As a non-American, I find it surprising how this comment section is filled with negative comments about Tim Keller and CRT, or calling him marxist/liberal. I have been so blessed by his GOSPEL-centred teaching, and also thankful for when he brings gospel issues to our practical reality, including social injustice. It's sad that some people are so quick to put him in a political/ideological box and discredit him for speaking about Injustice from a biblical standpoint (in other sermons, books etc). Some Americans seem to politicize certain biblical principles at once, and then 'cancel' whoever they disagree with on some issue. I'm not saying Tim is right about everything, nobody is. But I have high respect and admiration for his life and ministry. God bless him
The people living under a culture or a side of the political isle that remotely resembles Biblical principles can forget that they are not citizens of the world. There’re dangers in it, too.
It just a shows you the true character of people in the US, and how foolish they are to try and live by their depraved culture yet claim to be Christian. Pray for them. Like Keller stated, their culture declares their understanding of the Bible, and their culture is depraved, so their “Christianity” that they think they’ve rationalized is somehow Biblical. They don’t understand they aren’t even saved and will perish if they don’t get over their ugly tendencies and seek Christ in submission. It’s almost a curse from God to let them be so falsely arrogant and confident, yet they’re following the devil and aren’t even Christians.
Why would you be surprised? It's a fallen world, and Christ said that we would receive the treatment that He did. Not everyone prays for wisdom and discernment.
@@knobendChristian Nationalists are not actual believers. They are Pharisees that get their identity from their political party and ideation. They have no interest in being Christ like
From the outside looking in, there seems to be the idolatry in politicizing Christianity to raise up being what a “true” American patriot should look like that is rampant in your country.
Good to hear from the late Tim Keller. I still remember that review on Yelp of Redeemer Presbyterian Church from some ten years ago. Nothing I've ever heard or read about Redeemer has ever been proven more accurate or cogent. Excerpts edited for brevity and clarity: 1/17/2011 I have been to Redeemer West side and East side services. I still go from time to time. I used to take part in several of the volunteer opportunities at Redeemer. First, I will start with the founding Pastor Tim Keller. Tim Keller's sermons are some of the most thought provoking you will ever hear in your life anywhere! He is also an author. I would go so far as to say that he is one of the great thinkers of our time. He is also a visionary in many ways. My husband and I regularly purchase and listen to his sermons. So why only 3 stars? Because a church is more than just a pastor. Now there is no perfect church. But there are some serious things lacking here: First of all, there is no prayer meeting or focus on corporate prayer for the entire church. The very basic part of the Christian faith that Jesus himself said with his own lips was Matthew 21:13. "It is written," He said to them, "'My house will be called a house of prayer, but you are making it a den of robbers." Prayer is just talking to God, it doesn't require any special talent, skill or training. So the lack of prayer at this church is very alarming to me. And I haven't heard anyone speak of repentance at Redeemer --- ever. Again, I have listened to hundreds of sermons and been to at least a hundred services both on the W est and East sides. The church ministries are called "ministries" but are run like any secular organization. Redeemer Presbyterian is run like a business, a well-oiled corporate machine, and not a church. The other 2 things which are cultural and not spiritual but are off-putting to me are: 1. Most of the members and regular visitors to Redeemer are transplants, not New Yorkers, so the church is a large city church but run like a small town church where there are very few native New Yorkers. It seems most of the members are not established in the city and are just passing through. 2. The other is that it seems the majority of the congregation is looking for a spouse, and very aggressively. When you walk in, the first thing people do is look at your hand for a ring, and then are bold enough to ask if it is a wedding ring. That experience is not unique to me, but to all of the guests I bring here. In addition, in any volunteer group I have been to, the small talk from both men and women centered around trying to find a spouse. Then the few married people were usually complaining about their marriages. The pastor knows about this, and does see it as a problem because he addresses it in his sermons. But people don't seem to listen. It is like they are all living in 1950's rural America. One other major problem I have with the church is that it is mostly white and Asian. I believe the reason is that the congregation ---- and this is not the pastoral team's fault --- seems to be focused on their careers and making money, and not on God at all. God is there to bless their agendas; this is how they seem to operate. I believe this is true for a few reasons. One, the culture of the church and focus of the congregation seems to be on Whites and Asians who make good money and have high-end careers, rather than on God. A huge basic tenet of the Christian faith is Death to Self. But at Redeemer, when you hear testimonies approved by the pastoral staff, they usually start with the person's professional credentials. I do not see any Death to Self there, but actually the opposite: It's "Look at what I can do for God because of my high income and education." It is not wrong to have a high income or education as a Christian. But the focus (at Redeemer) is wrong. So for these reasons, I think the church is best for those who are not Christians yet but are seekers of God, or those established in the faith already. It is not good in my opinion for the average believer looking for a home church. But by all means, purchase Tim Keller's sermons and do something that the congregation fails to do: Learn from his sermons. The church in my opinion is more intellectual than spiritual. end
Sherry Peyton, I have found it interesting how many women I speak with, these last 20 years after coming back to Christ, have remarked to me how refreshing it is to hear a man speak about God. The flames should be fanned daily to keep the fire burning bright. I want more of Him and less of me. God bless your faith with ever increasing desire to have more
@@metalcomposition I have been in a J Mcarthur Master seminary pastored church for yrs and been the janitor for that church for 11 yrs …trust me I know theology and I know humility when I see it … wish Christian’s would be less critical and kinder behind a keyboard .. the Lord knows the truth it will all be put right in the end …
I love the statement Tim Keller made that Reformed Theology has the most intense & pervasive appreciation of the Holy Spirit's work in a believers' life. So often we are accused of "not having the Holy Spirit, particularly if we are cessationists.
