Ah yes, these are heavy penetration core gauss rounds...6 per bin. And still a bargain at this price. So, how many you taking today? Hmm? /clan sea fox salesman.
@@MechanicalFrog Firstly it was cool seeing you on the podcast with Tex nice job. Secondly, as someone who has been a tank nerd since I gained sentience. I always have to use my suspension of dibelief around mechs in fiction. While they do look cool and I love the setting, I will always like conventional ground vehicles more. Keep up the good work.
I love these stupid things. You take them expecting them to explode early, so when one actually blows a huge hole into something, you can get really excited.
At one point my group was playing a narrative campaign that took place directly before the word of Blake funny time era. Our merc company made landfall, and everyone had brought mechs for a long campaign away from supply lines...except me. I brought a Modified Crab and 2 Hetzers. It was funny until those two hetzers went on to kill a whole heavy lance (of 3 mechs) with a ridiculous series of lucky head shots and blasting away and center torsos. They went on to somehow survive that campaign. The hetzer twins are now a famous name in our areas battletech community. Its Hetzin' time
I find it hilarious that the Hetzer's ac20 is described as firing 150mm rounds in 10-round bursts, this implies that it carries a total of 200 rounds in a pocket dimension.
6:28 Another AFV that will fail The Chieftain’s patented “Oh Buggar, The Tank Is On Fire” test when the crew faces a “significant emotional event” on the battlefields of the 31st and 32nd centuries.
Hetzers are adorkable little death machines, and in that respect they are just the vehicle version of the urbie, cheap, effective if used in a certain enviroment but not overly so, big gun, cheap, and did i mention cheap?
Unlike the Urban Mech, a Hetzer moves at a reasonable speed. The Hetzer's speed won't save it, but at least it generally gets a shot off before it gets killed.
@@Chris_Sizemore The Hetzer moves at a reasonable speed... on flat paved roads. Show it some terrain, or some trees, or splash a little bit of mud on it, now watch the Urbanmech casually saunter up and step on it whilst the wheels uselessly spin.
@@fix0the0spade So you don't use it outside of a city or suburbs. Just like you don't use a Savannah master for for jungles, a Pike for urban combat, or a Monitor for open ocean. Build quality aside, the Hetzer is very good its niche of urban ambush on a tight budget.
To quote Tex, the Hetzer is the bread bowl of tanks. Carve it out and fill it with some sort of soup. I won't say i love it, because i have had very mixed luck, but the missile variant has served in my sad, sad periphery merc lance from time to time. Because disappointment is a constant companion to a periphery merc lance.
A car with a giant gun sticking out, this is the most Florida Man thing I’ve seen on BT and its wonderful !!! Oh Quicksell the Wish of the battletech universe
My hetzer stories all revolve around HBS battletech-Roguetech, where my little hetzer that could was mounting a thumper artillery piece and doing work.
Look at the real-world Hetzer and you'll realize: this dumb little thing is an ambusher by trade. Hide in a hedgerow, covered with camo netting and let the enemies' shiny, stompy robots walk right up to you, then pull the good ol' shoot-and-scoot. I firmly believe that the Hetzer's reputation suffers from bad tactics. Treating these things like a main battle tank does nothing but waste crew and equipment. Using them in hit-and-run defensive ambushes is the way.
100% agree, in a double blind match where you can actually ambush with them, they really are nasty. Of course the best variant is still the LRM30 version, a lance of those is 120 missiles and makes people think you have more support mechs and less main combat mechs in your force. You can even run a full company of mostly Hetzers and crush it as long as you have good scouting for the LRM Lance.
The Hetzer is technically not a technical, but it's a heavy pickup with armour and a weapon system along the passenger side. While it isn't in lore, I can't imagine the Hetzer doesn't have van and open body variants, with the commander's seat moved to the traditional location next to the driver. Ambulances, dump and tow trucks, trash truck, light crane, APC. Lengthen the bed, and it's the start to a small fire truck or a flat bed. Or a school bus. As such, it's "death from below" which can be maintained in a city's motor pool and has spare parts in common with most of their other heavy equipment. It isn't great, but it's cheap and the logistics are attractive. Just like the missile carriers are probably built on a common chassis with a lot of other industrial and mining machines. But I've always seen QuikCell as the maker of cost effective heavy and not so heavy equipment, like Hyundai or Norinco, even including things like passenger cars, TVs and washing machines. Do I love it? No, but I"ll use it. Particularly the LRM carrier. My version in eras when TAG is a thing and home on TAG LRMs get common is as a scout- LRM15, SRM6 and a TAG. With a reservist driver that is a ralley racer when not called to active duty.
Hetzer can make some noise on the table and is relatively cheap. Definitely something you want to add to your city defense, hide it around a corner on a side street and wait for a new friend to arrive.
So the original 3026 TRO includes a lore story about how many units would refuse new Hetzers because at least they knew the old ones worked. Frequently with parts not installed at all, the best case scenario for many of those crews would be that the parts would just be tossed in and to be later installed by the motor pool. A specific mention was the gunsights. This story harkens back, if I recall correctly, to stories of Soviet T34s in World War II, specifically about sights not being installed and the best case scenario being that they were just tossed into the tank for the crews to install.
I'm listening to your visit to the BPL podcast, The New Explorer Core is my favorite thing you've made! I really appreciate everything you create and I hope you continue sharing your passion with us!
Ive used Hetzer's a lot over the years. Always a great way to fill out a roster and scare the bajeezus out of an enemy. Just grabbed my first new scult of one. Love how it looks!
When I was a kid I would bring 8 locust, 2 hetzers and as many scorpion battle tanks to the table as possible. Ever see a clan player throw a fit because his Omni assault mech has to take fire from 20+ tanks a turn? Also when most people talk about the urban mech they leave out 3 important things. 1 you can fit 8 in a leopard. 2 dirt cheap. 3 can torso twist 360 degrees.
The Hetzer: Demolisher at home And I feel bad for those Free Worlders that stumbled into a Hetzer nest, but, considering they made the Asset Management Weapon, not as bad I should.
Though I've never voiced this out loud, I've been anticipating this video for some time now. I'm glad to see that little buddy finally gets some recognition.
One way to get around limited ammo reserves in most Hetzer variants is to use caseless ammo, which is available even during Succession Wars-era gameplay. It effectively doubles your ammo count in exchange for a negligible chance of jamming the gun or getting blown up.
I think this is one where game rules don't account for what you could do with this. I'm thinking in urban fighting you could drive one of these in to a parking garage up to the level where the heads of mechs will be passing. Even if you only dome one mech before being discovered and flattened then you've already made back your cost. Plus if you win then that's good salvage. Kill the meat, save the metal. Same goes for ground level. The low speed isn't really a problem for making your gettaway if the enemy is missing a leg.
Another great vid, MechFrog!👏👏👏 That quote from TRO 3026 about the construction process is priceless!😂 And price is exactly what was on Quickcell’s mind. I have six, two Drac and four FWL (2nd Sirian Lancers) to represent units given inferior gear by their superiors. I love the Hetzer because it’s not (anywhere near) perfect. That gives it character😄 We’ve mainly used them as the basic model in AlphaStrike as it’s just 15 points each, or the LRM/SRM versions if we feel like splashing out a full 18 points per tank. Thanks for using my models in the vid. Lastly, I did not choose the StugLife. The StugLife chose me.
Srm hetzer is a light SRM carrier with 1.5 tons more armor and no turret, limiting its arc of fire but having one fewer location to spread that armor out over. A pretty good deal. It is however slightly MORE expensive than the light SRM carrier which is 824k. Howecer it's available innearlier eras because while thr light srm carrier lacks any advanced tech it is "officially" a 3060 design.
I remember these from my days playing MechCommander2, they weren't much of a threat, provided as long as you didn't let them get close. A couple of volleys of LRMs usually did the trick.
