You never lied. Even with 27 years experience I have actually failed at least 3 welding tests. If you are too confident you will rush and you will f---up lol. Take your time.
Great instructions. Just love the way that you transfer information in an honest way. I have learned so very much from you on welding. I am trying to get as much about flux core welding as possible. I have been doing stick welding as a DIYer for years now but at 79 years of age, I am always learning. Who says that you can't teach an old dog new tricks? Your videos are so informative. Thank you very much. Continue to do what you do best!!
4 года назад+63
My career required me to weld every day (even underwater), now that I no longer work, I do keep a 110v fluxcore wirefeed in my garage. Sometimes you just need an inch or so of ugly fusion just to make a quick repair. Carrying a 20 pound unit that plugs into any power supply on my property is handy. Of course it is not perfect, but you don't always need perfect.
I just used my little welder yesterday haven't welded in over 12 year's how rusty I am and the welder flux wire spattered every where I couldn't get the machine to run right it hesitate when the wire coming out. Time for a new machine not shire what brand I'm going to buy nor shire if it makes a difference. For home use diffently not going to spend not 2,000 on a machine.
@@bryanroupe8646 theres only like 1 stainless flux core brand. either way you can weld mild steel flux to stainless metal, just paint it with clearcoat so it don't rust, paint the whole thing actually. stainless welding is for mig and tig, not flux
Just pick up welding as a hobby. I’ve been a master frammer and a contractor building and remolding homes for awhile but I want to say your a great teacher and really learn a lot from your videos. Thank you! And keep up the great work you explain it perfectly where people like me can understand. 👍
I really enjoy Bob. Bringing up mistakes that he makes really helps the rest of not feel so bad when we do the same thing, and reminds us what to look for. Keep up the great work.
I really appreciate the test. I just bought an 11 lb Spool of Vulcan .030 MIG wire for $28. I haven't used it yet but I stopped by my local welding supply store to compare prices and found a 10 lb Spool of their brand for $65, more than twice the price. I think your test is awesome but some mention should be made of the price difference and the relative small differences in the weld quality you so eloquently pointed out.
That's your first mistake, buying stuff from a supply shop . Only thing to buy from a shop is gas everything else you can buy online wires... regulators...welders...cutting tools... consumables all much cheaper than at a welding shop. Lowes and home depot are usually priced better than a welding shop for Lincoln wire . I bought a mig gun in a pinch once at a Denver supply shop for my small handler 210 with the 3/8 bayonet I had a new flexible neck gun ordered with a 15ft lead to reolace the old gun but I needed to keep welding on my days off to keep my project on time ...lol... They hit me at $267...for the cheapest hobart gun with an 3/8 bayonet and damn shot 8ft lead that same mig gun is $100 on eBay stores it didn't even have the plug with it I had to cut the old trigger plug off the old gun . So buying anything more than gas at a weld supply shop is like throwing money out the window.
I have the HF Titanium Easy Flux 125, I recently switched from the pack in wire, to Lincoln 0.035 wire, and it is like a completely different machine. So much cleaner welds, easier to get dialed in and overall better experience. I am glad to see that you guys had a similar result.
I've had an LE 125HD for years but never really had a need or the extra money to build anything with it until recently. I'm currently building a sawmill and I've been watching tons of your videos and have learned a great deal. My welding is getting better and better because of it and I've gotten to where I really enjoy it. Thank you for taking the time to make all these videos and educating us home hobbyist types.
My favorite has always been leaving the ground clamp sitting on the table unclamped. Welding from two places at once is such a shocking thing to see in your peripheral..
Perception of vendor & products might be most of the issue, plus past experience, what is being welded, commercial or home use, etc., most likely will make the choice of wire. If I were welding a candle holder I would use HF wire, but and item that required structural soundness the Lincoln wire. I don't expect to get Snap On quality out of a HF item, but for infrequent use the HF might be fine. Example; I would not buy a wheel puller, vise, or electric power tool from HF, but have had some air tools that work fine. I like your presentation of the video - good job.
I have never welded yet. I just bought a used stick welder, 100 amp old one - just something to start out with. I have learned a lot from this video! I think quality welding materials are just as important as having a quality made welder. Thanks for what you do!
i barley use flux core any more, but when i was using the harbor freight flux core in the past it was always porous. when i switched to primarily non flux the Lincoln wire welded so much better i thought i magically became a master welder behind the trigger compared to the HF wire. glad to know it wasnt just me
I tried TIG without a ground clamp a couple of times. The tip shot sparks like a Van de Graaff generator, and I got a nice tingle everywhere I was even remotely grounded. I don't recommend it, and it didn't weld for squat.
Thanks for the objectivity and test - am a novice here, looking get a first flux core welder. As any old timer knows, beginners need to start with the best they can afford, as they don't have the experience to see/know when something isn't like it should be based on the typical beginner's impulse to buy cheap until they learn. Thanks, learned a lot about technique from watching, and choice of wire to start with from your youtube test. Appreciate.
Watching your videos has definitely given me the direction to keep going forward and learn more about what is out there in the welding world. It's interesting and extremely cool to see how you treat your welds with care and consistency.
Thank you for confirming my thoughts and testing concluded very similar results 2yrs ago- I do tinker and am not a professional welder but love to stick some metal together about 26 yrs worth and since my work is for nothing structural or lives at stake- i will buy Harbor freight and if I have a need for structural strength I'll use the lincoln.
Thanks Bob, great video. I've never used the HF wire but have tried Weldcote wire in my Lincoln Powermig 210 MP. The Weldcote is about half the price of the Lincoln wire but I just couldn't get it to run as well as the Lincoln wire. It may be my lack of ability but I will pay the few bucks more for the Lincoln wire gladly.
MP211 is a multi pass wire. E71T-GS is a single pass wire designed for welding coated steel and plated/galvanized steel. 211 is expected to perform better on clean steel but not so much on the coated steel (as per what specifications say). A test on galvanized or painted substrate would be a welcome addition to this video for a fair comparison.
I’ve been welding for 20+ years. Always forget the clamp 🤦🏻♂️ never even checked for what polarity different rods have needed just burn and turn. I have t used gasless wire either. Learning everyday. Cheers Bob.