Tim Keller's critique of the modern church "assuming Christendom" is a brilliant insight. He is so honest in saying that the church in the West is mostly just flailing around.
But I'm here in England in September 2023 and I'm telling you now that I'm holding on to Jesus for DEAR LIFE. He's leading us home to The Father and The Holy Spirit is facilitating that as I type this. Whatever...God bless each one of us today. Xxx
Yeah, the main difference I saw between Keller's response and Ferguson's response was Keller's was rooted in a personal opinion at the end of the day, Ferguson was based off an acknowledgement of careful scriptural application. I loved Ferguson's response!
This is the kind of dialogue we need today and the ability to admit one is wrong or agree to disagree. So many people have found a niche on RUclips knocking this or that and everyone is clamoring for the head of the one being criticized. I don’t necessarily like Steven Furtick but I read pro & con before making any sort of judgement and in the end, what I tell people, is don’t go to his church. Paul actually condoned teaching as long as Christ was mentioned. He attacked the theology not the person. Shalom
When tim was speaking about young ministers,i like to see older ministers who have been to hell and survived,they have wisdom where the young ones talk a good talk.
As a young man almost in the pastorate, I do recognize the value of life wisdom. It opens up the text for us in myriad ways, even as Ferguson referenced that the end of Christendom has helped the modern church to unlock various new testament texts. That being said, I agree with the previous reply that ministers if the gospel are not so bound by their own experiences that young ministers are inadequate solely on the basis of age. Although they should not be new converts, the job of a minister is not first to communicate experience. It is to communicate the word of God, rightly divided. That is why single men too can make excellent ministers. It isn't a fruitful marriage that allows a man to help others have a fruitful marriage. It is the gospel rightly understood and applied to unique contexts that leads to fruitful marriages.
I think the gospel is more then sufficient enough for the world, I don't think the physical church can do any better then to proclaim it and keep it's self clear of man made traditions. if it can do that by grace alone, all those with ears to hear will recognize it by grace alone. I don't think you can taylor a temporal physical church to the whims of the world to bring about repentance & regeneration. repentance, regeneration, it's all grace alone. it depends on the topic, lets say the early church came bare foot and lean not with suits and ties. I would say theres some leniency there.. but things like openly unrepentant homosexuality there is no leniency there. you have to go with sola scriptura otherwise a physical church can turn into a synagog of satan. the eturnal spiritual church is all ready predestined, the cross being effectual, so there's no worries there.
Keller looked like he was about to weep when asked about #churchtoo, which I hadn't heard of until now. Two years ago my church went through agony over the attempted luring of a girl child by a teenage boy, both children of members. There were tears and recriminations against the elders, who many perceived as having handled the matter incompetently. 80% of the congregation left, perceiving that the church was not safe for children. The boy was civilly prosecuted.
Civil prosecution should not scare away true believers . We face dangers to children everywhere. . . this is why I always recommend G.R.A.C.E Godly Response to the Abuse ( of Chrildren) in Christian Environments.
As Christiams we are truly suffering fir the gospel everyday in our professions . While we directly and indirectly represent Christ in Professional spaces at tge intersection of Compassion and Justice.
GORDON -Conwell Theological Seminary is proud to claim both of the Kellers as our own alumni. You are putting to good use what David F.Wells taught you and your wife in the 1970's. Please stay reformed and not so woke.
The company I work for had the same thing happen. The former CEO ruined the company and then hired consultants to persuade a potential buyer that the company was worth way more than it actually was. The company sold and he received a huge payout. He quickly retired, leaving the company in shambles. It's a joke.
Maybe we go wrong when we take the intellectual route or the emotional route.We have not to be conform with this world and is traditions we have to be in conformity with Christ mainly.Christianity look more and more at the image of this world, we are supposed to be teach and conduct by the Spirit but men want us under their governance, we cannot take Christ throne of authority as the modern pastors do.The reformation is far from being completed we have to let the Spirit not men inspired us and conduct us into the truth but if you are in a denomination you will become suspect because you do not follow them but Christ alone.Piety it's about doing no compromise to the truth and to accept to live in this desert island call the uncompromised love of the truth.
