It's surprisingly effective. Even if the game is P2W as long as you officially claim it's not, at least 50% will believe that the game is not P2W. I've seen it happen. Idiots will defend P2W games and claim they're not P2W to their dying breath
The "again" is what sells it. It's literally the same song and dance for over a decade. New Chinese/Korean MMO crops up, gets hyped as the savior to MMOs, instantly devolves into P2W garbage
I hate it when people associate mobile with P2W because there's nothing about being mobile that forces the game to be P2W it is definitely just the developers making it P2W and it is really possible for mobile games to be not P2W if devs would choose not to. Tarisland had a chance to make a non P2W game but they just did not choose to.
@@imkester Because there is direct market correlation to the mobile market and pay to win practices. It's not rocket science that most of not any games that have mobile cross plat end up with these practices in place, even from companies that previously did no pay to win.
@@shortcake_ruby actually it is this mentality actually that makes it P2W. People thinking immediately that mobile games are P2W so even if I want to make a game that is not P2W just because of this mentality I would be discourage not to do so because people would immediately think that it is still P2W. It is not the mobile platform that makes it P2W it is the devs and this mentality that makes the mobile games P2W
@@imkester That's incorrect. The reason why this mentality exists is because it rings true, it is because the mobile gaming market is the highest grossing gaming medium in the world as well as microtransactions. The rainbow horse from world of warcraft that was a 15$ dollar microtransaction outsold starcraft 2 WoL in profits. This current statement you just made contradicts your original argument about the fact it's up to the developer. Mow you're saying it's because of the people thinking a certain way. The answer is simple: money talks, and people like money.
First mobile game I ever played was back in 2001. It was some text adventure game, and I had always loved those adventure books where you use a pad/pen and roll dice to determine certain outcomes, so I gave it a try. I texted the number to begin the game and got a text back that was pretty standard text-adventure stuff, asking me whether I wanted to go left or right. I texted "left" and it cost me £1.50 ($3 by the currency conversion of the time). Each further text would've cost me £1.50, so I quit after one text. That experience soured my opinion of mobile games so hard and so early that it's also the last mobile game I ever played.
@@Aethelhald Mobile games have evolved a lot since then. If you want a great game that requires no money to be played and enjoyed then Brawl Stars has to be the best one imo. Also no ads.
@scrollingthru45 brawl stars isn't exactly f2p. You can easily compete with someone who's p2w, but that's if you invest in only a couple of brawlers. It takes years to max an account, or it might actually be impossible now since they just keep increasing the max levels with each update.
The problem is people want games for free. It should be either pay a subscription and no P2W or play for free and accept it. A lot of self-entitled people this last decade.
@@ploppyploppy Or as we are seeing in games like WoW, buy the game/expansions, pay a subscription, pay for cosmetics and on top of it all P2W (tokens).
The funniest thing to me is that not only did they set themselves up for failure by marketing it as non-p2w (p2w players wouldn't go to it to spend money), but they also shot themselves in the foot by trying to be sneaky about removing the marketing claims. If they had said "Effective immediately, we are removing all mentions of non-p2w to avoid confusion", they'd still leave some doubt that this change could be recent and they weren't lying from the start, only from somewhere in the middle.
Its not going to fail, its backed by Tencent and now replacing WoW in China. They are shutting down chinese WoW servers. Tencent is the chinese government backed media giant there. Im pretty sure they own Riot as well.
imo i think the director in charge of the game got fired for making the game not P2W and got replaced by someone that promised shareholders the game will be P2W. or they were threatened to be fired so they had to walk it back. no game should be F2P it just doesn't make sense when you look at how much money other games are making. whats important is how P2W it is. Lost ark for example is extremally P2W and if you dont P2W you will be discriminated against by gatekeeping. the alternative to P2w in Lost ark is making Lost ark a full time job. thats why lost ark is full of bots and very little real players
@@rjacks3284 I don't think they changed director. It wouldn't make sense from a business perspective to throw away the one who knows the most about the product you're making. Game directors have control over the direction of the game, as the name implies, but they answer to requirements made by people even higher up. So they don't have as much control as people think over things like monetization.
@@Exilum it makes sense when they advocate for F2p. a shit game that makes money is better then a great game that doesnt. why would a company the kept saying F2p suddenly back step and create so much controversy? someone got sacked
It's the consumers fault. Rs3 has like 15% of the active players of OSRS, and makes almost as much money. And the latter even has a more minor version of P2W/MTX so it's not devoid of it. Don't blame the game, blame the whale. But at the same time the generation that grew up playing games now have big boy jobs and less time. My friend's a CS engineer, makes multi-6 figures, but lives in his moms basement (literally) and hasn't been outside since Covid so almost 4 years now. Hundreds of thousands, millions, of guys like that that grew up playing video games make a shitload of money and never leave their rooms. Ofc they spend it on games and OF.
@@Rspsand07 Well I have absolutely nothing to argue here because demand determines supply and so of course the whales are the source of the problem. I've never understood how anyone can play mobile games, let alone pay for freaking microtransactions.
There are still, to this day people that pretend to not know what P2W is, even if you can blatantly buy player power via gear or other in game items, they will be like "what are you winning? I don't instantly win if I buy that stuff"
I have this with the GW2. Community screams it's not pay to win but ignore the fact that you can buy ingame currency with money. You can Buy XP BOOSTS, You can Pay for "conviences", cmon heh? Who are you bullshitting?
@@DarkReaperK97 Well, you basically proved his point. P2W means, by original definition, that you are buying significant advantages (weapons, skills, items) over other players with real money. It means you are beating other players not with skill, but with your wallet. But that definition is rarely used anymore, because people got confused and now we have guys like you who think that anything regarding progression ingame is p2w when bought with real money.
@@edelsterknecht8859 people didn't get confused. They're just unable to quit the game they love so much. The game can constantly milk them for cash and they will keep telling themselves "it could've been worse". Gamers like these are literal victims who are unable to leave their abusive spouse it's sad
@@DarkReaperK97 I said people got confused about the definition of P2W, the topic we are talking about. Why are you talking about microtransactions in general now?
huh? his 20k simps will all go to the game and spend money to be like their daddy, asmon would actually boost that games valuation to investment holding firms lol
@@slugfest513no. He definitely has the power to sway individual servers though. We’ve seen it already He can basically sway 100k or so people from giving it a go or not
They said they'd do non-p2w, crashed against reality quite fast (there's a reason business models are part of design documents, it's because games aint cheap to make and run), changed their business model, took the publisher money and decided not to say it to the public. It's quite a nefarious act.
They are tryin so hard to avoid saying their game is p2w XDD might as well say "No, you cant buy wepons, armors, crystals, gems... with cash or ingame currency." And then at the bottom of the screen with 0.000001 inch letters "but you can purchase ingame wepons, armors, crystals and gems"
The exact same thing happened in Blade and Soul, bis gems used to drop from a world boss that can be contested by enemy faction. Eventually there were rng boxes that gave the same tier or above the gem and it got increasingly worse over time.
Yep, loved playing that game. Played it everyday until those Spring Festival lootboxes or whatever they were. Still one of the most fun combat systems in an MMO.
blade and soul was sush a good game, at least combat wise, until they ruined it! They even ruined their own talent system along the way, I don't get it.
5:45 - Keep in mind, if you are planning to jump into the game to test the systems the servers do not use a queue system, they have a "total account limit" per server. The servers have hit their account limit cap thus cannot get into the game unless you are using another account or they open up the room. The idea of playing Lost Ark 2.0 with Lost Ark P2W without Lost Ark Honing sounds great and I'd be on board with that. But they didn't promise lost ark monetization, they said "strictly non-p2w" and that's where the problem is.
I was really hoping for an old school WoW clone, I figured they would go 100% f2p at least until they were ready for the live version came out and then apologetically explain that they underestimated their overhead and they would be instating a modest subscription fee. I'd pay a couple bucks a month for WoW on my phone.
im sure the director in charge of the game that wanted it to be F2P was fired. no way a company would allow this to happen when you got games making billions of dollars off predatory monetization. true F2p is a dream. and any director that peruses it will get fired
I swear, my friend and I said something along the lines of: "Did you see that new MMORPG that came out? No? It's called Tarisland. They advertise as Non-P2W. And it's Chinese. And it's mobile. Yes, it is P2W"
Also to add. Yesterday they started to ban players in the official Tarisland discord, who were voicing their opinions about the p2w situation. With things being called as acting like a 4 year old by the senior moderators they have. They are adamant on wiping the whole discord of any p2w talk.