If your a budget conscious hobbyist who ONLY has HF wire laying around and you need to stick something together I think it could do the trick but if your in any kind of critical repair... go for the Lincoln stuff... I put together a usable saw cart holding a 130 lb saw using the HF wire but that is a relatively low load application too.
Hf wire isn't terrible. It's all I've used but I haven't welded in a while and just started looking at videos. I've welded on quite a few things including a notch in my subframe for header clearance. It's a decent wire but I'm sure there are better
@@leeharvey9006 In my case, the Lincon Electric worked better, but this was under "less than ideal conditions." But yeah, it works but in my opinion, it is worth spending a few $$$ extra if you can get something that gives fewer headaches.
Thanks for the video. About 4 months ago, I got a Hobart 140. Decided to go with their wire, both solid and flux. Not much more in cost than HF. I picked the Hobart 'cuz I can run it with my 5.5k generator. I've been learning a lot watching you. Thanks again.
@@anthonymarino4260 Good for you. I've saved much more money fixing my own stuff that what I've paid for my system. Hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine.
hey Bob, beginner/novice/hobbyist here. I have the Titanium flux core welder from Harbor freight. It retails at $179, use the same wire that you had mentioned. Well, I have used it with the harbor freight wire and welded new steel to the frame of my car. No porosity, great penetration, and had blow throughs in spots, but after it cooled down I hit it again to fill in my errors. Well, it's been through the worse driving conditions in the US, every road everywhere in NYS. My patch over a hole the size of a grape fruit is still holding strong. Though a note to mention, the welder claims to set for 1/8th in steel to e.5 on the voltage and 10 ipm wire speed, I come to find that to be impossible as that's too fast of a sped, I set it to about 6-7 ipm wire speed and it works perfect. I tried Hobart in it for a few art projects I have been working on, ugly welds, lots of spatter and porosity. I think Hobart wire just is trash. Lincoln I haven't tried yet as I haven't found any 2.5 lbs rolls locally to purchase it. So I am back to my harbor freight wire. The welder came with the grooved roller that nicks the wire as it passes through. I only notice a feed jam issue if I somehow tangled up the hire loom from the machine to the gun. a typical green horn error I believe, especially when welding without ever having any kind of instruction. I believe you were using a MIG welder, just a curious note, was the roller grooved or smooth? if smooth like migs normally use, maybe that was the feed issues. I tried smooth once in my welder, that made it have the feed issues you had in the first part of the 2 part comparison video. As I stated before, I haven't been trained by anyone. I learn as I do it. I purposely, or accidently screw up just to learn. Smooth rollers was a screw up. Other than that possibility, I don't see any feed issues with the harbor freight, even after it bird nested on me. I just figured I'll bring that up as a question if the rollers were the proper one or not. I'm sure it was the proper roller given your experience in the craft. However I am just wondering if maybe it was one minor issue that you could've failed to notice in time or mention? Other than that, I love your videos as I have only recently come to youtube to get more welding project ideas
Very late to the party and a dollar short... But, consider next test as a "double blind"... Have an assistant set up the wire so you cannot identify the product until after welding... That way you remove any doubt you are treating one with a little bias... My penny's worth...
What I find significant is that, given the extreme brand loyalty for machines of various colors, there is a consensus that Lincoln wire is about the best.
Im no pro nor will I ever be. I think its the hobby guy thats watches your video's. I will never weld anything where someone could get hurt if it broke. I enjoy your video's and it has helped me learn so much. Please keep them coming. I have a cheap flux and a cheap stick. The greatest feeling is to think of something and then go make it. It may look bad or not work the first time. Try again and maybe again. Then pay dirt it works and looks pretty good. Nowhere to your caliber or other pro's but I still made it myself. Thanks again for teaching a desk guy.
Does forgetting to turn on the electrical breaker count? I'm scratching my head, the dam thing is plugged in Check! Ground clamp attached, making good contact, CHECK!!! Why the hell won't this welder work. Touch the positive lead to the ground lead, no spark's, oh no the welder is broken. Go to the Electric panel to turn off the power, and realize what a dummy I am. Have to admit, the welder did work better with the power turned on.
About making mistakes and forgetting things, that's why it was "prayers, pills, wallet, keys, phone, lunch..." before leaving the house. Also at a road intersection, counting 1,2,3 while looking each way, to make sure I wasn't just taking a perfunctory glance for traffic. Green light, stop sign, right of way, it doesn't matter...esp now with texting traffic. Student drivers should be taught that habit. 1,2,3..Left.....1,2,3, Right.. PS this is a great site and I subscribed.
Bob, as usual.. great video!! Like you, I've been manipulating molten metals for 40 years... Always learning new things.. Absolutely love your videos! I'm picky about my wire.. I don't like ones that don't do well..and I HATE some of the less expensive, high silica stuff that splatters!!!
@@simclardy1 true story. Where I work we have clients that ask us to lincoln wire only for super austenitic using 625 inconel as a filler. If we use any other brand they will reject the part regardless of what xray, PT or visual inspection says.
great side by side of the Lincoln & harbor freight gasless fluxcore wire....I totally agree after looking at the more consistent puddle (Lincoln) and HF lil more spatter and (porosity). the choice is pretty clear Lincoln is the way to go
Thanks for the second video to my question in the first video and thanks for your efforts also. The second pass looked a lot better than the first pass for the harbor freight wire. Lincoln is the wire to go with. Maybe for the backyard guy, they could get by with the harbor freight wire but for commerical applications Lincoln wire should be the choice.
"For 40 years I've been trying to weld without a ground clamp and it never works out" HAHA! I tell you what if I wasn't old and used up id go to your school to learn more about welding lol
For 1/3 the price $25 spool, I’ll keep using my Chinese wire. Until I start structural or x ray welding I’ll splurge for the Lincoln at $65 a spool. Hasn’t failed me on any of my garage or customer projects yet. But then again I’m not doing high risk work. Just house welds and easy quick side jobs.
For a hobby or DIY welder like me, I agree! If it's clean and it holds, that's all that's going to matter for me! I leave the pretty stuff to the pros!
Consider the jobs you are supporting. Until harbor freight become accountable i will avoid them. I would hate to save money at the expense of the worker in the factory making the wire
You must live In China and pick up local because a 10lb spool of Chicago Electric .030 fluxcore is only about $10 less than a 10lb spool of nr-211 mp 0.30 . Chicago Electric at $70 10lb spool vs $80 10lb spool of Mr 211 mp. . There isn't a huge price gap between the wires. It's kinda like some of the recent power tools hobofreight sells they are only $15-20 less than the name branded tools so you're not really saving anything buying China-electric.
