The War of the Ring - The Battle of Pelennor Fields
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2021
- In this episode, we look at the Battle of Pelennor Fields, the most important battle of the War of the Ring, and most possibly of the Third Age.
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The sight of Eomer raising his sword in defiance only to see the unfurling of the banner of Gondor is something I'm very angry to have lost from the movies.
Yeah, I love the Battle of Pelennor Fields up until the point of Aragorn arriving. I definitely wasn't a fan of the Army of the Dead change.
The concept of the Witch-king of Angmar white-knighting for Eowyn is one I did not know I needed.
It's a little known fact that the Witch-king was a "nice guy" before becoming a Nazgul. He never understood why the maidens of Numenor went for bad boys like Tar-Atanamir.
@@DarthGandalfYT "but between rim and robe naught was there to see, save only a deadly gleam of eyes and the tip of a fedora."
I'm really sad we never got Imrihil in the movies or at least his knights they have some of the best armour in the books and they would have looked good on screne
the easterlings and haradrim are total chads for fighting to the very end
Have always wished that Peter Jackson had more closely followed the narrative of the book when it came to the battle of the pelennor and siege of Gondor making for much more epic combat and story as well as showing the soldiers of gondor as the effective and efficient soldiers, how have held evil at bay for centuries with blood, sweat and tears compared to how they are depicted as generally not up tot he task in the films.
Same . It's a shame that this decision pretty well ruins the climax of the entire series.
@@JordanR Agreed
You are a good man Darth Gandalf! Excellent video!
I would like to believe Eru Iluvitar had a hand in the weather, ensuring the forces of good had the victory
@15:30-Manwe intervenes on behalf of the Free People. At least, that is my head-canon.
I suspect he had a hand in drowning out the would be disastrous calls for retreat at 12:05 as well.
Man I read the books twice and I never knew my boy Halbarad died 😭😭😭
But the Easterlings and Southrons were men proud and strong and fierce. I feel like the 2,000 Easterlings caused more casualties in their last stand on the Pelannor than did the hordes of orc rabble in the battle.
Yes I totally agree. The Easterlings were literally the 2nd most advanced humans in the Late Third Age, 2nd only to Gondor. It always irks me when random snowflakes accuse Tolkien of 'racism against ethnic minorities' because of the way non-Western inspired cultures are on the side of Sauron in the War of the Ring and in previous wars across the history of Middle Earth.
This is a total misunderstanding of how sincerely dangerous the Easterlings often were, by people who clearly just want to read warped critical race theory concepts of modern hell-world political discourse, into the Tolkien Legendarium. People desperately want to bend the Tolkien Legendarium to some counter-narrative of their own reimagining, where Tolkien was supposedly vilifying Eastern peoples. They were _victims_ of Sauron's malevolence. They had been for thousands of years, brainwashed into serving his banner.
Besides the fact that there is nothing inherently bizarre about Tolkien portraying animosity between Western and Eastern factions (what with this being absolutely the norm in our own history), and what with the setting being in a classical/medieval level of technological development (with plenty of magical powers and more advanced feats being at the foundations of that), it is ultimately just a crass misreading of what they represented; a long-standing adversary of Gondor in their own right.
In other circumstances, perhaps the Easterlings may not have been so adamant to pursue invasions of Gondorian territory in the Third Age. Perhaps they wouldn't have been so hell-bent on attacking Gondor, had Sauron not influenced them heavily. Sauron spent a long time in the East, before returning to Mordor. Nobody knows exactly what transpired, though eventually the Easterlings were simply accustomed to a historic grievance with Gondor.
I'd argue that the Easterlings in the War of the Ring, could not _really_ explain why they hated Gondor so much. It is simply that they'd been fighting for so long, that the primary causations to their bitter rivalry, had long been forgotten. We're talking about times thousands of years after the Gondorians first experienced Easterling attacks, in the early Third Age. It's not that Gondor oppressed the Easterlings, in that time, it was that the Gondorians suddenly had to contend with very aggressive invaders from the North East (Rhun) whom were also hassling the Northmen of Rhovanion, among others.