Hot take: make a game with access to every single item through farming and add cosmetics that you can buy for money. Also make a “supporter bundle” or just a “support the studio” option. The issue is that you need to be EXTREMELY clear on what you’re using that money on and never bs the community. You like the game, you support the devs. Can’t support but love the game? Then play the game and increase the stats. Game business is so many more facets than just “sell product we rich”. Why do you think companies market through super bowl? Why do you think Coca Cola tries to force a Santa Claus commercial around Christmas? Coverage and top of mind as well as engagement are MASSIVE factors that none of these companies take into account
Only "recent" game that i've seen do this ( every item available to farm, only skins are paid dlc's o supporter package) is DEEP ROCK GALACTIC, that game gives you all that it has, from farming only. It's PvE game, dont know if that matters, tho
If you Google it, the result for the games main page still says - Tarisland is a non-P2W MMORPG on PC/mobile, featuring raids, diverse classes & builds, and a vast world for exploration.
@@jtowensbyiii6018 no capping but TL is same as WoW when it comes to endgame gear, it is bind on pick up anyways. in CBT it was basically Pay to progress faster but then when the real items dropped every one was on the same playing field.
Can't buy 100% of gear from auction. And the gear you do get from the auction is worthless since you get all of em for just doing the content in the game
@@BillyHadley you're Missing the point. In TL you buy premium currency to get gold. In WoW you buy the koebs to get gold. And don't tell me gold isnt important, because the gold sellers on WoW make a killing 😂
@@jtowensbyiii6018 You can buy gold which you use to buy gear. WoW is also P2W. Just because one game does it doesn't make it okay for the other to do it too.
Tarisland devs: "Non-P2W! P2W is forbidden!" Tencent or whichever Chinese firm actually invested to make this game: "You think it's one way...but it's the other way."
@@Svenson_IVRIOT already had LOL estabilished prior to the Tencent aquisition, and their skins monetization model was already proven to work. They even run their esports division at a loss because they know they get more skin sales from it. And besides leveling boosts to your account, what else can you make that you will call p2w? I guess champion aquisition. It's much easier to make a p2w game from the scratch than changing the business model on an estabilished titles without losing massive amounts of players. Still, at the end of the day, RIOT is still just as scummy as any other big company, if not more than most.
Remember the days in early WoW or FF11 where it took time, skill and a grind to get gear. Once you had that gear you felt this level of pride and accomplishment. This is exactly why the entire video game industry is experiencing layoffs. Games just don’t hit anymore, it all about max profits as quickly as possible. Board of directors, senior directors, etc all they are about is profit. MMORPGs and other games are in the worst state I have ever seen it. Just make a monthly subscription and call it a day. No need for all of this stuff. It’s never going to change which is sad. One day when multiple companies close down, lack of talent like coders moving away from the industry eventually this will go back to normal
What's insane is if a company such as Taco Bell blatantly did false advertisment even in the slightest bit they will have the hammer brought down on them by the government but if some gaming company or mobile game does it, crickets.
Unfortunately, this comment is right up there with the myth that all bullies are secretly depressed or abused. Reality is that many of these whales have serious disposable income. Think of the 24 year old programmer who makes over $100k and has no responsibilities outside of work (no family), and can basically spend several thousand dollars every month of their income without bating an eye or going into debt.
i wish that were true... the people losing by dumping thousands on these kinda games are a spending addicted minority, most just have money to burn ;-;
Their excuse on Discord is probably the best ive ever seen. "We didn't know its Pay2Win sorry we stop saying its not Pay2Win instead of not making it not Pay2Win 🤣"
That's why you don't get excited over any MMO type game these days. Not even when they get released. Sometimes they release something that is not P2W but couple months down the line that stuff gets added into the game.
@@roarbertbearatheon8565 Everyone is talking about this. Gaming websites, reddit... Thousands of potential players that will never play the game like myself because I hold Asmongold in higher regard than any company like Tencent.
it's not asmongold, it's spid who is promoting this game and supporting it until they introduced P2W. When they promised a non p2w concept and break that promised thats the end of it. Cosmitics and battlepass is okay but P2W on a chinese game is crazy. You dont want to play againts chinese whales experience them in Mir4 @@roarbertbearatheon8565
You forgot one important step. You buy the crystals to get the loot boxes, which may or may not contain gold. Then you can back it up with the claim, "Well technically you can spend money and get no gold. Which is proof for our claim that you can't buy gold".
@@aldawgd honestly, the p2w is different for some players. For example some people believe that paying someone to boost you, is somehow p2w.. Even if it's with ingame money, it's still not p2w. it's like ME giving knife skins in Counter strike , in exchange for ELO boost. Paying a player, to get a boost, is NOT p2w. Yet a lot of people seem to think so. Also, a lot of people think that p2w for convinience or pay for "speed" is NOT p2w as long as you can find whatever you bought from the store, inside the game as well. What is right and what is wrong? Each person has his own idea of what P2W is. For some people, since u can pay someone else to boost you, even Dota2, legue, apex or counter strike are p2w. For some others, p2w is only extreme cases like archage.
It's simple, anything that will give you advantage over other player is p2w. And I mean actions, things, items, systems, that are not accessible without spending real money at some point. So if you bought knife skin and used it as means to get boosted by other player - that's p2w, because other player cannot do this without paying real money.
@@akhsdenlew1861 Pay 2 Win is when you can spend real world money that gives you in game benefits per examples stated next. such as faster completion or stronger abilities, stats, etc. There is no opinion in this. I can have my opinion that my car is faster than someone else’s but doesn’t make it fact
This game has biased Discord Mods who using alt accounts for discussions and censore your arguments when ever they want to, its really makes no sense to stay there. Me and 6 other friends have quit ✌
Man this is depressing. I can tell how disappointed Spid is in his video and I totally feel for him. To have the rug pulled out from under you like that it's just brutal.
If we are being 100% unbiased though, the same system is used in wow and wow fans claim that wow isn’t pay to win. Being able to buy gold with real money and using that gold to pay other people to get items, achievements, boosts etc will always be p2w.
@@NamNguyen-jq1rr too true that it's a common system. But the difference here is that Tarisland claimed to be free from that type of crap and set an expectation which they then pulled a complete 180 on resulting in this kind of reaction.
Imagine making a good game with selling skins only and making a ton of money because game is fun and good. Is it really that hard? Now this game gonna milk some whales and die quickly. For me, them moving to P2W just proves they do not believe in their own game.