The Hetzer is a really weird vehicle that only works in a niche role... but in that niche role, it's very cost effective. Myself, I prefer the AC10 version due to the longer range, but I feel like the LRM version might be the most useful, given it can rain down indirect fire or lay minefields without being exposed to incoming fire. In that regard, the Hetzer might be more akin to the Hunchback: The main variant carries an AC/20 and is very niche, but there's a variant for every occasion such as SRM-spam or LRM sprinklers. I like the Hetzer, but that's mostly cause it's so unapologetical and bold about what it truly is.
The MF is similar to the one I cooked up as OpFor in a campaign game. It was to reflect my feelings on the Nashorn back when I was playing World of Tanks: Trash vehicle, but the effective long range gun covers up a multitude of deficiencies the chassis may have.
When we played campaigns in the past we only had C-Bills. This was long before BV or anything like that. So at around 600,000 C-Bills the Hetzer wasn't necessarily a bad thing. I mean if a pilot lost his mech in battle and would have otherwise been "dispossessed", being moved to the Hetzer crew might be a better option than anything else. It was rarely about what a Hetzer did in combat, but what it could do, the mere fact it had an AC20 meant a more conservative or risk-averse enemy would need to deal with it before closing the distance. So in this sense they could be used to protect fire support lances, or in urban environments where more combat could be expected to take place at closer ranges.
The Hetzer is an excellent urban defense vehicle on the cheap. Especially when they are paired with SRM Carriers or SRM Hetzers. Throw in some supporting infantry and you won't miss that the Hetzer doesn't have a secondary weapon. I certainly like the Hetzer for urban defense more than the Urbanmech. At least a Hetzer can outrun most Assault Mechs and tanks. The Urbanmech can't even outrun an Annihilator. The Urbanmech is just a slightly mobile turret, whereas the Hetzer is an actual mobile combat vehicle. One short story that shows the Hetzer putting in good work is Hornet's Nest from "BattleTech: 25 Years of Art & Fiction ".
Lol. Love the qualifier "kinda." Makes perfect sense. Pros: Cheaper (both BV and CB) than an Urbanmech. Incredible firepower for the cost. Decent speed (for a vehicle.) Cons: Armor only so-so. Ammo supply can be an issue. no secondary weapons. Lack of maneuverability. It's a vehicle. When you're defending an urban environment and your budget is so small even a Capellan quartermaster thinks it's stingy, then Hetzers are a decent (if desperate) choice.
Forgot to memtion: my custom variant goes 5/8, has a fuel cell, and a front firing UAC/20. 8 tons of Heavy Ferro Fibrous Armor. 1.35 million C-Bills. Not too shabby!
@@MechanicalFrog I will say I only ever use the AC-10, and the Rotary AC-5 versions. The AC-20 doesn't have the range to be anything other then an ambush predator. 👍
@@rmcdudmk212 The basic Hetzer is very much like its namesake. Low and slow, but easy to overlook until it opens fire. It's a proper Bushwhacker! *pause* Sorry, can't say that, some sneaky battlemech grabbed that name.....
My two cents: A) The Lore stuff is a lot of fun, but shouldn't influence one too much as a player. Some of the game specs are ok enough. If you want to make it work with your head cannon, your command puts any Quikcell product through a detailed maintenance refit before acceptance. B) The LRM 15 variant is definitely worth considering. I am a big fan of using vehicles for long range support, particularly for LRM needs. 4/6 is ok for those uses, and while being wheeled is not ideal, for an LRM truck it's less of a problem. Particularly if you can get a veteran crew into it and use jump infantry squads to spot for indirect fire. It's almost half the BV of a Trebuchet, and like a fifth of the C-Bills. C) It keeps its value going into advanced tech eras, because it keeps being very cheap, and eventually it benefits from TAG/semi-guided missiles. It will also benefit from NARC early on, and while NARC is not easy to use, it ought to mess with the other players' heads, and it's FUN. D) Units like it are a VERY flavourful counter to the Clans and advanced tech "Yes your Gladiator B is Terrifying, but I can have two lances of Hetzer LRM15s pepper it (plus plenty of jump infantry to spot), and 4+ Grasshoppers Ns to fire PPCs as it closes and jump at it/brawl at close range after it's been worn down for the same cost." *aprox figures.
Congrats on being able to palaver with the Tex Man. You are officially a cool BT dude. 😎 The Hetzer is popular and fun because it is what it is. Yes, it's a shoe box with an airsoft gun mounted on a roller skate. Yes, it's only half a Demolisher. But hey, that's why it's there! For much less than half the price of a Demolisher, you get a self-propelled AC 20 that can take a hit or two, has a lower height profile than most of the overgunned MBTs, and is an acceptable loss if it goes up in smoke. Did we mention it has an AC 20? That's right, it has a weapon guaranteed to make a mechwarrior take notice, because if he ignores the shoebox hunkered down in cover, he might suddenly be on the ground wondering what happened to his 'mech's leg. The big nutcracker also ensures that a Hetzer can intimidate most of the enemy AFVs in its general weight class. (How many AFVs in the 30-50 ton range can safely swap shots with a Hetzer at 4 hexes?) And like I said, it's a shruggable loss; trading a lance of them for limping enemy battlemechs is worth it, and a kill shot makes it a real David versus Goliath value. And the Hetzer is definitely a solid design, because all the mods are basically "swap basic AC 20 for different big weapon." The best 3025 alts are the LRM 15 version, which is a superior Hunter, and the SRM 6 boat, which is worth it just for the enemy player's expression when it unmasks at 3 hexes and shoots! The best later alts are the Ultra AC 20 (more dakka), LBX-20 (more batchall dakka), and RAC 5 (spent casing fountain erupting from shoebox).
The Hetzer is an interesting vehicle. I always think of it as the modern pike formation: not necessarily there to do damage but to shape the battlefield as a semi-mobile land mass. Hetzers will break down, they will die, but they're also cheap enough for that to not really matter. Once you get to larger formations they start to shine as they can force enemies into making a decision between focusing down a potentially devastating speedbump or a consistently good battlemech. As long as they cover useful fire positions before they mobility crit they become that craw in an enemy's position. The LRM and AC10 variants are just good since they have the range to reach out and touch someone. They're good vehicles for what they are, even if they're just glorified technicals.
The Hetzer is one of those tanks. ICE engine, autocannon. The tech involved in producing a Hetzer can be found on any world in the Inner Sphere. Heck, most periphery worlds can produce the Hetzer if they try. Quicksel is the company most known to produce the Hetzer, but its a common design that could be produced anywhere. What the Hetzer is most famous for is the low cost for the firepower it provides. While the Hetzer is also known as a rolling coffin, it is what most milita commanders look for in a tank. Cheap, threatening, and disposable. The light armor means it won't stand up to a protracted fight. Honestly a Hetzer is lucky if it gets through 1 ton of ammo before it gets destroyed. Nobody ignores an AC/20 rolling around their mech. While being a wheeled vehicle severely limits where the Hetzer should be deployed, it means it generally is found in its most effective terrane: urban. Using buildings to limit engagement distance and ambushing from cover make the Hetzer deadly and very cost effective. A lone Hetzer is a target. There isn't much under 50 tons that you'll make a higher priority target than a Hetzer. The AC/20 offers that much psychological pressure. A Hetzer makes an excellent bodyguard for LRM equipped units like the LRM Carrier and even the Archer. Most pilots would rather take out the lightly armored Hetzer before turning to concentrate on the LRM unit it came here to eliminate in the first place. And the reason to like cheap units like the Hetzer is because you want to field a lot of units. Hetzers work well in packs. Nothing like getting chased down by a company of Hetzers using wave tactics.