@@yerwrng where do you live I know where I am a 10 lb spool of harbor freight wire is 44.99 Lincoln sells at 179.99 i buy the lincoln for my work machine because it gets x-rayed and I don't want any issues for my home projects ill buy the cheapest i can get
Hello Bob, Always interesting to compare real world situations. The price factor needs to be considered also. If HF is half the price of lincoln and I am doing non structural that would make quite a difference. I also seemed to hear less pulsing from the HF wire. Is that good or bad? Personally lately for home wire I am using Blue Fox, I believe, anyway I get it off Amazon and pay less than half what the local welding shop wants for their non major brand. Especially in the 5043 Aluminum wire the price difference is huge. They don't even carry the flux core stainless wire so although it is pricey I get Blue Fox brand also in that. that would be an interesting topic for you to do. I don't use it much as most of my stainless I do with stick but I am going to try some in my next project. We will see how it does. My other question would be where is the wire manufactured? Is all of it out of only a very few plants or do they each actually spec and or produce their own version? Good video once again. You have an easy to watch presentation style. Take care. Doug
Thanks Bob, Another great video, Here in Australia, our discount hardware store is called Bunnings. I get the idea, cheap chinese merchandise and some "Name" brands. The Chinese stuff is sometimes ok, but not always. At work I do a lot of Mig welding with solid wire and I find the Lincoln a better product overall than the cheaper stuff our boss sometimes buys.
You blinked more on side one and I saw hour hand move ten times vs eight times on HF. A instructor who prob knows something about gluing metal together gave his opinion. If someone knows more then why watch his videos make ur own. Thank you sir for sharing your time and experience. I can make metal stick together but that does not make me a welder, so watching someone who knows the black magic of welding is great.
Thanks for doing it again. It did seem to show a bit more penetration with the Miller wire but as you mentioned at the end they all are not perfect all the way through the spools. Prep is more likely the better insurance with both wires knowing the amps and feed rate to use.
great videos and comparison between the two. I've run as many different brands of flux core wire as I could get my hands on in the past couple years and I am OK for a hobbyist. aside from my first roll ever, I've never had a 2lb spool unroll other than the Lincoln. had it happen 3 times, 3 separate spools, damnedest thing! the little bit I could get to run through did seem like nice consistent feed.
I have tried this and the Lincoln wire won every time... I have a cheap HF flux core machine and even on it the Lincoln wire makes a lot of difference...
How about doing a video comparing duel shield wire in Lincoln and ESAB?? I have run both extensively over the years but have never done penetration tests and I'm very curious to see what your results and preference would be!?
Just bought a 125 mig welder from HF. The included mig wire that came with the machine ran and looked better than the extra spool of Vulcan I bought for my project the Vulcan pulsed and the stock wire didn't. I am going to get the Lincoln wire for my go to filler wire.
I'm not sure what to make of this... I do appreciate the attempt to make a fair test, but as soon as I saw your setup for the HFT wire (around 5:35) I noticed that your bottom plate was bowed and you had a gap in the middle, the same area as you got porosity (I'm not sure that I can make a great argument that they are related but it was there). It also looked like your travel/stickout wasn't as consistent on the first pass with the HFT wire (might have been inconsistencies with the wire) but you couldn't confirm because unlike the passes with the lincoln you didn't have the welder display up in the video (you could see when you were making the lincoln passes how much the V and A were varying). The plates also didn't look to be ground back as nicely as the first set, but that could have just been camera angle and it really shouldn't matter for flux core. That said, I have used both wires, and I haven't seen a difference in the two (I don't recall any porosity issues with either, even though I tend to only use flux core on nastier jobs, like welding stake pockets onto a trailer outside), but I will admit that if I had both sitting there and the project is something that I really cared about I'd reach for the lincoln first and if it was something that just needed to be stuck together I'd reach for the HFT... though I don't really feel like that bias is justified from the results that I have had.
Just purchased a HF Titanium 125 flux core machine for outdoor welding on lighter materials. Went to Tractor Supply and found their store brand Jobsmart wire for $9.99 a 2lb spool. Seems like pretty good stuff and definitely a bargain.
I tend to run gas with my cheap FC wire because of the risk of porosity. Up here Princess Auto is our Harbor freight and the difference in price is 5 fold so on large projects the cheap wire gets the nod, even with the gas it's about a $12 a pound saving. Great comparison Thanks.
I think a more important factor between these 2 brands is the storage and time on shelf in the store or warehouse. HF stores are all air conditioned and have lower humidity than ambient. Home Depot and Lowe's both have open doors many days of the year and as a result, the humidity is very high. Add to that, they bring in tons of wet lumber daily on one side and have a garden department (with hourly waterings) on the other side. Everyone nows that humidity is bad for flux core wires. Your average HF store probably sells more wire in a week than Home Depot and Lowe's do in 6 months, so the wire at HF is newer and kept in conditioned space compared to HD.
As a guy who never welded but wants to learn, which welder should I buy not going into a professional welder. There are so many to choose from. Would a stick welder be more to my level or would a mig be better suited for me. I do not have a 220 line so I would want to use a regular 110 outlet. I need your recommendation. Thank you.
with this great video, I guess it kind of justify for the average DIY at small projects to save with harbor freight wires , is not much difference overall... if doing welding for daily or professional jobs , then you want the best for the jobs ... thanks this video helps on the pocket!
I am very new to welding after lessons 15 years ago. ( just got a HF 115v welder and using the Vulcan .030 wire ) I have seen a few videos on YT and it seems the Vulcan HF wire needs to run a little faster than the others tested. ( one test had 2 brands that needed to run faster ) If you sped up the HF wire, would it have made a difference ? Thanks for the testing.
Good video, I've used Lincoln and Miller wire welders and they are the standard because theyv'e been around a long time but it looks like harbor freight makes a decent little hobby or small project welder
Great video. Very well done, and well thought out. Both wires did not run a great first pass, both ran a better second pass, but even with the cold fist pass, that Lincoln wire did a better one. But I dont see either one being a bad wire, but you can see that one is a better oen.