Just as a heads up: i don´t want to defend a game for being able to buy gear with IRL money (even if it is with extra-steps). However: i personally know AT LEAST one game (and play it actively as well) that has a somewhat similar mechanic, and it works out totally fine. BUT: this is due to the design of how buying inGame gold (the only option to get anything that is either non-cosmetic or a non-"convenience only" using IRL money) is actually done, as well as how gearing in general works inGame. I´m talking about Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 has a gemstore. that´s nothing new, it has existed since launch, and you always were able to exchange IRL money for gems, as well as having a direct trade from gems gold. However: there are distinct limitations not only based on the exchange, but by the fundamental game-design as well. - the exchange-rate from gold gems is determined by the amount of players selling gems for gold, and players buying gems for gold. So, the more amount of gems is used to buy gold, the more the price of gold increases (automatically devaluing gems, which results in very bad exchange-rates for gold bought with gems). -the exchange-model is even further supported by the massive amount of skins, novelties, and extremely frequent sales going on (especially since the "Living World"-episodes, aka "mini-expansions" in between "full expansions" MUST be bought with gems, unless you got the full package in one go, which many players usually don´t buy at once considering the full pack does cost above 100€/$). Of course, the exchange-rate fluctuates to some extent, but it has NOT EVEN ONCE even remotely reached a critical point where gems were too valuable. It has NEVER been worth buying gold with gems since its release. EVER!!! (in fact: the trend over the full lifespan of the game is a very slow, but steady increase of price for gold) -another thing to consider: Guild Wars 2 does have horizontal progression (basically meaning, instead of starting to grind out more and more better gear once you reach endgame, your progress spreads out in multiple directions instead). We don´t have a gear-spiral in the game, the best gear quality shortly after launch (ascended/legendary) is still the best gear-quality now (over 11 years after launch). So, even IF you would, hypothetically speaking, spend a ridiculous amount of gold to buy everything you can even buy for gold in order to accomplish full legendary gear, this not only would cost an IMMENSE amount of IRL money, and you will STILL have to do all the collections or tasks in order to obtain most of the gear (since only a handful of weapons are even tradeable, and armor/trinkets cannot even be traded to begin with). And for a rough calculation: one full legendary armor set does cost roughly 3000 gold, which translates to about 122€ (not accounting for devaluation of the gems-->gold exchange rate). Reminder: by buying such a large amount of gold, the amount of gold you get massivle decreases. If you use that gold to buy everything required in materials, you STILL have to do week-long, if not month-long collections to actually obtain the armor set. and your armor will STILL not be better than the one of any other player that also has ascended or legendary armor (which is just about 10% more stats than the FAR cheaper exotic, and translates to about 5% increase on a DPS-role). Considering that higher stats don´t even have that much of an impact (a skilled, experienced player can easily pull of 10 times higher dps-numbers on exotic armor against a inexperienced player in ascended legendary) this "imaginary advantage" is not only negated, you´re STILL worse because your gear (which cannot even be better than that of another player) cannot even remotely compensate the skill-difference. In fact: gear-quality is the LEAST important factor regarding your "performance" in the game. EDIT: going further into the video, i should maybe explain a bit more about how gearing works, and how difficult it is to obtain at least the 2nd-best in slot gear: after reaching max-level (always has been and always will be 80) there are a lot of NPC's selling exotic, stat-selectable gear for gold. These items are ridiculously cheap (6 gold + some map-currency per armor piece, and ~2 gold for both weapon-sets). How long does it take to obtain the non-gold currencies needed to fully equip a character this way? --> roughly 3 hours for filling EVERY slot. How long does it take to obtain the gold required to fill EVERY slot? --> not even 30 minutes of gameplay. After gearing up this way, you are basically set forever until the game shuts down. Sure, you are not best-in-slot (ascended), but as said previously, not only is the difference due to quality basically neglegible, but only 1% of the content in the game actually requires the best gear-quality. And getting the materials for these items is tied to, guess what, actually playing the game. TL:DR buying actually game-influencing items for IRL money (with extra-steps) CAN TOTALLY work. IF (and that´s the important part) there are restrictions put in place. This can be multiple things (which in the case of GW2 obviously apply), for example: -parts of gear that cannot be obtained by gold alone -parts of gear that MUST be earned through gameplay -limitations on the exchange-rate between IRL-money (gems in that case) gold -incentivizing of spending IRL-money for cosmetics over gold -regulation of the "circulation" of inGame-currencies (specifically gold) to devalue gems (dis-incentivizing exchanging gems for gold) -not putting any non-cosmetic gear into the gemstore (limiting the cash-shop to cosmetics, convenience-items or novelties alone) since PvP came up: that´s the neat part about GW2: gear does NOT matter in PvP. like... at all. PvP does use a seperate stat-system, that is independent of your stats. You can go into PvP after finishing the intro-instance, and you´ll be upscaled to level 80 and using the exact same stats as everyone else, no matter if you use white gear that doesn´t even have stats, or legendary/ascended gear. It makes no difference
Personally, I think paid currencies are, outside of just being predatory, are the same thing as counterfeit money. It takes real money from the economy in exchange for currency that can only stay were the real money was spent (and I'm willing to bet they report both the cash transactions and in-game currency as positive sales, but not for taxing purposes, making their company appear more valuable, causing stocks to be sold at a higher value.)
Counterfeit means making a fake that can pass as the original. In-game paid currencies aren't counterfeit money. It's a "1 level deep" conversion of real money into obviously fake money - fake money that the in-game economy uses. Paid in-game currencies exist for a few reasons: 1. To obfuscate the fact of how much you're really spending on the game 2. To psychologically prime you - after each purchase - to spend more as you're paying in small chunks They certainly are predatory, on that we agree on. Usually a couple of dollars/euros buys you hundreds/thousands of their currency, which is there to basically tell you that a small amount of real money converts to larger in-game paid money and that conversion in your head sticks. So each time you do it, it gets progressively easier for your consciousness to justify the purchase(s). Secondly, the fact that they price their shit higher than the actual currency sold (sold only in bundles, never direct purchases), always tells you that you have to buy more than you actually need and always have leftover. Which again, is there to psychologically "push" you to "round up" to the next item you want. And if you don't do it that often, well they still won as that leftover is the money you bought that is now sitting unused (because you didn't need it in the first place but was forced to buy it).
It's should be crime to advertise your game to not be p2w and then when it comes out it is p2w. I was hoping this was gonna be the next mmo I will put my effort into after world of kings. But another scam.
I hope they stay the way they are, for the world to finally see what it takes to have the best mmo of all. I'm 100% certain that if a good mmo launches that isn't pay to win, like 90% of the people will just play that.
@@the_Acamanthat’s what none of these companies seem to understand… there is tons of money in P2W however long run there is more money in a non P2W game that has a massive active player base because you can still sell cosmetics. Look at Fortnite…
4:22 look at all those notepads, one of them isnt saved and is titled 'day 1 blizzcon' which was 2 weeks ago... and he wonders why the pc will randomly turn off
todays mmo gaming whether its fps games or rpgs is so fucking disgusting now, people either download hacks, buy gear, buy gold but never actually play the game themselves and win it themselves. this is what pushes me to play single player games
True that at this point all these other mmos are just gaming snacks we can have till the hopeful main course arrives and then hope it's cooked properly
Ah yes, the piece of content that is being developed infinitely that people have been tricked into thinking will be a game someday. Very interesting. Even Star Citizen has something out.
The devs really tried to tell us they misunderstood what p2w means because they apparently thought p2w only means that you can buy wins on a ranked ladder, otherwise i cant understand where the misunderstanding was..
it's a big MMORPG of course they know what it means, it's just PR spin really. And the guy in the video literally asked a dev or whoever on discord on specifics about gold buying, gear etc and they said that would be wrong.
It is fun but not worth the download imo. The combat system is a little clunky, could be better. it's lacking in some random spots. Targeting and combo feels ok, more stuff needs not to require a target tho. Story and quests even seem ok. Don't feel like you missed out tho it's nothing special, I uninstalled pretty quickly. We'll see what they do with it though...
Technically you're buying other people's items from the auction house, not items straight from a cash shop, but it's still pay 2 win because you can buy the currency used in the auction house for real money. Do they really think people don't notice the bullshit they're trying to spin here?
Why is there so much confusion of P2W definition? I don't understand are people stupid or pretend to be dumbsters? P2W= !!!!!!ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!! That you can BUY with REAL LIFE MONEY!!!!! in the game, which !!!!WILL!!!! Give you advantage, whether its gambling boxes or ingame currency WITH WHICH YOU CAN >>>>>>>>BUY
It's true...you cannot buy stats. You can buy items that give stats, but you cannot buy stats. Just like asmongold said, you buy crystals, not gold, even if those crystals' only usage is to buy gold with them, you still cannot buy gold.
@@coldbreezeproductionsCosmetics are good as long as it has no added stats that makes it easier for the whales to have advantage, they'll iust keep buying sets of costumes to have higher bonus stats. This same Publisher was the one that handled Dragon Nest 2 Evolution this last August. I'm telling you, it's heavy P2W game and so different from Original Dragon Nest , it's a CASH GRAB mobile game. They left the game after lots of costumes (highest was 500 bux costume set with insane bonus stats) but full of bugs and an incomplete game. I bet they'll do the same here in Tarisland , they'll sell what they've sold in Dragon Nest 2 Evolution (VIP MONTHLY CARD THAT GIVES you advantage in stamina than F2P players , Costumes that so expensive with so many bonus stats and the only way to buy stuffs in in-game Trading House is to top up). This Publisher is a company of greedy.