Gratitude and Honor unto our Heirs commanded to provide free space and room to grow! From here grows! Just to remind and comes with comfort! Nevertheless...therefore keep watch! As Heirs commanded to keep watch concerning the world at this very moment like all thy FEET resting upon the NEW very tip of time. What is crumbling? Students will say, feet resting upon will be DETERMINED! What is Sustained? Students will say what holds all these? Even the SUN AND THE MOON commanded to persevere! Students why our seasons changes at anytime? Fallen short don't persevere? Students thy worth is worth more than anything nor everything that exist! Liken unto a innocents little ...in the midst of all these Calls themselves nor exalted themselves above! What is a big head? For many have made themselves big heads! Offsprings preserve. Which ye all once! Love ye 3 pops! Gratitude and Honor. Likewise Gratitude and Honor go find thy rightful place upon all Feet. Comes with wiping thy tears from your eyes
What is without me? How can me exist? But 1ST. Has to share the "i" the CHILD sitting with the AM Father God unto the CHILD. What is revival? If ye all don't exist?
I'm a fan of yours in a big way Tim, but you really danced around the race issue in an attempt to take both sides. A simple answer to a complex problem, is love thy neighbor as you would love thyself. Slavery was wrong then it's wrong today, You're not accountable for your neighbor's sin.
I agree. He didn’t provide any value to the question. At least Ferguson’s response was back to the calling of the church as a starting point, not political power.
Atticus Finch himself would understand that Tom Robinson should have been listened to rather than those 12 white male juries. I think this is what Tim is saying .
I am disappointed Tim Keller didn’t speak about racism as a white male. Very disappointed. Being white doesn’t preclude you from being able to comment on it. It perpetuates the lie that racism is defined as being only against non-white people but not against white people. There is already a movement that is changing the definition of racism to exclude whites. You can speak on racism no matter what color you are. Even if you are not a victim of racism, you probably know someone who has been. You can speak biblically on the wrongs of racism, personal observations of racism, biblical solutions and support efforts that move biblically based solutions forward. Bowing out from the conversation of racism contributes to the major problem of the church excluding itself from influencing secular culture.
Down with: Woke Church Culture amd the war on White Evangelicalism being waged by Urban Black apologetics and their Social Gospel and James Cone like Black Liberation Theology. Be very careful to not accuse people of White Nationalism en route to exhanging the true gospel for a wtered down pro BLM civil religion. No more Trojan Horses Dr. KELLER.
I had Mark Noll at Wheaton College in the 1990's before he taught at Harvard and Notre Dame. Cultural isogesis is a danger when we exchange our politics for Theological categories.
And there goes the problem we're no longer worshiping God He is not our greatest treasure. We have to stop being philosophical or persuasive and tell the truth because the truth is that which sets you free.
Being persuasive in teaching is not mutually exclusive from loving others. Both are good. Tim very effectively uses scripture to inform and persuade the heart toward God. He also ties everything back to Jesus. His teachings have greatly deepened my understanding of scripture, and thus increased my utter sense of awe for God, and love for others.
You don't have to have a certain degree of melanin in your body to address racism. You don't have to have personally experienced racism to speak on racism. Tim Keller punted. This is the first Tim Keller video I have watched. I've never heard him before. Would Tim say the same thing when it comes to abortion, murder, theft, rape, human trafficking, gossip, gluttony, pride? When can a white christian male address these issues and not be shouted down-EVERYDAY OF THE WEEK. Disregard the shouting. The messiah walked thru the crowd as they prepared to stone him. I'm sure there was shouting going on.
Eph. 2:14 "For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit."
The three men in conversation is concerning especially when one knows how inaccurate of reality Genesis is and out of line with the order of evolution of our world in particular.
Love Sinclair Ferguson; he has stayed true to Scripture. Tim Keller had been weaving CRT into his conversations long, long before 2018...his full-blown "woke-ness" was about burst on the scene. It has been sad to watch so many follow him down that path.
Pastor Keller is a primo example of not placing or faith in men. He’s held to a higher standard in Christ as a teacher. Makes me so sad that he is embracing and espousing crt even if not overtly at least in practice.
I am of Reformed faith for 50 years, went to a fine seminary later in life and I hardly understand anything these two say. Make what you say plain and clear. Most college educated ones I know cannot speak correct English and then there are those who must strain to give complicated words/answers that we are not able to understand...so their greatness is their pride with the jibberesh and inability to communicate. I could not get through all of this...GIVE me some biblical answers.
This is the first time I have heard Timothy Keller but I've listened to Sinclair Ferguson for quite awhile and I just love the man, and the way he teaches with such care and love, you can't help notice in the way he teaches and his love for God,His son our Lord Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit, God's Word and God's Church! I'm so thankful for Pastor John MacArthur and his introduction to men like these especially thankful for the love of our triune God,Who has shown me so much through men like these.
