The Evolution of DREADNOUGHT ARMOUR | Warhammer 40k Lore
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- Опубликовано: 14 дек 2023
- Dreadnought suits are an iconic part of Warhammer 40,000 - a mortally wounded Space Marine kept alive by technology that's as much a life-support system as it is a suit of armour. So let's look into how Dreadnoughts - and their models - have changed over their ten thousand years of use.
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Copyright: Unless noted in the video, all images © Games Workshop 1987-2022. Title music is 'Black Rainbows' by Karl Casey @White Bat Audio
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In my opinion, you’re the best lore-tuber when it comes to condensing these expansive topics into palatable chunks. Your ability to “trim the fat” whilst still being precise and super-entertaining is top notch.
Ian calls it fluff, so he can be the best fluff-tuber outright.
My favourite thing about Ian's videos is how he weaves the history of the lore with the history of the minis. It's such an eminently sensible way to think about GW stuff, lore grounded in hobby, I love it.
I really love the classic, blocky and somewhat awkward look of the Castraferrum Dreadnought. Like a walking coffin of tubes and metal. I don't think the newer Primaris models quite manage to recreate that vision of unpractical coolness. Would kill for an upscale of the MK IV or MK V in models.
As with so many Primaris versions of pre-existing models, the thought was there, but the realisation has issues. The infantry has great proportions, but lost its grimdark flair. The guns just got bigger and have more thingies attached to them. In general, Primaris units are bristling with weapons to the point of it being ridiculous.
They are slowly getting better at making them fit the setting, but it's far from what the classics exude.
@marcwittkowski5146 yeah the amount of weapons on Primaris is kinda silly to me. Especially when they often have more guns per model then orks, the supposed "over the top" faction
I feel Redemptors really lose the religious-sci-fi aesthetic of space marines and just goes all in to sci-fi, so they end up losing what makes space marine stuff unique. Looks like something you’d mistake for being in a different sci-fi series, whereas the ridiculous chunkiness and all the religious tassels of a castraferrum is immediately recognizable as 40k
@@flameconvoy7424 I agree completely. Redemptors look more like regular mechas and less like the big boxes of hurt they're supposed to be. The Dreadnought concept is one of the most "grimdark" thing in the setting in my opinion. They should be made to look the part.
I especially like the Castraferrum "box-naughts" better than the Contemptors, because of how the former do a better job of highlighting how awful a fate being entombed in a Dreadnaught is. Contemptors at least give the marine a roughly humanoid shape, and thus a kind of dignity. As if they've entered a new stage of their lives, rather than keeping their old ones on life support.
The "Box-naughts" LOOK like coffins on legs. Even in death, the marine is not granted the dignity of either the lost humanity or a peaceful rest. They're dragged onto the battlefield, again and again, in depersonalizing shells that cut them off form the outside world. The only means by which they can interact with the "outside" is through their weapons of war.
The accoutrements adorning a Dreadnaught's frame only serve to highlight the disconnect between themselves and their comrades. They aren't _people_ to the other marines. They're walking shrines to the _idea_ of them as individuals. Forced to wake only when something needs killing. Their speakers less a disability aid, and more an oracle speaking the will of ancient ancestors. Another layer of removal from the person shackled within a tank of freezing liquid.
The Castraferrum is archetypal of the cruelty of the Imperium. Even in death, a warrior cannot know peace. For their mausoleum itself is a weapon of war. A brutalist monument to the Imperium's Cult of Death.
I really enjoyed how you paused and stepped out of "in world" here. The real world context for the lore is one of the things which I really enjoy about your videos.
I'm sure like many people, if I see one of your uploads I'm going to watch it, even on a topic I would not have thought was interesting beforehand!
Keep up the good work!
Ian is great at this. He doesn't just skim wiki articles and present them as just-so stories, but rather considers the gradual development of the setting.
I love dreadnoughts. They're such delightfully grimdark things, in a good way.
I’ve liked Dreadnoughts since I first read a fanfic where Bjorn The Fell-Handed was featured heavily; the characterization of him as a tired old veteran just so *done* with everyone’s shit was really well done, but they also portrayed his struggle very well also. Every time he’s awoken for either a battle or a judgment over ten thousand years the world becomes more alien around him, more people worshipping the Emperor and denying the Imperial Truth that he gave *both* of his lives for.
