I can't have enough of this video. I have referred to it in a professional meeting, setting, and it never failed me. Thank you for capturing all those small but crucial details. I am extremely proud to see that the design which my team and I have developed and produced come to life.
It made me chuckle when you put on HiViz to walk round inside a building. I watched a film yesterday about the electrification of the North Clyde, my old stomping ground, and not a piece of PPE in sight.
I was really confused because I thought he was talking about Thalys instead of Thales. It would cause chaos, high speed Thalys trains trying to enter the station at Hammersmith...
Jan Harvalík Leaves that trains run over kind of turns into a mush which becomes a hazard. Trains are far more likely to slip so they need to run at slower speeds to minimize that. Over here in NYC, the Brighton, Franklin, and Sea Beach Lines have the same issue and thus slower speeds are enforced during the fall.
7 лет назад+9
Offering the ability to switch to a lower guaranteed brake rate to be into account by the CBTC system to allow for slide when braking is a VERY brilliant way to manage leaves on the line ! Moreover, very probably the ATO system of the S Stock will also be programmed to request less adhesion rate when accelerating (limiting the tractive effort), anticipate braking and request a lower braking effort to avoid to put the train in a slip & slide situation. Both of these measures will obviously put the problem under control, all that a click away from the OCC !! Brilliant !!
Stéphane Fontaine You know, I think that may be what the MTA was thinking when they decided to have the Brighton Line converted by 2024. Great insight nonetheless.
The problem is mainly down to the use of disc brakes. The old style brakes - using composite brake blocks rubbing against the wheel surface - used to clean all the rubbish off the wheels as well as slow the train down, hence leaf mulch caused far less problems.
Really interesting video Geoff. I know someone who bought the S Stock trains down to London from the Old Dalby Test Track. And the company he works for is taking the S Stock back up to old Dalby for the testing of the new equipment.
I got the opportunity to visit such a place when I was a kid and being mesmerised by the sheer power of these systems. I could imagine it being something akin to a kid in a candy store for you ;)
I believe this is located on the trackbed of the former line that ran from Hammersmith to Kensington Addison Road, and then on to Waterloo. It was closed in 1916, I lived in a block of flats built on the track bed in Shepherd's Bush Road. When it was working there was a footbridge connection from the Hammersmith and City line station across what was then the goods yard, and on to Hammersmith Grove station, that's the reason why there is a footbridge across the platforms at the further end of Hammersmith & City station.
Reminds me of when we brought the South Wales Control Centre in Cardiff fully into use last Christmas. Screens and Track Diagrams everywhere in a circular layout, just like the HSCC, and a basement full of WESTLOCK Cubicles which control the interlocking.
Because Hi Viz are the new Mormon Magical Undergarments to keep you safe in all circumstances. If everyone wore Hi Viz then hospitals would go out of business! If "it's still a building site" were true then they should have all had hard hats on too. Without any heavy machinery in operation in the area then this is just mindless bureaucracy.
It is not an office, it is a Service Control Centre. The reason is because, at the time the video was filmed, the centre was still under construction and building works were ongoing. Since then, the building has been handed over and staff and visitors don't need hi vis.
Many moons ago around '96 or '97 I did a time and motion survey on the London Underground. I spent 3 weeks in the signal box at Earls Court. BAck then it was nicknamed " Gods Office " I enjoyed every minute and it was a huge learning experience.
This is pretty awesome though, gaining access to the nerve centre of an engineering feat run by a multinational, well respected firm. A dream job really!
The Canadian company is spelt Telus and is a telephone company founded in Edmonton and currently based in Vancouver Thales from France is an indirect descendant of General Electric (the American one) Also not the first time I’ve heard the two confused, as Thales is also doing the CBTC/ATO install here in New York (they’re currently finishing work on the #7 Line, which should be online by the end of the year) and someone said the same thing to me.
I love your vids (and trains). The safety vest theater of the absurd. Should have given out hard hats since you never know when a flourescent tube will drop from the heavens.
Tremendous stuff - I pass this place most days, spent a bit of time trying to figure out what it was and imagined it was a data centre of some sort. But curious that Goldhawk Road train time indicators so rarely work given located next to the control centre!!