The race question is pointless. It is not a biblical question. Be a Christian in every way, out in culture. Tim says as a white man. Give me a break. How about you answer as a pastor.
I have problem with this institutional Christianism ; this was not Jesus way.Our pastor it's Christ not these modern pastors. They took all the place.We are not seminarian but CHRISTIAN seminarians produce men made ministers at the image of their denomination....the body of Christ is not denominational but teach and conduct and sanctify by the Spirit.The intellect of men is taking the place of the work of the Spirit and of Christ our only true Pastor.
God works through people. God ordains teachers. God ordained those who were, and are, teachers before He launched space and time. He ordained them to be, and he ordained flocks to follow them. He ordained His Apostles to train them, and have them spread out into the world. Jesus himself was called Rabbi for the reason that he taught. God ordained deacons and elders to minister to ministry. God himself set this human hierarchy to be the set aside ones who are to teach the flocks. These men are students of Christianity. Theologians and pastors all on that stage, in a place of Christian academia, a place of spiritual scholastica. To be a teacher one must first learn. God set this to be.
@@monblkcat5990 God never ordain trough a academia . They learn to be denominational and they are like pope in their churches. They worship the intellect of men and a three headed gods and they chose themselves for salvation and for ministry. But God is One and he became flesh. The word became flesh he became not a second person of three different gods. This is how they are , the evangelical world is full of false teachers and doctors . Jesus is the true and unique pastors if we are in him and him in us, he is the holy Spirit in us.Only one God the Father and one Gospel by Grace. We are predestines to believe or not. We have the written word of God now and we can read scripture, they do not want us to have discernment they want us to obey them.
Vodie is a Ligonier Ministry sermonizer. Ferguson is a high theologian in the same organization. Wildly respected by Sproul and MacArthur, named by each as a premier living theologian. If I'm not mistaken, MacArthur is the lead now. They know Vodie, he knows both these men
David Pauley - Hi David, what were the specific things Keller said that demonstrated his liberalism? Are the other two speakers also sliding into aspects of liberalism (they both seem very supportive and even admiring toward Keller) - any thoughts?
hes bought into the lefts ideas of social justice, there is is no systemic racism , no racist culture , we are not culpable for the sins of our fathers ect. he talks about churches and organizations like there inherently all Christians when we all know very few are actually wheat .the idea we must be responsible for ultimate judgement when God will judge ,no guilty will escape justice . Keller has said many times he was intrigued with the teaching of Karl Marx and he is ,seemingly a cultural Marxist.Treatment of women in the church ??? really. and the few cases that do exist why should everyone apologize for something one person did? This nothing but liberal propaganda
Oh, I took David Pauley's comments as pertaining to "Theological Liberalism" but Jonathan Chamblee is referring to "Political Liberalism". I didn't know that Keller was "seemingly a cultural Marxist" -- I'll have to go back and listen to this (almost 2 hour) interview again because I didn't hear what I would deem "Cultural Marxist" statements the first time. Thanks, Jonathan.
@@tjcampo7129 I am addressing tim as a whole not this video exclusively. He is very sneaky in how he plants his views. Read his book generous justice , he confuses Christians mercy for justice . His famous quote .....the primary purpose of salvation is cultural renewal ,to make the world a better place. That should raise a red flag.
Disgusting that you would platform and applaud Tim Keller, one of the biggest deconstructionists of our time. As well as a critical theorist, evolutionist, and registered Democrat. What a titan of the faith
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As a non-American, I find it surprising how this comment section is filled with negative comments about Tim Keller and CRT, or calling him marxist/liberal. I have been so blessed by his GOSPEL-centred teaching, and also thankful for when he brings gospel issues to our practical reality, including social injustice. It's sad that some people are so quick to put him in a political/ideological box and discredit him for speaking about Injustice from a biblical standpoint (in other sermons, books etc). Some Americans seem to politicize certain biblical principles at once, and then 'cancel' whoever they disagree with on some issue. I'm not saying Tim is right about everything, nobody is. But I have high respect and admiration for his life and ministry. God bless him
The people living under a culture or a side of the political isle that remotely resembles Biblical principles can forget that they are not citizens of the world. There’re dangers in it, too.
It just a shows you the true character of people in the US, and how foolish they are to try and live by their depraved culture yet claim to be Christian.
Pray for them. Like Keller stated, their culture declares their understanding of the Bible, and their culture is depraved, so their “Christianity” that they think they’ve rationalized is somehow Biblical. They don’t understand they aren’t even saved and will perish if they don’t get over their ugly tendencies and seek Christ in submission. It’s almost a curse from God to let them be so falsely arrogant and confident, yet they’re following the devil and aren’t even Christians.
Why would you be surprised? It's a fallen world, and Christ said that we would receive the treatment that He did. Not everyone prays for wisdom and discernment.
@@knobendChristian Nationalists are not actual believers. They are Pharisees that get their identity from their political party and ideation. They have no interest in being Christ like
From the outside looking in, there seems to be the idolatry in politicizing Christianity to raise up being what a “true” American patriot should look like that is rampant in your country.