And anyone in this comment section who hasn’t seen the brief SFM Animation ‘Death of a Dreadnought’, I would advise you do so.
Again, what I love most about this channel, beyond it just being such a great source for lore, is that Ian never forgets that this is still... A game. And that a lot of what is now beloved lore was invented to sell a game.
I forgot how that intro tune just SLAPS
It’s so somber yet relentless
man i just really love how you weave the in-world history and our-world history together. Its so cool to put everything in the perspective of the history of the game itself.
This video is a good example of Arbitor Ian going into more depth about the real world factors behind why Warhammer background lore turned out the way it did, like the active decisions made by Games Workshop's designers and writers, than most other WH youtubers do. I also appreciate Snipe & Wib for doing the same in their "Oldhammer" videos, while we're at it.
Workday is horrible but seeing Ian talking about dreads for seventeen minutes made it all ok.
Excellent video. Dreads are definitely one of the grimmest bits of grimdark in 40K.
I’m still upset that I got my Chaplain dreadnought finished just in time for it to be moved to Legends.
Something I always found cool about the OG Boxnought is how much it contrasted with Eldar Wrathlords.
Where Wraithlords are tall, sleek, and agile vessels for Spirit Stones, Dreadnoughts were squat, industrial, and ungainly life support coffins for what remained of a great Space Marine warrior.
He never misses, the absolute legend!
amazing video i love tech in the 40k universe especially those "robot" like things from eldar esepcially i love all the wraith walkers titans like constructs
I prefer Venerable dreadnaughts. More coffin feel than robot feel.
That is actually the mk4 dreadnought, it is the ”headnought”. Meanwhile mk5 is the coffin one.
Wow, I didn't know the design of the Contemptor Dreadnought was actually that old! I thought it was invented when they came up with the Horus Heresy 28mm models back in 2012, but I didn't think they dated back to Space Marine/Epic.
me neither!
I missed this intro music, as always a good vid 😊
Ian, thank you for the videos you produce, they are brilliant. Even though I stepped away from the game years ago, it's the goddamn lore, I can't escape the lore of the 40k. I keep coming back to it.
Those original 3 Dreads are still, to me, the best thing ever. I love the other Dreads too, but when those were advertised and then I was able to buy them, well, it was a feeling of awesomeness and excitement that I never had so strongly again. ❤👍
I love how Orks have always based their Dreadnoughts on those of the Astartes, if in a much more debased form.
It is such a wonderful summation of what 40K is. Dreadnoughts are so much more powerful and malleable than even Space Marines, and this power comes at a mental cost, degrading the user and using them, just as the rest of the Imperium does.
Nothing like an army of these lovely boxes clanging around the battlefield
Damn.. Poor Thule, to end up like this..
My favorite individual dreadnought is The Warmonger of the Word Bearers. He's well-written so that you can see both his use as a mentor and his slow descent into madness. Not to mention the sanity difference between him and the helbrutes of the Word Bearers. Great video as always.
This is gonna be useful for me - I've had to delay working on my pirate army for a good while cause school got pretty intense for a bit; but I'm getting back to it and using Dreadnought chassis as the basis for my Leman Russ walkers. Getting a better idea about the original vehicle will help me find ways to modify them to make it more obvious that while the core component may be salvaged and stolen Dreadnought bits... this thing ain't a Dreadnought anymore.
Thank you Ian for your continued awesome work!
Great video. Concise and entertaining. Keep up the good work.
Recommending Ian is easy. Most folks don't have time to spend 2 hours on the Horus Heresy or Space Marine chapters.
Loved dreadnoughts since using them on the dawn of war pc games, never realised they were essentially coffins! Speaking of dawn of war, please could you do a deep dive/breakdown of the mysterious blood ravens and their origin?
As far as I remember the blood ravens were a chapter initially created for the dawn of war games and retroactively made canon after the popularity of the games. Their in-universe lore is deliberately scuffed and incomplete because their real world lore is essentially a retcon
Love the looks of the Contempter and the Leviathan and the Boxnoughts have always made me giggle a bit because of how ungainly they look but at the same time loved the idea behind them
Thanks. This is something I always wanted to know more about.