The Easterlings have time and time again, presented one of the most dire threats to the continuation of the realm of Gondor, and quite a few times got the better of Gondorian as well as Northmen armies in the field. They were dangerous, well-organised and well-armed. They were not ever directly comparable to Orc legions. They were far better than Orcs.
Maybe the Black Orcs of Barad-dur or Gundabad Orcs might give them a run for their money on toughness and discipline, as well as cruelty. But the Easterlings still had the better weapons and armour, almost certainly. Same goes in the comparison with Isengard Uruk-Hai. The Easterlings were quite reasonably Sauron's best all-rounders in the infantry world, and generally far more reliable than standard Orcs.
If anything, Tolkien points out to us that Gondor had in the past, underestimated the Easterlings, and paid a severe price for it. It's part of why Sauron sent a massive Easterling army after Erebor and Dale. Besides geographical proximity to Rhun, it was also just a good idea because Easterling warriors were of high quality, and a legitimate danger to even the Men of Dale and Dwarves of Erebor combined.
The last stand of the Easterlings on the Pelennor Fields, must be remembered as a sign of a) the levels of resentment they had to Gondor to refuse to surrender b) the determination, pride and courage of the Easterlings and c) the professionalism with which they were able to acquit themselves with on the battlefield, tactically. They were easily one of the least desirable adversaries for any faction of the free peoples to have to encounter in battle. They were deadly and well-versed in war; they'd been fighting Gondor for thousands of years.
The Haradrim and other Southrons like the Variags of Khand, were skilled in their own ways too. Many wars had been fought in which Gondor was beset by not only Easterling marauders from the North East, but the Haradrim from the South and South East.
In the long-run, this only wore away at Gondor's power. Long gone were the days of the Ship Kings of Gondor such as Hyarmendacil I, whom could strong-arm the Haradrim into obedience through sheer Gondorian military might, during the 12th century TA/Third Age.
The very fact that Easterlings and Southrons were jointly harrying Gondor's borders in the 1970's of the TA/Third Age, as well as in plenty of years prior to that, meant that Gondor could not aid Arnor in her time of greatest need, in a timely fashion. Gondor had it's own problems coming at them scimitars drawn, on it's own borders.
Efforts were made to help Arnor, but by the time the Gondorian army led by Prince Earnur arrived, Fornost Erain was destroyed after the Witch-King of Angmar besieged it in TA 1974. Even though Gondor and the Elves fought heroically to avenge Arnor, destroying Angmar thoroughly, this was no consolation to a now dissolved Arnor. The Easterlings and Haradrim were indirectly, partly responsible - even though they'd never stepped foot in Arnor.
It is sad that some folks want to transplant 21st century talking points onto Tolkien's work. He was of his time, and unapologetically so. As well he should have been, too. I'm tired of people downplaying the Easterlings as some token evil bad guy force who are conveniently 'non-white'/'non-Western style'. It robs them of their quality as ancient enemies of Gondor.
Sauron was just stirring the cauldron constantly and making things worse, egging them on to attack Gondor. They literally ended up worshipping Sauron in part, as a deity.
So I can't really blame them for falling foul.
What revisionist anti-Tolkien critics of his work tend to conveniently overlook, is how Sauron and Saruman corrupted many white/pale-skinned peoples in the West of the map of Middle Earth. You won't hear such haters drawing _that_ comparison with the Wildmen of Dunland/Dunlendings, literal European style barbarians living off of craggy rocks. Hardly flattering of Westerners.
And how about the Rhudaur hill men whom joined the Witch-King during the Angmar Wars, attacking the Dunedain in their own lands first, and then in Cardolan and Arthedain? How about the brigands and spies serving evil powers in the West? Anyone thinking Wormtongue is a good guy?