Would love if you did more videos of control centres and signaling in general. I’m currently working with producing a new control system for the train service in the whole of Sweden. Approximately 900 stations and 5000 trains per day. If you ever visit Stockholm or Norrköping in Sweden again, contact me and I can show you our system ;)
Trackernet is specifically disclaimed as not for safety critical decision making so LU signallers will use panels and other IT systems for actual control
hi quick question, Singapore's 30 year old MRT lines (North South and East West Lines) are currently upgrading to the Thales CBTC signalling similar to those of London and Hong Kong but we have been experiencing quite a letdown in the project with the most recent a collision between 2 trains due to a signalling software error while the train was running on the new signalling system. apart from this there has been a spate of breakdowns relating to the new signalling system including an 8 hour disruption when a software reboot caused trains to halt and had its train run number and schedule write off from the data. i wonder if the underground lines running Thales CBTC had such issues when the system came "live"? or maybe have our transport authority been rushing too much for this project to be completed?
As people have noted, Thales is French, but their roots aren't Canadian, they're American. Thales used to be called Thomson-CSF, and the Thomson part was the French branch of General Electric.
I think we need a video showing all the PPE designs used on the railway network. It seems like anyone who is light blue, is not allowed to do anything inside the station or somesuch. There were a lot of them waving water bottles under my nose, during the Waterloo Upgrade.
I guess it will be a controlled site who gets access and makes it a damn slight easier if someone tried to peel off from a large-ish group at any point. Get lost, end up unsupervised, get yourself wittingly into trouble and then the company is in trouble if anything was to happen to you. It is surprising how Hi-Vis does help draw awareness to a person in this way and in a controlled environment like a control centre for a tube line allowing people of the general public in, its not a bad thing. I know that answer won't be good enough for some people but my reasoned approached to it. They can stick to the "ramble ramble 'elf an saftee is madz"
I have no idea what "ramble ramble 'elf an saftee is madz" means. I do know that it is possible to remove a hi-vis jacket - people do it all the time. It is also possible to get lost while wearing one and to ask for directions whether you are wearing one or not. Of course, if you are up to no good, you would have removed the hi-vis (using the technique perfected over many years using one's own clothing) and then stuff it behind a fire extinguisher. They don't reduced the risk of getting lost. They reduce the opportunities for crime. My question still stands: Why the hi-vis jackets?
Indeed it's a rather efficient way of setting something like this up, similar work-spaces are used for things like controlling the flows in oil refineries, running power plants and of course the control centres for the various utility networks and telecoms operations centres etc.
Why is there a picture of the first saved penalty in a fa cup final next to the sofa chair that Geoff wanted to take home with him? A Wimbledon fan in Hammersmith?
That was so random, just finished watching one of Jays videos then he appears at the end of yours! Do you know Techmoan, the slow-mo guys and the 8 bit guy too!?
Can someone explain; as this video is from 5 years ago (2017), how is then possible that at mark 07:16 on the screen there's a tube map with the Battersea extension, while this was opened only a year ago (2021)? Thanks 😁
Crazy how Thales can make this all work, but they can't get a 3km long extension in Edmonton AB to work without sending trains down the wrong track....
Wikipedia can be edited by anyone therefore it’s unreliable..
7 лет назад+4
I may confirm Thales is a French company, but their CBTC system headquarters are well in Canada, where the Seltrac system has been developed more than 30 years ago and installed on one of the very first Unattended Train Operation systems in the world : the Vancouver SkyTrain. That same Seltrac system -also installed on the DLR in the 1994 upgrade- has German roots : "SEL" in Seltrac comes from Standard Elelektrik Lorenz, a former german signalling company bought by Alcatel which itself has been bought by Thales. That system shares common technological roots with the german high-speed LZB control system. However, the Automatic Train Supervision system, whose visible part are the displays and mimic panels seen on the video, are developed in France (Vélizy).