Your a great teacher. I want to learn how to weld to assist in some my mechanical jobs. I use an oxygen/acetylene torch to braze copper and I became good at it after a while. I think I could pick up on it pretty quickly.
If you gas torch weld you can definitely weld with wire. Stick takes a lot of practice and tig does too but you already have an idea of the technique if you can do that.
Great comparison. You now have me curious, I plan to buy some harbor freight wire and give it a try! Great instructional video as well. I feel better that I am not the only one out there that gets all in position anticipating the first spot weld only to find out I left the ground clamp off!! Good work.
I’m not a professional welder and have welded light gauge things around my farm for many years and the Lincoln wire is the best I’ve used in my HF 125 amp welder. I only use the .030 Lincoln wire. I run things on a tight budget or I would have a Lincoln or Miller welder.
I am partial to Lincoln but it was said for infrequent use go HF, if it's for infrequent use you don't use that much so how do you enter cost as a factor? Just saying. Fantastic video again Bob as always yore never a disappointment.👍👍
MP211 is an e70t-11 (mp = multi pass) FC wire, and the HF wire is like most common FC wire, e70t-gs. e70t-11 is a standard that manufacturers conform to, and the e70t-gs appears to be not a strict specification, which isn't rated for multi pass.
Hi Bob, I expected if there was a winner it would be the Lincoln brand. Back in the day there was no HF. Lincoln has made fine products for years. Do you know where those wires are manufactured? Could there be a quality controll issue? Thanks, Donald
+Bob Moffatt from what I've read harbor freight wire is made by INE. INE wire is made in Italy. They've been making welding supplies since the 40s. Long before HF. I've used the Lincoln wire and the HF/INE I've found that they both seem to have a place. The HF wire seems to work well for thin metals like tubular steel. But that's just my opinion. I'm far from a pro welder.
Donald in New Mexico Likely HF is out of China but then again Lincoln could be out of China or Poland or the U.S. or Canada or about 45 other countries because they have bought up companies across the globe. It all comes down to quality control and I would suspect HF buys manufacturing overruns from dozens of companies and has them packaged under their logo. If you buy 60 or 70 thousand pounds A year for your manufacturing plant robot's you can get A consistent wire built to your specifications but if you buy 25 or 50 pounds A year your going to get whatever comes off the end of A production run.
We've found that there are two different suppliers of Harbor Freight wire. One is from Italy and one is from China. The one from this video was the China variation. You can see which you are getting by looking on the packaging to see where it is manufactured.
Done the same test, the Italian wire is the one to look for. Much more consistent, smoother welds, less spatter. Harbor Freight wire is fine if you run out on the weekend and it's 8:30 p.m. and you need to get your project done! But if you are charging for your work, get the best wire the client can afford. Don't skimp out when your name and reputation are on the line.
Run out of wire on a weekend project? Sure, use the HF. The difference in cost per foot of weld, to me, doesn't justify using it regularly though. I'm bad enough at welding on my own. I don't need to add cheap wire to blame my crappy welds on. Ha!
were i live they sell the Lincoln wire at the home depot...The is a home depot every couple of miles as a posed to harbor freight every 30 miles...by the time you add your time and fuel it`s cheaper to just use the Lincoln wire...And better...thanks for the in depth video showing the results...
Admitting you make mistakes even after years of experience really helps beginners to not be so nervous on making mistakes while they learn.
You never lied. Even with 27 years experience I have actually failed at least 3 welding tests. If you are too confident you will rush and you will f---up lol. Take your time.
And yet, to still be trying to weld without a ground clamp after 40 years seems a little stubborn. 😉
for sure!
Great instructions. Just love the way that you transfer information in an honest way. I have learned so very much from you on welding. I am trying to get as much about flux core welding as possible.
I have been doing stick welding as a DIYer for years now but at 79 years of age, I am always learning.
Who says that you can't teach an old dog new tricks?
Your videos are so informative. Thank you very much. Continue to do what you do best!!
My career required me to weld every day (even underwater), now that I no longer work, I do keep a 110v fluxcore wirefeed in my garage. Sometimes you just need an inch or so of ugly fusion just to make a quick repair. Carrying a 20 pound unit that plugs into any power supply on my property is handy.
Of course it is not perfect, but you don't always need perfect.
I just used my little welder yesterday haven't welded in over 12 year's how rusty I am and the welder flux wire spattered every where I couldn't get the machine to run right it hesitate when the wire coming out. Time for a new machine not shire what brand I'm going to buy nor shire if it makes a difference. For home use diffently not going to spend not 2,000 on a machine.
@@snoopu2601 I love the little Titanium welder at harbor freight. 179.00 on sale little light weight dc out put. Cheap welding around the house.
@@pawisede226fl hey have you ever tried to weld stainless with the titanium 125 ?
@@bryanroupe8646 theres only like 1 stainless flux core brand. either way you can weld mild steel flux to stainless metal, just paint it with clearcoat so it don't rust, paint the whole thing actually. stainless welding is for mig and tig, not flux
@@eksine I was referring to the blue devil flux core wire for stainless welding
Mr your are an amazing instructor. I enjoy every video you make . Keep it up .
Just pick up welding as a hobby. I’ve been a master frammer and a contractor building and remolding homes for awhile but I want to say your a great teacher and really learn a lot from your videos. Thank you! And keep up the great work you explain it perfectly where people like me can understand. 👍
I really enjoy Bob. Bringing up mistakes that he makes really helps the rest of not feel so bad when we do the same thing, and reminds us what to look for. Keep up the great work.
I could do a whole video (series) on my screw ups!!
"For 40 Years I've been trying to weld without this ground clamp, and it's never worked yet." ROFL!
its a rookie mistake, I'm a federally contracted welder and I sometimes forget to clamp still to this day.
I need a ground clamp?
it took me a few seconds to get that joke. it's a good one
😂🤣🤷♂️
@@tfr6
So, you are saying you are still a rookie?
I really appreciate the test. I just bought an 11 lb Spool of Vulcan .030 MIG wire for $28. I haven't used it yet but I stopped by my local welding supply store to compare prices and found a 10 lb Spool of their brand for $65, more than twice the price. I think your test is awesome but some mention should be made of the price difference and the relative small differences in the weld quality you so eloquently pointed out.