this has long been a favorite vehicle of mine. i like to imagine if you stripped armor and counterweight, and put in a HAG20, the hetzer would flip and fly off like its an object hit with the physics gun
Hello Frog. Ah, the Hetzer. I just don't understand the hate for this vehicle. Way, way back, in the dim mists of time (roughly 1985 or so) I used Hetzer 'tanks' to my advantage on the tabletops. Just about any time I could defend on a planet, I would choose an urban setting and entrenched Hetzers, along with a few faster and more mobile units. Believe me, my amphibian friend, luring the enemy into such an ambush is a thing of beauty. A pair of Medium Mechs to do long ranged damage and fall back into the urban area, intentionally falling back from even an 'even' match, usually ended with the foe charging into 'town' and facing massed AC20 fire from the Hetzers. And if they chose to run, fast movers like Wasps, Singers, Spiders, and Locusts usually would slow 'em down enough for the Hetzers to roll forwards and finish the foe's forces off. With the low cost of the Hetzer, I could afford to practically flood the field of battle in the over-gunned tin cans. I have had fair results using the SRM and LRM Hetzers as well, and your MF variant... well, consider that Yoinked for field-testing. I have always been one for low-cost units, for the most part in my forces. Being able to better afford to lose units and replace them easily, is far, far better, in my estimation, than relying upon single and hugely expensive units. Yes, I know. I have a 'rep' for fielding massive numbers of Locusts at foes as well. But that does illustrate my point. The Hetzer concept is not 'bad', but should have been applied to a unit that was 10 tons heavier. A 50 ton variant would have more tonnage to work with, and thus be a 'better' overall unit. But, one makes so with the crap available. I would guess that the Hetzer is thought of by most as: 'Throw enough crap at a wall and some will stick'. Or, perhaps: 'Eggshells armed with sledgehammers'. It is not really about the fact that the factory that makes them, makes such shoddy examples of war materials, but in how one can use such an inexpensive unit effectively. Hetzers should NEVER be used in anything but forests, dense forests, Jungles, and Urban settings. Most of their manufacturing flaws can be easily fixed by any good Mech-tech, or Repair Bay personnel. Even good batteries can be found for replacement of the factory default units. The Hetzer can be a damned annoying and outright dangerous unit for any attacker. And Planetary Defense Forces can afford to literally buy them by the gross. Yes, each one would need about 100 hours of repairs and upgrades before fielding them in actual battle, but any half way decently trained mechanic can fix a Hetzer. Once 'repaired' to operationa standards, the Hetzer is fairly reliable, easily fixed both in the field and at base, and cheap to replace if totally destroyed. The AC20 is a well established design and very reliable. And, it is just about the most expensive single component of the vehicle. If your planet has any kind of good, heavy industry, every component of the Hetzer is easily replaced if damaged, for relatively low costs. If you have the foundries to make Hezter and AC20 parts, you have enough electronics knowledge to build all the targeting and sensor units that the vehicle uses. So, again, the Hetzer is easily supported by local manufacturing in most cases. And where that is not true, the costs to ship in replacement parts is relatively minor in comparison to shipping in more advanced unit's components. Say what you will about the Hetzer... a properly 'repaired', maintained, and well supplied Hezter force will deny enemy forces entry into cities nine times out of ten. And be able to protect facilities like your heavy industry as well. Bandits purely HATE Hetzers. Especially 'repaired' ones that can sit for days, hidden in place, only to fire up their ICE engines and blow large holes into expensive battlemechs.
If I stuck a Drone Control System inside the Hetzer so I could remote control a bunch of them or set up remote ambush positions, that could be interesting
@@MechanicalFrog Unless they're Clanners taken as Bondsmen, no. You don't want resentful people forced to fight in charge of fire control and target selection. Even if they're not trying to get payback, they're not going to be in the best headspace. Lying in wait with a big cannon is hard enough when you're not being forced to.. No, better to use the prisoners as bargaining chips or advertising of your kindness by letting them leave.
My Hetzer variant is a whopping 4.3-million C-bills, according to my Mech Factory app. The Hetzer ISM utilizes Clan technology in pretty much everything but the one weapon it has. Clan XL engine, Clan FF armor, Clan standard structure (which is obviously superior to the IS standard structure), Clan single heat sinks (again, obviously superior to the IS single HS). It has an engine supercharger, and a dune buggy chassis; I don't know why I did that chassis, it just sounded cool and takes up no space and no tonnage. It has a movement profile of 4[3]/6[6], and Clan CASE to protect it from weapon/ammo explosions. It carries a Clan Light Active Probe in the body, with a Lyran-designed Heavy Gauss Rifle and 5 tons of ammo in the front. I kept it wheeled instead of making it tracked because, well, it was already costly enough. The bright side is that if you put the Hetzer ISM in reverse and gun the engine when you fire the Heavy Gauss, you might have just barely enough push to get out of the line-of-fire from anyone shooting at you from the sides - provided you're in an urban environment to begin with. Although, seriously, why would anyone waste money mounting a monstrous thing like a heavy gauss and an XL engine - Clan or otherwise - on a cheap projection of firepower?
At least for those soldiers who were issued garbage guns, they could salvage a replacement if they lived long enough. That's likely a little trickier when you're a tank crew. Great video, by the way. Good day!
Here's my version: Remove the ICE for a Fuel Cell engine of the same power output. This would get rid of the problems related to the crappy battery and it saves weight. Replace the AC/20 for an MRM 30 with an Apollo FCS and three tons of ammo. CASE is added to protect from ammo explosions. The armor profile is redesigned with 7.5 tons of FF armor, allowing a turret with two Small Pulse Lasers to be installed on the roof, for the commander. Three extra Heat Sinks are needed, on top of the one all Fuel Cell engines come with by default. The truck wheeled chassis and overall weight are left as they were. The new design's price is 958,600 C-Bills, or about a 44% increase in cost. Thoughts?
I have used Hetzer in introduction games to new players. I give n00b some 'Mechs and have him play against my Hetzer platoon. I like the range of AC/10 variant, and the number of ammo bins gives options for special ammo types. Increased armor is somewhat useless as the thing gets immobilised before armor gives out. LRM variant is also cool and faster than LRM Carrier. Little disappointed you didn't have a photo of Jagdpanzer 38 which is also called Hetzer.
@@MechanicalFrog The one that was a tech-sink and pride project with the only real point being that of punching through the Fulda Gap and then no one caring whether it would still have gas, that barely saw adoption before the fall of the Soviet Union and then became a millstone so bad that one of the first upgrades was to put a diesel engine in it to make it slightly less thirsty, is a quaility choice IMHO.
Honestly, AC 10 hetzer with 4 tons specialty ammo, 7 tns amor. could be fun. A Lance of Hetz MF on a hill with cover wouold be a serious PITA for a light / medium unit
I remember the Baron. I was thinking of getting the boxset that had these. Now I'm seriously reconsidering and looking at something different. If I do end up with these, I'll reassign these to 2nd Battalion of my Regiment.
I mean if you're trusting a company that the decided to go with the name " Quickscell", I can't help but feel that you're only getting exactly what you paid for, barely assembled an all. That said, I kind of like the idea of the Hetzer, in a twisted kind of way. It basically answers the question of "How do we get the biggest gun to the front with the lowest possible cost?", while throwing on just enough extra widgets to not make it too obvious that was the your sole concern.
Yes, it is quite terrible a vehicle, but, at the end of the day a Hetzer hiding in the upper levels of a parking garage at head-hight of a mech is a surprise wake-up call you only really encounter once.
As I was painting my batch of Hetzers I thought to myself: "I should ask MechFrog to cover this vehicle". Love its lore, don't care its pretty much crap, I've got a soft spot for the real hetzer, and this BT iteration is also a great machine. Very nice catalyst re-work of the art. Actually its the Mechfrogs fault I've come to love all the ground vehicles of the BT universe. As a GM player I don't have the pressure to win a game, and my AC10 Hetzer killed a mech in one shot xD. Cheers
It's very easy to rebuild it as a tracked unit. Fuel Cell; 4/6/0 move; Armour:(F) 32; (Sides) 26/26; (Rear) 20. Weapons: GR(F) with 3 tons ammo; MG(F); MG(LS/RS) with 0.5 tons ammo. BV: 839 Cost: 1,118,883 C-Bills.
