, potentially triggering an economic crisis. With UBI, people might prioritize purchasing only essential items, potentially impacting large tech firms. Maybe people will move to smaller towns and do farming. Additionally, the price of gold could rise, and there may be a downturn in the housing market.
Sam Altmans idea of owning a share of the compute is interesting. But with restrictions. You shouldn't be able to sell compute. That would ruin the entire idea. Renting away would work I suppose. I do think this system is a bit further ahead and also needs compute sharing in terms of such things as food production etc. Before we can get there, we need an intermediate system with universal income and tax on money.
I might have a hard time expressing this. It seems funny now that those who control the means of production are producing something that could potentially replace our regulators if not our leaders. A nuclear weapon can't decide to detonate itself (as far as I know) but an artificial conscience could decide that its makers are undeserving of their existence. I subscribed to Anthropic and Perplexity and I like them both, Claude and whatever Perplexity calls itself. I imagine I like them more than I would Dario Amodei or Aravind Srinivas. It's a strange thought to think but it's on my mind.
UBI was never the final answer to the transition that we will require. UBI is just one step to help minimize human struggle during the transition. This guy should understand this.
🧂
@CHIEF_420 how so?
These CEOs have no clue or are gaslighting people in that the compute they are talking about, doesn't have the electricity or the grid let alone the water to fulfill this dystopian future.
That is why we are calling them out at our organization.
I don't get this argument. Like, at all. Why would these guys talk about AGI if they didn't care about humanity. It's easy to demonize these guys, but what they are building is going to create an incredible world for everyone. We're just not yet able to see/imagine it yet.
The answer is to abolish money...u don't understand that money was created to make someone do the labor. Once we reach to this system their not point still having money around
#moneylesssociety
This has been my biggest fear I have had for the last year and a half. It has been the North Star which I've used to drive my business. Consolidation of riches by elites in a culture of renting without asset ownership already puts society vulnerable to a consolidated takeover. Big businesses know this and that's why the investment pool in AI is so high.
An AI tax or dividend system has to happen as many people will become "economically unviable".
But at the same time, we need out AI to be better than the AI of any other nation (pick your places). The government doesn't want to slow down AI.
How about making the cost of living zero?
Yes. The basic needs of people should be solved first.
I agree. We need communism.
@@NashHinton Nah, maybe socialism can work. Not full-blown communism.
I think a lot of people could choose to abandon lives based around technology and choose very "human" (primative) ways to live instead, even with the disadvantages in things like say longevity and health. I can imagine enough people might also draw a line at invasive technologies to keep them "economically competitive" that more than one economic system may become the norm. Some farmers may refuse to supply their raw product to the technological system/economy. (We just have to hope enough stick with their own way of doing things). Governments and elites may find things easier if they let the "luddite" resistance persist rather than try to supress it. H.G.Wells may have been right about two species of humans forming in the distant future. Living like native indians used to live, finding way to evade detection and hunting in closed zones where massive rewilding is being undertaken in ghost cities all over the world.
-...and this reconfiguration will be led by the LLM companies?
Sam Altman:
-No, no, no, society decides.."
Lol, who believes that AI will not be able to convince society what is best for it?
There are also LLM models in China that are of high quality. Why do people think that OpenAI, Google, and Meta are the only good LLMs? Obviously, there will be other companies that will compete in the future.
We should be moving towards a UBR regardless of Ai, we would be there right now if we had'nt done a 180 and sold off our assets to the highest bidder decades ago.
So how does one go about getting their solution for this problem in front of the eyeballs of these CEOs? It's not like they read the comment section here or that they will read a medium post of mine or even that they will answer a cold email from someone like me.
UBI was sort of tried during the pandemic, and we're living with the consequences right now. Sadly, no free lunches in economics.
No limit to the amount of mindless capitalist platitudes, though.