Good to hear from the late Tim Keller.
I still remember that review on Yelp of Redeemer Presbyterian Church from some ten years ago. Nothing I've ever heard or read about Redeemer has ever been proven more accurate or cogent.
Excerpts edited for brevity and clarity:
1/17/2011
I have been to Redeemer West side and East side services. I still go from time to time. I used to take part in several of the volunteer opportunities at Redeemer. First, I will start with the founding Pastor Tim Keller. Tim Keller's sermons are some of the most thought provoking you will ever hear in your life anywhere! He is also an author. I would go so far as to say that he is one of the great thinkers of our time. He is also a visionary in many ways. My husband and I regularly purchase and listen to his sermons.
So why only 3 stars? Because a church is more than just a pastor.
Now there is no perfect church. But there are some serious things lacking here:
First of all, there is no prayer meeting or focus on corporate prayer for the entire church. The very basic part of the Christian faith that Jesus himself said with his own lips was Matthew 21:13. "It is written," He said to them, "'My house will be called a house of prayer, but you are making it a den of robbers."
Prayer is just talking to God, it doesn't require any special talent, skill or training. So the lack of prayer at this church is very alarming to me.
And I haven't heard anyone speak of repentance at Redeemer --- ever. Again, I have listened to hundreds of sermons and been to at least a hundred services both on the W est and East sides.
The church ministries are called "ministries" but are run like any secular organization.
Redeemer Presbyterian is run like a business, a well-oiled corporate machine, and not a church.
The other 2 things which are cultural and not spiritual but are off-putting to me are:
1. Most of the members and regular visitors to Redeemer are transplants, not New Yorkers, so the church is a large city church but run like a small town church where there are very few native New Yorkers. It seems most of the members are not established in the city and are just passing through.
2. The other is that it seems the majority of the congregation is looking for a spouse, and very aggressively. When you walk in, the first thing people do is look at your hand for a ring, and then are bold enough to ask if it is a wedding ring. That experience is not unique to me, but to all of the guests I bring here. In addition, in any volunteer group I have been to, the small talk from both men and women centered around trying to find a spouse. Then the few married people were usually complaining about their marriages. The pastor knows about this, and does see it as a problem because he addresses it in his sermons. But people don't seem to listen. It is like they are all living in 1950's rural America.
One other major problem I have with the church is that it is mostly white and Asian. I believe the reason is that the congregation ---- and this is not the pastoral team's fault --- seems to be focused on their careers and making money, and not on God at all. God is there to bless their agendas; this is how they seem to operate.
I believe this is true for a few reasons. One, the culture of the church and focus of the congregation seems to be on Whites and Asians who make good money and have high-end careers, rather than on God. A huge basic tenet of the Christian faith is Death to Self. But at Redeemer, when you hear testimonies approved by the pastoral staff, they usually start with the person's professional credentials. I do not see any Death to Self there, but actually the opposite: It's "Look at what I can do for God because of my high income and education." It is not wrong to have a high income or education as a Christian. But the focus (at Redeemer) is wrong.
So for these reasons, I think the church is best for those who are not Christians yet but are seekers of God, or those established in the faith already. It is not good in my opinion for the average believer looking for a home church. But by all means, purchase Tim Keller's sermons and do something that the congregation fails to do: Learn from his sermons. The church in my opinion is more intellectual than spiritual.
end
I could listen to these guys for hours.
@Timothy J Keller beloved get a grip
This was such an interesting conversation with a lot of depth and insight. Real humility and wisdom. Definitely worth watching more than once.
lovely humble men of God ..need more of these in my life
Sherry Peyton, I have found it interesting how many women I speak with, these last 20 years after coming back to Christ, have remarked to me how refreshing it is to hear a man speak about God. The flames should be fanned daily to keep the fire burning bright. I want more of Him and less of me. God bless your faith with ever increasing desire to have more
@Paulo Lopez Lopez 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
Don't confuse the fact that they may be good at talking theology for being humble
@@metalcomposition I have been in a J Mcarthur Master seminary pastored church for yrs and been the janitor for that church for 11 yrs …trust me I know theology and I know humility when I see it … wish Christian’s would be less critical and kinder behind a keyboard .. the Lord knows the truth it will all be put right in the end …
I love the statement Tim Keller made that Reformed Theology has the most intense & pervasive appreciation of the Holy Spirit's work in a believers' life. So often we are accused of "not having the Holy Spirit, particularly if we are cessationists.
I totally agree.
JESUS! Please would you give Tim a great big kiss from us...look forward to meeting him with You.
Xxx
Tim Keller's critique of the modern church "assuming Christendom" is a brilliant insight. He is so honest in saying that the church in the West is mostly just flailing around.