Tarisland was good ( the first days) but die SOOO FAST injust 8 days... 2 days ago i was trying to do the Botanic in elite, but the game just matchmaking with bots and those bot are underlevel, u CANT KICK BOTS (bot are legal bot in this game) and the healer bot just spam the first heal all the time, people leave the party when they saw more than 2 bot in the party, so is almost impossible to play this game, boring. a total failure i dont care if i have to wait 1-5 min for REAL PEOPLE, but this bot are useless in dungeons 38+
things like this should just be straight up illegal, if they are changing something like this should force you to post this explicitly on all their social media
This has been a scheme a number of companies have been doing, they promote the game before launch claiming no P2W mechanics to get large numbers for the launch. Then gradually sneak in P2W mechanics that become more blatant in being P2W. Some companies would even promise to not implement major changes without the approval of the majority of the player base but ignore the player base if that majority is against major changes. Eve Online's community has been fairly successful in keeping devs in check. If the devs try to even sneak in something that is considered to be P2W by the community standards. The whole community will rise up in the game and kill anyone who is caught using anything from a pack that contains what is considered a P2W item from the pack (even if it can be gained normally in-game.
@@ТАДАМ-ю4ж @kechy18 Yall must be trolling lmao. You can buy unlimited gold in wow and use that gold in game to buy anything except for a world first title or rank 1 pvp. you can buy a clear for any content, pay to have the loot funnelled to you, pay for a carry in PVP, you can do anything in the game with in game gold, and you can buy an unlimited amount of in game gold for real money directly through BLizzard, that is one of the most pay to win systems in gaming seconded only by games that allow you to directly purchase stats.
this is about the same as buying bonds in runescape and nobody called osrs a p2w either, its still nasty sneaky tactics if you ask me i wont be playing this game just in principle 😂
Look this formula for games is the perfect corporate project parallel: You start a company/business, small, mostly what you're selling is an idea. (kickstarter/early access/beta, alpha, etc..) You get investors, they give their money to grow your operation because they believe you have a cool idea. (players; whales, krill) The idea is actually cool it meets the market's demands so your company grows. (right before people get to the end game, this is before the predatory system is obvious and everyone notices) Once your company is big enough to satisfy your pocket, sell the company. (the game inevitably dies because it's obvious P2W kusoge, but you walk away with pockets full of whale money)
I think people have to remember this game was originally for Chinese players, so they don't really care what we think too much. Unless players in China don't like it and call them out, don't expect anything
The best MMO I've played that don't require to be hard cash is Dragon nest, they only sell Pet (which is auto collecting drop), Gacha box (inside there is costum, mount, and bunch of junk consumable item insignificant), and cosmetic. They didn't sell high attributes item such as high end late game or special equipment, and the mount or costume only adding a very little tiny bit of stats.
The sad part is I felt like the game had potential. The voice acting and translation was horrible, but gameplay and combat was decent and the game visually looked really good for a mobile game, but the fact they lied and are trying to damage control really is just a shame.
The irony is, while listening to this whole system of gear getting and then having to switch it after new season comes, is that this just sounds like every MMO (Including WoW) where you grind for gear and then have to switch to new gear in few months when new raids come out. The people in top guilds who used gold to gear themselves out faster and push content because of it, will also be in the same situation as the whales in this game. You can also buy that gold in games like WoW. It's the same shit, but WoW Andy's would never admit it.
It's just like Diablo Immortal saying "we don't sell powerful gear in the store", but the p2w "secret sauce" is actually in the gems you put on top of the gear...
So is Albion still the best choice for a non p2w mmo? Or at least not as p2w as others? Please help I need a good mobile mmo that doesn’t have p2w features
Iruna online and it's sequel, toram online, are still the best I've seen for mobile. Adventure quest mobile version was fun back when I used to play it but that was a few years ago.
my prediction , mitm improvement included they soon sell items and vouchers that let you redeem stuff from third partys, not the official site store nor ah. so the f2p immersion is even harder to break
Thanks for reacting!
Money -> Gear (p2w)
Money -> gold -> gear (fair and balanced)
My bad for not realizing that 😭😂
shame on you man..... dragging the name of this really good gamestudio in the dirt!!! its clearly not p2w
Sorry they lied, exploited and used you into promoting their games
Great video homie! You earned a sub from me easily and probably 1000's of others!
whoosh@@Becko21
You cant earn weapons for gold... It's crazy, ppl just like to scream it's p2w to get subs and likes.
"We've noticed an increasing number of discussions in the community regarding the topic of P2W"
Brother, you were the one who brought it up
"how do we get western gamers interested in this chinese mobile game?"
"we can try lying to them, again"
It's surprisingly effective. Even if the game is P2W as long as you officially claim it's not, at least 50% will believe that the game is not P2W. I've seen it happen. Idiots will defend P2W games and claim they're not P2W to their dying breath
The "again" is what sells it. It's literally the same song and dance for over a decade. New Chinese/Korean MMO crops up, gets hyped as the savior to MMOs, instantly devolves into P2W garbage
add thicc assets, boom GOTY, profits rollin in
It changed
I've never seen such a flip flop of hype turned to absolute chaos in discord before.
F2P became P2P2W.
The old Bait & Switch. Gets em every time.
F2P = Forced 2 Pay
Why do ppl think p2convenience or p2skip = p2w? Can you buy skill with your hands on the keyboard and mouse?
@@RosefMudson1414 maybe you have skill but can be out geard which mean you can't dmg or hit a p2w is all you need to know
skill beats gear @@skadooshi8133
It being a mobile game is all you needed to know.
I hate it when people associate mobile with P2W because there's nothing about being mobile that forces the game to be P2W it is definitely just the developers making it P2W and it is really possible for mobile games to be not P2W if devs would choose not to. Tarisland had a chance to make a non P2W game but they just did not choose to.
@@imkester Because there is direct market correlation to the mobile market and pay to win practices. It's not rocket science that most of not any games that have mobile cross plat end up with these practices in place, even from companies that previously did no pay to win.
@@shortcake_ruby actually it is this mentality actually that makes it P2W. People thinking immediately that mobile games are P2W so even if I want to make a game that is not P2W just because of this mentality I would be discourage not to do so because people would immediately think that it is still P2W. It is not the mobile platform that makes it P2W it is the devs and this mentality that makes the mobile games P2W
A lot of them are literally clueless kids, but it's not much better with adults :v
@@imkester That's incorrect. The reason why this mentality exists is because it rings true, it is because the mobile gaming market is the highest grossing gaming medium in the world as well as microtransactions. The rainbow horse from world of warcraft that was a 15$ dollar microtransaction outsold starcraft 2 WoL in profits. This current statement you just made contradicts your original argument about the fact it's up to the developer. Mow you're saying it's because of the people thinking a certain way. The answer is simple: money talks, and people like money.
The moment it was said "on mobile" i knew it was going to be monetized by transactions and break their promise.
Yeah that's obvious.
First mobile game I ever played was back in 2001. It was some text adventure game, and I had always loved those adventure books where you use a pad/pen and roll dice to determine certain outcomes, so I gave it a try. I texted the number to begin the game and got a text back that was pretty standard text-adventure stuff, asking me whether I wanted to go left or right. I texted "left" and it cost me £1.50 ($3 by the currency conversion of the time). Each further text would've cost me £1.50, so I quit after one text.
That experience soured my opinion of mobile games so hard and so early that it's also the last mobile game I ever played.
@@Aethelhald Mobile games have evolved a lot since then. If you want a great game that requires no money to be played and enjoyed then Brawl Stars has to be the best one imo. Also no ads.
@@scrollingthru45 But I don't want one though
@scrollingthru45 brawl stars isn't exactly f2p. You can easily compete with someone who's p2w, but that's if you invest in only a couple of brawlers. It takes years to max an account, or it might actually be impossible now since they just keep increasing the max levels with each update.
It's disheartening to see promising games take a turn towards the pay-to-win model.
welcome to china.
The problem is people want games for free. It should be either pay a subscription and no P2W or play for free and accept it. A lot of self-entitled people this last decade.
@@ploppyploppy Western games have been selling cosmetics for a long time. No need for P2W.
@@ploppyploppyor just make cosmetics?
@@ploppyploppy Or as we are seeing in games like WoW, buy the game/expansions, pay a subscription, pay for cosmetics and on top of it all P2W (tokens).
The funniest thing to me is that not only did they set themselves up for failure by marketing it as non-p2w (p2w players wouldn't go to it to spend money), but they also shot themselves in the foot by trying to be sneaky about removing the marketing claims.