This is excellent. This video is going to get referenced when people discuss what a Warhammer 40k lore video should be. Also, you inadvertently reminded me of the short story "Into the Maelstrom" from the Black Library. I was quite young then. First time I had encountered that existential horror.
According to the Mission Dreadnought Rule book for Space Crusade, the Chaos Dreadnoughts have their own names and designations:
MarkVII - Malevolent (2 heavy weapons, short legs)
MarkVIII - Marauder (2 heavy weapons, long legs)
MarkIX - Dominator (4 heavy weapons, short legs)
MarkX - Abomination (4 heavy weapons, long legs)
They're never called something straight forward like Kevin, are they?
Always reminded me of the red shadows escape armour in action force when i first saw 40k.
Absolutely the best narration on youtube, so engaging and informative. Love your manner 👌🏽
I can't remember which book it was, probably Galaxy in Flames, but Rylanor was described as either a Mk IV or V Dreadnought. A few lines describing his "box-shaped silhouette". Even possibly in Fulgrim he was described as the same, which is curious as the cover art shows an Iron Hands contemptor. I thought it was just a case the book came before contemptors being accepted as older variants of dreadnoughts, as I wasn't aware that Mk IV/V were common during the HH. Obviously for a while now Rylanor has been described and shown as a contemptor, the same as other Dreadnoughts of 30k. Makes me think perhaps he is meant to be a Mk IV or V.
I'm not that knowledgeable about dread but is it possible to move a sarcophagus between dreadnought patterns? Like he was sometimes in a castraferrum and others in a contemptor depending on the tactical situation.
Or its just a mistake and/or retcon by GW, it would be the first time 😆
@@Yurt_enthusiast7 I think that the episode with Rylanor, Fulgrim and the Thousand Sons should be accepted as Rylanor's official lore, as it's the character's most infamous moment. I haven't read that fully, so I don't know myself. If he is described as a contemptor then he's a contemptor, full stop. If not, then I'd argue his original description as a Mk IV/V applies. He'll always be a contemptor in my mind though.
I still own a og chaos "ball" dread and its so old the superglue failed lol it was fun nostalgia to rebuild it and give it some freah paint. Great vid as always!
Saw you in warhammer world yesterday but you looked busy hope you had a great day!
Great video btw
Enjoyed your appearance on painting phase
I always enjoy your videos! Easy to watch and enjoy.
My favorite dreadnought is The Curseborn with the Space Wolves chapter. They just found what they THOUGHT was dreadnought running around screaming on a planet by itself and went: "This is precious, it is ours now." Thanks for the video.
Needs more about killa kans or deff dreads, those are dreadnoughts, right?
ArbiterIan, you are an absolute treasure. Thanks for these astounding videos!
Great video! Here's some algo engagement tribute for you citizen.
Yes Ian. Great Video. Best Warhammer Lore on RUclips!
I just wish I could remember a fraction of the lore.
I have never seen your channel. Some feedback..
Your speaking peace of perfect
Use of art and Editing also. Brilliant.
You seem to appreciatethe lore and take it seriously even though it's just fun.
I really like it. You have earned my sub.
Happy Christmas 💯❤️🤖💯
Man this channel is awesssome!!!!
Best history topic yet, great watch, thanks Ian
Bro...that was straight up fucking ED-209!!
Cawls most important addition to dreadnorts... knees :)
Hey Ian. Is there any chance you could include a bit about where to read this stuff if we want? Dont need a full citation, just a bit of text saying "read about them in this codex/book". At the moment its kinda hard to find that stuff if i wanted too.
Great video!
Amazing dude just amazing love your content.
Well this is my drive home from work later sorted! Perfect timing
Imagine spending hundreds of years fighting constant battles against unimaginable horrors without rest. Then finally you are struck down and you are content that your duty is finally done... and then you wake up in a box used as a battery for a robot.
Excellent as always.