(Thank you for the work you put into this video, I enjoyed it quite a bit. I want to like the Hetzer really bad because I can see why it’s made, it’s the Urbanmech of vehicles but it’s somehow worse. I do really like the more balanced versions like the AC10 version and the Cell version.) Thanks for the history lesson to go along the combat vehicle lecture! For once I actually have a story for the class, or whatever the stars this all is. You see a LOT of these things out in the Periphery, the Capellans dumped a lot of their old stocks out here. You’ll find them in militia units, mercenary companies, and pirate bands. Because as long as it shoots and drives it’s useful. I’ve fought these things a lot and even alongside them more than once. Like any weapon if you use them smart and fit their intended purpose they arnt great but they arnt terrible. If you don’t… well you won’t be around long enough to worry about it. So this story is not about them being used right. So my families Merc unit got hired by the MAF to deal with a little problem of theirs, a pirate band lead by a wanna be bandit king had seized control of a relatively prosperous periphery planet that the Magistracy had been eying to set up a trade and protection treaty with. They wanted their potential client back and a this future pain in their ass dealt with, and they were willing to pay good c-bills to see it done. So after a whole bunch of fun cloak and dagger stuff involving capturing one of the pirates bird dog drop ships and stowing away on it with a gun literally pointed at the captains head while he lied as fast as possible to get us on the ground. We managed to land on planet and secure the landing port with speed, surprise, and a whole lot of overwhelming violence. So as we started to dig in and unload our heavy kit, we found ourselves under attack by the garrison that said bandit king to be had left in the capital city which was a few miles from the space port for safety reasons. Which was a bit of a shock since we knew they were pretty low quality. So it turn out that these “garrison troops” were basically whatever scum the pirates had managed to drag out of the local prisons and asylums for the criminal insane then given them guns, they were told to keep the city under control or else they’d be introduced to the foot of a mech. You can imagine how nasty they got trying to maintain their new Masters law and order. So the moment the local population figured they might have a chance a freedom, they started fighting back hard and introducing their oppressors to the business end of a rope hanging from a lamp post. So faced with a whole city trying to murder them, a group of mercenary in control of the space port, and a boss that was half a planet away who’d probably kill them for failing. These assholes decided their best chance of living was an all out assault on the space port before we could finish unloading our mechs and heavy armors. Either wipeout our bridgehead or seize a dropship to try to run for it in. So they threw themselves at us with way more desperation than skill, they were mostly made up of a lot of poorly trained and even worse disciplined infantry backed up by some very old apcs and tanks. Which gave our own infantry quite a fight, at least until we managed to unload one of Sergeant Herrera’s Firestarter and she got to have her fun. Anyway back to the Hetzer, these scum had a full company of old and poorly maintained Hetzers that were the core of their assualt. They tried to use these things like tanks, firing on the move as they pushed forward while infantry advanced behind them. That went extremely poorly for them. Those machines could have given us a real fight if they’d dug into the city and they were intimidating as hell for keeping the locals under control but they are just to slow for much else. We salvaged some of them although I’m not sure it’s worth the effort and I know we ripped the AC 20 out of a few of them and installed a bigger and faster engine to use them as makeshift scout cars. Probably not the best use of them but hey we’re are armored cavalry unit and we’re sure as hell not putting any of our girls and boys in those stock rolling coffins.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Spend too much time dealing with ACs and you start making ammo mistakes. Yes, the Gauss Rifle ammo is 8 per ton, not 6. Silly me...
It happens. Nobody is perfect 👍
It's a Capellan plot I tell you!
That or it's a clan Diamond Shark merchant trying to cheat you.
Ah yes, these are heavy penetration core gauss rounds...6 per bin. And still a bargain at this price. So, how many you taking today? Hmm? /clan sea fox salesman.
I'm just amused that you didn't make your variant equipped with a plasma cannon.
The Hetzer answers a very simple yet profound question : What if Gun, but Wheels?
So true
"Mechs think they can outstomp me. Maybe. Maybe. I have yet to meet one who can outstomp *cannon*." -Hetzer.
Where there is a plethora of cheap and barely functional military equipment, there is a way.
@@MechanicalFrog Firstly it was cool seeing you on the podcast with Tex nice job.
Secondly, as someone who has been a tank nerd since I gained sentience. I always have to use my suspension of dibelief around mechs in fiction. While they do look cool and I love the setting, I will always like conventional ground vehicles more. Keep up the good work.
In a hetzer, how many mechs have you survived "meting" though?
It was a fun conversation. Tex and I could talk history well into the early morn.
Heavy Weapons Guy looks at you suspiciously...
“I’m Discount Dan, and I will always take YOUR money!”
Mighty kind of him.
The Hetzer... for when you can´t afford a Hollander but still need something that is a gun first and mobility second.
Mom, can we have decent equipment for our planetary militia? Mom: "We have decent equipment at home." The decent equipment at home: Hetzer.
@@MechanicalFrogBut MOOOOOM, that's from old earth puddle apocalypse 2!
Mom: No honey, look, new gun.
Hetzer's gonna Hetz
Can't stop the Hetz.
Beat me to it 😂
I miss old War Thunder
DO A LOOP!
I wonder if u could put jump jets on a hetzer 🤔🤔🤔. Something to consider
I love these stupid things. You take them expecting them to explode early, so when one actually blows a huge hole into something, you can get really excited.
In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, there is still a place for a Truck with a Gun.
Always.
Imagine being a genetically improved supersoldier in a mech worth its weight in germanium, and dying to a Hetzer. The shame. Thanks for the video.
You mean scorpion battle tank.
Hetz Commander: We gotta mech coming from our flank!
Hetz Gunner: I cant aim our canon, its case-mate!
*Hetz Driver pulls fullspeed drift
Hetz Gunner: Thankyou! *BANG*
At one point my group was playing a narrative campaign that took place directly before the word of Blake funny time era. Our merc company made landfall, and everyone had brought mechs for a long campaign away from supply lines...except me. I brought a Modified Crab and 2 Hetzers. It was funny until those two hetzers went on to kill a whole heavy lance (of 3 mechs) with a ridiculous series of lucky head shots and blasting away and center torsos. They went on to somehow survive that campaign. The hetzer twins are now a famous name in our areas battletech community. Its Hetzin' time
The high likelihood of death just spurs them on.
I find it hilarious that the Hetzer's ac20 is described as firing 150mm rounds in 10-round bursts, this implies that it carries a total of 200 rounds in a pocket dimension.
6:28 Another AFV that will fail The Chieftain’s patented “Oh Buggar, The Tank Is On Fire” test when the crew faces a “significant emotional event” on the battlefields of the 31st and 32nd centuries.
The Hetzer: Because the Scorpion Tank wasn't enough of a death trap for you
I mean, I'd rather have the Hetzer; better chance you actually kill/incapacitate something before you go down.
That's why nobody of nobil birth is assigned to one
Hetzers are adorkable little death machines, and in that respect they are just the vehicle version of the urbie, cheap, effective if used in a certain enviroment but not overly so, big gun, cheap, and did i mention cheap?
Unlike the Urban Mech, a Hetzer moves at a reasonable speed. The Hetzer's speed won't save it, but at least it generally gets a shot off before it gets killed.
@@Chris_Sizemore true
@@Chris_Sizemore The Hetzer moves at a reasonable speed... on flat paved roads. Show it some terrain, or some trees, or splash a little bit of mud on it, now watch the Urbanmech casually saunter up and step on it whilst the wheels uselessly spin.
@@fix0the0spade So you don't use it outside of a city or suburbs. Just like you don't use a Savannah master for for jungles, a Pike for urban combat, or a Monitor for open ocean. Build quality aside, the Hetzer is very good its niche of urban ambush on a tight budget.
Putting a gauss rifle on this thing is like putting a gauss rifle on a Halo Mongoose!
I love it!!
It's really a long overdue upgrade. Besides, if it's worth upgrading with FF, XL, and HAG, it's worth upgrading with a Gauss.
Love watching the shear look of horror on a players face when they enter a city and the opfor consists of Hetzer, Saladin, and heavy SRM carriers.
To quote Tex, the Hetzer is the bread bowl of tanks. Carve it out and fill it with some sort of soup.