If they had said "Effective immediately, we are removing all mentions of non-p2w to avoid confusion", they'd still leave some doubt that this change could be recent and they weren't lying from the start, only from somewhere in the middle.
Its not going to fail, its backed by Tencent and now replacing WoW in China. They are shutting down chinese WoW servers. Tencent is the chinese government backed media giant there. Im pretty sure they own Riot as well.
@@seanwatts72391Yeah Tencent holds RIOTs reigns. This doesn't give me a good feeling about their planned MMO
imo i think the director in charge of the game got fired for making the game not P2W and got replaced by someone that promised shareholders the game will be P2W. or they were threatened to be fired so they had to walk it back.
no game should be F2P it just doesn't make sense when you look at how much money other games are making. whats important is how P2W it is. Lost ark for example is extremally P2W and if you dont P2W you will be discriminated against by gatekeeping. the alternative to P2w in Lost ark is making Lost ark a full time job. thats why lost ark is full of bots and very little real players
@@rjacks3284 I don't think they changed director. It wouldn't make sense from a business perspective to throw away the one who knows the most about the product you're making. Game directors have control over the direction of the game, as the name implies, but they answer to requirements made by people even higher up. So they don't have as much control as people think over things like monetization.
@@Exilum it makes sense when they advocate for F2p. a shit game that makes money is better then a great game that doesnt.
why would a company the kept saying F2p suddenly back step and create so much controversy? someone got sacked
That such news doesn't even surprise me is indicative of the state of today's gaming industry.
It's pretty common practice at this point.
It goes beyond gaming. The common "owner-class" sentiment is exploit and profit at all cost, and leave everything else behind
It's the consumers fault. Rs3 has like 15% of the active players of OSRS, and makes almost as much money. And the latter even has a more minor version of P2W/MTX so it's not devoid of it. Don't blame the game, blame the whale. But at the same time the generation that grew up playing games now have big boy jobs and less time. My friend's a CS engineer, makes multi-6 figures, but lives in his moms basement (literally) and hasn't been outside since Covid so almost 4 years now. Hundreds of thousands, millions, of guys like that that grew up playing video games make a shitload of money and never leave their rooms. Ofc they spend it on games and OF.
@@Rspsand07 Well I have absolutely nothing to argue here because demand determines supply and so of course the whales are the source of the problem. I've never understood how anyone can play mobile games, let alone pay for freaking microtransactions.
There are still, to this day people that pretend to not know what P2W is, even if you can blatantly buy player power via gear or other in game items, they will be like "what are you winning? I don't instantly win if I buy that stuff"
This makes me so fucking angry.
I have this with the GW2. Community screams it's not pay to win but ignore the fact that you can buy ingame currency with money. You can Buy XP BOOSTS, You can Pay for "conviences", cmon heh? Who are you bullshitting?
@@DarkReaperK97 Well, you basically proved his point. P2W means, by original definition, that you are buying significant advantages (weapons, skills, items) over other players with real money. It means you are beating other players not with skill, but with your wallet.
But that definition is rarely used anymore, because people got confused and now we have guys like you who think that anything regarding progression ingame is p2w when bought with real money.
@@edelsterknecht8859 people didn't get confused. They're just unable to quit the game they love so much. The game can constantly milk them for cash and they will keep telling themselves "it could've been worse". Gamers like these are literal victims who are unable to leave their abusive spouse it's sad
@@DarkReaperK97 I said people got confused about the definition of P2W, the topic we are talking about. Why are you talking about microtransactions in general now?
"Visa became the main driver of the in game economy" is a worrying series of words.
Asmon casually planning to kill a game, I like it
huh? his 20k simps will all go to the game and spend money to be like their daddy, asmon would actually boost that games valuation to investment holding firms lol
Do you really think he has the power to kill a game? Lol
@@tiorontoron7531says the simp who is here hate posting lol
@@slugfest513no. He definitely has the power to sway individual servers though. We’ve seen it already
He can basically sway 100k or so people from giving it a go or not
@@slugfest513yes.
They said they'd do non-p2w, crashed against reality quite fast (there's a reason business models are part of design documents, it's because games aint cheap to make and run), changed their business model, took the publisher money and decided not to say it to the public. It's quite a nefarious act.
They are tryin so hard to avoid saying their game is p2w XDD might as well say "No, you cant buy wepons, armors, crystals, gems... with cash or ingame currency." And then at the bottom of the screen with 0.000001 inch letters "but you can purchase ingame wepons, armors, crystals and gems"
The exact same thing happened in Blade and Soul, bis gems used to drop from a world boss that can be contested by enemy faction. Eventually there were rng boxes that gave the same tier or above the gem and it got increasingly worse over time.
Yep, loved playing that game. Played it everyday until those Spring Festival lootboxes or whatever they were. Still one of the most fun combat systems in an MMO.
@@Zefiris8Yep, the combat was way better than BDO... Too bad the awakening update ruined it
Its so sad cuz BnS was such a fun game to play combatwise
BNS had an enstablished fanbase behind it already, it never made bold claims like this AND it was not a mobile game from what i recall.
blade and soul was sush a good game, at least combat wise, until they ruined it! They even ruined their own talent system along the way, I don't get it.
5:45 - Keep in mind, if you are planning to jump into the game to test the systems the servers do not use a queue system, they have a "total account limit" per server. The servers have hit their account limit cap thus cannot get into the game unless you are using another account or they open up the room.
The idea of playing Lost Ark 2.0 with Lost Ark P2W without Lost Ark Honing sounds great and I'd be on board with that.
But they didn't promise lost ark monetization, they said "strictly non-p2w" and that's where the problem is.
I was really hoping for an old school WoW clone, I figured they would go 100% f2p at least until they were ready for the live version came out and then apologetically explain that they underestimated their overhead and they would be instating a modest subscription fee. I'd pay a couple bucks a month for WoW on my phone.
They don't want "a few bucks a month" players. They want literal sparewars where whaling per simp is measured in small nation's GDP per month.
im sure the director in charge of the game that wanted it to be F2P was fired. no way a company would allow this to happen when you got games making billions of dollars off predatory monetization.
true F2p is a dream. and any director that peruses it will get fired
@@Skyline_NTRFortnite made billions and sold purely cosmetics…. It’s possible to have a cash cow of a game without direct P2W
This is how i deside, if a game is worth playing: i go to the ingame shop and if i see premium currency for $99.99, then it’s not worth it
No MMO is worth playing.
I swear, my friend and I said something along the lines of: "Did you see that new MMORPG that came out? No? It's called Tarisland. They advertise as Non-P2W. And it's Chinese. And it's mobile. Yes, it is P2W"
Also to add. Yesterday they started to ban players in the official Tarisland discord, who were voicing their opinions about the p2w situation. With things being called as acting like a 4 year old by the senior moderators they have. They are adamant on wiping the whole discord of any p2w talk.
😮 chinese process 😢
Let's flood it and keep talking about it 😂
Hot take: make a game with access to every single item through farming and add cosmetics that you can buy for money. Also make a “supporter bundle” or just a “support the studio” option. The issue is that you need to be EXTREMELY clear on what you’re using that money on and never bs the community. You like the game, you support the devs. Can’t support but love the game? Then play the game and increase the stats. Game business is so many more facets than just “sell product we rich”. Why do you think companies market through super bowl? Why do you think Coca Cola tries to force a Santa Claus commercial around Christmas? Coverage and top of mind as well as engagement are MASSIVE factors that none of these companies take into account
Only "recent" game that i've seen do this ( every item available to farm, only skins are paid dlc's o supporter package) is DEEP ROCK GALACTIC, that game gives you all that it has, from farming only. It's PvE game, dont know if that matters, tho
If you Google it, the result for the games main page still says - Tarisland is a non-P2W MMORPG on PC/mobile, featuring raids, diverse classes & builds, and a vast world for exploration.
This is made by Tencent. No surprises here.
This is no difference from people buying WoW Tokens to buy gold and buy items on the auction house.
You can't buy 99% of gear in wow 😂
@@jtowensbyiii6018 no capping but TL is same as WoW when it comes to endgame gear, it is bind on pick up anyways. in CBT it was basically Pay to progress faster but then when the real items dropped every one was on the same playing field.