That's your first mistake, buying stuff from a supply shop . Only thing to buy from a shop is gas everything else you can buy online wires... regulators...welders...cutting tools... consumables all much cheaper than at a welding shop. Lowes and home depot are usually priced better than a welding shop for Lincoln wire .
I bought a mig gun in a pinch once at a Denver supply shop for my small handler 210 with the 3/8 bayonet I had a new flexible neck gun ordered with a 15ft lead to reolace the old gun but I needed to keep welding on my days off to keep my project on time ...lol... They hit me at $267...for the cheapest hobart gun with an 3/8 bayonet and damn shot 8ft lead that same mig gun is $100 on eBay stores it didn't even have the plug with it I had to cut the old trigger plug off the old gun . So buying anything more than gas at a weld supply shop is like throwing money out the window.
I have the HF Titanium Easy Flux 125, I recently switched from the pack in wire, to Lincoln 0.035 wire, and it is like a completely different machine. So much cleaner welds, easier to get dialed in and overall better experience. I am glad to see that you guys had a similar result.
Try the .03 wire, it's even better in that welder. It seems like it struggles a bit with .035
@@GeneralChangFromDanang Mine has never struggled with the 0.035; if anything it struggles less
I've had an LE 125HD for years but never really had a need or the extra money to build anything with it until recently. I'm currently building a sawmill and I've been watching tons of your videos and have learned a great deal. My welding is getting better and better because of it and I've gotten to where I really enjoy it. Thank you for taking the time to make all these videos and educating us home hobbyist types.
My favorite has always been leaving the ground clamp sitting on the table unclamped. Welding from two places at once is such a shocking thing to see in your peripheral..
Perception of vendor & products might be most of the issue, plus past experience, what is being welded, commercial or home use, etc., most likely will make the choice of wire. If I were welding a candle holder I would use HF wire, but and item that required structural soundness the Lincoln wire. I don't expect to get Snap On quality out of a HF item, but for infrequent use the HF might be fine. Example; I would not buy a wheel puller, vise, or electric power tool from HF, but have had some air tools that work fine.
I like your presentation of the video - good job.
Terrific instructor ! Unbiased and clearly Honest , THANKS 😊
I have never welded yet. I just bought a used stick welder, 100 amp old one - just something to start out with. I have learned a lot from this video! I think quality welding materials are just as important as having a quality made welder. Thanks for what you do!
i barley use flux core any more, but when i was using the harbor freight flux core in the past it was always porous. when i switched to primarily non flux the Lincoln wire welded so much better i thought i magically became a master welder behind the trigger compared to the HF wire.
glad to know it wasnt just me
The pre-heated second side weld looked so much better on both wires.
Yeah, makes me want to pre-heat important welds with a propane torch.
I tried TIG without a ground clamp a couple of times. The tip shot sparks like a Van de Graaff generator, and I got a nice tingle everywhere I was even remotely grounded. I don't recommend it, and it didn't weld for squat.
Thanks for the objectivity and test - am a novice here, looking get a first flux core welder. As any old timer knows, beginners need to start with the best they can afford, as they don't have the experience to see/know when something isn't like it should be based on the typical beginner's impulse to buy cheap until they learn. Thanks, learned a lot about technique from watching, and choice of wire to start with from your youtube test. Appreciate.
Watching your videos has definitely given me the direction to keep going forward and learn more about what is out there in the welding world. It's interesting and extremely cool to see how you treat your welds with care and consistency.
Thank you for confirming my thoughts and testing concluded very similar results 2yrs ago- I do tinker and am not a professional welder but love to stick some metal together about 26 yrs worth and since my work is for nothing structural or lives at stake- i will buy Harbor freight and if I have a need for structural strength I'll use the lincoln.
Thanks Bob, great video. I've never used the HF wire but have tried Weldcote wire in my Lincoln Powermig 210 MP. The Weldcote is about half the price of the Lincoln wire but I just couldn't get it to run as well as the Lincoln wire. It may be my lack of ability but I will pay the few bucks more for the Lincoln wire gladly.
Thank you Bob for keeping it real and calling yourself out when it happens.
MP211 is a multi pass wire. E71T-GS is a single pass wire designed for welding coated steel and plated/galvanized steel. 211 is expected to perform better on clean steel but not so much on the coated steel (as per what specifications say). A test on galvanized or painted substrate would be a welcome addition to this video for a fair comparison.
Bob, you are an excellent teacher. The tell it like it is kind. Thank you! I've learned a lot from your videos.
Dont be a quitter if any one can make welding work without a ground clamp it's you , we have faith in you, you can do it !
I’ve been welding for 20+ years. Always forget the clamp 🤦🏻♂️ never even checked for what polarity different rods have needed just burn and turn. I have t used gasless wire either. Learning everyday. Cheers Bob.
Thank you for sharing your years of experience with us. You are a great teacher.
If your a budget conscious hobbyist who ONLY has HF wire laying around and you need to stick something together I think it could do the trick but if your in any kind of critical repair... go for the Lincoln stuff... I put together a usable saw cart holding a 130 lb saw using the HF wire but that is a relatively low load application too.
Hf wire isn't terrible. It's all I've used but I haven't welded in a while and just started looking at videos. I've welded on quite a few things including a notch in my subframe for header clearance. It's a decent wire but I'm sure there are better
@@leeharvey9006 In my case, the Lincon Electric worked better, but this was under "less than ideal conditions." But yeah, it works but in my opinion, it is worth spending a few $$$ extra if you can get something that gives fewer headaches.
Reminds me of my High School Shop teacher. Mr. Doyle if you ever got caught leaving the chuck key in they lathe he would throw it at you. LoL
you mentioned figuring out the wire feed issue from the part one video. what fixed the problem?
Thanks for the video. About 4 months ago, I got a Hobart 140. Decided to go with their wire, both solid and flux. Not much more in cost than HF. I picked the Hobart 'cuz I can run it with my 5.5k generator. I've been learning a lot watching you. Thanks again.
just got h140 starting to weld. im gainging
@@anthonymarino4260 Good for you. I've saved much more money fixing my own stuff that what I've paid for my system. Hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine.