But I'm here in England in September 2023 and I'm telling you now that I'm holding on to Jesus for DEAR LIFE. He's leading us home to The Father and The Holy Spirit is facilitating that as I type this. Whatever...God bless each one of us today.
Xxx
Great men, such great vessels to deliver Gods word, God Bless them!!
Thank you. Wonderful thoughtful Sunday afternoon listening. Daune
Ferguson’s replied about who should teach and not was amazing. Glory to God.
Yeah, the main difference I saw between Keller's response and Ferguson's response was Keller's was rooted in a personal opinion at the end of the day, Ferguson was based off an acknowledgement of careful scriptural application. I loved Ferguson's response!
I watch this often. Learn something new every time.
Before we are redeemed, we are in the presence of God’s wrath. God is omnipresent. After redemption we experience His grace and forgiveness.
RIGHT ON DR. FERGUSON.
This is the kind of dialogue we need today and the ability to admit one is wrong or agree to disagree. So many people have found a niche on RUclips knocking this or that and everyone is clamoring for the head of the one being criticized. I don’t necessarily like Steven Furtick but I read pro & con before making any sort of judgement and in the end, what I tell people, is don’t go to his church. Paul actually condoned teaching as long as Christ was mentioned. He attacked the theology not the person. Shalom
“Assuming Christendom” in the culture... that is what the church does. Father give us insight into how You want to expand Your Kingdom in our culture.
When tim was speaking about young ministers,i like to see older ministers who have been to hell and survived,they have wisdom where the young ones talk a good talk.
When ministers are preaching, it should be about God's word and wisdom through that, not their own.
As a young man almost in the pastorate, I do recognize the value of life wisdom. It opens up the text for us in myriad ways, even as Ferguson referenced that the end of Christendom has helped the modern church to unlock various new testament texts.
That being said, I agree with the previous reply that ministers if the gospel are not so bound by their own experiences that young ministers are inadequate solely on the basis of age. Although they should not be new converts, the job of a minister is not first to communicate experience. It is to communicate the word of God, rightly divided.
That is why single men too can make excellent ministers. It isn't a fruitful marriage that allows a man to help others have a fruitful marriage. It is the gospel rightly understood and applied to unique contexts that leads to fruitful marriages.
Thank you, excellent content.
Wonderful to listen too, sadly there is a distracting echo that is very annoying
I think the gospel is more then sufficient enough for the world, I don't think the physical church can do any better then to proclaim it and keep it's self clear of man made traditions. if it can do that by grace alone, all those with ears to hear will recognize it by grace alone. I don't think you can taylor a temporal physical church to the whims of the world to bring about repentance & regeneration. repentance, regeneration, it's all grace alone. it depends on the topic, lets say the early church came bare foot and lean not with suits and ties. I would say theres some leniency there.. but things like openly unrepentant homosexuality there is no leniency there. you have to go with sola scriptura otherwise a physical church can turn into a synagog of satan. the eturnal spiritual church is all ready predestined, the cross being effectual, so there's no worries there.
Keller looked like he was about to weep when asked about #churchtoo, which I hadn't heard of until now. Two years ago my church went through agony over the attempted luring of a girl child by a teenage boy, both children of members. There were tears and recriminations against the elders, who many perceived as having handled the matter incompetently. 80% of the congregation left, perceiving that the church was not safe for children. The boy was civilly prosecuted.
Civil prosecution should not scare away true believers . We face dangers to children everywhere. . . this is why I always recommend G.R.A.C.E
Godly Response to the Abuse ( of Chrildren) in Christian Environments.
As Christiams we are truly suffering fir the gospel everyday in our professions . While we directly and indirectly represent Christ in Professional spaces at tge intersection of Compassion and Justice.
GORDON -Conwell Theological Seminary is proud to claim both of the Kellers as our own alumni. You are putting to good use what David F.Wells taught you and your wife in the 1970's. Please stay reformed and not so woke.
@@johntobey1558why would you urge people to be less aware of injustice? Unless you don’t know what ‘woke’ means.
This is a master class in pastoral theology. The previous comments are like minnows snapping at a whale.
Yours is an argument from authority...not a valid argument.
@@dpastor6631 he didn't make an argument, he made an analogous metaphor
The company I work for had the same thing happen. The former CEO ruined the company and then hired consultants to persuade a potential buyer that the company was worth way more than it actually was. The company sold and he received a huge payout. He quickly retired, leaving the company in shambles. It's a joke.
I like it so much
Laws tend to go wrong if the foundation of is wrong. ...What a great insight. Imo.
Maybe we go wrong when we take the intellectual route or the emotional route.We have not to be conform with this world and is traditions we have to be in conformity with Christ mainly.Christianity look more and more at the image of this world, we are supposed to be teach and conduct by the Spirit but men want us under their governance, we cannot take Christ throne of authority as the modern pastors do.The reformation is far from being completed we have to let the Spirit not men inspired us and conduct us into the truth but if you are in a denomination you will become suspect because you do not follow them but Christ alone.Piety it's about doing no compromise to the truth and to accept to live in this desert island call the uncompromised love of the truth.