There's a kid near the end when you was talking on the stations next to the S stock train the kid was walking past ans he turned around behind you and stuck both middle fingers up at you towards the camera, how rude off him!
i don't know if you have any control over this but i am currently having to sit through a five minute, unskippable add from Mercedes to watch your video, this may well put people off watching your shorter videos
Geoff Marshall I'm in the UK, i don't know if you choose as a content creator what adds are played on your videos but something like that could put someone off some shorter videos, I'm not hating on you, I'm just trying to give some feedback, I'm on a windows desktop if that makes any difference
It's a shoutout to it not happening! Shame Geoff walked away after that snippet - that sounded like some interesting nonsense about why it won't happen - the 'other places will want money for transport improvements if we spend money' argument against investing in transport. Sigh. I'm not sure if that's better or worse than the "it's outside our borders so we won't spend more Londoners' money on outsiders" type nonsense that the Mayoral Spokesperson told the Watford Gazette when the collapse of the scheme became public. if you are representing one of the potential financiers of the MLX scheme, then just simply say that you don't have the money spare to put more into MLX, or that the scheme's case is now in doubt due to escalating costs (something fishy has gone on there). Or something that's a bit of both. Definitely don't spout nonsense that makes you just look bad - whether petty parochialism from Mayoral spokespersons, or this "then everyone will be asking for more money" excuse (presumably from Whitehall being retold by a TfL guy).
No. Tallis, as in Thomas Tallis is spelt "Tallis". Thallis is pronounced "Thallis". Next thing you know they will be trying to get us to drop the "s" off Paris.
![Gucci Mane & Sexyy Red - You Don't Love Me [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/j7IBqyFKT4c/mqdefault.jpg)
I can't have enough of this video. I have referred to it in a professional meeting, setting, and it never failed me. Thank you for capturing all those small but crucial details. I am extremely proud to see that the design which my team and I have developed and produced come to life.
These random little insights into things I'd probably never get round to seeing for myself are what I feel RUclips is for. Thanks Geoff :)
It made me chuckle when you put on HiViz to walk round inside a building. I watched a film yesterday about the electrification of the North Clyde, my old stomping ground, and not a piece of PPE in sight.
Not really. It's either that or little lapel badges that say : Visitor: must be escorted at all times. Which could easily fall off the lapel.
And that would be the end of the world necessitating a major enquiry, Unless of course it really was the end of the world of course.
I was really confused because I thought he was talking about Thalys instead of Thales.
It would cause chaos, high speed Thalys trains trying to enter the station at Hammersmith...
Same - those are some amazing looking trains
Finally, a good comment is at the top.
Beyond awesome.
So brilliantly techy.
A railway/tube geeks dream.
The Starship Enterprise of the tube.
Thanks for this!!
Shame you missed the last part of the day. I heard there ain't no party like an S-Stock party.
You know when someone took the time to program in ‘leaves on the line’ algorithms, they take their job seriously.
Jan Harvalík Leaves that trains run over kind of turns into a mush which becomes a hazard. Trains are far more likely to slip so they need to run at slower speeds to minimize that. Over here in NYC, the Brighton, Franklin, and Sea Beach Lines have the same issue and thus slower speeds are enforced during the fall.
Offering the ability to switch to a lower guaranteed brake rate to be into account by the CBTC system to allow for slide when braking is a VERY brilliant way to manage leaves on the line ! Moreover, very probably the ATO system of the S Stock will also be programmed to request less adhesion rate when accelerating (limiting the tractive effort), anticipate braking and request a lower braking effort to avoid to put the train in a slip & slide situation. Both of these measures will obviously put the problem under control, all that a click away from the OCC !! Brilliant !!
Stéphane Fontaine You know, I think that may be what the MTA was thinking when they decided to have the Brighton Line converted by 2024. Great insight nonetheless.
The problem is mainly down to the use of disc brakes. The old style brakes - using composite brake blocks rubbing against the wheel surface - used to clean all the rubbish off the wheels as well as slow the train down, hence leaf mulch caused far less problems.
Slowing down is only part of the problem. Getting traction in an area of low adhesion is also an issue.
Keep it up Geoff! I love seeing all the behind the scenes bits!
Love the pictures on the corridor wall, and the LT roundel carpet, thanks Geoff as always fascinating....
Really interesting video Geoff.
I know someone who bought the S Stock trains down to London from the Old Dalby Test Track.
And the company he works for is taking the S Stock back up to old Dalby for the testing of the new equipment.
These are the sort of 'behind the scenes' videos that I enjoy. This is brilliant.
I got the opportunity to visit such a place when I was a kid and being mesmerised by the sheer power of these systems. I could imagine it being something akin to a kid in a candy store for you ;)
The project is called 4LM - 4 Lines Modernisation.
I walk past that gated off building pretty much everyday and I've always wondered what was in there! Nice to know the H&C line is getting some love.