Can't buy 100% of gear from auction. And the gear you do get from the auction is worthless since you get all of em for just doing the content in the game
@@BillyHadley you're Missing the point. In TL you buy premium currency to get gold. In WoW you buy the koebs to get gold. And don't tell me gold isnt important, because the gold sellers on WoW make a killing 😂
@@jtowensbyiii6018 You can buy gold which you use to buy gear. WoW is also P2W.
Just because one game does it doesn't make it okay for the other to do it too.
Tarisland devs: "Non-P2W! P2W is forbidden!"
Tencent or whichever Chinese firm actually invested to make this game: "You think it's one way...but it's the other way."
In any games that I tried, if 10cent is their biggest sponsor, forget about it.
@@MascrisSensei Riot Games being the exception.
@@Svenson_IVRIOT already had LOL estabilished prior to the Tencent aquisition, and their skins monetization model was already proven to work. They even run their esports division at a loss because they know they get more skin sales from it. And besides leveling boosts to your account, what else can you make that you will call p2w? I guess champion aquisition. It's much easier to make a p2w game from the scratch than changing the business model on an estabilished titles without losing massive amounts of players. Still, at the end of the day, RIOT is still just as scummy as any other big company, if not more than most.
@@Svenson_IV warframe
@@agronnakmore scummy than EA? Acti-Blizz? Nexon?
Remember the days in early WoW or FF11 where it took time, skill and a grind to get gear. Once you had that gear you felt this level of pride and accomplishment. This is exactly why the entire video game industry is experiencing layoffs. Games just don’t hit anymore, it all about max profits as quickly as possible. Board of directors, senior directors, etc all they are about is profit. MMORPGs and other games are in the worst state I have ever seen it. Just make a monthly subscription and call it a day. No need for all of this stuff. It’s never going to change which is sad. One day when multiple companies close down, lack of talent like coders moving away from the industry eventually this will go back to normal
They removed all p2w features. Also the best gear now only comes from raids and cant be traded to other players so you cant pay for ,power,
"We don't sell you gold. We sell you crystals. What you do with the crystals is up to you."
What's insane is if a company such as Taco Bell blatantly did false advertisment even in the slightest bit they will have the hammer brought down on them by the government but if some gaming company or mobile game does it, crickets.
I would hope your government cares a LOT more about companies lying about your food than a video game 😅
@@celestielsigh how is that an argument for companies lying about their product?
@@MwKShield1 It's not an argument, just a comment.
@@celestielsigh 👍
I like how he says that he's not going to invest time in the game any more but still make content out of it and plays. Goodjob Spid
Technically its "Pay To Lose"
Because if you pay in this game, you are losing in life
A lot of the biggest whales are also winning in life despite themselves.
Unfortunately, this comment is right up there with the myth that all bullies are secretly depressed or abused. Reality is that many of these whales have serious disposable income. Think of the 24 year old programmer who makes over $100k and has no responsibilities outside of work (no family), and can basically spend several thousand dollars every month of their income without bating an eye or going into debt.
i wish that were true... the people losing by dumping thousands on these kinda games are a spending addicted minority, most just have money to burn ;-;
The dude you reacted to just got banned from the main discord. Please make a video on this
Their excuse on Discord is probably the best ive ever seen. "We didn't know its Pay2Win sorry we stop saying its not Pay2Win instead of not making it not Pay2Win 🤣"
Bro stop !! this is not P2W, its Whale2Win MMO...
Its Pay2Win with extra steps
@@jujujojo240 the problem Its that whales end UP ruining ALL content.
That's why you don't get excited over any MMO type game these days. Not even when they get released. Sometimes they release something that is not P2W but couple months down the line that stuff gets added into the game.
that moment when you spend years to create, build, work on and advertise a game and then kill it by yourself before it even released...
Watch it not be dead cuz nobody cares what asmongold says
It's because the people killing it ain't the ones who worked hard to make it. Ain't no upper management working 12 hours a day to make anything
man i miss dislike button in youtube .... and t hey still want to watch us ads .Anyway nice self like @@roarbertbearatheon8565
@@roarbertbearatheon8565 Everyone is talking about this. Gaming websites, reddit... Thousands of potential players that will never play the game like myself because I hold Asmongold in higher regard than any company like Tencent.
it's not asmongold, it's spid who is promoting this game and supporting it until they introduced P2W. When they promised a non p2w concept and break that promised thats the end of it. Cosmitics and battlepass is okay but P2W on a chinese game is crazy. You dont want to play againts chinese whales experience them in Mir4 @@roarbertbearatheon8565
You forgot one important step.
You buy the crystals to get the loot boxes, which may or may not contain gold. Then you can back it up with the claim, "Well technically you can spend money and get no gold. Which is proof for our claim that you can't buy gold".
crazy how nowadays you have to announce that your game ISNT pay to win as if its the norm for everything to be pay to win now
That’s bc most games are P2W.
Of course not counting the individual and independent designers that are at the bottom of list you find in app stores
@@aldawgd honestly, the p2w is different for some players.
For example some people believe that paying someone to boost you, is somehow p2w..
Even if it's with ingame money, it's still not p2w.
it's like ME giving knife skins in Counter strike , in exchange for ELO boost.
Paying a player, to get a boost, is NOT p2w.
Yet a lot of people seem to think so.
Also, a lot of people think that p2w for convinience or pay for "speed" is NOT p2w as long as you can find whatever you bought from the store, inside the game as well.
What is right and what is wrong?
Each person has his own idea of what P2W is.
For some people, since u can pay someone else to boost you, even Dota2, legue, apex or counter strike are p2w.
For some others, p2w is only extreme cases like archage.
It's simple, anything that will give you advantage over other player is p2w.
And I mean actions, things, items, systems, that are not accessible without spending real money at some point.
So if you bought knife skin and used it as means to get boosted by other player - that's p2w, because other player cannot do this without paying real money.
@@akhsdenlew1861 Pay 2 Win is when you can spend real world money that gives you in game benefits per examples stated next. such as faster completion or stronger abilities, stats, etc. There is no opinion in this. I can have my opinion that my car is faster than someone else’s but doesn’t make it fact
This game has biased Discord Mods who using alt accounts for discussions and censore your arguments when ever they want to, its really makes no sense to stay there. Me and 6 other friends have quit ✌
If a game has to go out of its way to make "not being p2w" a major marketing point then it's probably pulling the wool over your eyes.
1:08 as soon as you see PC/mobile you should know where this is going
Man this is depressing. I can tell how disappointed Spid is in his video and I totally feel for him. To have the rug pulled out from under you like that it's just brutal.
If we are being 100% unbiased though, the same system is used in wow and wow fans claim that wow isn’t pay to win. Being able to buy gold with real money and using that gold to pay other people to get items, achievements, boosts etc will always be p2w.
@@NamNguyen-jq1rr too true that it's a common system. But the difference here is that Tarisland claimed to be free from that type of crap and set an expectation which they then pulled a complete 180 on resulting in this kind of reaction.
Imagine expect something from Tencent
Gotta love how the tarisland website flags as an unsecure connection on my browser 😂
Imagine making a good game with selling skins only and making a ton of money because game is fun and good. Is it really that hard? Now this game gonna milk some whales and die quickly. For me, them moving to P2W just proves they do not believe in their own game.
i hate when games advertised as something good but in the end is same cash grab
same thing will be with ashes
Money really is the ultimate temptation; They gave up on their morals for it.
Just as a heads up: i don´t want to defend a game for being able to buy gear with IRL money (even if it is with extra-steps).
However: i personally know AT LEAST one game (and play it actively as well) that has a somewhat similar mechanic, and it works out totally fine. BUT: this is due to the design of how buying inGame gold (the only option to get anything that is either non-cosmetic or a non-"convenience only" using IRL money) is actually done, as well as how gearing in general works inGame.
I´m talking about Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 has a gemstore. that´s nothing new, it has existed since launch, and you always were able to exchange IRL money for gems, as well as having a direct trade from gems gold. However: there are distinct limitations not only based on the exchange, but by the fundamental game-design as well.
- the exchange-rate from gold gems is determined by the amount of players selling gems for gold, and players buying gems for gold. So, the more amount of gems is used to buy gold, the more the price of gold increases (automatically devaluing gems, which results in very bad exchange-rates for gold bought with gems).