Gratitude and Honor unto our Heirs commanded to provide free space and room to grow! From here grows! Just to remind and comes with comfort! Nevertheless...therefore keep watch! As Heirs commanded to keep watch concerning the world at this very moment like all thy FEET resting upon the NEW very tip of time. What is crumbling? Students will say, feet resting upon will be DETERMINED! What is Sustained? Students will say what holds all these? Even the SUN AND THE MOON commanded to persevere! Students why our seasons changes at anytime? Fallen short don't persevere? Students thy worth is worth more than anything nor everything that exist! Liken unto a innocents little ...in the midst of all these Calls themselves nor exalted themselves above! What is a big head? For many have made themselves big heads! Offsprings preserve. Which ye all once! Love ye 3 pops! Gratitude and Honor. Likewise Gratitude and Honor go find thy rightful place upon all Feet. Comes with wiping thy tears from your eyes
What is without me? How can me exist? But 1ST. Has to share the "i" the CHILD sitting with the AM Father God unto the CHILD. What is revival? If ye all don't exist?
I'm a fan of yours in a big way Tim, but you really danced around the race issue in an attempt to take both sides. A simple answer to a complex problem, is love thy neighbor as you would love thyself. Slavery was wrong then it's wrong today, You're not accountable for your neighbor's sin.
I agree. He didn’t provide any value to the question. At least Ferguson’s response was back to the calling of the church as a starting point, not political power.
See my recent comment.
Atticus Finch himself would understand that Tom Robinson should have been listened to rather than those 12 white male juries. I think this is what Tim is saying .
I am disappointed Tim Keller didn’t speak about racism as a white male. Very disappointed. Being white doesn’t preclude you from being able to comment on it. It perpetuates the lie that racism is defined as being only against non-white people but not against white people. There is already a movement that is changing the definition of racism to exclude whites.
You can speak on racism no matter what color you are. Even if you are not a victim of racism, you probably know someone who has been. You can speak biblically on the wrongs of racism, personal observations of racism, biblical solutions and support efforts that move biblically based solutions forward.
Bowing out from the conversation of racism contributes to the major problem of the church excluding itself from influencing secular culture.
Down with: Woke Church Culture amd the war on White Evangelicalism being waged by Urban Black apologetics and their Social Gospel and James Cone like Black Liberation Theology. Be very careful to not accuse people of White Nationalism en route to exhanging the true gospel for a wtered down pro BLM civil religion. No more Trojan Horses Dr. KELLER.
I had Mark Noll at Wheaton College in the 1990's before he taught at Harvard and Notre Dame. Cultural isogesis is a danger when we exchange our politics for Theological categories.
No one ignores racism.
I don't think our focus should be on being persuasive. We need to focus on loving others.
@Timothy J Keller I'm sorry I don't know what you are talking about. It seems like you're asking for money?
And there goes the problem we're no longer worshiping God He is not our greatest treasure. We have to stop being philosophical or persuasive and tell the truth because the truth is that which sets you free.
Being persuasive in teaching is not mutually exclusive from loving others. Both are good. Tim very effectively uses scripture to inform and persuade the heart toward God. He also ties everything back to Jesus. His teachings have greatly deepened my understanding of scripture, and thus increased my utter sense of awe for God, and love for others.
You don't have to have a certain degree of melanin in your body to address racism. You don't have to have personally experienced racism to speak on racism. Tim Keller punted. This is the first Tim Keller video I have watched. I've never heard him before. Would Tim say the same thing when it comes to abortion, murder, theft, rape, human trafficking, gossip, gluttony, pride? When can a white christian male address these issues and not be shouted down-EVERYDAY OF THE WEEK. Disregard the shouting. The messiah walked thru the crowd as they prepared to stone him. I'm sure there was shouting going on.
How does Reformed theology understand the ongoing covenantal faithfulness of God to His chosen people, Israel/Jewish people?
Eph. 2:14 "For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit."
The three men in conversation is concerning especially when one knows how inaccurate of reality Genesis is and out of line with the order of evolution of our world in particular.
Wondering if you understand who are speaking. It would be like me going to a boxing match and asking, hey where are all the penguins at? 😊
Him, gentlemen. The Holy Spirit is a him, not an it.
Love Sinclair Ferguson; he has stayed true to Scripture. Tim Keller had been weaving CRT into his conversations long, long before 2018...his full-blown "woke-ness" was about burst on the scene. It has been sad to watch so many follow him down that path.
Pastor Keller is a primo example of not placing or faith in men. He’s held to a higher standard in Christ as a teacher. Makes me so sad that he is embracing and espousing crt even if not overtly at least in practice.
To mention that women can preach teach men in the church and teach class to men. Wow!