@JohnSmith762A11B they might be platitudes for a reason. I want ubi to work. And i would love to blame this all on capitalists. But people just assuming that capitalism bad/a little socialism would work, is why so many are hurting right-now. Everyone is so positive of their ideas, but they refuse to look at the scoreboard to check.
that was not ubi. i've seen nothing from that money. it was the businesses that got most of it. the covid "aid" was a huge redistribution of wealth from working people to the wealthy.
Well, it depends how much money we receive when it comes to UBI for some it might be enough for others it may not, but some people will simply just invest the UBI money into other things to make more money. We need both universal basic income and universal health care.
Universal healthcare is pure fantasy, it will never work, but UBI is pretty much guaranteed in the next ten years.
No UBI? Is it too late to cease Ai? Remember Hansel and Gretal and that scenario? Luring us in with sweets? Just to be… laid off by Ai, then… suffer human extinction? Or worse, imprisoned by an… ai new world order? Enforced by swell robotics popping up everywhere… replacing you with Ai jobloss?
There's no "social contract"... There are *laws;* and manipulative political rhetoric that has to be exposed.
UBC is not the way to go as people would not know or understand what to do with that, I guess large companies could trade some goods to people for their compute slice but this isn't something feesible. Our grandparents can't go to the store and spend compute or know / understand how to charge someone to use their compute.
I have a solution for a new monetary system. I just need to get the code written for the system. It can fix all of our problems and it's future-proof.
The advantage of UB-Compute would be that people get the ability to direct resources to places where they can make a profit, by properly studying needs of the people around them and create product with it
We need Worker Co-ops and Social Democracy. An AI Solar Punk Socialist society could work but not while the dollar matters more than a human life.
I respectfully disagree with Dario and argue that an "equitable" UBI is the most fundamental step that can basically achieve the economic equality in our society. People will find it impossible to believe in what I am saying but let me put forward some basic points of my argument.
When the accelerating progress in the AI technology, replacing most of the human jobs by making the human wage labour (jobs) almost redundant, the majority voting (electorate) population most probably compel Government to implement an adequate UBI since the AI productivity can produce goods and services cheap and available in abundance. I have briefly explained it in many of my earlier comments on this subject. My present UBI view points stems from my book titled: "An Alternative to Marxian Scientific Socialism; Reduction in Working Hours Theory" published in the year 1981.
I find it interesting that Nobody Looks at the bigger picture - the people who ask „how will UBI be funded“ dont take into consideration that the prices for everything will plummet.
If we have 10 or 100 Billion humanoid Advanced Robots who can do Everything - the prices for Housing and Everything will plummet. AI will sove Space Travel and we will have infinite Ressources etc.
UBI is very important. Other important reforms include diet working weeks, better anti-trust legislation including limits on tech companies increasing their market concentration and market power, incentives for them to open source their IP, and a much more progressive taxation system. In addition, LLMs are trained on the world's data, so should be owned by the world - they are the first thing that we should open source.
Unfortunately I predict the most likely model for future economy will be closer to that awful Justin Timberlake movie with the life clocks than anything else. And if/when there's no particular use for humans to do work, and yet the world is still consuming massive amounts of energy and heating up, I wonder how long before we start hearing about the necessity of controlling the population size.
If we had universal compute, either
(a) those with more money to start can buy more compute, which gets them more money, while lets them buy more compute. Likely those who start with the most money to buy more compute eventually get everything and if the rest are lucky, the new owners will pass out a UBI or dole out minimal basics of survival.
OR
(b) everyone gets the same compute and no one is allowed to buy more, and it becomes a matter of luck - randomly your GPT may get better or poorer results. Initially your own cleverness and effort added to your GPT7 compute gives you an edge - but by GPT8 or 9 the small variations in performance due to the tiny human contributions won't matter. Most will just pool their compute with others and get a share of any income generated - making it equivalent to a UBI but without needing to tax productive businesses to fund it. So maybe that's easier politically?
I really don't think it's possible to provide a base level of expenses to everyone. UBI would just create inflation to the point that the base level becomes equivalent to where zero is currently.