Great survey of the iconic 40k units, Ian. The only things I would add are from Rogue Trader. Firstly, Dreadnought Armor wasn't only a human technology. Ork Killa Kans and Eldar Wraith Guards were refered to as Dreadnoughts. Nor was it's use in the Imperium limited to Space Marines. The RT rules describe and illustrate the Furibundus Dreadnought in Imperial Army (later Imperial Guard) service.
" EVEN IN DEATH I STILL SERVE "
Strictly speaking, the Epic-scale Dreads in the modern Contemptor style only appeared with the plastic Epic Stompers box in late 1991, shortly after the second edition of Space Marine and a couple of years after the first edition. Before that, it was all tiny metal ball Dreads, which had come along with the first Epic-scale vehicle releases at the beginning of 1989.
Hi! Loving your work as usual. I think it would be great to have a video on the 40k pantheon. I just found out Isha is being held captive by Nurgle to test all his nasty stuff on!? Maybe similar to your primarch video where we can see how active in the current 40k plot they are. Cheers for all the great content!
Pour one out for the Castraferrum, it won't be long for this world
The Contemptor is my favourite
While I'm not sure if there is any real word on the actual origin of the technology before DAoT and the Unification Wars (like how Terminator armor in lore is indicated to be a brutish application of what was originally extreme environment mining equipment), it is possible to theorize.
The sarcophagus seems like it could potentially originate from some type of life support system for salvaging grotesquely injured patients, likely intended to be only temporary until extensive medical aid could be provided. It's safe to assume that ancient pre-Dark Age humanity would have had the knowledge and technology to disconnect humans without undue damage, and likely the strain would have been basically nonexistent in a sealed sarcophagus with minimal neural connections. It's unlikely that humanity before everything went to hell had much interest in putting brutally maimed casualties in walking killer fridges.
The neurally interfaced systems and the larger robotic unit could have had any number of uses, and are in and of themselves not all that strange as ideas for any number of (non-violent or violent) fields. It's likely that the original units would have had a different type of control pod, like the ones used by regular humans during the Unification Wars. Again, it's safe to assume that they were not a permanent and inseparable connection, and quite possibly the operator would have had specialized implants or other adaptations to make interfacing much less grim.
An alternative idea is that the original Dread chassis tech was intended to be AI controlled, or at the very least was adapted from AI-controlled robots. Mechanicus has very similar types of robotic walkers. In which case the trajectory of weaponization would maybe have been something like life support system + neural interface technology + suitable robotic chassis.
Basically what I'm saying is that this could have started with increasingly backwards technobarbarians essentially bolting a superscientific hospital bed onto a broken AI-operated robo-forklift and then hotwiring it, since the connections on the bed worked nicely to make Bob drive the robot with his mind. And then making Bob (who drew the shortest straw) drive over the enemy until his head explodes. Likely they found other ways to do so as well, crude and nasty applications. Who's to say you need a dedicated sarcophagus at all if you can just bolt the necessary cables into someone's motor cortex.
Dreadnoughts are just the most "40k" thing in 40K, aren't they. Your the most amazing fighter in the chapter, centuries of loyal and hard service to the Emperor and a blast to the gut stops you. Your getting the glorious and well earned death, your duty done and the Emperor would be proud. But your Chapter has other ideas, and entombed you in a walking coffin to continue the fight, your services still needed, and all the while cranking up the torment. And so you go again, and again. Duty never ends.
Reminded now of an oglaf comic in which a skeleton is summoned by a necromancer. Among the other sword wielding skeletons is a lone skeleton with ankles sticking out of a coffin. The necromancer demands what that is for, and the skeleton proudly declares armor. The necromancer then demands to know how it could fight in that. A small latch opens up, and a tiny crossbow pokes out to fire a bolt at the lich (because it didn't kill him?). Enraged the lich sends the other skeletons after him. The coffin covered skeleton jumps off a cliff into a ravine and has turned the coffin into an improvised canoe and paddles away. The last panel has the skeleton advertising the versatility of the utility coffin and states that it's a good investment since being dead isn't a guarantee that one will be left alone.
it's an extreme version of the Robocop concept, now that I think of it, notice that the first Robocop movie premiered in the same year as the 1st edition of WH40K hit the shelves
I think the space xrusade Dreadnaughts are essentially War Dogs at this point arent they? Maybe the case of a Caiphus Cain esque oversimplification of calling anything robotic and Dreadnaught sized a dreadnought
Great video. Kinda wish you'd touched on the Invictor Warsuit too. It's not technically a dreadnought but just look at it! It's clearly a dreadnought chassis.