I won't say i love it, because i have had very mixed luck, but the missile variant has served in my sad, sad periphery merc lance from time to time. Because disappointment is a constant companion to a periphery merc lance.
I have never had a bad experience with a Hetzer. I have never had one get motive locked by an AC2 on the second turn.
Well that's good to hear.
Ac2 are the bane of vehicles
Speaking of bane and ac2s.... Wait till you feel horrible for having every single ultra ac on a bane ac2 jammed by the heat phase of the second round.
@@OmniMontel i’ve had an entire start of Banes knock out a Kirghiz.
A car with a giant gun sticking out, this is the most Florida Man thing I’ve seen on BT and its wonderful !!! Oh Quicksell the Wish of the battletech universe
Keeping it simple... probably too simple.
You forgot Banshee and Charger, two assault mechs with Florida man energy.
@@andreykuzmin4317 true although i actually like the Charger nothing better than a giant assault mech with tiny pew pew s as its only weapons
@@MechanicalFrog the motto of Quicksell “ they can alway have more babies”
Quikscell, when Wish and Russian Tank Industry have a baby in the future and give it a german name.
My hetzer stories all revolve around HBS battletech-Roguetech, where my little hetzer that could was mounting a thumper artillery piece and doing work.
Tank commander:Gunner SABOT,Hezter!
Gunner:On the way!
Tank Commander: Target neutralized!
Look at the real-world Hetzer and you'll realize: this dumb little thing is an ambusher by trade.
Hide in a hedgerow, covered with camo netting and let the enemies' shiny, stompy robots walk right up to you, then pull the good ol' shoot-and-scoot.
I firmly believe that the Hetzer's reputation suffers from bad tactics. Treating these things like a main battle tank does nothing but waste crew and equipment. Using them in hit-and-run defensive ambushes is the way.
100% agree, in a double blind match where you can actually ambush with them, they really are nasty. Of course the best variant is still the LRM30 version, a lance of those is 120 missiles and makes people think you have more support mechs and less main combat mechs in your force. You can even run a full company of mostly Hetzers and crush it as long as you have good scouting for the LRM Lance.
the Hetzer is like a reverse-swaybackified SRM carrier
Kinda.
The Hetzer is just too cute not to love. Look at that turtle-loooking box with wheels, it even has a cute little stubby cannon!
That stubby cannon might look cute from the sides, but when you look at it head on, your attitude will certainly change.
@@h.a.9880
I prefer looking at an AC/20 from the side of the breach, and consider observing it's muzzle as an unsafe work environment, thank you
@@robertbodov912 Undoubtedly.
Now, if only House Davion would accept the application for my emotional support AC/20...
The Hetzer is technically not a technical, but it's a heavy pickup with armour and a weapon system along the passenger side. While it isn't in lore, I can't imagine the Hetzer doesn't have van and open body variants, with the commander's seat moved to the traditional location next to the driver. Ambulances, dump and tow trucks, trash truck, light crane, APC. Lengthen the bed, and it's the start to a small fire truck or a flat bed. Or a school bus. As such, it's "death from below" which can be maintained in a city's motor pool and has spare parts in common with most of their other heavy equipment. It isn't great, but it's cheap and the logistics are attractive. Just like the missile carriers are probably built on a common chassis with a lot of other industrial and mining machines. But I've always seen QuikCell as the maker of cost effective heavy and not so heavy equipment, like Hyundai or Norinco, even including things like passenger cars, TVs and washing machines.
Do I love it? No, but I"ll use it. Particularly the LRM carrier. My version in eras when TAG is a thing and home on TAG LRMs get common is as a scout- LRM15, SRM6 and a TAG. With a reservist driver that is a ralley racer when not called to active duty.
Hetzer can make some noise on the table and is relatively cheap. Definitely something you want to add to your city defense, hide it around a corner on a side street and wait for a new friend to arrive.
Hetzer crews Vindicator Pilots
(Fighting because the machine will kill you if you try to run)
So the original 3026 TRO includes a lore story about how many units would refuse new Hetzers because at least they knew the old ones worked. Frequently with parts not installed at all, the best case scenario for many of those crews would be that the parts would just be tossed in and to be later installed by the motor pool. A specific mention was the gunsights. This story harkens back, if I recall correctly, to stories of Soviet T34s in World War II, specifically about sights not being installed and the best case scenario being that they were just tossed into the tank for the crews to install.
And that if the crew was fortunate, the worker would have tossed in a bag of bolts too so the crew could install the sight themselves.
@@robertschumacher2707 I'm at the office so I don't have access to my TRO but that sounds dead on, lol
I'm listening to your visit to the BPL podcast, The New Explorer Core is my favorite thing you've made! I really appreciate everything you create and I hope you continue sharing your passion with us!
So hear me out: An urbie with a Hetzer welded under the bottom of each foot.
Oh... that would be something.
Loved your podcast with tex
Thank you. It was a fun conversation.
The ride for the Turtle Team
It'll get there... eventually.
a girls und panzer reference?!
@@Spartaner251 Yes.
Girls Und Panzer does kinda exist in BT, there's that Kuritan school for female mech pilots and combined arms
Ive used Hetzer's a lot over the years. Always a great way to fill out a roster and scare the bajeezus out of an enemy. Just grabbed my first new scult of one. Love how it looks!
I'm always happy to hear when people have luck with these sort of units.
A MF variant with a single big weapon and it WASN'T a Plasma Cannon? And no Jump Jets forced into it? Who are you and what have you done to the frog!?
Halfway across the Pacific by now. You'll never find him on the secluded tropical island.
@@MechanicalFrog Damn... And the Hertzer definitely isn't crossing any oceans...
When I was a kid I would bring 8 locust, 2 hetzers and as many scorpion battle tanks to the table as possible. Ever see a clan player throw a fit because his Omni assault mech has to take fire from 20+ tanks a turn?
Also when most people talk about the urban mech they leave out 3 important things. 1 you can fit 8 in a leopard. 2 dirt cheap. 3 can torso twist 360 degrees.
Good times had by all...
Urbie important thing #4 - "low profile" and the concealment bonuses that come with it. (it's a very fast turret, not a very slow mech)
@@muninrob not to mention in 3025 you can do some fun refits. Lrm 20 urbies and 2 large laser urbies.
The Hetzer: Demolisher at home
And I feel bad for those Free Worlders that stumbled into a Hetzer nest, but, considering they made the Asset Management Weapon, not as bad I should.
Recent videos from the Periphery indicate that you can get some wicked air with a Hetzer if you build a big-ass ramp.
Though I've never voiced this out loud, I've been anticipating this video for some time now. I'm glad to see that little buddy finally gets some recognition.
Because it’s adorable. Love me the Turbo Hezter.
One way to get around limited ammo reserves in most Hetzer variants is to use caseless ammo, which is available even during Succession Wars-era gameplay. It effectively doubles your ammo count in exchange for a negligible chance of jamming the gun or getting blown up.
I think this is one where game rules don't account for what you could do with this. I'm thinking in urban fighting you could drive one of these in to a parking garage up to the level where the heads of mechs will be passing. Even if you only dome one mech before being discovered and flattened then you've already made back your cost. Plus if you win then that's good salvage. Kill the meat, save the metal.
Same goes for ground level. The low speed isn't really a problem for making your gettaway if the enemy is missing a leg.
Indeed. The colonies of Old Earth learned the urban mistakes of Old Earth, and planned for parking.
Ever since the new art came out, I can't shake the mental image that the Hetzer is just the Cybertronian alternate mode of the Hunchback.
Quoting a World of Tanks British Gnome RUclipsr: "Hetzer gonna Hetz."
Another great vid, MechFrog!👏👏👏
That quote from TRO 3026 about the construction process is priceless!😂 And price is exactly what was on Quickcell’s mind.
I have six, two Drac and four FWL (2nd Sirian Lancers) to represent units given inferior gear by their superiors. I love the Hetzer because it’s not (anywhere near) perfect. That gives it character😄
We’ve mainly used them as the basic model in AlphaStrike as it’s just 15 points each, or the LRM/SRM versions if we feel like splashing out a full 18 points per tank.