Nor will you hear from these haters about how even the most advanced humans ever to exist in the Tolkien Legendarium, the Numenoreans, were completely and utterly ruined by the involvement of 'imprisoned' Sauron (as Annatar the Fair)
Sauron is a daemonic fallen Maia from the dawn of time, who's boss was/still technically is in spirit, Melkor (literal Satan/Lucifer in Tolkien; Morgoth Bauglir) A fallen angel. Having him around is always a bad idea for mortals. He is tyrannical, corrupting and Machiavellian on a whim. Pure evil. A nuclear bomb among their own ranks, without realising it.
If the lofty, European/Western style (Numenor = Atlantis) Numenoreans, whom were once so insanely powerful that they crushed Mordor in the space of a few weeks without breaking a sweat (albeit after a 5 year muster and logistical preparation period), were basically still like helpless children for Sauron to poison with his very aura of evil, his venomous words and magical ability. He was supernatural, and super dangerous. More dangerous than anyone realised. He only wanted to go to Numenor, to destroy it. See Akallabeth and the Downfall of Numenor. If mighty Numenor was vulnerable to Sauron on that level, why wouldn't be the Easterlings? Or the Haradrim?
Even Saruman easily twisted men to his will. His voice was supernaturally commanding; not just loud and powerful, but imbued with speech-craft and passive magic. He was dangerous. Even Aragorn and Legolas had to keep wary around him, speaking, which is why they thought the 'White Wizard' would try to use his voice to cast a spell on them while they were unawares, in Fangorn Forest. Gandalf was obviously able to resist his voice and command through it, but at full-blast, even strong-minded men like Aragorn himself, were not safe.
Now turn that up to 11 with how potent the spirit of Sauron was. Even a fragment of himself, the essence of his spirit and malice in the One Ring, was latently capable of corrupting Isildur a mighty man of Numenor (given Isildur's history with Sauron, and indeed Isildur's family and it's resentment of Sauron, you have to see how hard it was for Isildur to give in to temptation and take the One Ring for himself; a lasting moment of madness that got the better of him in the end; his own brother, father and so many of his people, died because of Sauron; his very homeland destroyed, never to return)
It corrupted Bilbo, Frodo and Smeagol too, of course. It was like a barrel of toxic waste or nuclear reactor cores around their necks. What chance did the Easterlings have in days of yore, when Gondor was relatively young and the Dark Lord prowled the East? Whatever the first spark of war was between the Easterlings and Gondorians, whatever led them to attack Gondor, was irrelevant by the War of the Ring.
Whatever it was, whenever it first began, or why, had faded into mysterious obscurity. Now it had been going on so long it was all they knew. Look at Faramir's thoughts on 'war making corpses of us all' and 'his sense of duty being no lesser than yours' (I paraphrase) etc in the moments after the Ranger ambush in Ithilien.
Musing on what lies led the Haradrim warrior to war, or what threats. That is the tragedy unfolding; Sauron twisted them to his side, and wouldn't let go. When Sauron was cast down with the One Ring destroyed, the Easterling Legions outside Erebor, which they besieged after overrunning Dale, panicked upon finding out about Sauron's defeat to the South, shattering their morale immediately. To them it was like the sky was falling down on their heads and they had lost their deity. After that, the Easterlings were easier to drive off when the Men of Dale and the Dwarves of Erebor sallied forth.
Clearly the Easterlings were a powerful opponent to Gondor, the Dwarves and others. They weren't pushovers or weak militarily. They had Gondor at death's door a few times. After so long killing each other, the Gondorians hated them and the Easterlings hated the Gondorians. That was Sauron's fault. Because of course it was. Imagine being hostile with another faction for literal centuries (see England VS France)
@@ThePalaeontologist Well said, it is indeed refreshing to see such depth and discourse in a reply, I commend you.
People who say Tolkien vilified the Men of the East often forget that some Easterlings in the First Age died fighting AGAINST Melkor on the side of the Elves and West.
@@ThePalaeontologistThis is such a deep and well written essay, That I just wish I could like multiple times. You really need to create a blog or something. Forever immortalise these writings. They are
that good.
@@ShahjahanMasood Thank you, I feel that is very generous. Appreciated. I am aware Tolkien was writing in a different era, and that maybe he did have some internalised biases, however, everyone does, at some level. I just don't like when modern revisionists try and tell us the sky is not blue and that water doesn't make things wet.