It's more akin to a Sentinel.
@@dekai7992 if sentinels were built on dreadnought chassis, yes.
Ball Dreadnought is the real Dreadnought :)
Wow…learned new stuff today…
Centuries of experience and they still hit on a 3+ 😅 I know tabletop rules don’t reflect lore, but this thought just made me giggle to myself.
Exactly what I needed to find the enthusiasm again and keep on working on my flamyboy redemptor
11:55 reminds me of ED-209
Is there anything on Daggan, a dreadnought chapter master or just the usual, died at Baal?
The opening cinematic to dawn of war is awesome bit of Dreadnaught fighting.
I hope we start getting chapter specific Dreadnoughts on the Redemptor chasis, maybe even make a new Chaplain dread just for the Templars?
Given the satirical nature of early 40K, there's an interesting thematic element to the pre-Astartes dreadnought concept as a metaphor for the training and indoctrination of the modern soldier as a "warfighter" and, when the soldier is removed from a warzone environment, the dissonance of returning to civilian life and the posttraumatic stress that can come from their experiences.
Basically the idea that, as weapons "advance", the soldiers most prepared to wield and oppose those weapons are the least able to live away from the battlefield.
The Red Corsairs use the Dreadnaught sarcophagus as a form of punishment iirc the short story I read correct.
Hey! No mention of the fact that originally, the Imperial guard, and even Rogue Traders had access to them? For shame Ian 😅
Castraferrum represent!! Justice for the boxnaughts!
I listened to a short story recently about a Primaris marine being intured in a dreadnaught and i did not envy them what so ever
Which was it?
you should do knights next
Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I think the only depiction of a dreadnought ‘pilot’ in miniature is the one on Qin Xa’s scenic base. 🤔
Thank you.
Dreadnought go brrrr
If only GW didnt give dreadnaughts the boot
still have tons of the old HH tcg. it wasn't bad
Love your lore videos, I’d really like to see some Xenos Lore !
Do you think the early Redemptor Dreadnoughts were incapable of housing Firstborn and they just got something like a software update or are the ones Firstborn can use a different one?
I'm big fan of the mecha anime, when i saw for first time a dread , i love it, was a shock, normally the japans are esthetics, the usa one are like a construction machine, but the dread was a very angry box
Well, now I want to know if anyone’s making STLs of the first edition dreadnoughts!
Well, the pilot isn't really *dead*, they are basically on life-support due to their injuries.
You are incorrect about the timing of the model design shape. The codex titanicus book which brought the dreadnought rules to Space Marine still used the original ball designs. I have both the book and the metal models. The epic models you show are not until the 3rd version of the space marine plastics.
When will the Anchorite return to the setting?
Here's a thought - are there any imperial dreadnoughts whose pilot goes back to the heresy? (Barring Rylanor.)
Bjorn!
@@ArbitorIan Thanks, not so hot on the wolves lore for reasons that remain obscure.
angry mailboxes
Games Workshop lore is often as interesting as 40k lore.
Tip top
Still think they should be bigger with a name like that.
where's ur intro music?
It's funny (in a very dark humour kind of way!) that in the far future they have lost the ability to control things with their hands and instead have to be linked to the machine via horrific implants.
Like, when you transition from one technology to another, the initial designs and implementation are generally worse than the current tech (a good example is our current transition from fossil fuel burning cars to electric ones - electric cars have only very recently started to catch up) so for a long time you are going to be doing things really badly before you get things working better than the past tech. So, Someone in the 40k universe had to do that with all these terrible connections to machines via their nerves. Like, who was the first poor sod to say "yeah, getting in this vat of jelly and having surgery to be put at risk of being paralysed and scarred for life sounds like a brilliant idea! Much better than simply using my hands and controllers! I'd love to!"
In the far future of the 41st millennium there is only a lack of joysticks and military xbox controllers. 😅
What do we think Malcharion still alive?
Somebody who knows the correct plural of automation? This is my kinda place