I love jay!, i loved his 3 episode lonodon series, i hope hes doing more of them with you
I believe this is located on the trackbed of the former line that ran from Hammersmith to Kensington Addison Road, and then on to Waterloo. It was closed in 1916, I lived in a block of flats built on the track bed in Shepherd's Bush Road. When it was working there was a footbridge connection from the Hammersmith and City line station across what was then the goods yard, and on to Hammersmith Grove station, that's the reason why there is a footbridge across the platforms at the further end of Hammersmith & City station.
Reminds me of when we brought the South Wales Control Centre in Cardiff fully into use last Christmas. Screens and Track Diagrams everywhere in a circular layout, just like the HSCC, and a basement full of WESTLOCK Cubicles which control the interlocking.
Hi Geoff, they are a French company but with Canadians working on the project and I believe its the 4 Lines Modernisation project (4LM)
Love all your vids, keep up the good work! It’s so interesting hearing how it all works and how we are progressing.
Great content at the moment Geoff. Really enjoying the “behind the scenes” underground content. Keep up the good work
Why are they wearing in high visibility jackets in an office?
It *is* still a building site.
@ Chris Stephens.... that would be "candy ass" if you're going to use a colorful Americanism :)
Because Hi Viz are the new Mormon Magical Undergarments to keep you safe in all circumstances.
If everyone wore Hi Viz then hospitals would go out of business!
If "it's still a building site" were true then they should have all had hard hats on too.
Without any heavy machinery in operation in the area then this is just mindless bureaucracy.
It is not an office, it is a Service Control Centre. The reason is because, at the time the video was filmed, the centre was still under construction and building works were ongoing. Since then, the building has been handed over and staff and visitors don't need hi vis.
Super cool you get to see all this stuff, You managed to cameo in Tomska's video this week too!
Many moons ago around '96 or '97 I did a time and motion survey on the London Underground. I spent 3 weeks in the signal box at Earls Court. BAck then it was nicknamed " Gods Office " I enjoyed every minute and it was a huge learning experience.
This is pretty awesome though, gaining access to the nerve centre of an engineering feat run by a multinational, well respected firm. A dream job really!
The Canadian company is spelt Telus and is a telephone company founded in Edmonton and currently based in Vancouver
Thales from France is an indirect descendant of General Electric (the American one)
Also not the first time I’ve heard the two confused, as Thales is also doing the CBTC/ATO install here in New York (they’re currently finishing work on the #7 Line, which should be online by the end of the year) and someone said the same thing to me.
Yay it's Jay!
Just learned signalling from my Singapore Technical College and Oh Boy. It sure looks great to have a new OCC for Hammersmith!
These buildings are soul crushingly utilitarian. Corporate meeting sheds, a half step above an animal shed
Can I just say, I love the new music you're using in your videos!
Jay! Excited for the ‘plot’
I love your vids (and trains). The safety vest theater of the absurd. Should have given out hard hats since you never know when a flourescent tube will drop from the heavens.
Tremendous stuff - I pass this place most days, spent a bit of time trying to figure out what it was and imagined it was a data centre of some sort.
But curious that Goldhawk Road train time indicators so rarely work given located next to the control centre!!
"It clearly says keep out"
Those words mean nothing when you have a high-vis, come on now.
Nice seeing my old manger mr Warner
The crosssrail is now operating from shenfield to Liverpool street, it only comes often. But it looks new.
Would love if you did more videos of control centres and signaling in general. I’m currently working with producing a new control system for the train service in the whole of Sweden. Approximately 900 stations and 5000 trains per day. If you ever visit Stockholm or Norrköping in Sweden again, contact me and I can show you our system ;)
Trackernet is specifically disclaimed as not for safety critical decision making so LU signallers will use panels and other IT systems for actual control
Thales took over Alcatel CBTC system back in the 2000
Hey Geoff - love your videos.
hi quick question, Singapore's 30 year old MRT lines (North South and East West Lines) are currently upgrading to the Thales CBTC signalling similar to those of London and Hong Kong but we have been experiencing quite a letdown in the project with the most recent a collision between 2 trains due to a signalling software error while the train was running on the new signalling system. apart from this there has been a spate of breakdowns relating to the new signalling system including an 8 hour disruption when a software reboot caused trains to halt and had its train run number and schedule write off from the data. i wonder if the underground lines running Thales CBTC had such issues when the system came "live"?
or maybe have our transport authority been rushing too much for this project to be completed?