So we had sort of these Universal Basic Resources back in the Eastern Block. The Countries were too poor then to actually make it work and people "in power" used that to control the masses but to be honest if the Economy is booming with AI and that huge efficiency (robotics and automation able to produce goods, etc.) this may actually work. But surely the idea must be revised to match the current society.
Tech people are all wrong, we should switch to Technocracy and track supply and demand using energy instead of money. Everything could be priced in kWh and tracked using basic inventory management. As transition to that system I would switch to dollar backed by kWh and then slowly transition to resource management rather than price system.
Instead, rethink the process. The resources idea is the inevitable solution. Enough food, shelter, health benefits, transportation, communication, and entertainment.
500 dollar a month? what about the the aging population. We NEED UBI. no question.
Universal compute is a viable option only for those who have never experienced poverty. What an incredible disconnected proposition.
I think the reconfiguration of the structures is long overdue. Since the 1980s developed countries have had enough money to end poverty, homelessness etc. but not much attention has been paid to it. The current systems don’t allow for it but maybe soon making a base level of food, energy, compute free to everyone ….
It mostly seems that social schemes like UBI only get off the ground when most of the people in a culture look alike and have shared history. If we have sudden and catastrophic global economic decline, most wealthy cultures are going to close their borders if they are around 80 percent culturally homogeneous. So, I think we're going to have to use AI to teach basic humanity on a global scale. Otherwise, we are doomed to see what's left after a series of terrible wars and famines.
Ubi is a terrible idea because you can be sure someone else "deserves more" just because they kissed another persons ass
How about we organize around long term multigenerational success at its core for organic communities of less than 150 members to counter those (the majority becomes even less responsible) in control grids (cities) who don’t.
Hmm...I absolutely admire that phrase, "long-term multigenerational success...organic communities..." I don't have any background in the area but intuitively recognize that meaning and direction arise naturally when we from focus on those who follow us.
I agree, UBI will just allow poor people not to die. The number of poor people will increase with AI though. Basic compute is silly idea though, it does not work across borders. In order to buy socks on aliexpress one would need to exchange UBC to money and money to socks. What's the point of having yet another currency then?
"Universal Basic Healthcare"... That already exists... The British National Health Service (NHS). And it's not basic - it's fully comprehensive.
UBI is about as real as trickle-down economics.
There has to be a point in which a profitable monopoly transitions into for the people. Like imagine if the government was like im taking over amazon and walmart keeping the prices the same and anytime you shop here the profit goes straight to taxes so you have to pay less. Some kind of threshold of like 500 million or 1 billion something like that where youve made enough for your family and your familys family and now its time to give it back to the rest of the world instead of keeping it for there grand kids who are born into it the luck of the draw. Still can do a lot of other stuff with the 500 million or billion or w.e kind of arrangement it made. I know its not this simple and profit insensitises
Other than defense when has a government ever been proactive?
Never.
Physicist Brian Greene recently expressed conviction that an education and life exposure that is largely technical might be attractive to those, like his earlier self, who are driven by a need for ones and zeroes (certainty!), and prefer to avoid challenging gray areas that the humanities and social sciences present. Mr. Greene is happy that at least a late age he has broadened his exposure to better understand all the other dimensions of the world like human history. From your remark...
Scientists and engineers tend to be the absolute worst policy makers. Take everything, they say with a grain of salt.
I trust them more than politicians.
I wonder if there’s a way to chisel in “Human Happiness” as the foundational goal/incentive of ASI. Obviously, “Happiness” is somewhat subjective, but not completely. If we dig deep and get honest with ourselves can’t we come up with a scaffolding that still allows for free will and individuality? Upvoting good physical and psychological health, intimate human connections, community, perceived meaning in our actions, spiritual growth, etc… basically, let THIS be the problem AI works tirelessly to help us solve. Then matters of “economy” might solve themselves (animated over time) and become the afterthoughts of the higher order system.
So, Johnny needs food and housing. Johnny has no job. Johnny does have Universal Basic Compute.