The reality is, yes, it's an old book written before most of the modern revisionists were even born (long, long after) And I resent the disrespect to the Easterlings and Haradrim. I am convinced that there could have been peace without Sauron being involved. It's not as though the Elves cared much about the squabbles between the Men of the West and the Men of the East. The Elves couldn't even get over their own biases and prejudices amongst their own groups/tribes/subdivisions, mainly out of elitism and snobbery.
I will always stress the point that Sauron is a daemonic entity just sat there in the late Third Age like a black hole of the dark powers. He is abnormally strong for the Third Age. Even in a diminished state, even lacking the One Ring to augment him again, there were scarce few who could have stood up to him, even in that reduced state. And Gandalf the Grey killed one of the few that might have been able to, the Balrog of Moria, Durin's Bane.
The simple truth is that without the Elves and Dwarves in the West, the Men of the West were likely to have been overwhelmed strategically, a long time ago. The same could be said of the Elves and Dwarves e.g. that without the Men and Elves, the pressure on the Dwarves would have been far worse etc. They all benefited on having that pressure taken off them.
JRR Tolkien was writing for a principally Western audience so had it very much grounded in Western literature and the Western canon of cultural legacy, language philology and historical literature. He naturally felt inspired to portray Umbar like Tripoli or Algiers, and I think (I am not sure, but think this makes sense) name the River Poros, very likely, after an ancient Indian King of the Punjab region, called Porus or Poros. The King whom initially fought Alexander the Great at the Battle of the Hydaspes (or Jhelum) in May 326 BCE. The River Poros forms the Northern Border of the lands known as Harondor (South Gondor)
In the glory days of old Gondor, over one and a half thousand years before the War of the Ring, in the earlier part of the 2nd millennia of the Third Age, the once imperial level power Gondor exerted, extended all the way into Harad itself, beyond what is definitionally Harondor and then North of that, Ithilien.
Although the origins of the etymology for the River Poros remain unconfirmed and likely never will be, as one of those mysteries, in my view it is quite obvious. The River Poros must be a nod from Tolkien to a border defining river with a connection to a clash of West and East, in the real-history of Earth. And although the Haradrim to the South of Harondor's already arid and dry lands, in even hotter and drier deserts dotted by the oases and the emergence of dense jungle towards the far, far South of Far Harad, were more like the North African Arabs of Medieval to Early Modern history, perhaps crossed with the Mamelukes or Persian Sassanids/Sassanians to some extent, other comparisons, such as to the North African Carthaginians, can be easily made. And at that point, the idea of Tolkien slipping in a nod to the Battle of Hydaspes, seems obvious to me.
Of all the letters he could form into a name for a river in the South East of a Greco-Roman-like Gondorian civilisation, to describe a river flowing through distant, foreign seeming lands, in lands which would become a frontier of war, eventually lost and forsaken, the fact Tolkien chose 'P', 'O', 'R', 'O' and 'S', seems pretty much a straight up reference to King Poros/Porus of the Battle of Hydaspes, in my view. I could be wrong, but it just feels correct. I'd stand by that theory. It makes sense to me.
The main fly in the ointment of a counter-argument, to that idea, could sadly be that the (in this case, in this word) suffix, 'ros', is a Sindarin Elvish word for 'foam, sea-spray, or spindrift'. It could be coincidental (that arrangement of letters) However, I prefer the idea it is a reference to King Poros/Porus. If it is not, it could be about referring to a rapidly flowing, white-foam spraying river. What the, in this case, prefix, of 'Por' means, I don't know. According to the online pages of the 'Elf Dictionary' (Parf Edhellen), the origins could be that in an earlier period of Tolkien's writing (1930's-1950's), 'Poros' was not a Sindarin word but an early draft version of a Noldorin Elvish noun word, which might simply have meant, 'Boundary'. But it was never explained and that is still an unsatisfactory answer, in my view at least.