I am of Reformed faith for 50 years, went to a fine seminary later in life and I hardly understand anything these two say. Make what you say plain and clear. Most college educated ones I know cannot speak correct English and then there are those who must strain to give complicated words/answers that we are not able to understand...so their greatness is their pride with the jibberesh and inability to communicate. I could not get through all of this...GIVE me some biblical answers.
I think that’s a you problem. Sinclair rambled quite a bit on some questions but Tim was pretty concise.
I love Tim Keller, just wish he wasn’t so involved with CRT
This is the first time I have heard Timothy Keller but I've listened to Sinclair Ferguson for quite awhile and I just love the man, and the way he teaches with such care and love, you can't help notice in the way he teaches and his love for God,His son our Lord Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit, God's Word and God's Church! I'm so thankful for Pastor John MacArthur and his introduction to men like these especially thankful for the love of our triune God,Who has shown me so much through men like these.
@@garybennett492God bless you Gary !
What is crt?
Me as well
Me too
The race question is pointless. It is not a biblical question. Be a Christian in every way, out in culture. Tim says as a white man. Give me a break. How about you answer as a pastor.
Mbts PhD theological evangelical keybank
I'm lnc
K
K 20:07
I thought Keller is part of the new Left theology ?
I have problem with this institutional Christianism ; this was not Jesus way.Our pastor it's Christ not these modern pastors. They took all the place.We are not seminarian but CHRISTIAN seminarians produce men made ministers at the image of their denomination....the body of Christ is not denominational but teach and conduct and sanctify by the Spirit.The intellect of men is taking the place of the work of the Spirit and of Christ our only true Pastor.
God works through people. God ordains teachers. God ordained those who were, and are, teachers before He launched space and time. He ordained them to be, and he ordained flocks to follow them. He ordained His Apostles to train them, and have them spread out into the world. Jesus himself was called Rabbi for the reason that he taught. God ordained deacons and elders to minister to ministry. God himself set this human hierarchy to be the set aside ones who are to teach the flocks. These men are students of Christianity. Theologians and pastors all on that stage, in a place of Christian academia, a place of spiritual scholastica. To be a teacher one must first learn. God set this to be.
@@monblkcat5990 God never ordain trough a academia . They learn to be denominational and they are like pope in their churches. They worship the intellect of men and a three headed gods and they chose themselves for salvation and for ministry. But God is One and he became flesh. The word became flesh he became not a second person of three different gods. This is how they are , the evangelical world is full of false teachers and doctors . Jesus is the true and unique pastors if we are in him and him in us, he is the holy Spirit in us.Only one God the Father and one Gospel by Grace. We are predestines to believe or not. We have the written word of God now and we can read scripture, they do not want us to have discernment they want us to obey them.
Liberalism and deadness. This is what happened to Christendom at the end of the Puritan era
Regaring "race" these two need to meet Vodie Baucham.
Amen to that!
Vodie is a Ligonier Ministry sermonizer. Ferguson is a high theologian in the same organization. Wildly respected by Sproul and MacArthur, named by each as a premier living theologian. If I'm not mistaken, MacArthur is the lead now. They know Vodie, he knows both these men
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Not sure what people see in Keller, he has been slowly sliding into aspects of liberalism for years...
David Pauley - Hi David, what were the specific things Keller said that demonstrated his liberalism? Are the other two speakers also sliding into aspects of liberalism (they both seem very supportive and even admiring toward Keller) - any thoughts?
hes bought into the lefts ideas of social justice, there is is no systemic racism , no racist culture , we are not culpable for the sins of our fathers ect. he talks about churches and organizations like there inherently all Christians when we all know very few are actually wheat .the idea we must be responsible for ultimate judgement when God will judge ,no guilty will escape justice . Keller has said many times he was intrigued with the teaching of Karl Marx and he is ,seemingly a cultural Marxist.Treatment of women in the church ??? really. and the few cases that do exist why should everyone apologize for something one person did? This nothing but liberal propaganda
Oh, I took David Pauley's comments as pertaining to "Theological Liberalism" but Jonathan Chamblee is referring to "Political Liberalism". I didn't know that Keller was "seemingly a cultural Marxist" -- I'll have to go back and listen to this (almost 2 hour) interview again because I didn't hear what I would deem "Cultural Marxist" statements the first time. Thanks, Jonathan.
@@tjcampo7129 I am addressing tim as a whole not this video exclusively. He is very sneaky in how he plants his views. Read his book generous justice , he confuses Christians mercy for justice . His famous quote .....the primary purpose of salvation is cultural renewal ,to make the world a better place. That should raise a red flag.
OK - thank you. I'll keep my eye open for statements like that... I have access to that book and will search for the statement you quoted.
Disgusting that you would platform and applaud Tim Keller, one of the biggest deconstructionists of our time. As well as a critical theorist, evolutionist, and registered Democrat. What a titan of the faith
Absolutely men alone no womwn teach men! Ridiculous just read the bible!
Keller is so disappointing. Ruining my G3 ministry.