Thanks for using my models in the vid.
Lastly, I did not choose the StugLife.
The StugLife chose me.
Thank you for sharing the pics. It's always nice when I can add a few painted units to the vid.
This is "What if Battletech but Orks?"...+
Because a couple of these plus an SRM Carrier make your opponent think about going anywhere near your LRM Carriers
Soapbox of death deserves love. Always!
The missile variants are pretty good value. They are faster and more durable than the classic carriers. Especially important for the SRM one.
A professionally assembled Toyota pickup with a cannon welded inside it
All yours for 16 easy payments of 54,000 C-bills.
Quicksell aren't professionals
Srm hetzer is a light SRM carrier with 1.5 tons more armor and no turret, limiting its arc of fire but having one fewer location to spread that armor out over. A pretty good deal. It is however slightly MORE expensive than the light SRM carrier which is 824k. Howecer it's available innearlier eras because while thr light srm carrier lacks any advanced tech it is "officially" a 3060 design.
It's nice to have the option.
Great cheap little tank :-) combined arms are much more useful than most people know :-) thanks again gor another fun watch
Environmental sealing allow a vehicle to operate in vacuum like airless moons and planets as well underwater.
I remember these from my days playing MechCommander2, they weren't much of a threat, provided as long as you didn't let them get close. A couple of volleys of LRMs usually did the trick.
Yeh, keep your distance and apply damage liberally to the area.
Some designs never change. Battle Pancake will always be effective
If it works (barely), go with it.
Very surprised that the historical hetzer wasn't mentioned, but hey very cool little machine that could... on occasion.
been looking forward to this one. the hetzer is an AC/20 on wheels! what's not to love?!?!?!! I've been wanting to try one with AP rounds.
It's a strange looking duck, but I'm glad it has its fans.
The Hetzer is a really weird vehicle that only works in a niche role... but in that niche role, it's very cost effective.
Myself, I prefer the AC10 version due to the longer range, but I feel like the LRM version might be the most useful, given it can rain down indirect fire or lay minefields without being exposed to incoming fire.
In that regard, the Hetzer might be more akin to the Hunchback: The main variant carries an AC/20 and is very niche, but there's a variant for every occasion such as SRM-spam or LRM sprinklers.
I like the Hetzer, but that's mostly cause it's so unapologetical and bold about what it truly is.
I can say it makes a good infantry support vehicle, and M.A.S.H. or supply convoy protection unit.
It can be useful, for sure.
The MF is similar to the one I cooked up as OpFor in a campaign game. It was to reflect my feelings on the Nashorn back when I was playing World of Tanks: Trash vehicle, but the effective long range gun covers up a multitude of deficiencies the chassis may have.
Being able to hit at distance covers for quite a few sins.
My Capellans have moved onto Predator Tank Destroyers because also cheap but tracks and LB 20x
Great video! Hoping you do a Regulator hovertank video in the future. Looking forward to more videos.
I'm sure we will cover the Regulator at some point.
When we played campaigns in the past we only had C-Bills. This was long before BV or anything like that. So at around 600,000 C-Bills the Hetzer wasn't necessarily a bad thing. I mean if a pilot lost his mech in battle and would have otherwise been "dispossessed", being moved to the Hetzer crew might be a better option than anything else. It was rarely about what a Hetzer did in combat, but what it could do, the mere fact it had an AC20 meant a more conservative or risk-averse enemy would need to deal with it before closing the distance. So in this sense they could be used to protect fire support lances, or in urban environments where more combat could be expected to take place at closer ranges.
It definitely can be deadly if played like a crafty fox.
The Hetzer is an excellent urban defense vehicle on the cheap. Especially when they are paired with SRM Carriers or SRM Hetzers. Throw in some supporting infantry and you won't miss that the Hetzer doesn't have a secondary weapon. I certainly like the Hetzer for urban defense more than the Urbanmech. At least a Hetzer can outrun most Assault Mechs and tanks. The Urbanmech can't even outrun an Annihilator. The Urbanmech is just a slightly mobile turret, whereas the Hetzer is an actual mobile combat vehicle.
One short story that shows the Hetzer putting in good work is Hornet's Nest from "BattleTech: 25 Years of Art & Fiction ".
Lol. Love the qualifier "kinda." Makes perfect sense.
Pros: Cheaper (both BV and CB) than an Urbanmech. Incredible firepower for the cost. Decent speed (for a vehicle.)
Cons: Armor only so-so. Ammo supply can be an issue. no secondary weapons. Lack of maneuverability. It's a vehicle.
When you're defending an urban environment and your budget is so small even a Capellan quartermaster thinks it's stingy, then Hetzers are a decent (if desperate) choice.
Well put.
Forgot to memtion: my custom variant goes 5/8, has a fuel cell, and a front firing UAC/20.
8 tons of Heavy Ferro Fibrous Armor.
1.35 million C-Bills. Not too shabby!
One tough cookie.
@@MechanicalFrog it's served me well. I like your MF Gauss version too!
What's not to love about an armored gun on wheels? 🤔
Fair point.
@@MechanicalFrog I will say I only ever use the AC-10, and the Rotary AC-5 versions. The AC-20 doesn't have the range to be anything other then an ambush predator. 👍
The muzzle pointed at you.
@@rmcdudmk212 The basic Hetzer is very much like its namesake. Low and slow, but easy to overlook until it opens fire. It's a proper Bushwhacker! *pause* Sorry, can't say that, some sneaky battlemech grabbed that name.....
@@observationsfromthebunker9639 ha ha that's a good one 😂
My god, the Hetzer is on fire...
Followed by a discussion on "how to check and adjust tire pressure"
"The Hetzer is on fire..."
Again!?
My two cents:
A) The Lore stuff is a lot of fun, but shouldn't influence one too much as a player. Some of the game specs are ok enough. If you want to make it work with your head cannon, your command puts any Quikcell product through a detailed maintenance refit before acceptance.
B) The LRM 15 variant is definitely worth considering. I am a big fan of using vehicles for long range support, particularly for LRM needs. 4/6 is ok for those uses, and while being wheeled is not ideal, for an LRM truck it's less of a problem. Particularly if you can get a veteran crew into it and use jump infantry squads to spot for indirect fire. It's almost half the BV of a Trebuchet, and like a fifth of the C-Bills.
C) It keeps its value going into advanced tech eras, because it keeps being very cheap, and eventually it benefits from TAG/semi-guided missiles. It will also benefit from NARC early on, and while NARC is not easy to use, it ought to mess with the other players' heads, and it's FUN.
D) Units like it are a VERY flavourful counter to the Clans and advanced tech "Yes your Gladiator B is Terrifying, but I can have two lances of Hetzer LRM15s pepper it (plus plenty of jump infantry to spot), and 4+ Grasshoppers Ns to fire PPCs as it closes and jump at it/brawl at close range after it's been worn down for the same cost." *aprox figures.
Congrats on being able to palaver with the Tex Man. You are officially a cool BT dude. 😎 The Hetzer is popular and fun because it is what it is. Yes, it's a shoe box with an airsoft gun mounted on a roller skate. Yes, it's only half a Demolisher. But hey, that's why it's there! For much less than half the price of a Demolisher, you get a self-propelled AC 20 that can take a hit or two, has a lower height profile than most of the overgunned MBTs, and is an acceptable loss if it goes up in smoke. Did we mention it has an AC 20? That's right, it has a weapon guaranteed to make a mechwarrior take notice, because if he ignores the shoebox hunkered down in cover, he might suddenly be on the ground wondering what happened to his 'mech's leg. The big nutcracker also ensures that a Hetzer can intimidate most of the enemy AFVs in its general weight class. (How many AFVs in the 30-50 ton range can safely swap shots with a Hetzer at 4 hexes?) And like I said, it's a shruggable loss; trading a lance of them for limping enemy battlemechs is worth it, and a kill shot makes it a real David versus Goliath value. And the Hetzer is definitely a solid design, because all the mods are basically "swap basic AC 20 for different big weapon." The best 3025 alts are the LRM 15 version, which is a superior Hunter, and the SRM 6 boat, which is worth it just for the enemy player's expression when it unmasks at 3 hexes and shoots! The best later alts are the Ultra AC 20 (more dakka), LBX-20 (more batchall dakka), and RAC 5 (spent casing fountain erupting from shoebox).