Bob Moffatt, the Hickock45 of Welding! Great content and I love your dry humor. Glad I'm not the only one that tries to weld without a ground. lol
hey Bob, beginner/novice/hobbyist here. I have the Titanium flux core welder from Harbor freight. It retails at $179, use the same wire that you had mentioned. Well, I have used it with the harbor freight wire and welded new steel to the frame of my car. No porosity, great penetration, and had blow throughs in spots, but after it cooled down I hit it again to fill in my errors. Well, it's been through the worse driving conditions in the US, every road everywhere in NYS. My patch over a hole the size of a grape fruit is still holding strong. Though a note to mention, the welder claims to set for 1/8th in steel to e.5 on the voltage and 10 ipm wire speed, I come to find that to be impossible as that's too fast of a sped, I set it to about 6-7 ipm wire speed and it works perfect. I tried Hobart in it for a few art projects I have been working on, ugly welds, lots of spatter and porosity. I think Hobart wire just is trash. Lincoln I haven't tried yet as I haven't found any 2.5 lbs rolls locally to purchase it. So I am back to my harbor freight wire. The welder came with the grooved roller that nicks the wire as it passes through. I only notice a feed jam issue if I somehow tangled up the hire loom from the machine to the gun. a typical green horn error I believe, especially when welding without ever having any kind of instruction. I believe you were using a MIG welder, just a curious note, was the roller grooved or smooth? if smooth like migs normally use, maybe that was the feed issues. I tried smooth once in my welder, that made it have the feed issues you had in the first part of the 2 part comparison video. As I stated before, I haven't been trained by anyone. I learn as I do it. I purposely, or accidently screw up just to learn. Smooth rollers was a screw up. Other than that possibility, I don't see any feed issues with the harbor freight, even after it bird nested on me. I just figured I'll bring that up as a question if the rollers were the proper one or not. I'm sure it was the proper roller given your experience in the craft. However I am just wondering if maybe it was one minor issue that you could've failed to notice in time or mention? Other than that, I love your videos as I have only recently come to youtube to get more welding project ideas
Very late to the party and a dollar short...
But, consider next test as a "double blind"...
Have an assistant set up the wire so you cannot identify the product until after welding...
That way you remove any doubt you are treating one with a little bias...
My penny's worth...
Nice looking cat
Up vote
Youre probably owed change. Back from that Penny. Holy crap, this is not end of the world priority, he's just truing to show a simple comparison.
What I find significant is that, given the extreme brand loyalty for machines of various colors, there is a consensus that Lincoln wire is about the best.
You should make them buy you a fume extractor, man. Your videos are honest and useful.
Thanks Bob, I thought it interesting the weld shape on the second side especially on the vertical.
Im no pro nor will I ever be. I think its the hobby guy thats watches your video's. I will never weld anything where someone could get hurt if it broke. I enjoy your video's and it has helped me learn so much. Please keep them coming. I have a cheap flux and a cheap stick. The greatest feeling is to think of something and then go make it. It may look bad or not work the first time. Try again and maybe again. Then pay dirt it works and looks pretty good. Nowhere to your caliber or other pro's but I still made it myself. Thanks again for teaching a desk guy.
Been welding 30+ years and I agree with your choice. Lincoln would be my choice also.
ground clamp, ive done that. but have you ever tryed to weld with out pluging the welder in? and no it dident weld very well or at all..
Does forgetting to turn on the electrical breaker count? I'm scratching my head, the dam thing is plugged in Check! Ground clamp attached, making good contact, CHECK!!! Why the hell won't this welder work. Touch the positive lead to the ground lead, no spark's, oh no the welder is broken. Go to the Electric panel to turn off the power, and realize what a dummy I am. Have to admit, the welder did work better with the power turned on.
🤚
Once forgot to turn on the welder (was engine driven and i was welding in roof trusses 45ft up in a man basket )only did that mistake once haha
About making mistakes and forgetting things, that's why it was "prayers, pills, wallet, keys, phone, lunch..." before leaving the house. Also at a road intersection, counting 1,2,3 while looking each way, to make sure I wasn't just taking a perfunctory glance for traffic. Green light, stop sign, right of way, it doesn't matter...esp now with texting traffic. Student drivers should be taught that habit. 1,2,3..Left.....1,2,3, Right.. PS this is a great site and I subscribed.
Bob, as usual.. great video!!
Like you, I've been manipulating molten metals for 40 years... Always learning new things..
Absolutely love your videos!
I'm picky about my wire.. I don't like ones that don't do well..and I HATE some of the less expensive, high silica stuff that splatters!!!
He needs to use the wireless TESLA clamp. Just don't get in the arc path coming from the 8 foot Tesla coil column ;)
Lincoln must have been sweating that out....
Doubtful. Lincoln filler metal has probably been tested more than any other brand on the planet.
🤣🤣
@@simclardy1 true story. Where I work we have clients that ask us to lincoln wire only for super austenitic using 625 inconel as a filler. If we use any other brand they will reject the part regardless of what xray, PT or visual inspection says.
@@jaredhammonds8255 we just recently started using esab wire at my shop, and it seems to run smoother, and wet out a bit better than Lincoln wire
@@1012Mrjesse I loved the esab wire. It might have (it was) been fresher wire, but ran so smooth
great side by side of the Lincoln & harbor freight gasless fluxcore wire....I totally agree after looking at the more consistent puddle (Lincoln) and HF lil more spatter and (porosity). the choice is pretty clear Lincoln is the way to go
Yeah, the results are hard to argue. Can't go wrong with Lincoln wire.
Sorry ground clamp
can I weld without gas only with electric
Brandy Lyn Booe yes you can that is what the fluxcore wire does it eliminates need for shielding gas. Good luck!
Are the wires really the same if one is single pass and the other is multi pass? Whats the difference?
No ground clamp?? LOL, I try that all the time,as well!!!
Me too! Let me know when you have it work for you.
bubba nader You can see the ground clamp is hooked up to the table on the side.
+kj197734 yes, I found it and put it there.
Now, in 2021, there ought to be a blue-tooth wireless ground!
lincoln is better looking ...but for home use...non structural patches etc..both are adequate
Thank you bob. Only mig welder i have is a lil 110 Lincoln 100 weld pk. No gas options.
Thanks for the second video to my question in the first video and thanks for your efforts also. The second pass looked a lot better than the first pass for the harbor freight wire. Lincoln is the wire to go with. Maybe for the backyard guy, they could get by with the harbor freight wire but for commerical applications Lincoln wire should be the choice.