As people have noted, Thales is French, but their roots aren't Canadian, they're American. Thales used to be called Thomson-CSF, and the Thomson part was the French branch of General Electric.
Do you think they will have a kobyashi maru scenario in the training room? :D
How many of the hi-vis jackets you’ve worn in your videos did you end up keeping?
I think we need a video showing all the PPE designs used on the railway network.
It seems like anyone who is light blue, is not allowed to do anything inside the station or somesuch. There were a lot of them waving water bottles under my nose, during the Waterloo Upgrade.
I can't help wondering: Why the Hi-vis? Who really needs to see the group members that well?!!!
I guess it will be a controlled site who gets access and makes it a damn slight easier if someone tried to peel off from a large-ish group at any point. Get lost, end up unsupervised, get yourself wittingly into trouble and then the company is in trouble if anything was to happen to you. It is surprising how Hi-Vis does help draw awareness to a person in this way and in a controlled environment like a control centre for a tube line allowing people of the general public in, its not a bad thing.
I know that answer won't be good enough for some people but my reasoned approached to it. They can stick to the "ramble ramble 'elf an saftee is madz"
I have no idea what "ramble ramble 'elf an saftee is madz" means.
I do know that it is possible to remove a hi-vis jacket - people do it all the time. It is also possible to get lost while wearing one and to ask for directions whether you are wearing one or not. Of course, if you are up to no good, you would have removed the hi-vis (using the technique perfected over many years using one's own clothing) and then stuff it behind a fire extinguisher. They don't reduced the risk of getting lost. They reduce the opportunities for crime. My question still stands: Why the hi-vis jackets?
Great stuff, Mr Geoff. We need to catch up and maybe do a project together ;-)
Well that looks very cool, and useful.
Then there is the Canadian phone company Telus. They don't do trains; they specialize in high prices and poor service.
Laura Halliday High prices and poor service? Sounds like a train service to me! At least train service in the US.
It looks like an airline control center, and I'm sure that isn't be accident. Very similar in job function.
Indeed it's a rather efficient way of setting something like this up, similar work-spaces are used for things like controlling the flows in oil refineries, running power plants and of course the control centres for the various utility networks and telecoms operations centres etc.
Very electronic, is it as fault resistant as the mechanical locks shown in the Cobourg Street video?
Thales is a French company, previously known as Thompson CSF
Why is there a picture of the first saved penalty in a fa cup final next to the sofa chair that Geoff wanted to take home with him? A Wimbledon fan in Hammersmith?
love jay at the end
I wathch Jay Foreman also Geoff on both on his videos.
Baker Street. Near Sherlock Hilmes?
Great video, keep it up! Also, I thought Jay was dead!!
Jayyyyyy ❤
When I saw the title of the latest Geoff Video, I confess my first thought was I didn't realise Hammersmith took that much controlling.
I have to ask you who you are are who authorized your visit?
only Matt from the park bench was missing for me at the end :DD
Did you find out at what desk Denzel Washington sits at? (Pelham 123 reference lol)
Ain't no party like an S-Stock party .. :D
S-Stoooooock... gonna show you hooooooww...
New Hammersmith SERVICE control centre opened in Dec 2017.
That was so random, just finished watching one of Jays videos then he appears at the end of yours! Do you know Techmoan, the slow-mo guys and the 8 bit guy too!?
What a suprise Jay Marshal :) (funny).
Where would you find that real time display, cause it looks pretty cool.
Can someone explain; as this video is from 5 years ago (2017), how is then possible that at mark 07:16 on the screen there's a tube map with the Battersea extension, while this was opened only a year ago (2021)? Thanks 😁
...and elizabeth line as well 😅
so whats with the orange vests if they're working indoors
Will it sort out the "delight" that is waiting for a train at Edgware Road and can the Circle Line become circular once again?
No. Edgware Road will always be a Circle Ham and City Circle District Circle Ham and City District Circle District Ham and City clusterfuck.
Crazy how Thales can make this all work, but they can't get a 3km long extension in Edmonton AB to work without sending trains down the wrong track....
Answer to the gentleman's question heard in the background at 05:49 is when TfL or the DfT can cough up the extra money!