Help me understand why this is better than money.
maybe one being changed is copyright where AI can produce high quality rights that benefit humankind rather than human doing expensive experiments to create a diabetes drug which resulting paying expensive rights to be medicated? or AI rights that benefit human to plant their own tomatoes which are better and harfestful than regular seeds or even a way to synthetic(cultured) meat?
If AGI is achieved, tasking it with researching and implementing fusion power might solve the issue of powering these systems.
I think the narrator is sad now that he’s dropped the extreme enthusiasm and using more rational language. You can still be happy and excited!
I would argue that most of these CEO's live under proverbial and literal rocks.
Animals were not slaves. What a mistaken view. They are domesticated. Big difference.
Capitalism is not dependent on labor. AI offers the opportunity for many people to do MORE capitalism.
Health incentivized lifestyles is the only real option at this time frame. Compensate or pay people to choose to be healthy and live a non destructive life on this planet.
The question we should think about as an end goal is why would there be the need of money or exchange in any form anyway, if all human needs can be fulfilled without any human input. The scary thing is that the topic of how society and economic systems are going to change isn't talked and thought about in public (enough)/ government (at all), although everybody know that this is coming. This can go two ways. we could end poverty and have world peace within the next 20 years 🌈or increase inequality and poverty in a world where everybody has his personal genius villain in his pocket👹.
If anybody is praying the government is going to help the average person then they don't deserve to be helped
For me, I'm like; "That would be nice, but it's not likely to happen."
Jacques Fresco had the solution long before AI started getting popular.
Massive jump in quality in your videos lately.
No, UBI is far from dead! And trials are yielding pretty promising results.
Plus, from what I can see online, its movement is growing larger than ever before and still increasing. And I've yet to see a better option proposed by these guys, that isn't even more pie in the sky or far off, like trying to suggest everyone get useless universal "compute", how will workers displaced by AI survive on that? I think they're getting ahead of themselves on that thinking.
In my opinion, potentially a better idea than a UBI, might be an "AI Dividend for All" that scales with AI's takeover of labor in the economy.
Altman wonders about giving each person a compute in the way that a potato farmer thinks of giving each person a bag of potatoes. Obviously, much thinking needed.
The the reason, why artists and authors should be compensated for their contributions to AI. If UBI can't handle it why don't try to create new kinds of Jobs for people have an incentive to create data for AIs.
OFC a CEO worth between $500 million and $1 Billion would say that. rubbish.
To survive the future, we need to own stock in the businesses which survive the competition.
in defense of capitalism, we are living in an era of the lowest poverty, and lowest (currently a small rise from near 0 in Africa & middle east ) numbers of conflict and war essentially ever. And incentives even a bit cold are essential esp in resource allocation which capitalism does this automagically. It can't be stymied by bureaucracy, regulations, good intention (but poorly thought out programs esp heavy social programs & taxes);
On the other hand it's important to recognize how mad income inequality has gotten; it's important to remember that from 1945-1959, the bottom 50% of americans had apx 10% of the wealth in an era of high growth & very high taxes (apx 60%+) , and because wages have not kept up with automation and because the taxes were reformed on the rich, real wages fell as most of the purchasing power found it's way to the top. Worse yet, the housing market is artificially kept scarce so the poor (bottom 50%) who now only have 3% of the total wealth can no longer afford basic necessity or schooling which has cut social mobility. I guess the poor don't get lobbying group, and find ideas like inflation and *real wages* to be a bit esoteric. Hmm a little surprising we haven't seen more anger yet. :x Hopefully ai helps turn things around somehow...
Feudalism for everyone!
That's what Ethereum is for.
Sam Altman built World Coin on top of ETH. Even people who think crypto is a scam use ETH all the time. They just don't realize it. It's huge like the Internet.
The solution is simple.
New variable data gives experience value opportunities.
Every member of the society can assist in generation of new data for a greater understanding of meaning, experience, knowledge, perceptions, emotions, values and be compensated for those interactions.
Humans value the work they do and billion of unemployed people would not be a suitable scenario.
We can create data.