Excerpt from the definition on the page:
[Note: I will add (Sindarin) and (Noldorin) in parentheses for where the abbrievations 'S' and 'N' are used to make it easier to read]
"poros
S. (Sindarin) place name. Poros
A river in Southern Gondor marking the boundary with Harondor, appearing on the maps of The Lord of the Rings (LotR/1185). The meaning of the name is unclear.
Conceptual Development: When it first appeared in Lord of the Rings drafts from the 1940s, this name was already N. (Noldorin) Poros (TI/312), and it was glossed “Boundary”, but whether this was a translation or a description is unclear."
To my mind, Tolkien briefly noting in a margin or wherever on the page somewhere, that it was a boundary, back in the 1940's, doesn't then necessarily mean that it was the translation. It could just have been Tolkien leaving that note to speak to the nature of what the River Poros delineated on the map. That it was an important boundary river. It doesn't prove it's the translation at all. It's therefore still unknown.
The fact that later in Tolkien Legendarium/Middle-Earth history, in 2885 TA, the Gondorians and Rohirrim fought a great battle, side by side, against the Haradrim attacking them up the Harad Road, going into Harondor, spoke to the decline of the maximal extent of Gondor, and the way those lands were less often contested as time went by. Even in 2885 TA, Harondor was largely if not entirely, long-abandoned by any form of Gondorian presence. It was more or less an unpatrolled geographical buffer zone in between Ithilien and Harad.
It _used_ to have Gondorians marching around in it centuries and millennia earlier. Though by 2885 TA, it was a desolate place, and had been for a very long time. Folcred and Fastred, the then warrior-princes and brother sons of the King of Rohan of the time, Folcwine, were slain fighting heroically in aid of Gondor, at the Battle of the Crossings of the Poros.
They were buried there, by the banks of the Poros, in the sacred burial mounds known as the Haudh in Gwanûr. Technically, the majority of the fighting at the Crossings of the Poros would of course be on the Ithilien side of the river, not in Harondor (obviously, at the boundary, it is the meeting of Southern, Southern Ithilien, and the Northern end of Harondor) This shows that basically all of Harondor was swiftly overrun by the Haradrim with no major actions to stop them, until they reached the choke-point at the crossings.
Harondor had become sparsely populated, largely because of the fact that Haradrim armies had been invading up the Harad Road into Harondor and beyond, for over a thousand years before the events of 2885 TA let alone the events of the War of the Ring timeline, nearly a century-and-a-half later still.
All in all, it seems intuitive to me that even if Tolkien meant to revise that name, and define it properly, but never got around to, the nod to King Poros/King Porus is still likely. Ultimately, I have no proof it is, other than the similarity of the words and the context in which the river was placed and named on the map of Middle-Earth. Again, according to the Elven Dictionary thing, it lists the prefix 'por' as a primitive Elvish word for 'Flour' from the Middle Period (1930's to 1950's) of Tolkien's writing.
Which, may or may not imply that the River Poros might have meant something like, 'Flour Spray/Foam' or something like that, perhaps as a vaguely clumsy, portmanteau of Sindarin (perhaps the suffix) and Primitive Elvish (perhaps the prefix) Big question mark on that one. All the same, I know what explanation I prefer. King Poros/Porus reference in my view 100%. Then again, the 'ros' in Poros could be like the 'ros' in Cair Andros, or Rauros, or something along their riverine lines. It's a tough one. I'd argue there are good points to make for it just being unexplained and that maybe the whole King Poros/Porus thing is entirely coincidental. I know. I just prefer this idea a lot (lol) Anyway, thanks again.
Great video and can’t to hear about northern theatre of war but this battle made sauron even more scared of Aragorn as hd rallied allies against him and professor Tolkien knew how to make a world seem real to his own experiences
"Arise, arise, Riders of Théoden!
Spears shall be shaken, shields shall be splintered, a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
Ride now, ride now, ride! Ride for ruin and the world's ending! Death! Death! Death! Forth Eorlingas!" -King Théoden, The Lord of the Rings: The King of the Return (2003).