-the exchange-model is even further supported by the massive amount of skins, novelties, and extremely frequent sales going on (especially since the "Living World"-episodes, aka "mini-expansions" in between "full expansions" MUST be bought with gems, unless you got the full package in one go, which many players usually don´t buy at once considering the full pack does cost above 100€/$). Of course, the exchange-rate fluctuates to some extent, but it has NOT EVEN ONCE even remotely reached a critical point where gems were too valuable. It has NEVER been worth buying gold with gems since its release. EVER!!! (in fact: the trend over the full lifespan of the game is a very slow, but steady increase of price for gold)
-another thing to consider: Guild Wars 2 does have horizontal progression (basically meaning, instead of starting to grind out more and more better gear once you reach endgame, your progress spreads out in multiple directions instead). We don´t have a gear-spiral in the game, the best gear quality shortly after launch (ascended/legendary) is still the best gear-quality now (over 11 years after launch). So, even IF you would, hypothetically speaking, spend a ridiculous amount of gold to buy everything you can even buy for gold in order to accomplish full legendary gear, this not only would cost an IMMENSE amount of IRL money, and you will STILL have to do all the collections or tasks in order to obtain most of the gear (since only a handful of weapons are even tradeable, and armor/trinkets cannot even be traded to begin with). And for a rough calculation: one full legendary armor set does cost roughly 3000 gold, which translates to about 122€ (not accounting for devaluation of the gems-->gold exchange rate). Reminder: by buying such a large amount of gold, the amount of gold you get massivle decreases. If you use that gold to buy everything required in materials, you STILL have to do week-long, if not month-long collections to actually obtain the armor set. and your armor will STILL not be better than the one of any other player that also has ascended or legendary armor (which is just about 10% more stats than the FAR cheaper exotic, and translates to about 5% increase on a DPS-role). Considering that higher stats don´t even have that much of an impact (a skilled, experienced player can easily pull of 10 times higher dps-numbers on exotic armor against a inexperienced player in ascended legendary) this "imaginary advantage" is not only negated, you´re STILL worse because your gear (which cannot even be better than that of another player) cannot even remotely compensate the skill-difference. In fact: gear-quality is the LEAST important factor regarding your "performance" in the game.
EDIT: going further into the video, i should maybe explain a bit more about how gearing works, and how difficult it is to obtain at least the 2nd-best in slot gear: after reaching max-level (always has been and always will be 80) there are a lot of NPC's selling exotic, stat-selectable gear for gold. These items are ridiculously cheap (6 gold + some map-currency per armor piece, and ~2 gold for both weapon-sets). How long does it take to obtain the non-gold currencies needed to fully equip a character this way? --> roughly 3 hours for filling EVERY slot. How long does it take to obtain the gold required to fill EVERY slot? --> not even 30 minutes of gameplay. After gearing up this way, you are basically set forever until the game shuts down. Sure, you are not best-in-slot (ascended), but as said previously, not only is the difference due to quality basically neglegible, but only 1% of the content in the game actually requires the best gear-quality. And getting the materials for these items is tied to, guess what, actually playing the game.
TL:DR buying actually game-influencing items for IRL money (with extra-steps) CAN TOTALLY work. IF (and that´s the important part) there are restrictions put in place. This can be multiple things (which in the case of GW2 obviously apply), for example:
-parts of gear that cannot be obtained by gold alone
-parts of gear that MUST be earned through gameplay
-limitations on the exchange-rate between IRL-money (gems in that case) gold
-incentivizing of spending IRL-money for cosmetics over gold
-regulation of the "circulation" of inGame-currencies (specifically gold) to devalue gems (dis-incentivizing exchanging gems for gold)
-not putting any non-cosmetic gear into the gemstore (limiting the cash-shop to cosmetics, convenience-items or novelties alone)
since PvP came up: that´s the neat part about GW2: gear does NOT matter in PvP. like... at all. PvP does use a seperate stat-system, that is independent of your stats. You can go into PvP after finishing the intro-instance, and you´ll be upscaled to level 80 and using the exact same stats as everyone else, no matter if you use white gear that doesn´t even have stats, or legendary/ascended gear. It makes no difference
Personally, I think paid currencies are, outside of just being predatory, are the same thing as counterfeit money. It takes real money from the economy in exchange for currency that can only stay were the real money was spent (and I'm willing to bet they report both the cash transactions and in-game currency as positive sales, but not for taxing purposes, making their company appear more valuable, causing stocks to be sold at a higher value.)
Counterfeit means making a fake that can pass as the original.
In-game paid currencies aren't counterfeit money.
It's a "1 level deep" conversion of real money into obviously fake money - fake money that the in-game economy uses. Paid in-game currencies exist for a few reasons:
1. To obfuscate the fact of how much you're really spending on the game
2. To psychologically prime you - after each purchase - to spend more as you're paying in small chunks
They certainly are predatory, on that we agree on.
Usually a couple of dollars/euros buys you hundreds/thousands of their currency, which is there to basically tell you that a small amount of real money converts to larger in-game paid money and that conversion in your head sticks. So each time you do it, it gets progressively easier for your consciousness to justify the purchase(s).
Secondly, the fact that they price their shit higher than the actual currency sold (sold only in bundles, never direct purchases), always tells you that you have to buy more than you actually need and always have leftover. Which again, is there to psychologically "push" you to "round up" to the next item you want. And if you don't do it that often, well they still won as that leftover is the money you bought that is now sitting unused (because you didn't need it in the first place but was forced to buy it).
It's should be crime to advertise your game to not be p2w and then when it comes out it is p2w. I was hoping this was gonna be the next mmo I will put my effort into after world of kings. But another scam.
If Riot Games do the same job to the MMO, that they did to LoL and Valorant, then it will be the best MMO.
I hope they stay the way they are, for the world to finally see what it takes to have the best mmo of all. I'm 100% certain that if a good mmo launches that isn't pay to win, like 90% of the people will just play that.
@@the_Acamanthat’s what none of these companies seem to understand… there is tons of money in P2W however long run there is more money in a non P2W game that has a massive active player base because you can still sell cosmetics. Look at Fortnite…
4:22 look at all those notepads, one of them isnt saved and is titled 'day 1 blizzcon' which was 2 weeks ago...
and he wonders why the pc will randomly turn off
Tencent doesn't make games, they make money sinks
todays mmo gaming whether its fps games or rpgs is so fucking disgusting now, people either download hacks, buy gear, buy gold but never actually play the game themselves and win it themselves. this is what pushes me to play single player games
that's why i only moba.
I'm gay but you'll never see this
I see who you are
Hello
👀
Greenfield Wisconsin
And and Vigor (energy), you get it slowly unless you pay real money to get it fast, so pay to win to get gear and pay to win to play the game.
Ashes of creation is truly all thats left for us Copium MMORPG gamers.
totally agree with u for now.
True that at this point all these other mmos are just gaming snacks we can have till the hopeful main course arrives and then hope it's cooked properly
I don't believe it anymore after this one. I bet Steven Sharif is going to make it P2W day 1.
@@-Bleriot- “for now” being key
Ah yes, the piece of content that is being developed infinitely that people have been tricked into thinking will be a game someday. Very interesting. Even Star Citizen has something out.
Why are people surprised by this? it's Tencent publishing the game, it was inevitable.
In the first 5 minutes I was thinking of trying the game, but no way in hell I would, after watching the whole thing.
The devs really tried to tell us they misunderstood what p2w means because they apparently thought p2w only means that you can buy wins on a ranked ladder, otherwise i cant understand where the misunderstanding was..
it's a big MMORPG of course they know what it means, it's just PR spin really. And the guy in the video literally asked a dev or whoever on discord on specifics about gold buying, gear etc and they said that would be wrong.
I just saw the Beta for Tarisland. I almost signed up for this game
It is fun but not worth the download imo. The combat system is a little clunky, could be better. it's lacking in some random spots. Targeting and combo feels ok, more stuff needs not to require a target tho. Story and quests even seem ok. Don't feel like you missed out tho it's nothing special, I uninstalled pretty quickly. We'll see what they do with it though...
Felt a little sad because it could definitely be good imo
Technically you're buying other people's items from the auction house, not items straight from a cash shop, but it's still pay 2 win because you can buy the currency used in the auction house for real money. Do they really think people don't notice the bullshit they're trying to spin here?
That just sounds like "Pay to Win" with more steps LOL
Why is there so much confusion of P2W definition? I don't understand are people stupid or pretend to be dumbsters?