"For 40 years I've been trying to weld without a ground clamp and it never works out" HAHA! I tell you what if I wasn't old and used up id go to your school to learn more about welding lol
I Enjoy learning something from each of your videos. Thanks
For 1/3 the price $25 spool, I’ll keep using my Chinese wire. Until I start structural or x ray welding I’ll splurge for the Lincoln at $65 a spool.
Hasn’t failed me on any of my garage or customer projects yet. But then again I’m not doing high risk work. Just house welds and easy quick side jobs.
For a hobby or DIY welder like me, I agree! If it's clean and it holds, that's all that's going to matter for me! I leave the pretty stuff to the pros!
@@DJPhased
I feel the same way.
Consider the jobs you are supporting. Until harbor freight become accountable i will avoid them. I would hate to save money at the expense of the worker in the factory making the wire
You must live In China and pick up local because a 10lb spool of Chicago Electric .030 fluxcore is only about $10 less than a 10lb spool of nr-211 mp 0.30 . Chicago Electric at $70 10lb spool vs $80 10lb spool of Mr 211 mp. . There isn't a huge price gap between the wires. It's kinda like some of the recent power tools hobofreight sells they are only $15-20 less than the name branded tools so you're not really saving anything buying China-electric.
@@yerwrng where do you live I know where I am a 10 lb spool of harbor freight wire is 44.99 Lincoln sells at 179.99 i buy the lincoln for my work machine because it gets x-rayed and I don't want any issues for my home projects ill buy the cheapest i can get
Hello Bob, Always interesting to compare real world situations. The price factor needs to be considered also. If HF is half the price of lincoln and I am doing non structural that would make quite a difference. I also seemed to hear less pulsing from the HF wire. Is that good or bad? Personally lately for home wire I am using Blue Fox, I believe, anyway I get it off Amazon and pay less than half what the local welding shop wants for their non major brand. Especially in the 5043 Aluminum wire the price difference is huge. They don't even carry the flux core stainless wire so although it is pricey I get Blue Fox brand also in that. that would be an interesting topic for you to do. I don't use it much as most of my stainless I do with stick but I am going to try some in my next project. We will see how it does. My other question would be where is the wire manufactured? Is all of it out of only a very few plants or do they each actually spec and or produce their own version? Good video once again. You have an easy to watch presentation style. Take care. Doug
Thanks Bob, Another great video, Here in Australia, our discount hardware store is called Bunnings. I get the idea, cheap chinese merchandise and some "Name" brands. The Chinese stuff is sometimes ok, but not always. At work I do a lot of Mig welding with solid wire and I find the Lincoln a better product overall than the cheaper stuff our boss sometimes buys.
You blinked more on side one and I saw hour hand move ten times vs eight times on HF.
A instructor who prob knows something about gluing metal together gave his opinion. If someone knows more then why watch his videos make ur own.
Thank you sir for sharing your time and experience. I can make metal stick together but that does not make me a welder, so watching someone who knows the black magic of welding is great.
We love you on RUclips you made so much difference for anyone going into Welding.
Thanks for doing it again. It did seem to show a bit more penetration with the Miller wire but as you mentioned at the end they all are not perfect all the way through the spools. Prep is more likely the better insurance with both wires knowing the amps and feed rate to use.
great videos and comparison between the two. I've run as many different brands of flux core wire as I could get my hands on in the past couple years and I am OK for a hobbyist. aside from my first roll ever, I've never had a 2lb spool unroll other than the Lincoln. had it happen 3 times, 3 separate spools, damnedest thing! the little bit I could get to run through did seem like nice consistent feed.
Outstanding humble teacher you make it all look good bob
Bob makes Mondays much better :)
I have tried this and the Lincoln wire won every time... I have a cheap HF flux core machine and even on it the Lincoln wire makes a lot of difference...
thanks for the info it is helpful I am looking onto learning this for at home and forgive my ignorance but can I use lincoln wire in a HF unit?
How about doing a video comparing duel shield wire in Lincoln and ESAB?? I have run both extensively over the years but have never done penetration tests and I'm very curious to see what your results and preference would be!?
Just bought a 125 mig welder from HF. The included mig wire that came with the machine ran and looked better than the extra spool of Vulcan I bought for my project the Vulcan pulsed and the stock wire didn't. I am going to get the Lincoln wire for my go to filler wire.
My first time welding I spend 15 minutes trying to figure out why I couldn't get the weld started. Didn't have the ground on lol
I'm not sure what to make of this... I do appreciate the attempt to make a fair test, but as soon as I saw your setup for the HFT wire (around 5:35) I noticed that your bottom plate was bowed and you had a gap in the middle, the same area as you got porosity (I'm not sure that I can make a great argument that they are related but it was there). It also looked like your travel/stickout wasn't as consistent on the first pass with the HFT wire (might have been inconsistencies with the wire) but you couldn't confirm because unlike the passes with the lincoln you didn't have the welder display up in the video (you could see when you were making the lincoln passes how much the V and A were varying). The plates also didn't look to be ground back as nicely as the first set, but that could have just been camera angle and it really shouldn't matter for flux core.
That said, I have used both wires, and I haven't seen a difference in the two (I don't recall any porosity issues with either, even though I tend to only use flux core on nastier jobs, like welding stake pockets onto a trailer outside), but I will admit that if I had both sitting there and the project is something that I really cared about I'd reach for the lincoln first and if it was something that just needed to be stuck together I'd reach for the HFT... though I don't really feel like that bias is justified from the results that I have had.
Just purchased a HF Titanium 125 flux core machine for outdoor welding on lighter materials. Went to Tractor Supply and found their store brand Jobsmart wire for $9.99 a 2lb spool. Seems like pretty good stuff and definitely a bargain.
I tend to run gas with my cheap FC wire because of the risk of porosity. Up here Princess Auto is our Harbor freight and the difference in price is 5 fold so on large projects the cheap wire gets the nod, even with the gas it's about a $12 a pound saving. Great comparison Thanks.
You are more than fair, kind Sir!
I think a more important factor between these 2 brands is the storage and time on shelf in the store or warehouse. HF stores are all air conditioned and have lower humidity than ambient. Home Depot and Lowe's both have open doors many days of the year and as a result, the humidity is very high. Add to that, they bring in tons of wet lumber daily on one side and have a garden department (with hourly waterings) on the other side. Everyone nows that humidity is bad for flux core wires. Your average HF store probably sells more wire in a week than Home Depot and Lowe's do in 6 months, so the wire at HF is newer and kept in conditioned space compared to HD.