Thank you. It was a great conversation and I'm lucky to be able to call Tex a friend.
The Hetzer is an interesting vehicle. I always think of it as the modern pike formation: not necessarily there to do damage but to shape the battlefield as a semi-mobile land mass. Hetzers will break down, they will die, but they're also cheap enough for that to not really matter. Once you get to larger formations they start to shine as they can force enemies into making a decision between focusing down a potentially devastating speedbump or a consistently good battlemech. As long as they cover useful fire positions before they mobility crit they become that craw in an enemy's position.
The LRM and AC10 variants are just good since they have the range to reach out and touch someone. They're good vehicles for what they are, even if they're just glorified technicals.
Heard on the BPL pod. Keep up the good work
Awesome! Thank you!
Good title. One doesn't really love Quikcell's products.
Kind of tolerate them until you can buy something better...
During the Blakist era,the WOB didn't bother to destroy Quicksell facilities. Quicksell was bought out by larger companies and quality improved.
I love the frog variation units! I always have new things to throw at my players. ;)
Glad you like them!
The Hetzer is one of those tanks. ICE engine, autocannon. The tech involved in producing a Hetzer can be found on any world in the Inner Sphere. Heck, most periphery worlds can produce the Hetzer if they try. Quicksel is the company most known to produce the Hetzer, but its a common design that could be produced anywhere. What the Hetzer is most famous for is the low cost for the firepower it provides.
While the Hetzer is also known as a rolling coffin, it is what most milita commanders look for in a tank. Cheap, threatening, and disposable. The light armor means it won't stand up to a protracted fight. Honestly a Hetzer is lucky if it gets through 1 ton of ammo before it gets destroyed. Nobody ignores an AC/20 rolling around their mech. While being a wheeled vehicle severely limits where the Hetzer should be deployed, it means it generally is found in its most effective terrane: urban. Using buildings to limit engagement distance and ambushing from cover make the Hetzer deadly and very cost effective.
A lone Hetzer is a target. There isn't much under 50 tons that you'll make a higher priority target than a Hetzer. The AC/20 offers that much psychological pressure. A Hetzer makes an excellent bodyguard for LRM equipped units like the LRM Carrier and even the Archer. Most pilots would rather take out the lightly armored Hetzer before turning to concentrate on the LRM unit it came here to eliminate in the first place. And the reason to like cheap units like the Hetzer is because you want to field a lot of units. Hetzers work well in packs. Nothing like getting chased down by a company of Hetzers using wave tactics.
this has long been a favorite vehicle of mine. i like to imagine if you stripped armor and counterweight, and put in a HAG20, the hetzer would flip and fly off like its an object hit with the physics gun
Found a way for it to travel quickly.
@@MechanicalFrog All things are possible to those with sufficient lack of self preservation!
AC-15 seems like the correct choice for units whose firepower outweighs armor or speed.
Cannon skateboard is love.
Hello Frog.
Ah, the Hetzer. I just don't understand the hate for this vehicle. Way, way back, in the dim mists of time (roughly 1985 or so) I used Hetzer 'tanks' to my advantage on the tabletops. Just about any time I could defend on a planet, I would choose an urban setting and entrenched Hetzers, along with a few faster and more mobile units.
Believe me, my amphibian friend, luring the enemy into such an ambush is a thing of beauty. A pair of Medium Mechs to do long ranged damage and fall back into the urban area, intentionally falling back from even an 'even' match, usually ended with the foe charging into 'town' and facing massed AC20 fire from the Hetzers. And if they chose to run, fast movers like Wasps, Singers, Spiders, and Locusts usually would slow 'em down enough for the Hetzers to roll forwards and finish the foe's forces off.
With the low cost of the Hetzer, I could afford to practically flood the field of battle in the over-gunned tin cans.
I have had fair results using the SRM and LRM Hetzers as well, and your MF variant... well, consider that Yoinked for field-testing.
I have always been one for low-cost units, for the most part in my forces. Being able to better afford to lose units and replace them easily, is far, far better, in my estimation, than relying upon single and hugely expensive units. Yes, I know. I have a 'rep' for fielding massive numbers of Locusts at foes as well. But that does illustrate my point.
The Hetzer concept is not 'bad', but should have been applied to a unit that was 10 tons heavier. A 50 ton variant would have more tonnage to work with, and thus be a 'better' overall unit. But, one makes so with the crap available. I would guess that the Hetzer is thought of by most as: 'Throw enough crap at a wall and some will stick'. Or, perhaps: 'Eggshells armed with sledgehammers'.
It is not really about the fact that the factory that makes them, makes such shoddy examples of war materials, but in how one can use such an inexpensive unit effectively. Hetzers should NEVER be used in anything but forests, dense forests, Jungles, and Urban settings. Most of their manufacturing flaws can be easily fixed by any good Mech-tech, or Repair Bay personnel. Even good batteries can be found for replacement of the factory default units.
The Hetzer can be a damned annoying and outright dangerous unit for any attacker. And Planetary Defense Forces can afford to literally buy them by the gross. Yes, each one would need about 100 hours of repairs and upgrades before fielding them in actual battle, but any half way decently trained mechanic can fix a Hetzer. Once 'repaired' to operationa standards, the Hetzer is fairly reliable, easily fixed both in the field and at base, and cheap to replace if totally destroyed.
The AC20 is a well established design and very reliable. And, it is just about the most expensive single component of the vehicle. If your planet has any kind of good, heavy industry, every component of the Hetzer is easily replaced if damaged, for relatively low costs. If you have the foundries to make Hezter and AC20 parts, you have enough electronics knowledge to build all the targeting and sensor units that the vehicle uses. So, again, the Hetzer is easily supported by local manufacturing in most cases. And where that is not true, the costs to ship in replacement parts is relatively minor in comparison to shipping in more advanced unit's components.
Say what you will about the Hetzer... a properly 'repaired', maintained, and well supplied Hezter force will deny enemy forces entry into cities nine times out of ten. And be able to protect facilities like your heavy industry as well. Bandits purely HATE Hetzers. Especially 'repaired' ones that can sit for days, hidden in place, only to fire up their ICE engines and blow large holes into expensive battlemechs.
I agree and have used the hetzer in much the same way!
This guy gets it!
If I stuck a Drone Control System inside the Hetzer so I could remote control a bunch of them or set up remote ambush positions, that could be interesting
Dunno... Is using prisoners cheaper?
@@MechanicalFrog Unless they're Clanners taken as Bondsmen, no. You don't want resentful people forced to fight in charge of fire control and target selection. Even if they're not trying to get payback, they're not going to be in the best headspace. Lying in wait with a big cannon is hard enough when you're not being forced to..
No, better to use the prisoners as bargaining chips or advertising of your kindness by letting them leave.
My Hetzer variant is a whopping 4.3-million C-bills, according to my Mech Factory app. The Hetzer ISM utilizes Clan technology in pretty much everything but the one weapon it has. Clan XL engine, Clan FF armor, Clan standard structure (which is obviously superior to the IS standard structure), Clan single heat sinks (again, obviously superior to the IS single HS). It has an engine supercharger, and a dune buggy chassis; I don't know why I did that chassis, it just sounded cool and takes up no space and no tonnage. It has a movement profile of 4[3]/6[6], and Clan CASE to protect it from weapon/ammo explosions. It carries a Clan Light Active Probe in the body, with a Lyran-designed Heavy Gauss Rifle and 5 tons of ammo in the front. I kept it wheeled instead of making it tracked because, well, it was already costly enough. The bright side is that if you put the Hetzer ISM in reverse and gun the engine when you fire the Heavy Gauss, you might have just barely enough push to get out of the line-of-fire from anyone shooting at you from the sides - provided you're in an urban environment to begin with. Although, seriously, why would anyone waste money mounting a monstrous thing like a heavy gauss and an XL engine - Clan or otherwise - on a cheap projection of firepower?