How do you find that realtime information thing Geoff was talking about? Trackernet or something?
traintimes.org.uk/map/tube/skyfall/
5:27 LU/Railtrack boundary? Railtrack haven't existed since 2002!
cjmillsnun : you win 100 additional nerd points!
Did this lead to A1 journey video?
Will it stop the signal failures tho
Leaves on the line algorithms? What’s the point in even having a driver now?
how many jobs will ATO eliminate?
Very nice video..
Hopefully they can collectively figure out how to fix “normal congestion at this time of the morning”.
Thales is French not Canadian en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thales_Group?wprov=sfla1
Wikipedia can be edited by anyone therefore it’s unreliable..
I may confirm Thales is a French company, but their CBTC system headquarters are well in Canada, where the Seltrac system has been developed more than 30 years ago and installed on one of the very first Unattended Train Operation systems in the world : the Vancouver SkyTrain. That same Seltrac system -also installed on the DLR in the 1994 upgrade- has German roots : "SEL" in Seltrac comes from Standard Elelektrik Lorenz, a former german signalling company bought by Alcatel which itself has been bought by Thales. That system shares common technological roots with the german high-speed LZB control system.
However, the Automatic Train Supervision system, whose visible part are the displays and mimic panels seen on the video, are developed in France (Vélizy).
I my experience dealing with Thales, it's my understanding that they are French. They are definitely not a Canadian company.
Simon Tay nobody in the UK makes such a system.
In my experience dealing with Thales Rail Signalling Solutions, they are Canadian. Their parent/owners are still French.
can you access trackinet?
It is a French company partly owned by the French Government.
What happened to the Earl's Court line control?
Geoff Marshall.. Ah, I thought it was a District line control. Ta!
12:19 Rayners Lane too? :)
Rayners Lane to Uxbrige is shared by the Met and Picc. so Picc trains will run along a section of track controlled from here, yes.
Why on earth do you NOT need a high viz vest outside, but you DO need one to walk around inside?? It's health & safety gone mad!!
AndreiTupolev IDK, but it could be their way of knowing he is meant to be there. Quick identification of an authorised person.
Thales is a combined dutch and french compagny ;-).
I had literally no idea it was pronounced ‘Tallis’ and not ‘Thales’...
jay foreman is the beeeeeeeeeest
lol yes there was an intentional reason for the smiley face and a story behind it and its a great one but I cant be bothered to type it all out!
Why do they call lines on LU 'Roads' ?
UA they do on all networks.
There's a kid near the end when you was talking on the stations next to the S stock train the kid was walking past ans he turned around behind you and stuck both middle fingers up at you towards the camera, how rude off him!
I work on building the simulation software in Canada :)
i don't know if you have any control over this but i am currently having to sit through a five minute, unskippable add from Mercedes to watch your video, this may well put people off watching your shorter videos
Geoff Marshall I'm in the UK, i don't know if you choose as a content creator what adds are played on your videos but something like that could put someone off some shorter videos, I'm not hating on you, I'm just trying to give some feedback, I'm on a windows desktop if that makes any difference
Fancy!
Nice
Somebody please turn that training software into a video game.
Oh dammit, I want a S-Stock sofa too :-(
5:47 shoutout to watford junction
It's a shoutout to it not happening! Shame Geoff walked away after that snippet - that sounded like some interesting nonsense about why it won't happen - the 'other places will want money for transport improvements if we spend money' argument against investing in transport. Sigh. I'm not sure if that's better or worse than the "it's outside our borders so we won't spend more Londoners' money on outsiders" type nonsense that the Mayoral Spokesperson told the Watford Gazette when the collapse of the scheme became public.
if you are representing one of the potential financiers of the MLX scheme, then just simply say that you don't have the money spare to put more into MLX, or that the scheme's case is now in doubt due to escalating costs (something fishy has gone on there). Or something that's a bit of both. Definitely don't spout nonsense that makes you just look bad - whether petty parochialism from Mayoral spokespersons, or this "then everyone will be asking for more money" excuse (presumably from Whitehall being retold by a TfL guy).
French connection - I see what you did there
*WSMA*
(wow, so many acronyms)
funny when you asked for the couch.
No. Tallis, as in Thomas Tallis is spelt "Tallis". Thallis is pronounced "Thallis". Next thing you know they will be trying to get us to drop the "s" off Paris.