P2W= !!!!!!ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!! That you can BUY with REAL LIFE MONEY!!!!! in the game, which !!!!WILL!!!! Give you advantage, whether its gambling boxes or ingame currency WITH WHICH YOU CAN >>>>>>>>BUY
It's true...you cannot buy stats. You can buy items that give stats, but you cannot buy stats. Just like asmongold said, you buy crystals, not gold, even if those crystals' only usage is to buy gold with them, you still cannot buy gold.
It’s p2w, that’s the issue. Not that you can’t buy gold.
@@coldbreezeproductionsCosmetics are good as long as it has no added stats that makes it easier for the whales to have advantage, they'll iust keep buying sets of costumes to have higher bonus stats.
This same Publisher was the one that handled Dragon Nest 2 Evolution this last August. I'm telling you, it's heavy P2W game and so different from Original Dragon Nest , it's a CASH GRAB mobile game. They left the game after lots of costumes (highest was 500 bux costume set with insane bonus stats) but full of bugs and an incomplete game.
I bet they'll do the same here in Tarisland , they'll sell what they've sold in Dragon Nest 2 Evolution (VIP MONTHLY CARD THAT GIVES you advantage in stamina than F2P players , Costumes that so expensive with so many bonus stats and the only way to buy stuffs in in-game Trading House is to top up). This Publisher is a company of greedy.
They stated “through auction”, which is probably the narrative they’ll run with as you buy gold from their cash shop.
It really broke my heart 😫 I was enjoying the game until I realized I was capped with vigor
Same, could of been great and make them money if they only had cosmetics to buy!!! I almost bought some already, glad I waited.
brokie
@@coldbreezeproductions same here...I was all for buying skins or like transmogs or something but now y'all just incentivize gambling addiction
If your gameplay experience can be negatively impacted by thousands of bot accounts, it's not a game worth playing.
If you can buy gold it’s P2W. There’s no getting around that…
Tarisland was good ( the first days) but die SOOO FAST injust 8 days...
2 days ago i was trying to do the Botanic in elite, but the game just matchmaking with bots and those bot are underlevel, u CANT KICK BOTS (bot are legal bot in this game) and the healer bot just spam the first heal all the time, people leave the party when they saw more than 2 bot in the party, so is almost impossible to play this game, boring. a total failure i dont care if i have to wait 1-5 min for REAL PEOPLE, but this bot are useless in dungeons 38+
Pay to Win games just help people get ready for how life works.
things like this should just be straight up illegal, if they are changing something like this should force you to post this explicitly on all their social media
I almost downloaded the game, after hearing what the devs did, you really save me...
We can delate this game now, we hate liers....
As expected from a game with the CBT acronym in it...
Their company can be sued into the ground for false advertisement with this.
Hahaha luck with that.
No.
They are big enough to avoid it. Unless the company was in Korea.
What are the damage it caused to you? Installed a free to play game to realise its pay2win 🤣. All the fake gameplay ads on X would get sued then.
09:04 ALSO you CAN'T buy stats with gold, you can buy THINGS that give stats *wink*
i'm very happy Asmo troll this game, they really deserve this, like a paladin saving normal free to play gamer. thank you
Not looking good for Tarisland. If they don't fix this I doubt they make it to 6 months.
It really is a wow clone
UPDATE: They got Legendary Weapons that are Basically 300+$ UN-Upgraded. You need to spend even more to Upgrade them.
A mainland Chinese company caught lying? Colour me surprised xD
This has been a scheme a number of companies have been doing, they promote the game before launch claiming no P2W mechanics to get large numbers for the launch. Then gradually sneak in P2W mechanics that become more blatant in being P2W. Some companies would even promise to not implement major changes without the approval of the majority of the player base but ignore the player base if that majority is against major changes. Eve Online's community has been fairly successful in keeping devs in check. If the devs try to even sneak in something that is considered to be P2W by the community standards. The whole community will rise up in the game and kill anyone who is caught using anything from a pack that contains what is considered a P2W item from the pack (even if it can be gained normally in-game.
They realized everyone was calling them a wow clone so they just figured they had to go full P2W to truly be a clone
Just tell me how Wow is p2w :DDD
Bro wow top 3 not pay to win games
@@ТАДАМ-ю4ж @kechy18 Yall must be trolling lmao. You can buy unlimited gold in wow and use that gold in game to buy anything except for a world first title or rank 1 pvp. you can buy a clear for any content, pay to have the loot funnelled to you, pay for a carry in PVP, you can do anything in the game with in game gold, and you can buy an unlimited amount of in game gold for real money directly through BLizzard, that is one of the most pay to win systems in gaming seconded only by games that allow you to directly purchase stats.
Dude u probably has never played wow yet
@@Kechy18 You can buy boosts tbf. Not that there's anything to "win" in WoW.
this is about the same as buying bonds in runescape and nobody called osrs a p2w either, its still nasty sneaky tactics if you ask me i wont be playing this game just in principle 😂
Hi Tarisland!
BYE Tarisland!!
As soon as a company goes from "we make " to "we make money," it's done. That shift in mindset just kills everything.
First and probably last time I’ll hear about this game.
I mean to be fair, gw2 works the same way and no one complains about it.
I'm playing the Beta and it's True p2w sht!
If your game has 6 class abilities on the UI, *IT IS NOT AN MMO*.
MMOs have more than a dozen abilities *at least*, and I am being extremely generous.
Look this formula for games is the perfect corporate project parallel:
You start a company/business, small, mostly what you're selling is an idea. (kickstarter/early access/beta, alpha, etc..)
You get investors, they give their money to grow your operation because they believe you have a cool idea. (players; whales, krill)
The idea is actually cool it meets the market's demands so your company grows. (right before people get to the end game, this is before the predatory system is obvious and everyone notices)
Once your company is big enough to satisfy your pocket, sell the company. (the game inevitably dies because it's obvious P2W kusoge, but you walk away with pockets full of whale money)
I think people have to remember this game was originally for Chinese players, so they don't really care what we think too much. Unless players in China don't like it and call them out, don't expect anything
The second you read "on pc and MOBILE" you can be 100% sure it will have some kind of insane microtransaction and p2w in it.
It is Chinese, who in their right mind thought that it wasnt Pay2Win? They dont know how to make Games that arent either Pay2Win, Gacha, or both.
The best MMO I've played that don't require to be hard cash is Dragon nest, they only sell Pet (which is auto collecting drop), Gacha box (inside there is costum, mount, and bunch of junk consumable item insignificant), and cosmetic. They didn't sell high attributes item such as high end late game or special equipment, and the mount or costume only adding a very little tiny bit of stats.
yup and pvp is balanced and all about skills that game is fun if only it's open world
The sad part is I felt like the game had potential. The voice acting and translation was horrible, but gameplay and combat was decent and the game visually looked really good for a mobile game, but the fact they lied and are trying to damage control really is just a shame.
The irony is, while listening to this whole system of gear getting and then having to switch it after new season comes, is that this just sounds like every MMO (Including WoW) where you grind for gear and then have to switch to new gear in few months when new raids come out. The people in top guilds who used gold to gear themselves out faster and push content because of it, will also be in the same situation as the whales in this game. You can also buy that gold in games like WoW. It's the same shit, but WoW Andy's would never admit it.
Asmon has already admitted that WoW is p2w. Everybody knows it is p2w too
every RMT-able mmo is p2w..
It's just like Diablo Immortal saying "we don't sell powerful gear in the store", but the p2w "secret sauce" is actually in the gems you put on top of the gear...
So is Albion still the best choice for a non p2w mmo? Or at least not as p2w as others? Please help I need a good mobile mmo that doesn’t have p2w features
Iruna online and it's sequel, toram online, are still the best I've seen for mobile. Adventure quest mobile version was fun back when I used to play it but that was a few years ago.
False marketing, i hope this company gets sued and realizes the errors of its ways and we get the game they originally advertised or something better.
my prediction , mitm improvement included they soon sell items and vouchers that let you redeem stuff from third partys, not the official site store nor ah. so the f2p immersion is even harder to break
It's quite honestly very likely that the original creative team was passionate and had a clear vision, but investors and lawyers got the upper hand.
Nah. It is WAY more likely that the original team designed it to be P2W and intentionally lied.