Harbor freight is cheaper that’s why everyone goes there
As a guy who never welded but wants to learn, which welder should I buy not going into a professional welder. There are so many to choose from. Would a stick welder be more to my level or would a mig be better suited for me. I do not have a 220 line so I would want to use a regular 110 outlet. I need your recommendation. Thank you.
Thank you for taking time to do this review. I would have been shocked if the results came out any different.
I'll try the pre-heating trick w a propane torch, and should definitely get the no splatter!
with this great video, I guess it kind of justify for the average DIY at small projects to save with harbor freight wires , is not much difference overall... if doing welding for daily or professional jobs , then you want the best for the jobs ... thanks this video helps on the pocket!
thanks for sharing with us so huge amount of knowledge.
THIS GUY IS A PRO PERIOD ! HE KNOWS HIS CRAFT !
I am very new to welding after lessons 15 years ago. ( just got a HF 115v welder and using the Vulcan .030 wire ) I have seen a few videos on YT and it seems the Vulcan HF wire needs to run a little faster than the others tested. ( one test had 2 brands that needed to run faster ) If you sped up the HF wire, would it have made a difference ? Thanks for the testing.
I use a HF welder with Lincoln wire. Best of both worlds
Thank you Bob. Another great video. Alway appreciated.
Have you used the INE flux core wire ? It seems to get good reviews.
Good video, I've used Lincoln and Miller wire welders and they are the standard because theyv'e been around a long time but it looks like harbor freight makes a decent little hobby or small project welder
Great video. Very well done, and well thought out. Both wires did not run a great first pass, both ran a better second pass, but even with the cold fist pass, that Lincoln wire did a better one. But I dont see either one being a bad wire, but you can see that one is a better oen.
Your a great teacher. I want to learn how to weld to assist in some my mechanical jobs. I use an oxygen/acetylene torch to braze copper and I became good at it after a while. I think I could pick up on it pretty quickly.
If you gas torch weld you can definitely weld with wire. Stick takes a lot of practice and tig does too but you already have an idea of the technique if you can do that.
Great comparison. You now have me curious, I plan to buy some harbor freight wire and give it a try! Great instructional video as well.
I feel better that I am not the only one out there that gets all in position anticipating the first spot weld only to find out I left the ground clamp off!! Good work.
I’m not a professional welder and have welded light gauge things around my farm for many years and the Lincoln wire is the best I’ve used in my HF 125 amp welder. I only use the .030 Lincoln wire. I run things on a tight budget or I would have a Lincoln or Miller welder.
Thanks Bob I've learned a lot off your videos.
I wish I could weld as good as your worst weld. always enjoy you videos thanks.
I have a Harbor Freight welder with just a Hi and Low setting. Which is better?. Say 3/16 or 1/4 inch mild angle iron. Thank for any help.
I am partial to Lincoln but it was said for infrequent use go HF, if it's for infrequent use you don't use that much so how do you enter cost as a factor? Just saying. Fantastic video again Bob as always yore never a disappointment.👍👍
Great welding! Lincoln lasts a'lot longer,my buddy's H.F only lasted through 2 small spools of wire.My Lincolns from the 80's.
MP211 is an e70t-11 (mp = multi pass) FC wire, and the HF wire is like most common FC wire, e70t-gs. e70t-11 is a standard that manufacturers conform to, and the e70t-gs appears to be not a strict specification, which isn't rated for multi pass.
The lincoln FC wire (FCAW-S) is NR-211-MP (not MP211)
you should do harbor freight 6013 vs lincoln 6013. 1/8"
Just started watching your videos there very informative thank you for making them
Great job, i didn't need a test .. but thanks for doping such a Even go. i go Lincoln
I think a comparasion of Hobart wire vs. Lincoln wire would be real good one.
Hi Bob, I expected if there was a winner it would be the Lincoln brand. Back in the day there was no HF. Lincoln has made fine products for years. Do you know where those wires are manufactured? Could there be a quality controll issue? Thanks, Donald
I'm sure there could be quality control issues at times. I do not know where they are manufactured.
+Bob Moffatt from what I've read harbor freight wire is made by INE. INE wire is made in Italy. They've been making welding supplies since the 40s. Long before HF. I've used the Lincoln wire and the HF/INE I've found that they both seem to have a place. The HF wire seems to work well for thin metals like tubular steel. But that's just my opinion. I'm far from a pro welder.
Donald in New Mexico Likely HF is out of China but then again Lincoln could be out of China or Poland or the U.S. or Canada or about 45 other countries because they have bought up companies across the globe. It all comes down to quality control and I would suspect HF buys manufacturing overruns from dozens of companies and has them packaged under their logo. If you buy 60 or 70 thousand pounds A year for your manufacturing plant robot's you can get A consistent wire built to your specifications but if you buy 25 or 50 pounds A year your going to get whatever comes off the end of A production run.
We've found that there are two different suppliers of Harbor Freight wire. One is from Italy and one is from China. The one from this video was the China variation. You can see which you are getting by looking on the packaging to see where it is manufactured.
Done the same test, the Italian wire is the one to look for. Much more consistent, smoother welds, less spatter.
Harbor Freight wire is fine if you run out on the weekend and it's 8:30 p.m. and you need to get your project done! But if you are charging for your work, get the best wire the client can afford. Don't skimp out when your name and reputation are on the line.
Run out of wire on a weekend project? Sure, use the HF. The difference in cost per foot of weld, to me, doesn't justify using it regularly though. I'm bad enough at welding on my own. I don't need to add cheap wire to blame my crappy welds on. Ha!
blmeflmm66 on a weekend harbor freight carries welding wire. So does Lowe's and home Depot carry the Lincoln wire.
@@Gears.and.Gadgets But the big box stores could be more than 100 miles away.
Great comparison! Would love to know your opinions on the HF Vulcan vs. Lincoln Excalibur 7018.
were i live they sell the Lincoln wire at the home depot...The is a home depot every couple of miles as a posed to harbor freight every 30 miles...by the time you add your time and fuel it`s cheaper to just use the Lincoln wire...And better...thanks for the in depth video showing the results...
I agree. The Lincoln looks a little deeper and uniform