"Oh Hetzer what are we gonna do with you?"
Does it involve a ramp?
A ramp and probably a tow hitch.
Damn it. Now I have mental images of a Hetzer starring in Dukes of Hazard and ramping over stuff...
Stunt jump to have Hetzer take out a Super Heavy 'mech? It could happen!
At least for those soldiers who were issued garbage guns, they could salvage a replacement if they lived long enough. That's likely a little trickier when you're a tank crew.
Great video, by the way. Good day!
Thank ya!
Here's my version:
Remove the ICE for a Fuel Cell engine of the same power output. This would get rid of the problems related to the crappy battery and it saves weight.
Replace the AC/20 for an MRM 30 with an Apollo FCS and three tons of ammo. CASE is added to protect from ammo explosions.
The armor profile is redesigned with 7.5 tons of FF armor, allowing a turret with two Small Pulse Lasers to be installed on the roof, for the commander. Three extra Heat Sinks are needed, on top of the one all Fuel Cell engines come with by default.
The truck wheeled chassis and overall weight are left as they were. The new design's price is 958,600 C-Bills, or about a 44% increase in cost.
Thoughts?
I like it. Could be quite dangerous in numbers.
I love the Hetzer. It's cheap, effective, and you can buy them in droves. It the wheeled diet sized version of the Demolisher.
The more the merrier...
I have used Hetzer in introduction games to new players. I give n00b some 'Mechs and have him play against my Hetzer platoon. I like the range of AC/10 variant, and the number of ammo bins gives options for special ammo types. Increased armor is somewhat useless as the thing gets immobilised before armor gives out. LRM variant is also cool and faster than LRM Carrier. Little disappointed you didn't have a photo of Jagdpanzer 38 which is also called Hetzer.
Clicked for the Hetzing, liked for the reference to my favourite Soviet boondoggle.
The only real challenge is deciding which soviet boondoggle to choose...
@@MechanicalFrog The one that was a tech-sink and pride project with the only real point being that of punching through the Fulda Gap and then no one caring whether it would still have gas, that barely saw adoption before the fall of the Soviet Union and then became a millstone so bad that one of the first upgrades was to put a diesel engine in it to make it slightly less thirsty, is a quaility choice IMHO.
Honestly, AC 10 hetzer with 4 tons specialty ammo, 7 tns amor. could be fun.
A Lance of Hetz MF on a hill with cover wouold be a serious PITA for a light / medium unit
I remember the Baron. I was thinking of getting the boxset that had these. Now I'm seriously reconsidering and looking at something different. If I do end up with these, I'll reassign these to 2nd Battalion of my Regiment.
The four wheeled motorized definition of "take no shit give no shit" wünderbar
I mean if you're trusting a company that the decided to go with the name " Quickscell", I can't help but feel that you're only getting exactly what you paid for, barely assembled an all.
That said, I kind of like the idea of the Hetzer, in a twisted kind of way. It basically answers the question of "How do we get the biggest gun to the front with the lowest possible cost?", while throwing on just enough extra widgets to not make it too obvious that was the your sole concern.
Why? I mean look at it! It's like someone slapped a gun onto every R/C car I've ever owned. Adorable!
Yes, it is quite terrible a vehicle, but, at the end of the day a Hetzer hiding in the upper levels of a parking garage at head-hight of a mech is a surprise wake-up call you only really encounter once.
do YOU have a wheeled urbie?
Not yet...
Slap on a partial wing as a spoiler.
As I was painting my batch of Hetzers I thought to myself: "I should ask MechFrog to cover this vehicle". Love its lore, don't care its pretty much crap, I've got a soft spot for the real hetzer, and this BT iteration is also a great machine. Very nice catalyst re-work of the art. Actually its the Mechfrogs fault I've come to love all the ground vehicles of the BT universe.
As a GM player I don't have the pressure to win a game, and my AC10 Hetzer killed a mech in one shot xD. Cheers
This is the way.
@@MechanicalFrog unless the way leads through woods terrain cause those wheels are nit gonna cut it :P
It's very easy to rebuild it as a tracked unit. Fuel Cell; 4/6/0 move; Armour:(F) 32; (Sides) 26/26; (Rear) 20. Weapons: GR(F) with 3 tons ammo; MG(F); MG(LS/RS) with 0.5 tons ammo. BV: 839 Cost: 1,118,883 C-Bills.
Standard for me was to strip the cannon and slap LRM20 with a C3 slave unit instead. Movement 4/6 is suicidal on a wheeled vehicle with "meh" armor.
Leichter Panzerjäger 38(t): That's my descendant!
(Thank you for the work you put into this video, I enjoyed it quite a bit. I want to like the Hetzer really bad because I can see why it’s made, it’s the Urbanmech of vehicles but it’s somehow worse. I do really like the more balanced versions like the AC10 version and the Cell version.)
Thanks for the history lesson to go along the combat vehicle lecture! For once I actually have a story for the class, or whatever the stars this all is. You see a LOT of these things out in the Periphery, the Capellans dumped a lot of their old stocks out here. You’ll find them in militia units, mercenary companies, and pirate bands. Because as long as it shoots and drives it’s useful. I’ve fought these things a lot and even alongside them more than once. Like any weapon if you use them smart and fit their intended purpose they arnt great but they arnt terrible. If you don’t… well you won’t be around long enough to worry about it. So this story is not about them being used right.
So my families Merc unit got hired by the MAF to deal with a little problem of theirs, a pirate band lead by a wanna be bandit king had seized control of a relatively prosperous periphery planet that the Magistracy had been eying to set up a trade and protection treaty with. They wanted their potential client back and a this future pain in their ass dealt with, and they were willing to pay good c-bills to see it done.
So after a whole bunch of fun cloak and dagger stuff involving capturing one of the pirates bird dog drop ships and stowing away on it with a gun literally pointed at the captains head while he lied as fast as possible to get us on the ground. We managed to land on planet and secure the landing port with speed, surprise, and a whole lot of overwhelming violence. So as we started to dig in and unload our heavy kit, we found ourselves under attack by the garrison that said bandit king to be had left in the capital city which was a few miles from the space port for safety reasons. Which was a bit of a shock since we knew they were pretty low quality.
So it turn out that these “garrison troops” were basically whatever scum the pirates had managed to drag out of the local prisons and asylums for the criminal insane then given them guns, they were told to keep the city under control or else they’d be introduced to the foot of a mech. You can imagine how nasty they got trying to maintain their new Masters law and order. So the moment the local population figured they might have a chance a freedom, they started fighting back hard and introducing their oppressors to the business end of a rope hanging from a lamp post. So faced with a whole city trying to murder them, a group of mercenary in control of the space port, and a boss that was half a planet away who’d probably kill them for failing. These assholes decided their best chance of living was an all out assault on the space port before we could finish unloading our mechs and heavy armors. Either wipeout our bridgehead or seize a dropship to try to run for it in.
So they threw themselves at us with way more desperation than skill, they were mostly made up of a lot of poorly trained and even worse disciplined infantry backed up by some very old apcs and tanks. Which gave our own infantry quite a fight, at least until we managed to unload one of Sergeant Herrera’s Firestarter and she got to have her fun.
Anyway back to the Hetzer, these scum had a full company of old and poorly maintained Hetzers that were the core of their assualt. They tried to use these things like tanks, firing on the move as they pushed forward while infantry advanced behind them. That went extremely poorly for them. Those machines could have given us a real fight if they’d dug into the city and they were intimidating as hell for keeping the locals under control but they are just to slow for much else. We salvaged some of them although I’m not sure it’s worth the effort and I know we ripped the AC 20 out of a few of them and installed a bigger and faster engine to use them as makeshift scout cars. Probably not the best use of them but hey we’re are armored cavalry unit and we’re sure as hell not putting any of our girls and boys in those stock rolling coffins.
Meanwhile Saladin be like:
"I'm fast as fukk boii!"