Luckily they had Bernard Hill. I don't think my rendition of the speech would've inspired much confidence.
@@DarthGandalfYT No one can replace Bernard Hill as King Theoden.
love your mapds and the way you describe the movement of the troops!!! very descriptive and informative......the best videos out of all youtubers about wars in middle earth!!!!
I’ve been checking this page daily for a week😂didn’t realize how much I needed this😂
Thank you
Brilliant video. This is my favourite battle in all of fantasy!
I'm sure either Manwë or Eru was behind the change in wind which turned the tide of the battle. Tolkien clearly wanted divine intervention to play a part
the Anduin also rose and drowned a lot of the Mordor troops until it ran red...Ulmo lending a small hand?
Bilbo was meant to find the ring, and not by its maker!
amazing bro, very nice detail lore, always learning :D
keep it up and gl on patreon u deserve it man
Great video as always
Great video man! 🤟
This was awesome
"He is actually a massive white knight" made me chuckle
While i love the films, I think one of the things they miss is that the death of the Witch King is a victory in the midst of a great defeat. It's part of what makes Tolkien's storytelling so compelling. The day is lost until Aragorn arrives. The films don't really capture that. Although I do remember seeing a still of Eomer holding Eowyn's body on the battlefield in the promotional materials, a shot that I don't remember seeing in either version of the ROTK. Hints at a different vision for the battle.
I think that shot actually occurs when the battle is already over.
@@DarthGandalfYT maybe so! My mind plays tricks on me in my old age.
'bad luck', 'the tides of fate' or the active intervention of Providence [?]
As we have recently seen in Europe, morale is an enormous force multiplier. Tolkien would have been well aware of it, and I think it was effective and reasonably believable use of it.
I was always baffled that Aragorn released the dead instead of using them at Minas Tirith. It doesn't seem like he is stretching the oath too far since it's all tied up in one major campaign. So it was IMMENSELY satisfying to see them do this in the films even if the graphics were a bit silly and floaty.
ED: Seems you didn't like that, well agree to disagree 😁
I kind of wish we had Eyowen's actual stand off with the Witch King and Imrahil's sortie to help the Rohirrim.
Cool video
I love the sheer bravado of casually asking for donations immediately followed by use of the word "midget" 😂 that's got to be worth at least a tenner.
It was actually Merry who killed the Witch King.
The “sword”/dagger he used and got from the barrow-weights was made in the Angmarian wars specifically to kill the Witch King by the ancient Arnoreans.
Eowyn just assisted, a lot, but Merry is the real MVP.
I am so so so late to this BUT amazing video! Could anyone tell me where the animated cut scenes of the Woses speaking to Theoden came from? Curious to know!
The Lord of the Rings Online.
Victory or death are two possible outcomes??
Can you make a video on what if orcs joined the last alliance for orcish reasons which are selfish and evil what would happen
If you were Tolkien, how would you have written the 4th Age?
Like 25- 50 years of wars with some Haradrim and Easterlings that refused to give up after fall of Sauron, then slow rebuild of former glory of Gondor Empire. I think in like 300 years the Gondor would rise to what it was during the Golden Age.
However I can imagine some fighting for power within the empire and decline happening after like one millenium or so.
Gondor is supposed to be Roman Empire, isnt it?
@@untitled568 given Gondor had already lasted 3,262 years by the time of Aragorn's death, it is several times more impressive than the Roman Empire! But yes it is based on Rome
Most fan-made timelines of the Fourth Age that I've seen seem to have the Reunited Kingdom start to falter after a few hundred years due to civil war. I think I would write their golden age lasting for at least a thousand years before they start encountering problems.
EEEEEEE click click click click click
Bad luck on Sauron's side eh?
Almost as if God himself was on the side of angels lol... But that can't be can it? Tolkein wasn't Religious wAs hE?!
I always found more fulfilling for Aragorn to have the Oathbreakers fulfill their broken oath by having the Oathbreakers actually fight in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields
and wipe out the entire army of Mordor in the movie than just having them scare the Corsairs of Umbar off their ships in the book.